. billion come back to the weekend. now some feelings of joy are too strong to hide. at that was the case for heritage foundation president kevin roberts when he learned jd vance was donald trump's pick for vice president. roberts called vance an outstanding leader adding, his selection solidifies the reality critical issues president trump highlighted and worked tirelessly to address

over the past decade are not fleeting concerns. they are the foundation of the new republican party. for years, vance has commended roberts and the foundation for "incredible work on conservative policy. he even wrote the forward for robert's new book. so, if trump wanted to distance him self from project 2025 so badly, why did he pick candidate who so fully embraced its agenda? joining us now new york university professor ruth ben- ghia thing ator of strong men mussolini to the president opinion msnpc political contributor errin haines editor at large to the 19th. welcome both. >> ruth, he want to take michael's question because i think it's more than rhetorical. if trump wanted to distance himself from project 2025, why would he pick jd vance.

>> well, it's actually a common authoritarian move you the good cop bad cop. and in ticking vance, you couldn't have picked someone better suited inform your goal is to reck democracy because as you mentioned, he's close to the heritage foundation, he's an admirer of orban model for project 2025. hungary was just ranked the most corrupt nation in the eu. so that gives us a sense of where things are going. but, trump wants to keep his, you know, illusion of being for the people and only for the people so vance is a useful tool for him. >> ruth -- i guess, i guess -- well erin i will throw this to you because i am stuck on

something right now. and, you're close to the ground on a lot of these things. want to play a little bit of sound from advance on project 2025 from july 11th. take a listen to this. >> this is the craziest fear tactor they are using. i think most americans couldn't care left about project 2025. i read a lot of it. there's good ideas and things i disagree with but most importantly it has no affiliation with the trump campaign. >> okay. so i am just going to call that a lie straight up, and so we don't -- get past the pretense there's no core lags or connection. because we have got trump on tape talking about and bragging about project 2025. being the foundation of what he's going to do in the next administration. but here's the thing, what i am hearing now, and my good friend brendan bucks and my were talking about this in the last

hour. how does this translate 900- page to being unit. are people making much more of project 2025 than they need to that people generally won't care as brendan is saying? this is a fear tactor it means nothing? nothing to look at here. how should the american people be consuming this blueprint for the second trump term? >> yeah. i mean, listen. there is a direct correlation between project 2025 and direct correlation is literally now republican vice presidential nominee jd vance. but you are right. there was no mention of project 2025 in jd vance's accept answer speech wednesday height. i was on the grouped and listening for and looking for signs of project 2025 and they were no war to be found. we know why the former president is attempting to distance himself from this document because voters learn more about it, they don't like what they are learning.

it's the same playbook they are using on abortion. you know really kind of trying to keep that out of the convention conversation. and they kept -- it's something that the former president doesn't mention very much on the campaign trail. you didn't hear jd vance saying anything about abortion on that convention stage. but you know, it's on the platform even if it was not on the convention stage last week or campaign trail in the current moment. and you know, i think you know on my podcast i am unpacking what is in project 2025 and how it overlaps with agenda 47, which is that the platform that former president trump put forward. so, there are similarities between though two documents. there's overlap between the authors of the two documents in terms of people in the former president's administrations many the authors of the chapters of project 2025. so, again, as people are learning more about it, i think it's becoming clear what the

relationship is between former president trump and project 2025. >> let's put the authors on the screen so the people can see it honey. some of the people that -- some former trump officials linked to 2025 paul dance, he is a the former opm chief of staff under trump and project 2025 director. rick dearborn former deputy chief of staff. russ vought. gene hamilton ken cuccine-l-l-i ben carson and tom holeman was on the convention stage. author of one of the contributors to the dhs chapter as well. ruth, of fundamentally believe that when we use terms such as fascism or author terrorism and maybe particular tateorship and i am not talking about political professions but every day regular folks working sometimes two, three jobs to

just make enough money to feed their families, when they hear that, i think they think it's hyperbole and people are being dramatic. and you say victor erban is in dictator but isn't he in nato. are people being hyperbolic? i don't think we are. but like, from a historical perspective and someone who studies this, break it down for folks why many of us are right to be concerned. >> well, there's the record of what trump has done. he tried to overthrow the government. he staged a violent coup. >> make it plane. ruth is like, well, make ate plain for the people, ruth, yes. >> i mean, like a third of my book is on military coups and i didn't think it would be relevant to the united states other than the united states having backed coup in latten america in the cold war. but this is somebody whose record speaks for itself and

you know, in vance he found somebody who said he would do what mike pence wouldn't do. that he would have done what ever was possible this is not a right wing extremist of vance who said we need to you know, we need to have a different kind of government a mi means to that end are acceptable. i want to shed another point of light on another point of connection with project 2025 one of the pillars is deregulation and privatization. and that's what the billion airs backing vance and trump want. it's not just they want tax cuts, because the dream of the thor terrorism is you take the rights of the many like reproductive and voting and i give the croneies unlimited liberty to do whatever they want and pay no price because you have removed all the regulations. and peter, the billionaire who

funded not just vance's senate campaign, but also his venture capital firm is famously in favor of privatization. so, there are concrete agenda items that are part of project 2025, and are also part of the choice for vice president. >> here's thing i think it's one thing to hear that from ruth. i think it's another thing to hear it directly from jd vance. here's some sound of jd vance on this is september of 2021 on the jack murphy live podcast show. take a listen. >> i think that what trump should do if i was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid level bureaucrat every civil servant and place them with our people and what do you do with the department of education what victor has done in hungary. i think go down american

institutions, and make it possible for conservatives to actually govern and succeed in the institutions where they are cut out. >> i mean, my goodness, it's like fascism bingo fire all the mid level. >> project 2025. it's like go down the list. >> project 2025. >> these are the agencies right here project 2025 got them on a list, honey. >> listen,. >> also the talk of our people. he rrin, the shout out to victor orban it may not land from roof so listen to what jz vance said before he was chosen of the vice presidential pick. >> yeah, i mean, look i hear you, you know, you got the receipts i see symone holding up the receipts purr this is gop remix. look i said, i was on the ground in milwaukee in the convention hall listening to you know republicans like jd vance and former president trump literally trying to recast what the republican

agenda is about that they are the party of democracy. that the threat to democracy is on the other side, that you know they don't know anything about project 2025. there was no mention of the january 6th insurrection on that convention stage even though there was people in the audience wearing t-shirts you know, supporting the january 6th insurrection or hostages. they don't care what was said before. jz vance doesn't care about what he said before even about his now boss. so, you know regardless what have people continue to pull up, they are going to say don't know her, don't know anything about that, where i am now is what you need to be listening to and paying attention to. but i think it's important to continue to point out previous statements statements, previous actions, you know, and really the thing is there is a record. there are receipts out there that that can be pulled up each and every time they try to remix and recast this message

for a more general election audience that maybe wasn't paying attention before. >> the remix when the original was bad in the first place. errin thanks for joining us. ruth we want to discuss the phone call that took place between president zelenskyy and donald trump. you are watching the weekend. r you are watching the weekend. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package! and if you call today, you'll also receive 15% off your entire order. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds!

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and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. donald trump and president

zelenskyy spoke on phone friday for the first time in roughly five years. the call came almost five years to the day after another call between the two led to donald trump's first impeachment. trump called the conversation very good. i am looking forward to the unofficial read-outs of the call. mown while, jd vance said this about america's involvement in foreign conflicts. >> there's nothing radical about having a strong national security that when we go to war, we punch and we punch hard but being cautious and not trying to get america involved in every far-flung corner of the world. sometimes my friends, it is none of our business. and we ought to stay out of it. >> ruth ben-ghi a. t and jane harman. congresswoman, i am going to come to you first, because there's reporting out there that the trump now trump-vance foreign policy view in the

second term would be to let take a back seat to europe. and i am wondering given that reporting, the comments from jd vance what we know donald trump has said about ukraine and what he and vance believe. how is this shaping up for you? how are you seeing this. >> i wouldn't call it a back seat. i would call it abdicating our responsibilities against europe for russian aggression. if they back off however you want to phrase this, and let putin not only take ukraine but march into europe, what do you think xi will do to taiwan. jd vance says he is not interested in ukraine because he wants to defend our interest against china. well, i think that would send exactly the wrong signal. it would break our promises to allies and break our history with europe. they are our largest -- the largest trading block in the

world. and i mean, dumb and lame is not adequate to describe what that policy is. >> and ruth, the -- i love the way congresswoman ended that dumb and lame. says so much about sort of the dumbing down of our international engagements by the trump team, the trump-vance team now. i want to pull back the lens because i have such mad respect for your writing and thinking and work in this space. how would you, or rather what would you say to 1933 germany today. i mean, knowing what we know, what would you say to the folks the leadership and even the united states in 1933, because i think people kind of lose sight of the absolute role that history can play from an

instructive level. so help frame this moment a little bit, because as we talked about before, we throw the terms around fascism and trump want to call every democrats a communist and all this other crazy stuff. help americans understand what this framing really is from that perspective. >> i am so glad we are talking about this because i have been tracking with alarm this hashtag of peace the autocrats of peace they are using they are tweeting peace and trump is presenting himself as the man of peace. and everyone should realize that they are not going to be isolationists trump and vance and the backers, they are immeshed in another international order that is shaping up. and that's the auto kratic order. and the role of the united states is get out of nato hang

back and partly redeploy the military, i believe, not saying the military would accept this at all, but the idea would be to use the military for domestic repression, and here we have the mass deportation, project 2025. and trump has said that he will allow putin to do whatever he wants and recently said that since taiwan was stealing our semiconductor chip market, that he would not oppose you know, whatever xi and china did and taiwan. so this is this is hanging back to benefit auto krats. and the idea of peace is something that nobody should believe. this is peace that benefits autocratic imperialism. >> congresswoman harman listen, i will read it, political reporter about the call between trump and zelenskyy. he trump going so far to state we negotiate peace before he

assumes office in january. and called zelenskyy the greatest salesman of all time for his efforts to secure billions of dollars in military, economic and humanitarian aid from washington. but the title of that peace trump and zelenskyy hold phone call and ukraine says it liked what it heard. talk about the position this puts zelenskyy and puts ukraine in. >> well, zelenskyy has to take that phone call. let's understand, trump hasn't won yet. we have 120 days to go i hop my party pulls together around buyened-harris whom i support or somebody else if the part decides for a different decision. but i think trump and vance with this rhetoric could lose. there's a big middle in america responsible and there are republican senators who are here in aspen dan sullivan, and i will remember who our much more responsible than the

rhetoric we are hearing. jd vance was junior senator spent 15 months in the united states senate, and i think that this rhetoric is not only dangerous, but it is turning off americans. so, let me put that out there. on the phone call, again, i am glad they are talking, but i don't believe a word of it until one, this they are elected and two they try to implement it. a majority of the american public and majority of the congress support ukraine. there are funds now for ukraine and let's understand while we are talking about this, there are brave ukrainians in trenches trying to take back the modest amount of land that russia has cruelly acquired over nine -- over two years of fighting. and so i believe that the aid we are sending and interest on seized assets europe has agreed to send, plus the long range fires which we are finally sending and permission to

attack russian targets in crimea and russia, will turn this around before the election. it is crucial to make more progress and to prevent russia from taking over europe as you just said and china from its expansionist ideas especially in taiwan. >> before we go, congresswoman, prime minister netanyahu of israel is making his way to washington on tuesday. he will be with president biden. he will have a bilat with vice president harris and wednesday address congress. this is a high stakes time for netanyahu to visit. i am wondering your thoughts, i am sure he has goals to demonstrate his relationship with the u.s. is still strong. to maybe shift the conversation away from what's happening from the war in gaza to you know positioning against iran. but the united states has goals as well. >> yes, we do ants goals have been spelled out quite clearly. there a peace initiative that has been agreed to by both

sides the question is how and when it will be implemented. i gather from tony blinken and jake sullivan here at the conference i am attending, that there's -- we are within the goal, but we have to get the touchdown. and so, maybe this will happen before netanyahu shows up. that would be wonderful. otherwise, i think that the pressure will be intense on him from an america that he needs as a partner and ally, let's remember truman was the first person first president and first government we were to recognize existence of israel, and israel has to be a responsible partner in very dreadful situation. it has to protect itself, but i believe that this peace initiative that's signed off by israel and hamas, and other -- and the 14-zip vote or

unanimous vote in the security council russia object stained and the clock is ticking. >> the clock is ticking. jane thank you ruth ben-ghiat thanks. president biden's plan to win back skidish democrats take on the supreme court. that's next on the weekend. . that's next on the weekend. after careful review of medical guidance and research on pain relief, my recommendation is simple: every home should have salonpas. powerful yet non-addictive. targeted and long-lasting. i recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ hisamitsu ♪

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we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now. president biden has a compelling now pitch including make changes to the supreme court. source tell nbc news the proposed reforms needing congressional approval, including establishing term limits for justice in and upcode updated code of ethics. anthony joins us now and he is the former director of the office of public affairs and senior adviser to attorney general merrick garland. >> okay. i think that -- let me first

just say. >> is that your lawyer sound there? she is like. >> i used to talking points i never had had the pleasure of being a lawyer. this is how i would talk to lawyers in the meeting. so i think that this is notable. how ever, it is important to say that this would not be able to be implemented without congress and we haven't seen the proposal yet. it's not out. but what we know any changes to how the supreme court operates, is overseen needs congressional approval. >> that's right. so i will tell you here, it's smart policy you are absolutely right. it's smart politics. there was a fascinating fox news poll this week on the look that supreme court approval ratings and other things. and supreme court now has a 60% des approval rating. the highest ever. 38% approve of the job but more

importantly, the poll found broad widespread approval for both turn term limits and mandatory retirement age. it tells me that people are paying attention to this court, and ways that i don't think donald trump and the republican campaign appreciated that people are paying attention to it. so, my hope here is that what ever joe biden comes up with, that it's not just policy points and a white paper they stick on a shelf. that they make it a central part of the campaign where they are focused on a fight for our freedoms and our future. they are fighting against forces all forces symone, that would take us back and not move us forward. >> you make the point, you know, about where we are, where the americans so the court right now, and your general view is they don't like it. >> right. >> the biden campaign laid out

these proposals. they don't involve any fundamental change to the court in terms of its size or moving it from the current 9 to 13. i've talked to some folks in the maga space who say that's what trump wants to do. despite what they are significant. >> move it from 9 to 13. >> so you have a 10-3 conservative court well into the rest of the century. so, i think to your point, the -- symone is about to leave. >> i gathered my items so we can go because this is crazy. >> wait a minute. it makes sense. it makes logical sense. despite what you think you are hearing from the right, about oh, you know the left wants to expand the court and all this other things, that's part of their playbook. how do you look in the court for the -- to the end of this century? >> right. >> i mean, you now put four new 40-year-olds on the court, and i mean, so, to your point about

what the american people are maybe appreciating more than the trump team may think they are, those aspects of what this court will look like after this election starts to matter. >> that's right. and there's an important history lesson. and i want to make sure people and your viewers understand that this did not happen overnight. this conversation that you just mentioned, this super majority that we now have. if you trace history back to the reagan administration and you look at attorney general edwin meeks he put together a blueprint about how conservatives could use the court to enact a conservative policy agenda through the court system. and so, that was 1985, i believe it was, when reese was reagan's second attorney general. and so we are now at a point where with this conservative super majority, michael, we have people on the court who don't pea long on the court.

neal gores up and people that should be recused because of ethical conflicts. and so, we have a conservative super majority that is doing what edwin wanted them to do, what they wanted to happen in 1985, using the courts and judicial process to enact a conservative agenda that's taking away people's rights. that's how they got rid of roe v. wade and so many other things. >> i was going to use repro and we have less than a minute left but i want to connect other dots with you, anthony, this is from melissa murray. justice thomas strikes did a majority of the court give presidents unfeathered license in the immunity case thomas questioned the cons usality and laid the table and judge cannon took a seat. >> right. the curious case of aileen cannon. >> i am going to grab my stuff and go. >> yeah. >> you want to talk about

someone who has ignored precedence. there were eight different judges appointed by republicans and democrats who already ruled on this issue of about the appointment of a special council. so, she is ignoring precedence. this is what i am talking about and this is the seam thing the supreme court is doing. they are ignoring settled law. they are ignoring precedence to bring about the objective they want. in in case the case want donald trump to be president again, and appoint justices perhaps to the supreme court, in the vein of eileen cannon and that i think should frighten all of us who love democracy and pro constitution. >> anthony coley thanks so much for being with us. ahead, some breaking news on congressional effort to get president biden to pass the torch. adam smith will join us with

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downy. breathe life into your laundry. breaking just moments ago senator joe manchin is calling on president biden to drop out of presidential race. >> he will go down with a legacy unlike many people finest and patriot americans so with that i come with heavy heart to think the time has

come to pass the torch to a new generation. >> manchin is the fifth senator and first independent senator to make this call. that's despite the biden campaign insisting the president is not going anywhere. congress mam adam smith joins us now. welcome, congressman. >> welcome, congressman. thanks for being with us. your reaction to this breaking news from senator manchin. >> well, i think it shows the building momentum that joe biden needs to step aside at this point. that it's time for a different nominee. and he just really hope that the president and his team heed the calls and see the reality of where we are at. i think the republican convention showed us two things. one, that they are -- they are going to be a formidable force. they are, but it is incredibly important that we defeat them. all right. president former president trump's speech was unhinged and

dangerous. we can't let that come back. we to have the strongest possible team to stand up to that very clear threat to the future of this country. and we have to do it as soon as possible. the president right now, president biden is not in position, i feel to, strongly deliver that message. as we saw in the debate, and frankly we have seen since then. so, i am hoping that his campaign team heeds this and understands how important this moment is, and makes the right decision. i agree with senator manchin assessment. >> so, congressman, if that's the case, who then are you backing for to be the nominee of the democratic party? >> i am backing kamala harris. i think she is clearly the strongest candidate we have on the stage right now. from remember time as vice president. particularly in the last couple of years. look, vice presidents is not an easy gig. trying to figure out what your role is when you are in an incredibly role and have no defined responsibilities, but

she figured it out. particularly on choice on women's health care, she has been a strong voice. but also, on national security and foreign policy. i go to the munich security conference every we are. it's vice president harris who has been the spokesperson for the administration at that event for the last three years. and she is delivered a very strong message on the importance of protecting ukraine, on nato, on the role the u.s. should play on the world, and bringing or allies together. so, i am supporting kamala harris. the delegates will decide. i am confident vice president harris get the support and be nominated and she has my support. >> congressman, as i am sure you know. most reporting showing the trump campaign would prefer to run against president biden thinking that any sort of change in course adds a variable to the race. i want you to listening to what donald trump was asking a crowd about who they would like him

to run against. this is from michigan last night. >> who would you like to most run against if you are us, if we want to win? ready? kamala harris. >> boo. >> crooked joe biden. >> yes. >> all right. i don't think we have to go too much further. >> so it's the sound congressman not because i delight in ever playing donald trump sound but because i think it helps illustrate some of the frustration from democrats who are unhappy with the fact this is unfolding so publicly, that believe there is a process for this, that this could have been done behind closed doors. that there could have been a pressure campaign that did not crack into the open the way that this has. >> that's totally untrue. please, speak to that critique. >> look, the debate happened. and the second joe biden walked

off the debate stage, there was only one thing that should have happened. it was very clear at that point that he was no longer physically cape and of carrying the campaign the degree it needs to be. i called up the white house, the day after the debate, i said look, he has to step aside. we had a conversation about it, i didn't hear anything for days. six days after that, i called up somebody higher up in the white house, had the same conversation. and it became very clear to me about ten days after this, that the president and his team decided that they weren't even going to have the conversation. it was like nothing to see here, we are fine. we are running and everyone will have to live with it. all right. so, those private conversations were happening, if nobody had ever gone public, there's no way the president would ever consider getting out. they were not giving it the serious consideration it deserved despite numerous

behind the scenes private conversations. now, it just, in our constituents we are public officials. when constituents ask after this debate and after some of the other performances since the debate, that we are not very effective. they come up and ask, so do you think the president is up for this? what are we supposed to do lie? okay, you know, well, that's what happened with some people who didn't want to go public. you know, it's not a great image for any political official to run away from cameras, okay. i've seen two people run away from cameras in the last year. i won't tell you who the second one us about i saw george santos running out of the house. you guys have been there. you've been on the hill. what do you think of a member who d away doesn't answer a question? okay. the only people that forced this to go public are the biden campaign. by not making the right decision after that debate. and again, i waited 11 days 11 days and numerous conversations with white house people and

campaign people who blew me off and blew everybody off and said leave us alone we are running. and that's it. >> so congressman, i have talked to a lot of dnc delegates who, and chairs of the caucuses, who were upset about how they feel as though members of congress who are super delegates who do not have a vote on the first ballot and are not the one to make the desists, essentially got together themselves, to come out and call on the president to step out of the race, and didn't check with party members. didn't check with the base. so, what do you say to those folks. i hear your point about you don't foal as though the campaign was responsive to the comments after the debate. which frankly i used to work there i don't know any campaign would be response itch after a bad debate night folks saying you need to consider dropping out. that's unheard of but so is the

situation we are currently in. why do the members of congress know better than the voting. >> two points. >> the national committee and then some of the voters. because i hear your voters have question about biden's age and voters say i think he is old but if it's him or trump, i will vote for him. >> well, first of all, go back and watch all 90 minutes of the debate. >> i sat through it, sir. i i saw it it was a bad debate we don't need to debate that the debate sucked. >> no, i seen bad debates. i've seen a lot of bad debates. i never in my life seen anything like that. a person so clearly physically incapable of making the arguments that need to be made. so, if you are right, i heard you, just let me get this out, if you are right, okay, if in fact no campaign would ever consider the president stepping aside put yourself in my situation after that debate. i believe that the future of

the repub depends on donald trump not getting back in the white house. and i just saw a candidate who is incapable of stopping that from happening. so your argument is, because he was the candidate, well of course he is not going to consider stepping aside. no candidate would ever consider stepping aside. and i feel in my heart and in my soul that he has to for the sake of the ability to win. we going to go i am going to watch baseball game. >> that was not my question. >> number two. >> let me get to your other point. >> you didn't get to the first point. >> i am getting to it right now. >> the dnc members. >> let me get to it okay. >> floor is open. >> i know delegates and see them and intercounter them and had conversations with them and i had a number of forget delegates, democrats, grass roots democrats let me finish. >> i didn't say anything. o my goodness sir i didn't say anything. >> i am sorry. my bad. you had that look i try not.

>> i had the look like i didn't say anything. >> let me get the . out. so i am they were begging me we can't do this. we have beat trump he's not up for it what are you going to do. yes delegates have a position of responsibility, but i have a position of responsibility as well. and if your point is as members of congress our answer to what is happening in the biden campaign not just in the debate, but come on, before the debate. people have seen him in situations where he wasn't up to the task that he should have been up to. since the debate and as a member of congress you are telling me what i should have said was hey, i got nothing to do with this, delegates will call i am out. i hope they figure it out. i am sorry, that's not my understanding of my responsibility to my constituents and country. >> congressman, adam smith of washington with a passionate defense of his position. thank you very much sir for

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it's not enough the president said over and over again that he is running. clearly, that is not convincing a lot of the democrats right now. we have the republicans who have got an organized forward facing campaign that they are prosecuting. how do you guys see this landscape right now given that the democrats are two and half, three weeks away from the convention and this is at the level you've got this sort of -- it's not a drip but a steady stream of folks coming out against president biden. i don't know. i don't know how that -- how you stop that energy right now. >> or is it even stoppable? i mean, you have senator manchin coming out today and congressman smith with passionate defense of his position. obviously feeling the heat because he want to explain and heard from the critics and i think a lot of the members have. but at this ., it seems to me and i said earlier this week,

the president is resolute but the opposition to the president's candidacy is also resolute. so if this is a stand off and it's like who blinks first i don't think the opposition is blinking. the other thing i heard particularly from congressman smith in that conversation was about he called the white house in the aftermath of the debate and he felt i am going to paraphrase but essentially brushed off and rebuffed and ignored by the white house. i heard that from some other individuals privately who have noted a similar thing. there -- i think there's a criticism of the ins layerity of the team around the president. but is the ins layerity is that the reason that folks maneuvering to again push the president out of this race, and at this ., is it not if it is happening, is it a win? i mean, a win is w-h-e-n not w-

i-n. i think there's questions and i don't know how it ends. >> i don't know how it ends i know we don't have much time but the role you then senator manchin specifically plays given he is now come out and made the call. >> you know, it's just one of others. you know, and at this point. my thing is, where were the people six months ago. where was. >> or in the primary. >> in the primary. >> where was congressman smith then? did you just lebanese this about the president when he did the debate or was -- what i heard from folks is that this has been there for a while. and yet, no one is seemingly cared enough to raise that flag. and if they did, then why didn't you make that public then? so, you know for me, as a strategist, going into a national campaign, beginning in literally two months, to have the party if i am running this party, at this point, i -- how do you win? how do you put together a win

because you are fracturing the base. on the other side of this you have to link arms and go together as a base because here's other problem, you have to convince others to join you because your base is not enough. you need coalitions to actually win this thing against what is a formidable force in front of you. >> well, michael. >> all right. so that's me. refill the mug. >> we. whatever you want. >> whatever you need right now go refill that mug. >> i am about to get extra in we have another hour -- yes, we do another hour of the weekend straight ahead. we will be joined by biden- harris principle deputy manager. i am looking forward to talk to him. jason johnson lindy li and corey brets snyder you are watching the weekend on the weekend. theee wkend on the weekend.

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