as a union member are double what they were in 2019, that is real and that is your popular. to me, we have got to make that economic case on a whole bunch of levels. i am not ceding that if donald trump comes back into the presidency that somehow he is going to wave a magic wand and fix inflation. if you believe that, i have a bridge i want to sell you. i think we have got to make that argument up front. >> congresswoman elissa slotkin, thank you very much, appreciate it. >> thank you, thank you. a quick and fun note before we go. if you have not yet gotten your tickets, scan the qr code on your screen and you can come see me and rachel maddow and a whole bunch of your favorite msnbc host in brooklyn one month from today, saturday, september 7th for msnbc live, democracy 2024. and what has happened in just the last two weeks, we will have plenty to talk about. so come join us. that is all the on this

wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening. >> it is going to be fun, fun day to be out. and i think when they planned it, i didn't think we thought that, oh my god, september 7th is going to be so fully in the middle of everything that is going on in the world and in this country. it will just be a great day for people who watch us who will meet for the first time. but just for us to all be in the same place talking to each other because that doesn't happen all that much, either. i really look for to that event. >> me too. >> i shall see you there, nice to see you, friend. you, frien that would be impressive on its own, but check this out. this is the size of the crowd of harris' rally tonight in detroit. theni harris campaign said 15,0 people in attendance for that. thete harris campaign revealed since announcing governor tim walz as ang running mate in the

past 24 hours since then the campaign hasriesed a whopping $36 million. the democratic fund-raising site act blue said the peak of their fund-raising came in an hour, that was the hour harris and walz spoke together yesterday evening in philadelphia. it's clear the excitement has trump and his running mate, j.d. vance, scrambling to come up with new ways to counter attack. first trump trying to attack kamala harris' gun this week. trump's new attack on kamabla harris is literally gibberish. it's clearly not the strongest point of defense that came pain had, but when it comes to trying to t attack harris' new running mate, tim walz, it does seem

both donald trump and j.d. vance have found d potentially potent lines of attack. the issue with those lines of attack, of course, is that they are entirely false. >> what really bothers me about tim walz, it's not even the positions he's taken, though, certainly has been been a far-left radical. you know what bothers me about tim walz as a marine who served his country in uniform, when the united states marine corp, when the united states of america asked me to go top, iraq to ser my country, i did it. and i'm very proud of that service. when tim walz was asked by his country to go to iraq you know what he did, he dropped out and allowed his unit to go without him. do not pretend to be something that you're p not. >> do not pretend to be something that you're not. we're just going to put that aside as g it relates to j.d. vance for a little while because i want to talk about this particular issue. on its face with no context or fact checking that line of attack, the idea governor tim walz is lying about his militar

service is potent. we saw an incredibly similar fabricated line ofed attack bac in 2004 against the then-democratic nominee for president, john kerry. and those completely made up attacks ledte to nearly 20% of voters saying they didn't think that kerry d deserved his war medals. i should note that the one person who orchestrated that fabricated line of attack against john kerry is chris lasciveta, now donald trump's chief analyst. tim walz served in the national guard for 24 years. he responded to floods and tornados, and he spent months on active dutyon overseas doing things like training our nato allies in italy. now, walz has never claimed that he had a combat role in the military. he's never had one. but that's nut the point because there's an understanding among people who serve this country in

the military that you have answered a sacred call. no matter what you are whether you're inte the reserve or acti duty, no matter you're a cook or mechanic or fighter pilot, no matter you see combat or not, tim walz never saw combat. but you know who else didn't see combat? j.d. vance. vance was a civil affairs marine who took photos, wrote stories and escorted journalists around iraq. but that doesn't matter because neither of m these two men have ever pretended they were in combat roles. they both had incredibly important noncom bat roles and they're both veterans. the only reason he left the national guard is to run for congress. to go back and listen to how he presented himself even in that very first run for office, doesn't sound like stolen valor to me. >> i'm a retired command sergeant major in the minnesota national guard, and after years of firing artillery, i sustained

severe inner ear damage. because i have good health insurance provided through my employer, i was able to have surgery on my ear. my ear healed, my hearing was gradually restored. one week after the surgery i awoke to a sound i couldn't identify. my wife told me, tim, that's your 4-year-old daughter, hope. you see, hope wakes up singing every morning but i'd never heard that sound until that day. i'm running for congress because i believe wefo as a country hava moral obligation to ensure that every father can hear their daughter sing. i've heard how important health care is to everyone. tim walz went from public service in the military to public service in congress. a few s years ago minnesota pubc radioag tracked down some of th members of the walz unit who diw deploy to iraq. the main thing they want to

stress to the outlet is they both death with severe mental health issues on their return and walz helped to connect struggling guard members with help. he sought to cut the red tape. governor walz is not steal any valor. he served the country for more than two decades, unlike say donald trump who reportedly avoided the draft by claiming he had bone spurs. liked i said that's just one o the potent lies the trump campaign and vance are pushing about tim walz right now. here's line number 2. >> everyhe voter in minnesota needs to know when the violent mobs of anarchists, and looterss and marxists came to burn down minneapolis four years ago, remember me? i couldn't get your guv door to act. he'sor supposed to call in the national guard or the army, and he didn't do it. i couldn't get your governor, so i sent in the national guard to save minneapolis. >> trump claims that in the

civil unrest that came in the wake of the pleats t killing of george floyd, trump claims that governor walz refused to send in the national guard and that t trumpe himself had to do it. again, that strikes me as the kind oft attack that could be incredibly pote want with a lot of americans, if only it were true. but, again, it'sit w not true. today abc news obtained newly released o audio of trump himse four days after governor walz called in the national guard. >> i know governor walz is on the phone, and we spoke. and i fully agreed with the way he handled it the last couple of days. tim, it showed the incredible difference between your great state yesterday and the day beforey compared to the first w days, which was just -- and i don't blame you. i blame the mayor. i meanbl i've never seen anythi like it, where the police were told to abanden the police house and it was ransacked and really

destroyed. millions and millions of dollars are going to have to go back to fix it. i don't know. >> mr. president, if i'm still on, the thing i'd say is i did 24 years in the guard. the one thing i would say you could do is a lot of people don't understand who the national guard is, and you need to get out there from a pr perspective and make sure it's not seen as an occupying force but it's their neighbors, schoolteachers, business owners, those types of things. >> okay, good. i think that's a good idea. >> okay good. i think that's a good idea. now, i should note that nbc news has not independently verified that audio and a spokesperson for the trump campaign said trump only lauded walz after the governor heeded his advice to enlist support from the national guard, end quote. but, again, even that's provably false. trump didn't start saying he would call in the national guard himself until the day after the national guard had already been activated by governor walz.

so those are the lies that trump and j.d. vance are pushing about vice president harris' new running mate.de tim walz, when your trumpy uncle tries tor tell you those lies the next family gathering, debunk them. or better yet debunk them and tell them about who governor tim walz really is. because there's been a lot of ink spilled over the last 24 hours trying to explain why the vice president chose governor walz over the candidates. lots of different officials worked behind the scenes to encourage harris to pick walz. among the officials one that stuck out to me was congresswoman pramila jayapal. she joins me me now. congratulations on winning your primary last night. tell me why you wanted governor walz as kamala harris' running mate. >> well, ali, i've gotten to know the governor just a little

bit over the last many years, and i have been so impressed on a number of levels. first of all, i think balancing out the tingt was somebody from the midwest who came himself from a rural red district and has been the governor of a state that has implemented incredibly powerful economic programs that have lifted minnesotans up in red district and blue districts across the state like paid leave, making sure we have gun safety regulation, making sure we're r continuing to provide access to health care. these are things that are very popular in t places across the country andac certainly in the midwest and states wehe need to win. i think governor walz is going to bein able to talk about his record there. secondly, he's just a great communicator. you know, he's your everyday guy that people can relate to, and i think that people really feel differently when theye talk to him. they feel seen.

they feel like they belong. i've heard that from so many people. i've seen it myself. i've seen him operate just out there in the crowd and the way he takes on issues. even him popularizing the word "weird," what he's saying about that is say, listen, what they'resa trying to talk about t there j.d. vanceut and donald trump, is just weird. trying to deport illegal -- you know, mass deportations of immigrants, talking about people in ways that are so demeaning, childless cat ladies, things that really undermine who people are as human beings, that's weird. and we are not that way. all of us can come together and unify, so i think those are all great reasons. i think the third reason is he is 1,000% behind the biden-harris agenda. and now the biden-harris-walz

which will bring groups together. >> there was a childless cat ladies zoom call as well that i thought was kindwe of fun. tim walz as you heard -- as we introduced you, you heard j.d. vance calling him a far left radical. that we've heard a lot of. he is forot higher minimum wage. he, as you said, is for greater medical coverage for everyone, unionization, paid family leave. it's kind of f weird calling the things and the things that you and the members of the progressive caucus support far left radical stuff. the underlying support among the majority ofng americans for allf these things including the minimum wage, federal minimum wage is $7.25. that's $15,000 a year if you earn it. this is not radical, it's not far left, it's not even mostly left. >> no, that's exactly right. we've talked about this so many

times, ali. you know what people call far-left ideas or progressive ideas as far-left ideas, these are things that a vast majority ofva americans want. people want ame federal living wage where they can take care of their families. you know, universal health care, that's actually something people want and need, paid family leave. these are p things that most countries of our stature around the world have, and the united states does not, and americans across the board, republicans as well but certainly independents and democrats support these ideas. and i think what tim walz is able to doin is talk about the minimum wage that really connects to regular folks who are just wanting to take care of their families, just wants a decent government that takes care of them. i will also say, you know, tim's -- governor walz's bio is

sort of a poster child for why government matters so much. when you think about the fact at 17 years old his dad died, and his family made it day to day because they had social security survivor benefits. he went to college on the g.i. bill. he actually was able to be a public schoolteacher for so many years in our public education system, which is funded by the government. these are all things that allowed himl to be who he is today, and that is the opportunity we want to provide forop everyone, and i think thas why it's powerful because he and kamala harris have realow stori of being r working class folks o were able to get to where they are today and want other americans to be able to get there as anwell. >> talk to me about -- you said that it was ae unifying pick. what do you many by that? >> well, i just think it's been so interesting to see across the democratic caucus, right, progressives, moderates, new dems, you know, joe manchin.

across the independents especially since joe manchin is no longer a democrat, we have seen a real rallying together for tim walz. and the excitement that you're seeing first for the vice presidentir herself who is suchn incredible force-out there when i was in georgia as one of her first surrogates out just a few days afterut she got in the rac it was amazing to see the black, brown, young people, communities across georgia coming out. now you're seeing it, i heard there were 47,000 requests for tickets to that00 rally in detroit, which i think had about 20,000 people there and they had to move locations. the energy from the midwest, from the south. i think as they continue, you're going to continue to see this. is just phenomenal, and it's because people see themselves in kamala harris and tim walz. they represent all the different parts of america coming together

around a working class economic agenda that is going to lift everyone up. not identity politics. everyone should have a chance at a decent life. these are two decent people who are fighting for americans to have that chance. >> vecongresswoman, good to tal to you as always. thanks for joining us tonight, the congresswoman pramila jayapal. we appreciate your time. coming uppp donald trump sa he's never heard of project 2025, and a new photo unearthed tonight shows him on a private jet with its leader. first on day two tim walz continues to bring t energy and joy to the democratic ticket, but will he bring votes? politico's jonathan martin joins me to discuss. that's next.

dave's company just scored the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five! -i'm in a call... it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it.

but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years? introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities.

this election's going to be a fight. we like a good fight. when you know what you stand for, you know what to fight for. we know what we stand for. >> donald trump, he sees the world differently than we see it. he has no understanding of service because he's too busy servicing himself. again and again and again. >> vice president kamala harris in detroit tonight and her new running mate at a rally in oak

claire, wisconsin, earlier today. both rallies packed to the top with supporters featured a performance by an indy folk band. if you look closely at the lead singer in this video you can see he's sporting a camouflage trucker hat. that's part of the harris campaign's new merch. it's a camo harris-walls mat. it was inspired by the hat tim walz was wearing when he got the call asking him to serve on the ticket. but the young voters were quick to observe the hat also bears some resem bns to this princess hat sold by chapel roanm and apparently both did not miss a second snatching them up. that hat sold out just 30 minutes after the campaign made it available online, raising nearly a million dollars for the campaign. if you're like me and none of this makes any sense to you, that's okay. i didn't know either of those two names six minutes ago, but here's a handy guide to the

campaign's newfound pop culture residence. kamala harris is brat, and that apparently is a good thing apparently unlike when i was a child. tim walz is midwest princess, and that's also a good thing. it appears harris' choice of running mate has added fuel to the campaign's viral internet advantage over the trump-vance ticket. the question is does that energy translate to votes in the critical swing states that are needed to win this election? joining us now is senior political kmepitator jonathan martin. jonathan, thank you for being here. there are all sorts of words being used to describe tim walz starting from far-left radical with j.d. vance, all sorts of other things, many of them a lot of fun. you call him the comfort food pick. what do you mean by that? >> well, thanks for having me. look, i think for kamala harris this was not about his liberal accomplishments as the governor of minnesota, and it was not

about i don't think being concerned about gaza and josh shapiro. it had everything to do with her comfort level with tim walz and the fact that they hit it off. he's like, yeah, upper midwest, generational peer. he's like a, you know, meat loaf and mac and cheese, and put your feet up at home. i think she had an easy vibe with him, and that is so essentially, ali, in thiez vp picks is having that essential chemistry. that's the gut issue i think, when you're running for president you want to have a connection and be able to trust your running mate. i think she hit it off with walz. you saw last night i think why it works. there is is a sort of complement thing going on there with the two of them. and so, look, i think this has much more to do with her personal feelings than it does any ideological project. don't forget she had a turbulent

first couple of years in the white house. she knows what it's like to be a vp, and she knows the importance of forging a good partnership and a healthy one. and frankly, i think she wants to avoid some of the challenges that she had at least her first year plus in the white house. >> all of these expressions that i can't repeat from the top of my mind because i've never heard them before, the brat and the princess, whatever it is. tell me it is something no question. it's very effective, by the way, every time the trump campaign tries to land a punch on kamala harris and it turns around to something. he started calling her kamabla, which i wish someone could explain to me what it means. how all this translates into swing states? >> i'm still doing the macarena here. i'm pretty proud to say what

we're now into august and having figured out what brat is, so i'm still working on that. by all seriousness, one of the problems president biden had is there was no affirmative energy for his campaign. yes, progressives and democrats were uneasy about trump and were going to vote for him against trump, but there was no positive energy for biden. he was a vehicle against trump. and i think what you see now is especially with folks who are under 40 or under 30 even and these pop culture memes that are arising reflects an energy that's an affirmative energy for kamala harris. there's an excitement about her. they're thrilled to have somebody to get excited about, and most importantly there's a cathartic moment here on the left. there's a feeling of joy the dark month is finally over, and there's now kind of relief. there's now sun.

>> talk about that joy for a second. it's intriguing. it's different from the approach i take in which i'm warning everybody all the time that we have an existential threat to democracy. there's something neat about it, though. there's something neat about the chemistry between, first of all, kamala harris' own ability to react to criticism with a smile and a laugh. and it feels like trump can't land something, and then this idea that these two feel like they've got energy that's reminiscent of clinton-gore. >> yeah, look, they obviously have a sort of natural connection, and you can see that with them on the campaign trail. look, what i'm interested in is how does she handle, ali, the first day or the first week where things don't go so well? she obviously had a nice start. democrats are so thrilled to have a new lease on political life, and she's obviously riding

that wave. and i think right now she may ride it into the convention, but what happens when things aren't going so well and she has a campaign structure now basically something that was a joe biden campaign that became overnight a kamala harris campaign, and they've added a handful of senior folks on top of the campaign from the obama crowd. what happens when those folks start to clash and when things aren't going well? how does she respond then? i think that's going to be the test of kamala harris' candidacy is, yes, things are going well now. she's enjoying a honeymoon, but can she keep it together for 90 days? >> jonathan, thank you for joining us tonight. senior political columnist for politico, jonathan martin. still ahead tonight donald trump continues to distance himself from project 2025, and tonight new reporting from "the washington post" about a 45-minute flight on a private jet with the guy in charge of 2025 cuts against trump's efforts. that's next. ump's efforts. that's next.

this summer in paris, we're seeing hard work, dedication,

and a whole lot of... [“joy (unspeakable)” by voices of fire ft. pharrell williams begins to play] anastasia pagonis still feeling the joy. grant holloway how about that! keep the flair, keep the emotion, keep the showman, the sport needs it. ♪ ♪ for weeks donald trump has tried to distance himself from project 2025, which is an ultraconservative policy blueprint for a second trump administration organized and written by the heritage foundation. trump has said in the past, though, that he's moderated his comments since, that he has no idea who's in charge of project 2025 and he didn't even know what it was. but project 2025 and donald trump are inseparable.

at least 140 trump administration alumni helped create this document. trump's running mate, j.d. vance, wrote the forward of an upcoming book authored by the architect of project 2025, its new leader, kevin roberts. today we learned that publication of that book has been conveniently delayed until a week after the election. and tonight "the washington post" reports that in april 2022 donald trump shared a 45-minute private flight with roberts en route to a heritage foundation conference, where trump said in a keynote address, quote, the group's policy proposals are going to lay the groundwork and detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do, end quote. our movement. joining me now president and ceo of media matters for america, a non-profit group that has been doing extensive research on project 2025 and combating misinformation around it. good to see you again. my mind went to you because you really studied this thing, and there are sections and chapters

on literally every part of government. but fundamentally, if you've gone through this document what you understand is the most important part of it are not necessarily the specific very right-wing policies therein, but the idea it restructures the entire federal government in a way the next president could not easily fix. >> that's exactly right, and it is designed to be not an aspirational set of ideas or just proposals or value structures, it's an actual plan. and you know that because the one document that's not public is not the 900-page policy document everyone's talking about but rather the 190-day agenda that's a step by step instruction manual. what every single office, every single department, every single key entity is supposed to do. underneath that is identifying thousands of key federal government positions that need to be terminated immediately and

firing those individuals. and already they have a database of more than 4,000 people they prevetted that would be immediately slotted into those roles. it's both a transition team and deep plan already baked into one. and the design here as you noted is tee structure the government and do it in such a way it can't really be unwound but in a way even worse turn it into donald trump's revenge. >> the most boring thing i've ever heard in terms of a name except what we don't think about whether you're from the united states or canada or the u.k. or germany or france or any of these places is that you don't know the names of people in civil service by design. other than the top person, the minister or something or top secretary of a department, you know no one else's names because they're either career people or experts. the schedule and project 2025 changes that. >> as you noted civil service. the idea these people are doing public service. they're not doing it for the money. they're not doing it for the

hours or the perks. they're doing it because it is actually a service. and one of the things is reclassify what would be civil service positions and sort of reorients them around something that allows them to be treated as political appointees. >> we're not talking about 50 jobs or 500 jobs or 5,000 jobs. we're talking about 50,000 positions in the american government that you and i would think of as civil service jobs occupied by people whose names we don't know and will never know reclassified as political jobs. that sounds like countries that we talk about that have unstable governments. >> that's right. and if you think about this in the context of what the right-wing has railed against not just their ideas, but one of the things we heard over and over again was that it was the deep state that was stopping donald trump from implementing a lot of the policies that the rest of the right-wing really wanted. and this is really a way to sort of go at what the right-wing has identified as the deep state,

and ultimately as youed it's the civil serve wants, but that's why they see this as the mechanism. this is the part so scary about it. it's not just what's being proposed is they actually unlike last time around when trump got into office and after he lost the last election, this time they actually have a resourced plan and the personnel to implement it. and what you're seeing here is sort of this backsliding around project 2025 where it attempts to do that, you notice they're not rejecting the notions around it or ideas and there's sort of this winking and dance. and that's the part that's so unsettling. they know it's not popular, but they are bent on sort of implementing it, and we should all be sort of deeply concerned about it. >> and kevin roberts, the guy in charge of the heritage foundation have come out and said of course they're going to disavow it. but once they come into government, this is the plan. and everybody involved -- no one involved in it is disavowing it, and these are people who are in trump's inner, inner circle. this is not peripheral people

when had minor jobs in the trump administration. >> that's exactly right. and look, i know why maybe perhaps they wanted delay the release of this book i mean especially until after the election. now there's a spotlight, now the media is paying attention to it and asking the kind of questions and looking into this. i know why. we have a copy of the book actually. one of the things kevin roberts writes in his book he describes that having a child should not be considered an individual choice. and there's an entire argument in the book about how you -- that it's not a personal choice, it's something society should impose on people which is why they're opposed to contraception and it needs to be banned. part of what that book is it's designed to martial a narrative around that policy to be implemented around project 2025. >> you should get a free copy of the hands maids tale when you read kevin roberts book. it feels like the same thing.

the president and ceo of media matters for america. we appreciate your time tonight. still to come new action taken by georgia this week may make it easier for trump allied election officials in that state to refuse to certify november's election. we'll explain how next. we'll explain how next before apoquel chewable for allergic itch. giving dogs pills was a battle of wits. oh, maria, i'm wise to your foolish game. is it gone? totally gone. itch relief just got easier. apoquel. the trusted number one treatment for allergic itch is now available in a tasty chewable that works in a day. do not use in dogs with serious infections. may cause worsening of existing parasitic skin infestations or preexisting cancers and serious infections. new neoplasias have been observed. do not use in dogs less than 12 months old. ask your vet for apoquel chewable. do it!

janice johnson, rick

jeffries, and janelle king, three people are all pitbulls fighting for honesty, transparency, and victory. >> donald trump last night in atlanta name checking three members of georgia state board of elections, all republicans and all of whom have questioned the results of the 2020 election. just yesterday three months before the next presidential election in a 3-2 vote those three pitbulls that donald trump talked about approved a rule that threatened to upend how elections certified in georgia. this is really important. the new rule empowers county election board members to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry, end quote, into whether election results are complete and accurate before they officially certify them. however, the new rule doesn't define what a reasonable inquiry entails, which means officials in georgia's 159 counties can decide for themselves each of

them what they consider "reasonable." and therein lies the problem. democratic elections attorney mark elias calls this new rule, quote, another powerful tool in donald trump's election subversion arsenal. saying, quote, he wants to be able to pick and choose which election results are accepted based solely on the outcome. this rule is a step in that direction. now, that was yesterday. today the state board of elections met again, this time those three pitbulls took another eyebrow raising action. voting to ask the state attorney general to reopen an investigation into how fulton county handled the 2020 election. joining me now is sarah tindal ganzel, thesole democratic member of the georgia board of elections. thanks for being here. it's mind-boggling. i want to start with the second part first, looking into how fulton county handled the 2020

elections. it's not like we haven't talked about this or thought about it before. the entire country knows where fulton county is what happened to the elections in fulton county. what are the folk on this election board talking about? >> well, thank you for that. we've looked into fulton county probably a half a dozen times in different complaints, different issues. the latest complaint was related to a batch of ballots, 3,000 ballots or so that was double scanned, which fulton county admitted to. ironically the actual votes on those ballots were disproportionately in favor of former president, trump. so it did not affect the outcome. there was a mistake made, and they were double scanned. and there were some tabulator tapes missing from some of the scanners that were used in early voting. but the issue here is this was

investigated exhaustively, and we disposed of the case with a letter of reprimand and a sort of gentleman's agreement to try to come up with a monitoring team, an independent monitoring team who would be in place to monitor the 2024 elections to make sure that the sorts of mistakes that we saw in 2020 don't recur in 2024. but this case was disposed of in may, and that is the end of the story under -- under georgia law, under georgia supreme court precedent, we cannot reopen a case that's been closed because that just -- that opens a whole can of worms. that means nothing is ever truly -- >> nothing is ever resolved. >> exactly. >> and now this other issue, reasonable inquiry. on the one hand i understand wanting to be as good as you can about this whole thing, but reasonable inquiry is not

defined, so what does that mean? that you're ready to certify counties election results and someone just reasonably doesn't think that's the thing to do? >> well, that's exactly the question. i mean, what does reasonable inquiry mean? it would mean something different to you, something different to me. regulations are supposed to provide more clarity and more definition, not less. here georgia statutory law provides very, very explicit definition of exactly the steps that a county superintendent is supposed to take to make sure that they're accounting for every vote that's cast. that's what certification is. adding this rule makes it appear that what is very clearly under the state statute and under 100 years of precedent is what's called a ministerial duty. in other words, a mandatory act. this makes it appear that there's some discretion that the counties are able to exercise, and that's simply not the case

under georgia law. >> the best i can say on that one is sigh because we're not looking for more problems, we're looking for fewer problems. sara, thank you for joining us tonight. thank you for your time. all right, still ahead tensions continue to rise across the middle east in the aftermath of hamas leader ismail haniyeh's assassination last week. i'll talk to ben rhodes about the possibility of a larger conflict breaking out next. t the possibility of a larger conflict breaking out next nt. cd readers you can rely on. and one place to manage it all. whatever the stage, businesses that grow grow with shopify.

why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. sleep number does that. thank you. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. shop now at a sleep number store near you. ryan t. writes, "moving is stressful. can you help me take one thing off of my to do list?” ugh, moving's the worst. with xfinity, you can transfer your internet in just a few taps. just a few easy moves. did somebody say “easy moves”? ♪ ♪ oh no. no, i was talking about moving your internet. this will move the internet. ♪ ♪ ooh, ooh. -let's keep it professional. professional dancers! -ok! stay connected during your move with the best in home wifi. easily transfer your services in the xfinity app. bring on the good stuff.

tonight tensions in the middle east are on a knife's edge as the biden administration along with u.s. allies in western and arab countries scramble to prevent all out war in the region. ever since ismail haniyeh was assassinated in tehran last week, iran has threatened broad retaliation against israel, which so far has not taken responsibility for the killing but is largely considered the perpetrator. president biden has reportedly sent strong messages of deterrent to both israel and

iran. according to david ignaceous of "the washington post" iran may be heeding those calls. quote, iran may be reconsidering a plan for major retaliation. hezbollah, iran's proxy in lebanon, is still a wild card, officials said. joining me now is ben rhodes, former deputy national security advisor under president obama. he's now co-host of "pod save the world." ben, important to talk to you about this because there's a lot going on, and it's very dangerous situation because if the wrong thing happens, if it's a miscalculation, we could explode into a regional war and perhaps something bigger. as of now mutt we've seen is israel does stuff to another country and another country does something fairly targeted back to israel and everybody avoid a major war. why is everyone so worried about this one becoming bigger? >> well, ali, you have to consider this being a regional war since october 7th. what we've seen since october 7th is a full-blown war in gaza, a fairly active war with the houthis in yemen, and then

sporadic confrontation with some of the iranian proxies across the region. and then hezbollah in a fairly regular exchange of fire with israel across that northern border of israel, and then a couple of incidents that have struck into iran and most notably that one where the iranians launched a significant number of cruise missiles at israel in response to a bombing of their consulate in syria. i say all that because they've been able to manage the escalation so that hezbollah and iran directly do not get into a kind of full-scale conflict with israel. that's something the administration has try today do since october 7th. i think the killing of haniyeh in tehran after the inauguration of a new president and killing of a syrian commander kind of raised the escalatory stakes for both israel and iran. the reason beam are on tenterhooks right now the ball is in the court of both iran and hezbollah to respond, and the

question is if they respond in a escalatory nature themselves, we could see that spiral into a broader regional war. >> in addition to joe biden trying to get everybody to bring the temperature down, you had jordan sending in envoy to iran to ask them to cool it. we had qatar and egypt even the saudis while sympathizing with iran while trying to retaliate for something that happened inside their country is calling for deescalation. benjamin netanyahu has have many years hoped the united states would get into a confrontation with iran. one of the worst things that happened to him when you were serving in the administration and the iran nuclear deal took place, which created a dialogue between iran and the united states. that is the danger here because when iran sent those projectiles into israel, it was the u.s. and other countries that were involved in shooting them down. the u.s. is trying to think at this point not to be directly involved in this. >> yeah, and if you look at what

netanyahu has done he keeps poking further and further in terms of provocative actions towards hezbollah and iran. he knew if you assassinate the leader of hamas in tehran and an irgc revolutionary guest right after the inauguration of the president, you kind of know you're in a dicy situation. in the some way you take on hezbollah commanders deep inside of lebanon, you're risking escalation. what netanyahu is counting on the u.s. will have his back. the danger of that is do you get dragged into some kind of war so just so we name the stakes, ali, this could destroy lebanon. this could essentially cause the implosion of the lebanese state. it would light iraq on fire where they could target u.s. forces and we've already seen an attack on an a u.s. personnel facility in iraq. and worst-case scenario it blows up with iran, major disruptions and shipments and energy. the decision-maker ipisrael is

netanyahu, and he seems to be continually pressing to see how far he can go in terms of provoking hezbollah and iran. and there are people who want an all out conflict of iran. they think at this point we're going to have to settle this, now is the time to do it. netanyahu is trying to pull -- biden is trying to pull netanyahu back to the reasonable center policy here which is de-escalate things with hezbollah and israel. right now the decision making is in tehran and hezbollah, and that's why you have to work with qatar and other countries with connections into those places than we do. >> i assume we're going to see something happen. the issue is how serious it is. thank you for joining me, ben rhodes. all right, that's our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. as attorney general, i held the big wall street banks accountable for