really scared about what happens next and whether the democratic party can come together. what would you say to them? >> i think that the democratic party was in really bad shape with the concerns about the enfeebled public appearance of the president in that debate. it shook people, not only because it was one bad us performance but because it underscored and validated some concerns people had about the president's age and his health and his capacity. it absolutely split the democratic party into 1 million different pieces. different pieces. i don't think there's going to be one whisper of a fight in the democratic party about getting behind her. i think the democratic party will now unify like nothing you've seen from this party in

many years around the necessity of supporting her in building the kind of campaign that you have never seen before to try to keep donald trump from returning to the white house and undoing the american system of government. the endorsement of president biden, a vice president harris, i think that will be seen as a period at the end of a sentence underscoring let's go. there will be technocratic stuff that needs to happen in terms of giving her at the top of the ticket and the delicate and the convention and all that stuff, but that is not the start of an open primary. if the democrats want to start a primary in late july and thereby commit electoral suicide, i will be surprised. democrats have surprised me before, but this means vice president harris is going to be at the top of the ticket. by running with brock obama in 2008 and then serving ably as

his vice president for 2 terms, he is part of history of the first black president in this country. and what joe biden did today is going to give us the first black woman president in this country. kamala harris is going to enbe donald trump in november. he is going to a been the man more responsible to that than anybody else in the country, od having had that key role in both campaigns. >> first woman vice president, first black woman vice president even before that. first black woman appointed to the supreme court as well under joe biden. there could still be a bit of a fight, a bit of a tussle for vice president. for vice president under kamala harris. but i want to utalk about kentucky government andy shearer. not exactly a status will be won by democrats, but one who can speak to working-class voters in the rust belt, the blue wall state, and there's

also been a lot of talk about gretchen whitmer. and i love to hear your thoughts about that, because seeing two women on a ticket going after -- going up against donald trump and jd vance afterd all of the testosterone we saw at the rnc last week, what are your thoughts there? >> it's a really interesting prospect. katie, me turn the conversation back around to you. i just said that i think the democrats will now not have a fight over whether or not kamala harris is going to be the nominee. i really see this as -- it was becoming clear that that was what was going to happen if resident biden dropped out now with his endorsement. do you agree that that is done? >> i do. and just by the conversations i've been having on my text messages and the treatments i've seen coming in, i had to have lots of conversations with lawmakers about what should ul come next. there was a lot of talk initially that it should be an

open field. they should let kamala harris prove herself in an open field because on the anointment would weaken her, whereas a challenge would strengthen her if she came out on top. there was a reporting that nancy pelosi was saying in private. the second that this was announced, i started getting a flood of go, let. there was also at one point a pro, lead document that was being shared among big biden donors pitching her. and the more that i heard people talk about her, the more that she was poking of, the more than i heard big democrats say, i think she does actually have a good chance at this. she wrote a great piece in the atlantic about kamala harris and why she seemed to struggle in the first few months for first couple of years of being vice president. she wasn't being herself, essentially.

she ran in 2020 at a moment when democrats were saying defund the police. it was a very progressive moment. law enforcement was front and en center. her whole history is being a prosecutor, tough on crime. the question going forward is, which kamala harris are we going to see? are we going to see a return to her roots as a prosecutor, as the attorney general in california, a place and is based where she is comfortable, especially running against a convicted felon? or are we going to see the, let that we saw in the first couple of years in the white house or maybe during the 2020 campaign? my instinct is to say we will see more of the prosecutor especially because of who her opponent is. >> kamala harris is not an inginue. she is a known quantity. she has a long history in california politics and law enforcement. la she has a substantial history as a senator, and now we have seen her operate on the national and international age as vice president. the campaign for kamala harris

to be the next president of the united states starts right now. i think that she has -- she will have not just a unified democratic party, but a turbocharged unified democratic party behind her. and it's funny. i do think you are right, katie, that there's going to be an interesting fight about who i is going to be her running mate. i don't really care. i feel like the democrats have a really good bench right now. and maybe they will pick mark kelly. maybe they will pick andy beshear. maybe they will pick gretchen whitmer. abie raphael warnock. i don't know. pick somebody. they will pick jon tester. kamala harris is going to be the next president. >> if picking somebody from one

of those states insured winning that state, you would do that. obviously, it has to be somebody who kamala harris believes is qualified to do the job of president. that's the most important qualification. has to be siding is a really good campaigner. has to be somebody was personal chemistry with the nominee, and it has to be somebody who has chops for both doing the job and winning the job. i just feel like there's a lot of really good options. the fact that this contest, however she's going to make this decision, is going to be one from a position of strength. i mean, you can feel the democratic party consolidating right now. as we sit here, you can feel it coming together. in the next 3 1/2 months, it's going to be lights out in terms of this campaign against donald trump. donald trump thought that he did not have to worry about winning this election because he thought he was running against joe biden.

and while joe biden has had a good record as president, he's presented himself as enfeebled in a way that would be difficult for this campaign. because he thought he didn't need to compete very hard to win, he picked jd vance. he picked someone who's not going to help him at all. the republicans were going to win ohio anyway. they did not need a 39-year-old conservative guy to try to consolidate new votes for donald trump and he wasn't otherwise going to get. they picked jd vance because they wanted him to govern -- he wanted him for governing, not for campaigning. kamala harris gets to pick something for both, and i think that's a better position to be in. >> he is aligned with donald trump, or the idea of donald trump the conservatives are pushing on policy. e one of those ideas is abortion. donald trump has said that he believes it should be left up ld to the states. the apparatus behind him doesn't believe that. project 2025 that the use of

comstock act to ban the abortion pill for being shipped nationwide, ban the tools needed for the abortion procedures, ban them from being shipped nationwide across state lines. use the fta to make the abortion pill even harder to get. he believes in a federal abortion ban. i thought it was so interesting being at the rnc last week. abortion didn't come up. they didn't talk about it once. not once. and that is exactly what kamala harris has been campaigning on day in and day out for about a year now. >> yeah. and jd vance -- project 2025 is really something on women's rights generally and women's role in the country and in society and in politics. but just look at jd vance. jd vance signed onto a letter that says that prosecutors should be able to get women's medical records from out-of-

state to pursue prosecutions for abortion. so if you live in a state where abortion is banned and you travel to california or new york or illinois or someplace else to get an abortion in a state where it is legal, jd vance wants prosecutors, law enforcement in the state to be able to get your medical records against your will from somewhere else you went in the country to pursue you across state lines so they can use your medical records and prosecutions. jd vance on abortion is the worst-case scenario you would invent for a barroom argument, for a discussion with your friends about how bad it could d possibly be. they picked jd vance because they thought they had this t election in the bag, and joe biden did this today, and now it is an absolutely different ball game. jd vance and donald trump are going to lose in november and donald trump is going to regret

picking jd vance as his running mate. >> he also said at one point he was against no-fault divorces, saying it's too easy to get divorced. and that is what has enabled women historically now to free themselves of some pretty violent marriages, or just bad marriages. the idea that you can go in and say, it's not working for many a longer and i would like to get out. he does not believe in that. >> he has explicitly said that a woman any violent marriage ma should be allowed to get out of it, specifically talking about violent abuse by a husband. >> do we want to see a woman debating jd vance in a vice presidential debate? you have kamala harris going after former president trump now in a debate. if it happens again in september, let's see if the debates change. but wouldn't the position that o jd vance is taken on abortion, divorce, violent marriages -- wouldn't that be the red carpet

being rolled out for gretchen whitmer to stand there and say, here is what you believe? >> sure. but given what he believes, i'd be happy to watch a protein shake debating him. n i don't think it matters. i mean, any democrat who can talk about -- the kinds of issues were jd vance has taken the kinds of stances you and i s have just described over the last few minutes, those are not 50/50 issues in this country. /5 they are not 60/40. he is taking the kind of stances that single digits of americans support. you do not need any type of democrat in particular to prosecute a case against jd vance. he is a real weirdo from a really, really narrow slice of the far right side of the ideological's doctrine. they picked him because they didn't think you would have to be defending himself at all. >> they picked him because they said they wanted to sit him ed down in michigan, wisconsin,

and sylvania -- three states we will be talking about ad nauseam going forward -- they thought he would be able to talk to the voters, the people he grew up with. i'm rewriting history a little bit about what he wrote in his book, hillbilly elegy, about the groups of orders and the idea that they were blaming everybody else when they really needed to look inward to see what they were doing to t contribute to their own not so great position. >> this is a guy who was given a series of jobs by a very far right eccentric billionaire who says he doesn't believe in democracy. jd vance his entire career was jobs given to him by peter teal, who then give a larger donation than has ever been given to a single senate candidate, by a single donor id ever, to get jd vance a seat in the united states senate. the same guy who gave him all his jobs. there's a reason that he himself is not running for office. it's because he believes that democracy and freedom are not compatible. he thinks everything is gone

downhill since women have the right to vote. he wants proposed that america not only should be abandoned, but it should be abandoned by conservatives for shipping containers, that they should float into the ocean and govern as libertarian paradises. i mean, this is not normal stuff. this is the guy who created jd vance. he has essentially been his intern for his entire adult life. honestly, it doesn't matter who is going up against him. with kamala harris at the top of the ticket, nobody is going to pick donald trump and that guy instead of her. >> i'm getting messages like this from friends of mine. f girls, women, who are worried about sexism. worried about having a woman at the top of the ticket. worried because they thought that hillary clinton lost because this country was too sexist to elect a woman. >> yup. i mean, yes. but does that mean a woman should never run for president? nope. and at this point, the

vice president of the united states is kamala harris. she has done an able job as vice president. she has the endorsement and was chosen by joe biden for just such an occasion. she is the nominee of the democratic party and it is now a the job of everybody in the country who does not want donald trump to be the next president to get her over the top. you can worry about it, but you know, that and a bag of chips. sorry. it's just, the task is upon us. here it is. >> is a statement from president clinton and secretary clinton, president clinton has capped a presidency that is lifted america out of an unprecedented endemic, rebuilt a battered economy, strengthen our democracy, and restored our standing in the world. by any measure, he has advanced our founders charge to building work perfect union, restoring the soul of our nation. we join millions of americans and thanking president biden for all he has accomplished,

standing up for america time and again with his northstar always what is best for the country. we are honored to join the president in endorsing vice president harris and we will do whatever we can do to support her. we went through many ups and downs, but nothing has made us more worried for our country than the threat posed by a second trump term. he's promised to be a dictator on day one, and the recent ruling by his servile supreme court will only embolden them ur to further shred the constitution. now is the time to support kamala harris and fight with la everything we've got to elect her. america's future depends on it. talk about how the campaign might look. we got from president biden while he was running a lot of talk about democracy, a lot of talk about the threat the donald trump poses january 6th. we didn't get as much, or as forcefully on the economy, and this is a white house that has a really good economic message to run on. a really good economic message to sell to the american public, and a future economic policy to

promise them, we will keep doing well. do we see kamala harris, or should we see kamala harris focusing on the threat of democracy? or should we see her focusing more toward kitchen table issues like the economy? i ask that because i've gotten

the senses i've been traveling and talking to voters around the country that the people who are worried about democracy, they are already going to vote for the democrat. they have already gotten the democratic party. but the people who were on the fence are the ones who were two old white men. they didn't feel inspired. who felt like they didn't know -- >> law enforcement, and as prosecutor and attorney general in california, we will hear all of that from her. but the other way run for resident is by telling people why it's really important that the other guy not get in, and those are the stakes when it comes to donald trump. and donald trump certainly is proposing some stuff that, economically, is going to provide real fodder for the campaign, this tariff idea that he has, that is going to radically raise prices for all sorts of household goods, for everything that normal people spend money on all over the country.

you know, it's an economic issue that she can use against him. honestly, it's hard to put aside the fact that the last guy -- the last time this guy had the presidency, he cotried o rewho l d hold onto power by force. there's no percentage in that. and so i think vice president harris is good on the issues. in terms of her own -- you know, that she is promising and what she wants to do for the country. donald trump is not running as an incumbent, but he is running as a former president. his record and what he is proposing now and his extreme new running mate, it is all just very, very fertile ground for a unified democratic and newly energized campaign. i feel like for where i am sitting right now, again, looking like a boiled ham -- i'm sorry that i'm not wearing any makeup. i feel like i can hear checkbooks opening and wrists swiveling as donors on the democratic side -- everybody to the left of attila the hun is

now turning to the reality of a new democratic candidate, and a new prospect for keeping donald trump and getting back into the white house. and presumably not leaving for life if that is the way he is leaning and thinking about things. >> is running on a record. he laid out the record. donald trump is running on a record was capped off by his refusal to leave the white house. vice president kamala harris will be running on the record of this white house. at the top of this interview, you mentioned that the united states has an economy that the world envies. that's true. the rest of the world has had a harder time coming out of covid. they've had a much harder time bouncing back. the uk significantly harder time bouncing back. that's why they just decided to throw out the conservatives in the bin just a couple of weeks ago and elect a new labor government for the first time and i think her teen years,

because the economic situation in the uk has been so bad. the exit from the european union was terrible. so when we are doing well, when we have job growth, when we have inflation coming down, prices coming down, when the unemployment record in this country is that near historic lows -- to say that we are at the end of the world is not hyperbole. we are the envy of the world right now economically, and vice president kamala harris does have that record to run on. can she convince americans who don't feel great about the economy, she's going to have a task in front of her to do that. but i guess the argument is that she can do it much better and more forcefully than president biden could. hold on a second. let's bring an nbc news white house correspondent monica alba who's got some fresh reporting for us. monica, what you have? >> katie, i think it's so notable and everything you've been discussing when you talk about the factors that went into this decision for

president biden. we have to remember, he is isolated in delaware with covid, and that's where he has been these last couple of days, having some of these difficult discussions, i'm told, but ultimately, even last night, with some of his closest members of his inner circle, he had told him privately, i understand that he was full speed ahead, that he wanted to continue with this campaign. even this morning, some key white house and biden re- election effort surrogates were on the airwaves saying, this is in a discussion about president biden making a future decision. they had said he had made his decision, and it was to stay in the race. and some of those people didn't even find out about the president changing his mind until just moments before it went out formerly on his own account on social media. that's how closely this was held. katie, i think it's really important to remind our viewers of who was around the president when this was happening these last couple of days, and that is

is real close and immediate family. and in large part, that is because of his covid diagnosis, and also because we knew and had reported that nbc news new this conversation was happening a couple of days ago. that there was this awareness and acceptance of a more reality based conversation that needed to take place about if the president were to leave the race, what it would look like. and the people closest to him, his family reported, were really reporting in the context of wanting to make sure that if this happened, it would be befitting of a public servant who had been in elected office for more than five decades. and that was a really important part of the story. once we knew that that was happening, there was an acknowledgment from within the people who know the president the best, that this was a more than likely possibility. it wasn't talked about is any kind of a foregone conclusion, but the fact that those conversations were even happening tells you a lot, and

it tells you a lot about these last couple of days. we know he has been with the first lady, who by the way is supposed to be going to the paris olympics to be at the opening ceremony in the coming days heading there, so that is something to think about when we are now talking about where president biden will give a largest beach laying out this stinking and getting this formal notice of this decision to the american people. we believe that that will be a speech in the coming days as he hinted at in his letter. but you want to make sure again that so much of this is going to be calculated, according to the people that i've talked to and just spoken with, on his own timeline. there were many around him who were very close to him who still believed that there was more time to that timeline. they felt that they had maybe bought some time with some of these forceful statements. but this decision to be back on the campaign trail, he had said just in a statement on friday, he had pledged to be back talking about project 2025, to be talking about former president trump, now here we

are, 48 hours later, with this very significant decision. something else that happened in the last couple of minutes as we are hearing from former speaker nancy pelosi, who obviously played a very key role behind the scenes in talking to members of the democratic caucus, certainly in talking to people around the white house and expressing her own concerns. we reported about joe biden's path forward here, and notably, she is saying here -- she is praising him as a leader. she's talking about his greatness, and that he will go down, she says in the post on social media, is one of the most consequential presidents in american history. but i think it's interesting there also of what she is not saying, which she isn't endorsing, at least i'll write in those posts, vice president harris the way we have seen president biden do, and the way that we just saw former president bill clinton and former secretary of state hillary clinton or other support formally behind vice

president harris. that is another really key portion to the story and where it goes from here. we know that the president and the vice president did speak earlier today ahead of the announcement. we know that vice president harris is here in washington, d.c. today as she had a mega fundraiser yesterday where she was really praising her own presidents leadership, saying that it was going to be joe biden at the top of the ticket. she was one of the people, and the people around her, who had been told as recently as last night and this morning, there is no change to the thinking. the president fully intends to stay in this race. this was really something that is clearly closely held. it was something the president had reflected on for some time. and remember when he had been asked in the last couple of weeks if there is anything that was going to change his mind on this, initially, he said well, if the lord almighty comes down and asks me to reconsider, i will do that. just a couple of days ago, he is shifted back to some kind of medical condition wasn't known, and his doctors told him to do

that. and now here we are on this day where we know the president did come to that conclusion, ultimately, that for the interest, he says, of his own party and the country, that he is not the person to be the democratic nominee in november. >> he also said he didn't have a path forward, that if he couldn't win, he would step aside. the congressional black caucus has now endorsed kamala harris. i want to talk to rachel about the other statements, but monica, if i could just get you for one more second. do we have any idea about a timeline for when president biden is going to make this announcement in person? is it going to be an oval office address usually reserved for work somber announcements, or potentially something from the rose garden with kamala harris standing beside him, more passing the torch and potentially a celebratory moment? >> we don't know anything specific yet, katie, but the president is supposed to be coming back to washington once he tests negative, and we know

that could happen in the next couple of days but hasn't happened yet. he supposed to be meeting with benjamin netanyahu. that had been a major meeting on the books before his covid diagnosis. he was supposed to be having a couple of other events, so i'm sure they're going to obviously clear the schedule for something is consequence, as you point out. but i know given what we had reported about the family conversations and even amongst some senior staff, they've already begun to map out what that address might look like as early as last week, at least in a very preliminary phase. now begins the real work of putting that into motion. when we do write about this in the history books, the fact that the president has covid is sort of a weird footnote for all of it, because it means he couldn't come out and speak about this today. we understand he is still pretty hoarse, he still has a pretty bad cough according to his own personal doctor. that is also something that is factoring into this in addition to all the incredible factors that have contributed to this. >> you can also say that covid

helped him get elected in 2020, and maybe covid helped to make the decision to step aside in 2024. rachel, let's talk about the statements. monica just mentioned that nancy pelosi didn't endorse kamala harris. mia reed nancy pelosi statement. resident biden is a patriotic american who is always put our country first. his vision values and leadership make him one of the most consequential presidents in american history. with love and gratitude to president biden for always believing in the promise of america giving people the opportunity to reach their fulfillment, god bless america with joe biden's greatness and goodness. what do you think of the lack of harris endorsement? my impression is that this is a moment for joe biden, and that endorsement for harris, if it comes -- it will come after he

beat is given to president biden. some respect and some space. >> yeah, i think that's right, katie. i think that this is a moment to recognize the grace of what joe biden just did. and you know, i am as eager as anybody to think about what this campaign is going to be like in the next 3 1/2 months. i'm interested to see who kamala harris is going to pick to be her running mate, and how the politics shape out around all of the issues and what the democratic convention is going to be like. but actually, right now, i am sort of with nancy pelosi on this in terms of my own feelings, which is, what joe biden has just done has made american history for -- i mean, forever. but it's also one of the most selfless things a president can do. and, you know, even when you think about other presidency chose not to run again, when lbj chose not to run again, it wasn't for a reason like this. it wasn't that he thought he had the best shot at it.

it wasn't anything like that. joe biden absolutely -- we have heard him over the last several weeks -- is absolutely committed to the idea that he needs to finish the job, that he would be the best candidate against trump, that he knows how to run against him, that he has got much more than he wants to get done. we know how he feels about that. and yet, he listen to counsel. he put his ego aside, listen to counsel about what was best for the country, listened to counsel about the risk he was putting the country out in terms of trump potentially returning to power because of his age. purely because of his age, not because of anything else. nancy pelosi is a person of faith. deep catholic faith, and she references that particularly in big moments, and i think you see that in that statement from her today. i will be very surprised if nancy pelosi doesn't soon endorse kamala harris just as every, i think, democratic public life will endorse kamala

harris as the top of the ticket. i think that consolidation will happen rapidly. the fact that it didn't happen instantly, she was marking this incredible act by president biden. i think it's not really a surprise. >> let me just insert a moment of skepticism here, because we had seen reporting the nancy pelosi wanted kind of a mini open convention. she wanted there to be some conversation, public debates between some potential candidates to be at the top of the ticket. this was reported by a number of outlets. she knows how to count the votes. queen of counting the votes. she understands how politics works. she understands how elections work. she's a muscle godmother of the democratic party. she had been arguing that kamala harris needs to be strengthened by a fights. anointing her would weaken her, that she needs to prove herself. could we potentially see nancy pelosi make that argument

publicly? or would it be just too weird for her to go against president biden publicly again after he's already thrown his support behind kamala harris? >> that's the thing. now that president biden has done this, i think it is -- while i think that made sense as an abstraction, now that we are in the lived experience of it and president biden has unequivocally endorsed vice president harris, i think that kind of ends the conversation. maybe we will see dean phillips. was at the guys name? we will see him come back and try to mount a primary campaign here. maybe we will see somebody else say no, it ought to be me. i just find it hard to believe that any democrat who wants to prioritize beating donald trump in november, which i think every democrat does, would now want to start a new process of questioning president biden's endorsement of kamala harris,

and questioning her readiness for the job. again, anything is possible. i've learned not to be surprised anymore ever buy anything. but i would expect that the endorsements for vice president harris will put in a pretty consistent stream over the course of the day and the campaign effectively starts tonight. >> i think 2016 really taught us that message. never really be sure of anything, because the world is much more complicated than you think it is. i have one more question for you. forgive me for hogging all of your time today, all of your afternoon. so we are seeing a lot of statements of support and approval congratulating joe biden on his service, and on this incredibly difficult and brave decision that he is making to step aside. republicans, we are hearing statements that have joe biden can't run for office, then he should step aside. he can't be president. we are hearing a lot of that. from allies of donald trump.

we are not hearing that -- not hearing mitch mcconnell go quite that far, but what do you make of the calls from within the republican party for joe biden to step aside? this is obviously something they will start to campaign on as well. the democrats of been hiding him. he's not healthy enough to run, you can't trust them with the nuclear codes. >> yeah. whatever. i don't mean to be too flippant about it, but i think the republic -- you know, to see a least a phonic out there living with this messaging, it tells you all you need to know about whether or not this is coming from a good-faith place. i think the president biden has done a remarkable thing and choosing not to run for re- election and to instead reinforce his vice president. that is the news of the day. and republicans are going to, you know, pull all sorts of things out of hats to try to prosecute the case against the democratic party, against vice

president harris. they will continue prosecuting the case against joe biden in the remainder of his presidential term. but at this point, i feel like -- if you are under the impression that joe biden wasn't making good decisions and wasn't making hard decisions and wasn't able to take counsel and exhibit the kind of patriotic leadership that we need from an american president, i think today puts that to rest. and you know, if something happens and he is unable to continue as president, i would expect him to step down. but in the absence of something like that emerging, some new fact pattern emerging, i think we now know what is going to happen over these next 3 1/2 month, and i think we know it's going to happen in november. i think the republican party was very, very happy to have donald trump running against joe biden. that's why they were so quiet about joe biden and about this whole fight within the democratic party about his fitness and his age and always rings, because they were just crossing their fingers hoping

that president biden would stay in, because they thought they had it in the bag if they were going to run against him in november, and other plans are completely scrambled. i think we will hear a lot of different messaging from the republican side, this is a bad day for the donald trump campaign. this is when you start thinking, maybe we shouldn't have picked that guy is a running mate. i mean, this is a day of mad scrambling on the republican side. >> listen, you didn't hear from donald trump really at all while this conversation is happening. beside the rnc. the conversation about joe biden's fitness and whether he would stay in the race was happening, donald trump was pretty silent. that tells you everything you need to know about what that side wanted, donald trump and his team wanted. they didn't want to get in the way of joe biden. they wanted him to stay in the race. rachel, i'm going to let you go. you to be back at 7:00 p.m. eastern for the special coverage. i know you will need those hours to think about it and you want to say. i'm excited to tune in and get

a full download of all your thoughts on this incredibly historic day. how many times have you said that just in the last week? this remarkable day. 56 years since this is happened, since a president running for re-election has stepped aside, and the person who will take his place will be somebody who is not nominated in a primary process at the top of the ticket. what a remarkable moment to be alive. rachel maddow. thank you very much. >> i'm glad you're in the chair today, katie. keep going, my friend. >> thank you, i'm going to try. joining us now, julie sirkin. what can you tell us about the conversations that president biden had with lawmakers before this announcement, and then what sort of conversations did he have with them after this announcement? >> i think it is so notable to point out that according to two sources of two different

offices at least, both that are allies of the president or in leadership -- and leader schumer -- president biden had at least attempted to give a heads up to some of his most fervent supporters, to members of leadership here on capitol hill. in the case of , it was apparently that biden was unable to reach an for he made this announcement. they had talked afterwards, i'm told. just as a contract with the campaign you, how quickly this decision came to light, it does appear that he tried to at least give a heads up to those folks on capitol hill. as you point out, some of those flags that you already did, including leader mcconnell statement, pretty much the only republican in a leadership position that is not gone so far as to suggest that president biden cannot serve the remainder of his term as president, then he needs to resign early, i think that is significant. o'connell's influence on the party is waning as he is stepping out of that position. also, fred what we didn't hear from top leadership democrats, and speak including speaker

pelosi, picking jeffries in the house, and of course, the democratic leader in the senate, schumer, which is an endorsement of harris, the woman who president biden had put his backing before somebody was already the vice president. they have not gone so far in their statements, but the senate president pro tem, somebody was in the line as well to take over the presidency should something happen is patty murray of washington. she has been a veteran lawmaker here not only in the senate, but also in the house since the 90s. she said in her statement, we must be donald trump. i know kamala harris can win. i'm behind kamala harris 100%. she's exactly the woman we need to prosecute the fight against donald trump. save democracy. something murray has been a champion of in her own right here in congress tried to force messaging bills and so forth on the senate floor. this is notable that murray has said this. it's also notable that the other leaders have not. but what also is interesting to me here is the democrats

certainly are not united on this path forward. even before this announcement from the president, some of the senate democrats called on president biden to step aside, take senator peter welch of vermont, he has told me previously -- again, not before today -- simply anointing kamala harris, in his words, would not be a good show of democracy for the party. that they should have an open process, an open convention to alleviate some of those concerns that we are seeing and to alleviate what we are seeing the republican say about democrats as well, that they are going over voters heads here, suggesting it is perhaps in the legal process without evidence as well here. as we try to dig into this more, go back to the democrats of already called on by then to exit the race. this is a long road ahead for democrats. >> yeah. thank you very much. joining me now is the president and ceo of vote latino and msnbc contributor. she was on the dnc call this afternoon that this wrapped up

a few moments ago. maria theresa, tell us what you heard on the call. >> i think that's what's really important is to recognize that president biden has been the most consequential president that we have seen. and for him to take this moment and step back and recognize that what is the need for democracy is to open up the states brother democrats shows of a public servant he is. the call was supposed to last three hours. it was supposed to be from 2:00 until 5:00 p.m. eastern. he lasted less than 30 minutes. it was very much about process. making sure all the delegates are seated in time for the convention or they are to vote on august 22nd. i think it's very clear for the audience to understand that the president still has not released his delegates. he has endorsed kamala harris and the expectation is that he will release his delegates to her, but that is not a guarantee, and that is where it really taking a step back and making sure that we are clear on what the next steps are for the democratic party is

incredibly important. but i have to say, everything that the president has done since taking the reins in the administration, providing and prioritizing american families, providing relief for millions of undocumented immigrants, because they are already here for over 10 years and have american spouses, being able to ensure that we are investing infrastructure. he has charted a new course for the united states in the 21st century, and history will show he has been an incredible public servant. what he did today was bold, courageous, and patriotic. >> what is a democratic message under kamala harris when you sound like on immigration? we got the republican message on immigration, mass deportations now, wanting to shut down the border, et cetera. what is it going to sound like in your expectation, under kamala harris? >> i think it's important to say that one of the things that we have seen since the mass deportation signs is that there's a lot of independent white moderate republicans who don't feel comfortable with

that message. because often times, folks don't realize we live in mixed households. meaning that we have loved ones that are not whites. seeing that, i think really made a lot of independence pause and say, as is the party i want to espouse to? i think what we are going to see forward as more of a unified message coming from the democratic party and recognizing that our diversity is our strength. when it came to the mass deportation, everybody recognizes that that is towed for making people who are not white uncomfortable. and i can tell you that having conversations with people across the country since the republican convention, people are weary of what that means, because it is profiling anybody who can have an accent or who looks differently from your typical american. and what to expect from the vice president is her life history. she is of immigrant roots, but more importantly, she's been able to demonstrate that she can serve every american, as a present has in the last 3 1/2

years. my hope is that people focus on the issues at hand and continue showing the contrast that, at the end of the day, what is better for america is being able to have policies that are inclusive and just. >> maria teresa kumar, thank you very much. running is now, former campaign manager and now msnbc political image analyst david cluff. we just got a statement from the office of the obama's. i won't read it in full, but a portion of it, joe biden has been one of america's most consequential presidents as well is a dear friend and partner to me. today, we have also been reminded again that he is a patriot of the highest order. at the end of it, they say we will be navigating uncharted waters in the days ahead, but i have extraordinary confidence that the leaders of our party will be able to create a process from which an outstanding nominee emerges. i believe the joe biden's vision of a generous and prosperous united america provides opportunity for

everyone will be on full display at the democratic convention in august, and i expect that every single one of us are prepared to carry that message of hope and progress forward into november and beyond. david, big question. joe biden passed the reins off to kamala harris, i am not hearing president obama say that. he is saying, i have extraordinary confidence that the leaders of our party be able to create a process from which an outstanding nominee emerges. explain that. >> i think he wanted to focus today joe biden on his consequential presidency, the selfless decision. obviously, they know each other extremely well and have navigated some rocky moments together. i think president obama trust that in the coming days, what will be clear is whether or not there is a so-called open process or not. kamala harris is going to be -- and i think at the end of the day, the dnc will look at what

that process will be. if any other candidates were to suggest they would run, i don't think they would be major threats to kamala harris. i did the general election 2.0 starts today, and that is kamala harris versus donald trump. >> i want to interrupt you, i'm so sorry. i've been told that i need to toss to the nbc today show a craig melvin, who is also it nbc national correspondent. let's listen. >> hey, katie. >> oh, i'm sorry. i was a little bit confused about what my controller was telling me. okay, craig. what have you got for us? >> just some new reporting. a few moments ago, they confirmed that congressman jim clyburn is said to endorse kamala harris here in the next 15 minutes as well. so i think what you are probably starting to see over the next few hours may be established to a certain extent

in deciding that they are going to try and avoid some sort of perhaps jumbled primary, as was rumored in august in chicago. and clyburn, of course, as you talked about over the last hour or two, largely credited with perhaps saving the biden campaign it self, symbolic and substantial that he is the first of the democratic leadership to throw his weight behind the vice president. >> that is a significant endorsement. clyburn was the person who helped joe biden win south carolina. and the nomination. he was also seen as somebody who could potentially be one of the people to break the bad news to president biden that he shouldn't stay in the race. what you know about conversations the two of them have had in private?

>> we know that the congressman traveled with the president recently. when he actually contracted covid. and we also know that there was a conversation had between the two of them. we don't know the content of our conversation, obviously. but we do know that jim clyburn and president biden have been friends for literally four decades. jim clyburn was, as you know, elected to the house in 1994. the first black congressman from south carolina post reconstruction. they developed a legitimate friendship. not a washington friendship, a legitimate friendship in the 90s. and you know, jim clyburn is someone i've covered for a few decades now myself, eddie's old school. he's a man that resets loyalty and tradition and institutions. and so i don't think that it was an accident that you saw him

very publicly over the past seven to 10 days endorsing this president, supporting this president publicly, when a lot of democrats were doing the opposite. and he was -- he is not someone that decrees the spotlight, but we had him on the today show just a few days ago for the first time in a number of years. live in the studio, because he wanted to vocally, publicly back this president. and if you parse the language during the course of that conversation, especially now, the benefit of hindsight, that if you parse the language that he used, he said at this morning as well on msnbc. i support this president. if he decides that he doesn't want to run anymore, and if he wants to support that decision, he he was a friend until the political end, if you will.

>> and will remain a friend, no doubt. did you get a sense of where clyburn believes the party is going? we just got the statement from president obama where he doesn't mention harris. he says the democratic party will be able to create a process from which an outstanding nominee would emerge. this is from president obama. notably not a harris endorsement from him even though president biden had endorsed him and throw his weight behind kamala harris. there's also the reporting out there that nancy pelosi want to the many primary to see the candidates, potential candidates kind of fight it out. and believe that that process would strengthen kamala harris. any idea from congressman clyburn and the people around him whether he believes that is what's going to happen, or is it his sense that the party will stand behind kamala harris and fall in line? >> that's a great question. is a very good question that i posed.

it's unclear. short answer is, at this point in time, he did say that the timing at this point, it's all a blur. at some point over the last 12 days on a cable news show, he did allude to this idea of a jungle primary of sorts in chicago. and i asked about that. it does not appear, based on my conversation, it does not appear that something that he necessarily still endorses. i think there is some thinking that at this point, if enough folks start to throw their weight behind kamala harris, they can avoid that. i don't know how much of it is public, but at least based on conversations that i've had, gavin newsom, gretchen whitmer, some of the other folks who have been bandied about is -- as potential candidates, they

said they don't want to be a part of running against kamala harris. it begs the question, if not, then who? i think that over the next few days, you will probably see more of the clyburn's, you know, i am certainly reluctant to speculate over the pelosi's and all those folks, but i think you will see some of the establishment folks go their way behind the vice president. there are a number of folks who think that president biden deserves to have his moment, especially his candidacy right now it covid in delaware, he deserves to have his time, and at some point, he will address the nation. and i think that there is probably some thinking with regard to that, but i also think there is certainly some strategy behind signaling to donors, especially to voters as

well that if it's not going to be him, and the vice president is our woman. and that is a message that the congressman wants to convey. >> craig melvin, thank you so much for joining us. craig was breaking news there. obviously the congressman clyburn, the date powerhouse, is set to endorse vice president kamala harris as president biden has done. we also have a little bit of reporting from our own about that obama statement and asked why former president obama did not follow his lead in endorsing vice president harris. a source familiar with his thinking shares this. just like you did in 2020, once joe biden earned the nomination, president biden thinks he will be uniquely positioned to help unite the party once we have a nominee. lift up that candidate and do everything he can to get that candidate elected in november. and he adds a bit of context

that, while obama often said supportive things during the former bps candidacy, he did not officially endorse them until's senator bernie sanders ended his candidacy. why does president obama take that position, that he doesn't want to be the scales tip or within the democratic party? >> i think it's important. he wants to focus on joe biden's remarkable record of accomplishment as president, and also this very selfless, patriotic decision. in the next few days, it will be clear what the process is. honestly, that is secondary to the fact that in all certainty, kamala harris will be the nominee. she may offer her own views about whether she thinks others should run. i'm sure she is saying they will. at the end of the day, this is about getting a couple dozen delegates to say publicly that they are for you. so i think the focus for my standpoint -- yes.

there are some particulars and some technocratic things to work out, but the focus needs to be on the general election, which is we are going to be a butt harris trump matchup, and donald trump i still think should be considered a slight favor in that matchup, but kamala harris, i think, really scrambles this race, and i think will create great excitement and enthusiasm, both address the democratic party, but also voters more broadly going to be excited that there is a new matchup here. over a year, voters have said that they were not super excited about this matchup. and i think despite joe biden's great accomplishments as president, this, i think is really going to be a wake-up call for the democratic party, but i think gives a lot of energy to the candidate and the volunteers out there, the grassroots donors. what is required for a democrat to win the presidency? i cannot overestimate how hard it is. most battleground states, there are more conservatives and liberals, and republicans get

more reliable turnout the democrats, although we are starting to match them. when you got them in the middle , and a great turnout, i think what kamala harris allows us to do, using poll after poll. there was another in michigan today showing that it's doing far better than the presidential matchup. i think that gap narrows pretty quickly. i know that donald trump and his campaign say they are ready for kamala harris. i'm sure we will see some nasty ads soon. but this is not the race they plan four. he is showing a lot of decline, a lot of dramatic miss, and i think kamala harris will be able to prosecute this case against donald trump on the economy, on healthcare, on any number of issues quite effectively. >> you just laid out why you believe former president trump has an edge over the democrats still. i wonder, given that, if you were advising vice president kamala harris on her campaign, how she should go about and

whether it should be as much of a focus on the threats to democracy as may be the potential for the economy and the trajectory that the economy has been on with this white house. foreign-policy, talking about abortion. president biden focused so much on democracy and donald trump and convincing voters they cannot vote for donald trump. does vice president harris continue on that track, or does she pivot? >> well, katie, the first time kamala harris lays out her general election campaign message, it's going to be an incredibly important moment. we will learn what she and her team thinks about this. you are running for the presidency, so it is never one thing, and i assume saying, if i lose this election, i will concede to donald trump and engage in peaceful transfer of power. he won't. we might not have another election in this country.

if the republicans win the house and senate, there will be a nationwide abortion ban that he would sign. tens of millions of people would get kicked off healthcare if donald trump is president. kamala harris will increase those healthcare roles. she will cut taxes for workers, donald trump will cut taxes for millionaires. you also have to paint the picture, and i think ultimately where joe biden is leading into the debate with his messaging a few weeks ago was the right place. he is a narcissist. he doesn't care about anybody but himself. settling political scores, investigating political opponents, being focused on yourself is not would help anybody pay their bills, get a job, keep their healthcare. at the end of the day, it is not just one thing. but i think the most important thing is we have to have as many voters as possible. because that's a big universe as well. to make them in a searing way understand what it donald trump presently could mean for them in the family or a kamala

harris presidency, i think that is a matchup we can win. i don't want to overstate trump's advantage, but it is there. he's a couple of points stronger than he was a '16 or '20, that we may see some of that naturally change. this is going to be a dead heat race. and i do think a more energized democratic party and volunteers and grassroots people, you know, spending time and really getting motivated matters. g mo. more energized democratic party and volunteers and grassroots people, you know, spending time, really getting motivated matters. that is what it takes reto win presidential race on the democratic side. >> david, thank you so much for joining us. i want to welcome in my colleague, who has joined us gu for this breaking news. it is the top of the hour, 4:00 in new york city. what an incredible day, 56 years, that is the