right now on "andrea mitchell reports," president biden is closed off with covid, but he is still as defiant as he has been as political pressure increases from his fellow

democrats with new defections in just the last hour. further fuelling speculation that his re-election campaign could be coming to a close. this hour, new reporting, including what's being discussed among biden's inner circle, along with his family, as the president recovers in his delaware home. one speaker, two speeches. former president trump begins his rnc speech by recounting the attempt on his life and touting unity. >> i am running to be president for all of america, not half of america, because there is no victory in winning for half of america. >> not so much in the second half of the speech. he pivoted into trump rally mode, powering the longest speech in convention history. >> you took the ten worst presidents in the history of the united states, think of it, the ten worst, added them up, they will not have done the damage

that biden has done. ♪♪ a microsoft outage forces businesses, including airlines across the world, to face the blue screen of death. we will have the latest on the efforts to fix the big tech fail. good to be with you. i'm katy tur in milwaukee. we will dissect donald trump's record breakingly long acceptance speech, from his emotional retelling of surviving the assassination attempt to returning to his standard stump speech, degrading immigration, along with other issues. let us begin with president biden's campaign in purgatory and calls for him to drop off the ticket that are growing louder. sources tell nbc news the biden family, closest of his inner circle, and likely the only ones who could convince him to make

the final decision, are now discussing a carefully calculated plan to exit the race. one person close to the president tells nbc news, we are close to the end. another says, they are finally realizing it's a when, not an if. "the new york times" also reports, reality is setting in he might not win in november, citing several people close to the president. the list of democrats calling for biden to step aside now includes two more sitting senators. john tester, in a tight re-election fight, and moments ago, new mexico's senator martin heinrich joined the ranks. and illinois' garcia splitting with the political arm that endorsed joe biden this morning.

despite this, the campaign is aggressively pushing back saying the party has, quote, no plan for an alternative nominee. >> we know we have slipped from the debate. we know that the president has to prove to the american people exactly what he believes, that he is in this to win this, he can do this and he is our nominee and he is going to be our president for a second term. >> we begin with carol lee, yamiche alcindor, eugene daniels, and former senator, doug jones. carol, you are behind some of the groundbreaking reporting from nbc news. talk to us about what is being discussed within the biden inner circle. >> there's a couple of things. when we talk about family discussions that have been happening about what an exit, if the president were to decide that that's what he wanted to

do, to suspend his campaign, what that would look like. what we are told is that the discussions are focused on that it -- they want it to be an exit that would be -- would honor the decades the president spent serving public office. it's something that they would want to happen on his own time frame, on his own time line and something had a would be carefully crafted. it's not something that would be thrown together. those kinds of discussions are happening. i guess you could think of it in this way. they are having those discussions while the president is figuring out whether or not this is something he wants to do. there could be a plan for him if he does ultimately make that decision. what we are told from a number of sources is that things have shifted. three weeks after the debate, when you talk to some of the same sources we have been talking to for three weeks, there's just a different tone to what they say. as you said, it's when, not if,

at this point. they are trying to figure out exactly what that looks like going forward and at the same time, as you heard, the campaign and people around the president publicly are really pushing back and saying, he is in this and not going anywhere. >> how quickly could this come together? >> that really depends. it could come together -- we talked to sources who are close to the president who said this is something that could happen in days. it's all a matter of whether this is a decision that the president ultimately makes. if he does, there are a lot of preparations happening and planning happening to make that something -- to have it ready to go for him if and when he gets there. any time that he feels like he is ready to do that, as you mentioned, he is at his house in delaware. he is recovering from covid. he is having certainly a lot of time to think about this and talk with various people about it. one of the things we know from

our reporting is that the people who are closest to him are still putting out phone calls to allies, people they trust and taking the temperature. what do you think? what's the atmosphere? what's the money like? how are donors feeling? they are poking and prodding and asking those questions. it could happen at any time. it also could not happen ever. it also could happen later than in the coming days. >> all right. as this is being discussed, a lot of the conversation is now turning to the vice president, kamala harris. yamiche, what can you tell us about her movements in the last few days and what she plans on doing? >> vice president kamala harris is really delicately navigating what sources tell me is an awkward position for her. she's having to be ready to be the top of the ticket at any moment, while also wanting to publicly and privately defend president biden. she's making calls to allies, trying to make sure that they know that the president wants to

stay in this race. she is someone who is now taking on more events, because the president has been sidelined with his covid diagnosis. she's going to be holding a fund-raiser in massachusetts. she's heading to wisconsin. the campaign put that out a few moments ago that she will head to wisconsin. she's stepping in here and trying to bolster the ticket no matter where she ends up. people have told me she's not wanting to be involved in any planning when it comes to whether or not she could be the top of the ticket. her allies are not waiting. there are a number of people who tell me people close to her say that they are informally gathering and mapping out what a campaign apparatus for her would look like. there's a lot of concern that she doesn't have an organization set up. they are talking about the staff they might here, who they might fire on the biden campaign. they are talking about the path that she might have to victory and how that might look different from president biden. looking at georgia and north carolina and african american voters and thinking whether

that's where she should focus instead of wisconsin. i was told by one source last night, there's this idea that her allies have been doing polling and quietly doing research on where she polls. i'm told they were looking at her role as one of the most prominent voices in the administration on the issue of reproductive rights and how that resonates with women voters. they say the polling says she does better among young voters while president biden has struggled with them. there's a lot going on behind the scenes for her allies. the vice president is not involved in that. she is trying to stay away from that. there are people who want to see her at the top of the ticket and are readying to make the argument she should not be passed over because she's vice president but also because she's an african american woman who speaks for the democrats. >> talk about readying for kamala harris. eugene, they are reporting the trump campaign is readying themselves for a potential kamala harris situation at the top of the ticket. >> yeah.

being here in milwaukee, trying to get out -- i'm in the airport with canceled flights. what you hear from republicans is this one concern that it might be kamala harris or anybody. they have been preparing for years to run against joe biden. that's the person that they are ready for. there has been extensive reporting about their giddiness about going against joe biden, especially after that june 27th debate. i talked to governor chris sununu, not a fan or friend of the trump folks, but even just a republican looking at vice president kamala harris and saying her entrance into the race at the top of the ticket would completely change the dynamics, just like yamiche is talking about. does the math look different? the electorate might look different. young voters being more interested, you have a democratic party that's been not excited about their nominee for a long time. maybe they are excited again. these are the things that the

trump campaign and republicans are looking at, thinking about and more importantly trying to ready themselves for. i will say in talking to delegates on the floor throughout the week, as the chips started to fall around president biden and it seemed more clear he was possibly moving toward make the decision to drop out of the race, people were not happy. even the delegates were concerned. they were talking about joe biden a lot more than even their own nominee as he was coming up. the concern amongst republicans is that this could change things and more importantly for independents who said they don't want a trump/biden rematch. give them someone else and maybe that makes them more excited to vote against donald trump. >> the anticipation of that certainly. senator, i know you are not calling for joe biden to step aside. correct me if i'm wrong on that. if there were a deadline for joe

biden and the party to make its final decision, to stop having this conversation either because he stays in the race or because he decides to get out of it, what is that deadline? >> i don't know exactly what the deadline would be. i know that there were a lot of things that have happened since the debate, including a week full of nato leaders in which president biden showed the world that he can be a leader, is a leader and can be a future leader for america and for the coalition that's fighting vladimir putin, unlike what we saw at the republican national convention, which was seemed to be a putin love fest over the last few days. i also know that the republican contingent was not a time to make any kind of firm announcements. this was something now that that is over and the president is kind of isolated away, i think he is having that -- you hear these conversations. by the way, i don't think anything we just heard from your

colleagues here is really -- those are logical things going on with the president and his family and discussions and alternatives that i believe were probably taking place weeks -- several weeks ago, two or three weeks ago, not just in the last few days. preparations -- kamala harris has been prepared to be at the top of the ticket. she has been prepared to be president since the day she was selected by joe biden as his running mate. it would be irresponsible for people not to do the kind of things given the atmosphere that we have now. but i do think you will see something relatively soon. as they say on the game shows, final answer. i think we will be there. as i said all along, whatever that final answer is going to be, it's going to be one i trust joe biden's judgment and will be in the best interest of the country. >> doug jones, thank you very much. eugene, yamiche, carol, i appreciate it. in 90 seconds, we will break

down the speech last night from the former president and what we learned this week from the rnc here in milwaukee. what kind of campaign they are waging and what kind of administration donald trump were have if he were to win again. you are watching msnbc. hed, lau. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000 to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. results and experiences may vary. that grimy film on your teeth? dr. g? ♪♪ it's actually the buildup of plaque bacteria which can cause cavities. most toothpastes quit working in minutes. but crest pro-health's antibacterial fluoride protects all day. so it stops cavities before they start...

crest. last night, donald trump did the longest presidential speech.

he took his name in flashing lights and told the audience what it was like on saturday when a gunman nearly took his life. >> i heard a loud whizzing sound and felt something hit me really, really hard. if i had not moved my head at that very last instant, the assassin's bullet would have perfectly hit its mark. i stand before you in this arena only by the great of almighty god. >> his wife and daughter, the first time they have been seen with him in public in quite a while. though the campaign promised a different donald trump after saturday's assassination attempt, the content of the speech was very much the same donald trump. painting a nation in decline, pushing false claims about the 2020 election, and promising a massive -- the massive and largest deportation of immigrants.

>> the democrat party should immediately stop weaponizing the justice system and labeling their political opponent as an enemy of democracy. we had that horrible, horrible result that we will manufacture let happen again, the election result. by the way, you know who is taking the jobs, the jobs that are created? 107% of those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. you know who is being hurt the most by millions of people pouring into our country? the black population and the hispanic population. >> joining me is lani chen, a director of domestic policy studies at stanford, and contributor and columnist charlie sykes joining me here. outside today, which is nice. let me ask you, last night donald trump -- he was promising unity. there was talk about unity at the top of the speech. the content of the speech was

not a unifying message. it was a divisive message and one that democrats will find, frankly, scary, especially when he is talking about immigration. >> what we learned last night was that donald trump is still donald trump. all of the spin about how it would be a softer, gentler donald trump -- this is not the man who will change who he is. what you had was that weird speech where it was compelling, the first 15, 20 minutes he is telling the story. then you had the rally ramble hitting all of the greatest hits of donald trump, including as you highlighted, this proposal that would result in the forcible mass deportation of maybe 10 million people. it's hard to have a message, a kinder, gentler, unified message when you have that message. >> i will tear families apart. there are a lot of mixed status households in the country. some of the people in the household are american citizens

and some of them are not. even though they have been here quite a long time. can you articulate what the maga movement is for now? it used to be whatever donald trump had on the top of his mind. now it's a more defined idea of what maga-ism, if you will, stands for. >> yeah. the selection of j.d. vance as the vice presidential nominee cements this movement toward an economic and foreign policy that is more populist. certainly in some ways more pro-nationalist. a movement away from traditional conservative orthodoxy on tax cuts. embrace of some labor unions. i won't say all, but some labor unions. you saw that earlier in the week when i was in milwaukee as well hearing from the president of the teamsters. you hear it a lot when it comes

to trade and china. a more aggressive stance toward china. the use of tariffs. i think these elements are the core of this maga agenda, if you will, going forward. it is definitely a transition away from traditional supply side trickle down economics, politically better for some. we will see how far this will go and what the tolerance will be if president trump is elected again, what the tolerance will be amongst republicans in congress for these policy changes. >> i question that. at the same time, i have not seen much of a defense about reaganism from republican lawmakers when donald trump is around. they usually bend toward his will, because he has so much more support within the republican party. don't go against donald trump because you will lose a primary. >> that's the theme of this convention. this convention is an exclamation point on what we have been talking about, the complete trumpification of the

republican party. anybody who thinks elected republicans will serve as a bulwark against trumpism, they will not. they are all in. they all basically bow down. by the way, we should mention besides the deportation, this convention marks a real sharp turn away from nearly a century of internationalism in the republican party. this is a rejection of the internationalist wing. j.d. is one of the most outspoken isolationists. they are raising questions, will american lead? is america -- does america first mean we will stand by our european allies? what's our relationship with nato? this is a clear abandonment of ukraine. it was striking that the russian foreign minister expressed how pleased the kremlin was with j.d. vance. it's hard to overstate how

dramatic a shift this is. >> i wonder when we will stop calling it the party of ronald reagan. it's the party of donald trump. they are trying to break the blue wall once again. they lost it in 2020 back to the democrats. they believe they have a good shot at it this year. this is milwaukee, it's michigan, it's pennsylvania. there was a lot of machismo energy. it's hulk hogan revealing a trump/vance t-shirt underneath. there was kid rock performing. it was aggressive. it was in your face. it was directed, it seems, to white working class men. is this what's going to break the blue wall again? >> this is the strategy is you go for the working class. there's been erosion not just among white working class men but among african american and hispanic working class men. they are doubling down. this was not an attempt to reach out to the suburban women. this is a challenge for

democrats, which have been losing some support. the key i think to the blue wall is not going to be the trump surge. it's whether the democrats can respond. are the democrats going to be able to generate the kind of excitement and enthusiasm that you clearly see the republicans have? we are at this moment where republicans are optimistic. they are ecstatic, confident. democrats are divide and depressioned. democrats are going to have to get their act together soon to counter that. it's a powerful narrative. >> thank you very much. coming up, the latest on the global chaos sparked by a massive microsoft outage. you are watching msnbc. how you feel can be affected by the bacteria in your gut? try new align yogurt coated probiotic fruit bites.

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are one of the millions of people across the world who was paralyzed by today's global tech outage. that's affected everything from airlines to banks to hospitals, police forces. the glitch is now resolved. the ripple affects are still being felt. joining me now with the latest is brian chung. what happened? how quickly will things get back to normal? will i make my flight? >> i'm not sure about that. things look rough in milwaukee. the situation with the issue that led to this massive outage globally, it was resolved, according to the company where this issue began, which is called crowdstrike. it's a cybersecurity vendor that tried to push an update to windows computers earlier this morning and that led to the blue screens that you saw in the video just now. basically, people were unable to log in. that impacted basically any company that uses crowdstrike to try to foolproof their systems. that includes airlines that are

having issues in tickets. that includes hospitals where nurses were unable to access patient records. this is a really serious issue that impacted basically any company that had business ties to crowdstrike and used that to foolproof their systems. even though that fix was allegedly fixed by the company, according to what they are saying. whether or not the companies that use crowdstrike can get things back again depends on their success rate in restarting those computers. we have seen some success with some airlines domestically. maybe you can catch your flight later on. in some cases, i'm hearing that computers need to be rebooted on an individual basis to get thing backs up and running. you can imagine with large companies how long that might take. >> gosh, yeah. i'm trying to log on to the airline app as we speak. i cannot log on to it yet. not a good sign for a flight later today.

we have breaking news that i want to get to regarding president biden. this is a statement just out coming over the reuters wires. biden looks forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week. he says donald trump's dark vision is not who we are as americans. it's not much of a statement, but it's notable because there are increasing calls for him to drop out of the race, including a number of lawmakers today, five congressmen lawmakers and one senator at least. we will be back in just a moment. don't go anywhere. trains. [whoosh] ♪ trains that use the power of dell ai and intel. clearing the way, [rumble] [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. what does a robot know about love?

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we just learned today that secret service dret erdirector y cheatle will testify this coming monday with the agency under scrutiny for the security breakdown at the trump rally in butler, pennsylvania. the agency says cheatle has no intention of stepping down, despite calls for her to do so. in pennsylvania last hour, the man who was fatally shot shielding his wife and daughter at the rally is being laid to rest today. donald trump paid tribute to firefighter corey comperatore with his uniform on stage at the rnc. the former president kissing the helmet. nbc news correspondent shaq brewster joins us from the funeral in cabot, pennsylvania. what's it like there? >> reporter: you know, for days

we have been watching this community hold vigils, memorials for corey. all culminating in what we see today, which is a private funeral for his family. i believe it's wrapping up behind me. let me take a look. i will let you see what we are seeing. it looks like mourners are exiting the church and waiting for the casket to come out of the church and into what we know will be an extensive processional. along the route, there are members of the community out with their families, with their kids, waving american flags, trying to show their support with this family. i have seen hundreds of fire trucks that we know are going to be connected to the processional going through the community, likely to go past his house and the fire station where he volunteered. corey is being remembered as an american hero. that's a word i continue to hear. someone who was a loving father of two, a husband. i mentioned, a volunteer firefighter. a veteran. a big supporter of former president trump.

someone who you could always expect to see inside of the church every single sunday morning. i talked to a member of the congregation who said she didn't know him well but knew where he sat every week. she said -- i asked her, what has been the biggest part, the hardest part of dealing with the tension from his death? >> there's a lot of questions that obviously are going to need answered from the events that happened. people that are saying that the trauma and the realness of this tragic event isn't real, is probably the hardest part. it's very real. it's happening to a family in our community, in our church. >> reporter: you are seeing the realness on display throughout this community. folks just coming out to say, we want to support. we know the funeral is private, but we want to let the family know we are with them.

she mentioned questions that are out there. you mentioned the secret service director will appear before congress on monday. we know that this will be part of one of many investigations that are now underway between what the fbi is doing, the review that president biden has called, between investigations from the inspector general. there are a lot of entities looking into this shooting that we know left one person dead and to people still in the hospital recovering. >> shaq brewster, thank you very much. i will speak with the ceo of dow jones, owner of "the wall street journal," on the next steps at american journalist evan gershkovich was found guilty today in a russian court. you are watching msnbc. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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breaking news. president biden says he will be back on the campaign trail next week, despite our reporting that his closest family members are preparing a campaign exit plan should he decide to use it. allie raffa is in delaware where the president is isolating with mild covid symptoms. give us more from the statement. >> reporter: we are continuing to see this split screen between what the biden team is portraying publicly and what we know is being discussed privately among biden family members and biden advisors as we know that the campaign is acknowledging that there's no

real clear path to victory for president biden at the top of the democratic ticket. we are hearing from the president directly for the first time since he self-isolated and is recovering from his covid diagnosis. he released a statement reacting to former president trump's speech at the republican national convention last night. in part of the statement he says, i look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of donald trump's project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that i have for america, one where we save or democracy, protect our rights and freedoms and create opportunity for everyone. the president, at least publicly, his campaign all coming out and trying to quiet the growing calls from democratic lawmakers for him to step aside. they are insisting there are no conversations taking place about any backup option that does not

include him at the top of the ticket. we know from sources familiar with the conversations that are happening privately among biden's circle is that the president is more accepting of this decision, that he will inevitably make, whether to step aside or not to, and we know that he is examining the weight that would have on his legacy and the democratic party as a whole. >> we just got more news. a congressman of ohio has called on president biden to step aside as well. allie, thank you very much. we will await reaction from the white house on the defections we have seen today. a russian court found evan gershkovich guilty of espionage, sentencing him to 16 years in maximum security prison. the 32-year-old, seen here in court today, was arrested in march of 2023 while on a

reporting trip. russian authorities claimed without any evidence that he was gathering secret information for the united states. gershkovich denies any wrongdoing. the state department maintained he was wrongfully detained, calling for his immediate release. joining me now is the publisher of "the wall street journal" and ceo of dow jones. i wish you were here to talk about better news. >> yes. >> what's your reaction to this conviction? >> first of all, we are disgusted with this verdict. it's outrageous. it's based on false charges. it's based on a sham trial. even the proceedings of the verdict, it all got sped up. this is not a real trial as we would recognize it in the western world whatsoever. on the other hand, we were expecting a conviction because that's what happens in espionage trials. >> have you been able to speak to him? >> no. we have not been able to speak

to him directly. he has two russian lawyers we have retained for him. they are under strict orders to not speak about the case or else they would get in trouble with the russian authorities. that is very difficult to extract real information related to the trial, related to evan. >> donald trump said if he gets elected, evan would be released on day one. do you think that right now he is being used by vladimir putin as a political pawn? >> i don't want to speculate about how it might or might not relate to a u.s. political situation. what i know is that a lot of people around the world, a lot of nations around the world are working very hard to secure his release, as his employer, his colleague, we just want him out as soon as possible. we appreciate any bipartisan support. as to the russians, it's very

clear that they are treating this as a political game, a geopolitical game for their own purposes. this is the nature of autocratic regimes. they do what they want to serve their own narrative. vladimir putin and his regime have showed that again and again and again in this case as well. >> it's july of 2024. he was arrested in march of 2023. he has been in prison more than a year in russia. he is going to a maximum security prison. do you know where he might be headed? >> we don't have specific information on that. i don't want to speculate. obviously, that does not sound like a good place to go. previous two places he has been in were appalling as well. you saw that his head was shaved. made for purpose for the russian prison system. >> to look more like a criminal. >> absolutely.

sitting in a glass cage with a padlock and a shaved head. those are visual cues that serve the narrative for their own people and around the world while at the same time, i do believe, ultimately this is a very cynical way to try and extract something from -- that the russians want. >> when we have seen him in the past, his head was not shaved. he was in his clothes. he was smiling. looking defiant. confident. today, the images are not as uplifting. what do you know about his mental condition while he has been waiting? >> these are snapshots. what we know is he is resilient. with one hour of exercise he would get every 24 hours, i think he has been able to maintain his health somewhat. we get occasional snapshots. we cannot be sure about his true well-being.

>> it's hard. i know it has to be hard for him. it's absolutely horrible for his colleagues, including you guys at "the wall street journal." >> absolutely. his parents are inspiring in their resilience. so is evan. >> thank you very much for joining us. i appreciate it. hopefully, next time with happier news to report. >> thank you for your support. coming up, we will look ahead to another critical weekend for two presidential campaigns going in opposite directions. you are watching msnbc. even with worsening heart failure. so when i had carpal tunnel syndrome, lower back pain, and shortness of breath, i thought that's what getting older felt like. thank goodness... i called my cardiologist. i have attr-cm, a rare but serious disease... ...and getting diagnosed early... made a difference. if you have any of these warning signs, don't wait, ask your cardiologist about attr-cm today.

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the split scleen from the biden campaign is undeniable. the president remains defiant that he remains in the race. he'll be back on the campaign trail next week versus the growing list of democrats who are calling on him to step aside. nbc news is reporting that a person close to the president is saying that they are close to the end, but who knows. joining me now nbc news senior

political editor mark murray, and john nichols, national affairs correspondent for the nation, my partner in crime for this past week here in milwaukee. mark, just give us a broad overview of how the numbers look, especially in those battleground states. >> right now we have a situation where nationally and in the battleground states, donald trump leads within the margin of error, and honestly, the race hasn't looked all that different post-debate than it was before the debate. now, there was a new national cbs poll that came in that showed donald trump opening up even kind of little bit of a larger lead, still within the margin of error, after the assassination attempt on saturday. we're going to need to see what the polling looks like, katy. certainly in other surveys that were taken after last saturday's events, but i think right now with all the chaos that's surrounding the democratic party and the democratic ticket right now, donald trump has a lead, but it still is a very

competitive race right now. >> it's a competitive race, it appears, from the numbers, but the democrats keep saying that they have a winning message. the country is doing so well. it's such a popular platform they have, all of their policies are broadly popular, but they are not winning. they're within the margin of error or they're losing. if they have such a popular message, what's the problem? >> i think there's a lot of problems. one of the things it's very hard to deliver your popular message if all you're talking about is whether your candidate is going to stay or go. that's fundamental. >> this was before the debate happened, this conversation about -- a popular message was not resonating with the public because the polls have never shown him to be leading. >> and it goes to the heart of the matter. joe biden, if he wanted to run for re-election this year, needed to go out early. he needed to go out late last year and go into full campaign mode. you needed him to be there physically, and that didn't really happen.

through the whole spring, he was president, right? and he was focused on that, and they took this way too casuall. they went into the debate assuming that they were going to knock donald trump out of the race, and you saw what happened. >> i read a fascinating piece in "the new york times" by david brooks, and he says if the democrats want to beat maga, it's not enough to say orange man bad talking endlessly about january 6th does no good. if democrats hope to win the near future, they have to take the maga world view seriously and respectfully make the case, especially to working class voters for something better. and he also argues that what maga is offering now, it's not just donald trump. it's become an actual policy, a defined set of policies. it's offering people security. it promises to secure borders and secure neighborhoods. protection from globalization. the destruction of modern

capitalism, you know, making sure your kids aren't indocket indoctrinated in schools, et cetera. how do the democrats go after that? what's the strategy? >> they don't listen entirely to david, he put out a few things there, when you've got a campaign that's got quite a bit of billionaire funding, i'm not sure they're going to destroy modern capitalism. they need to listen to bernie sanders. they need to listen to people who go out and do campaigning. bernie sanders was in wisconsin -- >> bernie sanders is telling joe biden to stay in the race. >> he's also telling him to do something else, this is a big deal. bernie sanders was in wisconsin two weeks ago, went through secondary cities, drew hundreds and hundreds of people in pouring rain, very successful events, and so what was he talking about? a core deep economic message that went way beyond just what has been done and what we tried to do, but what really needs to do. you saw joe biden attempt to do that in detroit a week ago friday where he actually gave a pretty good speech. it got lost into the weekend, but the fact of the matter is

whether biden stays in this race or somebody else comes in, their message has to be the economic populist message that democrats always deliver at the end of the race. they have to start doing it early. they always come too late. >> zoe lofgren has said biden needs to go. >> it's a roller coaster. >> it feels like the list is opening up today. >> today is a major union in washington state, ufcw local, statewide, very powerful, very influential, they said it's time to stand down. internationals are still very much with joe biden, but when you start to see major locals that everybody in the labor movement knows saying you've got to rethink, mr. president, that's opening some doors here, and i do think we're at kind of a critical moment. >> mark, i think we've not about 30 seconds left. wrap it up for us. >> i think wrap it up is we're going to be seeing what president biden ends up doing. obviously has covid right now, put out that statement saying he

wants to hit the campaign trail next week. i think the next 48 hours are going to be really, really important, katy, and not only the decision that president biden's making but the rest of the democratic party, and that remains the big story coming out of the convention in milwaukee. >> mark murray, john nichols, thank you very much. that's going to do it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. i will be back on the air on monday, maybe even earlier, "chris jansing reports" starts right now. >> good day, i'm chris jansing, more committed than ever. that's how joe biden's campaign chair is characterizing the president's resolve as he fends off growing calls to leave the presidential race. have democrats run out of ways to force his hand? and while they continue a painful