that does it for us. we will see you next saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern. but there's a lot more ahead on msnbc today. do not go anywhere. michael steele is in for jen psaki were he will bring her interview with nancy pelosi at noon on inside with jen psaki. buffers, velshi is up next with one of the greatest senators out there, bernie sanders, my former boss. lots to talk about, ali. i know senator sanders has a lot to say. >> and i'm going to and into the idea of all the criticism that is coming from donald trump about tim walz and kamala harris, about radical and this and that. most developed countries have the policies that tim walz has put into place in minnesota and kamala harris has put in them.

they are conservative policies. universal health care is led by conservative governments in a lot of places in europe. the thought of something that is more efficient, cost less money and gives that are outcomes. i will have the conversation about you can just call everything radical. >> i know senator sanders feel strongly about universal health care and policies for working people. i will be watching it. >> by the way, the story of the weekend is still celine dion's son being used, the theme from the sinking of the titanic being used at a trump rally. do what you wish with that. >> not approved. >> have a good afternoon and michael, i will see what noon. and velshi starts now. good morning, to sunday august 11th, 80 days until election day and kamala harris and tim walz have wrapped up

their first tour of swing states as the democratic party's official nominees for president and vice president and it was a tour for history books. according to the campaign, more than 12,000 people packed into an arena in las vegas last night to hear from the democratic nominee and her running made. that is just the number of people actually able to get into the raleigh. about 4000 other people were turned away after local law enforcement closed up the venue early because people were getting sick while waiting in line outside in the 109 degree heat. nevada was the fifth and final stop of harris and walz 's first set of campaign rawls together. since she chose walz five days ago, a total of more than 60,000 supporters have attended their rallies across five of the six most important swing states this election cycle. the pair have parted ways for the time being, walz is back in minnesota and harris will join nancy pelosi in in san

francisco today for a major fundraiser that is poised to add another $12 million to her campaign coffers. the launch of the harris/walz ticket has been a tremendous success, lifting many democratic spirits ahead of the national convention in chicago next week. harris' large and enthusiastic rallies have really irked one person in particular, donald trump, who is desperate to stop her rapid rise in the presidential race. the better part of the last month he's been trying and failing to employ an effective strategy to blunt the momentum. if you paid any attention to his social media where public remarks lately, you can see him testing different tactics and attack lines and nicknames for harris. recently trump and his allies latched onto a new approach, depicting harris and walz adds two extreme to lead the country. they call them dangerously liberal. trump even referred to the pair as comrade harris and comrade walz insinuating they have

communist ties. untruths social yesterday he wrote in all capitals, harris is a radical left lunatic. the attacks have ramped up over the last week after walz joined the democratic ticket. it is less of a direct witticism of harris' record and more of an effort to tie her to progressive policies walz has championed and signed into law in minnesota. after democrats captured control of the governorship and both chambers of the legislature after the 2022 elections, lawmakers proceeded to enact an ambitious set of bills that sought to help families and workers and slow the effects of climate change. some of the policies, pardon me, the democrats passed as part of the set of bills included free meals to students, free college at some of the state's public universities for students who come from families with an income of under $80,000, paid sick leave, paid family

leave, and paid medical leave. a child tax credit, one of the largest in the country, set of policies to shift the state away from fossil fuels and also took action to minnesota establish a public option in the future to allow all residents are to buy into the state health insurance program. minnesota also enacted some of the strongest protections for reproductive rights anywhere in the country. establish automatic voter registration, subsidize the cost of electric vehicles. none of these things are radical. many developed nations already enacted many of these same policies because they are sensible. they ease the burdens many families and working-class people experience on a daily basis. america is the one that is out of step with most developed countries, by not ready having any of these policies in place. some of these policies are popular across partisan lines. princes, a poll commissioned by the independent senator bernie sanders of vermont and released by data for progress, found likely voters in six states, regardless of party affiliation, said they support

establishing the child tax credit. is senator sanders written in a recent op-ed for the guardian, campaigning on economic agenda that speaks to the needs of working families is a working formula for kamala harris and democrats. indeed the formula could give harris the victory that suites a democratic senate and house. and allows her to govern the best tradition of franklin roosevelt's new deal and joe biden's build back her program, end quote. joining me now is the independent senator from vermont, bernie sanders. he's chair of the labor and pensions committee, a member of the veterans affairs, budget and energy and natural resources committee. senator, thank you for being with us. i want to tackle this because you are somebody who fought for many of these policies. i don't think you care that people call you leftist and radical and communist and whatever the cases. but i think it is time to put it out there, that these, that is not true and you may be but

it isn't true of these policies, right? that they are mainstream policies in a lot of countries. >> let me tell you what drives me a little bit nuts. we have campaigns, where candidates go around attacking each other and the corporate media gets into the political gossip. we don't talk about what is happening to working families. we don't talk about sensible solutions, which as you indicate, already exist. in countries all over the world, in many ways we are the outlier. i am talking to you right now from burlington, vermont. 50 miles north of us is a country called canada. not a radical, communist country. somehow in canada, spending one half as much per capita on health care as we do, they manage to provide quality care, for every man, woman and child in this country. and meanwhile, the life expectancy is better than ours

is, their health care outcomes are better than ours. so the question on providing health care to all people, not a radical idea, something most americans support. we did a poll come as you indicate, and we know that in america today, we have a lot of senior citizens struggling. in fact have seniors, half of seniors in america are trying to get by on $30,000 or less. overwhelming, 70% plus support for expanding medicare to cover dental, hearing and vision, including a stronger majority of republicans. expanding social security benefits, by $400, by lifting the cap, which now exists so the wealthy pay more into the social security trust fund, supported by 70% of the american people. demanding the wealthy start paying and large corporations pay their fair share of taxes, supported by 70% of the american people. raising minimum wage to a living wage, widely supported.

so on all of these issues, that trump calls far left, or communist, i don't know, maybe we are a far left country, i don't know. but these are common sense issues that working class family support. >> let me make the argument some of these things are conservative. if you're going to pay half as much for health care and get better outcomes, i mean, that is pro-money, pro-business, pro- everybody. we pay less for more outcome and that is what we are talking about in and all of these cases. >> don't get me going on health care. this will go on for a few hours but the insanity of not having enough doctors, not having enough nurses, not having enough dentist, not having enough pharmacists in the richest country of the world and having a system designed to make huge profits for the insurance companies and drug companies. that to me is pretty crazy stuff. if trump wants to attack kamala harris and tim walz because they believe health care is a

human right, go for it, donald trump. every time you open your mouth on the issue you are going to lose more and more support in america. >> we have seen, throughout the selection and basically through a lot of elections, no matter what you think about democracy and these other things, the economy tends to be a leading issue. there are two ways to approach this. you can talk about what the biden/harris administration has on the economy but a lot of the stuff, though interesting, is long-term. the senate -- semiconductors and in the structure, the concept of here's what i'm going to do for you, sort of like tim walz has done in minnesota, we are going to do things nationally. do you think there's a way to make that a winning formula in the swing states, that you've been talking about? >> absolutely. i think two things. i think what harris and wolf have got to do, is talk with pride about what president biden has accomplished and vice president has accomplished.

they are really important accomplishments. second of all we got to go back to 1936. franklin delano roosevelt, and acknowledge the reality. be honest about it. that in america today we have more income and wealth inequality than we have ever had previous in this country. three people on top owning more wealth than the bottom half of american society. acknowledge we have -- acknowledge the reality that we have a tax system skewed to benefit the very, very rich. acknowledge the reality that we have in washington and almost i'm ashamed to admit this, $7.25 an hour federal minimum wage, when we need a living wage. acknowledge those realities and say, when we get into office, and give us a democratic senate, give us a democratic house, we are going to take on powerful, corporate interests and pass legislation, which benefits working families. >> i've got to pull out my

catheter. $7.25, let's assume you are lucky enough to work 40 hours a week, that is $290 a week multiplied 52 weeks, 15,000 to $15,080 is what dollars 25 gets you. i invite anybody to live off that. >> and let me just say this. i know republican party is trying to change their views. they are now the party of the working class, that is total nonsense. i brought up the minimum wage, it was too low, i had to do it. $15 an hour. i could go higher than that. how many republicans supported that? zero. how many republicans on my committee would make it easier for workers to join unions, zero. so these guys will say as they always have, with the billionaire class. >> we want to take a quick back and we will come back. senator bernie sanders of vermont. (woman) ugh. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon.

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for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live . what they have done for me, my son, my family-- i'm sorry, yeah. life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer. call or go online and help save another lives of children like brayden. now, i'm 11 years old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain. and they saw something in my throat. it's thyroid cancer. it was heartbreaking to find out that he has cancer again. but we knew who we had behind us. it just gives me hope. you can make a difference. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month. and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. without st. jude or its donors,

we would have been in a bad place. these kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world. finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. help st. jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo]

i'm back with independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. i want to latch onto something you talked about a few minutes ago, and that is that we have remarkable inequality. you can use a million measures to prove this, one of them that people like is the fact the average ceo makes, the latest number is 190 times with the average worker makes. >> 350 times. >> 350, all right. here's the problem, how do you cause people who are buying into this idea that the economy is poor and they would like to vote for donald trump, with the reality that the economy is actually pretty good. infected is very good, it is just woefully unequal. part of that is wages but part of that is all of these things like health care, like family leave, like child tax credits, there are ways to fix and unequal economy, that would give us all more of the spoils of it. >> absolutely. just one example.

i worked hard on the former chairman of the budget community, worked with the president, the vice president in the early days of the administration, on the american rescue plan. and that was the midst of the terrible covid pandemic, the economy was collapsing, 3000 people a day were dying and in the midst of a $1.9 trillion bill, what we did is we provided a $300 a month refundable tax credit to working-class families, per child. that is what we did. unfortunately it was temporary. but what it did, in a short period of time, unbelievably, one small provision in a larger bill, reduced childhood poverty in america by over 40%. over 40%. now if, and it is not going to happen tomorrow because we have to be clear, we live in an economy and political system, in which the people on top have

enormous power, enormous number of lobbyists, massive campaign contributions to a large degree they control the political system and it ain't going to be easy but i want people to think, what would it mean in america if we did nothing more than the canadians did and we said, health care is a human right, you get sick and end up in the hospital, guess what, there is no bill. you are not going to go bankrupt, you are not going to deplete financial resources. you can go to the doctor when your kid is sick, when your parents are sick. don't worry about the bill. do you know what that would mean to this country? people all over america would say oh my god, i can breathe easily. health care is a right and canadians do it. one half as much as we spent. think about it. >> the automakers wanted but plans in canada, tech companies put their offices in vancouver for that reason because it is not just for the worker, it is good for everybody. everybody wants to get more for less money.

>> look, the bottom line right now, in my view, i speak only for myself, is we have been moving in recent years toward an oligarchic form of society, where people on top are doing phenomenally well, 60% of working people are living paycheck to paycheck. and what we are going to do, and i hope very much that harris and walz does is be prepared to take on big money interests and say, we need an economy, we need a political system which works for all of us and not just people on top and among other things, what that means, is you've got to get rid of the disastrous citizens united, supreme court decisions, which says the billionaires, hey, you can put hundreds of millions of dollars into super pacs and buy elections. what does it say about american democracy went elon musk is now putting $45 million a month

into a super pac for donald trump. is that really what american democracy is about? the bottom line is, biden and harris have done some very good things in the last 3 1/2 years. but we have a lot more to do, and our goal is to rally the american people, to give them hope, give them an agenda that speaks to their needs and not just the wealthy campaigns. >> you are talking to people and commission polls. you said to me that you are going to do everything to get the harris and walz ticket elected. how is it different from an endorsement? are you just basically endorsing the harris/walz ticket? >> not much different at all. i'm waiting, want to see the -- by the way, my understanding is, that the vice president will be coming out with an economic agenda next week. i look forward to seeing it. look, i have been to minnesota. i have been new hampshire, i've

been to maine, i have been to wisconsin. i'm doing everything i can to make sure donald trump is defeated, that kamala harris becomes our next president. but i just want to see, i would love to see a strong economic agenda that makes it crystal clear that she's going to stand with working families and take on the big money interests. >> good to talk to you as always, thank you for joining us. the independent senator bernie sanders of myrrh brought -- of vermont, have a good day. the supreme court session was one of the most impactful in recent memory with huge rulings that have major implications and we are starting to see the effects in real time. fx, not on society, on you and on your life. life. (vo) they're back! verizon small business days are here. august 5th to the 11th. get a free tech check. and special offers. like a free 5g phone, when you switch. don't miss out. get started today. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan.

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2025, which is the extremist blueprint for a second term. that is because we often tend to believe autocracy couldn't happen in america, country known only democracy for almost 250 years, and in perfect know that democracy has sometimes been. we take this order and protections for granted because they've been here and threatened. it is hard to imagine what an authoritarian society might've -- might look like. harder still to see the practical implications of such a shift at such an early stage. but when historians look back on this period, 25 or 50 years from now, they may well point to conservative courtrooms, particularly the u.s. supreme court, with conservative super majority secured by trumps three appointees, and to the extremist fifth circuit court of appeals, as the first major battlegrounds in the maga movement assault on democracy. from overturning the right to abortion and drastically expanding presidential powers to dismantling the administered estate, these are all clear signs of encroaching authoritarianism.

killed by right-wing justices, sitting on the high court. in late june the supreme court overturned the chevron doctrine, a 40-year-old principle that directed courts to defer to federal agencies, staffed by experts, known as the administered estate. on manners where the law is vague or unclear, because that is how laws work, they don't address everything that can come up. the court decision effectively gutted the authority of these agencies to set the standards and policies needed to administer various laws that congress has delegated to those agencies. the ruling severely undermines these agencies ability to provide essential services and protections to americans, such as ensuring clean air and water, regulating safety of prescription medications, making public education accessible to all. the practical effect of this decision are already beginning to unfold less than two months after it was handed down. in may, the u.s. department of

education found that the carroll independent school district in southlake, texas had violated the civil rights of four students. the finding came three years after the naacp filed federal complaints on behalf of the students who had said the school officials failed to protect them from harassment. the students said they were routinely subject to racist and homophobic slurs during their years as students at southlake, the education department civil rights enforcement arm gave the school district 90 days to come up with steps it would take to address the problem, identified in the students' complaint. fast forward to this week. southlake school officials informed federal authorities that they would not cooperate with the department of education, citing the supreme court decision to overturn the chevron doctrine, referencing that case, southlake officials wrote quote, the ability of the department of education's civil rights to bring enforcement actions, based on interpretations is legally speculative, if it remains at

all. the deal we can take these actions against us according to the supreme court, so we are not going to cooperate. this may be an early sign of the dangerous ripple effects of the supreme court recent decisions and a glimpse into what publicans really mean when they talk about dismantling the administrative state. with more on this i want to introduce nbc's reporter mike hicks about, who's been following the story. he also cohosts the podcast, southlake and grapevine, author of the book, they came for the schools, one towns fight over race and identity and the new war for america's classrooms. thank you for being with us. what a perfect sample, we have been talking for a few years now about southlake and what seems to be a local and localized problem, and now we have the intersection of a very specific problem in in southlake, texas, and the response to a civil rights ruling that many people thought was an abstraction.

>> that's right, and southlake is one of the school districts where the local community in 2021 revolted against what they were calling then critical race theory and so the school board is now completely controlled by far right conservatives, who are saying that we aren't going to do diversity, equity and inclusion training, racism is not a problem in this town. and so in this case, now that the department of education, the federal agency that can step in, and ensure that students civil rights are not being violated, now that they have, and said we have found violations, the school board is taking a hard-line stance and pointing to supreme court decisions at chevron, that chevron deference decision, as reasons why the education department actually doesn't maybe have authority to protect the students in this way. >> it is kind of daring because

i would have assumed the way this plays out, is that it would get to a court and a court would actually say, according to the supreme court, the department of education, you can't enforce a regulation or interpret it. the idea that southlake itself, the school and the district itself said, we're not going to bother, according to the supreme court, you don't have the authority to make us these changes, so too bad for you. >> while the school board has partnered with the alliance defending freedom, which is a far right christian -- >> a great name, alliance defending freedom, want to sign up right now. >> wright, part of the argument they've been making is the education department doesn't have authority to interpret foundational civil rights laws.'s for example the biden administration has said, civil- rights protections prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex, also provides protections against students on the basis of gender identity and sexual orientation.

so the federal school district with the alliance defending freedom, and many other states, have filed lawsuits against the education department saying, you can't do this. and it applies directly to these four cases, two of the cases involve students who were bullied on the basis of their sexual orientation and gender identity and the carroll school district is saying, those protections don't exist in black and white in federal law and the education department, because of what happened with the chevron decision, don't have the authority to interpret the law to protect those students. >> the point of course is that laws are passed in a way that makes them unable to anticipate every eventuality, which is why the bureaucracy exists and experts staff it and things like the department of education exist, because things move fast and they are basically charged with the ability to interpret those things. it could always be sued by the

way, before the chevron doctrine was taken down, you could sue and say that they are in over their skis but now basically the court has said, you don't get first dibs at interpreting laws, which is tricky because not every day shower loss would be 10 times as long if you had to imagine what every eventuality would be. >> and i would also add, the argument that the carroll school district is making in this case is in some ways a preview of what the trump administration, a second administration is promising. whether you are looking at project 2025 are looking at what donald trump has said himself, both have talked about abolishing the federal education department. project 2025 marks spin explicitly about ending the education department's ability to enforce the rights laws through administrative means, which is what they are doing in this case and again, donald trump talked about ending the education department and returning governance of schools entirely to the states.

and when you drill down to the actual cases that we are talking about, there is a case i want to highlight were 16- year-old student named tamia was relentlessly bullied on social media by boys in her class over her gender identity. they said she had a mental illness, said she wanted to punch global or -- liberals like her. and the school district in southlake investigated and determined it wasn't doesn't match our definition of bullying. the principal said the boys were debating politics and so when she went to the federal government to say, i have a right to equal access to education and not be bullied in my school setting, that is what they are investigating, that is what they are coming in at the federal level to -- this is a federal civil rights matter and we are -- you are going to take action and the school district is saying we handled it right and in fact you don't have the authority to tell us what to do. brock -- >> thank you for your time.

project 2025 chapter 11 is on the department of education. they write a novel thought about it. thank you very much. nbc news senior investigative reporter and cohost of the podcast southlake and grapevine. our latest installment of project 2025 brings us to the chapter on the american family. you probably won't be surprised by the fact that the playbook for the second term favors a specific type of family. a man married to a woman with biological children. but the way the plan targets all other types of families is shocking. shocking. (vo) you've got your sunday obsession and we got you now with verizon, get nfl sunday ticket from youtube tv on us... and a great deal on galaxy z fold6... for a total value of twelve hundred and fifty dollars. only on verizon. (jalen hurts) see you sunday!

hi, i'm michael, i've lost 62 pounds on golo and i have kept it off. most of the weight that i gained was strictly in my belly which is a sign of insulin resistance.

but since golo, that weight has completely gone away, as you can tell. thanks to golo and release, i've got my life and my health back. [instructor] hold it! hold it! hard time holding it? well always discreet absorbs up to a cup full. with up to zero wet feel and odor. so i'm not just dry, i'm jump squats level dry. we've got you, always. always discreet. at the center of next week's banned book club features, the question that many of us have considered is is the blood that makes her family her family? far from the tree by robin benway explores the question

through three teenage siblings adopted separately into different families are left in the foster care system. it grapples with identity, legacy and the realities of the adoption and foster care systems in this country. and of course, family dynamics. that is last -- next week on the velshi banned bookclub. you can email with questions for the author, robin benway and your thoughts on that question of what really makes family, family. first, we promise to continue talking about project 2025 every single day on this show. we have read the whole thing and we are committed to making sure that you know what it says. today's installment of inside project 2025, we begin with the threat/promise from the blueprint for a second trump term. quote, the dobbs decision is just the beginning, end quote. the end of abortion rights in america forced the criminalization of miscarriage management, that is only the beginning of the conservative

plan for america. what comes next, including plans that target families, is chilling. ♪ (woman) ugh. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get the new galaxy s24 on us. only on verizon. when did i call leaffilter? when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. it's the easiest call you can make. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com.

my name is brayden. i was five years old when i came to st. jude. i'll try and shorten down the story. so i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away. my mom, she was just crying. what they said, your son has brain cancer. it was your worst fear coming to life. watching your child grow up is the dream of every parent. you can join the battle to save the lives of kids like brayden, by supporting st. jude children's research hospital . families never receive a bill from st. jude

for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live . what they have done for me, my son, my family-- i'm sorry, yeah. life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer. call or go online and help save another lives of children like brayden. now, i'm 11 years old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain. and they saw something in my throat. it's thyroid cancer. it was heartbreaking to find out that he has cancer again. but we knew who we had behind us. it just gives me hope. you can make a difference. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month. and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. without st. jude or its donors, we would have been in a bad place.

these kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world. finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. help st. jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo]

project 2025, the authoritarian blueprint for dismantling federal agencies in the next republican presidency has thoughts on what your private relationships should look like and who you should marry. in fact a christian nationalist vision of the family is a key centerpiece of the 922 page manual describing puzzles for the american family as central to the next conservative president's agenda. quote, every threat to family stability must be confronted. this resolved to color each of our policies, the dobbs decision is just the beginning. we must replace woke nonsense with a healthy vision starting

with the american family. according to project 2025, not all families are created equal. on page 451 it defines the right kind of family as being comprised of a married mother, father and their children. this, it claims is the quote, foundation of a well ordered nation and healthy society. promoting this biblical concept of family is cited as a top five goal for a revamped department of health and human services or hhs, which it criticizes for quote, having lost its way by promoting equity in and everything that we do. according to project 2025, efforts to promote diversity should be repealed and replaced with policies that support what it calls the formation of stable, married nuclear families, end quote. in other words, the authors of project 2025 believe that they, the government, should have the right to dictate what your family should look like. extending the arm of government into your home, into your bedroom. to enforce a christian nationalist worldview. consider this not just a policy preference, but a core function of governance is self.

so much for limited government. it should be noted traditional families, people married with children, no longer make up the majority of family compositions in the u.s. according to recent polling by the pew research center. the shift and family structures is due in part to more same-sex couples adopting children or starting their own families, reflecting diversity and evolving landscape of today's american society. that diversity according to the authors of project 2025, poses a danger to the quote, very moral foundations of our society, and cook vote. the document lays out several proposals for under -- undermining rights of the majority of these families who do not fit project 2025's definition of family. for instance, it wants the government to protect the right of businesses to discriminate against same-sex couples. assess the federal grants should be made to faith-based groups who refuse to recognize same-sex marriage, specifically groups that quote a firm

marriage is between not just any two adults, but between one man and one woman -- unrelated woman, and". while acknowledging this would violate respect of marriage act which banners -- bands this combination, the government should quote, protect faith- based grant recipients that maintain a biblically-based social science reinforced definition of marriage and family. i'm not making this up, this is actually in in the 922 page document. its policy proposals demonize children who are raised in a nontraditional households, it states project 2025 social science report that assess the outcomes for children's raisin homes aside from a heterosexual intact marriage, are clear. all other family forms involve higher levels of ability, financial stress or poverty, or poor behavioral psychological or educational outcomes.

federally funded family planning clinics would be required to actively promote quote, the importance of marriage which describes homes without a husband as being among the most dangerous places for a child to be. among the most dangerous places for a child to be. offensive and bigoted terminology is passed off throughout its pages including urging the next health and human services secretary to put an end to quote, woke transgender activism. one alarming proposal is to criminalize transgender identity as pornography. this proposal takes its cue from russia's so- called gay propaganda bill that bans forms of what it refers to as lgbtq propaganda and prohibits russians from promoting same-sex relationships. similarly project 2025 considers the propagation of transgender ideology, to be pornography.

it mirrors similar rhetoric used by extremist groups such as mom's for liberty to broadly oppose drag queen reading hours and keep lgbtq less books out of libraries. just five pages into the project 2025 or what the document states quote, the people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned, educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuddered. so much for small government. it also classifies gender reassignment surgery as a form of child abuse. to confront these what it calls threats to straight, heterosexual couples, project 2025 proposes economic incentives for traditional nuclear families, advocating for policymakers to quote, use government power -- use government power, including through the tax code, to restore the american family. by redirecting federal funding

to support his biblical view of what it calls it biblical view of family, same-sex couples or other family structures would be denied equal benefits given to straight, heterosexual couples. and the timeline for implementing this is as soon as trump takes office, which the document assumes is a given. conservatives have just two years it writes and one shot to get this right. the time is running short if we fail, the fight for the very idea of america, maybe lost. the next conservative president will enter office january 20th, 2025 with a simple choice, greatness, or failure. this very idea of america seems to exude the vast majority of american family -- exclude the vast majority of american families today, most of whom do not fit project 2025's christian nationalist mold. sti and special offers. like a free 5g phone, when you switch.

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before the break i told you about project 2025's alarming plans for american families that don't confirm to conservative biblical vision. i'm joined by melissa murray, professor of law at nyu and msnbc legal analyst, cohost of the scrutiny podcast and leading expert in family law, which is not something we often talk about on the show. we talked about a lot of things generally but you know about this. it is wild reading. project 2025, wild on a lot of

levels but the part about family, it is really wild reading. it makes no bones about what it believes a family should be and we're talking about gay families and transgender kids. forget about that, it doesn't even think single parenting is legitimate. >> that is exactly right and we been covering project 2025 on the podcast, ali and we are calling it disaster piece theatre. not only is it terrible for same-sex families that is terrible for any family that doesn't fit the breadwinner husband depended family mold. that is most families these days. they are not hiding it, this has been the playbook for some time, to advocate a return to more quote unquote traditional family, not a family with working mothers, not a family headed by a single working mother but headed by a breadwinner father. it is -- if you understand my reference, why am wearing red

today and it will be a disaster for american women. and that is worth emphasizing. it is pro family but the family they will want is one where the woman is homebound, raising children and it is not the model most american families comport with these days. when you need two working families to survive. >> talk to me about, it is 100 day -- 180 day implementation but some will take longer because what it wants to do is in an actual conflict with laws that are on the books, some of which have been adjudicated or evaluated by the supreme court already. one never knows what the supreme court will do in the future but there are people who reasonably think this is nonsense because my gay marriage is protected under law, certain things are protected under law. tell me how that works, how does project 2025 deal with proposing things that are against the law. >> that is a great question and we have lots of protections. for example the case a few years ago said that gender

identity, sexual orientation as a protected category for purposes of title vii, the federal antidiscrimination law that deals with pregnant workplaces. what project 2025 does and says, it will to play various aspects of the federal government, the executive branch, department of labor, department of justice to interpret the decision any different way to limit the consideration of certain categories and characteristics in the different aspects of that are hiring. that is one way they can limit it. another way which they discuss this is to deploy various aspects of the department of justice to promote and prosecute what they call this combination against traditional family life. so to prosecute woke nests as it were. all this can be done by having control of the executive branch. you don't need congress or the courts, you need a president with new department -- attorney general and department of justice they are willing to to

play for this purpose. >> is it connected to the aims of diminishing the administrative state and the chevron doctrine, the idea that you have more power, controlled by the president, and executive branch so you can do these things more easily. >> certainly and definitely connects with what you talked about on the show before, elimination of career professionals with expertise in favor of party loyalists. that is part of it but isolating all of these executive branch with the assumption the entire executive branch, all agencies are operatives of the president as opposed to independent entities, that is core to all of this. >> let's talk about, want to ask about one thing, that is the tax code. they are talking about preferential tax treatment to what they think that the local family is. >> you had a great guest on yesterday, my colleague at georgetown who is fantastic. she has written the book about this. there's already so much in the tax code that favors the traditional family.

project 2025 proposes to blow this up exponentially. to make it much harder. we have very limited protections in terms of a social safety net for american families . some of the things we have our tax incentives for families. but what project 2025 proposes to do, is to make these available only to certain kinds of families and eliminate all other kinds of subsidies, limited subsidies we have for american families generally. that means that most of the work of family care will fall to the family itself and more particularly, usually to women in heterosexual families. and again, they are not even thinking about same-sex families or nontraditional families. those don't exist for these purposes. >> it is always great to see you. melissa murray is professor of law at nyu and cohost of the strict scrutiny podcast. coming up on another hour of velshi, we takes of the first week of the full democratic ticket lodge and why donald trump can't land a line of attack or a nickname for kamala harris or tim walz. i will sit down with