hi, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. i'm michael steele in for nicolle wallace. vice president kamala harris's run for the white house is about ten days old. and the big question for team harris in their second week, how do they keep the momentum going after raising $200 million, signing up hundreds of thousands of volunteers, and shaking up the race by firing up democratic voters. well, the answer to that in part is a $50 million ad buy. the campaign's first television ad and it issen titled "fearless" and highlights her career as a prosecutor. >> the one thing that kamala harris has always been, fearless. as a prosecutor, she put murderers and abusers behind

bars. as california's attorney general, she went after the big banks and won $20 billion for homeowners. and as vice president, she took on the big drug companies to cap the cost of insulin for seniors. because kamala harris has always known who she represents. >> this campaign is about who we fight for. >> we believe in a future where every person has the opportunity not just to get by, but to get ahead. where everyone could retire with dignity. but donald trump wants to take our country backwards. to give tax breaks to billionaires and big corporations and end the affordable care act. but we are not going back. >> i'm kamala harris, and i approve this message. >> tonight the vice president visits georgia with a large rally featuring rapper megan thee stallion.

she's seeking to capitalize on the the burst of energy surrounding her campaign to put georgia back in play. the atlanta journal constitution reports a little more than a week ago, georgia appears to be slipping out of the democrats' reach. joe biden pledged to concentrate on holding the blue wall states and indicated they might be willing to forget sun belt battlegrounds but now kamala harris is the likely nominee, they have new hope. team trump is not taking any of this quietly. unveiling a tv ad of their own hitting harris for her past positioned and statement and calling her dangerous liberal. "the new york times" reports the harris campaign will rebut most of the attacks by arguing that they are exaggerating or lying about her record. her came plans to lean into her record as a local prosecutor and

state attorney general to burnish her image as a candidate with deep ties to law enforcement. that is where we start today with the executive director republican voters against trump and publisher of the bulwark, sarah longwell is here. plus former rnc spokesperson and host of the bulwark podcast, tim miller. and msnbc political analyst and democratic strategist cornell belcher and here with me at the table in the house for the hour, the host of the on brand podcast donnie deutsche. welcome, everybody. so we're going to have some fun with this one. and cornell, i'll start with you. i want you to tell us what does the harris campaign need to do to keep that momentum going? because you know there is a wall out there somewhere. how do they keep it going and what do they do when they hit that wall? >> well, i'm going to be a debbie downer and say that i don't think -- i don't think the

goal is to keep the momentum going. because that is a tough thing to do. i think momentum is natural. i think you're going to see that in the grassroots. and when you look at the grassroots, that wasn't created, michael, at the campaign by some smart consultant. that was created at the grass roots with people online making memes and making videos. that is organic. but what the campaign must do is what you see them doing right now. and as i said this before, the vice president is -- is known, she has name i.d., but people don't know her story. and what i think the first ad does, messaging are stairs, you don't start off where you end. but they are telling the basics of her story and what she's been fighting for and who she's been fighting for and how it defined her. so this is the opening salvo to deepen voters' understanding who

she is and that they need to build up on the next couple of months. i think it is a good opening ad and establishing her credibility and her bonafide and telling voters who she is before the republicans can define her. >> so donnie, to cornell's point, it is less about the momentum and more about the branding right now. momentum will take care of itself, but the branding is critical. as a branding guy, you have the prosecutor and the felon. everybody seems to love that theme. is that something that holds up? what do you think. >> everything is about contrast. it is ironic that trump said the other day whether asked about debating her, i don't know if people know us both pretty well. no, they know you. they don't know her and that is the good news. she's a blank piece of paper. she'll have to answer for some of the things in the past, when she was running in the primaries, but she has a blank piece of paper. and the key words in the ad were we're not looking backward.

tomorrow versus yesterday, fresh versus stale. and i think there is so much to work with there that i think this is a good introduction, we saw something -- it is not earth shattering, meat and potatoes but a lot of good blocking and tackles. >> good images. >> it is all there. the prosecutor thing is going to continue to be a main, main selling point. for anybody that wants to paint her too liberal, it brings her back to the middle, prosecutor and crime stopper. i think we're off to a good beginning. i do think, i'm going to challenge cornell, i think you can keep the momentum going. because trump is so -- such an old story at this point, the media just naturally goes to what do we have here. this is a new thing here. >> right. >> and there is a lot of excitement with that. >> there is a lot of excitement, but there also, sarah, a little bit of danger. so now you have two scenarios that we've set up here. we have the momentum scenario and the branding scenario. you got the focus groups. you got focus groups of swing

state voters out there. here is some of what they said about kamala harris. let's take a listen. >> it seems like the younger generation, they are more likely to vote for harris over biden. that's just the vibe that i get based on what being posted online and based on what being shared on social media. >> i just feel like it will be a breath of fresh air. like a new beginning instead of feeling like you're watching a rerun because trump has already been in office. you know what i'm saying. so we already know how that went. i feel like harris would definitely bring a new kind of dynamic to her ideas, you know, where she thinks the world is going, where she wants to take the world and in the next four years. >> she's quick witted and funny and has personality. obviously being a female, there are people that don't want to vote for a female president. i think those same people are ones that would not vote for

biden either. >> so how does the momentum and the branding influence these voters and what do you hear as a result of what harris has done so far? >> well, look, the swing voters have been sort of the most depressed group, as i've talked to hem over the last year. there is a reason we called them the double haters. they did not like either of their choices. so like you heard in some of the clips, what we hear from a lot of the voters is just elation at the notion of having a new choice. what we're talking about people not knowing kamala harris, that is true. for a long time, among swing voters, she's had a negative impression. but the negative impression wasn't based on anything in particular other than people felt like they didn't see her, they didn't know her, they didn't know what she was about or what she did. so people right now are saying let me hear your pitch. i want to know. i want to know what you're about and what you stand for.

and so i think this is an opportunity to really reintroduce herself or almost introduce herself for the first time to some degree, to these voters. and i think that the swing voters, you know, who -- the double hater thing was always interesting because they did hate donald trump. but they didn't hate joe biden as much, just think he was too old. and so now the question is, is will they look at kamala harris and say, you know, i could get there on her. which is why the definition is so important. because if trump is able to define her as a san francisco liberal and the thing about the swing voters, their center right. and their in sort of center right-ish states. so that progressive san francisco and that could be killer and so i think she's got to pivot away from that pretty quickly as she does this reintroduction. because she's got then enthusiasm from the base. she only has 100 days and she has to figure out how to win over swing voters.

>> to that point, tim, you heard how this narrative is evolving around branding and momentum and the definition. the harris campaign is certainly positioning the vice president as a candidate of change, the change candidate. you hear it in the message when they say we are not going back. how big of a deal is that for the campaign to press that -- that idea of change in the branding of this candidate, the definition of her going forward and the momentum piece that they're trying to keep going on dollars, voter turnout, excitement, et cetera. >> i think it is important. i'm switching roles with cornell. it was a month where i was the debbie downer and now i get to be on the other side of it. >> both of you have been killing me over the last month. >> i think it is potential for momentum. we're a polarized country. we could wake up next week and

she's up 55-45. i think there is increased momentum in polls and in dollars. she has a vice presidential pick next week that is going to speak to this question of both momentum and brand and say something about her brand, who she chooses for the vice president and then have a convention on the heels of that with which she could further define her brand. so there is a long runway here where she's center stage for a few weeks. and i think that as long as she continues to run the type of campaign we've seen for the first week, there is room to grow with the types of voters sarah was talking about. and a former republican that i see for her is all of the excitement that we've been talking about with the base, to give us her a little bit more room to wiggle. she doesn't -- she's not in a primary. she's doesn't have to worry about winning over bernie sanders voters. the base is mostly with her. much more so than with biden. you have 80% of the democrats now very excited about this campaign. which is a huge jump. and so hopefully because she has

that room to maneuver, we've already seen a little bit on some of the issues that center right voters, the swing voters, the type of people that maybe voted for trump or biden or in georgia, she's in georgia tonight, i think about the brian kemp and rafael warnock voters, they both won on the same ticket and she could speak to them, you know, by representing herself as a law and order former prosecutor, tough on crime, not some scary liberal, someone that you could trust. and i think if she gets that piece down, the future not past thing, almost fall news place just by the pictures of them. a picture of kamala harris walking down the stairs and the little girls meeting her, looking up at her versus old donald trump golfing on the golf court. i mean, future versus past. that just happens as long as you get the rest of it in place. >> sarah, that is an interesting

point because it does raise the question, what the heck does a trump campaign do at this point? they come out of the gates trying to attack the positions from the 2020 democratic primary. okay. i get that. they say she no longer supports single payer health care and one of the issues they go after her on and certainly talk her being -- you've heard them before, west coast liberal. does it matter that she's evolving in her positions, will the voters care to see that transition from where she was as a presidential candidate in 2020 and then as vice president to now being a presidential potential nominee now? >> absolutely. i mean, she has got -- and she's already doing this. you see that she is walked back the idea that she thinks all fracking has been banned and medicare for all, she no longer endorsed that and talking about more funding for the border. those are good things for swing voters in swing states.

and i think that donald trump did not expect to be running -- like, a., they were completely calibrated for a joe biden race. they were framing things in terms of mental acuity and age and now unfortunately for donald trump, he has to live in the frame where she's the young candidate and they're trying to peg her as the san francisco liberal. and if she doesn't let them, if they are actions say otherwise and her polies say otherwise, she is going to have to explain why she changed her mind and and there is an easy way to say that. she's gained experience and she understands what it means to governor 350 million people in an enormous diverse country. and i think if she's able to articulate how she's evolved on the issues that is something that she could really do to win over the swing voters. and for people would are kind of beating her up on the flip-flopping of it all, let me

tell you something, mitt romney went from being a sort of a moderate to liberalish, massachusetts governor, to a conservative republican candidate. people do this all of the time. right. they change their public profile based on the office their running for. she could do this. if j.d. vance can call trump america's hitler, and then become his vice president, there is certainly room for her to do some pivoting. >> there is a whole runway worth of room if that is where you're going to go. so cornell, what do you think about this mattering to, you know, progressives and others? could she move to the center safely in this campaign? it seems to me that a lot of progressives immediately began to coalesce around her once it was clear she was at the top of the ticket. how do you read it? >> well, let's move to the center. and i think over the last

decade, i think we've talked about this before, i don't know what left, right means any more. i don't know what right means. i don't think you know what it means any more in the republican party when donald trump is on -- >> no. >> i struggle with that. but look, i think she has to be around where the people are on the issues. everything from wage issues to protecting social security to the environment. i think she's more in line with where a majority of the voters are. and again, it is blocking and tackling. just talk about the issues. i don't think she has to change who she is. because quite frankly she's far more in line with mainstream voters on the issues than donald trump is and j.d. vance are. one last thing quickly and i'm going to be a debbie downer again on this. i do fear that the calibration about the prosecutor. i've seen democrats take this

and run as the top cop before and it has not worked out well. because particularly if you're base moves away, and alienates your base and lock in your base first and then grow out. i like her positioning where she is right now talking about the law and order, because that is a good contrast with trump. but i think we have to be really careful with trying to overcalibrate on the top cop thing and i have seen this before and it hasn't turned out well for democrats. >> we might want to get the branding thoughts on that. sarah longwell, thank you for starting us off tonight. really do appreciate you. everyone else stick around. because there is more juice where we're squeezing. when we come back, we'll head out to georgia and talk with voters there. they were key to biden's victory in 2020. how do black men, sure to be a critical block of voters in this time around, see the presidential race at this moment

with kamala harris at the top of the ticket. plus with less than three weeks until the start of the democratic convention, vice president harris is zeroing in on her big decision on a running mate. and we should expect to see them out and about together in a matter of days. and later in the show, news breaking this afternoon that the group behind project 2025, the right-wing blueprint for a potential second trump administration, well, they're going to be disbanding. but if the extremist road map is already written, does it really matter? probably not. we'll talk about all of that and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. so don't go anywhere.

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we've done more for, and i say this and proudly, for more the black population than any president abraham lincoln. that is a big statement. and crooked joe biden has done nothing for you except talk. it is only talk. it is all talk. >> i'm being indicted for you, the black population. >> that was donald trump in his hand fisted and insulting way appealing to black voters, a strategy he's been focused on in 2024. this month campaign manager susie wilds said, quote, we're not fighting for black people, we're fighting for black men between 18 and 34. one thing trump and his campaign were not counting on -- kamala harris running for president. a new poll has her up 8 points

from where biden was among black voters and the zoom call for black men backing harris shows their support to the tune of $1.3 million. nbc news correspondent yamiche alcindor talked with voters from the state of georgia that helped push biden to the victory last time and how things have changed since then and since he decided not to seek re-election. let's listen. >> her being the top of the ticket, really made me think about creating another historic moment, not just for the country, but for also the black meaning as a whole, too. >> let's bring there yamiche alcindor ahead of tonight's rally. it is so good to see you. you've been seeing and hearing a lot on the ground there. give us a sense in terms of enthusiasm. because we were talking about donnie and the gang just before

about this idea of momentum and how that is going. what is the enthusiasm like there? how is that momentum sustaining itself right now for her? >> reporter: well, michael, the vibes on the ground here in georgia of enthusiasm, of energy, of a little bit of surprise. and a real sense of history. when i talked to people, especially black men, in the story i did for nvn "nightly news," they felt like this was a moment where vice president was showing herself to be the most qualified candidate and having organic support that is powering her through and really lifted her up. it is getting closer and closer to being the official nominee. she's the likely nominee for the democratic party and i heard from one man that he just had not seen this level of enthusiasm this fast in his lifetime. he talked about the fact that he lived through obama and very excited but this time around it felt like harris was meeting the moment and that the democrats have been really in a tough

position where there was so much uncertainty and anxiety and so much angst around president biden's future and for him to drop out and endorse her, people are feeling like they could get on the ground and mobilize and do the things that they feel like they could get to get this state and deliver it for harris. but also win the election overall. i've been talking to some trump supporters sh i talked to one african american man who is a trump supporter and he's worried that harris is at the top of the ticket because now it makes the conversation about age, about sort of cognitive abilities who is best candidate to do all four years, all of that is coming into question. and now he's worried that maybe democrats win that argument because now they have the fresh new candidate that is showing off the democratic party, michael. >> it is interesting, cornell, what she's reporting, because cnn has this poll out, they've got vice president harris eight points higher among black voters than president biden was.

and how do you specifically look at that polling and what does it mean for harris to see that kind of movement of black men and the african american community at large in moving towards her? >> well, look, two things. one, is and i'll say this again, the polling is not predictive. it is instructive. it is not predictive. and three, four months out from '08, we certainly didn't have barack obama where he ended up on election day with -- at 90 some percent. but you do see the movement and you see the movement with the base of the party. and look, i wrote a piece several months back in the new republic pointing out how biden was most off of his 2020 performance of what i call the obama continuing coalition. the younger more diverse voters.

that is where he was most off. and they weren't die hard democrats, right. but that is where he was most off. i think she brings that energy and that change that excites them and you could see that it is moving in those numbers but overall sort of her broad numbers are also moving, too. because i've not seen a candidate go from a net negative in favor ability in like a week and a half and that is what you're seeing in data. so i think she's bringing that coalition along. >> no, that is very true, donnie. and it goes a long to what you know is the state craft of presenting a package of ideas as well as personality. what is interesting in this race is the response by white voters, you had on a call last week, you know, 20 some thousand white

women, suburban moms, et cetera, for harris. now you've got white dudes for harris. you're a white dude for harris raising $4 million on a call recently. what is going on here? i mean, what does it mean? >> i think what it means in elections, people want hope and change. and if you're a white man or a black man or a white woman or a black woman, everybody wants to go through stage. and it is defined. what we had with biden and trump, there was no room for light there. there was no room for change. because we've got two incumbents running and there is not a lot of room for hope when you have a 81 and a 78-year-old and the 78-year-old is talking about going backwards. so what you could assign to her, which i think cuts across all spectrums and when you do the adding and messaging and it is hope and change and i worked on the clinton came, not hillary,

but the clinton/gore campaign. but we were selling change. and history was a great president and he couldn't answer that obviously. >> and that is a significant bell to answer in any election, is that idea of change. and cut cable together with hope in a significant way. yamiche alcindor, appreciate it. up next, new details in the harris and soon to be named running mate. that latest reporting is coming up next. that latest reporting is coming up next. slipping out of balance into freefall. (the stock market is now down 23%). this is happening people. where there are so few certainties... (laughing) look around you. you deserve to know. as we navigate a future unknown. i'm glad i found stability amidst it all. gold. standing the test of time.

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so some of the contenders to be vice president kamala harris's running mate, stumping hard and they are out and about. and new reporting from nbc news said that vice president harris and her yet to be named running mate will hit the campaign trail next week on a battleground state tour. the latest indication that her vp selection process is nearing its end. and in the past week they have helped the campaign expand its footprint a little bit, hosting events across the country and sharpening the message around her candidacy like josh shapiro with his message of freedom which was also the message of harris's first ad as well as minnesota governor tim wals and his message of just how weird

donald trump is, and j.d. vance and their maga allies, how this plays out, it was a message that many democrats have taken and run with. let's get into that with our panel. tim cornell and donnie. so tim, why do you think the weird framing message seems to have caught on? because is it because a lot of folks out there think these folks are weird? >> i do think. i think it is bottom up. i'm going to say this for a while. it worked. if you're in the arizona senate race with mark kelly, another vp contender, and blake masters who is the mold of j.d. vance, just from a policy standpoint, just one of the nationalist maga guy but a weird dude. that was something that showed up in the race a bunch. just that blake masters felt very creepy and it turned off voters and he did worse than

kari lake in that election. so, i think there is a model for this working. i think that voters think about it. and in j.d. vance's case, there is something about trump, we all agree he's weird and he puts on the makeup and sprays his hair but it is in this performer way, reality tv show host way. j.d. vance's weirdness is in a much deeper way. i care deeply about when women should bear their children and that keepy authoritarian is splashing over on to trump and making that hit more potent than it if it was just about trump and the electrocuted sharks or whatever. >> donnie, how did the weird branding stick the way it has. it is amazing the way it's bubbled up and it framed the campaign in a way that i don't think people did.

>> everything about trump, his hair, his -- the things he said and does, was baked in. and it was kind of, i don't want to say part of his charm, i hate to use the charm, but his weird appeal, the word weird. but that cat lady comment sticks. that is a weird twisted cruel thought. that he's not going to get past that. when you go after women who you have chosen not to have children or can't have children and say they're not part of us, you're over there, that goes into the cruel and weird and where do you even come up with that? the thinking is so twisted. and i think weird is a great word. it covers a lot ever sins. >> it does. >> and i know tim wals has been hitting it a lot and you could show a mash up of 80 people saying weird. i don't think it is calculated, it is just coming out. >> and that is what makes it effective. >> and it is an organic aspect. and that is one of the things,

cornell, about the campaign that is so rich. is the organic nature of it. and how this plays out particularly now that you're moving into this space where she's going to make a vice presidential pick. they're going to be out campaigning together next week. i mean, i could ask the obvious question, who do you think that will be with her, but i want to talk along to point that tim and donnie are making, how that candidate could further that narrative, whether it is the weird aspect of the trump/vance campaign, how the voters are responding at this moment. it is -- it has a really interesting organic feel to it. >> it does. and the best things and i'm -- look, some of my best friends are consultants and i'm a consultant. but the best thing about campaigns, they'll come from the consultants. it usually comes from -- >> i've been trying to tell

campaigns that for years. consultants make too much money. they don't want to hear that. >> right. we should cut back on consultants after they pay me. so, but it is, it is from the young people, the same thing as brat and it is weird and all of this other thing. it is really organic. and it is something that the young people, speaking to the young people, who we've gotten all we're going to get out of donald trump as darth vader. we've painted him as dark doom and gloom and evil for the last couple of years and that's begin us a certain percentage of the vote, but it opens up a different conversation with the younger voters who don't see him as darth vader. i will lean to donnie on this, because i think the clinton/gore team was one i thought was a signaling of something different. a youthfulness. it was signaling value and a move forward. i hate this idea that they're doing all of this electoral

politics about what state puts them in play. i would think about systematically about what they want to put forward the way i thought a tip to the hat to you, and i thought that -- that clinton/gore put forward. >> to tim, you're the comes guy in this group. you bring together the combination of strategy of cornell and branding and messaging from donnie. rollout, looking at the momentum and all of the things we're talking about, what is your take? she's got some very effective communicators around her right now with governors and so forth. how do you see this coming together as she names her vp nominee and rolling into that convention? >> look, agree with the brand thing it important. and just kind of sending a message that it is a future ticket. so if you get that as a baseline, then you get into the communication side of this and

how you could kind of advance this message further. and in 2024 in particular, the one big thing that is different from the '92 race, no offense donnie, is there are all of these other places that you could talk to people and voters expect to hear from you on tiktok. they expect to hear little clips of interviews and as the deft communicator than about the "nightly news" and tv ads. so having a skilled communicator is more important than ever right now. and i just look at the options. i loved how josh shapiro has been talking, he's ticking my heart as a former republican talking about american exceptionalism and how donald trump has been down talking america. i love that hit. i think he's very deft. tim wals has been talking about has a mid western sensibility. the guy that might fix your carburetor and talks like a

normal public schoolteacher and we couldn't forget pete. he was on fox this weekend. advancing a message very successfully. so i would look at those three that jump out as me as particularly strong and i don't want to get to everyone next week to tricking down. >> all good points. nowhere is going around. stick around. when we come back, j.d. vance is caught on tape admitting that they're freaking out about kamala harris. that sound and that story coming up next. before my doctor and i chose breztri for my copd, i had bad days. [cough] flare-ups that could permanently damage my lungs. with breztri, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing. starting within 5 minutes, i noticed my lung function improved. it helped improve my symptoms, and breztri was even proven to reduce flare-ups, including those that could send me to the hospital. so now i look forward to more good days. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler

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all of us were hit with a little bit of a political sucker punch. the bad news is that kamala harris does not have the same baggage as joe biden does because whatever we might say, kamala harris is a lot younger and kamala harris is not struggling the same way that joe biden does. >> j.d. vance speaking to donors at an event into minnesota this week. privately telling them that kamala harris becoming a candidate was a, quote, sucker punch, an admission that they were caught flat footed by the change at the top of the democratic ticket. that recording courtesy of "the washington post" and we have not been able to verify the recording. the harris candidacy has not been the only thing that caught the trump campaign off guard. since j.d. vance joined the ticket, they've struggled to regain their footing.

thanks in no small part thanks to his toxic views about people who don't have children. and if you thought he couldn't make it any worse, well, just wait. there is more. take a listen to this from 2020. >> in the fact that so many people, especially in america's leadership class just don't have that in their lives, you know, i worry that it makes people more sociopathic and our whole country a little bit less -- less mentally stable. of course, you talk about going on twitter, final point i'll make, is you go on twitter and almost always the people who are most deranged and psychotic are people who don't have kids at home. >> dude, seriously. >> tim, cornell. >> step away from the childless people. >> absolutely amazing. >> disgusting. >> tim, what do you do with that? how does donald trump deal with a guy who is standing next to

him thinking that childless people are sociopathic and less mentally stable. >> if you're going to rub for office and you do speak at podcasts, but like this guy has a long trail of interviews where he's saying crazy thing. i guess don't be a jerk is two good pieces of advice. look, i don't -- it is tough. there is some gender chasm existing and j.d. has exacerbated it even more to the detriment of the trump/vance ticket and you saw this trump trying to address this last night on laura ingraham and he gave a trumpian answer and saying j.d. is just a family man and he likes families, so it seems like he doesn't like families but then when he tried to kpleen it up, it was a

sarcastic comment and i don't have anything against cats. but you does have things against women. so this is a sticky one. this is a group that they were already struggling with. i think it is going to activate women in particular, but a lot of voters to get more engaged in this campaign and i think that j.d.'s created a big hornet's nest. >> and it is all around his head. and you know him, donnie, what does trump do with a guy standing next to him who is now opened up -- >> there are two things that trump hates about this. negative attention. the attention is not on him. so bad enough that it is negative. but in the news this week, we haven't been talking about donald. we've been talking about vance. so the fact that it is negative is one thing. and i'm going to come back to why there is a lot to work here with the democrats, the cruel word. you could bring back some of donald trump's greatest hits, making fun of disabled people.

and there are so many -- >> the cruelty continues. >> you brand both of these guys the cruel ticket. that is -- we have gore gotten about donald trump's heinous and nasty and mean and not just stupid, but just down right cruel and mean, now he's got a come padre owe-n this and i would love to go, don't go cruel in 2024. it is a powerful word but that is what that was and that is what double down and tripping down on it. so trump is not happy that there is negative attention but that there is attention on this. that is not good. >> cornell, it is not cool to be cruel. right. i'm doing a little branding here. because i got the man who brands right next to to me. in your wildest imagination, imagine a worst vp rollout -- can you envision a worst vp rollout than the one we've seen? and is there a way to clean up aisle 9 for the democrats?

obviously there's an advantage for the harris campaign, as donny pointed out. >> i think the contrast here is stark. as voters have gotten to know and see more of vice president harris, we have seen her favorables increase. the opposite has happened with jd vance. he's a gift that keeps giving. his negatives are, in fact, growing. so he's the gift that keeps giving for democrats. he's a positive for democrats. i'm at this point willing to take odds. donny knows him better than i do. i'm willing to take odds. how long does trump keep him on the ticket at this point? >> it ain't easy -- >> tim miller, cornell belcher and donny deutsche, thank you guys so much for hanging with me for the last hour. enjoyed it. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be ri.

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it's election day in arizona, where voters will finalize the matchup in a hotly-contested senate race. democratic congressman ruben gallego will find out who he will square off against in november. the heavy favorite is of course, election denier kari lake. that election denialism, which took hold in arizona in 2020 has turned off republicans in that state so deeply that some are

taking a stand. here is republican mayor of mesa, arizona, who just endorsed vice president kamala harris for that very reason on our air this morning explaining his decision. >> there are certain times that, you know, the question that is presented is a moral one and an ethical one and a question of character and silence is not an option. so, that's my argument to my fellow republicans that this is not a year that we can follow tradition or follow misplaced loyalty and vote for a republican at the top of the ticket. >> the mayor of mesa, arizona, will also be a guest on "the beat" coming up in just one hour. coming up for us on "deadline white house," if the trump campaign has nothing to do with project 2025, as they claim, then why did the head of project 2025 just step down? that story right after this quick break. don't go anywhere. get your business online in minutes

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♪♪ you may have seen their agenda. part of it is called project 2025. now, can you believe they put that in writing? 900 pages of it. project 2025. a plan to return america to a dark past. let's be clear, this represents an outright attack on our children, our families and our future. these extremists want to take us back, but we are not going back.

we are not going back. hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 here in new york. i'm michael steele, in for nicole wallace. so from the very start of vice president harris' presidential campaign, she has made it very clear, donald trump and the project 2025 agenda pose a significant threat to this country. the 900-page manifesto hatched by the heritage foundation lays out a frightening blueprint that would overhaul the federal government and our democracy. trump loyalists would be installed throughout federal agencies, abortion access would be rolled back and mass deportations would take place. harris and other prominent democrats have taken every chance they can get to make sure voters know what is inside those 900 pages. and it seems that their attacks have hit a nerve. we saw it recently when trump tried to distance himself from project 2025.

>> i don't know what the hell it is. it's project '25. he's involved in project -- and then they read some of the things. and they are extreme. i mean, they're seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. i don't want to know anything about it. >> and this afternoon, nbc news has matched what was first reported by "the washington post," that project 2025 is ending its policy work and its director paul dans is stepping down. the post reports trump senior adviser repeatedly called heritage leaders instructing them to stop promoting 2025. she and trump's strategist repeatedly authored public statements disavowing the project, and then trump started saying so in his own social media posts. more recently, lacivita people in the project would be barred from a second trump administration. no matter what happens with

project 2025 itself, its objectives still align with the trump agenda. he can still carry out its plans if he returns to office. harris' campaign manager echoing that in a statement, quote, hiding the 920-page blueprint from the american people doesn't make it less real -- in fact, it should make voters more concerned about what else trump and his allies are hiding. project 2025 is on the ballot because donald trump is on the ballot. this is his agenda, written by his allies, for donald trump to inflict on our country. and that is where we start this hour with our writer and editor for project democracy, amanda carpenter. plus, president and ceo of democracy forward, sky periman and msnbc columnist and contributor charlie psychs. amanda, you captured the moment in a great post that you put on social media when this story

broke. it reads, so, the trump campaign is saying it is not connected to project 2025, but got the director of project 2025 fired because of the blowback it is having on his campaign. gotch ya. talk about the mixed messaging here that they're trying to push out. >> yeah. no coordination there. here is the thing, michael, we had talks about this and i always directed people to look at donald trump's own campaign promises and his own words about what he wants to enact for his agenda because the reality in plain truth is that project 25 wasn't a document to program trump, it was a document to make trump's wildest rhetoric a reality for us all. it was the policy prescription to make his own campaign promises true. i mean, this whole project came about because there was a recognition among a lot of trump staffers who went to the heritage foundation that his

first term they didn't really get all that they wanted. so they had to construct this policy document to get everyone on the same page about how the second term will go better, right? they spun up this narrative about the deep state to blame and we're going to coordinate everyone so the next time that donald trump gets in power, we will have the manpower ready to go on day one to assist him. okay. and so you look department by department and the plans that they have, which are wild. there's 900 pages. we have all been through it. we talked about it extensively. but the thing that underpins it all, right, the thing that donald trump cannot get away from is that he wants an authoritarian expansionist control of the federal government to enact his political agenda using every means of leverage possible that he can obtain through the oval office. that is what the heritage document and the plan was designed to help him do with these policy prescriptions to do that agency by agency by agency.

so he can sack the director of project 2025. but he can't distance himself from his own campaign promises, the way that he threatened to weaponize the federal government to abuse insurrection act and the alien enemies act and engage in mass deportations and all the rest. those are from his own mouth. >> and charlie, that's the rub in all of this. you know, you can say what you want about all of this. the breakdown at project 2025 does give us some insight into the former president's thinking. what do you make of that and the timing of all of this in light of, i don't know, kamala harris coming to the foreground as a presidential nominee. >> well, this is awfully interesting. amanda once wrote a book about gaslighting. it's interesting how the trump campaign is gaslighting. of course, project 2025 is a governing blueprint. it's not just a road map but it

is also part of the trump 2.0 effort to have the loyalists in office. but you know, on one level, this is -- we talk about bad messaging a lot. clearly what the trump campaign is responding to is the fact that the critiques of project -- and the warnings about project 2025 have broken through. they're getting feedback on this. they realize that voters in swing states are actually saying, what is in that -- what is in that document? now, i'm not that surprised that donald trump would try to distance himself from this. he's never read a 900-page book in his life. and he doesn't want to be held to it. and even though he fully intends to implement many of the things in that book, he doesn't want anyone else to get credit for it, right? it's like because he alone can come up with these great ideas. but i don't think that anybody should be fooled. this project, i think, is an indication of just how serious

maga is about trump 2.0. and so, even though donald trump is never going to read that 900-page book, i think we all ought to be very grateful that amanda and her colleagues have broken it down and raised the red flags. this is what's coming. it's not trump 1.0 again. it is going to be far more aggressive. >> and that, sky, is the bottom line. you, like amanda, have been covering this, studying this project 2025 in-depth. talk to us a little bit how even if the project is gone, woop, it's gone. the means for the plan -- the effect of the plans and what the plan is about is not going away. it's still game on. >> that's right, michael. they can run but you can't hide from the extremism that we see in this plan but also in what we saw in the prior administration.

our organization at democracy forward, we had to take the prior administration to court on a number of the issues that are in project 2025. personnel is policy. and the folks that are behind this project are still active in a variety of the -- a variety of the networks that are seeking to back this far right agenda. i think the demonization of rhetoric, of immigrants of lgbtq people, demonizing librarians and teachers across the country. this is all that this project does. seeking to ban medication abortion. i've not seen anybody in the maga base come out and distance themselves from those actual policy proposals, even if they're trying to run from the brand of project 2025. >> and amanda, that's the thing for me. we get the politics here. we know what's happening. okay. guess what, we're not -- we're not doing that. no -- never -- we're distanced.

come on, seriously? you have a post here from jonathan swan of the "new york times" that says, quote, project 2025 has become inconvenient for the trump campaign but it has produced nearly all of the policy it was ever going to, and owns the central personnel data base in the conservative movement. trump doesn't yet have a functioning transition team, and will likely need its resources. in addition to the policy, there was vetting of trump loyalists. that stuff is not going away. you can tear up the paperwork. you can fire people, amanda. the fact of it is this is your plan. this is what you're going to do because everything that you need to start your administration is out of that plan, is built into that plan. >> yeah. i mean, certainly this -- the heritage foundation was ready to provide the army to work for donald trump. and i don't see that they're going to get any other people to serve a second trump 2 point

administration. okay, but let's put that aside. if he gets project 2025 is bad, what does he actually think of the vice president that he selected, jd vance? because jd vance is the project 2025 vp. i mean, if you think what was written in the introduction of the project 2025 document was a little too hot in the rhetoric, that is nothing compared to the podcast that jd vance has been doing for his senate career about childless cat ladies and all the rest. and so, okay. let's pretend that you can somehow wave a magic wand and make that go away. jd vance is on your ticket. and he's not going anywhere any time soon. >> he's not. he's not, charlie. they're stuck together. as we heard in the statement from the harris campaign, certainly the campaign manager, democrats are not going to stop either. they're not stopping talking about this. what do you make of that? is that a good strategy, or

should they just sort of buy what trump is trying to sell? >> no, no. i think keep talking about it, keep leaning into this. i don't know, michael. i sort of increasingly beginning to suspect maybe they didn't vet jd vance -- >> you think? >> there's always an email. there's always a text. there's always a podcast where he doubles down on how weird he is. but i agree with amanda that, you know, despite all the talk about that he might drop him from the ticket, i think that donald trump is going to have to carry jd vance to full term. i don't think he has any choice here. and so he is stuck with him. and the fact is that, you know, for all of the crazy rhetoric that you might see in that 900-page book that donald trump is never going to read, amanda's point is exactly right, it pales next to what jd vance has said and that we're going to find out that he said over and over and over again. these are not one-time gaffes. these are not things that he just tossed off in a bad moment.

this is who he is. this is the way his mind operates. and now he's got this huge -- shown on him. what's amazing, you and i were there at the republican convention. it's hard for me to imagine a worse rollout for jd vance and hard to imagine a stronger rollout for kamala harris. how in the world has it changed since you and i had a beer in milwaukee? >> i tell you, dude. yeah. that's a good beer, too, by the way. particularly given how things have played out. so sky, i need you to do me a favor what we're hearing from the clear messaging coming from democrats. they're talking about the weirdness of jd vance and the harmful impact of project 2025. how has this messaging landed with voters? and even if you see some peeling back, sort of maybe tucking jd off in a corner for a little while to let the messaging cool

down around him, now sort of repealing their love for project 2025. has this so far stuck with voters and that bell can't get unrung for them with respect to these two pieces of the trump campaign? >> well, we know that voters are highly concerned about the extremism and the american people -- and we see this in ballot initiatives. we have seen this in elections since dobbs, the american people just fundamentally eject this extremism. there is no mandate for a maga reality where we are penalizing civil servants, banning medication that people need, air less safe. there's just no mandate for it. you do see this resonating with gen z voters but voters across the realm of communities, which is why they're seeking to run from this brand. but the important thing is we know extremism when we see it. we saw it in the prior

administration. it has been rebuked election after election. and i think that's what you'll see here. >> so amanda, the more the trump team sort of try to talk us out of believing that they're trying to set up an autocratic government the more they stumble into confirming that's exactly what the plan is. trump made a comment on friday about christians not having to vote after this year. and he was asked about it last night on fox. let's take a listen to how he responded. >> i said, vote for me. you're not going to have to do it ever again. it's true because we have to get the vote out. christians are not known as a big voting group. they don't vote. and i'm explaining that to them. you never vote. this time vote. i'll straighten out the country. you won't have to vote anymore. i won't need your vote. >> it's being interpreted as you are not surprised to hear by the left as, well, they're never going to have another election. he says he's having -- can you

just respond? >> don't worry about the future. vote -- you have to vote on november 5th. after that you don't have to worry about voting anymore. i don't care because we're going to fix that. the country will be fixed. and we won't even need your vote anymore because frankly we will have such love. if you don't want to vote anymore, that's okay. >> i hear a lot of autocracy alarm bells going off there. what do you hear? >> yeah. well, a lot of people say he didn't really mean it. i just want to ask your viewers, does he deserve to have a charitable interpretation of those comments given his track record, starting with challenging the 2020 election, inciting an insurrection, calling for the term of the constitution because of alleged fraud that he claimed in that election, joking about -- joking about being a dictator on day one. saying how great it is that president xi was in office for life. he repeatedly flirts with this idea. and i don't think that is a

coincidence. like this idea is on his brain. and you know, i think the selection of jd vance is also important data point when it comes to this that jd vance is there as a vice presidential candidate, not only because he has appeal to the weird alt right for things we discussed previously, but he stated very plainly that he would be willing to do what mike pence didn't do on january 6th. he told it in an interview to george stephanopoulos and maybe the false electors thing was a good idea. he would be willing to accept that and send it back to the states. so, when you put this picture together, it is a terrifying moe mosaic. given the track record he certainly does not deserve it. >> certainly, charlie, the democrats are going to offer any charity to donald trump on project 2025, jd vance or his inclination towards autocracy.

what more do they need to do to make sure voters understand exactly what amanda just said and what skye has been referring to so that we get a fuller picture of what's the opposition is and what kamala harris is all about. >> well, the ought to take every opportunity to point out that here we have a 78-year-old man who appears to be in cognitive decline which republicans said up until a week ago was a very, very serious thing. but i also think that part of the task is to remind people who and what donald trump is. you know, it's hard to keep track of all of the things that he has done, all the things that he has said, all the laws he has broken, all the women that he has abused. so i think that you do two things. number one, you look back at the past. you remind people who donald trump is. and i think he'll do that work for them in many cases. but then you also need to cast

this as the future. what is he planning to do? that's why the project 2025 issue i think has resonated because this is the agenda. we're not just litigating what happened last four or last eight years. we are looking at the future. and i think this is one of the most interesting ways in which this campaign has been turned on its head because it's no longer two elderly men arguing about the past and who deserves another chance. now you have a candidate who is saying, okay, we're not going back, which is a very, very interesting phrase to use when you're running against a 78-year-old man, wanna be autocrat who is clearly in cognitive decline. >> all right. everybody sit tight. no one is going anywhere. when we return, they may be the most revealing moments of every trump rally, but their not the parts you ever get to see. why we all need to be paying more attention to what's being said in the prayers, the prayers

before the ex-president even takes the stage. plus, just in, more evidence that democrats made a smart move replacing president biden with vice president harris at the top of the ticket. we have a stunning new polling to share with you. and new details emerge in the investigation into the assassination attempt against donald trump. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break so don't go anywhere. r a quick break so don anywhere not every decision you make will be as good as getting a volkswagen at the savvy vw summer sales event. 2024 volkswagen models cost less to maintain than honda. get 0.9% apr financing or a $3500 customer bonus on a new 2024 atlas or atlas cross sport. [introspective music] recipes. recipes that are more than their ingredients.

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is this heaven? we have to elect good, god-fearing people to the federal government. >> we ask that you put a hedge of protection around president trump and deliver him from the baseless attacks and remove from office those who are subverting justice in our legal system. >> donald trump is anointed by god. anybody here believe that donald trump is anointed by god. to lead this nation and to take this country back! >> when you listen for just a few seconds, you'll walk away with a frightful awareness that this isn't your typical prayer at a political campaign event or even a campaign event for trump. mccay coppens reviewed 58 prayers offered at the beginning of the trump allies over the last year and a half. prayers he says paint an almost

universally bib lickly picture. trump's name was mentioned more than jesus christ and where the messages once prayers for trump's righteousness to be an instrument of god's will now begin with the assumption that he already is. joining our conversation, aforementioned mccay coppens, staff writer for the atlantic and msnbc contributor. mccay, it's interesting this aspect of the campaign that no one really gets to see or hear much of. what do these prayers tell us about why the stakes feel so apocalyptically high on both sides? this sort of infusion of scary almost. >> yeah. you know, the thing about the prayers is that, like, i have been to a lot of republican political events over the years. and i've seen a typical prayer at an event like this which is

that you ask god to bless and guide the candidate and to bless them with wisdom. to keep them safe. and there are some of those prayers. but overwhelmingly what i found in these prayers were two themes that i think taken together help explain why this election feels so important to a lot of trump support supporters. one is that almost all the prayers depict america as kind of -- in a state of apocalyptic catastrophe, right? we have prayers saying that civilization is being driven to ruins. that america is on the precipes of disaster. and you know, that the lack of prayer in schools or the flood of illegal immigrants across the border or the rigging of the 2020 election has broken america's covenant with god. and that to restore its place in

god's good graces america needs to elect donald trump. so, that's one theme you hear a lot. the other theme is that a lot of people -- not all of them -- but a lot of people who give prayers at these rallies, frame it as a spiritual battle. in fact, one prayer in south carolina actually referenced demonic forces being led by joe biden and kamala harris. and while that prayer was more provocative than most, it's clear from a lot of these prayers that people giving them believe that the stakes of this election are not just political, they are eternal. and that if donald trump doesn't win, america will be punished by god for its failure to do what he wants. >> well, that's interesting because you write that a former evangelical minister told you, quote, no one prays for trump to do right. they pray that god will do right by trump. talk to us about this new framing in these prayers that trump's goodness is now already

presumed. he is angelic and they convey him in images, as you see on x and other platforms, as the messiah or moses or some mythical religious figure. what does all this say to you about where this is going? >> well, it reflects first of all a shift on the perception on the right of troig. in 2016, the biblical character you would often hear trump compared to if you talked to conservative evangelicals was cirus the great. i'm going to get a little in the weeds a sixth century bc persian king who liberated the israel identities from bab loan yan cabtivety even though he himself didn't believe in the god of israel. the idea was that trump was kind of an unlikely vessel. evangelicals who were uncomfortable with his moral failings, character defaults would kind of talk themselves

into believing that, yeah, he's maybe not a great guy in his personal life but god is using him. you don't hear a lot of cirus the great references. it's more common you hear him compared to david or solomon or esther. i do think that reflects a pretty profound and important shift because the people giving these prayers and a lot of trump's most religious supporters just believe that he is a godly man. and in some cases maybe even infallible, at least that's the way he's described in these prayers. i think, michael, to the point that you were making looking forward, if you believe that a political candidate is not only, you know, a good politician or somebody who has policies that you believe in, but is an almost messianic figure, it can really wrap up the stakes of the election in dangerous ways. i often found myself in reviewing these prayers

wondering what will happen in november if their prayers are not answered and if donald trump does not win because it's easy to see how things can kind of spiral into a pretty dark place in that scenario. >> well, you know, the word that comes to my mind is blasphemy. that's another conversation we can have for another time. any way, i'll not revert to my moments as an august stin yan seminarian at this time. i'll spare you that. >> we need more of that, michael. more seminarian michael steele. >> trust me, it's a sermon. thank you for spending time with us. i really appreciate you, man. when we return, brand new polling on the presidential campaign showing the excitement and enthusiasm around vice president harris is real, folks. and it's transforming the race. going to talk about that and those numbers right after this. s

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as nicole likes to say, on this program we don't pay a whole lot of attention to polls, but a batch of fresh polling released in just the last hour, caught our eye. that's because it reveals that the vice president's momentum, folks, it's very real. polls from seven swing states by bloomberg and morning consult show that harris has closed the gap with donald trump, performing far better than president biden did before he dropped out of the race. in arizona, harris edges trump by two points.

in georgia, it's a dead heat, both harris and trump come in at 47 each. and in michigan, michigan, the vice president opens up a whooping 11-point lead, more than doubling joe biden's lead in that state. bloomberg notes that the gap between the candidates overall is still within the margin of error. we're back with amanda, skye and charlie. charlie, dude, tell us what's going on here? is this real? or is this still kind of like, this is different so let's play with it a little bit. is this the momentum thing working? how do you read these numbers right now? >> well, the momentum thing is definitely working. i think you got to guess on the last hour we said, polls are not predictive. but i think they're capturing, you know the fact that she's enjoying a honeymoon. and i think that honeymoon is going to last for a while. keep in mind, she has not even had the convention bump yet.

donald trump and jd vance had their opportunity, introduce themselves to the american people and here we are. she has not yet. americans are still getting their head around her. so again, don't pay too much attention to the specific numbers, but the enthusiasm is real. it's tangible, and i have to say that i can't imagine there's any campaign that wants to be on the opposite side of all of that. the big question is how long does it last? euphoria fades, right? every honeymoon comes to an end. what i think we need to keep our eye on over the next maybe, three, four weeks is there's going to be a massive effort on both sides to define her. the trump campaign is dropping tons of money in swing states. i'm a fan of the olympics. you turn on the olympics, you get wall to wall to wall cam la attack ads. she's got to respond to that. she is responding to all of that. but i do think there's going to be a fight on in the next month

to see whether or not she can capitalize on this enthusiasm or whether or not the trump campaign can blunt it. now i think they can blunt it, but this is not going away. you know, when you activate this many people in politics, it has a very, very long tail. and i think we're going to be seeing that. >> amanda, i think that's a very good point because, as you and i both know from how we engage in this space, the reality of it is when you create the momentum, when you get the juices flowing, the voters seem to be engaged, they're interested, they want more. and to charlie's point about despite that there are ads playing in some of the swing states that are hitting kamala, these numbers show, yeah, we know that's happening but we like her. how do you read this moment, particularly given that next week or within that window she's going to be announcing her choice of vice president. they're going to dive bomb into a convention. everyone is going to be stoked in love for thanking joe biden for stepping aside and lifting up and pushing her out. charlie talked about a bump.

that coupled with all of this could be pretty impactful going into september. >> listen, it is remarkable that she's getting a better bump off the rnc than the trump/vance ticket is. baseline. >> nailed it. >> but i do recall for her first presidential campaign in which -- listen, she makes a very good impression. she had a fabulous roll out. she had great optics. she had a very good couple weeks on her own merits. then kind of fizzled out very quickly over time as it became clear she couldn't manage her campaign structure and things like that. now, this could be very different. this could be the perfect thing for kamal, right? because she essentially has a campaign being given to her. all the policy work is already done. she doesn't have to learn the new things. she doesn't have to test these ideas because they've already been road tested by four years in the biden/harris administration. and the timing again of this very short sprint relay campaign is interesting because while the trump campaign can figure out

their negative attack ads, she has the perfect opportunity to answer it and define herself at the convention and have that surprise pick of whoever she is going to choose as a vice presidential candidate. she has a lot of great opportunities to make the timing work for her over the next month. that said, it's still very hard. i think we're overlooking the fact of what a credible thing been able to pull off in creating this campaign essentially from scratch in a matter of days. there will be tough moments. and the challenges will come i don't think necessarily from these mean-spirited attacks from the trump campaign, but how she handles them in the public eye. like does she look presidential? when she comes under these writerring unfair attacks. does she get rattled? this has always been the trump strategy, right? just go at the opponents hard and knock them off their game. i think that's the biggest challenge. i think she has everything down to her prosecutor dna to handle it, but that trial is coming.

>> yeah. that trial is coming, skye. so the numbers are exciting to hear and people are going to be juiced by that. but, to amanda's point, there is a sobering moment out there lurking with her name on it. talk to us a little bit about what that could look like and what the expectation could mean for the campaign to sort of get through that moment, not lose too much momentum and keep pushing through september, october into november. >> well, what we know about this maga far right movement is that they wheel and deal in misinformation and in extremism. and so there's no doubt in my mind that they will try those tactics again. those are tactics that the american people have rejected, but i do think we will see everything there. i think the real important thing is the contrast we have here. you have on the one hand a vice president who has dedicated her

career to the rule of law, to the safety of the american people, the well being of the american people. you have on the other hand a former president who believes he is above the law, who has packed the court with justices that seem to be willing to go that distance with him. and so i think that really the american people are going to be asking is this the moment where we want more of our freedoms taken away? i think they will definitively say it's not. but we do know there will be a number of tactics and misinformation in the days ahead and we will have to see how they weather that. >> look, the timing right now is just amazing to watch to all of your points how we kind of flows for the harris campaign, how the biden -- how the obama -- obama, listen to me. how the trump campaign is trying to figure out, okay, what do we tactically do next. interesting times. interesting moments for both kbans. amanda carpenter, skyee periman,

charlie sykes, my man. thank you for the beer. >> how about me, i like beer. >> i'll get a beer with you, amanda. i got your name on it right here. when we return a highly-charged hearing on capitol hill today on what went wrong at donald trump's rally in butler, pennsylvania. new details on the investigation after a short break. a short bre. d “red lobster's going away...” your boy, flavor flav, said “not today!” crabfest is here, boy. and they got two flavors: roasted garlic and new cajun butter. when you gotta have seafood, you gotta have red lobster. (children speaking)

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i want to know what you can tell me about what happened

during that final two-minute period, where a whole bunch of people in the crowd saw and were shouting he's got a gun. >> no information regarding a weapon on the roof was ever passed to our personnel. >> how is that even possible? >> what i need to know is exactly what happened and i need my investigators to do their job. and i cannot -- >> a bunch of people did not do their jobs. >> i can not put my thumb on the scale, otherwise -- >> what do you mean put your thumb on the scale? >> you're asking me, senator, to completely make a rush to judgment about somebody failing. i acknowledge, this was a failure. >> that was the acting head of the secret service ronald rowe today, facing a fiery hearing today before senators on capitol hill when the attempted assassination of donald trump, what rowe admitted failure on multiple levels. watch. >> it is something that i have struggled with to understand. and i have no -- i have no

explanation for it. it is something that i feel as though we could have perhaps found him. we could have maybe stopped him. maybe on that particular day he would have decided this isn't the day to do it because law enforcement just found me flying my drone. >> senators on the judiciary and homeland security committees called out the gaps in security that rowe says officials are still working out 17 days later, including the gunman's motive, why a counter drone system was not deployed and the hour that passed between the shooter being identified as suspicious and when he opened fire. joining us now, former fbi counterintelligence agent peter struck and nbc news justice reporter ryan riley. ryan, talk to us about what happened in that hearing today and your biggest take aways because man it got intense.

>> i mean, yeah, it was heated. there was a lot of anger going back and forth. and i think that, you know, there's a process here. and i think that's what these senators are really struggling with. there's a lot of back end work that you have to do in order to hold someone accountable and the process here is important because otherwise you could end up down the line with something being thrown out or something of that nature. so you have to go through these steps in order to hold people accountable and find out exactly where that failure was. that said, you know a lot of this isn't terribly -- something that was outside of the realm of imagination. some of the answers that sort of leaning towards thus far are sort of the basic bureaucratic blunders that you might expect in something like this. communication was a major focus and communication was a major issue. and when you have these supplementary local law enforcement teams joining this broader effort, those lines of communication were clearly not established in this case. you know the fact that they weren't able to get that to the secret service so quickly. but big picture thing, the thing

that stuck out to me from the very beginning, there was so much focus on the republican national convention. that's where all of the attention within the bureaucracy was, right? everyone was prepare for that. that was thought to be the big security measure. me there's a little comparison to january 6th here where on january 6th, that was the threat. right? but everyone was talking about what was going to happen on inauguration day and that's where everyone's attention was focussed. that seems to be a similar thing here. there is this big event coming up. that's what all the big wigs were worried about. and then under the radar sort of this happened and because they didn't have a big enough team on the ground there they thought it was just another sort of trump rally they had done a million times before and that's where these major security failures happen. so i think this is going to -- information is going to continue to trickle out. but you're seeing a lot of outrage from the hill and people looking to get sort of their clips that they can express anger about what happened to president trump. we have seen that from both sides of the aisle really a lot of anger about this attack, michael. >> yeah, we have. pete, i want to play some of

what u.s. attorney general merrick garland told nbc news's ken dilanian earlier today. >> how alarmed are you that a 20-year-old was able to get a clear shot, 150 yards from a former president? >> so this is extremely alarming. our democracy will not survive if people decide that the way in which they're going to get whatever outcomes they want or whatever other motive he might have is by killing someone. that's why we have to find out what happened here, why it happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. >> more of that exclusive interview with the attorney general is coming up later tonight on "nbc nightly news." but pete, what's your reaction? and what do you think needs to happen immediately with the secret service? >> well, michael, i think it was apparent today and i think about acting secret service laying out that there was a variety of

failures to communications with the locals and integration and planning with the locals to the behave of the team to say very clearly, look, things happened that should not have happened and that we are going through and finding out and determining what we need to fix. and at the same time, i thought he did an excellent job of is also defending the secret service. when you get to the peanut gallery at the end of the senatorial lineup and they start hounding him and start getting agitated he did an excellent job of defending the secret service, look, we need to let our process. look at what happened. start politicizing this process. and i think he did a good job of pointing out that overwhelmingly the men and women of the secret service are doing extraordinary work and extraordinarily demanding conditions and, you know, i think, my take away, was that the senators were largely satisfied with the path forward.

>> some of that process has revealed itself, ryan. what are you hearing about that aspect of this in terms of what you see from media posts by the shooter, et cetera. >> yeah, that information sort of still trickling in. it's this balance right now because i will say, you know, in all my years of sort of covering the fbi, the amount of briefings that they're doing on this is out of the ordinary because this was an extraordinary event. the benefit that they have here, of course, is that under the guidelines, you know, there's not necessarily the concern that this is ever going to go to trial. so this is just going to be someone individually who they can talk about and talk about what happened and not worry about how that's going to impact a potential trial because the shooter here is dead. so, we had a briefing yesterday and they're going to continue to trickle out this information. but they've made some mistakes along the way. this is still an on going process as they try to get more information out there and a lot of the work -- open source

researchers are doing alongside the fbi to try to get as much information about this out there as possible. >> all right. ryan relly and peter struck. thank you very much. appreciate it. a quick break for us, folks and we'll be right back. a quick and we'll be right back. "at t-mobile, you get tons of benefits, and you can still save versus the other guys." ok. stop. i'll just do it. check out the t-mobile savings calculator to see how much you can save. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support.

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okay, folks. if you don't want to know the results from the paris olympics, now would be a good time to hit the mute button, look away, leaf the room because i'm going to

reveal some information. all right. you ready? okay. here we go. team usa's women's gymnastic team has done it again, baby. yes, they have. they are back on top with their fourth gold medal in the team event, extending their, get this, 32-year medal earning streak. italy took silver. and brazil took the bronze heading into these olympics, the u.s. women's weren't afraid. they weren't afraid to say it, they wanted that gold medal. simone biles called paris a redemption tour after she had to withdraw from multiple events at the tokyo games. becomes the most decorated olympic history in the olympic games with eight medal. watch the gold medal winning gymnastics team tonight on nbc. another break for us. we'll be back right after this. y'all come on back now. unmute. we're good. unmute we're good [whoosh]

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