>> it is bad . it is exactly what you said. the highest tax rate is 37%. it goes down to 30%. millionaires, who are already escaping taxation, they get a lower rate. they want the income from stock to go down from 20% to 15%, which would be higher than working-class americans would pay, because they don't have money in the stock market in a way that gives them access to that low 15% rate. working-class, middle-class americans would see their taxes go up and the richest americans like those oil barons who are in the room with trump talking about getting tax breaks, talking about getting policies that support them, those people , those billionaires, they would love this and that is just not fair. >> good to talk to you. thank you so much. what the route is professor and chair of taxation and author of

"the whiteness of wealth." straightahead, both kamala harris and donald trump are out west this weekend. that is where any similarities exist. arthur george joins me to discuss his pulitzer prize- winning novel quote, all the light we cannot see. another hour of "velshi" starts now. good morning. it is saturday, august 10th. we are 87 days away from the election. there has been a palpable shift in the election ever since kamala harris took over as democratic presidential nominee. for the first time in a long time, the vibes are good within the democratic party, with something of an emphasis on the word, party. it was only a few weeks ago when donald trump offered a fresh attempt on his life which

seemed to offer all the momentum, which gave the republicans something to be pumped about at the national convention last month. now it is harris and the democrats that appear to be running a more enthusiastic campaign. democratic delegates officially made errors the party nominee this wednesday at the democratic convention will take place next week. harris has been on the campaign blitz with her newly chosen running make, governor tim walz. yesterday, many supporters waited in line in 105 degrees heat ahead of their rally in lindale, arizona, where the pair continued to draw a sharp contest contrast between the cafe they are running at trump's campaign of retribution. >> she has brought back compassion and decency, and humor, and joy to our politics! >> what kind of country do we want to live in? do we want to live in a country of chaos,

fear, and hate? or a country of freedom, compassion, and rule of law? >> arizona was the fourth battleground state the pair visited in as many days. more than 50,000 people turned out yesterday. moments ago, harris posted on social media about the success of that event. quote, some are calling our rally the largest in arizona political campaign history. okay, sorry, i missed that. harris and walz hosted energized rallies this week in pennsylvania attended by 20,000 people. wisconsin, also attended by more than 12,000 people, and one in michigan, attended by 15,000 people, according to the harris campaign. that level of enthusiasm may actually be moving the needle.

according to brenda poling released this morning by the "new york times" and siena college, harris is leading trump, 50-46 in those important battleground states. there are other small signs voters are responding well to be upbeat campaign. thursday, cook political report changed their forecast for three other battleground states, arizona, nevada, and georgia. all three have been rated as leaning republican. they are back in the tossup category. they will continue their campaign blitz in a fifth swing state of nevada, which biden won by fewer than 1000 votes in 2020. meanwhile, trump has held only one rally in the battleground state this month, georgia. he emerged on thursday to give a rambling and bizarre press conference at mar-a-lago. then, he appeared at a rally in the deep red state of montana last night, where it became apparent that harris's well attended rallies are starting to get under his skin, making them wish that biden was back in the race. >> i hear he is going to make a comeback at the democratic

convention. he is going to walk into the room and say, i want my presidency back. i want another chance to debate trump, i want another chance. >> trump was in montana, in part to campaign for tim sheehy, republican candidate for senate, going up against jon tester, a guy who trump dislikes very much. harris's search in the presidential race has forced trump to be on the defensive. enthusiasm for her campaign has led to record-breaking numbers and amounts of donations, which has resulted in here is having a lot more cash on hand that her republican opponent. that may be one of the reasons why trump has spent a lot of time attending private fundraisers lately, instead of hitting campaign trails with his embattled running mate, j.d. vance. the former president has struggled to figure out an effective strategy to attack harris. his recent attempt to question her blackness completely backfired and none of the nicknames he has been testing

out for her has stuck so far. he has called her incompetent and dumb, claiming she can't string two sentences together and criticized her for not holding a crest press conference or send out for an interview since becoming a party's nominee. okay. here is trump trying to stream two sentences together at the press conference he held in mar- a-lago thursday in response to a specific, very direct yes or no question about whether he would ban the abortion drug for persona. >> you can do things that would supplement, absolutely. those things are pretty open and humane, but you have to be able to have a boat --vote. >> if those criticisms have familiar, it is because trump is recycling some of the same old attack lines he used on biden. when all else fails, he has pivoted to fear mongering. in an email sent out this week on his campaign claims that harris and walz will quote, unleash hell on earth. compare that with walz, the candidate bringing back joy to politics. worse, the harris-walz campaign

is a departure from the campaign biden was running, which focused largely on saving democracy from from here it harris may have improved on biden's numbers in some polls, but the question now, what else are campaign needs to do to keep this energy and build this moment in the next three months. you are molly thomas as a correspondent for vanity fair, and in is nbc lytic is-- msnbc political analyst . also, best selling author of many books, including the crash of 2016, the plot to destroy america and what we can do to stop it, good morning to both of you. thank you for being with me this morning. molly, let's start with you. some are trying to spin the notes from earlier this summer. they argue harris has nowhere to go but up. there something going on here, you have seen the zoom meetings, the volunteer numbers the donor numbers. there is something organic happening around the harris campaign, and

then with the addition of tim walz. >> yeah. i take it is a really good campaign. people really like her. she has gotten to be really gifted, obama level or a tour. you know, she was very much underestimated by the mainstream media. quite frankly, she has command. you hear her up there and she is confident. she is cold. she is commanding. for whatever reason, america is ready for her to me which is very exciting. i would also say, trump has been using these same attacks against three different residential candidates . against harris, against biden, and against hillary. they just don't-- you can do it once or twice, but the third time, it really feels recycled. >> tom, it seems we have at

least one debate to look forward to. let's talk about some of the issues that donald trump and j.d. vance are leveling against harris and walz. they are calling them liberals, they are calling the radicals, their calling them socialist, sometimes communist, for putting forward the policies we have seen the biden and harris team do as administration and was max lewis governor. things that are widely popular in america, widely popular around the developed world, including in countries not run by liberals. things like healthcare, childcare, maternal care, things like maternity and paternity leave, things like school lunches. these are things that around the world, people think of as normal and donald trump is trying to radical. >> they are very much normal. this recycled-- this goes back to reagan. the republicans have been calling these normal things like precollege, or good

national healthcare system, like every other developed country in the world has, as socialism and communism. i just don't think it is working anymore. i think americans have figured this out. i also think there is this principle to waste you motivate people. you either move them away from pain, like touching a hot stove, that is the fastest way to get an instant response, like lightning, or you move toward pleasure, this slow system sort of like gravity. it lasts much longer, but does not have the immediate impact. what republicans have been doing, and particularly trump, the be afraid strategy for years now, and people are exhausted by it. that is the problem with using a moving away from pain motivation strategy. eventually exhaust people. that is why i think it is so brilliant that harris and walz have moved away from a totally legitimate argument that joe biden was making, a threat to

democracy. that is still out there. the feds are moving away from pain strategy, shifted toward a movement of pleasure strategy, which has much more power over a much longer term, as that moving away from pain strategy. >> one of the things i was reading about, molly, this is what they used against pinochet in 1980. he was terrible. he really did terrible things. the hope was the theme of the campaign to get people to vote to replace him. ruth points out, it is actually a really good antidote for people who were authoritarians, or had authoritarian tendencies . i would not have thought so, because i, like joe biden, lead into, if you make the wrong decision november 5th, you could be seeing the end of democracy. kamala harris's campaign is smarter than me here they are doing something that seems to be working here.

>> i will say two things can be true. we can hold two thoughts in our head. what, project 2025 is the real trump agenda. we have say that because his name is mentioned more than 300 types of the document. also, that harris-walz ticket is actually offering something, not just avoid authoritarianism, but also, you get free breakfast for kids. these are widely popular things. one of the problems republicans have had is there policies are not popular. what we have seen since the fall of roe, it is not popular to have republican politicians in with women's doctors. that is not how anyone wants to live. i think these are not just popular things. republicans are not running on popular policies . democrats, luckily for them, because the stakes of this election are so high,. >> tom, earlier this week kamala harris, who by the way has stepped out a substantially more empathetic view of the israeli and gaza war that joe biden has, we are seeing

criticism for how she handled protesters who interrupted her rally. a very different approach with similar protesters disrupted her rally in arizona last night me calling for cease-fire in the middle east. listen to what she did last night. >> we are here to fight for our democracy. which includes respecting the voices that i think we are hearing from, and let me just say this, or topic of what i think i am hearing over there. let me speak to that for a moment, and then i will get back to the business at hand. so let me say, i have been clear , now is the time to get a cease-fire deal and get the hostage deal done!

>> this is a tricky one for her, because she is a part of an administration people who are protesting or criticizing, not in a position at the moment to change biden-harris administration policy, but i think it showed she was listening to some of that criticism this week. >> i agree. it is a nuanced argument on one level. on the other, particularly young people across america watching what is going on, actually i think most americans watch what is going on in gaza right now. literally, you have starvation in some places and they are just horrified by it and it is fairly clear that vitamin that yahoo is very committed to getting his friend donald trump reelected and stay out of prison . i think kamala harris shifted closer to this position of, we are going to do everything we can to stop the destruction and death of gaza, and bring about a two-step solution, some sort of reconciliation and get the

hostages back, powerful messaging. >> thank you to both of you, good to see you, molly, special correspondent with "vanity fair." and thom hartman great to have you on the show here donald trump claims the top of the democratic ticket is somehow unconstitutional. if your conservative uncle has picked up this nonsense, i will show you how to debunk it, next. plus, former president donald trump disputes vice president kamala harris's heritage in a room full of black people last week. week. ♪ (man) oh, come on. ♪ (woman) ugh. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get $800 off the new galaxy z fold6. only on verizon. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z.

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i came to bayview hunter's point, where there was only one pediatrician to serve more than 10,000 children. daniel lurie said, i'm going to help. we opened a clinic for our most vulnerable children. i have worked shoulder to shoulder with him as we have brought solutions where people

thought the problem was unsolvable. daniel doesn't take excuses. he holds himself accountable. and i know that he can do it for the city of san francisco. this summer in paris, we're seeing hard work, dedication, and a whole lot of... [“joy (unspeakable)” by voices of fire ft. pharrell williams begins to play] anastasia pagonis still feeling the joy. grant holloway how about that! keep the flair, keep the emotion, keep the showman, the sport needs it. ♪ ♪ after donald trump and his allies spent months dragging joe biden for his mental age and mental acuity, they have cleared flat-footed when

someone younger and sharper took over the ticket. now, according to trump, americans are being ripped off because get this, the campaign was stolen from biden. >> this was taken away. the presidency was taken away from joe biden weird i am no biden fan, but i tell you what, from a constitutional standpoint, from any standpoint you look at, they took the presidency away. from a country with a constitution we cherish, we cherish this constitution to have done it this way is pretty severe, pretty horrible. you would have thought they would have gone to a vote, they would've had a primary system. they would have done something, but they just take it away from him like he was a child. >> hearing him say, we cherish the constitution is pretty rich. this is not the first time, by the way, trump has made this claim. he has posted or truth social many times climbing, the democrats have taken a candidate and unceremoniously replaced him with a new candidate. he has even likened the whole situation to a coup. if you are

like me, you have seen versions of trump's ally all over social media and maybe hearing it from your conservative uncle. i want to give credence to every ridiculous claim that donald trump throws out. this seems like you can debunk it yourself when in the company of conspiracy theorists in your life. for flexpay, the presidency was not taken from joe biden, nor has vice president kamala harris unconstitutionally robbed biden of the democratic nomination. in fact, the u.s. constitution does not address the matter of the party nomination processes. here are talking points to provide to your extra loud uncle. joe biden won the delegates during the democratic process and clinched the presumptive nomination back in march. he was not formally the democratic nominee, he was the presumptive nominee. this allowed him to, after much consideration, step aside

voluntarily. he was not kicked off the party ticket. while the whole gambit may have been a politically risky move, there was absolutely nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it. kevin cara's name was attached to biden's name, and they elected her as vice president, which is the person that takes over for the president if needed. the argument that the american public did not have a chance to vote for harris is categorically false. also, they will have a chance to vote for, or not before her on november 5th. there are rules for this exact scenario. harris, in order to officially take biden's place on the ticket, needed to secure support from at least 200-- 250 democratic delegates, including those who already pledged their support for biden, and elected officials, former presidents, and other party leaders, dubbed superdelegates. low and behold, she did that. the dnc had a virtual rollcall

to make sure everything was squared away. last week, it was announced that here secured enough delegate votes to become the party's official nominee. to avoid any applications when it came to the physical ballot, the democratic party held that virtual rollcall to make sure that here's's name, along with her running mate, tim walz, could be printed on the ballot by the august certification deadline. if the party wanted to replace their nominee after the convention, that would be a different story, although not unconstitutional, because the constitutional is silent on party nominations. anyone who tells you otherwise is woefully misunderstanding this process or being deliberately misleading. as steve bennett puts it quote, biden was free to retire voluntarily. he was free to endorse his vice president as his successor. harris was free to seek our party's nomination, and democrats were few free to choose her. the idea that the constitution somehow prohibits this development is ridiculous. he adds, what voters are

confronting, in other words is a politician who appears to convince himself that unconstitutional, and stuff that bothers me, are synonymous . they are not. if donald trump wants to talk about things that are unconstitutional in an attempt to steal the election away from the people, i would be happy to remind him of january fixed. -- january 6th. and es -- january 6th. (other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that? (fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. (other money manager) but you still sell commission -based products, right? (fisher investments) no. we have a simple management fee structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) huh, we're more different than i thought! (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. can you do this? as early as your 40s you may lose muscle and strength. protein supports muscle health. ensure max protein has a 30 gram blend of high quality protein to feed muscles for up to seven hours. so take the challenge. ensure, nutrition for strength and energy.

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course both indian and black. but donald trump knew that. his ascension to the white house was powered by the lies to and make no mistake, that is what he was doing deliberately when he falsely questioned kamala harris's likeness. he knows very well the unwritten rules of black race mixed identity embedded in the society from slavery. as pointed out in "the "new york times" magazine, quote, people like donald trump forget that when a city in america by quote, such a thing there was something nefarious or politically contrived about a mixed race person claiming blackness of her identity was acting as if the choice had not been made to harris when she was born to a black father. he goes on to point out the roles of race would still govern society today date back to slavery when european colonists decided who could be enslaved and who could be free. they began drafting systems of racial classification. children of european men and black enslaved women were black

and inherently, inflatable. their whiteness was not recognized. nicole had jones says, the belief that blackness transcends all other identities is the american way. quote, trump and some of the republican party are engaging in an age-old american tradition that dictates that only white targets to define race and racial categorization, and those that wield that power can create rules or abandon them, so long as the rules benefit whiteness. joining me now is the affirmation nicole hannah jones, pulitzer prize winner for the new york times magazine, creator of the 1916 project, founder of the center for journalism and democracy at howard university and inspiration for the velshi banned bookclub, nice to see you, thank you for joining us. i want to start with the in a bj --nabj conference from last week, you were there in the room when donald trump suggested that, harris turned black for her own political gain. what was your reaction to that? >> one, i was not shocked. we know that this is what

donald trump does. he speaks dishonestly. he pretends not to know things that we all know that he does. and he likes to insult black journalists. i was not surprised by it, but of course, we had a pushback on that. everyone in that room, who is a black journalist, knows that is nonsense. we know that kamala harris has written about her black identity, we know that kamala harris attended a historical black college, that she placed the oldest black sorority in the nation. what he was trying to do is seize division, but portray kamala harris as a liar . >> i guess i am going to ask a question that can be asked about absolutely everything donald trump says about anything, what is the danger of this rhetoric from trump in a presidential election? a lot of people say, it is 2024, people can't possibly take that nonsense he said on that stage seriously, some do. >> the danger, of course is, we

know that this is going to be a very tight race. this race will be won around the margin. it is just another way of trying to make people be skeptical. if you say a person is lying about something as fundamental as her identity, then that is a way to cause people to question many other things that she might say. i don't actually know who this message was for. i don't know if this message was for black folks, who are visually know the truth of how racial identity works, or if it was for white people who were undecided, or just for his face, it is unclear. the problem is, the more disinformation thrown out there, the harder it begins for all of us to make educated choices about who we are going to vote for. so, this is a part, as you know a long pattern of this information as a campaign strategy that donald trump has engaged in. and i think the more

disinformation that is out there by the head of the ticket, that is just dangerous for democracy in general. >> i want to read a quote from your piece in the "new york times" magazine about how race operates in society. quote, when i was a child, my dad said my older sister and be down in our living room and explained to us the rules of race in america. the black man reported to mississippi where black boys could be lynched for merely standing too close to a white woman. he met my white mom in 1972, a few years after the supreme court in loving versus virginia finally struck down ,300 worth of laws prohibiting people who descended from slavery barry people whose ancestors had enslaved them. in other words, that had no illusions about how race worked in our society and felt it was his duty as a parent to prepare us. our mother might be white he told us, but in this country, that fact was irrelevant to how we might be seen or treated. she might be white, but we were

black. how does that preparation, that conversation affect your outlook on america? >> well, what it helped us understand from a young age is something many americans say, but i don't think truly comprehend, race is a construct, whiteness is a construct. it was an idea made up by europeans as they were determined in the earliest years of america, who was going to have access to our political system, our social system, our economic resources. what donald trump was doing when he said well, kamala turned black, is pretending he does not understand that blackness is a mate of the. most like people, because of the legacy of slavery, have both european and ex-african ancestry. ancestry is real. we all come from a place, and that determines our physical characteristics. our father understood that my having a mom whose ancestry

dated to europe, and a father whose ancestry dated to africa and europe, because of this one drop rule that white people created, but that the only thing relevant was the african ancestry. that blackness would overcome everything else. if he wanted to raise children who would be able to navigate society, there could be no confusion about that. now, donald trump is trying to sow confusion. there is no confusion about that. people do look at me and say, that is a black woman. that has nothing to do with what my parents were. it has to do with seeing any bits of black ancestry. we have all been taught that that makes you black. >> that socialization has nothing to do with you -- what you identify with, it has to do with what others identify u.s., sappy.correct, but the society in which we live. thank you as always. also prize-winning to the "new york times" creator of the 6019

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gaza overnight. according to local officials, at least 100 people were killed and 150 more injured by an israeli airstrike on a school complex in gaza city. they also told nbc news that 60 people are missing, stuck under the rubble where officials can't reach them. the school was home to more than 4200 displaced people, according to the gaza civil defense. the strikes hit local people sheltering at the school were performing prayers at dawn. israeli military say, militants, including senior commanders, were embedded among the displaced population of gazans and had been operating from that location. for more on this, i am joined by ellison barber who is in hafa, israel for us. what is the latest and what do we know about this? you know, this video is just horrific. there is no other word for it. in the video, you see and hear adults, children, screaming, crying as they are making their way through all of the debris. rescuers who were in the area,

and as you said, they say they are still looking for 60 unaccounted for people. they say, a lot of the times, they were coming across just pieces of people, body parts, not entire people. that is why the search efforts. has been so challenging. the idea of telling a different story than what we are hearing from officials inside of gaza. a statement from the idf spokesperson lieutenant on x, he says, based on israeli intelligence, roughly 20 hamas and militants, including, he says, senior commanders were operating from the compound that was struck at the school and that they were using it, in his words, to carry out terroristic attacks. he wrote that the compound in the mosque in it served as an act of hamas facility, and went on to question the death toll and numbers that were released by officials inside gaza, but without providing any additional, specific evidence. meanwhile, we saw the last 24 hours, last night two other

separate airstrikes in central gaza that killed at least 13 people, according to local officials. that happened in the city of dear all ball. according to the ids, they say, with this strike me as with many they have seen in recent days, weeks, and perhaps throughout the course of this war, they were targeting hamas militants, command centers what they described as terrorist and terrorist infrastructures. this video we are showing you, and if we can stop it for a second, i want to warn people and explain what we are looking at here. we want to show you this video, not because we want to be incredibly graphic, because i think it is important to understand the reality of what is happening. because we do keep hearing these messages from the idf saying, we are targeting hamas military command centers. that is from the two separate overnight strikes that happened in a more central gaza. in that, and we can show this video again now, but i want to warn people, it is incredibly graphic. what you are looking at here is a father. his name is yusuf. he is

leaning over the bodies of three of his children, all of which were killed in those overnight airstrikes. he is saying, crying in arabic, i swear to god, oh my god, and speaking to his dead son say, your sister is with you. he goes on to say, oh my god, why us? why is gaza only being targeted ? three children killed in this video alone, what airstrike that happened overnight, one family. there children, names, mohammed, just 7 years old, just 4 years old, and sammy, just 1 years old. we keep hearing and seeing the strikes from idf officials that they were targeted strikes and they often use that word on hamas militants, but we have seen, in particularly the last 24 hours, videos from our teams inside of gaza and they tell a very different story. >> thank you for your great reporting on this. ellison barber, it hafa,

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and just 6-year-old, she was blinded by cataracts. she spent her time reading in braille, exploring her neighborhood, aided by an intricate, wooden model aided to scale by her beloved father. a priceless and cursed blue diamond, called the city of flames. once paris is occupied by nazi forces, marie and her father mostly to live with her reclusive and shellshocked great uncle. over the border in germany, they are orphaned after nicole michael epps kills their father. as a passionate gift for understanding technology, chiefly repairing a critical part of nazi infrastructure, radios. he is landed at a place of one of the national institutes of education, the draconian nazi military school, and in the nazi armed forces. as a soldier on the road, he is tasked with finding who and where illegal radio transmissions are sent. as

allied forces make landfall on the beaches of normandy, their paths converge over questions of fate, coincidence, morality, love, and the futility of war. many members of the velshi banned bookclub will already know the name of the novel i just summarized, because today's feature is not just a total prize winner, or acclaimed literary work, or contemporary classic, or "new york times" bestseller, "all the lights we cannot see by anthony doerr is beloved. centered in world war ii, it is a master class in nonlinear storytelling, not only do the chapters shift their focus between murray lowe and werner, finally converging with with the battle of saint-malo in 1944, the entire novel jumps back and forth through time. the result is enveloping and intensely suspenseful. while "all the light we cannot

see" is set in world war ii, it is not a holocaust book, rather grapples with morality, human connection, and faith when confronted with the shattering brutalities of war. "all the light we cannot see" is one of those books that cannot be aptly summarized with just plot points alone. the little group literal writing style compels the story from the first page. perhaps most notably is how doerr explored sensory details, allowing the reader to slip into the cyprus world. quote, to shut your eyes is to suggest nothing of blindness. but if your world of skies and faces and buildings exist a rawer and bolder world, a place where surface plates disintegrate and sound ribbon destroyers the air. marie-lori can sit in the attic and hear marshes two miles away. despite the praise, warts, and fierce loyalty readers have for this book, "all the light we cannot see" was not permitted as reading material for the

12th grade english class in glendale district school in canberra counted, pennsylvania. this is not the only time this has happened. this book is regularly removed from libraries and classrooms across the country. we wanted to feature this book, not just for its literate literary merit or how immensely loved it is, it is because it puts the book banning epidemic in contrast. if "all the light we cannot see" can successfully be kept off shelves in high school, successfully centers-- censored, what happens next? when we come back, i am joined by anthony doerr, author of "all the light we cannot see" for today's "all the light we cannot see" feature. . and i use this. febreze has a microchip to control scent release so it smells first-day fresh for 50 days. 50 days!? and its refill reminder light means i'll never miss a day of freshness. ♪

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i have worked shoulder to shoulder with him as we have brought solutions where people thought the problem was unsolvable. daniel doesn't take excuses. he holds himself accountable. and i know that he can do it for the city of san francisco. today's velshi banned bookclub meeting is officially underway. i am joined by the author of the pulitzer prize-winning book, "all the light we cannot see". take you for being a member of the velshi banned bookclub. ever since putting it out on social media and tv say that you and i were going to talk, a number of people have written back, truly surprised that anyone would have tried to ban or remove this book for those that don't understand, why would they? >> oh gosh. i don't know either, ali!

first of all, thanks for having me. thank you for featuring my book. you are so good at incorporating text in your show, i love it. i asked my publicist, can we figure out why before this interview? it was better for me if i kept making my work. i know so many writers who are targeted, writers of color, writing about characters of color, writing about characters in the lgbtqia plus community. any visibility that you can give to these books under attack is so valuable. i just appreciate it. sure, people asking, why is this book being challenged helps them ask, why other books are being challenged is the important thing. >> the why a book is being challenged is generally uninteresting. it is generally always the same five reasons for all of history. but the concept that books are being challenged, which it is surprising that these books are on the list is the important

part. a major motif throughout the book is the power of technology. in the book, it is radio technology. the radio is a tool to both save and destroy. i read the title as, at least partially in reference to radio waves that we cannot actually see. talk to me more about this. >> absolutely. i was on a train from princeton , new jersey to new york city is like an hour long. this was in 2004, right around the bush-kerry election and they got in the seat in front of me is talking on his 2004 sarah phone cell phone about the movie, the matrix. the train goes into manhattan, steel and concrete are flowing above the train, his call drops that he is looking at his phone like-- he is cursing at his phone, wondering, why can't i have this conversation? and he is expecting this tiny radio inside this tiny machine, no bigger than a deck of cards, a little transmitter to send

packets at the speed of light between radio towers miles apart and he is expecting this technology to work, to have a conversation with someone who all i know might have been in madagascar, for all i know. i just love with literature, with a work of art can wake you up to the miracles that are around you, and this idea we can send light, using invisible light through walls to communicate the way you and i are communicate right now. that is new in the history of humanity. usually, titles, late to me. that day, i wrote in my notebook on my way to see my publisher, "all the light we cannot see" here at visible light is less than 1020 on the political magnetic spectrum. they can see far more of a wider range and the chromatic spectrum that we can. i started to play around with how are we limited? what kinds of light can we see? really diving into radio and this new technology, viewers are thinking about now, this

new technology arrives in the world and allows a light to be multiplied 1 million times over at the speed of light, and sent through walls. that is brand-new. for the whole history of humanity until this point, you have to be in the same room as the people you were communicating with. suddenly, now this information becomes a thing. joseph goebbels is a horrific tropicana minister of the nazi party in 1932, he is working hard to nationalize radio, manufacturing in germany, but reduce prices so that it becomes more accessible. they were usually successful. >> that was central to his job. make technology accessible. have everybody have these things, have radio waves out there. this is where the contemporary. you read this book about world war ii, you are thinking about exactly what is going on now, without giving away anything. an important part of the novel takes place in the present, 2014 , with the novel was first published, there you create

legacy of the lasting impact of war. i will quote from the book, every hour, so what for whom the war was memory falls out of the world. tell me what that means. >> gosh, we live in this really fraught time. you think about the olympics in france, you think about the legacy of all of the soldiers who were on the beaches of normandy. we are losing every day. and we lose the last folks for whom war is memory. that can be a dangerous time in history. as history transmutes from memory to history, it is a little bit easier to alter narratives. of course you can see the second world war is used all the time. anything from political speeches to videogames as ways to kind of tell certain stories, often a very clean story of good versus evil, which content to be a little dangerous. i think it is too simplistic to

say this was an aberration that happened in the late 30s in germany and will never happen again. it is much more complicated and important to ask yourself, how does a civilization get to this point? how does a society start to believe things that are not necessarily true for german citizens became illegal, soon publishable by death, once the war is fully going. by the end of the war, gustavo would put out false advertisements to short-term radio. you might be able to receive international broadcast, and would arrest and sometimes execute people for trying to buy those radios. just like us, we have so many predilections to try to believe that want to belong in things. i think in fiction, in every way, fiction is a great way to try to investigate the complexity, you total toward the university, through the individual. that is why you celebrate so well in this book club.

i think that is the best way to try to understand what people have gone through in the past and what people are going through in other cultures, even with other plaintiff if you believe science fiction can execute that kind of stuff. >> this is a thank you for the tribute of the book club and a tribute to you and other authors who are out there trying to tell interesting stories and interesting ways that will help people compelled to learn. we will have you back want to celebrate the fact that this book challenging bs is behind us. for now, carry on and keep on the good fight. anthony doerr, author of today's velshi banned bookclub feature, "all the light we cannot see". catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m.-- 10:00 a.m. until noon eastern. eastern. and katie phang letter from telemundo studios in miami florida and here's the week that was. three taylor swift concert is canceled