that does it for us on the start of a big news week. joy reid is next with a special edition of "the reidout," project 2025 exposed. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> and again, christians, get out and vote. just this time.

you won't have to do it anymore, four more years, it will be fixed. it will be fine. you won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful christians. i love you christians. i'm a christian. i love you. get out, you got to get out and vote. in four years you don't have to vote again. we'll have if fixed so good you won't have to vote. >> do you believe if donald trump were elected next year, he would try to stay in office beyond a second term? that he would never leave office? >> there's no question. >> you think he would try to stay in power forever? >> absolutely. >> the stakes could not be higher. trump says if he wins, you won't have to vote anymore. tonight, we are laying out the dangers of project 2025. the manifesto that would give him that authoritarian power, limit your rights, and force you and your family to change the way you live your life. >> and we begin this special

episode of "the reidout" tonight with a dire warning for our democracy. over the next hour, i will lay out the greatest threat to the american democratic experiment in modern times. and it's called project 2025. with just 99 days until election day, and with voting starting a lot sooner than that in some states like pennsylvania, where early voting begins in september, it is imperative that every american understand what project 2025 is about and how it would affect every single one of us if it was ever enacted. tonight is just the first of many nights where we will dig into this dangerous plan. and i really want you to listen, learn, take notes, and share it with everyone you know. and if you look on your screen, you'll notice that qr code with you can find our segments on project 2025 so you can share them. so let's start with the basics. this is the 922-page maga

manifesto. we printed the whole thing occupant, and it's brought to you by one of the most conservative think tanks, the heritage foundation. this is the culmination of nearly 50 years of work that began during the reagan administration. broadly, according to heritage, to heritage president kevin roberts, this is a christian nationalist plan to end what he calls the great awokening and, quote, rescue our kids, reclaim our culture, revive our economy, and defeat the anti-american left at home and abroad. this manifesto, which they call a book, is a specific road map on how to accomplish that, by giving a republican president unprecedented power. they do that by slashing the federal government's footprint, gutting regulations, slashing the money we spend on children, students, the elderly, the environment, education, and reproductive health care. every single chapter describes

in excruciating detail how to reorder our society by dismantling federal agencies and limited the federal government's ability to help protect you, the american people, from predatory businesses, excessive taxes, poisoned air and water, you name it. lately, former president donald trump and his campaign fearful of how unpopular project 2025 is, have claimed they have nothing to do with it. >> i don't know what the hell it is, project 2025. he's involved in project -- and they read some of the things. they are extreme. i mean, they're seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. i don't want to know anything about it. >> yeah, but that's not the complete picture. here is trump promoting the heritage foundation and their little project just two years ago. >> heritage does such an incredible job. they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for

exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do when the american people give us a colossal mandate to save america. that's coming. that's coming. >> here's the other truth. roughly 140 individuals who worked in trump's administration are affiliated with project 2025, including six former cabinet secretaries and four people who were nominated as ambassadors by trump. the others were either key figures from his first transition, close oval office allies, or mid-level agency officials. there's russell vogt, who wrote chapter two in the section titled taking the reins of federal government. in this chapter, he lays out how to consolidate power around a president's political vision. he explains how you can bypass congress and only fund projects that insure consistency with the

president's agenda. he is rumored to be trump's choice for chief of staff. and according to politico, he and trump speak once a month. he hopes his close relationship with trump will elevate christian nationalism as a focal point of a second trump administration. then there's roger severino, a former trump administration doj official who wrote chapter 14, about the department of health and human services and how to restrict abortion access across the country. severino is a dogmatic antiabortion militant who strongly believes that an america that allows abortion cannot survive. >> the federal government has an absolute role in this. there cannot be now two americas. one america where unborn life is protected and another where unborn life is treated as medical waste. that is untenable. this has to be settled nationally. a house divided against itself cannot stand. we can't have two classes of

americans. >> in project 2025, he advocates for using the regulatory powers of the department of health and human services, the food and drug administration, and the department of justice and the national institutes of health to end access to mifepristone, prohibit stem cell research, and create, quote, pro-life task forces in -- a pro-life task force in the white house. there's also richard haninea, who helped contribute to project 2025. he's not a recognizable name, but he's a popular conservative activist with fans like jd vance, peter thiel, and elon musk, who just so happens to be a noted racist and sexist. the huffington post reported that he used a fake pen name to write articles and social media posts that expressed support for eugenics and forced sterilization of, quote, low-iq

people, whom he argued were most often black. and he dreamed about a white awakening, which is when whites en masse realize they're superior to nonwhites and that they would be better off abandoning multiracial democracy for something resembling a whites-only ethnostate. while those guys are cooking up plans for how the government would work and who it would work for, john mcintee, trump's former body man and former director of his personnel office, is working with project 2025 to build the enforcement army. he's currently a senior adviser at 2025 with the single task of creating a resume database of dedicated maga warriors to staff up every agency. well, the ones they don't shutter completely like the department of education on day one. here's what he wrote when he took the job. quote, the presidential personnel database will be of

extraordinary value for the 47th president because we are doing a lot of the incoming administration's most important work ahead of time, unquote. then there is trump's running mate, senator jd vance, a self-described radicalized republican who is a champion of kevin roberts and his plan to turn the heritage foundation into the de facto institutional home of trumpism. here is vance and roberts together on a panel last year at an event hosted by the intercollegiate institute, which is a conservative organization for college students. this particular discussion was about regime change and the future of liberalism. guess what else? kevin roberts has a book coming out in september, and jd vance wrote the foreword to that book in which he praises roberts' vision for america. he also wrote, we are now all realizing that it's time to circle the wagons and load the muskets. in the fights that lay ahead,

these ideas are an essential weapon. vance's current political ideology lined up pretty succinctly with that of project 2025 and his backing of kevin roberts along with his frequent appearances on tucker carlson's talk show might explain why he is on the trump ticket. this clip from his senate campaign run might also have helped, too. >> i think that what trump should do, if i was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant, replace them with our people. i think we have to do the hard work of institution building. and again, i have friends who are working on this very problem right now, such that if there is a trump administration round two, or a desantis or hawley administration, we actually have the bureaucracy in place so that person can govern effectively and not be constantly undercut. >> trump, vance, future staffers, future administration

officials, and all of his former employees support parts or all of project 2025. do we really think they would not implement these ideas if given the chance? up next, i will detail for you explicitly the things they intend to do from redirecting how we see ourselves socially, how we build our society, how we get by, and most importantly, and the one i worry about the most, how they will completely end how government functions. leaving a less safe, less prosperous, less free country for the majority of americans. and research on pain relief, my recommendation is simple: every home should have salonpas. powerful yet non-addictive. targeted and long-lasting. i recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ hisamitsu ♪

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easily transfer your services in the xfinity app. bring on the good stuff. when you go to the polls in this country as a parent, you should have more power. you should have more of an ability to speak your voice in our democratic republic than people who don't have kids. let's face the consequences and the reality. >> on its face, you just saw another viral clip of jd vance being weird about americans needing to have more babies. but this position which is blatantly anti-democratic, captures how future leaders of a second trump administration likely define family in the first place. project 2025 is rooted in christian nationalism. the architects want to change the framework of our society to restore the family as they understand it, as the centerpiece of american life.

and their version of family is defined ipa very specific way. where only white christian men have power, and they get to exercise it over how their wives and children and the rest of us exist in the world. the sole purpose of women iptheir perfect society, is to, of course, have babies. even if it kills them. abortion is mentioned 199 times in the project 2025 manifesto. as part of the project wish list, republicans are calling to regulate pregnancy and abortion by misinterpreting a law known as the comstock act. it doesn't stop there. project 2025 also calls for gutting protections for the lgbtq community by stripping away federal nondiscrimination protections and eliminating all transgender health care under medicare and medicaid. joining me now is robert p. jones, president and founder of the public religion research

institute and author of the hidden roots of white supremacy, and kellen robinson, president of the human rights campaign and former executive director of the planned parenthood action fund. i'm having you represent both organizations in some ways and also just talk about this from an activist point of view and a civil rights point of view, the threats to women. abortion was not mentioned at the rnc convention, but it's mentioned here, and it is in jeopardy. women are in jeopardy. >> they wanted us to forget they had taken credit for overturning roe v. wade. the scary thing is when you look at so much of project 2025, they're using certain communities as scapegoats as ways to resign all of us. doesn't that sound a lot like the fugitive slave act. doesn't it sound a lot like what they intend to do for trans people trying to get health care. what we have understand is all of this is connected. it's a scary plan, a dangerous one. when you look at some of their

strategies, it's flat out creepy how they want to control our lives. >> men would be in jeopardy, too. if you're transporting a woman across state lines, you, too, would be in jeopardy. men have daughters, sisters, wives. this is a plan to essentially handmaid's tale this country by force. i want to talk to you, because you're such a great guy with the data and you know this data inside and out. this is a very tiny percentage of the american people who are hyperright wing christians. i'm a christian. i grew up in the church. but this is not christianity as most of us practice it. how small is this group of people that would be exercising power over the rest of us? >> well, the good news for our democracy is that two-thirds of the country rejects this vision. it's about 3 in 10 americans who identify, who can be identified as christian nationalists either adherents or sympathizers to this world view you described fairly well. but two-thirds of the country does not, but it's also

two-thirds of white evangelicals that do embrace this, it's a majority of republicans. so it's wildly out of step with mainstream america, but it is at the heart of the maga movement that's fueled by white evangelical protestants and that you see all the way into this document. >> when you hear donald trump say don't worry, christians. just vote this one time, you'll never have to vote again, what did you hear? >> you know, it's remarkable that trump -- this is even a remarkable thing to say, the most extreme things trump says, he tends to say for white christian audiences. that statement about he could walk down fifth avenue and shoot someone, that was at an evangelical college he made that statement. i don't think this is hyperbole. i think like this document, we're getting in real time a telegraphed statement about what they intend to do. it's an authoritarian, white christian nationalist vision. where as you said, it's white christian men at the top of the power pyramid. the word order appears over and

over. an ordered society, a well ordered society. ordered liberty. all that is code for hierarchy. this old 19th century vision that has this ancient, older vision of a white christian america really baked into the center of it. >> what do you find the most alarming and frightening, the thing you want people to know about top of mind? >> how they are using the federal government to institutionalize bigotry. structurally. the idea he would come into office and fire nearly a million federal workers, career workers, right? that's scary. then input foot soldiers that would carry out his will. the idea they want to turn the health and human services agency into the department of life, and charge it with promoting heterosexuality as the quote/unquote ideal family unit and then attach federal benefits to those criteria. that's scary. i think ultimately here, we're not just talking about policies or impacting specific communities, though that's laid

out clearly, but what we're talking about is the undermining of democracy. he's even saying out loud, if you vote for him in this election, that could be the last election you have to vote for. as dr. maya angelou said, if someone tells you who they are, believe them. >> the first time. what alarms you the most? >> there's two sentences out of all this 900 pages that were the most chilling for me to read. i'm going to read them. they said, an individual must be free to live as his creator ordains in order to flourish. our constitution grants each of us the liberty to do not what we want but what we ought. now, who gets to define that ought? the very next sentence gives us a clue. the pursuit of the good life is found primarily in family, marriage, children, thanksgiving dinners and the like. the other 900 pages, that's in the foreword. the other 900 pages really are about that 1950s norman rockwell vision of a white christian

america with white christian men and their heterosexual marriages up here and everybody else knowing their women, what are t alarming things. the comstock act looms pretty large. you could use it in more ways than to just stop abortion. >> this is going to fundamentally reshape american life for women in this country. you can see all of that laid out in project 2025. it clearly calls for national ban on abortion. they intend to make that the reality. also, the ways they're defining heterosexuality and the ideal family unit, they're trying to put provisions in place to control us and our decisions. this trad wife, this housewife trend they're trying to promote, that's power and control over women's lives. let's be clear, everything we enjoy today as our normal way of being, from being able to go to work, to raise your kids in the way you choosz, to have a partner you decide and pick, all of that they're saying they want the government to control it.

so let's be clear. this is a dangerous, dangerous document that's laying out exactly what they plan to do. >> yeah, robert p. jones, kelly robinson, thank you both very much. up next, how project 2025 will entirely change the way our society is constructed, especially the extreme plans for immigration. don't go anywhere. e. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you're taking certain medicines which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions,

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one of donald trump's first orders as president, barring citizens and refugees from seven mostly muslim countries from entering the united states, was met with shock and acrimony nationwide, leading thousands of people to block airport entrances in protest. today, 99 days out from the election, the right's views on immigration as detailed in project 2025 pushes the envelope even further. it includes calls for using the military for inland deportations. aka camps, terminating the legal status of 500,000 dreamers, and consolidating several key federal agencies into a single stand-alone border and immigration agency at the cabinet level. the manifesto also details an assault on the workplace.

it severely restricts the ability for labor to organize, stripping vital workers rights, including allowing minors to work in dangerous conditions with fewer protections. and erasing dei initiatives in favor of so-called merit based hiring. joining me now is jarron keith gainer, white house correspondent and the manager editor of politics at the grillo, and cristobal alex, civil rights lawyer, former senior adviser to the biden/harris campaign and founding president of the latino fund. these immigration plans are radical. describe what you think is the most egregious. >> where to begin? you have 925 pages there. what's shocking to me, first, campaigns are generally about the future. what we're seeing in this booklet, this manifesto, is taking us back, reversing fundamental rights, attacking government the way you described

it earlier. when it comes to immigrant right, it should be called project 1825. attacking dreamers, one of the things the biden/harris administration did was protect sensitive areas where immigrants are, so under a trump administration, you saw mass raids and deportation efforts. they stopped at schools, hospitals, inland. they want to bring all of that back. and what's also most egregious here, not necessarily what's in the document but who's behind it, stephen miller, the architect of one of the cruelest anti-immigrant policies, the ripping of babies from their mothers, all that comes back. >> along with concentration camps, mass deportation camps. let's talk about the fixation of this plan, which is to end any sort of support for people of color. ending dei, ending any race-based initiatives. talk about that. >> i checked, and equity is mentioned at least 90 times in project 2025. it says it wants to literally delete the word race, diversity,

equity, and inclusion, essentially, we have already been seeing this take place on the legal front. we saw the lawsuit for black farmers be thrown out. we saw the mbda federal agency that would close the racial equity for business owners, and so this document really prescribes what a future trump/vance administration would look like. and it's very troubling because i have talked to many members of the cbc, for example, and they say this is a gift for us, this is a gift from maga because it's so pure evil in the words of congresswoman frederica wilson. >> that's the minority business development agency. that means black and women owned businesses and latino owns businesses could no longer get federal money. they would redirect the federal government to assist white americans only. project 2025 contributors who

are tried to white nationalist ideas. we counted, usa today piece counted at least four of them. corey stewart, michael antawn, whose name has come up before in this vein, and a guy named jason richwine. you have people who have connections to at least white supremacist ideas. >> it's troubling. we have seen this sort of already coming. we saw hints of this really when president obama was in office. we saw the census data that showed that america was browning. there would be a majority black and brown united states of america, and then what happened? we had the rise of donald trump, who not only called for the president, the sitting president to prove that he was a citizen, he called for mass deportations to build a border wall. this has been a setup for many years up until this point, and it's really troubling. >> the other piece is workers rights. allowing states to gut national

overtime and minimum wage laws, meaning littling your time to work a day, repealing labor and wage protections for workers, restricting unemployment insurance. so don't lose urjob under a second trump administration. allowing minors to work in dangerous conditions with fewer protections and we know a lot of minors who are working in those conditions right now are undocumented kids. >> exactly right. this is really an attack in some ways on immigrants, on latinos, hispanics, people of color, and the way i think about it is, it comes down to freedom. they're trying to take away our freedom. and we want to protect it. and really, the anecdote to this at the end of the day is making sure we elect kamala harris because what trump and vance will do is take away our rights. make it so that the rich get richer. the children won't have the same protections as they do now. workers won't either. >> let me read just a little bit of michael anton said. he wrote in an essay in 2016, the ceaseless importation of

third world foreigners with no tradition for, taste, or experience in liberty means the electorate grows more left, less traditionally american with every cycle as does the u.s. population. this is essentially white replacement theory. >> it's written right in there for you. and we saw a little preview at the rnc. and choosing vance, many people thought this is a doubling down on the white nationalist agenda. someone who is actually connected to white nationalists and that right christian ideology. >> go ahead. >> i saw speech from vance the other day attacking immigrants, calling for mass deportations. this is a man who hates hispanic immigrants as much as he loves couches. and that's a scary thing. >> and his wife happens to be of an immigrant background herself. >> thank you both very much. coming up, how project 2025 creates a society of winners and losers. we'll be right back.

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. in project 2025, there are clear winners and losers. the winners are the billionaires who would reap the benefits of a complete restructuring of the u.s. tax code. and the losers are the rest of america who would be the ones footing the bill. if you think donald trump's 2017 tax cuts for the super rich were bad, well, project 2025 aims to

cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations even more, while low and middle class americans would see their taxes go up. just take a look at how economic analyst steve rattner broke it down on "morning joe." >> it would actually increase the amount that people making less than $150,000, less than that cut-off, pay, they would pay more taxes. but people above, the wealthy, would pay dramatically less taxes. if you're in the $400,000 a year, you get a tax cut of about $14,000. >> if implemented, project 2025 would also slash federal programs that help families and individuals who are struggling. with plans that include making it harder for the 40 million plus americans who are s.n.a.p. or food stamps to qualify for those benefits. eliminating free pre-k, reducing free school lunches for kids, making massive cuts to medicaid,

ending president biden's student loan forgiveness program, not to mention weakening the environmental protection agency and diverting focus completely away from the climate crisis. which would set future generations up for even greater climate disaster. joining me now is ali velshi, msnbc chief correspondent and host of velshi. and olivia juliana, activist and digital strategist. i want to start with you olivia. your generation is right in the bull's eye of this. if you increase taxes on people who make $150,000 and less, you're talking about all of gen z. >> that's happening at a time where a lot of young people living in these republican controlled states are already not seeing their wages being increased by their legislatures to match the number of inflation. so raising taxes without people having higher wages, without the affordability crisis of housing going down, and without the cost of education going down. so it's just kind of attack on attack for young people when it

comes to affordability, and being able to start their lives as productive adults coming into adulthood. >> and this has been an obsession of the right for a really long time. to make the people at the bottom foot more of the bill and to essentially remove taxes from the super rich. >> yeah, and it's completely outlined in here and done in a few ways. you mention it not just with respect to the tax code, but you talk about climate. the same thing. they are eliminating anything that would feel like a penalty or a disincentive to go down this road of fossil fuels, eliminating fossil fuels and would reward fossil fuels. it speaks clearly about the fact we're going back to a fossil fuel based economy. so this is a big windfall, not just to the wealthy but to the industries that many of us would have hoped would be more regulated. this is basically a guide book to deregulating things for businesses. it's across the whole document,

a terrible read, joy. i know you have a copy. it's terrible. it's really hard to make sense of, but littered through this thing is this idea that regulation is coming in the way of unfettered economic success for the wealthy in this country, so there should be no redistribution of the wealth. right now, the average ceo makes 190 times what the average worker makes. 190 times. and basically, this document says, that's not enough. why d we let everybody make as much money as they can make at the top of the pile, and everybody else has to follow the rules. it is -- it's very clear here, and i bow most people are not going to read a 900-page document, but the point here is that you don't read it, you think it's okay to vote for these guys. you vote for them. they do this, and when you say why is this happening, they'll say we wrote it all down. >> yeah, and olivia, this is one of the things i think is important to point out. you have a lot of young voters who unaffordability is their main voting issue and one thing turning them off from potentially re-electing

president biden. now what this document says is we're going to make it even more unaffordable between tariffs that tax everything you buy, gutting union protections and even taking away things from people who do have kids like free school lunch. and should i mention, i'm sorry, i left off student loan forgiveness. millions of people who got relief. >> millions of people, which are already seen those efforts try to be blocked by the supreme court. like, we have good, tangible policy that's been put forward, prioritizing young people, which has been a huge part of the biden/harris administration thus far that is actively being rolled back and stripped back, outlined in this plan on top of the attacks they want to put forward. affordability in general is education costs haven't gone down and people are struggling with that, but also part of this is getting rid of the department of education. getting rid of things like pell grants. i benefitted from those programs passed by the government, and there are millions of young people just like me who have benefitted and been able to become successful because of good policy.

and it's not just rolling back recent things like the american climate accord, these investments from the inflation reduction act that president biden signed into law, but going back even further than that to things passed when my dad was a kid. i think young people are acutely aware of that and that's kind of being reflected in the voter registration numbers. >> ali velshi, you did a special on this on your wonderful weekend show, and you have been through this document. what is the most frightening and alarming thing to you as an econ guy. >> at the top of the show, abortion is mentioned about 200 times in here. there's no national abortion ban in this thing. you can say there's no national abortion ban. it's that concept of let's send it back to the states. what this is all about the deregulating of america in a way that allows the most extreme positions to take hold. put aside abortion, whatever you think about abortion, the abortion example is the clearest. it's going to deregulate

climate, deregulate the department of education, so where we try and fix, it's going to deregulate the ability of the department of justice to have a consent decree when people shoot people they shouldn't shoot. as long as you succeed in a country hat has no rules, knock yourself out. if you're one of the hundreds of millions of americans who need protections because society is fundamentally unequal here, you're out of luck. >> government for the rich and by the rich. and only for the rich. ali velshi, olivia juliana, thank you. when we come back, how project 2025 will attack the doj and fbi to entirely change the way our government functions. dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution

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in many ways, the most frightening part of project 2025

is a way it will radically transform every part of the federal government into an army of trump officials. that is laid out right from the start. dismantle the administrative state and return self- governance to the american people. in plain english, the administrative state means civil servants, government employees, people who deliver our mail, keep our food and water safe, who work in airports and national parks and make sure your grandma gets her social security checks. regular american workers. the project 2025 and donald trump, civil servants are public enemy number one, and the target of what is likely the most possible of all project 2025 plans. the main goal, reinstate a 2020 trump executive order called schedule f that makes it easier to fire workers not aligned with his agenda and use it to purge tens of thousands of career civil servants and replace them with trump loyalist. donald trump has made very clear that that is his plan.

>> first, i will immediately reissue my 2020 executive order risk during the president's authority to remove rogue bureaucrats, and i will wield that power very aggressively. >> one place he will do exactly what he said is at the department of justice. for 2025 plans to completely end the departments independence. quote, while the supervision of litigation is a doj was on stability, the department falls under the direct supervision and control of the president of the united states as a component of the executive branch, adding that litigation decisions must be made consistent with the president's agenda. the same would apply to the fbi. quote, the director of the fbi must remain politically accountable to the president. joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama school of law, and msnbc legal analyst, and justice

correspondent for the nation. thank you both for being here. explain and just regular real- world terms what it would mean to take over the doj and the fbi, and what it would do to this country. >> sure. so it would, in essence, mean that criminal justice, the power of prosecutors, would now be a tool that presidents could use. they can force investigation and prosecution of their enemies. they could terminate prosecutions or investigations into people who are their allies. in other words, instead of the justice department being the crown jewel of our system of democracy, it would be just another political tool to be wielded by a president. >> there is also, when you go through some of these items, prosecute, quote, voter registration fraud and unlawful ballot correction. reorganize and refocus the civil rights division of the justice department. lemonade, quote, lawless policies and all existing consent decrees.

you could go on and on and on. including enforce the dental the death penalty more aggressively. your thoughts. >> project 2025 is how he is going to do it. while trump tries to sometimes disavow and pretend like he doesn't know anything about this project, that was the forward written by his vice presidential candidate, the person who rate the doj section is a manning dean hamilton. he's the right hand man of unreconstructed ghoul stephen miller, who is most likely going to be donald trump's pick for ag. so this entire section here is how stephen miller will metastasize the justice department into, instead of fighting for freedom, instead into an organization that fights for jim crow. when you talk about his changes to the civil rights division, what you are literally talking about is changing the civil rights division into an organization that sues on

behalf of aggrieved whites who claim that they are being racially targeted by policies like decker city equity and inclusion. it is literally a way to criminalize -- not just make it a culture war, to criminalize dei practices in an attempt to make the world safe for mediocre white people like stephen miller. >> i want to play donald trump. he recently talked about police immunity. they are making an appeal to black voters based on donald trump being a felon. at the same time, he says things like this on the rally stage. >> we are going to give immunity to police so they can do their job. giving federal immunity to police officers. it's good. >> joyce, that sounds like a recipe for allowing much more violence, and we are already the most violent country in the world and having a pandemic of

police executions of people, including unarmed people. >> we should be absolutely clear about what he is talking about. he is talking about ending federal prosecutors ability to prosecute excessive force cases. you know, sometimes those cases do get prosecuted are state counterparts. but in many ways, that is only because everyone knows that at the end of the day, doj is there with the big stick, and doj will prosecuted the state doesn't. and that force that doj has in that space, but also more than likely ending civil practices, the pattern or practice cases that are used to reform some of the worst police abuses. in other words, it is open season. this is donald trump, who during his first term told police officers not to be too careful when they put people that they arrested into their vehicles. this is that sort of mentality

on steroids. >> with sonja massey barely in her glatt grave, the 36-year- old black woman who was murdered by a police officer for invoking the name of jesus near her stove. then he read a little bit of the plan to transform the justice department civil rights division. other federal enemies have been striving affirmative discrimination in all aspects of his operations under the guise of equity. federal agencies and their components of established so- called diversity equity, and inclusion offices to become the vehicles for unlawful disc termination. talk to me a bit about how the supreme court would -- the supreme court majority, which he read a lot about, allie, would work with something like this. >> yeah, one of the real interesting things i find with project 2025 is that there is no section on the supreme court, right? and the reason why there is no section on the supreme court is because they already have it. they've already captured it. so project 2025 is looking to make the doj work hand-in-hand with the supreme court, which

is already gutted the voting rights act, which is already guided affirmative action, literally made it illegal. and again, if you go back to this section, his creator, stephen miller, what has he been doing since the affirmative action decision? he's been going around threatening to sue schools who, and it any black people, right? because the idea is not to get rid of affirmative action. it is to presumptively say that any black or brown student in a major university must have gotten there because of affirmative action, notwithstanding the fact that people like me could test people like stephen miller into the ground. notwithstanding that, everybody is apparently suspect, right? he has been literally threatening to sue schools to admit black people. and with project 2025, if you give stephen miller the doj, that is exactly what is going to happen, only it's going to come with the power and force a federal prosecution instead of his ghoulish little private law firm. >> last word to you on this, joyce.

he threatened to prosecute people he deems his enemies. could he do that without even having to have a grand jury under this plan? >> you know, he can't. in our system, you got to keep these cases with a grand jury. but there's an old saying that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. and getting past the grand jury, they stand up and he refused to indict? that is something to people who are intent on manipulating the evidence might be able to get away with. those cases would then have to proceed in front of a federal judge, in front of a jury of the defendants peers and through the appellate system in the courts. and joy, i think our system is still strong enough to stand up to that. >> joyce vance, thank you both very much. that is tonight reed out. you can see more of our project 2025 segments. he sure to share them widely with your family and friends. ask for joining us.