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extraordinarily complex and fraught negotiations going back nearly two years, and ultimately involving seven different countries and two dozen prisoners. justice a short time ago, president biden was joined by the families of those now former prisoners to celebrate this moment. >> today we're bringing home paul, evan, alsu, vladimir, three american citizens and one american green card holder. all four have been imprisoned unjustly in russia, and now their brutal ordeal is over, and they're free. moments ago their families and i were able to speak on the telephone from the oval office. they are out of russia, they were flown to turkey, and soon they will be wheels up on their way home to see their families. >> the personal role in the long and complicated negotiations

draws a fascinating contrast to what we have heard from donald trump, who said it would have been easy to get the prisoners home. the president was reminded of that and here's what he said. >> president trump has said repeatedly that he could have gotten the hostages out without giving anything in exchange, what do you say to that? what do you say to president trump now, former president trump? >> why didn't he do it when he was president? >> i want to note that we are also expecting a white house briefing at any moment, and we will have that for you live when it happens. we have every angle of this story covered for you, nbc's gabe gutierrez is at the white house, nbc's chief international correspondent keir simmons joins me from paris. peter baker is "the new york times" chief white house correspondent and msnbc political analyst. michael crowley is "the new york times" diplomatic correspondent, eddie glaude is a princeton university professor and msnbc contributor. with me here in studio, rick steng el, former under secretary of state for public affairs and public diplomacy, as well as

msnbc political analyst. christopher o'leary is former director of hostage recovery for the u.s. government and i want to thank all of you for being here on this historic day. gabe, bring us up to speed, what is the latest? >> reporter: this deal has been in the works for two years. just a short time ago, president biden calling this a feat of diplomacy. as you alluded to this, this is a pillar of his administration, preserving global alliances. we heard it several weeks ago at the nato summit in washington. this prison swap has come to fruition. i want to go into details about how this prisoner swap came together, citing a senior administration official. this had been in the works for two years, and taken on various iterations since the effort began in december of 2022. that's just after brittney

griner was released in a prisoner exchange. this was negotiated through intelligence channels, led by the cia. and the russians would not agree to a swap without vadim krasikov. he was that assassin in germany who was convicted of murder. the germans would not agree to any type of prisoner swap without him involved. secretary of state antony blinken was the first official, according to a senior administration official to reach out to russia about the deal after griner's release through his russian counter part, sergey lavrov. jake sullivan, the national security adviser here at the white house, he was engaging his german counter part throughout 2023 and 2024, but the real breakthrough in this, chris, was in january of 2024, when president biden called the german chancellor and invited him to the white house. the president told the chancellor that a prisoner swap would be on the agenda for the meeting, and the goal was for a

deal to include alexei navalny and the release of vadim krasikov. things changed after alexei na valueny was found, and that really knocked the sails -- the wind out of the sails of the negotiations. when navalny died, the idea of a swap involving navalny and vadim krasikov, as well as whelan and gershkovich, the white house had to agree to a plan b. there was a lot of back and forth over the next few months, and as we were told, this was ongoing up until the last couple of days, chris, that the president was on the phone with slovenian officials just an hour before he announced that he was stepping aside from the presidential race. because you can imagine how much of a dramatic moment that was.

also, earlier this year, we heard from a senior administration official that the german chancellor told president biden that for you, i will do this, signaling just how big of a stepping -- just a big step that president biden had to do in order to get the germans on board, so, chris, again, this is being seen as a win for the biden administration. there are a lot of questions about what might happen to other americans still detained in russia, including marc fogel. but the biden administration is saying at this point that some tough decisions had to be made, and again, the president calling this a very good afternoon and a feat for diplomacy. >> thank you so much for that, gabe. chris, you know how complicated even i would say the most straightforward, if there is such a thing, of negotiations like this could go, but as gabe just pointed out, this was very complicated every step of the way. you could see where every step

o. way, something could and in a few cases did put it off track. is it fair to call this a feat of diplomacy? >> it is. just within the u.s. government, getting it through the bureaucratic of the u.s. government is a feat in and of itself. all three branches of government are involved in this. all three have different, you know, equities in this, some do not want it to happen. or in a political season, that's going to be incorporated. it starts, you know, hrg, the national security council, hostage recovery group, starting to synchronize action. it will go up to the deputies and ultimately this is the president's decision. having director burns involved who's a career diplomat, who's also in the intelligence community now, he's gifted at this, but also the special

presidential envoy, roger carstans, he has been relentless in this work and incredibly effective. he started in the trump administration and continued over in the biden administration. he's a close friend and colleague and was a great partner when i was still in government and he has a great track record in pulling this together. he is never home also, though. >> yeah, there's so many aspects of this. one of them is joe biden, right, his long relationship, his long experience in foreign affairs. personal relationships and that kind of biting comment to donald trump, but also backed up with the facts that we know how many other foreign leaders, how many other foreign diplomats had to be involved in this to get it done, and what this says about, honestly, what's been argued from the left and the right, rick stengel. how important those relationships can be? >> absolutely. i mean, this was a three

dimensional chess game, and relationships matter. allies matter. the fact that biden has had decades long relationships with these countries and these leaders with german leader, you have to negotiate with someone who wants to do you a favor, who trusts that you have skin in the game, that you're going to not betray that person. biden is that person for all of these other folkings. -- folks. that's why allies matter. diplomacy, it's a word that americans don't understand, no one elects someone because of their diplomacy. diplomacy means talking, keep talking no matter what. that's what diplomats do. that's what's so important. that's how you develop those relationships and that is what you need in an administration. the previous administration wasn't having those conversations. this administration is. >> you know, peter, one of the most extraordinary details that we have learned about and that you folks have reported as well as we have is that that hour

before president biden dropped out of the race for president, he's calling the prime minister of slovenia whose country was contributing to convicted russian spies to the swap to secure the pardon needed for the deal to proceed, what can you tell us about the white house, the state department, others within the administration, and how they worked toward and prioritized this deal? >> yeah, i mean, that's just a striking anecdote, such a striking part of the story that the president of the united states is in isolation in rehoboth beach, delaware, dealing with the biggest crisis of his career, whether he should stay in the race or not, under pressure from fellow democrats who think he can not win anymore, and he's coming around, and he has to drop out, which is a crushing blow for somebody who has been in politics for 50 years. at the same time, he has to be juggling this complicated diplomacy. it's not an easy thing, but it is an important thing. there he is, an hour before he drops out of the race on the

phone with the slovenian prime ministers, ask the slovenian prime minister to participate in this deal, and he hangs up the phone, and within an hour or so, just a little over an hour, he says i will no longer run for president for a second term. what an extraordinary day in the life of a president. it talks about his own, you know, the requirements of a president to juggle your own personal ambitions with the duties of the office. right, your duties are not just to your own career but to the americans that you represent, and you lead as a president. i think that when the history books are written, that day will be prominently featured. >> yeah, i think some of what is written may be a little different than instantaneously was assumed in the moment. eddie, there's going to be a lot of joy in watching those families walk out with the president of the united states and knowing all that they have been through for months and in some cases years. there will be sorrow elsewhere for those still being held, and we should note that according to

one report, i think it's 40 americans are still being held unlawfully in a dozen countries worldwide, but as the conversations are held across america, including on this program about the politics of this, eddie, can you talk about how a divided country, and maybe also one arguably hungry for some good news can process this moment? >> well, hopefully, first of all, chris, you hit it right on the head. we can talk about the geopolitical intrigue. we can talk about what's been going on for the last two years, and last two weeks. we can accent another example of how consequential joe biden's presidency has been, and perhaps will be over these last few months, but we cannot lose sight of the human element, and the human element is really really powerful here. you know, you have mothers and fathers, daughters and sons, sisters and brothers, friends who are joyous today because they will have their family members back.

they thought they could have lost them. they didn't know when they could have them. they were living in the midst of the unknown, and now because of a persistent to echo richard's point, not just simply talking, but talking with. not necessarily talking at. talking with our allies, talking with russia to make sure that we can bring these folks home. as we tell the story of the politics, as we tell the story of the diplomacy, let's not forget the human element, that there's some families today that are going to celebrate. can you imagine the dinner table tonight as they know that their family members are coming home? >> yeah, there's going to be a long road ahead. it is extraordinary to think that many emotions, there have been other times when they thought perhaps their family member might come home, and now it's actually happening. michael, let's talk about how the families have played a role in all of this. you know, for a long time, we thought a lot of hostage families in the past stayed quiet. there was concern they might say

something that could jeopardize the possibility of a deal, that might raise questions with the other country that was involved in some kind of negotiations. but in the case of brittney griner in 2022, certainly in evan and paul's case, their families, their friends have been out front and center, trying to keep their plight, trying to keep their unlawful imprisonment front and center, so while these swaps obviously are ultimately resolved at the highest level, vladimir putin, joe biden, what role do families play in all of this, michael? >> yeah, absolutely, chris. this is one of the interesting dynamics of these hostage swaps that seem to be becoming increasingly common, is that the families are now these active participants. you almost get to know them as characters in the media if you're following these cases, and, you know, i was struck in a statement released today by the whelan family. there was a paragraph that said

they were initially, and i know this has been true in other cases with other families, they were initially advised to stay quiet, let's keep this quiet, keep the temperature low, because more attention, families are often told in the beginning, more attention will only essentially raise the asking price for your loved one. the more this person is seen as somebody that there's a lot of political pressure for the u.s. to return, the more russia or iran or whatever country is holding them is going to ask in return, and that's going to make it more difficult. what we have seen over and over, and what whelan family said in their statement, they came to believe that media attention was actually incredibly useful to them, and press attention kept the u.s. government focused on the case, and you know, kept it from fading away. >> michael, i have to interrupt you, and i apologize for that,

but karine jean-pierre is at the podium in the white house briefing room. let's listen in. >> i know for a lot of reporters in this room, especially "wall street journal" team, this is personal. and i know for the families of paul, evan, alsu, and vladimir, it's one of the best days of their lives. as president biden said in his statement, as we celebrate the return of these brave americans, we remember all of those still wrongfully detained or held hostage around the world. and reaffirm our pledge to their families. we see you. we are with you, and we will never stop working to bring your loved ones home where they belong. and with that, i'll turn it over to our national security adviser. >> today, you have seen and heard from the president and

karine, paul whelan, evan gershkovich, alsu kurmasheva, three american citizens and one american green card holder are finally coming home. as he shared the news with the families and together they spoke with paul, evan, alsu and vladimir who were on the tarmac. to say everyone in the room was overjoyed, even at a loss for words is an understatement. since taking office, president biden and vice president harris have made clear that they will not stop working until every american wrongfully detained or held hostage around the world is reunited with their family. as an administration, we're proud to celebrate the return home of over 70 such americans from places around the world like afghanistan, burma, haiti, rwanda, and elsewhere. today's exchange is a feat of

diplomacy that honestly could only be achieved by a leader like joe biden. at his direction, the professionals at the national security, foreign policy, and intelligence community work tirelessly and relently to secure the release of 16 individuals detained in russia, the three american citizens, one american green card holder, five german citizens and seven russian political prisoners in exchange for eight individuals held in a combination of the united states, germany, norway, slovenia, and poland. the president was himself personally engaged in the diplomacy that brought this about, including multiple conversations with chancellor scholz, with the other leaders of the countries who provided some of the russians exchanged and calling the prime minister of slovenia early in the afternoon of sunday, july 21st, to coordinate the final arrangements, to make the final piece of this deal fall into

place. the alliances that the president has reinvigorated around the world matter to americans, to the individual safety of americans and collective security of americans, and we're deeply grateful to our allies who supported us in these complex negotiations to achieve this outcome, and while i'm standing at this podium, the president is reaching out to give personal thanks to the leaders of germany, poland, slovenia, norway and turkey. i can say this was vintage joe biden, rallying and doing it with intricate state craft, pulling his team together across the state line. his goal has always been to put the families first, the families endure an unimaginable ordeal. from the president on down, we have stayed in regular and routine touch with them. i spent a lot of times with the

families of evan and paul and alsu, and most of the time as you can imagine, those are tough conversations. but not today. today, excuse me. today was a very good day, and we're going to build on it, drawing inspiration and continued courage from it, for all of those who were held hostage or wrongfully detained around the world, and that includes marc fogel who we are actively working to get his release from russia as well, and there are others being held in syria, afghanistan, other countries around the world who we are working to get released. just on a personal note i want to say this is the culmination of a monumental level of effort, and level of skill by my teammates across the national security enterprise. my colleagues here at the nsc, my colleagues at the central intelligence agency, my

colleagues at the state department, these are professionals who don't get to stand at a podium like this one, they pulled off the most intricate, expansive deal of its kind. they know who they are, i salute them, and every american should be proud to have those kinds of people standing up on their behalf and on behalf of american security. while this has unfolded, we have been monitoring the events in the middle east as well. since october 7th, we have worked to deter and prevent escalation into a wider regional war. that risk that has always been there. that risk is there now, and we are determined to engage in deterrence, defense, and deescalation to try to ensure that we do not have a wider regional conflict or escalation that goes unchecked. so i'm happy to get more into that in response to your questions and with that, i'll turn it over to you. >> thanks, jake, whose idea was it to try to go big and bring everyone home at once instead of going for a simpler one for one

type deal, and why? >> i don't feel entirely comfortable answering. what i will say is this, the president sat us down on a regular basis over the course of the detentions of paul, evan, and alsu, and really pushed us to think about what configuration would work to make this happen, and it was through an iterative process of back and forth with various allies i mentioned. with engagements, with our russian counter parts where we were making proposals, getting responses that this all came together. and so i would say that if you had not had joe biden sitting in the oval office, i don't think this would have happened. but as i said in my remarks, there were a lot of other people who played a central role in building out the pieces of this, and then executing on that, and the execution phase of this, to

get this level of coordination together to have those planes all land on the tarmac at the same time from multiple different countries with so many individuals coming from russia and going back to russia, really extraordinary, and i think, you know, a team effort can be a cliche. i think in this case, it's a warranted description of what happened. >> and was alexei navalny supposed to be a part of this deal before the died in prison? >> so we had been working with our partners on a deal that would have included alexei navalny, and unfortunately he died. in fact, on the very day that he died, i saw evan's parents and i told them that the president was determined to get this done even in light of that tragic news, and that we were going to workday and night to get to this day. and so continued over the past

few months and culminated in today. >> can you describe a little bit more color on the oval office conversation just before the president came out. did all four americans get to speak. did each of the family members get to speak to their loved ones. did the president tear up, did you tear up? >> i saved my tearing up for this podium. i would like to strike that for the record if we can do that. i don't know if that's permitted, probably not. so the president invited the family members in at the moment that we received from the tarmac that it was complete. and he was able to give them the news directly that the exchange was complete. then paul, evan and alsu were in one place. vladimir was in another place. he conducted two calls for the oval office, one with the three american citizens on the phone, and he welcomed their freedom

said, you know, that on behalf of the american people, he was so proud to have them out, and then very quickly turned the phone over to their family members, and each family got the opportunity to engage by phone with their loved one who was out. he conducted a second call with vladimir, and vladimir's wife, one of their daughters, and their son were there to be able to speak with him. and the president and he also got to reminisce on the fact that they were both pal bearers together at john mccain's funeral, and so it was a kind of extraordinary personal exchange in the oval office, and the family members were both overwhelmed, of course, but the events of the day, and also standing there in the presence of the u.s. president at the resolute desk, so it was quite a moment. >> and can you talk about how the administration tries to make

sure this doesn't incentivize more or less, beyond what the president says, not to go abroad in certain places, especially because you're look at this inherent imbalance between releasing, securing the release of americans or rightly convicted criminals. >> it's a fair question, it's a question that we grapple with every time that we look the hard decisions involved in one of these exchanges. it is difficult to send back a convicted criminal to secure the release of an innocent american. and yet sometimes the choices between doing that and consigning that person basically to live out their days in prison in a hostile foreign country or in the hands of a hostile power, so from our perspective, we have assessed and analyzed that risk and we have judged that the benefit of reuniting americans, of bringing people home, and

also of vindicating the idea that the american presidential and the american government are going to do what it takes to protect and secure the release of innocent americans that that benefit outweighs the risk and that's how we have proceeded. i would point out in addition to that that in periods of time when the u.s. government didn't tend to do prisoner exchanges, americans were unjustly detained and held hostages overseas. in periods where we did, americans were unjustly held hostage over seas. there are real questions, and the hostage negotiator at the state department has actually pointed out that in this analysis, it is not quite as clear cut that the evidence actually demonstrates the kind of result that your question speaks to, that, you know, a lot more people get taken because we do these exchanges. it's something that we have to pay attention to, and it's something that makes these decisions by the president not

simple decisions, hard decisions, and yet he was prepared to make them. >> when did it become clear that vadim krasikov was the lynch pin to a deal like this and was it in negotiations with brittney griner. >> there's not like a lightbulb moment when you say that position is immovable. that has to be tested and alternatives have to be suggested and proposals get put on the table, and rejected and new proposals and rejected, so it is less of a hot moment, okay. now we know. and it's more something that you accumulate through the experience of the negotiation. and so over the course of this negotiation, we did reach the conclusion that vadim krasikov was key. >> can you talk about the involvement the vice president

had. was she also speaking directly to other leaders and allies? >> as i said in my opening comments, both president biden and vice president harris have made the return of unjustly detained americans hostage, american hostages an absolute priority, and in this particular case, vice president harris actually had an opportunity to engage with chancellor scholz earlier this year at an opportune and timely moment at the munich security conference where she talked about this issue with him. that followed on a conversation that the president had just a short time before that, and was it in the run of high level engagements and a back and forth that the president and chancellor were having that vice president harris was able to sit face-to-face with chancellor scholz and talk through the elements of this. and then i've sat in the oval office more times than i can count over the course of the past years, providing briefings and updates on this and getting peppered with questions by both

the president and the vice president, thinking through the strategy, iterating the approach, which she was a participant in very much, core member of the team that helped make this happen. >> two questions, one as it relates to chancellor shorlz, help us understand, chancellor scholz had to make a sacrifice, giving up a russian criminal, what specifically did the german chancellor say to president biden about his willingness to do this? >> i will leave that to chancellor scholz, for important and sensitive conversations, leaders should speak for themselves. >> the white house said he said for you and then he said i will do this, is that fair, and if so, can you at least detail that. >> i can confirm that he did say that, but i thought you were asking sort of to elaborate in greater detail, which i'm afraid i don't feel comfortable doing. he can speak to his conversations with the president. what i will say, and president biden made this point when he spoke to the press just a short

time ago, that relationship between the president and the chancellor, relationship of respect, a relationship of genuine friendship, had the character of being able to work through this sensitive issue in a way that wasn't antiseptic or professional. it was two guys trying to figure out a solution. that was the nature of all of the conversations and ultimately the chancellor was able to say let's do this. >> today is clearly a day of celebration, but already there is some criticism, including from the republican vice presidential nominee, j.d. vance who moments ago said i think what this demonstrates, really what this shows is that a lot of bad guys across the world are worried that donald trump is coming back into office. your response to those comments? >> i don't follow. >> thank you, jake. >> can you talk about what if any engagement the u.s. officials had as vladimir putin as part of this. >> no engagement directly of vladimir putin. >> there was extensive

engagement with russian officials over the course of this. i'm not going to get into the details because those channels are sensitive, and need to be protected for exactly this reason. because having those sensitive channels enables us to produce results like today. >> last week in the oval office, president biden said he remains committed to bringing americans home during his final six months in office. how important was it for him to get this deal before leaving office? >> honestly, i don't think he was thinking about it like i got to get it before i leave office. he was thinking about it from the family's perspective, which is every day is a lost day, so i want to do this as rapidly as humanly possible. i want to push the pace on it because the longer that these americans are held abroad, the greater the risk and the greater the pain. so for him, it was really important to do the deal but less tied to his time in office, and more tied to the power and responsibility he had and wanted to exercise to get this done as

fast as he possibly could. >> i just want to follow up on this interaction with the russians. does this in any waylay any ground work for discussions about the war in ukraine? with the ukrainians? just to sort of say, look, we've cooperated on this. is there any path that this creates, any sort of goodwill in terms of, you know, creating more discussions? >> we do not see a link between the hostage negotiation or the detained persons negotiations and any potential diplomacy over the war in ukraine. we see those as operating on separate tracks. one is really about the practical issue of producing this exchange. the other is a more complex question where the ukrainians will be in the lead and the united states will consult closely with all of our allies to support them when they are prepared to step forward and engage in that kind of

diplomacy. >> if we can't ask what's happening in the middle east, and with the killing, can you please just give us your assessment of how high the temperature really is and how great the risks are now of an all out war or a bigger war? >> just taking a step back. we have been laser focused on trying to prevent the wider war on october 7th. there have been moments that have required intensive effort to keep a lid on things. the risk has always been there, and the risk remains today. and we believe we have to engage in intensive efforts through deterrence, deescalation, diplomacy, to prevent a wider war, and we will continue to do that. >> thanks, jake, back in may, former president trump made the comment that russia would

release evan gershkovich for him after the upcoming election, quote, but not for anyone else. did that comment complicate negotiations at all, and do you have a response to trump's comment now? >> look, i'm just happy these guys are out and home. i won't wade into the comments of the former president. >> what about jimmy wilgus, are you working on him? >> yeah. >> you note the president spoke to the leader slovenia at the time he was working on his decision about his political future, how much was the thinking that he had to go through on his future part of this process in leading up to these negotiations? was this something that weighed on him for days ahead of these calls? >> look, to be honest with you, the way in which this unfolded played out over the course of weeks, even months to put all of the pieces in place. so the timing and the cadence of

the different elements coming together was a feature of the diplomacy and the decision making of each of the countries involved. it wasn't about american politics, the american political calendar, presidents thinking on other issues, and it did happen to line up on that sunday in that way, but not through a conscious decision to make it so but rather that's because that's when the pieces were falling into place, and that's the moment that the president had to drop the final piece in, and it just so happened to come a couple of hours before he made his announcement. >> when do you think we'll see them on american soil, will the president greet them first? >> you can expect to see even, paul, and alsu later tonight on american soil. and as the president mentioned in his remarks earlier, they'll be landing at andrews air force base, the president and vice president will be out there to greet them.

vladimir putin kara-murza is traveling to germany, and his family who was here with the president this morning will be traveling there to join them, but as vladimir and the president discussed today, we expect him back here in the united states soon for him to be able to see the president and other people in the u.s. government. >> switching gears for a moment, i want to talk to you about 9/11 suspects by the military courts at guantanamo. republicans are calling this a sweetheart deal because it avoids a trial in the death penalty. i was wondering if the administration has any response to that? >> as we said last night, the white house received word that the convening authority had entered these pretrial agreements negotiated by military prosecutors with ksm and other 9/11 defendants, and we had no role in that process.

the president had no role. the vice president had no role. i had no role. the white house had no role, and we were informed yesterday the same day that they went out publicly that this pretrial agreement had been accepted by the convening authority. what the president did upon learning of that was direct his team to consult as appropriate with officials and lawyers at the department of defense on this matter. those consultations are ongoing and i have nothing more to add at this time. >> one more thing, on iran, israel, hamas negotiations, now that the lead hamas negotiator is dead, who is there to negotiate with, and why in your estimation would hamas continue towards negotiating a deal when the negotiator was killed by the people they're negotiating with? >> it is too soon to tell what the impact of his death will

have on the negotiations. and so i'm not going to speculate on that. especially in light of the broader dynamics and set of events unfolding in the region right now. what i will say is this, it is the pathway to getting all of the hostages home, including the american citizen hostages who are relentlessly focused on staying home, and we're determined to get it done. >> it the president have a call with prime minister netanyahu. >> i believe the israeli government had put out that they're having a call. we had not announced that, but the president is intend to go speak with prime minister netanyahu later today. they have not spoken yet. >> is the president going to express displeasure about not having a heads up about the hamas leader or other big things that have happened in the last

few days with israeli taking counter measures. >> i'm not going to preview the president's message before he has a chance to speak directly to the prime minister. >> just wondered if you could make clear when was the actual moment when you really knew that this deal was going to be done and that it was sealed or is that not really until today and you actually saw them, the released people on the tarmac? >> we steadily gained confidence following the president's call on the 21st of july. this is a fragile deal, a complex deal that could fall apart at any moment from multiple directions. we held our breath and crossed our fingers until a couple of hours ago. >> i wanted to ask about arms control treaties. it seems that russia has been backsliding when it comes to these deals. what is the update with that? is there any progress with getting them to rejoin any of these treaties?

>> no. the short answer is there is no progress. we have tried to engage, i have publicly stated and our colleagues have laid out our view that there is an arms control agenda that's in the interests of the security of the united states, our allies, and frankly, global stability. and we have not seen reciprocity on the russian side to engage in discussions at this time. we're obviously working very closely with nato, with our other allies and partners to ensure that our security is going to be strong, resilient, and credible no matter what comes next but we do remain available to engage in arms control as we did with the soviet union at the height of the cold war. last question. >> can you just confirm that no money was exchanged, no sanctions were loosened to facilitate this deal? >> yes, i can confirm that. >> can you also speak to why the president chose not to use his

moment if front of the cameras to deliver a warning to putin. i don't need to speak to putin. what he didn't convey was a price that countries will pay if they abduct americans for political purposes. >> we have made clear through every conceivable channel, and the president has made clear publicly on repeated occasions over the last two years about the costs and consequences of aggression, standing against united states' interests and of taking actions that we believe are unlawful and unjust. we're going to continue to do that as we go forward. for the president today, this was a moment to thank our allyings. it was a moment to celebrate the families, and most importantly it was a moment to lift up the human achievement of getting both americans, citizens of friendly countries and russian political prisoners out. but as the president said, he doesn't need to talk to putin for putin to understand where the president stands.

>> thank you, guys. >> what about jimmy wilgus, he has been there eight years, jake. eight years. >> all right. >> that was national security adviser jake sullivan on what he called a very good day. it's certainly a very good day for prisoners who have been held by russia unlawfully for months in some cases even years. an extraordinary day for their families as many of them met with president biden today at the white house and have been in touch with him through much of the time that these complex negotiations have been ongoing, and we even saw jake sullivan get a little bit emotional in the case of just how closely many of these diplomats, many of these administration officials have worked with the families and the emotional roller coaster and the fears that they have felt. we did learn some new things about how this all happened, the president delivered the news personally. when they -- when the hostages on a plane arrived in ankara,

turkey, and he got that call, then he was able to take the families into a room where three of them, the families of evan, alsu and paul were able to speak to them on the phone. we can show you the photograph. it's an incredible photograph of the three of them, holding the american flag. a fourth, who was elsewhere, vladimir, he was able to have a call are his family separately. and according to jake sullivan, this indicatings the idea, the benefit of releasing these hostages outweighings -- outweighs the risk. it is wheels up for ankara. it's about a 14-hour flight to washington, d.c. by tonight these hostages, former hostages will be back on american soil. i want to go, if i can, to keir

simmons because, keir, questions were asked about this in the briefing just now about the russian hitman, vadim krasikov, here's somebody who goes into a playground and in front of children, right, takes out a chechnyaen insurgent leader. it has been clear for years that vladimir putin, and we're learning more about that wanted him back. he became the lynch pin of this deal. tell us more about vadim krasikov. but also what the reaction is and how this is playing in russia right now. what do we know? >> reporter: you're right to describe krasikov in that way. it points to another part of all of this. it's bittersweet. no doubt. no doubt that at the "wall street journal" and across the journalistic community, there is absolute relief at the release of evan gershkovich and for the families of those being released

today, it is an opportunity, a chance finally to just breathe out. but that being said, we are -- america and the west is handing back to russia a number of people who there will be people in the days ahead, they will raise questions about them. vadim krasikov, described by president putin as a patriot. putin describing him as liquidating that chechnyaen in that park in germany. he's an assassin. he was in germany for murder. and that is why the chancellor of germany, in a statement today, in so many words, describes this as a very very difficult decision to make. i think it's also worth just noting that we're going to focus on him inevitably in the days ahead. in that story i just described. there are others, roman, described as one of the biggest gets for u.s. cyber enforcement. he was in jail until the u.s.

for 27 years. a 27-year sentence. as these celebrations continue, and the administration and the house has signalled what a relief this is, and make the case that this is what needed to happen, there is less focus right now on the kinds of people that have been released and sent back to russia, and those two are just two of them, there are quite a number of others. they are people that president putin wanted to get back. he hasn't spoken yet. i was just talking to our team in moscow. they say russian television is waiting for a statement from the kremlin, likely from dmitry peskov, the spokesperson, before they begin to report this extensively, and they kind of wait for the message, if you like from the kremlin, but the

message is going to be from president putin that i have got our people back, i have patriots as he calls them, members of the russian security services back, and i've done that through this process of, and let's be honest about it, what they have been doing is collecting people in order to be able to make an exchange like this. now, you heard there in the news conference, the question raised about whether or not this increases the number of people who are taken like this. i think i would be a little bit more nuanced about it than that. i would say what this really signifies is the new world that we live in, i think it's quite a moment to say that this is the most complex and possibly controversial exchange, prisoner exchange since the cold war. i think this moment today, amid all of the celebrations, tells us something about the change, the geopolitical changes in the world that we are seeing because when you think about what's

happening here, effectively, it is becoming more and more difficult for westerners, for american passport holders to travel to places like russia or countries that have a relationship with russia, and the russians will say that that's true for russians too, that their people go somewhere and then they get taken and extradited to the u.s., albeit, of course, in those cases, very likely for good reason. so this is a changing world, and again, that picture in ankara, the kind of thing we haven't seen the likes of which sings the cold war, that, i think, is a powerful picture. this picture, is a fantastic shot. this is the celebration, this is the fantastic moment that people who have been held for so long are free, but there is another picture too, and that is about the changes in the world and whether we are going back to a world more like the cold war.

>> keir, thank you for that. there's another picture that i want to show you. it was just put out by the white house. it is the family members on the phone with their loved ones, the released hostages, and president biden just posted this. today i stood behind the families of paul, evan, alsu and vladimir in the oval office, as they spoke to their loved ones first time first time since they regained freedom. these families never lost hope, and today they will be reunited with the missing piece of their soul. but to keir's point, michael crowley, and i thought one of the understatements, frankly, that jake sullivan made was when he said these kinds of decisions are not simple. and you once wrote this. this is all part of the kremlin's harsh game of human bartering. talk about these changes a little more that keir was just referencing, and the complex and frankly controversial decisions that need to be made in that

world. >> yeah, chris, you know, it appears that this is a tactic that is foreign, hostile foreign governments to the united states are increasingly pursuing. they have come to a realization that they can grab americans within their borders on spurious charges, made up charges, maybe in some cases, very minor infraction with wildly disproportionate penalties, and use them as bargaining chips to try to get concessions from the united states, try to make an american president look bad or try to do a straight up transactional swap. there's always been some of this, you can point back to examples of this going back many decades, but it certainly looks, particularly in the case of iran and russia in particular, to have become a more popular

strategy, and so it's forcing american presidents into a position of making very difficult choices, and i do think that even if you believe that the recent american strategy of making concessions and releasing prisoners and making these swaps is worth it, even if you think that it's worth it, i think you have to acknowledge that we're sort of creating a new reality here, and there is danger. now, jake sullivan said from the podium, he questioned the idea that there's what he would call moral hazard, which is creating, by doing these trades, you create an incentive for foreign governments to grab more americans, looking for more trades, and jake said, he doesn't see evidence that that cycle is occurring, but, boy, intuitively, you would have to think that that is a real risk here. there are people who do think it's happening, and i would just say one more thing, circling back to something else we spoke about before the press conference and then i'll stop. you asked me about the role of

the families. i think that families have become very involved, very engaged, very public. there's been a tradition of telling the families to lay low, keep quiet, don't raise the temperature, and now the families are coming out and they're causing political pressure. they're putting political pressure on the president, on the united states, and i think that that is also contributing to pressure to make a deal, to give up bad guys like krasikov, or viktor bout, who administrations say we can't do this. you can't deny the reality that political pressure and visible lobbying or media presence from stricken family members is playing a role here. so, again, in conclusion, it might be worth it, but i think it does come with real questions and concerns. . >> eddie glaude in the last minute we have, i always ask you the big picture questions. there are these, you know, important geopolitical

questions, but there are also what many people would say are just the moral and the human aspects of this, and as you think about all of the conversations that we have heard over the last hour, what say you? >> i'm happy that these people will be home with their families. we have to understand the complexity of the geopolitical landscape. i understand that. but today, tonight, i'm excited. i'm overjoyed that these folks will be home. and i just love the way jake sullivan responded to the questions around donald trump and the response of j.d. vance. just what, three words, i don't follow. right? he refused to politicize it, because he, as his tears suggested, was reveling in the joy of these folks returning home. >> and finally, a quick post from barack obama that finishes this way, it's a tremendous diplomatic achievement and we're grateful that they'll be back home with their families where

they belong. i want to thank all of our guests. there will be much more of our breaking news coverage on this stunning international breakthrough, including what these newly released hostages will faced going forward now that they're coming home. keep it right here, you're watching msnbc. it right here, e watching msnbc -you need astepro. -astepro? it's faster, bro. 8x faster than flonase. it's faster, bro! it's faster, bro! it's faster, bro! it's mom to you. astepro starts working in 30 minutes. astepro and go! [street noise] [car door shuts] [paparazzi cameras] introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. ned, ned, who are you wearing? he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis.

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they started as dreamers. but today, they're stars. follow every moment of team usa on the network that brings you legendary speed and reliability: xfinity mobile. with xfinity mobile, you'll have the most powerful mobile wifi network with you on the go with exclusive access to speeds up to a gig in millions of locations nationwide. and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. thank you for joining us for this second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, an emotional push and pull is playing out with three americans and one u.s.

resident who are detained in russia, now on their way home in the biggest, most complex prisoner exchange since the cold war. the group includes "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich and former marine, paul whelan, both of whom were convicted of espionage and designated wrongfully detained by the u.s. government. two other journalists were released as well, alsu kurmasheva and vladimir kara-murza. the hostages are boarding a plane, and inside another plane, in the air right now, over turkey, we know, they have taken off from ankara. later tonight, the three u.s. citizens are expected to be back on american soil. moments ago at the white house, national security adviser jake sullivan spoke about what this moment means for the negotiators who spent years pulling this deal together. >> i spent a lot of