that does it for me today. we will be back with you tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern and you can catch us every saturday and sunday on the weekend. but for now, stay where you are because there is so much news coming up on msnbc. tonight on this new our,

trump and his republican allies may say they don't have anything to do with this but there are videos that say otherwise. we have the receipts and jd vance is on the defense and we know he is connected to the heritage foundation president kevin roberts so why is he shelving a book they both worked on together. and the good and bad and worst celebrity endorsements. are they effective, or is it about pandering. we have a lot to talk about. >> project 2025 has undergone a rather striking transformation in recent weeks evolving from sinister far right playbook to a bogeyman but the maga movement, what they thought was a galvanizing force is turning out to be an enormously successful repellent and in the new piece mother jones sums it

up saying essentially the heritage foundation took all of the unlikable goals of the maga movement and put them in one place and gave them an ominous title. maga republicans are watching that desperately and he falsely said he doesn't know anything about project 25 -- 2025. we know that isn't true. the washington post reported this week that back in 2022 trump took a 45 minute private flight with kevin roberts, the president of the heritage foundation, the far right group behind this. they flew together on a jet to a heritage foundation conference where he delivered the keynote address saying this. >> right now in these next few years we have the biggest opportunity for the conservative movement since heritage was founded and bigger than 1980 and the 1984 and

bigger than 1994 and bigger than ever before and much bigger than 2016, one of the great days and years in the history of our country. i hope you all agree. now is the time to build a new american consensus. >> i that kevin roberts is your man but if that weren't already enough, to make matters worse a new report came out by propublica is that it gave access to training videos intended for future republican appointees and there was 14 hours of content. the video showcased how project 2025 is making good on its promise to train potential administration officials how to battle against the deep state bureaucracy and according to their reporting, the majority of speakers in these videos, 29 of the 36 people on camera they

worked for trump in some capacity and here is just a taste of what the videos are pushing for. watch. >> climate change allegedly is everywhere. if the american people elect a conservative president, his administration will have to eradicate climate change references from everywhere. and you can expect that equity and all of that with the executive orders. this will require a very detailed plan to execute the eradication of the dictates in the equity order. >> if the next president doesn't execute a course correction there may never be another chance. so if you are not on board with helping implement a dramatic correction because you are

afraid it will damage your employment prospects, i it and that is a real danger and a real thing. please do us a favor and sit this out. >> i know what you are thinking. that wasn't a saturday night live skit and it was real these videos layout what we have known for a long time to be there extreme agenda and the people behind it are committed to making this the playbook for all future republican administrations on every level, state, local and federal. but there is no denying that the approach is alienating voters and proving to be a massive thorn in trump's side and in that sense project 2025 has done what democrats tried to do for years tie him to the unpopular policies of the coalition from the christian nationalists trying to ban abortion and ivf to give the megarich giving themselves more tax breaks and congratulations and i love to say you played

yourself. i am happy to have with us the reporter for propublica who wrote that incredible piece and also with me two of my favorites daniel moody host of a daily podcast and cohost of the new abnormal podcast as well as a political analyst host of the fast politics podcast and special correspondent for vanity fair and i should say that in response to your story trump's campaign again denied involvement but when it comes to these training videos that you have access to, it is hard to deny the connection there. what other messages and themes did you come across as he watched? i can't imagine that was the juiciest stuff you aired. >> it is definitely some of the juiciest stuff in your team deserves some credit and i would note as well that the

trump reelect campaign spokeswoman who sent us that statement saying they have nothing to do with this 2025 is in these 2025 videos so if you want a connection between the two it doesn't get more clear than that. big take away policy wise and personnel wise from these videos and these are a centerpiece of project 2025 and the big plan for the next republican president is to go after anything related to racial equity, diversity, equality and these are big steps that the democratic party has been making in the biden ministration is willing to train thousands of people on these policies in the playbook and the 900 page policy playbook that it put out that if a republican gets elected president, these employees can put that agenda into place and not starting on day 100 or not

starting sometime at the first of the year but to start as this itself said on day one of this next administration. >> in the last hour we talked about the notion of incompetence versus malice and i do wonder if these attempts to eliminate references to climate change and strategically it does seem like it is really backfiring on conservatives. as sort of -- or are we, on the left, misinterpreting how this is actually landing, or is this bad strategy? >> no. it is good strategy on their part because it is unpopular. if they back away from project 2025 as we see donald trump do and stephen miller on this network say he had nothing to do with it and it is a dead document, it will go away. the fact is we know you don't put together this and say we tuck it away.

it is unpopular. we do know they are backing away from climate change and backing away from abortion at least donald trump is because again it is unpopular. but you put three of those supreme court justices on the bench. and you have decided to put together an entire apparatus and talking about like a linkedin of maga is what they put together. 20,000 people who are ready to got our agencies from the inside out. now that people are aware of this, this pdf they put on a website, now they want to back away, but it is too late with pandora already out-of-the-box. >> one of the things we talked about before is the defeat of donald trump and it doesn't equate to that but how can you talk about that to our audiences about how important it is that they understand that this is something that is essentially setting the course for conservative ideology and candidates on all levels for at least 2 to 3 decades.

>> trump -- the republican party is now trump. as opposed to 2016 when you had him as an outlier. now the party has given itself up to him. a lot of these ideas -- remember, trump's name is mentioned more than 300 times in the document and written by some of his cabinet secretaries and people who worked in his administration at these bold ideas like firing most all of the federal workforce and getting rid of the national weather service. these things and making the doj an arm of the trump administration, that isn't going away and this is what republicans want to do and it's an authoritarian vision. >> it feels very much so like the heritage foundation is married to donald trump but donald trump is single. i would like to know from your perspective, what is the

conversation within the heritage foundation about trying to reach back and say, no, we are realigned with donald trump and we are actually together together regardless of what he is telling you. >> based on all of the people i talked to in washington, people who are in the think tank industry or on the campaign, what is going on now is a sort of mutually understood separation in which the trump campaign realizes in stark ways that project 2025 has proved deeply unpopular and they need to distance themselves from it and the heritage foundation and its president know they have to go along with them and their future as molly and others have said, they are part of this party wrapped around trump more

than any set of policies or ideologies, visions and so on and they know they have to go along with this in the moment they play along and say sure it's not donald trump but what are reporting shows is look further down the line for the kinds of people who would go into the next administration if it is a trump administration and they are the people in these videos and the people trained by heritage and the people steeped in this heritage foundation maga style conservatism and they could distance themselves but the moment donald trump wins, this is what his administration does, this game or notion that there is a separation and goes away the moment he wins. that is why the videos and policy documents and all of this stuff is so important despite what trump and his campaign may be saying. >> i do want to get your reaction. stephen miller sat with my colleague here on msnbc and this is how he responded to

questions around overlaps between the administration and project 2025. >> it has nothing to do with the past, present or future and resident trump and president trump alone will make its own policies. my organization isn't on the board of project 2025 and i have never advised or consulted it. >> i will finish the question and give you time to answer it but in fairness to the photograph which shows you working with heritage in the book is in the room, what do you say to people who see that history and think there was a link and now it is being walked away from because of the controversy of those plans? >> i mean, it doesn't necessarily mean they are in cahoots, of course. and also beachfront pretty in idaho i would like to sell you. but what do you think? >> here is what i say. we don't do ourselves a service by platforming white

supremacists. stephen miller is a white supremacist. we know that. first, that being the case, we know that they are liars. how many times do we have to listen to these people lied or faces? project 2025. tell me what is donald trump's agenda because they didn't roll it out at that convention and they rolled out hulk hogan and wwe people and washed out rock stars but no plan. so if this document isn't a plan, tell me what it is. when he is asked real questions about the abortion drug which he doesn't know how to spell or what it is, he doesn't provide information or any follow-up questions. journalists need to be asking donald trump at his home in mar lago what is the plan and if it isn't project 2025, tell us what it is because we do know 100% that donald trump is in line with these people and they are in line with him and trying to play this right now like it

is an episode of scooby doo. >> this panel is so good that we will bring them back. danielle and molly are staying with me but right after the break i will speak with the congressman about the ongoing attacks that are occurring against governor walz. look at that! swiffer wetjet. can you do this? as early as your 40s you may lose muscle and strength. protein supports muscle health. ensure max protein has a 30 gram blend of high quality protein to feed muscles for up to seven hours. so take the challenge. ensure, nutrition for strength and energy. ok limu! you set it, and as i spike it, i'll tell them how liberty mutual customizes car insurance, so they only pay for what they need. got it? [squawks] did you get that? only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪ ♪liberty, liberty.♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi.

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during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus 0% interest for 24 months. shop now at a sleep number store near you. welcome back. as we talked about before the break, donald trump in the republican party are clearly panicked about the backlash of project 2025 and have every right to be because it will get worse. according to rolling stone, democrats from across the harris campaign and dnc another messaging operations are planning to smother trump, jd vance and republican candidates with their own vision for the country well into november for the election. this is a strategy that reportedly includes spending significant time and money on targeted advertising and other messaging to fundraising

blitzes and trying to solidify project 2025 into the public consciousness. my next guest has been sounding the alarm on project 2025 for a while and welcome this democratic congressman from massachusetts who joins me. are you surprised that this has caught on in such a big way with voters? what are the democrats planning to do in order to capitalize on this recognition that it now has. >> i am not surprised. the ideas are unpopular and they are closely intertwined with donald trump himself and his campaign and you have done a good job this evening expositor for the viewers. what we will do about it is have a clear and sharp contrast between kamala harris talking about our future and donald trump talking about his past and americans are sick of him

and sick of eight years of him bellyaching and contriving grievances to complain about and have a more positive vision of the future so we will talk about more freedom and lower costs while they try to create some distance between ideas like cutting head start in politicizing social security and medicare. >> we have to push back and ask. we have done a lot to call attention to project 2025 which is fantastic. a lot of what i hear and have heard seems reactionary. when we get an affirmative plan that mirrors the lefts version of project 2025 that lays out an agenda both at the federal and state level that progresses and people on the left can get behind and push on their own and in their own circles? >> kamala harris has been at the top of the ticket for a few weeks and has been introducing herself to voters in the battleground states and one thing i will be pushing for the democrats to put front and center is the cost of housing. if you look across the economy

american say the cost of living is the number one issue and here it is the number one issue . and renter mortgages is 30% or 40 or 50% share of wallets and suffocating our economy. democrats said we should build a housing and do that affordably to make sure that no burden is there and everybody can build and transfer well. >> one thing that democrats have done a lot of and we heard it from the minority leader jeffries and others is put the blame on congress and their inaction this term on republicans to say this is been republican leadership but the american people are suffering with respect to that. if donald trump is successful and if republicans do retain control of the house, what is the strategy that democrats are currently developing? is there a strategy to address the next round of congress or

the next term in office? the american people can't just sit and wait while democrats say while republicans are in charge we can do anything. >> first and foremost it will be fighting to protect the constitution. we saw donald trump in january 2021 try to overthrow the united states government and we heard him say now that he won't accept the results of the election once again and we expect he will steal this election if and when he loses and we have to protect the constitution as we did on january 6 and without the rule of law or system of government, we can't provide for the standard of living and other things he wants to achieve. >> let's talk about the attacks we have seen from the vice presidential candidate jd vance on his running mate tim walz and vance accused tim walz of stolen valor and he is trying to back away now and say he

never said it and let's hear what he has to say. >> do you honor his service? >> of course. i have never criticized what he did when he was in the military and i criticized his retirement decision. >> as a veteran yourself, what is your reaction to these critiques and generally speaking republicans who have particularly at the highest level with respect to donald trump not been as respectful to our veterans as some think they should be? >> it is a sign of desperation because donald trump is scared now because he can see that he is on a glide path to lose the selection and frustrated because he chose jd vance to be his vice presidential nominee and i think the worst one since aaron berger i would say. when he gets scared, donald trump turns to insults and in particular we know he has a track record of attacking the veterans and he called dead

veterans losers and suckers and he will try to deny that but they heard him say that and they have since confirmed it on the record and he said john mccain wasn't a war hero. donald trump has no respect for veterans so now attacking tim walz who served honorably for 24 years and four years past his retirement when he made the hard decision to run for congress as opposed to staying with his unit so he could serve better which she did when he was in congress and this is part of his playbook for donald trump. really, they are trying to swift boat tim walz and we won't let them do it. when they punch we will punch back. >> what we are hearing from the right could somehow take root particularly among veterans and people engaged around support of the armed service community and ultimately play to the advantage of what the trump

campaign is seeking to do. >> there is concern. there should be concern and we saw this in 2004 and it didn't take root against john kerry and he had been wounded multiple times in vietnam. he was really seriously politically damaged and they came up with this entire smear campaign called swift boat veterans for truth and they are doing it again and trump's co- campaign manager ran the swift boat campaign in 2004 so it's not just the same playbook but the same man. we won't allow that to happen in this election. we will hit back hard because donald trump had five vietnam deferments and had bone spurs and he has the soul of a coward is the family of one deceased army captain said and we will hit him every time he tries to search the record of an honorable veteran like tim walz. >> thank you so much.

from swift boat to swifties. coming up, celebrity endorsements, do they help or hurt a political movement? we'll have more from our panel after the break. stay tuned.

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matt walsh recently posted advice from his maga republican cohorts. " kamala harris has all of the big name entertainers on her side. all of them. please don't try to counter this by parading around washed up or obscure entertainers that nobody cares about and it makes us look bad and irrelevant." yes it was a rare moment of self-awareness from the right and he does have a point. there is a stark difference between kamala harris and celebrity endorsements and harris has a bunch of a listers backing her like charlie and he said that and beyonce allowed

harris to use her song at her campaign events or megan thee stallion who performed at a rally in atlanta last month and not to mention an endorsement from george clooney. as for trump's big a-list backers, a-list? he has somebody and he is kid rock. he has hulk hogan and both of them were at the republican national convention. and also he is being back by superman actor dean cain and hercules actor kevin sorbo and dennis quaid of parent trap same. i can't speak from anybody else but i come from a place called 2024. there we were calling all of those dudes washed. the big question is what is it worth?'s how much of a difference can these endorsements make in a presidential election regardless of how popular or relevant a person may be

elsewhere? and they said if you are one of the most famous influential women in the world, you may be able to sway the presidential election a little and if not the effect may be a bit more limited and am not talking about taylor swift. we will talk about her in a minute. i am talking about oprah, who back in 2007 endorsed barack obama. >> for the very first time in my life, i feel compelled to stand up and to speak out for the man who i believe has a new vision for america. i am not here to tell you what to think. i am here to ask you to think. seriously. >> oprah winfrey is an example of an endorsement that made an impact and in 2013 the

northwestern university study found she increased turnout and financial contributions and responsible for 1 million additional votes for president obama and there is an important caveat and that was the democratic primary were voters chose from candidates with the same party affiliation rather than the general election, but what if we applied that logic to today? there is a buzz around a harris endorsement who did endorse biden back in 2020 and that speculation increased after a recent story featuring a silhouette of a figure in a pants suit was a wink and a nod that they believe at harris. don't forget that swifties for kim which launched -- kim -- kamala harris. now we have to wonder what influence an endorsement could have. back in 2018 they say that her post endorsing a tennessee

democratic senate candidate got 55,000 people registered to vote and since then the swifty same has grown but what if all of this star power is in a foolproof plan but maybe it is about leading voters where they are in this is to say that celebrities who aren't household names but still have influence in their own right and think about another star like youtube and tiktok like bryce hall and each of these had millions of subscribers. back in june trump made an appearance on that podcast. >> thank you, president. >> is this your mug shot? >> it is giving this and this

video has more than 6 million views and on the left there have been moments of content creators and even a post to get her on hot ones which is a wildly popular internet show where guests are interviewed while they eat progressively spicier chicken wings so what is worth more, and a list endorsement or a popular influencer or is it shameless pandering? i will get into that with my panel when we come back. stay tuned. stay tuned what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue.

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if you have ever wondered where the washed up leading men from the 90s have gone like hulk hogan, dennis quaid, dean cain and guys who at one point may have seemed untouchable and revered by men and desired by women but now are not, the answer is you can find them with the trump campaign. they are both back with me. molly, i want to talk to you about the taylor swift effect. i think there is a lot of excitement that is generated on the left from the potential of a swift endorsement and the swifties getting behind kamala harris and her campaign but what about the day after? what about november 6? what kind of engagement should we expect or hope for or look for or push for with respect to the people who receive these endorsements and go to the polls at the behest of the celebrities with future civic

engagement? >> i think the stakes for the selection are so high it is like do you want to have an election election. in my mind if they go to the polls and vote to keep democracy going, that is good enough for me. taylor swift did endorse biden last time. and beyonce has already been very much on board. these are women understand the stakes of the selection when it comes to reproductive rights or birth control, ivf. they are endorsing harris not just because she is a good candidate because they could be personally affected by some of these policies. >> one of the things that is a very nuanced conversation and in this community is this notion of particularly when you talk about the black vote, who do you put out to endorse you as a candidate? what does that say message wise? i have heard people who are

offended that megan thee stallion was on the stage and there were some people in the black community who felt like is this what you think of us and why can't we have somebody or somebody or someone who intellectually speaks to us and why is it athletes, entertainers or musicians who seem to be this and is it just a matter of you have to grab people where they are or meet people where they are?'s how do you fall on that scale of balancing?'s >> i think you meet people where you are and i don't see anything wrong with megan thee stallion on stage with vice president harris and it's not as if she is trying to beakers and say that is what black people like like donald trump has done. i think that we have all segments of population and there are some people who follow entertainers and musicians and athletes and follow their lead on a lot of

things. if you have somebody like steph curry who has endorsed vice president harris or if you have a charlie saying, lot -- kamala's brat and you have kerry washington just endorsing harris and ariana grande and this matters and it matters to a younger generation so if you want smart voices go to smart places but it's just to say this because people are on the news or on a basketball court that there is something wrong with that but everybody has a vested interest like molly said in preserving our democracy and rights and that doesn't just mean one part of the population see up to go and blast your message wide and far. >> i was talking about this delegation with folks like scott bayeux and dean cain and hulk hogan and like regarded as

the worst version of superman in some respects and it is very much fitting that these people would be in line with 45 but on a deeper level is there a connection between the type of machismo that all of those people in body and if you look at the dude pro contingent that welcome donald trump with open arms and that campaign that circles and his orbit and is there a connection? if so can you make that clear for viewers? >> i want to say one other thing about megan thee stallion and she's a champion of women's reproductive health and i have heard her give smart speeches. she is actually very tuned in politically and a real feminist in that tradition. she actually really does --

doesn't have a superficial view and understands the issues. this hyper masculinity is what we saw a lot of during the rnc and a lot of this very masculine culture. i think trump in order to win needs to grow the electorate. this is not doing that. this is his space. i think he thinks he could use this same thing that worked for him in 2016 and get these low- frequency voters out there. i don't think that refusing to grow the electorate is a smart electoral strategy. >> i do agree with you and i am glad that is something that you talked about and i wonder why the harris campaign didn't make more of an effort to publicize that when she did the rally in

atlanta. i do think it would have quieted some and even though you and i are aware of that i don't think anybody knows that. danielle does this campaign need to do more of that when they do invite people like megan thee stallion to endorse them and be on the same page with them? >> they can. they have their own large platform where what she said and you know that because you follow her and you have heard her speak and she uses this in a positive way so i think there are a lot of folks that do that but do i think they could provide a greater context of people's understanding of the political moment we are in and the existential crisis our democracy is in? absolutely. i think there are people who like their stuff at such a level and it is okay and we could leave it at that. >> let's leave it at that. thank you both for being here. coming up a preview of tonight's book banning documentary to be destroyed and

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we are back with breaking news from the pentagon. the defense minister informed tel aviv that he ordered the uss georgia, a guided missile submarine to the central command region and distributing of this posture throughout the middle east happening in light of escalating tensions between israel, iran and hezbollah. republicans have made their boldest move talking about what students can read. utah band 13 book statewide and it's the first time a state has required all of its schools to remove a list of titles including books by judy bloom and others. this comes after the gop state lawmakers passed a law in july one that mandates a book be

removed from all public schools in the state if at least three school districts condone it and it amounts to harmful, pornographic or otherwise indecent content. they have been tracking these for several years and for 2023 and 2020 for the reported a huge spike in more than 4000 instances of book banning. we do know the real reason for these bands and they are ramping up more political influence exerted over local scoreboards with elections becoming increasingly intense battleground with the far right succeeding in advancing its agenda to the press who don't deserve conservative values. coming up you will see a documentary that explores a south dakota community and it's a fight against its own school board's decision to pull books from school shells including one by dave eggers. we heard his book was banned

and he wanted answers. he is in tonight for the premier of to be destroyed. >> i am here because my book along with four others was pulled from the shelves at high school libraries and the students who were assigned the books were no longer allowed to read them and seniors in high school are about to be totally independent people and treated as adult in the eyes of the law and they certainly can handle a few passages in a few book that have a little bit of sexual content or adult content. >> when we come back i will be joined by the director of that project. that project. during the wise buys sales event, get two progressives and a comprehensive eye exam for just $129.95. book an exam online today. your gut is like a garden growing both good bacteria and bad. that balance is key to a healthy gut environment.

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before the break, we were talking about book banning and the film documentary to be destroyed. it features the best-selling author dave eggers on his quest to understand why his book the circle along with four others was banned in schools in south dakota. joining me now is the director of the film arthur bradford. it is glad -- glad to have you. why did you want to make the film in the first place? >> i had been in touch with the author who is featured in the film. i thought the story he was telling was interesting and i

thought it would be an interesting perspective to go to one of these communities where the book was being restricted and see it from the point of view of one of the writers who had written one of the books. >> that is an interesting perspective. i was amazed about how open and honest the school board members you talk to were about when you asked them about the reasons they targeted and banned the books they did. can you tell us what were some of the things they said. we use the prize they were so candid about why they said it? >> yes. i think there really is a misconception around certain people that have like a secret agreement among teachers to hyper sexualize kids or something and i think there was a real fear in that community that was being stoked against the teachers. i think it was really unfair. i think dave just came in at the urging of the teachers and

let them get a sense of power and voice. >> even as there are book bans on the rise, there's a study that says the circulation of those books that are banned is 12% more than of those that are not and why do you think that is the case? is it more so if you restrict something, people are more likely to indulge in it? what you think that students are interpreting when these books are banned? give them a little bit of a signal that this may be something that i do want to gravitate towards? >> i think that is true. what is interesting is it is so hard to get students to read anything these days and i think maybe that you are right that banning a book might peak your curiosity -- peak mac -- interest their curiosity.

people have no interest in probably reading this and maybe they just get this active propaganda that says there are a few parts in this book that are objectionable. >> do you think there is a connection between the students experiencing these book bands and a desire to do this even more? >> i think that could be true. i was impressed with the students at rapid city and there were several of them that blew us away with their reasoning and, there is really nothing like a student to speak out against a book ban like this and adults can argue all they want but when you hear from the students, it is really something. what i like to think is if you watch this documentary, you see a community feeling empowered.