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good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern. 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we begin with major breaking news. sources tell nbc news a multination prisoner swap including the united states, russia and other countries is currently under way. sources say the americans being released can be expected to be in u.s. custody soon. the kremlin spokesperson said he had no comment on the reports of the exchange. the turkish government is confirming the exchange is going to take place at the ankara airport in turkey.

we do not know if what we're showing you right now on your screen, which is the live shot from one of our cameras at ankara international airport are the planes that are involved, but from what we can see in these live pictures, at ankara international airport, there are those two planes that you see on the screen. again, no information on what these planes are, what they're doing there. but one of them, as you can see, has on its tail the russian flag. this is live pictures from ankara international airport. joining us this morning, allie raffa, matt bodner, courney kube, peter baker, and richard haass, president emeritus, council on foreign relations, alexander vinman of european

affairs. what do we know as of this moment? >> reporter: due to the sensitive nature of these ongoing talks, these ongoing movements, we're not able to talk about exactly who is involved in this prisoner swap. but we do know from a senior administration official that it involves multiple countries, including the united states, of course, but we can talk about who we know has been in russian custody recently. we know that that includes former marine paul whelan, who was in prisoned since december of 2018 on espionage charges and his name got a lot of attention specifically in 2022 when he was notably not included in that prisoner swap that allowed for wnba player brittney griner to be freed from russian custody. another one that we know has been wrongfully detained in russia, of course, "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich, in prison now for 70 weeks, sentenced earlier this month to 16 years in russian

prison for espionage charges and when that did happen, we heard president biden say in a statement again that he committed no crime, saying that he was targeted by the russian government because he is a journalist and an american. and saying that the united states was pushing for his release and will continue to push for that release. so, we know these ongoing conversations have been happening for months, over a year now, to be able to get to this position today, if this is able to come to fruition. there have been back channel communications between the u.s. and russia, that's something that white house officials including national security adviser jake sullivan has said repeatedly when asked for any updates on this situation. but, of course, he also said that there is a caveat involved, that these talks are extremely complicated and sometimes take years to come to fruition. but there has been renewed hope, especially in the wake of russian president putin saying in recent months that he would be willing to participate in a

prisoner swap for these prisoners who have been wrongfully detained. still awaiting confirmation that this is happening, that it has happened, that they made it back to u.s. soil successfully and no doubt the president as well as the families of these people waiting with bated breath for this good news. >> and when these developments do occur, which we will live through right here live on msnbc, we will be able to get more information about some of the details that were carried out so that this massive operation could be carried out. matt, one of the potential americans who may be released is "wall street journal's" evan gershkovich. you're friends with him. what does this moment look like, do you think, for him and so many others as we await news about this? >> well, i think a lot, jose, about what evan gershkovich must be experiencing, what he's been experiencing and definitely if he's part of what's going on today, what that process must have been looking like.

we don't specifically know where he's been held quite recently in russia as his trial moved to ekaterinburg where he was arrested. the conditions were unclear. but it seems as if he's largely been held alone, hasn't had very much contact recently with the outside world. so you imagine a situation where he's suddenly moved and maybe somewhere is put in a room, put on another plane, with a number of other people that as one of the main western journalists who have been working in russia in the past few years are characters and stories we have all been covering and we all know quite well, presumably. so, it must be an interesting experience. but we just don't know so much about what the conditions have been like for him. this has been very difficult for his family, for a lot of his friends as well. and i think everyone throughout the entire community who know evan gershkovich, the former moscow current moscow correspondents, everyone involved in watching russia,

familiar with his work, this has been -- it has been a difficult situation to watch develop. with his sentencing last week, it is -- it has been one of the situations where if you know him, you're looking for hope in a situation that you as a professional journalist who covers russia understands is largely hopeless. the russian judicial system has one of the highest conviction rates in the world. it is rare to be acquitted for any charges brought against you and that's across the entire russian legal system. just about 1% of cases. if we look at espionage cases, the situation is significantly worse. i'm not aware of anyone getting off -- or dodging an espionage allegation in russia, so, it is very difficult position to be in if you know him, if you've worked with him, because everything as a reporter is telling you that a trade might not be possible. we don't know if it is possible, of course. and so it has been kind of juggling that the whole time throughout this, jose. >> i'm thinking of paul whelan and his family.

he's been -- as we were just hearing from allie, detained since 2018. and so very little has been heard of or about him in that time period. i know you've -- we're all dealing with very limited details right now. there is something under way and we have to be very cautious about what we say and what we don't say, but in a broad sense, how does this compare to past prisoner swaps you've covered? >> i think this is obviously more extensive, given what the turks are saying about the number of prisoners involved, number of countries involved. it looks like some sort of a -- the trick all along has been that the russians were insisting on the release of a man named vadim who is a russian assassin, convicted in germany and the germans were understandably reluctant to release an assassin, exchanged for let's say a journalist who is only arrested for doing his job.

so, this has been a stumbling block all along. how do you come up with a trade that seems fair and just to the western side, to both the americans and the germans and anybody else who might be involved and still be attractive enough to vladimir putin to get him to release the hostage he's been holding as, you know, as playing cards in effect. i think this has been going on for months. whatever is happening today, you know, has been the goal for a long time. and we saw evan's trial, which a lot of people interpreted as a way for the russians to clear the decks because they're never going to release anybody until that conviction takes place because they don't want to admit it was a wrongful detention. but here we are, in july, and all of these people who have been locked up for so long have been waiting for this for a moment like this where the turks are saying is correct. >> and, you know, just to think of that person that the russians are so keen on getting back in germany, on a regular day, you

know, went and shot somebody in the back of the head and so, you know, there are so many different pieces to this. courtney, what can you tell us about who may have been involved in securing this deal, which clearly seems to include -- to use peter's information, the germans, there are so many other countries that may be involved. >> yeah, and the individual you were referring to, jose, he is someone who has been part of negotiations for prisoner swaps that we have been hearing about for some time. he is being held by germany, he has a long list of potential ties to the fsb, potentially being a hit man, a criminal. he's someone who vladimir putin is said to really want to be released as part of a prisoner swap. we're still awaiting specific details that we can report on that. but he is one of the individuals who people are looking at as potentially, you know, may be part of this. who would be involved in it?

because we're talking about multiple countries here, there would have been a lot of different individuals. from the u.s. government side, of course, the white house, the state department very involved, there is someone at the state department who a lot of people may not know, the office of the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs. a gentleman named roger carstens runs it. i interviewed him a couple of weeks ago. the day before evan gershkovich was put back on trial where he was convicted and sentenced to serve in prison in russia, about two weeks ago, but roger carstens and his office along with a number of ngos and other members of the u.s. government, they are directly involved in these sorts of negotiations. so, they will travel, they will be engaged with the families, they will talk to the people who are being held, roger explained to me that he would speak to evan and to paul whelan and to others who are being wrongfully detained in countries all over the world on a relatively regular basis and they are

engaged in this constant back and forth negotiating with governments. they also negotiated with terror groups, trying -- i've spoken with terror groups, trying to get americans who have been released out of various detention situations. so, they would have been directly most likely directly involved in this. we're waiting for more details on that. but this is really just the beginning for these people who are returning here to the united states, jose. they will still -- if they do decide to come back to the united states, however many of these people are released, they can then come back to the u.s., they will generally they will then go to a u.s. military facility where they will then go through a reintegration process, which i can explain a little bit more if our viewers are interested in that. >> no, listen, you can. let's do it. >> so, there is something that is generally done at san antonio at a place called brook army medical center.

where we have seen other people like brittney griner when they're brought back to the united states, what we civilians might call it a reintegration training, what they -- the military calls it post isolation situation awareness. where they call it pisov. they bring them back and put them through meetings with counselors, with doctors, they'll talk to people about what they went through. sometimes you have americans who are coming back who have been held for years in dangerous, deplorable conditions. they may need very basic reintegration on things like sleeping in a bed again. they may not have even been held in a room that had a bed. they may have to reacclimate themselves to things like sunlight. it can involve weeks of this training, the families will often be brought in as well where they will go through how they can help their loved one reacclimate to being back in the united states, being back in society. so, it is -- every situation is

different. they can go through this weeks long process. and i will say, brook army medical center where oftentimes people are brought back to after situations like this, it is said to be one of the best if not the best reacclimation or reintegration programs in the world. >> one of the most precious things a human can have is freedom. you've been part of efforts to get hostages before, and when courtney mentions that special presidential envoy on hostage affairs at the state department, it just -- richard, the ever increasing importance to rogue regimes and terrorist organizations of holding americans hostage. how do you deal with that from a diplomatic and a governmental perspective? >> with great difficulty, jose. it is not fair to use peter's phrase, it is not fair, it is just reality, we're an open society, we travel places, so

americans are vulnerable. and regimes like russia's as well as others take them for purposes such as this, they take innocent people and they trade them for agents of their state, in this case, a killer, an assassin. what we have to do as a country is make the difficult choices that sometimes, even if it is not fair, even if it is not even, we have to do it because the government has the responsibility to look after its citizens, after their welfare. i think the biden/harris administration made the difficult but correct choice to do this. takes a lot of investment of time. it happens slowly and then suddenly. that's how these things work. months or years of painstaking negotiations and then they suddenly come together. one other thing, there is other

downsides, putin can act with impunity, he can get his people off even if they do bad things, it encourages him to take more americans, and we shouldn't delude ourselves. this isn't going to be the opening of a new wonderful chapter of relations with russia. this is cold, narrow, transactional. mr. putin still remains as close to what we have as an international outlaw as there is. so this is quite, if you will, bounded. it is a necessary thing to do. there will be joy in certain families and anything but in those who weren't released, but this is one of the hard calls you sometimes have to make in government. and i think it was the right call, but, again, no one should underestimate how difficult it was. >> yeah, and alexander, really looking forward to your thought s on this, it is a difficult situation on a normal day. this is so complicated. so many countries involved. i'm thinking as richard was saying that the russian regime

is really a regime that in many ways benefits from things like taking american hostages and i'm thinking of their allies, the allies of president putin, maduro in venezuela, the castro regime in cuba, nicaragua sandinista regime. how do, alexander, maybe taking a step back, looking at the big picture, how do you see what's going on today? >> i see it as a demonstration of great skill on the part of the biden/harris administration. almost certainly i would be shocked to not -- to hear that jake sullivan was involved, antony blinken was involved, yes, there is lots of nuts and bolts conversations going on by the office that is responsible for hostage negotiations, but ultimately this is resolved as senior most levels with -- in a lot of cases maybe even principles.

i don't know if putin was involved in this one directly, but the next layer down would be involved in a lot of these conversations, national security council on the u.s. side and that's just in a typical bilet rawl situation. in this case, it had to do with multiple other states involved. this was a very well orchestrated hostage exchange. like i've been saying, it is really a demonstration of the extreme confidence of the art of the deal in diplomacy for the biden/harris administration. but there are really significant challenges here. i mean, it is a fundamental shift to recognize that your people are hostages, you're attempting to liberate and the other side, you're freeing hardened criminals. these aren't just hardened criminals acting on their own behalf, hardened criminals acting on the russian state's behalf. cybercriminals, folks involved in extortion, folks involved in

running around sanctions, assassins that are directly connected to the intelligence circuit. it is a switch that you have to make for practical reasons. on the basis of securing your own unjustly detained personnel and the administration will see how this unfolds, but the administration should get a lot of credit for making some hard calls and getting something this complex orchestrated. >> do we know if the president is going to be making a public address on this issue today? >> at this point, nothing has been confirmed. presumably the president is waiting for that good news that these prisoners have arrived back on u.s. soil. it wouldn't be unprecedented. it is something we have seen president biden do in past scenarios that involve wrongfully detained prisoners that have returned back to the u.s. but, of course, no plans on the books at this moment.

at the end of the day, no doubt this is seen, if this does come to fruition as a huge accomplishment for this president who is ending his term in office in just a few months. and, of course, we have seen and heard this president for years now tout his foreign policy chops, tout the fact he has long-standing alliances and relationships with world leaders, that if this does come to fruition, we could presumely credit those long-standing relationships and presume this is something that the president will want to talk about if this again does end up in a successful prisoner swap. >> peter, how do you see the -- clearly the international multinational aspect of this. peter, this is -- this is something that as -- we have been talking about it with richard as well, it is something that really must have taken a lot of time and a lot of moving pieces over a long period of

time. >> yeah, i think that's right. i think richard is right, gradually and then suddenly. we know they had these conversations before when they did release brittney griner, they talked about the russian assassin, they did talk about paul whelan, they have been talking about these people literally now for years. how this specifically came together, if the turks are right and it is happening right now, you know, we'll learn more obviously. but it is a complicated diplomatic maneuver here, particularly in the middle of a war that we are fighting in effect through, you know, through the ukrainians on ukrainian territory. russians are fighting, our allies, the friends, the ukrainians and using american-provided weapons to fight against the russians. it is not complicated. this is so complicated. you have the extra layer of

politics. putin thinks he'll get a better deal in ukraine if donald trump wins. so then what is the motive for him to make this deal now? and a lot of people will be asking that question. what is going through his mind, what does he think he's getting out of it, what game is he playing to go ahead with a swap now as opposed to waiting to see what the results of the election might be. and so there is a lot of things to chew on here. >> yeah. and this is being reported right now by "the wall street journal." this, again, is just coming over "the wall street journal" is -- that evan gershkovich is free, he is in u.s. custody as is paul whelan. and that is just coming over. that according to these sources, both paul whelan and evan gershkovich are in united states custody. they're free.

right now. and, again, alexander, when you hear this, it is just so monumental and we think of whelan who has been in prison there since 2018, what are your thoughts? >> i was sitting in the office that was responsible for russia, u.s.-russia policy and the name paul whelan came up repeatedly after he was detained. this was going to be a difficult negotiation. it took, for his family, from his family's perspective, it took way too long. i'm sure there is enormous joy about the fact he's now back -- he's going to be back with his family. same thing with regards to evan. i really also have to think about the injustice for the victims of the russians, those folks were experiencing some degree of peace with regard to the fact that hardened criminals

involved in various different kinds of crimes were behind bars. so i'm sure that they are, you know, saddened by the fact that these criminals are released on the russian side. but all and all, we did what we needed to do for our people to get them out and we shouldn't think about this kind of hostage swap in a broader context, with regard to other criminal regimes. russia is an outlier. russia is a unique set of circumstances, we always treated russia differently based on the fact that as a large conventional military, a nuclea stockpile and we treat them differently. i wouldn't say this is going to result in an explosion of hostage exchanges around the world. we wouldn't treat other regimes that took hostages, american hostages the same way. but i'm really frankly quite glad that these two americans and potentially other folks that

i know and consider friends have also been released from wrongful detention. so i'll take it for what it is right now, and be happy for those families that are have their friends and family back. >> great point. reaffirming, these are the two names that we are getting confirmation of. but this continues and i'm just thinking, i want to bring in ken dilanian with us. what is the latest on this? >> i believe we're now free to report there are four americans being released in this prisoner swap including the two you just discussed. also the dissident vladimir karamerza who was poisoned in moscow allegedly by the kremlin in 2015 and then a fourth individual, a russian american journalist for the u.s. funded radio free europe radio liberty. so taking a step back here, u.s. officials are calling this the biggest prisoner swap since the height of the cold war and

perhaps ever. this involved multiple countries, including germany, poland, norway, slovenia, and the russians are getting a lot out of this. it is a great day for the four americans and their families who have been released. but the russians are getting -- as has been discussed earlier in the hour -- an alleged assassin who is being held in germany and who was in prisoned after allegedly using a silenced pistol to assassinate a chechen militant who sought asylum in germany. the russians are getting some american prisoners, people who have been lawfully convicted by the fbi and the justice department. the u.s. doesn't hold russians convicted of espionage, but does hold a number of people in prison with alleged ties to russian intelligence who have been convicted of hacking, fraud and other kinds of things. one of these people is vladimir kushin sentenced to nine years

in september 2023. he claimed to have turned down efforts to recruit him by the cia and britain's mi-6. he's one of the people we understand who is being released in this swap. another person is vadim kanasenak, extradited to the u.s. on an indictment charging him with conspiracy and other charges related to a global procurement and money laundering network on behalf of the russian government. he reportedly had ties to russia's federal securities service, he had not been tried and convicted. i know -- i covered the justice department, that really sticks in the crawl of fbi and doj officials. they understand that once somebody is convicted and sentenced, the president has a right to commute their sentence, but they are loathe to give people up who haven't been tried. but in this case, they're doing it, they understand why it has to be done. a third russian who is being released today is roman

celiznef, admitted to involvement in a $50 million online identity theft scheme. and justice department intelligence officials i speak to understand why deals like this have to be made. but they are concerned that they will incentivize rogue governments to grab more americans and westerners on bogus charges. that's one reason the state department has a level four travel warning urging americans to stay out of russia and cite the risk of unjust detention. >> matt, want to use your expertise at this moment. when we're listening and now a lot more of the details are coming out. we're working to just give you information that we can confirm. but it could be up to 20 something amount of people being exchanged. seven or more countries being involved. and i'm just thinking, matt,

your experience in russia, and how this is going to be perceived. >> very good question, jose. we can look at the previous prisoner swaps that happened over the past few years, particularly brittney griner for the arms dealer, viktor bout. as soon as bout was transferred into russian custody, there were cameras on his flight back to moscow. he has official status in moscow now. he's living well. he's a bit of a celebrity. and we have seen this each time. taking the clock even further back, back to the early 2010s, anna champman, the russian spy, that would have been the previously largest since the cold war spy trade. she has had official legislative positions in moscow, she's had fashion lines and shows. so, these russian criminals, russian spies get traded and they go back and they're essentially welcomed as heroes.

viktor bout was treated as a victim of the american prison system and it is a good segue into why russia does this and why they have been doing this. it is very good to hear that paul whelan is on his way home. he is the first iteration of this sort of modern form of this russian behavior, of taking americans to try to leverage them to get back criminals and spies. they had him since december 2018. and it was very clear to i think everyone in moscow at the time who they wanted. that was viktor bout. also constantine yaroshenko, a similar background to bout, arms dealer, suspected ties to russian intelligence, and they weren't getting what they wanted. over time you could see other americans taken, lesser profile, whelan was always the big case because of the espionage charge. so, when evan gershkovich was arrested and faced the same charges, it very much was very

clearly appearing to be an escalation of the russian policy. the difference between the two cases is whelan happened in 2018, very different time in russian history. and recent russian history even. and evan gershkovich was arrested a year into the war. very different situation in the cases here. so, russia has gotten more antagonistic, more committed to being antagonistic to the u.s., toward the united states. that's why we have seen everything we have seen from them on evan gershkovich's case and it is interesting now that they have chosen to make this trade. the timing of it, there is a lot of questions, a lot of history to go through on this trade, indications this may have been in the works months ago. i recall that shortly after the death of the opposition leader alexei navalny, one of his close associates made a claim that a

trade was in the works, that involved some of these americans, and other russian political prisoners, and alexei navalny, so getting him out of the country and president putin has been asked about this as well. keir simmons asked him back in march after the russian presidential election, when putin was re-elected, asked him about gershkovich and asked him about navalny and president putin said that he essentially his aides came to him with a proposal for a trade that involved navalny, these americans, that we had mentioned. and he said that he instantly said yes to this. but then navalny sadly died and the trade didn't go through. so i think there will be interesting things to re-examine in light of that now, how this came together, how long this has been going on. but the big question to me, jose, is why right now. >> yeah. if you would, everyone, stay with us. we have got a whole lot more to go through, throughout this hour as we get up to the minute information on this important

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kurmasheva, and journalist and activist vladimir kara-murza. want to bring back christopher o'leary, former director of hostage recovery for the united states government and senior vice president for global operations at the sofan group. thank you. it is, well, you've been involved in different aspects throughout the years, deals, but what is your reaction to what we're seeing today? >> i think you covered quite a bit of it. it is a difficult choice to make with russia to do these exchanges. it is -- they're unlawfully detained. hostage diplomacy. it is russia and other bad actors around the world taking americans, and exploiting them because they're americans, they're american citizens and they have the leverage to try to get concessions. but this administration and previous administrations have shown that we put a real value on american citizens and we're

going to go to whatever lengths we need to do to secure their release. i will say this administration in particular with the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, ambassador roger carstens, has been incredibly effective at doing this. they have secured more releases than any other previous administration. part of that is because the practice of hostage diplomacy has become more routine. but it is also because roger carstens, the one leading the shop, is working tirelessly to do this. and, i mean, this is becoming norm reporting on this because he is around the world all the time and going after this and making sure we're getting americans out no matter what it requires. >> and, christopher, there is no doubt that that had a major impact, but then there is also the question of what vladimir putin and why he and what he is getting out of it and why now.

>> the question is why now. part of it, yes, he's getting an fsb officer who it was very difficult to get him back and they certainly want him back. it could be an opportunity to normalize some negotiations and demonstrate that they're willing to have exchanges with the united states and others, maybe on issues with ukraine moving forward or potentially with the soviet union to be cessation of the last start iteration. so, starting these diplomatic negotiations on something like this could normalize things and demonstrate that they are, you know, reasonable actors in some space. this is something that it doesn't benefit them to have, you know, evan or any of the other detainees die in prison. but, you know, they would have been held under harsh treatment and forced labor camps and the long-term outcome is not good

for any of these folks held in russia. so, they used it, they use it as leverage, and they're getting concessions. it is also demonstrating some strength to the russian people. this is for sure all engineered and approved on the russian side by, you know, vladimir putin. but on the united states side, it does go all the way up to the principles committee and ultimately the decision of the president because each of the agencies has some stake in this within the united states. so, you know, the fbi and doj might have one opinion about releasing folks that we have had an investigation on or who have been convicted. the agency -- the cia might have some concerns about releasing this fsb officer or a former, you know, one of the prisoners who has some connections to russian intelligence as well, so everybody has a say in this, but

the office is the coordinator for all of this, secretary blinken definitely involved, but it does go all the way up to potus through the nsc, under the homeland security adviser and jake sullivan the national security adviser. >> i can't thank you enough for being with us this morning. very much appreciate your time. and there are other sources, because of the nature of this swap, which is the largest certainly since the cold war, maybe the largest ever, there is some other countries involved, we talked about germany. but in this coming out of spain from a number of sources including espanol that a spanish journalist who has been in prison in poland since february of 2022, accused of spying for russia, something that this journalist has denied consistently, has been released and according to his family is

now sent back to russia where he was born, even though he is a spanish citizen. it just shows you the many different pieces and the many different countries that have been involved in this. and i'm just wondering, as we continue to monitor what the white house certainly there has been a major role bit president of the united states in all of this. allie raffa, do we have any information on what the president is planning to do or say? >> yeah, jose. we're just getting some new details from the white house that now says that the president is going to address the nation at noon from the state dining room of the white house. a senior administration official also saying that the president will meet with the families of these prisoners that have been released today, in the oval office. and we have just received a statement from president biden directly, just in the last few seconds here, and i can read that to you, he says today three

american citizens and one american green cardholder unjustly imprisoned in russia are finally coming home. he lists the names of the four individuals. he says that the deal that secured their freedom was a feat of diplomacy, that they have negotiated the release of 16 people from russia. he continues, he says all have endured unimaginable suffering and uncertainty. he says today their agony is over. he thanks the u.s. allies who he says stood with us throughout tough, complex negotiations to achieve this outcome, including germany, poland, slovenia, norway and turkey. our alliances make americans safer and he wraps with this, he says let me be clear, i will not stop working until every american wrongfully detained or held hostage around the world is reunited with their family. he says his administration has

brought home over 70 such americans, many of whom were in captivity since before he took office. he says that today he celebrates the return of paul, evan, alsu and vladimir and rejoice with their families. we remember all those still wrongly detained around the world and we will never stop working to bring your loved one ho s home where they belong. we expect to hear more about the process behind this historic prisoner swap, when the president addresses the nation. the white house says at noon from the state dining room. but earlier today, a senior administration official had really gone into the details of the president's work behind the scenes on this. even saying that just an hour before the president made that historic announcement that he was not going to run for re-election, now almost two weeks ago, that he was, quote, on the phone with his slovenian counterpart urging them to make the final arrangements and to

get this deal over the finish line. a senior administration official also crediting the long alliances, long relationships that the president has had with world leaders, specifically the chancellor of germany who he says was critical to this deal coming to fruition. he says that olaf scholz at one point told the president, for you, i will do this. that is especially notable because one of the prisoners that russia was interested in getting back was in german custody. so, we know that these talks have been happening for years now. but, of course, this in the last two weeks seems to have picked up the pace and now comes to fruition, jose. >> courtney kube, no information out of the pentagon? >> yeah, vadim what we have learned in the past few hours is that he was really the key here to this entire deal coming together. now, as she was saying, for years now, as part of these swap

negotiations, the russians have made it clear that he was the person that they wanted released. but the americans' problem or difficulty was he was being held by germany. as we have learned in the last few hours now is that in a conversation with president biden and german chancellor olaf scholz the german chancellor said something to the effect of, well, for you, president biden, i will do this. once it was clear that they would be able to get him out of a german prison and sent back to russia, many of the other dominos sort of fell into place that made this entire enormous prisoner swap ready. again, multiple countries involved, multiple prisoners involved in this swap. i want to talk about one who she is up on our screen right now, alsu kurmasheva. a lot of our viewers may not be familiar with her because her case did not get as much attention. she's a russian american, she's a dual citizen, she's been living in brussels as a reporter

for radio free europe. she was actually -- she traveled to russia in 2023, to visit her mother, when she was detained in october of 2023 and accused of being a spy. now, her case, we have been hearing a lot this morning over the last hour or so, about the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, as we were hearing the previous guest talk about, it is often referred to as speha. they did not take on her case. that's one of the challenges that many of these negotiators, like carstens and his staff and the colleagues at the state department deal with is when to take on the cases and when not to. despite the fact she was not designated as someone who was being unlawfully or wrongfully detained in russia, she was part of this swap. again, she is a reporter, based in brussels, has american citizenship and her husband and her children have been very outspoken about her case. but it hasn't gotten as much attention here in the united

states, jose. in the coming hours, because of just the number of individuals who are involved in this, i'm sure we'll learn more about them. there are other americans who are still being held who were not a part of this. and i suspect some of their families will speak out about that as well today, jose. >> we expect the president of the united states, according to allie raffa's reporting to speak to the nation 15 minutes from now. and i want to, as i bring in david rhode, i want to just read a little bit more about what the president had to say in his written statement as we await his actual speech about 15 minutes. the deal that secured their freedom was a feat of diplomacy. this is according to president biden. all told, we have negotiated the release of 16 people from russia, including five germans and seven russian citizens who were political prisoners in their own country. and then he goes on to say, i am

grateful to our allies who stood with us throughout tough, complex negotiations to achieve this outcome, including germany, poland, slovenia, norway, and turkey. bringing back the issue of turkey, that is where we understand a lot of those swaps occurred in that international airport at ankara, the turkish capital. just thinking, david, you know, about people unjustly detained, or unjustly held for years. david, this kind of, you know, goes very much to your even personal story, what do you think are the benefits and then maybe the dangers or the peril of behind something like this? >> what changed in recent years, i was held many years ago by the taliban, but after the 9/11 you had mostly extremist groups and

criminal organizations kidnapping americans around the world. and it has changed now. other than hamas, which i want to emphasize the kidnapping of 230 people in gaza and then holding them in gaza was unprecedented. there has been a rise in state hostage taking. this is a diplomatic success. but the breadth of this deal, the number of countries involved shows that state hostage taking, the intentional arrest of these innocent americans and people of other nationalities by vladimir putin is allowing him to free different -- as far as we can tell russian operatives around the world. one in germany convicted of murder. the national security implications are how do you counter this increasing trend. iran as a state has also been taking americans and other nationals hostage. venezuela did. so there is a need for a long-term, i think, u.s.-led strategy by many, many nations together to create a cost for this, for russia, for iran, for

venezuela, and then for hamas as i mentioned earlier. hostage taking is growing, it is at an unprecedented level, i think for the last several decades. and it has to be addressed with some sort of strategy. >> and of those hostages that were taken by hamas, 300 days ago, since the end of october, more than 100 are still in hamas hands and no proof of life, no access to international organizations. nothing. alexander vindman, i'm curious, from your perspective, and listening to what the president wrote about, about just the breadth of this extraordinarily difficult process that was just right now concluded with so many people being released and so many, up to 26, maybe being exchanged. what is it that american

policymakers and those who analyze it, for example, take into consideration and weigh in something like this? >> well, i think the fact is we start from the standpoint of we have wrongfully detained persons on our side and we're giving away hardened criminals, folks that have been acting against individual citizens' interests, acting against u.s. national security interests. but i do want to comment on why now. it is a question why vladimir putin may have acted now. he has a strong pragmatic streak. he's transactional. the fact that he was willing to do something for joe biden that he would never have done for donald trump because that relationship doesn't exist. trump is adversarial to our allies. vladimir putin saw an

opportunity to release someone, just like bout was in the previous exchange. this would not happen under a future trump administration. this is an opportunity to get the wish list accomplished. i think that's one of the reasons that it's important to have strong u.s. diplomacy, strong u.s. relationships is that you can get things that are seemingly impossible accomplishedyour adversaries see it that there's a way to do this. it's not going to mean breakthroughs in other areas. we won't see talks in ukraine. but in this one area, u.s. diplomacy came through strong. >> i want to bring in julie tsirkin on capitol hill. is there any reaction? >> reporter: there is.

obviously, everybody is being very careful. we know that at least some senior officials have been briefed by the administration, were aware, had some semblance that this was going to happen. that includes leader schumer and speaker johnson who were both briefed, both given a heads up that this operation was going to take place today. extremely significant. we have been hearing reaction from democrats and republicans, both on camera on capitol hill and in the form of statements. listen to what chris coons, a senior democrat, had to tell us last hour. >> reporter: certainly, a big

day for the americans and the families. we are seeing statements from top republicans on the relevant committees, armed services, who are saying they are celebrating this release. they are bringing attention to something you heard from others during your program, jose. what this says about the future of the swaps, this perhaps could embolden putin to think he could take more hostages to get this kind of pressure campaign against the u.s. and to release some of their criminals that are being held. we heard, for example, from senator wicker who said this exchange speaks volumes about what our two countries value. vladimir putin is getting back thugs, murders and criminals. the united states is welcoming home journalists, voices for democracy and former service members. >> thank you very much. i want to go back to matt. your knowledge of russia and the

history of russia through the soviet union and before. matt, the fact that vladimir kara-murza was released today, is it that putin feels he is not as important as -- to hold him anymore? >> it's an interesting question. i think on the one hand, russia really wanted their hitman back from berlin. a certain conglomeration of potential prisoners to swap for that guy was reached in the end. it's an interesting thing. it brings us into a larger discussion on the state of the russian opposition and how the kremlin views the opposition and their confidence with their state of control over the country. to answer the question plainly, i would say it's a sign that the kremlin is not overly concerned

with him. we are hearing reports that other prominent russian opposition figures are part of this. i'm trying to work out the details on the russian side on that. i think the clear message is the kremlin is not concerned with the opposition at this point in time. if you look from the outside in, the kremlin's control over the narrative, over the power in russia, have not looked so sturdy in some time. putin faced several challenges since the war he started. he has weathered all of them. i think he is getting rid of the opposition leaders, mostly wants the hitmen back. the russian opposition from abroad doesn't seem to be that threatening to the kremlin at this moment. >> matt, julie, courtney, ken, alexander, david, thank you all so very much for being with us. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell is up next.

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good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. it's a day many of us have been hoping for. evan gershkovich and paul whelan are coming home, along with two others. they are officially now in american custody, along with another american citizen and one american green card holder in a