on this new hour of ayman, democrats got it together in the end. but, how long can they keep it? we examine the new ticket that will soon be expanded. plus, debate dodger, how long can the former president scarf off the woman whose calling his bluff in front of the entire world? high count accountability, the president has a plan to keep the supreme court in line. congresswoman melanie stansbury, tonight, on how to implement. let's do it. believe it or not, it's only been about one month since president biden's debate performance send the democratic party spiraling into a full-

blown panic. i actually don't believe it, it has been more than a month. today marks just two weeks since he decided to drop out of the race and change everything. as i wrote at that time, on a psychic level, party levels admitted feeling relief for the first time in months. some expressed a sense of not just purpose, but of organization, which in turn led to optimism that the campaign against donald trump is not actually lost. vice president kamala harris took the baton from biden, and she started sprinting. her campaign has already raised $310 million, a historic amount, fueled by small dollar donations. that's more than double the amount that donald trump's campaign and his allied entities brought in during the entire month of july. with harris at the top of the democratic presidential ticket, we're seeing a new wave of energy among democrats, political organizers, celebrities, and regular people. it's more than just vibes.

according to 538 national polling data, harris is currently leading trump by 1.6%. the vice president isn't just a fresh face, she's also bringing some fresh and effective messaging. >> it's true, these guys, they're running for he men women haters club or something. >> we're using this big living room to talk to you about a super weird idea from jd vance. >> donald trump has been resorting to some wild lies about my record, and some of what he and his running mate are saying, it's just plain weird. >> if you need ivf to start a family, these weirdos have banned that. >> donald trump is a criminal, he is someone that consistently goes absolutely bizarre weirdo on everybody. the things that he says, whether he's talking about sharks or hannibal lector, these are bizarre things.

>> sensing a pattern here. it used to be the democrats said, when they go high, we go low, now they just call him weird. republicans, especially donald trump, have been thoroughly knocked off balance by that attack line. while many credit governor tim walz of minnesota with coining the term, it's actually, get this, it traces back to 2018, and who was it? none other than vice president harris herself. as political reporter isaac wrote in his book, battle for the soul inside the democrats campaigns to defeat trump, harris gathered with a.i.d.s. in 2018 to decide if she should run for the democratic nomination in 2020. when staff asked how she would react if trump hovered over her during a debate, like he did with hillary clinton, harris reportedly said, i'd turn around and say, why are you being so weird? what's wrong with you? and here's vice president harris six years later, hoping voters agree her opponent and trumpism it self is just plain

weird. joining me now is msnbc political contributor darren haynes, she's also editor at large at the 19th, and tim miller, msnbc political analyst and writer at large at the bulwark. and expert on weirdness. right off the top, let's talk, senator mark kelly, we've been following this, he deleted a post on exit ended with, my mission is serving arizonans, soon after he posted again, whether it was from my time in the navy and at nasa serving the united states senate or visiting our troops overseas i've learned that when your country asks you to serve, you always answer the call. tim, we talked about this at the top of the show, i'm going to ask you, should we read into this? is this some poor social media staffer who forgot to unscheduled the schedule tweet? >> i have so much sympathy for the poor digital staffer right now that put that out. we've all been there, i've been

there. i'm going to rehash a lot of trauma from 2016, i certainly made some mistakes in this regard in my career as a staffer. it happens. i wouldn't read into it at all. i think they did a bunch of interviews this weekend, i think we know who the final group is, i think that largely it's a group that some have different strengths than others. but i think that whoever she chooses is going to be able to reinforce her message, both being able to make fun of donald trump and j.d. vance as weird, but more importantly, the message change that i've seen from a president biden was doing versus harris is doing, is focusing more about a forward- looking message about protecting freedom, about not going back to these fractious fights of the past, and i think that's been a lot of what's been really effective for her. over the first two weeks. >> i agree with that. i think really, she's managed

almost expertly to figure out a way to make this where she, unencumbered vice president is a feature candidate, and he is passing. to the degree that a vice presidential pick can fit into that framework, is there a candidate among the finalists we look at and says, that accentuates that message of generational change, we can't go back, this is the future. >> we're all sitting here trying to divine things from tweets, from where campaign schedules are happening, what these candidates are doing or not doing, if they're canceling events over the weekend. we don't know, what we do know is that the sitting vice president is very well poised to decide what criteria she needs in her successor, but you're seeing all of these short list, all white men, by the way, in my column i said, a two woman ticket might be the

answer to the all mail to get the republicans put up just a couple weeks ago, with trump and his running mate, j.d. vance, who has not had the best rollout. but all of these surrogates have been using this weird label that you talked about at the top of the hour for both trump and vance, and it's sticking. this is leading trump and vance scrambling for anything, a nickname, a gimmick a device that they can use against her. i think any of the people that vice president harris pick, they seem to be rehearsing their lines of attack as well against trump and vance, i this point they've all been more successful at landing that weird label that seems to be sticking much better than trump and vance are at harris and her yet to be named vice presidential pick. >> one thing we were talking about in the last hour, this gets into what you were talking about with j.d. vance, which is, what you don't

want to do , you don't want to do any harm, you don't want to sap the enthusiasm that vice president harris has currently. and tim, i want to talk to you about this quote. not everyone thinks that this enthusiasm is going to last, right? white house official david axelrod served as the chief strategist to barack obama as president campaigns, he called it, irrational exuberance. right now. is he right? is this a sugar high because biden is no longer the candidate? or is this real, and can she bottle it up even more with a vp pick? >> i don't know. irrational exuberance can be real in politics, it can be irrational and real. i was with ask, i think early on, about some of the risks of having the 280-year-olds running, so i give him credit, and he's won more presidential races than me.

in this case, maybe he's making a good caution to democrats to make sure they're beefing up this message and not running entirely on a sugar high. but if you look at 2008, obama, sure, there was a lot of meat on the bone but there was some irrational exuberance. the red states and blue states are going to love each other again, donald trump sure as heck ran on irrational exuberance for the people that showed up to his rallies. >> hello. >> irrational exuberance is a good thing, i think, not a problem. >> what you think of this? >> why does exuberance have to be irrational? people are excited about this campaign, the harris campaign is off to the races like noah liles was today, the momentum could continue into week three, harris is going to name her vp pick. and also, excitement and exuberance is translating into action. the campaign, you saw that happened last week, with you name it group hopping on a zoom

call, donating money. not just the money, also signing up to volunteer. you had 1.3 million voters signed up in 750,000 new supporters according to the harris campaign. 200,000 volunteers signed up to canvas and phone banks, that excitement, if they can translate that into that kind of action over the next 13 or so weeks, i think this is certainly a very competitive race, and her nomination is already all but secured, headed into the chicago, for the democratic national convention in a couple of weeks. the exuberance is probably pretty likely to continue, at least for the foreseeable future. this is a compressed time schedule at this point, less than 100 days to go, and i was just in atlanta for the rally that she had there, and i can tell you, the exuberance, irrational or not was definitely in the building that day,. >> they have 310 million reasons that rational exuberance is a good thing right now. i want to go back to the issue

of the term weird, which i will acknowledge i'm getting a tiny bit tired of, but whatever, it is what it hears. it does appear to be getting under the skin of the republicans. take a listen to what j.d. vance said at a rally last night in atlanta. >> remember, barack obama said we cling to god and guns, remember that? hillary clinton and called us deplorables. and now, kamala harris says we're weird. >> it's like he wants to draw attention to it. but, beyond that, is the way he's parlaying it, the focus on the culture war stuff, don't you think or do you think that that re-emphasizes what harris and others are talking about? that these people are obsessed with cultural issues? >> totally re-emphasizes it. when you're amplifying and repeating the word, it's like when you're explaining, you're

losing. continuing to pull up j.d. vance past comments, whether it's about childless cat ladies, or what he had to say about simone biles pulling out of the tokyo olympics as a sign of weakness when so many people not only in this country but around the world saw that as a sign of strength, these are things that are not really doing much to get people away from the weird label that seems to be sticking to them. and you have the former president who is saying, i'm not the one who's weird, she's the one who's weird. i know you are but what am i is not a good political strategy, although it may work on tim when i say it to him sometimes. >> can i just, really quick, sam? >> i'm kicking it to you in a second, but i wanted to pick on you a little bit more, too. because, you are, for better or worse, kind of an expert on working for candidates when bad perceptions take hold.

and i want to know, if you are working for vance right now, what would you advise him to do about this idea that's really taken root but he's just got this weird vibe about him? >> that's a bad place to go on a sunday night, sam, getting in my head, thinking about how i'd advise j.d. vance. i'm going to think about that well i fact check him. he said, not really, j.d. vance was mcmullen in that race in 2016. she wasn't talking about j.d. vance, j.d. vance hated trump. j.d. vance was calling them deplorables, he and hillary were together then. if i was talking to j.d., i would say, stick to the issues. honestly. let trump be the trash talker, let trump do the trump thing, and you should focus on working- class issues, and i'm happy to give this advice because i know he's not going to take it. just try to burnish your credentials as something that really cares about working-

class voters and only talk about that, that would be my advice for him, but i don't see that happening. >> i hear you. play to your strengths, basically. stick around, we're going to have you back, but next, debate dodging for now, how many excuses can trump use until he's ultimately shamed into debating the vice president? pr? are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you'll know your glucose and where it's headed no fingersticks needed. with the freestyle libre 3 system freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare

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back in march, donald trump said he would debate president joe biden anytime, anywhere, and anyplace. but now, according to vice president harris, that has become one specific time for one specific safe space. on friday, trump said he would no longer participate in the scheduled debate on abc news in september. instead, proposing a different date for a debate on fox news. hours ago, trump warned about a hypothetical reality where harris loses the debate that he's been avoiding, posting on his failed social media platform, what happens when she

loses the debate? and goes down. will they replace her with yet another candidate? unprecedented disaster for the usa, a real threat to democracy. oh, man. my panel is back with me. it's tough to get into the mind- set, here, but trump i guess is saying harris could lose or would lose this debate, if he's not scheduled sticking to the scheduled debate, she might lose it and democracy will be imperiled. the basic gist is, he's got cold feet, right? >> what will happen? let's find out. trump seems to be trying to get back on offense with this debate challenge? i'm not sure. now refusing to participate in the agreed-upon debate on september 10th with harris and telling her that he's owing only going to debate on september 4th on fox, just like he said, anytime anyplace to joe biden a few months ago, what has changed? i don't know. for her part, vice president

harris is saying that she's going to be there on september 10th, so whether he shows up or not, i don't know, are we going to see an empty podium next month? i really don't know. >> and tim, what was interesting to me, he's not just asking for the debate to be moved to fox, which is much more friendly confines for him. he wants a full arena audience. which, i think he thinks would be better for him, too. that's explicity going back on the rules he had agreed to with president biden. what do you take from these maneuvers? is he actually trying to debate? or is he trying to lay the predicate to blame kamala harris for saying no to that debate so he can say look i tried, she's not into it. >> that's a good question, sam. i wanted to just announce tonight on msnbc that i've agreed to a date with little nonsex at the location of my choosing, and i just put out that announcement, and i'm very excited about that. i look forward to the big audience that we're going to have. i think he's got a debater, and

this, bravado posturing. he's got to debate her. how can a man whose final night of his convention had hulk hogan on stage and the theme was apparently, we're the macho guys, we're the macho men, then duck a debate against a woman, vice presidential candidate, i just, it would seem like he is cowering, and he's a huge chicken, and he can rationalize it however he wants, about how the rules changed, when they changed candidates or whatever. he's going to have to figure out a way to debate her, this is trying to get more favorable turf, my guess is it probably ends up, it lands on the cbs offer, something to that effect. i think he's got to debate her, and of course she wants to debate him, i think that's where this ends. >> we just got some breaking news ourselves, lil nas x has responded and said this is a total lie and that you just made it up, tim. i have a question about what

you would do if you were in harris's shoes. you could go to the empty podium if trump is not there, right? and get interviewed. four, in theory, you could say, sure, i'll see you on fox news at the time and place of your choosing. why not actually take the bait, right? why not call his bluff? >> you know, i think one thing that the vice president has been trying to do is .2 trump as somebody who does not follow the rules, who does not think the rules apply to him, maybe that's one more way, or one more example of how he's flouting or skirting the rules, saying, i know what i agreed to before, but i don't want to do that anymore. so now we should just do what i want to do. and one more note on messaging, thinking about what the vice president might do or what she should do, i want to point to a

story that we have on the 19th about one of harris's key messages on the campaign trail, talking about how this is an election about a prosecutor versus a criminal, which is a message that's resonating for many americans. his criminality has been an issue in this campaign, so certainly that is fair game, but her leaning into her legal background, and that framing is facing some criticism for some people who were saying words like: and criminal are a fear mongering tactic that's dehumanizing. so, i'm going to be listening to see if they end up debating, if she changes her pitch in terms of language. not necessarily the substance of what she's saying but the language in the weeks ahead that might be offputting to voters including people who could be re-enfranchised and who could be open to voting for her, but for that kind of language. >> that's interesting. i would encourage people to read that piece, it's an interesting point about how she maneuvers the next couple weeks. it's not how she purchased trumps, it's how she keeps her voters engaged. about the debate, what we saw

this past week, was a wild event at the nab j where he took the stage, he was refusing to go on because he didn't want to be fact checked live at this event. tim, i wonder if you think he's just in this place where he can't go to these events and get pushed back upon. that he needs to be in these areas or with these journalists or at these rallies where he can just riff, and i do wonder, to your early point two expand a little bit, will his ego get in his own way? will he be able to say, i don't need to debate kamala harris, i can go without it, or will he have to eventually say, i can't be the person who just skirted the agreed-upon debate. >> i do think that he's going to have to, for that very reason. and that was very revealing, he came out on stage and looked

like a grumpy, petulant liar. who couldn't defend his own actions, his own words, that's the reason he doesn't want fact checking. he's built this house of cards of lies, particularly around election fraud but around a lot of other issues as well, and it's easy to keep that house of cards up, right side up when you're only doing interviews in friendly, with friendly maga sources are only on fox. when you have an actual tough journalist challenging you, it comes crumbling down. i think, it is a challenge for him to find debate rules that work for him. that's why he's, he doesn't want to be fact checked. i would say to the harris campaign on that front, look at the nabj, come all of the prosecutor can be the fact checker, i don't think you need to get bogged down in that. is a lot of ways that you can hit him, which the democrats do

now, so, if donald trump is up for it, i think she'll be able to knock him. >> people forget this because the biden debate was such a debacle, but every other presidential debate trump participated before that, he lost. i want to talk about nabj, that was when trump made clear that he was going to bring race right into the center of the conversation, basically saying, kamala harris has decided only recently to become black. i'm curious how you feel the harris campaign should and has handled the response to that type of visceral nasty attack. >> i think we also have to point out that tim clearly does not want to be fact checked on the lil nas x date challenge, we just need to mention that he does not like that. >> all i said was i agreed to it, i never said he did, i just said i agreed to a date. >> this has gone off the rails, back on the rails, what did you think of the response to that?

>> well, first of all, let's be clear, kamala harris has been black for a long time, and also, former president donald trump has said racist things for a long time, this is more about his racism, his pattern and record of racism than it is about her blackness. but, i think her alluding to it, her pointing to it, who would have thought that weird would have been an even worse term or a term that would stick even more than racist or sexist. didn't see that on my bingo card in 2024, yet here we are. and she's not really engaging in that. her response was really that the american people deserve better. really not even making it about her, when he makes these kinds of comments, just really trying to stay focused on the american people, what she wants to do for them, and saying that once again, the former president is not focused on them, but focused on other things that really don't matter to voters.

>> errin haines, tim miller, this was a real pleasure, thank you very much. and still to come, trumps legal woes, haven't heard about them in a while. we examine what just went down in federal election interference case, coming up next. next. (woman) ugh. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get the new galaxy s24 on us. only on verizon. known as a loving parent. known for lessons that matter. known for being a free spirit. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer, fda-approved for 17 types of cancer. one of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene.

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♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ donald trump's 2020 election interference case is once again back in the hands of u.s. district judge tonya chicken. after the supreme court's ricky ruling last month on presidential immunity, it's up to her to decide how to a private to trumps case. in a 16 page opinion yesterday, chutkan denied trumps sweeping motion to dismiss the indictment entirely. she also rejected trumps claim that the white house and justice department targeted him with the charges, saying he presented no evidence demonstrating the likelihood of vindictiveness. adding, trump repeatedly mischaracterized the allegations against him.

chutkan set an august 9th deadline for court filings, and in august 16th hearing for pretrial proceedings, which trump is not required to attend. with me now to discuss this is msnbc legal analyst, and a criminal defense attorney. danny, thank you for coming on saturday night, sunday night. appreciate it, got to get my head straight. let's start with your take on chutkan's opinion yesterday. what you make of her rejection of this claim of vindictive prosecution? more importantly, what tone she's trying to set as the case does return to her courtroom. >> this is not really a motion based on the immunity issue. this is selective prosecution. it's basically the argument of, why are you picking on me, look at that guy over there. he's committing crimes, why are they prosecuting him? i'm not even aware that it's ever worked in any court anywhere, because all prosecution, particularly

federal prosecution is selective. the federal government has limited resources, they have to pick and choose who they're going to prosecute. do i think they usually picture the prosecutor by watching tv and seeing who's jumping out at them or who is a hot topic or who might get them some good press? that's my opinion. but the bottom line is, almost all federal prosecution is selective. this motion even though donald trump might have had a decent argument in the world of selective prosecution, it wasn't likely to succeed with the immunity issue which is totally separate. >> the immunity issue is the big issue, here, the supreme court ruled former presidents are entitled to presumptive immunity for all official acts, in this particular case, the question now is, what does judge chutkan have to parse through? >> the only way to answer that is whatever it is she has to do, it's just as complicated how she's going to do it. what kinds of evidentiary hearings is she going to hold?

another part of the supreme court holdings that people are talking about a lot is almost as important which is chief justice said in the opinion, that not only are certain things immune, but some things you can't even use as evidence. how is that going to work? can the judge hear it before it comes in? she has to rule on whether or not it comes in. to give you an example, discussing with senior members of the doj, an alleged scheme to overturn the election, that may not come in at all because it's part of the core presidential powers, and therefore it cannot be used as evidence. this is a really thorny task for judge chutkan, the bottom line is it almost doesn't matter what her conclusion is in the sense that as trump doesn't like it, he's going to appeal and will end up back at the supreme court. the supreme court basically throughout of them boomerang that will come back to them eventually, sooner or later. if the case still exists, if donald trump is elected, if he

is, the case goes poof. >> i guess, how thin of an issue do they get to appeal? for instance, can they appeal specifically requests to submit submit specific pieces of evidence saying, that's an official act, we need to appeal that and kick that to a higher court. if so, could we be stuck in a situation where literally every single piece of evidence introduced by the prosecution has to have its own appeal trial on it. >> there's the potential for many trials within trials, let me give you a silly example. if trump or any president decided or tweeted, i'm selling pardons for bags of cash. in theory, the part about the pardon, the exchange, the bribery and the official act there would be excluded, and you'd be left with the bag of cash. it's a tricky issue, and the bottom line is nobody knows,

not judge chutkan, nobody knows how this is going to play out, because it's a brand-new frontier in the law, we've never had this before. judge chutkan is doing it for the first time in american history. i do not envy her this task but i will say that for someone who issued an opinion yesterday, which was saturday, a judge in august in the summer, any lawyer watching this is scratching your head saying, there was a judge working in chambers on saturday in the summer? never heard of it. >> the question is, can the business get done? as you sit here now, what is your sense of the timeline here? what can we expect to learn in the coming weeks about what the trial in this election subversion case will look like if it gets to trial at all? >> it simply isn't likely that any of this will be resolved before the election or the inauguration, which is the magic date in my mind in terms of if donald trump is elected and this case is simply dismissed by an appointed

attorney general or trump tries to pardon himself. either one, but the timelines are going to be tricky, whatever judge chutkan does, she has to hold a hearing, there may be disputes about what comes in and doesn't come in, if it gets appealed to the d.c. circuit, that's totally up to the appeals court, and from there what part of it that still remains if any of this case still remains, it may all go away, although i don't think that's likely. we will have a piecemeal case that exists, both sides going to the d.c. circuit that eventually in all likelihood back at the supreme court, that's if the case lasts that long. >> that's where we're at, thank you very much, appreciated on this sunday night. all right, coming up, israel is bracing for attacks by hezbollah, we have a report from lebanon. from lebanon.

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nbc's foreign correspondent matt bradley has this report from beirut. >> the entire region is waiting for the other shoe to drop here, and we don't know when or how it's going to be when iran decides that they will retaliate. there was a growing certainty that iran and possibly its proxies like hezbollah in lebanon will indeed retaliate against the israelis, because now everyone in the region seems to have their own open account with the israelis, hezbollah based in lebanon as i mentioned, they suffer there on assassination at the hands of the israelis a couple days ago, and the israelis assassinated, they denied that but the iranians accused them of that and almost everyone in the region is certain that the israelis were behind that assassination. now we're seeing what looks like all of the different parts of the so-called axis of resistance led by iran coming into form, about ready to perhaps participate in what could become a coordinated response against israel.

that would be deeply destabilizing and very dangerous. over the past 10 months we've seen the members of this axis of resistance firing against the israelis, sometimes all at once, but now it looks like we could see all of iran's fingers in the middle east combined into a fist to attack israel together that, of course, would be very dangerous. but there is indications, but so far all of these different groups have tried to step away from the ledge. it's unclear whether they'll do that now, we have a dry run back in april where there was unprecedented back and forth between the iranians and the israelis, that didn't break out into a wider war, because the iranians and the israelis, while they seemed determined to shoot at each other, they seemed determined not to escalate. the iranians seemed to exactly what they were going to do, and really when they were going to do it. the united states and israel had time to put together a coalition of arab countries and other allies in the region to prevent a wider war from breaking out and to shoot down those iranian missiles, one

analyst in beirut that i spoke with at the time called that affair a dance fight. this is not going to be dancing. everybody assumes that this is going to be a blistering attack, and one that could invite yet another retaliation from the israelis, and that could be the beginning of a very, very dangerous escalation. sam. >> matt bradley, thank you very much. next, congresswoman melanie stansbury on how to implement the president's plan to keep the supreme court in check. ch —- get two pairs of progressives for just $129.95. offer includes a comprehensive eye exam. book an exam online today. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? comprehensive eye exam. wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please?

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president joe biden opposed supreme court reforms throughout his long political career. that was, until roe v. wade was overturned. ignoring nearly 50 years of precedent. conservative justice became embroiled in ethics scandals. the court gave presidents almost unlimited immunity from criminal prosecution. now, a lame-duck president

preparing to leave the white house, biden is calling for a three-pronged approach to fixing the supreme court. first, he has proposed a, no one is above the law amendment that would make it clear that there is no immunity for crimes of former president committed while in office. second, biden argues for 18 year term limits for justices, and third, he's calling on congress to pass a biden code of conduct for the supreme court. joining me now to discuss this is democratic woman melanie stansbury of new mexico. thank you so much. let's start with your response to these reforms. you, along with a lot of democratic lawmakers introduced legislation earlier this spring to investigate allegations of misconduct on the court. what do you make of the fact that biden is now seemingly in your corner? and the totality of these approaches that biden has laid out. >> thanks for having me on.

we have never seen a supreme court like what we're seeing right now, certainly there have been supreme court in the past, but we've never seen a court that is so wholesale trying to rewrite the constitution, checks and balances of our government, to reframe the founding fathers ideas about our government, and to undermine our fundamental american rights. and joe biden's reform package, which he put forward which i think it's important to know on the anniversary of the signing of the rights act is critical to make sure that we rein in this activist court. as president biden said, this is not normal. the way the court is behaving, the kinds of gifts that they're taking, the conflicts of interest, the way they've appended every possible basic right of americans from access to the ballot box to abortion and the right to make decisions about your own body, to clean

air, clean water, and even criminalizing homelessness, we've never seen like this ever before, so i strongly support the president's package. we must do everything we can to try to get it across the finish line, and we're going to have to make sure that we flip the house, hold the senate, and win the presidential this year to make it happen. >> let me backtrack a little bit. in the 2020 presidential campaign, this is predating dobbs, but there was talk about supreme court reform and adding new justice seats. joe biden was reluctant to do that. when he took office he created a commission, a classic d.c. move to kick the can down the road. at the time democrats did have the house and senate and the presidency. was that a missed opportunity to act in that window? >> i think it was in some ways. we didn't realize that when

donald trump told us that he planned to ban abortion and use the supreme court justices, he actually planned to do it. the three justices that he appointed to the court, along with these historically corrupt and captured justices, alito and thomas, have shown us who they are. at the time, certainly we could have acted, but i think that many americans were still in denial about how this court would behave and ways in which it would undermine our democracy, our institutions and our rights across the board. and truly redefine american democracy. with this immunity decision, just three weeks ago, in which they said basically, the president has unfettered power, teeing up a donald trump presidency that would have unchecked power in american history. i think that many felt at the time it wasn't as urgent as it feels now. as we've seen this court show us who they are. >> let's talk about the specific proposals, a no one is

above the law amendment, that's going to be obviously opposed by republicans who look at it as retaliatory. to donald trump. term limits for supreme court justices, that would run right up against the constitution. it would probably have real legal hurdles, and then there's the code of conduct, ethical code of conduct for justices. of the three, that one seems like the most logical, and easiest to pass, is this how you plan to leave the proposals? >> i think they are all equally necessary, and in some ways constitutional amendment is the most urgent. what is most likely to pass in this political climate is, in reality, none of them. it's important to understand that right now, the house is controlled by the gop, and the speaker of the house himself was one of the architects of the stop the steel campaign for

donald trump. so his desire to bring legislation to the floor that would actually reform the court is going to be zero right now. that's why this upcoming election is so essential also for judicial reform. but absolutely, one of the reasons why i'm leading a bill to have a code of conduct like every other federal judge has and an enforceable body that can help to provide that oversight through an investigator general is essential, inspector general. that is a bill that i'm leading and i'm cosponsoring eight other bills in the house with other leaders on judicial reform including folks like jamie raskin, because it's not just one reform that's necessary, the institution has rotted to its core and become captured by these special interests, these mega-donors and these organizations that are bringing activist cases in front of the court, which is

trying to rewrite the american constitution. so, we need all of these reforms. it's not one or the other, it's all of the above. >> i want to ask you quickly, this is all taking place in the context of the campaign and specifically today, vice president kamala harris is meeting with a number of potential running mates at her residence, do you have someone on that reported short list who you think she should pick or who you favor? >> there's a lot of democratic talent out there, the bench is deep. and i think all of the finalists that she's interviewing and talking to are extremely talented, they're battleground tested, we've got numerous veterans, we have a former astronaut, these are the best of the best. so whoever she chooses is going to be a fantastic running mate, and i think we're all waiting to hear who it is.

>> we try to get you on that one but i appreciate you deflecting it. congresswoman melanie stansbury, thank you very much, and thank you at home for being with us this sunday, be sure to catch ayman each saturday and sunday here on msnbc and follow the show on instagram at ayman, msnbc. until we meet again, have a great night. great night. (woman) phone! (man) ahhh! (woman) oh! (man) oh no. (woman) dang it! (vo) you break it. we take it. trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get the new galaxy s24 on us. (man) oh yeah. (vo) only on verizon.

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