welcome to the beat weekend, i'm ari melber. let's get to the headlines, lawrence he concludes with what should be the easy one, careful to discuss the seriousness of the attempted assassination of former president donald trump last weekend, we have heard from trump officials, i had several in the program this week. we call balls and strikes are in your, the fact is as a lyrical matter, the situation donald trump in last night should have been straightforward . a lot of sympathy and support in that room, a lot of interest around the nation, given a standard or average or typical speech would have been enough. but he did not do that, he gave a very unusual, historically long, meandering, winding speech, that i can type as

political matter, not just on the left or trump resistance, from a lot of different sources today, seeing reaction that has revived excitement, energy, even confidence among democrats, who still see this individual, now nominee donald trump, as eminently readable. that is part of where we start tonight. over 10 more congressional democrats, meanwhile, are calling on joe biden to step aside. the split screen on your screen is the story of the week, certainly as of last night, the story of the night, it may be the story for some time to come. as i mentioned, our coverage of donald trump, the furnace there, our coverage of joe biden's problems will also follow reality. the reality is it has not been a good week for him. big heavyweights, schumer, pelosi, hakeem jeffries, have three meetings and follow-up information about those meetings, basically all but called for joe biden to drop out or directly called for him to drop out. when they haven't

said exactly he should drop out, they basically said, if nothing changes, he will lose. reuters reporting members of the biting cabinet are also discussing this issue and whether he has winnable challenge ahead and thus should concede the ground a different candidate, which would be very, very historic no president has ever, no incumbent president dropped out of the race this late. biden advisers going so far to discuss the best timing or other details for announcement, meaning not just talking about whether to do this, getting plans ready over how it would work, even if it does not happen. reporting on similar conversations within the biden family. that is some of the reporting, leaking about what could happen. you want the official line, the president and his campaign reiterate that he is the nominee and staying in the race and formerly stain, this is news going the weekend, not only that, he plans to return to the campaign trail next week, as soon as it is safe for his

recovery from covid. this is the state of play, two stories about two very different nominees and a lot of straight talk about the fact that a, the democrats are worried biden is very readable if nothing changes. and b, conservatives, independents, nonpartisan experts that think donald trump blew what was supposed to be a straightforward opportunity last night, giving one of the longest beaches ever on record. late today, we got the ratings that show even in conservative outlets, conservative channels i should say, people watched the beginning and turned off before he finished the speech. if your giving the speech of the week or the year, you don't want people turning out. if you make them sit 80 minutes, they might. this is the world we are in right now. >> the steady drip drip of democrats going for joe biden to step aside continues. >> another democrat on the list of california congresswoman zoe lofgren .

>> chair of the biden/harris campaign, jen o'malley dillon. >> joe biden is more committed than ever to beat donald trump. day the president released a statement vowing to get back on the campaign trail next week. >> after what has been three of the most painful weeks i've ever seen in democratic politics, this is not a colossus. >> has anyone seen silence of the lambs? >> this is not the big bad wolf. >> the late great hannibal lector, he would love to have you for dinner. >> the excitement is palpable or is that soul shaking fear? >> not because democracy does not matter or they would not be simulating it. >> this is the first good thing that happened to democrats in the last three weeks. >> i have never been to a more fun convention or convention with better vibes. >> the truth was powerful and they had to lie about it. >> enough was enough! let trump mania run wild,

brother! let it rule again! >> reporter: during the speech, there were some folks dozing off, a few lawmakers snuck out early. >> he told 25 verified lies, 20 lies in 92 minutes, he is a changed man. >> not because the truth does not matter or they would not spend so much time lying about it. >> the trump campaign clucked so much about how we would see a softer, more reflective donald trump . >> crazy nancy pelosi -- >> he could not keep up the act. >> the last voice, longtime fox hosts, now at seen in chris wallace, trump could not keep up the act for one speed, again, one of the longest speeches in the history of political conventions, longest republican national convention speech ever. the time is right, trump was dribbling. politico, nonpartisan outlet says that he derailed his own

speech. cbs noted the obvious, it was meandering. the l.a. times calling the entire spectacle a dead. here's the thing about politics, last night was a political speech with the wind at donald trump's back. a lot of goodwill when he stepped out onto the stage. after that, it is still up to him and up to life and up to us. as long as we have a functioning democracy, up to the people to listen and decide. what happened over the course of his 90 minutes, despite it being one of the warmest, best, most positive honor ramps any politician could ask for, was donald trump unvarnished, unfiltered, unpolished by other pr techniques and political strategies that are used. i have told you before, i don't come on here every night and tell you what to think, i will assemble the evidence and show you things and you make up your mind.

i will update you with the fact that a lot of conservatives and independents looked at that and thought, this is what he came with? why was it so long? if you're so good at the pr and rhetoric part, why was it so's dale why so different from what they spent a week claiming was going to happen? a new and different trump bringing you unity, a time for the nation to come together. i will say again, in all fairness, there were passages end quote that were written that did try to do that, the did offer some sense of unity. he did not, for example, say joe biden's name relentlessly. but by that and of the speech, what so many analysts called a dud, disappointment, also showed the same old trump to what does america think of the same old trump? more voters picked the other candidate when they had a chance in '16, he wanted electoral college. many more the other voters in 2018 with the midterm elections to trump, many more voters picked the other guy, the current president in '20 one he

lost by over 300 electoral votes and was on the biden side. you are in the midterms of '22, was to be a red wave and it wasn't. today they see the trump again, the democratic party increasingly views as a weaker option, talking about, literally, historically beatable, running against the current president, who his own party thinks is one of the people who might not be able to beat this very beatable republican nominee. where do we go from here? we have two people that know their way around residential campaign politics. joe and jake. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. ♪♪ i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married.

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the next vice president of the united states, joe biden, i thank you. >> barack obama gets that though, like many of us in this room, like many of us in this hall, barack obama has worked his way up, he is the great american story. >> a different set of conventions, barack obama and joe biden talking about each other when they ran the first time together on the '08 ticket. were joined by people who knew the tickets well, joe trippi is a major economic strata missed and helped ron howard dean's big and dynamic essential campaign, jake worked on several presidential campaigns including obama/biden. welcome to both of you.

what a difference a day makes or a week makes or a month makes in politics. we are clearly living through the busy and tumultuous times. i want to start with where our introduction ended, the way i put it, you may add or disagree but i ask you to address the way i put it, there's a lot of evidence donald trump is a beatable candidate but the democrats are no longer convinced biden is the one that beat him. >> donald trump is extremely beatable, extremely vulnerable. this is not the donald trump of 2020 or 2016, this is a much more vulnerable candidate, this is the candidate most americans do not like, many cases overwhelmingly if you look at the clear politics average, the most favorable polling efforts to donald trump, he is 47%. that is terrible, considering the fact he has had, to be honest, the best month any residential candidate probably

ever had in terms of good fortune as to what is going on on the other side of the ticket. >> yeah, you put that concisely. joe trippi, we often hear about trump beating these expectations, whatever they come from and yet, it cuts both ways that chai put concisely, he was convicted in new york court and withstood it within the dynamics of this republican party at this point in time with him as a former president, lottie dodd. you can look at last week and last night's speech, shouldn't he be doing better? >> i think it is right, 2016 he got 46% of the vote, 2020 he got 36.7% of the vote, he is stuck around 46% of the vote. the fact of the matter is, the majority of the american people, something like 53% the last poll i looked at, including 53% independents, view donald trump is a great

threat to democracy and should not return to the oval office. 46 and 53 is 99. i think what we are fighting over is that is why a whole bunch of those people are with joe biden or harris or whoever the democrats pick and that is why you keep seeing all of these things supposedly we will change everything, still set two or three point difference between them. he is very vulnerable. i think the one thing, the debate was supposed to put the focus on him because the world we are in right now, the one with the most focus seems to get diminished i think that was obviously happening the biden postdebate. i think it is starting to turn. the focus is, because of the convention, was on trump. yeah, it was a dud of the speech, it is going to hurt.

joe biden may have been watching that last night, who could blame him for same, hell, i could beat this guy again, not taking aside on that, it is to be his decision, nothing any of us will say on the air whatever he decides to do. i think joe biden could defeat him, i think kamala harris could defeat him, we have a huge advantage. if he decides to pass the torch to a new generation of democratic leaders, that could open it up and really press trump into a bad place. >> yeah, conventions can be unpredictable, even though they are very scripted. you have worked a number of conventions, i know, i have seen you at conventions with the highest credential, better than the floor credential as joe knows, i have seen you with the backstage candidate access potential, convention nerds, don't play with chai , serious.

we all follow politics, i understand someone on friday night watching the beat, the convention is over, enough. actually, the first three days of the convention were very different from how it ended . if it were a football game, you would say, maga was in the lead for those days and the fourth quarter, the big ending last night, they blew the lead. i think that is fair to say, politically and it can matter. donald trump knows enough about television, he would be the last person you expect to blow the time line. lawrence o'donnell last night and others pointed out, they ran it too late, people have lives and go to bed, it is called prime time for reason. we have the ratings, i mentioned it earlier in the show, i was it plainly, fox news had the largest audience for the final night of the republican convention, i don't think that is a giant surprise. you could chart fox viewers turning off the tv before trump finished speaking. i will give you one more data point from the near times and

you take it away, chai . the times writing the speech, supposed to debut the new message, underscore that trump challenge with discipline, he stuck to the script at the start, as the clock ticked beyond the one hour, he could not resist falling back into rambling diatribe, which is long his style. over 90 minutes, the longest republican nomination address since 1956, when the uc santa barbara started tracking that statistic. other experts have said the longest ever, long in a bad way. >> what it reminded me of was that 1989 movie batman, jack nicholson plays the joker and goes on a date with vicky vale played by kim basinger and he puts on makeup to make himself look human over the clown makeup. as the date proceeds, the makeup starts coming off and the clown makeup and clown face is revealed. that is what i felt like i was watching for 90 minutes. the makeup was on but the inner clown was revealed. the kinder, gentler donald trump went out the window after 20 minutes. the whole convention, i would

say, was a messaging fail the goal of the convention was to go after young, white men, who like barstool sports and listen to joe rogan's podcast. as a result, you had amber rose , dana white, hulk hogan, kid rock. all of it was designed to show the maga is fun and donald trump is comfortable with your celebrity culture. the problem is, if you like that stuff, that type of entertainment, there is nothing in the convention to keep you hooked or glued or in any way enticed to vote for donald trump and maga . >> i want to extend the joker analogy, joe, i think you will admit is pretty strong, the other thing the joker does across many of the batman universes, is make a bet his depravity actually reflects gotham or society, if he wants people to kill and die for no reason, others will join the

christopher nolan version has the famous scene where they try to get people to blow each other up. the idea that we are all as bad as the joker, the great uplift of that film, the universe in different versions of the film is, as chai knows, we are not, not as bad as our worst day or the worst villain, for at a time has the spotlight or power. i wonder how that analogy chai offers plays with a long-term speech, which in its truth, by which i mean the reality of who donald trump is by the end of that speech, may have hurt the message we have told all week that they would finish on which was, "unity." >> part of the problem is exactly what you said, when he is told to tone it down, he comes across flat, he is on engaging, you go through that whole part of the speech where he was saying the right stuff, there is nothing in it for him. he does not get excited

because, like you said, appealing to the worst or whatever it is drives his followers. actually, one of the things i wonder, how the assassination attempt sort of changed things, could almost be the opposite, in a way, benefited trump. had the attack not happened, we would've seen most of the 95 minute speech exactly in daylight when everyone was watching and they all would have seen how bad he is. instead, he got to do this that 11:00 at night, as you said, no one really watched it. >> to be clear, people started it. they stopped watching. >> he was flat, that is what i'm trying to say, when he started, doing the toned down stuff, it wasn't him, it is not who he is. that will be a problem for the next 3 1/2 months with him.

>> we're out of time, chai , what is the single best batman film? >> christopher nolan's dark knight but i would say the next two would be that tim burton movies, popular 89 with jack nicholson and controversially, the '92 with danny devito and michelle pfeiffer, although i like the film that came out two years ago. >> joe? >> michael keaton, sorry, guys. i liked him as batman. >> you can't argue on taste. we have to disagree agreeably in our civic batman debates, i know you feel that way, joe. i go dark knight, dark knight rises is big for me. exclusive to in the week tonight, new york times writer ezra klein, you know him from his writing and podcasting, my next guest, he sounded early warnings that became the conventional conversation about biden and he says there's a way

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as long as the president, it is up to the president to decide if he is going to run we are encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. i want him to do whatever he decides to do and that is the way it is. >> time is running short, speaker pelosi speaking diplomatically speaking about something within president biden, now president biden had said then, july 10th, he had decided to stay in the race, he was the nominee so he used that appearance, that happens to be on msnbc morning joe, to reopen the conversation about whether he should make a different decision and drop out. the ground has continued to shift there is reporting tonight that behind closed doors, speaker pelosi, the former speaker, went further and pressed biden

to drop out and tells house democrats that she expects him to do so. to be clear, the biden campaign, as reported again earlier in the hour, ira drake, is saying there has been slippage but he is absolutely staying in the race and will be on the camping trip next week. the push from dr. mcgrath to step aside is historically unprecedented. that brings us to a special conversation tonight, a journalist and prominent folly or can msnbc viewers know and new york times readers and listeners of the podcast note is ezra klein. he broke ground in conversation that many people did not want to have and did it back in february, he wrote a much discussed piece that was called, democrats have a better option than biden. and in a sign of something, he will tell us what it was, it uncorked all kinds of reactions both buzz, interest, entry, also valerie went push back. noted he is a great president,

here's the thing, point you to moments when he is faltering in his campaign for the presidency because his age is slowing him, he wrote that the democrats denying, in february, only fooling themselves. step one, unfortunately, is convincing president biden he should not run again. and as the problems escalated, many turned back to the conversation that ezra had started, he noted what kind of party would continue to do nothing right now. in a piece noting, this is not all biden's fault. to end a very busy week, i'm thrilled to tell you we have that thought leader and as rec, that term gets thrown around a lot, this story it is accurate, five-time new york times journalist, host of the ezra klein podcast, host and colleague around here over the years, thanks for joining me tonight to >> thank you for having me.

>> i want to go in order, even though a lot happened today. this is when the conversations happening behind closed doors, in secret, sometimes with the type of shame and sensitivity and nobody wants to be a just or anything of the like, your piece, did in fact, uncorked something. tell us what you're thinking and tell us about the response to your piece from people in power in washington and how it impacted your thinking? >> reporter: i happen to be at the white house on the day the special counsel report came out. reporting on a bunch of things, immigration, reporting on the economy. i'm also time to think about something happening around that time, we could see in the polls, biden was losing, trailing donald trump, we have never seen donald trump leading in the polls in a presidential election before. the same week, decided not to do the super bowl interviews the second year in a row.

if you are a president running for re-election, the super bowl, aside from debates, aside from convention speech, even including those, the single biggest opportunity you have to reach people of the year and you get five, 10, 15 minutes to field softball questions but they weren't doing it, despite them being behind, they were not doing interviews in general, softball interviews with a monk who runs a podcast, all good people but not putting biden into tough spots, not doing press conferences. then he came out that night and after the special counsel report came out and in a press conference, one purpose, reassure people about his memory and cognitive faculties can he make not the biggest mistake in the world but not the kind of mistake you can make with that performs mixing up mexico.

i could see in the polls, having some time, most democrats do not want joe biden to run, july 2023. you could see most americans think he is too old to have a second term. every conversation i had with people i knew about him, people like me, were refusing to say but we actually knew and thought and talking about all the time behind closed doors, if this guy was up to it, he was not showing and he was not up to it, the consequences would be really profound and there would be no way past it. so you have to make a call, you could stay solid on it or assume it would be fine, or say, looking at the evidence in front of me, it will not be fine. at that point in time, i did not think it would be fine. it was the honest thing to say and talk about what followed from that, the question of kamala harris convincing people they needed them, they had other options. biden not up for the campaign.

>> one thing that happens in life, certainly in politics, people use narratives, caricatures, sometimes shortcuts and sometimes that works and sometimes it fails. there is a narrative democrats are the more factual party than the republicans, i can point to examples where they relied more on science or journalism. but this situation does not necessarily reflect that, as you alluded to. democrats, or innocence, denying situations or looking for a certain political lens. i want to put before viewers and you tonight, the famous adage in scarface, perhaps one of the most memorable lines of the whole film, we are told, don't get high on your own supply. you wrote, democrats denied themselves over the past few years, they denied themselves information, biden ran a better

primary race including debates, they would've seen earlier how he performed. set for extended tough interviews or attended news conferences, his shortcomings would have been clearer in the absence of that information, a narrative was put over it, to raise the issue at all with a just or defeatist. yet, here we are literally in the final weeks before august deadlines and the convention and they are having that late debate, what do you say to that? >> i give democrats a lot of credit for having that debate, you are watching the party act like a party, which is a fairly remarkable thing to see. what everybody is doing with year, including joe biden himself, is very difficult, going back months, i will not tell you i was honestly right about that, it was probabilistic prediction and it could've gone the other way. people thought he was fine, that he was up to this, easy to forget how essential that particular speech was, we understand he is stronger on the teleprompter than he is unscripted moments but i don't

think it was as clear at the time. biden's presidency, in my view as well, substantive good, they of past a lot of consequential legislation, very degrees of effectiveness, very difficult foreign policy crises, biden often says held together a lot of alliances. you would always hear from biden, if you're in the meetings with him, you would know he is great, sharp, asking questions, completely in charge. when democrats got the information in the debate maybe this wasn't the case anymore, the decline in terms of communicative performance was sharper than people realize, the party began to fracture and think about what to do. it is very important understand the slippage biden has had in the party in the last couple weeks about subsequent interviews he has done in public and the calls he had with members of congress. it has been this public performances that have shifted the ground under him. >> as they say, if you are

expert witness in court, i will put that exhibit before the jury and you can find out of it because the white house said, okay, we will do a blitz of interviews, the reality, you're crediting the party for dealing with reality, those interviews that were supposed to show the debate was a one-off did not achieve that. take a look. >> reporter: did you ever watch the debate afterwards? >> i don't think i did, no. trump is a pathological liar. trump is, he is -- i named the secretary of defense -- my generic point is, it is -- >> ezra. >> i don't feel good watching those. i'm sure you had the experience on the show, when i'm doing the podcast, sometimes we will run

a clip of biden. it feels like a cheap shot to do, sometimes it is so bad, so all over the place, so meandering, so quiet. nobody wants this for him and nobody wants this for the party. i don't think anybody is or should be taking any joy in it. it is a very difficult, it is an emotionally difficult situation. there are a lot of good people on both sides of it. biden is doing something very difficult, i don't know where his head is at a this exact moment, come to terms with the hardest possible thing to come to terms with, the diminishment of age and affect your store does not always end exactly the way you wanted it to. the thing i do find frustration in is, there's another narrative here, biden alluded to it in the interview where he talked about the comment he made to be transitional president, never 100% clear what it meant, was to get the

mean, if age slowed him, he would be one term president. in that interview, he suggested that as of lately what he meant but decided to run again because division is so bad, the situation is worse than he thought in the country. that is a mistake, there is a world where joe biden achieved the highest possible point in american politics, had an extra ordinarily successful first term and pass the torch in genuinely heroic and unusual way. what i would say above everything, that narrative is still available to him, if he does decide to the site in the coming days, he will be treated by democrats as a hero. there will not be a dry eye in the house at the convention speech, people understand what he is being asked to do is hard and selfless. it is not the way he wanted it to go. in anybody's life, we have all had aging relatives and had our own struggles with health and illness that diminished, things we thought we could do but

can't. i'm an authority on that, i have had some of those already. >> but as rock, hold on, you look 38. >> thank you. >> i appreciate the way you put it, it is funny how the conversations go because i read everything you said and we read it back in prep, talking about it, there is humanity and pathos that you are capturing and it reminds me, like you said, these conversations people did not want to have it all, because it is difficult, not a good reason to avoid something, certainly not with the stakes. we say that going into the weekend with no idea what is coming next. ezra klein, thank you. we will be right back. -really? -get a quote at progresivecommercial.com.

turning to important story that hangs over this week and a lot of the time to come to the security failure around former president donald trump's attempted assassination. secret service director kimberly cheatle will testify for the house oversight committee on monday and there is major scrutiny and questions. today was also the funeral for that firefighter who was killed at the trump rally. procession of firetrucks carrying the casket you can see here, he was honored at the rnc last night. there have been many new pieces of information over this busy week, including news that the secret service agents actually spotted the shooter around or near the rooftop area 20

minutes before the attack. >> local law enforcement official told the times around 20 minutes before trump began speaking, a police officer took a photo of the man acting suspicious. the officer circulates the photo among other officers but loses track of the suspicious man. at 6:09 p.m., two minutes before trump's hit, rally goers start pointing at a man crawling on top of this building next to the staging area. it is the building closest to the rally area. >> that is video breakdown by the new york times, while city manager told nbc that the building the shooter used was already designated a point of interest. >> reporter: any point during the security meetings, did someone mention this building? >> yeah, the building was identified as point of interest, as it was conveyed to me by our police department, something they would be vigilant planning for.

>> this is not a freak out of the blue maneuver that the shooter exercise, there were three snipers inside the same larger complex, confusion about how close they were to the shooter or at the adjacent structure. secret service members risk their lives, they did that on saturday, quite clearly. the director, though, on defense over another decision made at a structural level basically saying, they will not put any went all the way up on the roof, which i told you was identified as a point of interest, the reasoning offered to the public is the slope of the roof made it unsafe for those agents. >> the roof should've been secured, period. >> that building in particular has a sloped roof at the highest point, there's a safety factor considered there, we would not want to put somebody up on a sloped roof, the decision was made to secure the building from inside. >> watching for more information about that at the hearing. now, the planning of the shooting is also under

scrutiny, i told him we have to follow law enforcement evidence, not all the political talk about what people think or wish the shooting may or may not reveal. they have been using cell phone location data, investigators have determined the shooter might have been scoping this location out days in advance, up to six days earlier. he ordered packages of hazardous material for months, which suggests earlier planning, potentially of some sort of violence, they found a bulletproof vest in the car. they believe the individual did act alone. the shooter was a 20-year-old registered republican, numbered as politically conservative by some classmates, he is quite young, people that knew him within the last few years, he was known as shy and meek and faced bullying. investigators using electronic information, he searched not only for trump, trump, biden, other prominent people. he searched out the dates of the democratic national convention. officials suggesting to lawmakers significance of

evidence found on the phones and other digital devices is still not clear that he posted ominous message on the gaming platform, hinting he would be in the news on saturday. keep in mind, these are the kind of clues that bubble up, law enforcement has not determined a motive. if you look at the political posts on saturday or sunday, that assumed or discussed a motive or affiliation of the shooter, we are going into almost seven days out and we still don't have that from law enforcement. clearly, he searched for a lot of things and they are working on that. trump addressed this incident for the first time in public, in speech, last night at the rnc. >> i heard a loud whizzing sound and felt something hit me really, really hard on my right ear. if i had not moved my head at that very last instant, the

assassin's bullet would have perfectly hit its mark. >> president face this known risk and dinnertime's report that trump has been, quote, terrified by the prospect of being assassinated. he told two allies, he feared his killer would come potentially from within his own administration's agencies, after narrowly escaping with the site on saturday, rarely seen level of reflection behind closed doors talking to advisers about his legacy, how he might be remembered by his grandchildren. that is some of the reporting, as we learned over six days out from that horrific event. secret service director will testify about all of this and the security failure on monday, that is what people are watching to get more information on the record. we will be right back. you purc w safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package! and if you call today,

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the final night in milwaukee, political conventions often do dabbling in culture or celebrity,

sometimes that's a lighter note, the black-eyed peas played a couple conventions, sometimes it stumbles like clint eastwood, that is all i'm going to say about that. now, the republicans tonight, or doing something that goes beyond the typical culture or celebrity dabble, they're using figures a little bit outside of politics to really play with the notion of masculinity in american life. ufc president dana white, pro wrestler, hulk hogan, and a performance by someone who is not actually big in music right now, no disrespect, not on the charts right now but plays into a different appeal they want to make, meaning you might know, kid rock. as we look at this aspect, we have former senator mccaskill with this, my whole panel and myself, michael steele join the conversation, former rnc chair. i should note for the record, a male. >> dude. >> thank you.

i'm working on the butch ring. >> here is an opening question, i said this as fairly as possible, both parties doubled with culture, when you do that, there's a world the clint eastwood thing could've gone well, it didn't. here, we see multiple, very certain type of male performative masculinity figures coming out on the final night and trump, what you see? >> i see the same thing, a number of republicans, particularly, individuals the senator would know from her days in the senate, who think so much like josh hawley, this really masculine thing. >> i'm sorry. >> the next image we have of him is running away from the threat. there is this outside view of the gop as this butch, masculine, male-dominated thing. and it is a distortion which is

why, to some extent, joy, you and i had this conversation, certain african american, hispanic men, that appeals to them, it gives them that machismo. behind that is, i think, a lot of insecurity. that plays out politically in how we address complicated issues that touch on things that impact women, children, families, and community. you don't translate it that well that easily because you already created this image. when it is required that you deal with the crisis of gun violence in schools, or you deal with the crisis of women now being told that they do not have a choice on the decisions they make relative to their own health and their body, the response is what you hear from someone like j.d. vance. you know, which is, of course,

a woman in a violent situation, she just have to live with that, that is okay. because they don't know how to translate this built-up self- image of being the all macho macho man into something much more realistic. >> thanks for watching the beat we can come join us weekdays at 6:00 p.m. eastern for the beat on msnbc. t be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.