didn't push back very hard. so my advice is when they started trying to do that to tim walz about his national guard service, is to push back hard. just come right back in the face of those who are lying about his service because i think being above the fray didn't work in 2004. i think it's not the way to go this time. i think they should hit hard. >> we'll see what they to in the days ahead because the attacks from the right continue. please read the piece. "washington post" website. associate editor of "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. hello, arizona! [ applause ] wow!

hey! [ crowd chanting ] well, you might have seen a few people showed up in philadelphia the other night. then 10,000 plus walked into a field in western wisconsin. and then, on wednesday, the largest crowd of the campaign showed up in detroit, michigan. but arizona just couldn't leave it alone, could ya? [ applause ] wow. you know, it's not as if anybody cares about crowd sizes or

anything. >> whew, okay. vice presidential nominee tim walz poking the bear just a little bit during his rally with vice president kamala harris on friday. we've seen thousands of supporters show up for the new democratic ticket since their debut last tuesday in philadelphia. wow, what a difference a week or so makes. >> look at those numbers. mika, i mean -- >> i can't. >> -- look at the numbers. the philadelphia event, when it first came out, seems like two weeks ago, doesn't it? >> yeah. >> so huge. wisconsin seemed to be even bigger. detroit was mammoth. then glendale, reports of 15,000 people there, more than barack obama had in his 2008 campaign. then the vegas show last night. let's just say what it is. these are like -- these have transcended politics and gotten

into popular culture. they just have. it's something that we've talked about before. we talked about with barack obama. we talked about how it happened in 1980 with ronald reagan. you have people talking about these things like they're rock shows, like they're taylor swift events. people asking if, you know, their parents if they can -- younger people who aren't even interested in the campaign asking their parents. i've heard several times, do you think we can get into these events? can we drive? people who have been republicans their entire life, actually worked as republicans on the hill, talked about driving five hours with friends to go to these events. it's going to be one of the great challenges for republicans and for the trump/vance team, to try to figure out how to slow

down this momentum. right now, it just seems day in, day out, to keep getting more powerful by the day. unfortunately, for republican strategists, donald trump is doing the opposite of what they want him to do. really quickly, let me read this. this is from "the new york times" talking about over the past couple of weeks. mr. trump has questioned ms. harris' racial identity at a conference for black journalists. he attacked brian kemp, the popular republican governor in the key swing state of georgia. he's seen new polling that put him behind has harris in several key states. mark halperin reporting many that were with trump over the weekend were shaken by his fixation on coverage, crowd size, and election stealing, to which he might actually win back

the white house. everybody was talking, and we'll get to this, mika, this also from halperin's newsletter this morning. taking the cake online, halperin writes, was his truly politically, worse than claiming 2020 was stolen and politically worse than celebrating january 6th accusation, that kamala harris used a.i. to generate a fake crowd at her michigan rally, an accusation so unhinged, writes halperin, that i can barely type this paragraph. a charge so fundamentally ludicrous that stephen king himself, at first thought, it must be a joke. >> right. the post is really -- it deserves a place of its own in the conversation coming up. we'll get to that. we're going to have to read through it because you make a great point.

it's just hard to believe. that is how much kamala harris' crowds have gotten to him. meanwhile, the vice president is trying to flip the script on the issue of immigration, putting the blame for the problems at the border squarely on the former president. of course, because he told republicans to not go with the best deal they could ever get on immigration. and former san francisco mayor, willie brown, is questioning donald trump's memory after trump claimed the two rode in a helicopter together, which brown says never happened. now, it seems it was a different man that trump was thinking of. super cringe worthy. we'll get to that in a moment. we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay is with us. president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton is here.

and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes along with us. and conservative attorney george conway is here, as well. a lot to get to, joe. a lot of movement of the harris/walz campaign across the country. >> right. >> also in the polls. >> yeah. of course, jonathan lemire, we could talk about the polls. "the new york times"/siena polls have always trended for trump. took a sharp turn over the past week. now, harris up in the three key industrial states. pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. just a really dramatic shift. that's something donald trump obviously is seeing. there you see, again, all three states. the numbers inside the numbers are even more surprising, how quickly, how dramatically things have changed. if you look at those numbers and you look at the numbers inside the numbers, you are reminded

what americans have been telling us for the past four years. they do not want -- they did not want a repeat of 2020. so they don't have a repeat of 2020. you look at those numbers, though, first of all, really quickly, the economy. we haven't seen the economy that close in several years. it's just a six-point gap. obviously, on abortion, kamala harris well ahead there. immigration, only five points. you know, it's fascinating. i think if they continue the argument, harris/walz continue the argument that she put forward in arizona, you're going to actually see those numbers tighten up even more. because she has been a winning argument because it happens to be the truth. donald trump killed the strongest border protection bill in the past 30 years for political reasons. jonathan, let's start this week

with the big picture. one, kamala harris is doing very well in the polls for now. it's only august. we said it when it was only july, when it was only june. it's only august. things don't get real until the end of september when people start to vote, so it is only august. she's certainly doing very well right now, but there's two sides to this coin. not only is she doing well and doing far better than i think most anybody expected her to do, donald trump, according to his supporters, according to his staffers, doing worse. doing everything they begged him not to do. he's talking about january 6th. as the mark halperin report says about the fundraising and everything else, a near meltdown with a lot of fundraisers because he kept talking about crowd sizes. go back to his first day as president of the united states

and what he did there. so harris is doing well on one side. donald trump doing everything his staff does not want him to do on the other side. and then i've got to say, i was with stephen king on this one. when i read that truth social post about her crowds being fake, i was sure, i said, i'm not going to fall for this one. i was sure it was a fake post. in fact, i remained sure it was a fake post for several hours, until we got confirmation. i'll quote halperin. politically worse than claiing the election was stolen and more than january 6th. this is more unhinged than that.

republicans now fretting, saying he seems to be getting worse at the worst time for republicans. >> completely disconnected from reality. let's do big picture and start with the democratic side. first of all, what a successful barnstorming tour here for vice president harris and her new running mate, hitting battleground state after battleground state, drawing crowds and sharpening their message. in arizona, it's important. i was a border state senator. i can talk about immigration. here was a deal that was on the table, authored by one of the most conservative republicans in the senate, lankford, and donald trump killed it. if she can hit that, the numbers in the polls will close. not many democrats believe they'll win on the issue of immigration, maybe not win on the issue of the economy, but if they can mitigate the damage, and trump's advantage in those categories shrunk dramatically from the lead he had over president biden, that's significant. we have seen now, we talk about trend lines on this show all the

time in polling. yes, those three states, wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan, they're within the margin of error. they're also close. but the trend is heavily towards harris, and it's rushing toward harris in recent weeks. the vice president at this point throwing the equivalent of a no-hitter in the first three weeks of her campaign. hoping to keep that going with the democratic convention next week. she will have obstacles in front of her, no doubt, but right now, she's on a roll. george conway, not on a roll, donald trump, who is imploding. there has been terrific reporting over the weekend. "the new york times" had a great story. i've been talking to sources who back up what joe was just saying, about how the republicans are freaking out because trump can't stay focused. we had that unhinged news conference last week. we have these fundraisers where he is giving private remarks, talking about crowd size, doubling down on his attacks about the vice president's identity. then culminating in the truth social post, which i also have truth social, i'm sorry to say,

and i triple checked it to make sure it was a real post on his site, and it was. it was real. george, we now know that at this point, donald trump is so rattled about crowd sizes, he's taking up conspiracy theories from his fever swamps of the right, elevating it, maybe even believing it. it wreaks of desperation. >> yeah. as i've been yammering about for five or six years now, he's a deeply unwell man. he is a deeply psychologically disturbed individual. if he were a member of your family, you'd be taking him, staging an intervention and taking him into a psychiatric hospital. if melania and ivanka and eric and don jr. care about their father, and i assume -- their father and husband, and i assume they do, they'd be doing that if they could. he is, as i've been saying, a narcissistic sociopath, a pathological narcissist and

sociopath as defined by the american psychiatric association. these are, historians will tell you, the traits of authoritarian dictators throughout history. what we're seeing now is, as you put it, an implosion. this, i believe, is what ultimately was always going to happen. the final implosion of donald trump. i mean, it's like hitler when hitler was moving around divisions that didn't exist in the last ten days of the war in the fuehrer bunker. he has completely lost it. this post is beyond question, delusional. it was also inevitable because what's happening here is he realizes, he realizes he's gotten under more pressure than ever because he's not just running for the presidency. he is running for his freedom. he's going to go to jail if he does not win the presidency, and he can see that now. that's why he's doubling down on the unreality. it is partly for self-soothing. partly, he can't help it. he is a pathological liar, being

a sociopath. what we are watching is it shall i mean, we'll make fun of it because it provokes him into self-destruction, which is what the country needs, but it is actually very, very sad. >> well, and i will say, charlie sykes, you don't have to have george conway's point of view, and you done have to be voting against donald trump to look at what happened this weekend and not be horrified. that is the reporting. republicans absolutely horrified at a time where they need him to act rationally, at a time they need him to push back hard against kamala harris, he's going in a direction they believe is the most destructive. you can go back, as "the new york times" neatly summarized the past week and a half, it's been terrible for him. first, he questioned whether kamala harris was black or not. laughable for a woman who was in a historically black sorority at

howard university and has identified as a black woman her entire life. then he goes to georgia, and not only does he insult the extraordinarily popular republican governor of georgia, but he insults brian kemp's wife, which enrages republican women across the state. now, of course, this obsession at fundraisers that's unnerving his biggest supporters. he wrote a letter, i'm sure you saw this, to one of his biggest contributors, insulting the widow of sheldon adelson. thinking maybe there won't be support in the future. now, he's coming forward with the a.i. generated stuff. republicans believe he's doing the opposite of what he should

do. "the wall street journal" editorial page this morning is suggesting that he attacks kamala harris on health care. i don't -- with all due respect to "the wall street journal" editorial page, i don't think that's going to stem those 15,000 person crowds. but i must say, were i a republican strategist right now, i wouldn't know what path to take. this is reminiscent to how republicans were feeling in the 2008 election. there was a freight train going 200 miles an hour, and republicans had no idea how to stop it. >> yeah. and if only they had been warned. by the way, you know, as we're watching this, you know, decomposition meltdown by donald trump, notice that not a single prominent republican is looking at this and saying, hey, you know, let's get off this train. this is deeply wrong. let's go in a different

direction or change my vote. they're completely locked in. i also agree with you, that what's really rattling donald trump is that this has become a cultural phenomenon, not simply a political phenomenon. i want to go back to what george was saying. you know, yes, it is sad and we can make fun of it. it is alarming. but it is also profoundly dangerous, what is going on. because you look at that insane tweet, and it's not just that he's going down this rabbit hole of deep swamp conspiracy theories. he's using this as, you know, a way of saying that the democrats are cheating. that kamala harris should be disqualified. look, put this in the larger context of what's happening. this is pre-election denialism by donald trump. it's no mystery, donald trump is never going to graciously concede defeat in this election. he's already laying the groundwork for what's going to happen after november. i think this is going to be an

extraordinarily dangerous period. he had election deniers in key states. his base is psychologically not prepared for him to lose. and as george mentioned, this is a desperate man. donald trump will not simply lose the election. donald trump knows if he is not elected president, he may be going to jail. he will do and say anything. you see in that tweet, not merely the fact that he is rattled and losing it, but that he is already coming up with his lines for why he can deny the results of the election, how kamala harris' nomination is unconstitutional, how this is being stolen. all of that in advance. no one should be surprised or think that this fever is going to break on november 5th. whatever happens, we are about to head into a very dangerous period in american politics, led

by donald trump, obviously assisted by republicans who simply have decided that they're not going to draw the line. >> well, and you know, mika, yesterday, several republicans, certainly commentators, started asking questions. i know erick erickson did after the kemp insult. basically saying, you know, what's going on? tim carney, of course, who is just a great author. love having him on the show. great author, also washington examiner, columnist, scholar. i thought he put it very well. he said, republicans, when he was talking about this truth social post, said, republicans, you only have yourself to blame. republicans, you are here, we are here because of the choices you made in primary season. it just reminded me, and i haven't said this yet on the show, but we've talked about it. you know, there will, of course,

be conspiracy theorists who say, oh, this was always rigged against us, if kamala harris goes on to win. oh, this was our fate. our fate is -- no. they chose their fate. we warned about what they were doing. i will tell you, i heard, i know you heard, i know so many people heard, real excitement about another woman who was running for president, another woman that was younger and also had a diverse background, and that was nikki haley. >> yeah. >> i can't count the number of people i heard talking about how excited they were about nikki haley, whether they were republicans, independents, democrats. i heard a lot of democrats talking about nikki haley, being excited about her. much in the same way they're talking now about kamala harris. i mean, this is a choice that

republicans have made for what? the past nine years. this is where it has led them. you just wonder when they're going to start focusing on winning elections again and not running, not running a grievance campaign. >> they have an uphill battle. donald trump spent part of his weekend rallying in montana. he was in bozeman, where he played the celine hit, "my heart will go on." dion objected to the campaign using her song saying, quote, it was unauthorized, and also, really? that song? think about it. "titanic." as for his speech, trump went after joe biden who is no longer running against and also attacked the incumbent democratic senator he is trying to unseat.

he attacked him for his physical appearance. here's how it went. >> what do you like better, doesn't matter anymore, but crooked joe or sleepily joe? sleepy joe or crooked joe? really? they're both correct. i think crooked joe is more correct to say. all right, ready? crooked first, right? what to you like better, crooked joe? [ applause ] or sleepy joe? [ applause ] okay. crooked seems to always win. i mean, he is a crooked guy. all he had to do is -- think of it, if he hadn't done the debate, he'd still be running. one of the biggest phonies in american politics, his name is john tester. [ crowd booing ]

and i don't speak badly about somebody's physical disability, but he's got the biggest stomach i have ever seen. i swear. that's the biggest stomach. i have never seen a stomach like that. pause he doesn't look that heavy. not allowed to use the word fat, so if you use the word fat, you can say obese, you can say anything, but you can't say fat. that's the end of your political career. i said it the other night, somebody in the audience said, chris christie is a fat pig. i said, sir, chris christie is not a fat pig. you should not -- and we argued about it for three, four minutes, so that was it. no, he's not a fat pig. >> three weeks ago when we kept hearing about the new, more mature, grown-up donald trump? let's please never have that conversation again. reverend sharpton, let's -- it

was about three weeks ago when we heard that talk about this new, reformed trump. that was at the republican national convention. republicans thought they were on a glide path to a rout to win back the white house, both chambers of congress. a gop onslaught is what they were looking at. that's changed. what we're seeing here from donald trump is someone who has completely been knocked off balance and has yet to recover. his campaign seems like they can want either, including by getting him out in front of voters. montana, competitive senate seat there. that's why he went. he hasn't been in a battleground state in over a week. there is nothing on the calendar coming up. democrats have their convection next week. this is leaving trump to being on truth social just posting screeds about fake polls and crowd size. this is a man you have known for a long time. he's panicked. >> he's not only panicked. you must remember, donald trump is a narcissist. narcissists are deeply insecure, so they need validation from

external things that would confirm and embellish in their mind this sense of narcissism that they obsess with. when he sees the 15,000 crowd going to his opponent, all of these things go to his core insecurity. he goes back to his father and how he grew up, not being good enough for his father. all of his worst fears has come into his reality. he's become unwinded here. he's become someone that has totally eroded in public. i'm not surprised about it. i think that the fact that his campaign, people cannot cover for him and cannot shut him down is probably the only political surprise. as far as him saying he was going to be a different person after his assassination attempt, that would happen to normal people. i mean, i was stabbed once

leading a non-violent march. i helped me focus. but he is more of a narcissist than anything. kamala harris represents everything that invalidates who he tries to propose himself to be, even to himself. to where i really feel it is time for somebody to -- as you said, i've known him 40 years. i know donald jr. and eric to some degree. they need to come get their daddy because he is going to really continue to spiral down. >> katty kay, it makes one wonder where this is going to go because it doesn't appear donald trump is able to flip the script or try to take on a new tone. there's also, like, his entire record that proves that that could be problematic. but really, this is -- we're just about to hit the time, less than three months before the campaign where, really, people start to focus on who are they going to vote for in the next election? the democrats have really set up

the ultimate contrast, haven't they? >> yeah. that's what's frustrating for people around donald trump. i mean, i'm getting texts saying there's so much we could go after kamala harris and the walz ticket on. talk about immigration, inflation, the amount of government spending there's been in the biden/harris administration. we could talk about the border. literally, they're laying out the policies they'd like to see donald trump go after kamala harris on to try to define her, when there isn't much time left. instead, there is the candidate talking about that it is unfair her honeymoon is lasting so long or she's getting overwhelming positive media coverage and that's unfair. maybe that it is unfair she's even on the ticket at all. somehow, there is something unconstitutional about that, he's suggested at one point. george conway, when you listen to what he is saying about the candidacy at the moment, do you think he is setting himself up for a position in which if he loses in november, he can turn around and say, okay, 2020, the election was stolen from me

because they changed the rules around voting because of covid. this time, the election was stolen was, somehow, her candidacy in and of itself was illegitimate? >> absolutely agree. charlie put it quite well earlier. i mean, it is profoundly dangerous, where he is going with this. he's done it before. i remember famously, he said, i remember lesley stahl once said the reason i lie about the media is when you say something about me, then i can -- i can discredit you before you even say what you're about to say about me. he did the same thing in 2020, saying, oh, the ballots, the mail-in ballots are fraudulent. he's doing this same thing again. everything is unfair. his narcissism makes him want to play the victim. he cannot lose if a fair fight, is his narcissistic view. therefore, if he perceives himself to be losing, and he clearly is on the enthusiasm

scale and the swing state polls are turning against him, he wants to say the other side is cheating. it's a massive form of psychological projection. donald trump always accuses the other person, the person who is opposing him or person he wants to beat up on of being exactly what he is. he's calling kamala harris a cheater. cheater by using a.i. and a cheater by other means. you know, that's his m.o. it's just, again, this classic psychological profile of a deeply disturbed narcissist. he is playing it by the book. when it is somebody running for president and has a large, massive following with tens of millions of people, it's just extremely dangerous to the country and to our democracy. >> charlie sykes, we're looking at this remarkable turnaround. the quickest turnaround i've seen in presidential politics in my lifetime. i mean, i guess we could compare

it to 1988. but kamala harris is not michael dukakis. these crowd sizes, again, this is the last thing you want to see in your opponent's campaign where something is taking on a life of its own, and it does move from the political into pop culture atmosphere. that's where we are. again, let's circle back and say, if you had a candidate that you could effectively employ, a conservative candidate to try to stop this momentum, what you're hearing on the ground in wisconsin, what we're hearing wherever we go, what is the best republican tact? what would the best trump tact be to slow down this remarkable momentum? >> sometimes you can't slow down the momentum. i mean, there are moments where you have this organic shift that becomes very, very difficult to push back.

you cannot manufacture those crowd sizes. you can't spend enough money to get that enthusiasm. but the frustration i'm hearing from republicans is they feel they actually have issues if they could just get donald trump to talk about the issues. they think that immigration is a powerful issue. that he think inflation is a powerful issue. they think that some of the comments that have been made in the past by kamala harris and tim walz can be weaponized. you know, they'd want to talk about crime. they'd want to talk about, you know, excessive government spending. but all of that is being drowned out by donald trump grievances and the craziness. you know, what i'm hearing from people is that, you know, as you point out, and, again, we need to keep coming back to this kind of, you know, cultural wave. how do you counter that? i mean, i've seen this. we've seen this in 2008. you know, maybe even in 2006. there comes a moment where

there's nothing the campaign can do. there is nothing you can say that's going to blunt something like this. the extraordinary thing about this is not just the sort of, you know, politics, the joy of the politics and optimism. and this is very unusual in american politics. an incumbent vice president is now running as the agent of change. people are exhausted. they want to turn the page. i don't know, maybe, joe, you can think of a time when a vice president has run for the presidency, when they are the change agent. >> right. >> that's what kamala harris is at the moment. because, in part, i mean, obviously, she represents dramatic change as a black woman, but also because donald trump is kind of a de facto incumbent. >> yeah. >> and because of that, with all that baggage. we are in very, very problematic moment for republicans, and they are flailing. >> it is -- she is the change agent, mika, because, again, for

3 1/2 years, we've heard americans on both sides, 75%, up to 80% of americans saying we don't want the biden/trump rematch. we don't want that. give us somebody else. the partparty's moved in that direction. now, you have somebody who is younger. it's a remarkable split screen right now. by the way, i'd suggest that donald trump, who knows politics and has got as well as anybody, understands that the world is shifting. the political world is shifting, not only underneath him but underneath everybody. this is so much like 2008. i was watching the 2008 convention sitting next to mike murphy.

two republicans watching barack obama accept the nomination. when it was over, he turned to me and goes, "houston, we got a problem. this race is officially over." >> yeah. >> it was sort of that momentum. we saw republicans throughout the fall campaign trying to blunt that incredible surge. they had some clever ads, talking about barack obama being the biggest pop star in the world, comparing him to paris hilton. they were throwing everything against the wall, and nothing stuck. because hope and change ended up being impossible to run against. right now, with kamala harris, you have joy and change. as charlie said, change agent being a vice president, that's hard for republicans to get their arms around. they've got three months to figure out how to do it.

>> among other chants, "we're not going back," all of a sudden, "mind your own damn business." you name it, the harris/walz campaign has captured something. charlie sykes, george conway, thank you, both, very much for being on this morning. we're going to take a moment now to look at the other stories making headlines. there's a lot happening oversea. it's not yet clear what caused a passenger plane to crash in brazil on friday. although, there is some suspension a buildup of ice may have closed a role. the bodies of the 62 victims and the black box recorder has been gathered from the scene. families are waiting to hear from authority. an opening shipment of air to ground munitions will resume.

it was froze been 2021 in response to the saudi campaign in yemen, including strikes on civilians. the white house, however, has grown closer to the kingdom in recent years amid an effort to prevent iranian expansion in the region. and ukraine continues to march inside russian territory. president volodymyr zelenskyy acknowledged for the first time that his military is conducting a cross-border offensive. it is the deepest raid inside the russian federation since moscow began its full-scale invasion of ukraine in february of 2022. and still ahead on "morning joe," former san francisco mayor willie brown is weighing in on donald trump's claim that the two of them almost died in a helicopter crash. we'll show you those new remarks and explain who trump may actually have been thinking of. we're back in 90 seconds.

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thursday. >> i know willie brown very well. in fact, i went down in a helicopter with him. we thought maybe this is the end. we were in a helicopter going to a certain location together, and there was an emergency landing. this was not a pleasant landing. willie was, he was a little concerned. i know him pretty well. i haven't seen him in years. >> trump also implied that brown shared with him some unflattering information about kamala harris. the next day, brown reacted to the comments, telling cnn he and trump had never been in a helicopter together. >> have you ever been in a helicopter with donald trump? >> no. never happened. period. i think my memory is probably better than his. >> you know, mika, i remember i was in a helicopter. i'm here. george clooney is here.

>> no. >> brad pitt is backseat. tom cruise, always a show-off, is like maneuvering, going through -- >> hanging from the -- yeah. >> almost crashed, yeah. >> no. >> i don't know. i can't remember. >> yeah, it turns out trump may have confused willie brown with someone else. on friday, "politico" published a piece with -- >> really? >> yeah, it's unfortunate. "politico" published a piece with an exclusive interview with former los angeles council member and state senator, nate holden, who said he remembered a choppy helicopter ride with trump several years ago, from trump tower in new york to atlantic city, new jersey. what's more, former trump organization executive on saturday confirmed it was nate holden who was on the helicopter and not willie brown.

jonathan lemire, that's just unfortunate. >> first, i didn't realize how close joe was to joining the "oceans 11" cast. >> yeah, it was close. >> would have been really -- >> he was an alternate. >> would have been really good for the matt damon role maybe. rev, we know that donald trump lies, then he lies some more. when he's done lying, he continues to lie. but this one, you think, you were just telling me at break, you think there was something a little more insidious here. it may have been more than just him mixing up men. >> in my opinion, it was definitely more. i think that the real point a lot of us are missing, he said it to say that willie brown, who had dated kamala harris, had told him a lot of things, insidious things about kamala harris. the objective of the story was to muddy up kamala harris. let's not miss, he didn't just miss up black guys. he needed a guy he could say

told him these scandalous things about kamala harris. that was his goal. that's what he tried to do. the fact that he was exposed, having the wrong guy, people are forgetting that, well, then who? this guy holden couldn't have been telling you scandalous stories. no one has come with that part. what was then -- how does he fabricate a conversation if he was talking to somebody that didn't have that kind of background? >> we should note, katty, willie brown had nothing but good things to say about kamala harris these last few weeks. >> yeah. and he was certainly not going to suddenly start spilling things to donald trump that donald trump could, you know, produce out on the campaign trail. you know, when you're 79, an older man, and you make mistakes. your memory starts to go. we saw that, you know, very publicly with joe biden. donald trump is not that far behind him in age. one of the things that's really remarkable about the turnaround of the last three weeks is how the spotlight of age has been

put on donald trump. the spotlight that was turned so firmly on joe biden, there is now the reality that, at the top of the ticket, you have the man who would be the oldest man to become president if he wins in november. it's very different from the kind of youth and energy we're seeing on the democratic side at the moment. coming up, we're going to bring you the highlights from the olympic competition over the weekend and the closing ceremony in paris. as well as the final medal count for team usa. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." when migraine strikes, you're faced with a choice. accept the trade offs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose quickly stops migraine in its tracks. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are

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welcome back. it was a strong finish for team usa on the final day of olympic competition at the paris games. the american women's basketball team earned one last gold medal for the u.s. yesterday, squeaking by home country france by just one point in the final. fueled by a game-high 21 points from a'ja wilson, the u.s. bounced back from being down ten in the third quarter. but the contest came down to what looked like a buzzer-beating three-pointer to send the teams to overtime. but replays of the shot, as you can see there, by france's gabby williams showed her foot was on the line. only counted for two, so, therefore, team usa escapes with a 67-66 win, and it captures its eighth consecutive gold medal. the u.s. women leave paris with

a remarkable 61-game win streak in olympic basketball competition. that victory was particularly meaningful for u.s. star brittney griner, who was pictured with tears streaming down her face as she stood beside her teammates with a gold medal around her neck, listening to the national anthem and watching the american flag rise in the arena. this trip to paris marked griner's first time traveling internationally to play basketball since being wrongfully detained for nearly ten months in a russian prison. that win capped a golden weekend for the u.s. in major team competitions, as the men's basketball team also defeated france, winning 98-87 for its fifth gold medal in a row. the u.s. women's national soccer team restored its standing on the world stage, beating brazil, 1-0, for its first olympic gold medal since 2012, and fifth overall. paris closed out 2 1/2 weeks of spectacular olympic sports with

a star-studded show in france's national stadium yesterday. host duties were then handed over to the site of the next summer games, los angeles. it featured actor tom cruise, there he is, descending from the top of stade de france to "mission impossible" riffs on the electric guitar, before he roared out of the arena with the olympic flag flying on the back of a motorcycle. then in a prerecorded segment, cruz drove his bike past the eiffel tower onto a waiting plane, and then as one does, he skydived over los angeles, where he affixed the olympic rings to the hollywood sign. oh, yes, the hollywood games, the los angeles games are slated to kick off july 14th, 2028. joe, i mean, those games can't get here soon enough. tom cruise's showmanship included. this wrapped up what was a spectacular games.

revived the olympic movement. paris couldn't have been a more perfect host. the u.s. finished up with a couple more gold medals. >> it is so amazing. every four years, i think, all right, this olympics is not going to be like the last olympics. i thought the same thing here. i was talking to my kids about it earlier and, you know, as it was starting, i said, you know, used to be, you know, my mom and dad and brother and sister would all gather around the tv, would all watch the olympics. if we had family reunions, we were gathered around the olympics. that's what people did. it's just too bad that doesn't happen anymore. couple of my kids said, well, have you heard about -- and they named athletes i hadn't heard about, who they had found out about on social media. everybody was back around the tv set or streaming it online. it was pretty incredible all around. this was the most successful olympics ever in so many

different ways. and "the washington post" had this to say about the hosts of the event. france's plan for the 2024 olympics was a gamble that was fraught with risks. for the most part, the big bets paid off. before the games were under way, there were concerns about terror attacks, cyber attacks, labor strikes, political tensions, heat waves, bedbugs, et cetera, et cetera. an international polling firm found that only one-third of french citizens were enthusiastic about the olympics. the rest of them were angry. critics, though, were hushed. paris managed, "the washington post" writes, to all visitors and viewers with spectacular venues, showcasing the city's sites. this welcomes spectators back for the first time since the pandemic, and the roar of the crowds witnessing athletic feats pumped new energy into the

capital. some parisians who had left on vacation to escape the olympics returned so they wouldn't miss out. let's bring in right now a man that everybody returns from their vacation for when they hear he is on the show. the host of "pablo torre finds out" on meadowlark media, pablo torre. there's so many story lines, which makes the olympics great. it's the great, spectacular event, and also, the individual stories. steph curry, i still can't believe that shot. >> yes. >> katieledecky, simone biles. brittney griner weeping. the women's soccer team beating brazil in the finals. the women's rugby team. that last second rush for glory. >> yes. >> noah lyles. of course, i think the most inspiring, and i know you'll agree with me, moment from the

whole olympics that i think 100 years from now, they'll remember, much like they remember the great moments, mark spitz in '72. 1980, u.s. hockey team. the australian break dancer. >> a nation tries out for you, raygun. writing an thesis masquerading as a performance in the olympics. >> it's a tina fey gag. come on! >> yeah. a zero-point routine. it feels like rebel wilson will be starring in this movie in three months. all of us were wondering, are we being pranked or is this actually just art? if there is a more french sentence than that, joe, i challenge you to find it. it was hard to discern performance art from performance.

raygun, upside down there on the screen. >> yes. >> i spent so much time learning about raygun. i am mad at myself at this point. i have to give credit to the performer in question who, again, 0.0, phenomenal. >> i'm telling you. i talked to a college friend who would always sing break dance, making fun of it. i said, i'm thinking of you this weekend. he said, my wife has been online trying to learn everything she can learn about raygun or whatever her name is. >> yeah, the professor, academic, writing a thesis, yeah. >> listen, so what are your headlines from this? what were the great moments? we have great moments that we remember over the past 20, 30 years, 40 years in olympics. what were the great two, three moments for you? >> you mentioned this theme of the parisians coming back

because they realized, wait a minute, we're not too cool for this. we're not too cool to celebrate the olympics. that's how america felt. that's how nba players felt. i want to start with steph curry, joe. i know that you are getting reintegrated into the nba subculture i've been swimming in. if you had missed the steph curry experience the last decade or so, this was as good a time capsule, encapsulation of what it was like. i believe this dude is the perfect american metaphor. he does things like that shot over two french players that he had no business taking. i mean, i should say, he had every business taking it pause he is steph curry. but lebron james is over there open. kevin durant was open. it was a six-point game. he does this to win it, and the reason it's so perfectly american to me is that it is so deeply arrogant, what he pulled off, but because steph curry is a guy who launches these parabolic miracles, it justifies

the very basis of the experiment. these are miracles draped in arrogance that, because they work, it's just so magical. joe, the nba players delivering truly a survival of a near death experience when it comes to their ego, their greatness. i want to start with that. i'm still in awe of how much that was going to be a moment that i'm going to remember forever. >> yeah. pablo, you know, the one thing i also loved about that shot, and i love about steph curry, is he comes from sort of the kobe school of dedication, practice. you know, he goes out, he takes 250, 300 shots every day. he'll take 100 shots before a game. he's maniacal about his practice routine. i guarantee people like me tuning in, look, wait, how could he have made that shot? i will bet you. i'll bet you in those 250 shots

a day, 100, he's tried 1,000 different variations of that. so for people that tuned in and said, what a lucky shot, the thing i love about him, nothing lucky at all. like kobe, he just works harder than everybody else around him. >> well, he is the most fun player i've ever seen, joe. he's so good, steph curry is, that he's convinced a nation of aspiring basketball players that they can do that. the thing about a three-point shot, of course, is it makes everybody feel, because it is a shot that you don't need to dunk, because it is a shot that is from long range, it's just to fool people into thinking, oh, we can be like that guy. i think even all the hard work in the world will, you know, you can't prevent all of these windshields and car hoods in suburban driveways from getting dented because kids are thinking, i'll be like steph curry. you can't. but when it works, it looks just that fun. the most fun play i've ever seen, actually. >> i can certainly speak to his influence on my 13 and 9-year-old who are chucking threes.

i'm trying to teach them kevin mchale style low post play, not working. >> for sure. >> the women's basketball team, gold. emotional moment for brittney griner. >> yeah. >> also the women's soccer team, gold. redeeming itself after a tough world cup. >> women's basketball team, 61 straight victories. women's soccer team had not won gold in the olympics since 2012. this team, the u.s. women's national team, is a new team with an old problem in that sense. a new coach, new trio. megan rapinoe, alex morgan, abby wambach, they're all gone. trinity rodman in their play. denis rodman's daughter, she's arguably the most talented woman's soccer player in the world. swanson scoring this goal. they won three straight 1-0 games to win the gold medal. here was a team that offense,

offense became their calling card. it was with three new players. they'll take this team and this program into the next generation. that is something that was not guaranteed when these olympics started. another gold medal to add to the medal count. >> by the way, so many great track and field stars, as well. we saw the drama of noah lyles. >> incredible. >> we can go on and on. the women, the men, extraordinary. >> sydney mclaughlin. >> oh, my god, yes. i want to end, though, on really the two big superstars coming out of this olympic game that we knew about before, but two completely different tracks to victory. katie ledecky, who keeps on keeping on. and simone biles, an extraordinary story, extraordinary movie in the making. >> yes. katie ledecky tied for the all-time lead in gold medals won by a female olympian. coming out of america, joe.

this is somebody who leaves their competition out of the frame. the crazy part about katie ledecky, she's done this four straight olympics she won gold. started age 15. she's going to do this in 2028 in l.a., probably breaking michael phelps' record for four straight gold medals in the same event. a distance swimming event. it's brutal, that event, in specific. then simone biles, of course. the last time we'd seen her in tokyo, she'd withdrawn from the competition because of the twisties, the equivalent of the yips, preventing her from having confidence in herself. she comes back and increases the degree of difficulty. she has now, i believe, five skills, as they're called in gymnastics, named after her. the biles is how you know you've made it in a sport, they name stuff after you. of course, she helps win the team all-around. so, to me, simone biles, never seen anything like it. i don't think we ever will

again. the fact that all of these olympians, joe and mika, were there at the same time in paris, over delivering on insane hype, is why this was my favorite games i can remember. yeah. >> unbelievable. >> msnbc contributor pablo torre, thank you so much. we appreciate you. >> thank you, pablo. >> we'll see you soon. >> yes. all right. it is two minutes past the top of the hour. former president trump is falsely claiming the crowds at some of the most recent rallies for vice president kamala harris have been fake. from last tuesday until yesterday, tens of thousands of americans have attended rallies for the harris campaign in pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, arizona, and nevada. but in a series of social media posts -- >> mika? >> yeah? >> can we stop and look at the crowds for a second. reverend al, you've run for president.

keep these up. philadelphia, wisconsin, detroit, they're huge. glendale seemed to go to the next level, 15,000 people reported. las vegas, massive. you've been involved in politics for a very long time. you've run for president yourself. talk about what you're seeing and if you've seen this at any time in your life, other than, say, barack obama in 2008. >> you're looking across the country, in different locations, different regions of the country. the numbers on got larger. to draw in philly, michigan, and nevada, shows this is real. the numbers i've not seen, other than 2008 with obama. i think the obama numbers in terms of the large turnouts were late in the campaign. this is august. this is very early in terms of she's not

she's not hopefully peaking. if the numbers keep increasing, it'll be unbelievable by the octobers i've always cautioned people around kamala, don't peak early. when you look at this in different regions of the country, it is multiracial i think people have not talked about the diversity of the crowd and the span of age, young and old. this is not a plblack rally or white rally, old rally or young rally. it is something that has encompassed and united a lot of people which is real politically, very, very positive for her, and shows that it has real cultural impact we've not seen anything like this >> yet, in a series of social media posts, donald trump has been spreading misinformation, claiming the harris campaign has been using artificial intelligence to fake the crowds. in one post, trump included a

photo from harris' rally in detroit, writing, quote, "look, we caught her with a fake crowd. there was nobody there." the harris campaign hit back, writing, "one, this is an actual photo of a 15,000-person crowd for harris/walz in michigan. two, trump has still not campaigned in a swing state in over a week. low energy?" using his words there. meanwhile, at a hampton fundraisers earlier in the month, trump's wealthiest donors hoped the republican nominee would show he is recalibrating after a series of damaging mistakes he did not "new york times" reports according to two people present, trump revived once again his false claims about the 2020 election, telling those present, quote, we -- we've got to stop the steal. claims his advisors had urged him to drop because they don't

help him with swing voters "the time" continues, trump was asked how he planned to take the narrative back from democrats and what his positive vision for the country would be it appeared to be a request for reassurance that mr. trump provided none, though. instead, he criticized m ms. harris on a range of fronts before adding, i am who i am joining the frgs can, we have the co-host of "the weekend," former adviser and spokesperson to kamala harris, symone sanders townsend and staff writer at "the atlantic," tom nichols jonathan lemire, author of "the big lie," it continues, i guess, to an extent with donald trump he holds on that these things real tight, and, yet, i get the feeling he's not understanding that the ground has shifted a bit underneath him perhaps he needs to try something new. >> yeah, first of all, he is looking to the past when

campaigns should really be about the future i've talked to people in trump orbit in recent days who echo this real, almost panic they have, that trump simply cannot adjust to how this race has changed. he is telling the big lie still about the 2020 election. now, he's also telling lots of smaller lies about crowd size and the like tom nichols, i mean, this is a -- it feels like a really important moment in this campaign let's preface it by saying we're nearly three months from election day lots of things can happen between now and then despite harris' remarkable surge, polls suggest this is a race that's still within the margin of error and it's more or less anybody's ball game there were trend lines that favor her and real trend lines for trump which show he simply is flailing. >> i love the line in the "times" story, asking trump for

his positive message for the country. doesn't have one that's not what this election is about for him. this election for him is a grudge match, a kind of narcissistic compensation for what's happened to him and a very practical matter for him. runs to the oval office as fast as he can to stay ahead of indictments and cases. >> audio is going in and out there. we're going to try to fix that >> - g >> guys, can you hear me tom, we'll fix your audio. it is jumping in and out katty, i'll go to you and have you go to symone there is deep resentment donald trump telling people at the fundraiser they rigged the election in 2020 and stole it from me. the deep state tried to kill me. now, basically saying they're trying to rig this election,

too. i thought it was just one of those defining moments when they kept trying to get him to this fundraiser to talk about inflation, tried to get him to talk about the border, tried getting him talking about the economy. his response was, and he's right, he said, i am who i am. if anybody is expecting another gear from donald trump, they're sadly mistaken he is who he is. i think he's decided he's going to win or lose doing exactly what we saw him do this weekend. >> yeah. i mean, just after the shooting against him, he, for a very short period of time, said he'd play nice. he was asked to play nice. he actually said, i have been asked to be nice, and he did it a few days then he announced, that's over now. he went back to being who he is. donald trump, you know, firmly

believes that in 2016, he won that election because he was who he was because he ran the campaign the way he wanted it to be and because he said outrageous things now he's kind of reverting to type in 2024 he's going to try that same playbook again the problem is, all of the poll numbers, the money is now shifting against him i mean, i think the comparison with 2008 is apt this feels like a freight train. something could go wrong if it goes wrong, kamala harris will have to recover fast because there isn't much time. even if you look at the one number, in february, in an nbc poll, joe biden was 20 points behind donald trump when it came to the handling of the economy kamala harris today is just six points behind. i mean, it's -- on all of the big issues that donald trump needs to run on, it's moving against him. >> yeah. i mean, the numbers in these polls are, in fact, remarkable

as i've been talking to folks over the last couple of days, a lot of democratic strategists are excited about what they're seeing in the numbers. my republican friends are a little flernervous. i'd caution folks, the way presidential races are ran and won are not, in fact, on national polls they'll won state by state, district by district some of the battleground state polling is more indicative of where folks are. it's still a little early, though when we look at post, you know, the end of this month, i would argue, post convention, beginning of september, that is when things will start to settle remember, as early as september 7th or 6th, people start voting in this country. the momentum here is amazing the crowds, i heard joe earlier talking about the crowds are literally insane i worked for senator bernie senators 2016 campaign, and i can tell you, the crowds to not vote always. one of the things the harris campaign is doing that i think is extremely smart, which is, if they, in fact, are successful at winning this race, it will be

because of the infrastructure they have built in the battleground operation on "the weekend," talkedharris/ campaign i think it was the beginning of august they had 29,000 canvases and 197,000 phone bank shifts. i want to be clear 197,000 phone bank shifts as a former campaign staffer, that's a lot of shifts. that's a lot of people they said they had 750,000 new supporters what they are saying is that they see these crowds, are excited about the crowds, but they're using the surge of energy to register folks, to persuade and help turn out voters in november, so folks who are already registered, people who want to to the work, they're signing them up to do that voter-to-voter contact on the phones, but also canvassing. that is what is going to make the difference in this election. i don't see a trump infrastructure like what the harris campaign has built. >> yeah. what the harris team has done,

also, of course, is inheriting a lot of the infrastructure from the biden team even when the president was faltering in the polls, like the work was still there they had built this impressive battleground state operation of course, it's a lot of the same people. biden seamlessly now to harris tom nichols, we think we have fixed your audio let's tee you back up here just your thought on this moment in the race, particularly donald trump's inability to adjust? >> sorry apparently, the russian jamming is now over. >> again. >> what i was going to say was that asking donald trump for a positive vision of, you know, what he wants to do for the country is pointless that's not why he is running he is running as a grudge match. he is running to stay out of jail one of the things i think is really interesting about this, you know, with all due respect to president biden, who i think has had a great first term, but i wrote about as having my doubts about whether he can carry on a campaign, is there was a lot of kind of bottled up

strategy and enthusiasm because this was just going to be a kind of grudge match/slug out between these two old warriors who had clashed once before. i think what you're seeing now is that a lot of people are getting involved in a kind of campaign they would rather run, rather than sim ply saying, we have to tough this out one more time to save democracy you've got a lot of real energy and positive messaging trump is not capable of that you can almost see him he doesn't understand any of this now like, he doesn't get anything about this election because he's always run on carnage and doom and misery you know, thousands of americans showing up, looking happy, is something he's not really used to even his rallies are just expressions of, you know, anger and rage and him kind of going on, you know, with these grievances for two hours i think he is genuinely

wrong-footed by this and doesn't understand that 2020 was a fluke. >> kamala harris says she's about joy. donald trump says he's about retri retribution. i am your retribution. accept for 2016, that's just, that just hasn't worked in american politics. i wanted to ask you, tom, while we still had you, about the remarkable events occurring not only in ukraine but into russia, where the ukrainians have decided that, instead of just sitting back and getting hammered in defensive positions, that they are going to go into russia they have done that. it certainly captivated ukrainians as well as put the russians on their back heels what's going on there? what should we expect?

>> it's really been a remarkable thing. this has almost been like a punitive counter invasion. to say, you know, we're not the only ones with a long, sparsely guarded border a lot of things -- the ukrainians are showing a lot of things here all at once. one is that it appears the myth of the invulnerability of russia and the russian armed forces, this has put the kremlin on its back foot. they don't know what to do about it they are stretched thin. it's also interesting to see, to give russians a firsthand experience here of ukrainians showing up and actually, you know, not obliterating apartment blocks and, you know, committing war crimes and murdering people en masse it's really been a kind of fascinating turnabout. now, you know, strategically, there is a supply line involved

that could be imperilled by the russian supply line, but it changes the narrative of a lot of things. there's wry suggestions from some academics and analysts that, you know, try to flip the script on the russians, saying, well, you know, russia's territory is being invaded they should just sue for peace and put up a white flag, as people said about ukraine early on but i think that this is the psychological effect of this war, the strategy on russia is significant. this simply wasn't supposed to happen remember, this war was supposed to be something that was not going to touch russians and would be over in a week. >> all right tom nichols, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. now, we want to move to the palestinian protesters at who rallies last week. vice president kamala harris was interrupted by pro-palestinian protesters here first is her response during wednesday's rally in detroit, followed by the

different tact she took on friday in glendale, arizona. take a look. >> [ crowd chanting ] >> all good. all good i'm here because we believe in democracy. everyone's voice matters but i am speaking now. i am speaking now. you know what? if you want donald trump to win, then say that. otherwise, i'm speaking. [ applause ] >> hold on, hold on. here's the thing we are all in here together. i'm told an extraordinary number of folks who are here together because we love our country,

we're here to fight for our democracy. [ applause ] which includes respecting the voices that i think that we are hearing from let me just say this, on topic of what i think i'm hearing over there. let me just speak to that for a moment, then i'll get back to the business at hand so let me say, i have been clear. now is the time to get a cease-fire deal and get the hostage deal done. now is the time. and the president and i are working around the clock every day to get that cease-fire deal done and bring the hostages home >> joining us now, white house reporter for "the washington

post," who has been reporting on how tens of thousands of pro-palestinian protesters are planning to be at next week's democratic national convention in chicago quote, creating scenes of fury and dissent at a moment when democrats will be working to project unity. yasmin, what can you tell us about what is planned, and was her response helpful, the second one especially then i want to ask you about the first one. >> oh, we have a bit of an audio problem with yasmeen, as well. we'll get back to you. we'll figure that out. symone, can i -- oh, we got her back yasmeen, start again first of all, can i have yasmeen? the second response, does that manage does that help in terms of why these protesters are there and

what they need to hear, what they want to hear, and what they're hoping for >> i think the second response is certainly more encouraging than how many protesters reacted to her initial response in michigan but what they say is that they are doing this because they are, in many cases, open to vice president harris in a way they were not open to president biden, but that rhetoric and empathizing with palestinian suffering is not enough for them they want to see her have a real change in policy the protests, i think, are as much about protesting the war in gaza, protesting the u.s. support of israel's war there, as much as it is about trying to apply pressure to vice president harris to meet some of the demands a number of these groups have laid out for her. the protests were already planned under president boiden it's just continuing, even though kamala harris is the candidate now. >> yeah. the first response, while it might have been a little jarring, it is a question.

i mean, donald trump or kamala harris, what's the better option if you're looking for solutions on either sides there? i mean, was that a point well-taken, or is that -- are we never going to see that again? >> it's a great question i think the party is split on this obviously, she got a very enthusiastic response at the michigan rally when she responded that way, so there is, of course, a big contingent of the democratic party that feels, you know, look, these are our two options. obviously, kamala harris is going to be much better than donald trump but for the people who are very angry about u.s. support of this war, particularly people who have been directly impacted, a lot of the story i did focused on this community of palestinians right outside chicago. they just don't feel like it's enough given the death toll, given the conditions in gaza, they need to see some sort of tangible policy change for them to feel like kamala harris has earned their vote. >> "the washington post"

yasmeen, thank you very much symone, i'll end this block on you. i'm curious how you think this is going and if it can last. the trump campaign and trump himself, he foe cuses on grievance, slandering people, mocking people we saw that over the weekend yet, i've been following the trump team's efforts to spoil what's going on on the harris/walz side whether it's going after walz for his service. okay, bone spurs has anyone in the trump family even served in immigration they can't really go there because donald trump held back the strongest immigration legislation, put together in part by the most conservative republican, he held it back. crowd sizes. kamala's are huge. trump's are smaller. he doesn't like that they accuse kamala and walz of ch changing on issues jd vance hated donald trump. donald trump was a democrat.

i believe might have even supported kamala harris financially, as well, maybe with a contribution or two. finally, dirty gossip. i mean, really someone who is found liable for sexual assault and a judge in that case saying it was tantamount to rape, along with all the other things just a picture of trump hanging out with jeffrey epstein is like the ultimate clap paback it seems the trump campaign is giving the harris campaign a platform for authentic and joyful clap backs. >> yes, mika, you just brought the receipts, as the young people would say and i appreciated them but the facts here are very, very important i have heard -- and mara gay makes this point a lot, people also want something to vote for. i think democrats and democratic

voters, independent voters who are leaning towards democrats this cycle, they don't just want democrats to point out all the terrible things about donald trump and not give them a positive vigsion what the harris/walz campaign is doing well they had this positive vision for the future they are, i think, adequately articulating i think we're going to see more policy coming out of that, specific policy proposals over the next week and a half or so we got additional proposals this past weekend one on exempting tips from federal taxes. some more specific contours around harris' border policy if she were to become president not just signing the enforcement bill but creating more pathways to citizenship it's a both/and, not an either/or when it comes to immigration. i don't think donald trump can compete with those again, it'll be close. this is still early.

people need to wait and see. if you don't like what you're hearing from donald trump, if you love what you're hearing from kamala harris, do a little bit more you have to sign up. if you want more from donald trump, i think people, his voters need to hold him accountable. i won't hold my breath, mika. >> yeah. symone sanders townsend, thank you very, very much for coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the reintroduction of kamala harris. one of our next guests says the vice president may seem like an overnight sensation, but harris' moment was years in the making we'll be joined by the author of "time" magazine's latest cover story. first, nbc's keir simmons joins us live from paris after sitting down with french president emmanuel macron to talk about the success of the summer games you're watching "morning joe. we'll be right back. of time, . the hartford has been insuring experienced drivers for generations. many who switch to the aarp auto insurance program

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welcome back the "morning joe. 7:31 a.m what month are we in we're in august. like, kids getting ready for school i mean, it's -- we're getting into the fall. it means only one thing. no, not the election it's the alabama crimson tide coming back to a football field near you while we're talking about sports, the u.s. women's basketball team held off france yesterday to win a gold medal in the final event of the paris

olympics what a way to end. securing the hardware needed for team usa to tie china for the most with 40 u.s. finishes with 126 medals, the third highest ever and most since the 1984 l.a. games. eighth consecutive olympics the u.s. has won the overall medal count. we're just getting a sense of how successful the final weekend of the olympic competition was according to adobe analytics, an average of 19.5 million viewers watched the men's u.s. basketball team take home the gold in a game against france saturday it's the most watched olympic basketball medal game since the salt lake city games in 1996 for somber spe perspective, lets bring in jimmy roberts, who covered his 20th olympic games for the network. the guy is barely 20 years old i don't know how he's done it. [ laughter ]

jimmy, you're a perfect person to talk to you know, armchair warriors like us on this side of the camera who watch the olympics, we've been talking to each other today going, this seemed more special than most olympics it seemed bigger bigger story lines, more moving story lines. you've been to 20 olympics now how does the paris -- how did the paris games compare to all the others you've been to? >> joe, just let me start by quoting audrey hepburn, who said, paris is always a good idea it starts with paris it's just such an extraordinary place. i think you really have to start there. and you just talked a little bit about the viewership you know, i think there are probably those watching who may scoff at what i'm about to say next, but we as a network got it

right. we made it available wherever and whenever people wanted to watch, and they came in droves that combined with some extraordinary story lines, we were talking before about the women's basketball team, you know, there were so many great stories. whether it was women's basketball or katie ledecky or, for me, the single, biggest individual story was leon mar chm marchand, who won four individual gold medals that's only been done three times previously, and two of the guys were spitz and phelps that's good company. extraordinary performance from him. he was embraced. there was a joyousness to these olympics there was a lot about it that was just very, very cool, you know >> very, very cool i'll tell you, also very cool about how the host country was actually won over. we were talking earlier, there

was a "washington post" article quoting a poll that ipsos took at the beginning of the games. one out of three french people were excited about the games most were angry, upset, bitter, annoyed. by the end, they were swooning over their french team, over the fre festivities. many who went on vacation to escape the olympics rushed back in boy, what an incredible story they had to cheer on and the u.s., as well. let's talk about some of the story lines that moved you, and let's start with katie ledecky. >> you know, i think my favorite statistic from the olympics is that in the 1500 meters, katie ledecky hasn't lost that race since the obama administration that would be the first obama administration she was in junior high school the last time she lost that race i mean, she's just so dominant

she's an extraordinary athlete the winningest, you got it there on the graphic, the most decorated female american olympian ever. she's such a gracious, young woman. everything about her is terrific she goes about it the right way. she was out watching a stanford teammate compete in golf from switzerland. there's just -- she's a likable woman. she's a stud so she was a great story the other story that i love is i always think in covering sports that the hardest thing to do is to win when you're supposed to win. because there's really only one option, and that's what simone biles did. also katie ledecky there were a number of other examples but simone biles, after the narrative of tokyo, and you've covered that, i mean, there was a lot of pressure on this young woman. she came through in flying colors

i just think that there is something so appealing about that that's why we watch these games. i mean, we watch the olympic games for the scores it's a game of numbers, right? so there are more than 1,000 medals happened out, and it's all about times, distances, weights, and measures. for me, over the years, the thing that has always been most appealing to me is the narrative, the humanity of it. there's no better story than simone biles' story. what she had to overcome, you know, what the popular narrative was about her, you know, and what she did in the end. again, incredibly gracious i just think that's why we watch. that's why the olympics are so enduring, because of the humanity of it. >> incredible stories. the men's basketball team. incredible story with the women's basketball team. brittney griner weeping. i don't know how anybody could see that, knowing all the hell she's been through, the journey

she's been on, without being moved by that. and noah lyles we could go on and on. i do want to circle back, though, to something you said. nobody has ever a i ccused me of being a company man. i take great pride in that so i just want to underline what you said about nbc because this is -- this was, i thought, a historic week i've always been obsessed with the media, where we've gone, sort of post tv, post global village, what happens when tv collides with the internet and now with streaming i was curious at what point those lines would come back together and streaming would be viable on the same week we heard that disney, and i'll talk about another company so it's not a company man thing, that disney finally turned a profit on streaming, we actually saw streaming come of age on peacock and with the nbc events. because, and i know this, this is like politics

people are like, how do you know such and such is going to happen because i can't get away from it when i go out to eat or take my kids to baseball games, whatever, everybody is talking about something. i walked into five, six, seven different homes of friends over the olympics, and their kids, i define anybody as a kid under 30, their kids were watching streaming on peacock i thought, huh okay, this thing is a time that's come. i think you're exactly right talk about that. talk about how in this splintered media age, these olympic games weirdly, like, somehow succeeded in bringing the global village together again, to borrow that old mass com phrase. >> i think back. i think we're at a point in time like we were when i remember coming out of college. i remember coming out of college

in the big east in basketball, enormously popular there was patrick ewing, chris mullen we wanted to watch the big east basketball every night on espn but espn back then wasn't basic cable. so there was tremendous anger back then about, we should be able to see this well, if you want to see it, you've got to be able to have espn i think we're in an inflection point similar to that time this is just kind of the evolution of the way things are working in terms of our consumption patterns and i think, you know, again, getting back to it, joe, it's -- listen, there's no way to get around this. we did a good job. i think we really, really did a good job. >> yeah. >> and i think that all of the options that you had, this is what people had been yelling out for. it's like, let me see it live. let me see it live nbc, for many years, needed to protect primetime because that's where we were able to recover

our investment but i think that there are ways to kind of skin the cat and kind of satisfy everybody i think, look, there's no getting around it, getting back to it, we did a good job, gave people what they wanted. i always say this, people oftentimes get angry with what's on television. i say, look, television is a reflection of what the public wants. because if it's not working, it won't be there it's just not a viable model financially. this, i think, to your point, was where the two lines crossed. >> all right nbc sports reporter jimmy roberts. let me say, in around the horn style, you get extra points for quoting audrey hepburn from "sabrina." final word. >> i was going to say this, i need to get out of here and say, are you feeling pretty good about your crimson tide with the new coach? >> you know, i actually am one of the reasons i'm feeling

foo good, nick saban picked them third. he was poking his former team, as nick saban would do, i think. secondly, he's given his successor a little bit of breathing room a lot of people said, it's a terrible thing for him to do what, you want nick saban to say they should win the national championship, then put more pressure on deboer i was worried about deboer because i'm such an s.e.c. purist i said, if you haven't coached in the s.e.c., you can't coach in the s.e.c he's attracting a lot of talent. people were afraid people would run away from the crimson tide he's recruiting a lot of talent coming in, and he is recruiting really well. my two best alabama scouts, two of my sons say deboer is the real deal. what do you think? >> i don't think there is any doubt about it i do think the offense is going to look a little different, but i think in a very, very exciting way. listen, i think personally, this

may be sacrilegious, but college football is still the best sport there is. >> oh, yeah. >> i don't love where they're heading with the playoff because i think it devalues the regular season to a certain extent i think, you know, college football had it right for a long, long time. the entirety of the fall was the playoffs i hate to see us moving in that direction with this expanded playoff to the extent that we're going, but it's still the best sport there is. >> i completely agree with you i mean, alabama has been on the wrong side of the poll ss a lotf times with notre dame jumping 87 spots. i remember 1977 still. but at the same time, i've got friends that i'm still fighting with as far as playfully on who got into the playoffs this last time and whatever. i agree with you, making this more like march madness, i think, adds something but also takes away something, as well. and i do hope they can figure out what to do as far as the

payment goes, so maybe they get a base payment for division i players, give them health insurance. it's not just sort of a highest bidder deal because that'd be deeply unfair to moderate-sized teams. i'm being told i have to go. jimmy, can you come back if we talk college football sometime soon, very soon? >> any day, joe. >> all right thank you so much. jimmy, greatly appreciate it. joining us live from paris is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons keir, keir listen, i don't gamble. >> hey. >> but if i gambled, after the last month, i would take macron to a casino and say, dude, you tell me where to put the chips he put an existential gamble on french knocdemocracy, then he wn

then he set up a government coalition nobody thought he'd be able to set up then struck gold with these olympic games. even the most cynical frenchman, frenchwoman walked away from this thinking, my god, we have something to be proud of in this country. french don't say that often. >> yeah. well, you're right, joe. not to be a party pooper, but one, small point, i guess. the french political divisions will come back >> yes. >> they haven't gone away for macron however, however, he wanted to talk to us when he sat down with us yesterday, and some other international networks, he wanted to talk to us about audacity in the closing ceremony, you had tom cruise leaping from the stade de france. that's a picture of audacity then you have macron saying, listen, this olympics was a lesson in audacity by the way, and you know this well, joe, in politics, you need

to have vision and be brave. you also need some luck. macron reflected on that first opening ceremony day when there were attacks on the rail lines, and it was driving rain. he says now, people were desperate. people were saying, we're really worrying at that moment. but, again, he feels it's a lesson in audacity in this interview, i mean, it is an interview where he takes a bow, right i asked him about his best moments. >> obviously, the opening ceremony was a great moment. i have a lot of memory, and the fact we did convert something great for the world. and we made it and we make it iconic all together >> i thought you might say hanging out with jimmy fallon. [ laughter ] >> i think it was part of it >> macron and jimmy fallon, just one of those iconic moments, at

least, i guess jimmy, of course, hosted the closing ceremony yesterday and spent more time with macron. yeah, incredible mix of celebrity and politics and, really, in a way, perhaps that only the french are able to do. >> keir, you also spoke to president macron about the u.s. elections this november. what did he have to say about that >> yeah. yeah, you know, the party over politics comes back. i mentioned in the beginning with joe yeah, listen, it's not easy, inevitably, to get a world leader, particularly a u.s. ally, to talk about an american election so what i asked him was about how closely people will be watching take a listen. >> no need to see that this vote is very important for europe and for the rest of the world. we are fragmented, divided by a lot of fears, by a lot of tensions, but if you are

ambitious, if you have audacity, if at the same time you have respect for everybody to give the right place, there is a path there is a way and the message is so much powerful >> that message, mika and joe, of fraternity from the olympics, you can see a guy there hoping that that gets carried forward again, i guess you could call it audacity again, whether or not people will be listening, but certainly people were watching around the world nfor these games. >> nbc's keir simmons reporting live from paris. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it coming up, kamala harris is set to be featured on the cover of "essence" magazine. the president and ceo of essence ventures joins us with a look at her interview with the vice president before harris rose to

the top of the democratic ticket and the issues at stake for voters this november "morning joe" will be right back

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welcome back to "morning joe. it's 52 past the hour. a live look at the white house vice president kamala harris is gracing her first magazine cover since becoming the democratic party's presidential nominee "es "essence" magazine has released the cover of its september/october issue. the story features vice president harris' sitdown during last month's essencefest the discussion is from before she took the reins of the presidential election. but in it, she touches on the stance of several pressing issues, including the supreme court, abortion access and

former president trump joining us now, president and ceo of "essence" ventures, caroline wanga she interviewed the vice president at essence fence and alfonso david. good to have you both with us. caroline, set the scene for this interview. you conducted it before she actually became the democratic nominee, or endorsed by the president to be so >> mika, hold on one second. >> yes >> do you notice what she is wearing? >> thank you, joe. >> she is wearing the same outfit -- i wear that outfit every christmas eve. my kids have gone crazy. i have the love across >> appreciate our business out there. this is between me and you, joe. me and you >> yes >> this was for you. >> i appreciate it >> justice is what love looks

like >> that's where the love is. >> you knew that, joe. >> in fairness to mika, i was going to tell everybody about you and joe. we have now, joe >> let me tell you something let me tell you something. one can do far worse than following the lead of brother cornell. a lot worse than that. >> when we commissioned an outfit, he said it >> of course why do you think i wear it every christmas eve. and now, mika knows what i'm doing. >> i say easter. >> exactly exactly. mika, we'll let you go ahead now. >> i think you look amazing, caroline i actually, i had trouble seeing in the boxes i -- now, i see it i see it it's fabulous.

>> thank you you rock it way better than joe does >> you should see him on christmas. >> i always wonder where he goes okay set the scene for this interview, if you could. you hit on consequential issues with the vice president. >> yes here's the thing we have a series at "essence" called chief-to-chief. and it was developed to help over 30 million black women that looked to us for inspiration and understanding to find the chiefs in themselves. we feature women that are in chief positions and v.p. harris was wonderful enough to give us do hers at the festival. and chief-to-chief is to find the chief within themselves. she did talk a lot about what she was looking to do in office then and now, we also know that what was more important about that setting, and if you were there live, your goosebumps got

goosebumps, the way this community galvanized the energy and moment that means there will never be a day again when there hasn't been a black woman vice president. and we did a conversation that everyone can find themselves in their story. we did that live at essence festival at the end of the global black economic forums summit we had a packed room and we streamed it to a number of places and conveniently, at the time that biden announced he was stepping down, we were able to release that and have the community continue to celebration what she represents. and now, ale celebrate her and s historic moment. you cannot be that and be on the "essence" cover. we made sure this "essence" cover happened we welcome her into the "essence" cover girl community

that's the subscribers issue that will come out on the 26th we haven't had this moment in history. it's important not to have it out there. the interview is in the magazine and then, the cover she has is wonderful around the undeterred right and unwavering that connects to our sister that said, unbought, unbossed intentional. >> caroline, what i think people need to understand essence fest is the largest gathering of blacks annually. more than just blacks come everybody comes. you can't get -- you can't check the end of the year without coming to essence fest you put me on the stage, alfonso. and not only did kamala harris did cheek-to-cheek you did the night that the hip-hoppers were to make sure the young people came. talk about the cultural impact talk about what you did, richly

saved us all you have become a cultural phenomenon, to expand "essence" reach. >> i appreciate the honor you guys give. and i talked about it. this cultural artifact that we call essence, belongs to the black community. it's what told us we have the right to exist in for over five de decades, right in this particular moment for "essence" what we are doing is what "essence" did for black women in the 50 years before now. and that is, all of the work "es "essence" did of black women telling the story of great things has the ceos of home community. they operate in that way that is not stating that other members of community are not active when her neck turns, as does the community, and the world we've seen that in multiple places in this era of es "essence" beg

on the stake, and attendance, not just black, we gave an opportunity to create cultural generations together and we gave the understanding that the collective power on our behalf, they are obligated to activate, that we can'ontinue to be represented in the right way it was wonderful for her to say hi >> at the superdome. >> at the superdome, on a friday night. it's wonderful that we put her in other places like the chief-to-chief and the global black economic forum up here at the end of the day, here's what's true about "essence" it told us what our power is in the world and always will. any engagement that doesn't involve the black woman is incomplete because we are the ceos of home culture and community. >> it also tried to get out the expression of voting rights. we heard about that in the 2020 campaign it hasn't been that much in the

headlines in the 2024 campaign how much of an issue is it and how are you getting to your voters to inform them of their rights are and overcome suppression there might be >> this continues to be an issue in this country, unfortunately we just look at the state of georgia, that recently passed rela legislation, that challenged a citizen's right to vote without any evidence what we are doing with the global black forum, is to engage in voter education, voter mobilization, and voter protection we want to make sure you have resources available to you, working directly with the lawyers committee for civil rights we want the resources available. we want to educate the community about the issues that affect them directly. mobilize them to vote and provide the resources for them >> tell us about the ongoing

paint the polls black effort >> we launched an initiative paint the polls. paint the polls generally, specifically black people need to understand the obstacles that we confront as people of color in this country. and we want to make sure they can understand and mobilize all of the resources that exist. that's why we are doing this initiative we held a town hall a few weeks ago. we had thousands of people joining us remotely. we're doing additional town halls over the course of the next few weeks and months. and the goal is to make sure we have the information, we have the resources, we can mobilize and we can vote. many states are making it difficult for us to vote when they show up, we want them times" had the top of the new

site, the challenge of getting all black men, getting enough black men behind kamala harris for her to win, suggesting that somehow black men were going to be challenged by the idea of voting for a black woman i thought it was quite a headline and quite a story to be posting in august. i'll give you a crack at it. it was at the top of "the times" yesterday. >> i appreciate that we need conflict i appreciate that we need news i can tell you that black men are supportive of kamala harris. the black men we engage with and "essence" is traditionally a women's enterprise but more than 30% of the audience are men so, those men actually support kamala harris and importantly, when we break down the issues, when we talk about the economy, when we talk about health care, when we talk about access to resources, we talk about access to capital, they know that

kamala harris has a better chance than anyone else for running for the president of the united states. more and more black men and people, are clear of who they are supporting in this election. >> can i add something we have to pay attention, joe, with your comment, is over time, when we look at what happens between the black community and mainstream, the first thing they try to do is divide the black men and women. they try to divide us. in addition to what my colleague alphonso is, we support each other. we can play in the media, about whether we're separated. that's a game we have known for de decades. we stand together, and engage together, as black men and women on behalf of our community >> it's fascinating that every four years, we hear the same stories. >> ya think? >> especially the age of donald trump. oh, trump is going to get 20%,

25% of the black vote. trump is going to get -- i've been spun year after year about how he has this special magic with black men the numbers just haven't played o out. they didn't play out in '16. they didn't play out in '20 he's not been anywhere with republican numbers in the past >> let me give you a news flash. every black man entered this world from a black woman >> come on come on. and every black woman brought them forth >> "essence" magazine featuring kamala harris. president and ceo of es pen president and ceo of es pence ventures, caroline wanga and alphonso david thank you for being on this

morning. and the third hour of "morning joe" continues right now >> hello, arizona. wow. hey -- yeah wow. well you might have seen a few people showed up in philadelphia the other night. and then, 10,000-plus walked into a field in western wisconsin. and then, on wednesday, the largest crowd of the campaign showed up in detroit, michigan

but arizona couldn't leave it alone, could you wow. it's not as if anybody cares about crowd sizes or anything. >> vice president nominee, tim walz, poking the bear just a bit in his rally we've seen thousands of supporters show up for the new democratic ticket since their debut last tuesday in philadelphia wow. >> look at the numbers i mean, mika, look at the numbers. the philadelphia bit, i remember when we first studied and it first came out feels like two weeks ago it was huge. and the wisconsin seemed to be bigger detroit was mammoth.

glendale had reports of 15,000 people there more than barack obama had in his 2008 campaign. and then, the vegas show last night. and let's just say what it is. these are, like -- these have transcended politics and gotten into popular culture they just have it's something we talked about before we talked about with barack obama. we talked about how it happened in 1980 with ronald reagan you have people talking about these things like they're rock shows, like taylor swift events. people talk, asking if their parents, younger people that are interested asking their imporparents. i heard several times, cdo you think we can get into one of these events people that have been republicans their entire life and worked as republicans on the hill, talking about driving five

hours with friends to go to these events it's going to be one of the great challenges for republicans. and for the trump/vance team, to try to figure out how -- how to slow down this momentum. right now, it just seems day in and day out, to keep getting more powerful by the day unfortunately, for republican strategists, donald trump is doing the opposite of what they want him to do quickly, i'll just read this this is from the "new york times. talking about over the past couple weeks mr. trump has questioned miss harris' racial identity. and he attacked brian kemp, the republican governor in georgia he put him behind harris in several key states and mark halperin reporting that

numerous campaign contributorses spent trump on his western money swing, were shaken about his crowd size and election stealing to the exclusion that he might win back the white house and of course, everybody was talking as we get to this, mika. this from halperin's newsletter this morning taking the cake online, halperin writes was it truly politically worse than claiming 2020 was stolen and celebrating the january 6th accusation, that kamala harris used a.i. to generate a fake crowd at her michigan rally. an accusation so unhinged, writes halperin, that i can barely type this paragraph a charge so fundamentally ludicrous that stephen king himself at first thought, it

must be a joke >> right the post is really -- it deserves a place of its own in the conversation coming up, we'll get to that we'll have to read through it. you make a great point it's just hard to believe. that is how much kamala harris' crowds have gotten to him. meanwhile, the vice president is trying to flip the script on the issue of immigration, putting the blame for the problems at the borders, squarely on the former president he told republicans to not go with the best deal they could ever get on immigration. and former san francisco mayor willie brown is questioning donald trump's memory after trump claimed the two rode in a helicopter together, that brown says never happened. and now, it was a different man that trump was thinking of

supercringe-worthy with us, we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lamere. special correspondent, katty kay is with us host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharp is here and the writer of "how the right lost its mind" charlie psych sykes with us. a lot to get to, joe a lot of movement of the harris/walz campaign across the country, also in the polls >> of course jonathan lamere, we can talk about the polls, that have always trended trump took a sharp turn over the last week now harris in the three key industrial states, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin.

a dramatic shift that's something that donald trump is seeing. and there you see again, all three states and the numbers inside the numbers are even more surprising how quickly, how dramatically things have changed. you look at the numbers and the numbers inside the numbers you are reminded what the americans have been telling us for the past four years. they do not want -- they did not want a repeat of 2020. and so, they don't have a repeat of 2020. you look at the numbers. first of all, really quickly, the economy. we haven't seen the economy that close in several years it's just a six-point gap. obviously, on abortion, kamala harris well ahead there. immigration, only five points. you know, it's fascinating i think if they continue the argument, harris/walz continue the argument she put forward in arizona, you're going to see

those numbers tighten up even more she has a winning argument because it happens to be the truth. donald trump killed the strongest border protection bill in the last 30 years for political reasons. let's start with the big picture. kamala harris is doing well in the polls for now. it's only august we said when it was only july, only june -- it's only august. things don't get real until the end of september and people start to vote. it's only august she is doing well right now. there's two sides to this coin not only is she doing well, and doing far better than i think most anybody expected her to do. donald trump, according to his supporters, his staffers, doing worse. doing everything they begged him not to do.

he is talk about january 6th this report the fund-raising and everything else. near meltdown with fund-raisers because he was talking about crowd sizes. you can go back to his first day as president of the united states, what he did there. harris doing well on one side. donald trump doing everything his staff does not want him to do on the other side and we got to say, i was with stephen king, when i read the truth social post about her crowds being fake. i said, sure i'm not going to fall for this one. i was sure it was a fake post. in fact, i remained sure it was a fake post for several hours, until we got confirmation. this is truly -- i'm going to

quote halperin here. politically worse than claiming 2020 was stolen and politically worse than celebrating january 6th. this accusation more unhinged than that. and a lot of people are there. republicans who are threatfrettg that he is getting worse at the very worse time for republicans. >> completely disconnected from reality. let's do big picture the democratic side. what a successful born barnstor tour for kamala harris this is a deal that was on the table, author by one of the most conservative republicans in the senate, lankford of oklahoma, and donald trump hit it for political gain if she can hit that message, the polls will close i don't think democrats think

they are going to win on the issue of immigration maybe not on the economy if they can mitigate the dow jones. trump's advantage in those categories shrunk from the lead he had over president biden, that's significant and we have seen now, we talk about trend lines on the show all the time and polling those three states, wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan they're within the margin of error. they are close but the trend is towards harris, in recent weeks. the vice president at this point, throwing the equivalent of a no-hitter in the first two weeks of her campaign, hoping to keep that going with the democratic convention next week. she will have obstacles in front of her, no doubt right now, she's on a roll george conway, not on a roll donald trump, who is imploding there's been terrific reporting over the weekend "the new york times" had a great story. i have been talking to sources who back up what joe was saying, how the republicans are freaking out because trump can't stay

focused. unhinged news conference fund-raisers, where he is giving private remarks, talking about crowd size doublinge ing down on attacks oe vice president's identity. i have truth social. and i triple-checked it to make sure it was a real post on his site and it was it was real. norj, we know, donald trump is so rattled on crowd sizes, he is take up with the fever swamps on the right and elevating it and maybe even believing it, it reeks of desperation >> i've been yammering about for five or six years, he is a deeply unwell man. he is a deeply disturbed individual if he were a member of your family, you would be taking him -- staging an intervention and taking him into a psychiatric hospital and if melania and ivanka and

eric and don jr. tcare about their father, and i sassume the do, they would be doing that if they could he is a narcissistic socialopat, as defined by the psychiatric association. and it is an implosion i this, i believe, is what ultimately was always going to happen the final implosion of donald trump. i mean, it's like hitler when hitler was moving around divisions that didn't exist in the last ten days of the war in the fuhrer bunker. he has lost it this post is onquestion delusional it was inevitable. he realizes -- he realized he is under more pressure than ever. he's not just running for the presidency he's running for his freedom

he is going to go to jail if he does not win the presidency. and he can see that now. and that's why he is doubling down on the unreality of -- it's partly for self-soothing he can't help it, he's a pathological liar being a sociopath. we are watching -- we're going to make fun of it because it helps provoke him into self-destruction but it's very, very sad. >> well, i would say, charlie sykes, you don't have to have george conway's point of view. you don't have to be voting against donald trump to look at what happened this weekend and not be horrified that is, the reporting republicans absolutely horrified at a time they need him to act rationally, to push back hard against kamala harris. he's going in the direction they

believe is the most destructive. you can go back as "the new york times" summarized in the last week and a half, it's been terrible for him first, he questioned whether kamala harris was black or not laughable for a woman who was in a historically black sorority at howard university and has identified as a black woman her entire life. and he goes to georgia not only does he insult the popular republican governor of georgia, but he insults brian kemp's wife, which enrages republican women the succession at fund-raisers that is unnerving his biggest supporters he wrote a letter. i'm sure you saw this, one of his biggest contributors insulting her, the widow of sheldon adelson, scaring some

campaign workers into believing she won't contribute to him in the future now, he is coming forward with an a.i.-generated stuff. so, republicans are fearful that he's doing the exact opposite of what he should do. this morning, "the wall street journal" editorial page is suggesting his attacks kamala harris on health care. i don't -- with all due respect to "the wall street journal" editorial page, i don't think that's going to stem those 15,000-person crowds i must say, were i a republican strategist right now, i wouldn't know exact ly what tact to take this is so reminiscent, how we republicans were feeling in the run-up to the 2008 election. there was a freight train going 200 miles per hour and republicans had no idea how to stop it. >> yeah. and if only they had been

warned and then, by the way, as we are watching this decomposition meltdown by donald trump, notice that not a single prominent republican is looking at this and saying, hey, you know, let's get off this train this is deeply wrong let's go in a different direction or change my vote. they are there completely locked in i also agree with you, what is rattling donald trump is that this has become a cultural phenomenon and not simply a political phenomenon i want to go back to what george was saying yes, it is sad and we can make fun of it. it is alarming but it's also profoundly dangerous what is going on you look at that insane tweet. it's not just that he's going down this rabbit hole of fever swamp conspiracy theories. these using this as a way to say the democrats are cheating that kamala harris should be

disqualified this is pre-election denialism by donald trump. it's no mystery, donald trump is never going to concede defeat in this election. he's already laying the groundwork for what's going to happen after november. and i think this is going to be an extraordinarily dangerous period he has election deniers in key states his base is psychologically not prepared for him to lose and as george mentioned, this is a desperate man. donald trump knows that if he is not elected president, he may be going to jail. he will do and say anything. you see in that tweet, not merely the fact he is rattled and losing it. but that he's already coming up with his lines for why he can deny the results of the election how kamala harris' nomination is unconstitutional how this is being stolen all of that in advance

so, no one should be surprised or think that this fever is going to break on november 5th whatever happens, we are about to head into a very dangerous period in american politics, led by donald trump and obviously, assisted by republicans, who simply have decided they're not going to draw the line coming up, donald trump won montana by 17 points in 2020 why is he campaigning there, instead of the key battleground states we'll talk about that when "morning joe" comes back

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attacked him for his physical appearance here's how it went >> what do you like pbetter crooked joe? sleepy joe

ready? they're both correct i think crooked joe is more correct. ready? crooked first, right what do you like better? crooked joe? or sleepy joe? okay crooked seems to always win. he's a crooked guy all he had to do is think of it. if he didn't do the debate, he would be running one of the biggest phonies in american politics. his name is jon tester and i don't speak badly about somebody's physical disability but he's got the biggest stomach i have ever seen

that's the biggest stomach i've never seen a stomach like that he doesn't look that heavy you're not allowed to say fat. you can say obese. you can't say fat. that's the end of your political career i said it the other night. somebody in the audience, said chris christie is a fat pig. i said, sir, chris christie is not a fat pig. and we argued about it for three or four minutes. that was -- he's not a fat pig >> remember about three weeks ago, when we heard about the new, more mature donald trump, don't have that conversation again. reverend sharpton, it was three weeks ago, we heard the talk about the new, reformed trump. that was the republican national convention that moment, republicans thought they were on a glide path. the glide path, that at the white house, both chambers of

commerce and gop onslaught is what they were looking at. what we're seeing here from donald trump, is someone who has been knocked off balance and has yet to recover and his campaign seems to be getting him out there in front of voters. montana, a competitive senate seat there, that's why he went he hasn't been in a battleground state in over a week there's nothing on the tallinder c the calendar coming up the democrats had the convention last week. and this leads to trump on truth social, posting screens at fake polls and crowd size this is a man you've known for a long time. he's panicked. >> he's not only panicked. donald trump is a narcissist and narcissists are deeply insecure they need validation from external things that would confirm and embellish in their mind, the sense of narcissism that they obsess with.

when he sees the 15,000 crowd going to his opponent, all of these things go to his core insecurity it goes back to his father and how he grew up, not being good enough for his father. all of his worst fears have come into his reality he's become unwinded here. he's become someone that has -- i'm not surprised about it i think the fact that his campaign, people cannot cover for him and cannot shut him down, is probably the only political surprise as far as him saying he was going to be a different person after his assassination attempt, that would happen to normal people i understand of leading a nonviolent march it helped me focus he is more of a narcissist than everything and kamala harris is everything

that invalidates him to himself. and i think it's time for somebody to intervene. i have known him for 40 years. i know donald jr. and eric to some degree. they need to get their daddy he is going to continue to spiral down. coming up, a look at the other stories making headlines, including a big change for u.s. foreign policy, when it comes to arming saudi arabia. that and the latest from the war in ukraine, when "morning joe" comes right back why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold?

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kamala, sometimes referred to as kamala she has nine different ways to pronounce her name and because the press is so dishonest, no matter how you say it, they will say you were wrong. i don't care if i get it right i couldn't careless. katty kay, it makes you wonder where this is going to go it doesn't appear that donald trump is able to flip the script or try to take on a new tone

there's his entire record that proves that that could be problematic. but really, this is -- we're just about to hit the time, less than three months, before the campaign really, people start to focus on who are they going to vote for in the next election and the democrats have really set up the ultimate contrast, haven't they >> yeah. that's frustrating for people around donald trump. i'm getting texts saying there's so much we could go after kamala harris and the walz take icket n we can talk about inflation, the government spending there's been in the biden/harris administration we withcan talk about the borde. they are talk about the policies they would like to see donald trump go on to kamala harris to define her instead, there is the candidate talking about it's unfair that her honeymoon is lasting so long or she is getting positive media coverage and that's unfair. maybe it's unfair that she is on

the ticket at all, that somehow there's something unconstitutional about that, he suggested at one point when you listen to what he is saying about the candidacy at the moment, do you think he is setting himself up for a position in which if he loses in november, he can turn around and say, 2020, the election was stolen from me because they changed the rules around voting because of covid this time, the election was stolen because somehow her candidacy in and of itself was illegitimate >> i absolutely agree. i mean, charlie put it quite well earlier it is profoundly dangerous where he is going this he has done it before. famously, he said, i remember that lesley stahl said, the reason i lie about the media, if you say something about me, i can discredit you before you even say what you're about to say about me he did the same thing in 2020. oh, the ballots, the mail-in

ballots are fraudulent he is doing the same thing again. everything is unfair his narcissism makes him want to play the victim. he cannot lose in a fair fight, is his narcissistic view if he perceives himself to be losing, and he is, on enthusiasm scale and the swing state polls are turning against him, he wants to say the other side is cheating it's a massive form of psychological projection donald trump always accuses the other person, the person opposing him or the person he wants to beat up on, on being exactly what he is and he's calling kamala harris a cheater. a cheater by using a.i. and a cheater by other means and you know, that's his m.o and it's, again, it's this classic psychological profile of the kdeeply disturbed narcissis that he is playing by the book when it's somebody running for

president and has a large, massive falling, of tens of millions of people, it is extremely dangerous to the country and to our democracy >> charlie sykes, we're looking at this remarkable turnaround. the quickest turn around, i've seen in presidential politics in my lifetime. i guess we can compare it to 1988 but kamala harris is not michael due dukakis. and this is the last thing you want to see in your opponent's campaign that something is taking a life of its and moves into the political to pop culture sphere let's circle back and say, if you had a candidate, that you could effectively employ a conservative candidate, and try to stop this momentum, what you are hearing on the ground in

wisconsin, what we are hearing wherever we go, what is the best republican tact? what would the best trump tact be, to slow down this remarkable momentum >> sometimes you can't slow down the momentum there's moments when you have an organ ic shift you can't get that kind of enthusiasm but the frustration from republicans is they have issues to get donald trump to talk about the issues they think that immigration is a powerful issue they think that inflation is a powerful issue they think that some of the comments that have been made in the past by kamala harris and tim walz can be rweaponized they would want to talk about crime and talk about the excessive government spending. but all of that is being drowned out by donald trump's grievances and the craziness.

and what i'm hearing from people is, that as you point out, and we need to keep coming back to, this cultural wave how do you counter that? you've seen this in 2008 maybe in 2006. there's nothing that campaign can do there's nothing you can say, that will blunt something like this and the extraordinary thing about this, is not -- the politics, the joy of politics and optimism, is that -- and this is unusual in american politics incumbent vice president is now running as the agent of change people are exhausted they want to turn the page and i don't know, maybe joe, you can think of a time when a vice president has run for the presidency, when they are the change agent, and that's where kamala harris is at the moment in part, obviously, she represents dramatic change as a

black woman. also because, donald trump is a de facto incumbent because of all of that baggage. we are in a very, very -- a very problematic moment for republicans. they are flailing. >> coming up, what donald trump is saying about tim walz and his party's chances of beating donald trump this november that's straight ahead on "morning joe." that leap in our hearts into something we can see and hold. etsy. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it.

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we're both cool like that. sleep number does that. actively cools and warms on each side. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base. we're going to take a moment to look at some of the other stories making headlines there's a lot happening overseas it's not clear what caused a passenger plane to crash in brazil on friday there's some suspicion that a buildup of ice may have played a role the bodies of 62 victims and the black box recorder families of those affected are

gathering in sao paulo as they await word from authorities. u.s.-made weapons will flow to saudi arabia, starting with an opening shipment ofmunitions. the sale of arms was chosen in 2021, in response to the saudi military campaign in yemen, which included strikes on civilians. the white house, however, has grown closer to the kingdom in recent years, amid an effort to prevent iranian expansion in the region and ukraine continues to march inside russian territory president zelenskyy acknowledged for the first time his military is conducting a cross-border offensive. it's the deepest raid inside the russian federation since moscow began its invasion of ukraine in february of 2022 coming up, donald trump says his campaign has been hacked by the iranian government we'll talk to christopher krebs

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let's take a quick pause from politics for an update from the summer olympics. paris closed out two and a half weeks of world class sports with a star-studded show, and france's national stadium, and host duties were handed over to the site of the next summer games, los angeles it featured actor tom cruise, there he is, descending from the top of stade de france before he roared out of the arena with the olympic flag flying on the back of a motorcycle. and then in a prerecorded segment, cruise drove his bike past the eiffel tower onto a waiting plane. and then as one does, he skydived over los angeles, where he affixed the olympic rings to the hollywood sign oh, yes, the hollywood games, the los angeles games, are

slated to kick off july 14th, 2028 joe, i mean, those games can't get here soon enough, showmanship, tom cruise's showmanship included this wrapped up spectacular games, paris couldn't have been a more perfect host. and the u.s. finished up with a couple more gold medals. >> it is so amazing. every four years i think, all right, this olympics is not going to be like the last olympics i thought the same thing here. i was talking to my kids about it earlier you know, as it was starting, i said, it used to be my mom and dad and brother and sister would all gather around tv, we would all watch the olympics we had some family reunions that were gathered around the olympics and that's what people did. and it's just too bad that doesn't happen anymore a couple of my kids said, well, have you heard about -- they named some athletes i hadn't

heard about, who they found out about on social media. and everybody was back around the tv set or streaming online it was pretty incredible all around this was the most successful olympics ever in so many different ways and the "washington post" had this to say about the host of the event. france's plan for the 2024 olympics was a gamble that was fraught with risks for the most part, the big bets paid off before the games were under way, there were concerns about terror attacks, cyberattacks, crowd crushes, labor strikes, political tensions, heat waves, bed bugs, et cetera, et cetera, and an international polling firm found that only one-third of french citizens were enthusiastic about the olympics. the rest of them were angry. the critics were rushed. paris managed, the "washington

post" writes, to all visitors and viewers with a spectacular venues that would showcase the city's most familiar sites these olympics welcomed spectators back for the first time since the pandemic and the roar of the crowds witnessing athletic feats pumped new energy into the capital some parisians who had left on vacation to escape the olympics returned so they wouldn't miss out. coming up, the new issue of "time" asks, where has this kamala harris been all along we'll break down the new cover story when its authojor ins the conversation when "morning joe" comes right back arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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under the so-called office of harris, illegals are stampeding in, they're coming from prisons, jails. >> i was attorney general of a border state i went after the transnational

gangs, the drug cartels and human traffickers. i prosecuted them in case after case, and i won. >> they're coming from all over the place. they're coming from countries we've never even heard of. most of the people in this room have never hear, they're coming from some bad places, evil places. >> we know our immigration system is broken and we know what it takes to fix it. comprehensive reform that includes strong border security and an earned pathway to citizenship >> every day kamala is letting migrant criminals run free to assault, rape, mutilate and kill our citizens look at what's happening to our cities our cities are being overrun. >> earlier this year, everybody here knows, earlier this year we had a chance to pass the toughest bipartisan border

security bill in decades but donald trump tanked the deal because he thought by doing that, it would help him win an election but when i am president, i will sign the bill. >> vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump both speaking about the issue of immigration in rallies on friday. wow, they have a bit of a counterpoint going on there, joe. what do you think? >> they really do. and it's interesting, donald trump telling supporters that we're concerned over the past couple of days that he wasn't changing his tack. he said, i am who i am and that's causing grave concerns, because what worked for him in 2016, most of his workers, most of his

contributors, donors, don't think that's going to work in 2024 and when you see him using the same lines over and over and over again, and then you see kamala harris' response, it looks kind of like a 1971 alabama football team running the wishbone nothing wrong with that, of course, because they won in 1971 and '72 and '73 and '74. going up against bill walsh's west coast offense i mean, it's the old versus the new. it's the tired versus the exciting you see that in the crowds so he can keep saying the same thing he's been saying for eight, nine, ten years but staying on this football analogy, kamala harris has the game film. she has the game films from 2015, 2016, she knows what he's going to say before he says it

she knows exactly how he responds to a woman candidate. you can see how he handled hillary clinton and what he did with hillary clinton in the debate, the sort of attacks he launched toward her. and he's not going to change he's just not going to change. and he said, i'm not going to change so she's going to be ready at every turn i think the great challenge for the trump campaign will be explaining to their candidate, sir, as he likes people to call him, sir, what worked for you in the past, sir, is not going to work for you in the future and people have tried to tell him that he hasn't listened so i think who wins this campaign will depend on whether he's able to respond to this disruption in a way that's different than how he's responded over the past seven, eight years. >> yeah, and saying that her crowds are ai generated is just going to make her crowds larger.

thousands of supporters showed up out west over the weekend for the new democratic ticket. new polls show kamala harris leading three battleground states nbc news correspondent garrett haake has the very latest. >> reporter: with the democratic national convention just one week away, vice president kamala harris and governor tim walz wrapping up a week-long battleground blitz, rallying a fired-up crowd of 12,000 supporters in las vegas saturday >> we know this will be a tight race until the very end. so let's not pay too much attention to the polls >> reporter: both online and at rallies, former president donald trump has repeatedly accused harris of lying about the size of her crowds. >> they said, oh, she had a big crowd. >> reporter: the harris campaign poking back on social media with a photo of one large crowd, writing trump still has not

campaigned in a swing state in over a week. the former president also pushing a baseless conspiracy theory about president biden. >> i hear he's going to make a comeback at the democrat convention he's going to walk into the room and he's going to say, i want my presidency back. >> reporter: new polling shows harris leading trump in three key swing states, michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin, all within the margin of error over the weekend, the trump campaign said it was hacked by an iranian group in june, and the documents were, quote, obtained illegally from foreign sources. the statement came after politico said it was sent trump campaign documents from an anonymous email account. nbc news has not independently verified the hack. meanwhile, vance is trying to walk back mr. trump's recent comments on abortion, suggesting he's open to banning access to a commonly used abortion pill. >> would you direct your fda to revoke access

>> things that would supplement, absolutely and those things are pretty open and humane. >> reporter: vance says the former president believes that decision should be left up to the states. >> you want to make sure that any medicine is safe, prescribed in the right way and so forth. but the president wants individual states to make these decisions. >> joining us now, we have chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker, nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist, and senior correspondent at "time," charlotte alter, the author of the magazine's new cover story, which takes an inside look at the early stages of vice president harris' campaign jonathan lemire is still with us as well. joe, it's been -- it's sort of hard to imagine that this has only been how many days since kamala harris sort of exploded on the global stage, and started having these rallies it feels like it's been months,

but the change has been almost dramatic it's been dramatic, to say the least. >> dramatic. you look at just -- what was it, the philadelphia rally, when tim walz was announced that seems like a month ago. you look at the assassination attempt, which seems like last year and you look at the -- you think back to the june debate with joe biden. my god, that seems like so long ago. i'm not really good with quotes, but maybe peter can help me. you know, sometimes decades can happen in weeks, sometimes you go decades where nothing happens, and other times decades happen in weeks. that's as close as i can get i can give you all the lyrics

for "tomorrow never knows" but anyway, peter baker, just trying to sort through this donald trump has always been the disrupter. it's always worked for him in his professional career, it's helped him in his media career, political career but now the disruption has actually come his way, and it looks like he's still having a hard time handling that. and i'm not saying donald trump is out we have a long way to go >> no. >> but you start adding up all of the things that have happened you've had this change, you had him surviving an assassination attempt, you had him sitting in a courtroom all summer i can't imagine, even for the youngest and healthiest among us, that that wouldn't have had some impact. and i'm just wondering, watching him talking about joe biden on the stage, hearing him talk about ai fake crowds i know he's done it before, but

he's got everybody on his campaign trying to get him to focus on inflation, the border, the economy, and he's just -- he seems to be unwilling to do it i wonder what the trump campaign does to stop this extraordinary momentum by harris and walz. >> yeah, i think it's obviously disrupting him, it's disrupting his campaign, it's disrupting his mind look, i think you were right to point out, we've heard this before for nine or ten years it's the olden oldies of political arguments he's been making and he doesn't have a new reel and i think that it does risk feeling tired at some point, while she at this point has captured the argument about freshness and newness. she has turned the generational argument against him she is the future, even though she's the incumbent and he's the past and the concerns people had about biden and his age at 81 now flow to trump at age 78.

he is not a new generation figure if you actually watch his rallies any length of time, you'll find it hard to diagram some of the sentences he's trying to say, he obviously has his own issues with age-related cognitive concerns and i think that's pretty obvious. and i think that she is making the argument that we're not going back, capturing the future orientation of this campaign that's what politics is about. it's almost always about change versus more of the same. it's almost always about future versus the past. he needs for his own sake to try to recapture that idea that he somehow is not a creature of the past, but in fact is a change agent. >> charlotte, it reminds me so much of 2008 as republicans were trying to figure out how to stop barack obama and they even resorted to at one point -- it was a great ad, but barack obama is the most famous celebrity in the world, comparing him to

paris hilton that was the best they had again, at the time, i thought it was a pretty darn good ad. but they just fed into the hype. when i start seeing like, for instance, i think the "wall street journal" editorial page talking about how donald trump should attack kamala harris on medicare and on health care, while she's drawing taylor swift size crowds. it might be a slight exaggeration but 15,000 you get a sense that nobody in trump world knows how to land a political hit on her >> well, it's true that trump has never run against somebody who was able to seize the spotlight and the momentum away from him as easily as kamala harris seems to have done in the last three weeks i mean, i was at her

philadelphia rally about a week ago and that crowd was not ai generated, that was a real huge crowd, 14,000 people were there, according to the campaign. and i haven't seen a crowd like that for a democratic candidate in more than a decade. hillary clinton never drew crowds like that, joe biden never drew crowds like that. so i think that she has seized this energy and this momentum and she's ultimately giving the american people the thing they have been overwhelmingly telling pollsters they wanted, which is a credible alternative to biden and trump. nobody wanted this rerun election this was unpopular old men running against each other and a lot of people in the sort of anti-trump movement, which, by the way has over-performed over the last three elections the americans who do not like donald trump have been unusually

successful in the last three elections. and this election was looking to be a very stale, old rematch and a lot of people in the coalition were feeling really, really down in the dumps about it, and then kamala harris gave them something to be excited about. >> so charlotte, let's talk more about your cover story about kamala harris. one of the questions posed, where has kamala harris been all along? we know her 2019-2020 campaign did not go well. she had early stumbles in the vice presidency before finding her voice, particularly about abortion rights. but there were still some in the white house/biden inner circle pushing the president to stay in the race because they didn't think she was up for it. it seems clear that she is talk to us about her evolution >> so it's pretty obvious that even members of her own party seem to have underestimated her political chops, specifically for the reasons you mentioned, that she didn't do so well in 2020 and she had a rocky start

to her vice presidency but it seems from talking to people around her that she has really grown and learned a lot over the last three years of her time as vice president, particularly since dobbs and actually since the dobbs decision, she's taken on abortion rights as a key part of her portfolio. she's been talking about it as a question of reproductive freedom, which as you know is like a cornerstone of her campaign, and she's been traveling the country talking to people about abortion rights and building this list of political allies, people who are on her side as soon as biden dropped out and endorsed her, she had this list ready to go and it allowed her to sew up the nomination and get going on this presidential campaign i think that's one of the reasons that this has gone so well for her over the last couple of weeks. she was able to avert this drawn-out interparty mini primary that some people were

pushing for. she was able to seize the nomination and start making her case to the american people. i also think some of the things that in the past have made her ill-suited to the moment, for example, the fact that she was a prosecutor, it's not such a good fit in 2020. in 2024, she's able to make that part of her campaign, a prosecutor against convicted felons so i think some things that haven't worked so well for her in the past are working for her now. >> john heilemann, the lennon quote, the one i was reaching for before, there are decades it seems as if nothing happens, and there are weeks when decades happen and the change and the speed of t the change for everyone, it kind of goes along with my saying that i've said since i first got into politics 30 years ago, nobody stops you when you're going 90 miles an hour

well, kamala harris and tim walz are going 90 miles an hour the people following them, 90 miles an hour. events racing toward this labor day and the official start of the campaign season going 90 miles an hour. the question is, how does donald trump stop that freight train? >> well, joe, i don't know if it's stoppable it might not be stoppable. it might not be. it could be that this thing, the greatest advantage that kamala harris and tim walz have is how short this runway is and they're moving so fast it takes a certain amount of time to stop any vehicle that's moving 90 miles an hour unless it runs into a wall. and donald trump is not that wall right now it is hard for any of us to keep up with events that are unfolding at this pace imagine how hard it is to keep up with events, let alone react

to them if you are various sides of cognitive decline i want to come back to this. we talked about it on friday, in the context of peggy noonan saying maybe trump is turning into biden we said joe biden was never a pathological liar, conspiracy theorist, he was never a thug in the way that trump is, and all of those things are true the reality is that people are starting to focus -- iheard peter baker mention it in passing and i know he's a close observer, we have been seeing the signs of trump's cognitive decline, his psychological infirmities, we've seen them, but not talked about them loudly, for many months now, really except on this show where you and mika have been consistently calling it out. but it is now in sharp relief in the absence of joe biden, with

joe biden out of the picture, it's in sharp relief, the national media is starting to notice, and the harris campaign clearly is starting to notice. and one of the things they're focused on is not merely that trump gets confused -- he peddles conspiracy theories, is it jerry brown or another african american california politician, who actually apparently was on a white knuckle helicopter ride with trump. imagine what's going on in trump's head as he's trying to keep facts straight, while he's watching harris and walz go past him at 90 miles an hour and he's not doing anything it's an extraordinary thing. you don't run for president by sitting around with your golf club day after day he's not out on the campaign trail. he's not in the battleground states and the harris campaign, you see them picking up on this in subtle ways right now. they put out apress release over the weekend that was noting

how light trump's schedule is, and at the very top it said something like, okay -- it says, okay, get your rest, okay, donald, get your rest. it's like the way you talk to an elderly grandparent or parent who has run out of steam and you asked the question at the top, what do you do about a freight train moving 90 miles an hour if you are a person in donald trump's apparent condition, what do you do is you get run over by it unless you let somebody else run your campaign and really start to do what they're telling you to do. and he seems incapable of that. >> john, i think your point is exactly right. people forget that 50% of voters thought that donald trump was too old to be president. it got overshadowed by the fact that more thought about biden. biden was more visibly affected, he seemed frailer, his physicality, the walk and the low voice drew a lot of

attention to him but that didn't, in fact, mean that there weren't concerns by voters and others about donald trump's issues and i think if you spend a lot of time looking at his speech patterns today compared to even just four years ago, much less 10 or 20 years ago, there is a significant difference and that's, of course, something that kamala harris can take advantage of she now seizes that generational argument, she seizes that youth versus age argument, and they can point to trump's inability to remember things, confusing names and dates and people and all of that, and they can poke at him making fun of him is one of the things that seems to work the best because it gets under his skin he's used to being the master of insult politics, he's very good at it. he's gotten under everybody else's skin for ten years. he mocked and belittled his rivals to the point that they were diminished as a result. they're turning the tables on him, they're trying to at least. >> we'll return to this.

as we heard in garrett haake's report earlier, donald trump's presidential campaign says some of its internal communications have been hacked and suggested iranian actors were involved. for more, let's bring in former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, chris crabbs it's good to have you. first of all, i guess these were vetting papers that got into the hands of a news organization what do we know about any confirmation of what the trump campaign is claiming >> well, i think we need to separate out the hack and the leak for now, at least so what we have is on friday of last week, microsoft issued a report that they had seen some compromise of a presidential campaign a day later, the trump campaign says that they had been hacked, they had been compromised, and they attributed it immediately

to iran. so connecting the dots, it does seem that we have some independent verification that a campaign was hacked, we can assume for now that it was the trump campaign separately, we have politico coming forward and the "washington post" saying we've been approached by someone named robert, using an aol account, saying they had internal vetting documents for j.d. vance as the vice president so it does seem that there is a hack, there is a leak. it is a playbook that's been run before the russians, of course, did this with the dnc back in 2016 so we may be seeing history repeat itself, but potentially a different actor doing it again, we have to make this connection between the hack and leak that's still not there yet. >> right. >> but the fbi is involved and they are chasing it down >> so right now it looks, based on the initial reporting, that it might be iran that did it if they did, it would be, of course, retribution for the killing of soleimani, which iran

suggested that they tried to assassinate donald trump as well i'm curious, one of the things that really surprised me, and actually gave me comfort back during the mueller investigation, is when we got a look at just how much our intel services knew about the russian hack, they knew what town it came from, they knew what military base it came from, they knew, in fact, what computer it came from. i mean, it was just a stunning amount of information our intel community was able to gather do you suspect that will be the case eventually if this is, in fact, an iranian hack? would it be the case -- are we that far ahead of everybody else, we're going to be able to figure out where it came from? >> i think the unfortunate answer right now is it's too

soon to tell so the majority of the information that's coming out on this specific hack and potential leak is coming from private sector sources it seems the trump campaign runs on microsoft cloud email infrastructure, so microsoft is in the best position right now to know what has happened within the trump campaign and to see what information was accessed and then potentially exfiltrate it separately, you have the media outlets receiving the emails and information from this so-called robert individual. the fbi, intelligence community may not have any insight into a hack and potential leak. now, down the road we may get more we may have intelligence partners in 2016 we had a significant network of european intelligence partners that were sharing information, and even in 2020 when the iranians tried to muck around in the 2020 election, we had intelligence partners sharing information. so it's too early to tell. there will be additional

information forthcoming, i assume you've got to think about this like an iceberg. we're just seeing the part above the water. i think that is going to come forward in the future. and one more thing to think about, we're just hearing about the trump campaign right now do we know if the biden or harris campaigns have been targeted as well those are questions that i would be asking right now. >> all right, former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, chris krebs, thank you very much for coming on this morning. and charlotte, before we close, just want to come back to your cover story it's been a week or so and there are less than three months to go it, in some ways, is a very short amount of time but there's a lot of time still for things to change and i wonder, looking ahead to debates, in-depth interviews, the democratic national convention, where do you think

the biggest challenges for kamala harris will be? >> i think you're exactly right. she's off to clearly a very strong start, but there's still a lot more in this campaign. she does need to start doing some in-depth interviews on both television and in print. she does need to dominate trump in the debate. and i also think -- i've talked to people around her who have described the last few weeks as a sort of sugar high, and there's a real question as to how long that sugar high will last, how much of these crowds that she's drawing, how much of those are hard core democrats who are always going to vote for a democrat, they just now are more excited about it, versus how many of them are swing voters so i think that's one of several challenges ahead of her, is convincing the more moderate, more independent voter that she is not too liberal to speak to their concerns >> the new cover story "her

moment" is online now. senior correspondent for "time," charlotte alter, thank you very much for coming on this morning. john heilemann, and chief white house correspondent, peter baker, thank you both as well. coming up, harris may have played a starring role during the summer olympics, but the biggest winner may have been streaming. we'll dive into peacock's success at the games with cnbc's andrew ross sorkin and tom rogers next on "morning joe. at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable you'll wish you had more vist bombas.com and get 20% off your first order hi, my name is damian clark. and if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some

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welcome back good morning, joe. hope you guys are having a wonderful monday the new numbers show the olympics were gold for streaming, as more fans tuned into peacock to watch the game, led by the digital platform, which reported more than 20 billion minutes of paris olympic coverage being streamed just through last thursday. that's more people than streamed jonathan lemire every morning. before the final weekend of competition closing ceremony, the numbers were up 21% from all prior summer and winter olympics combined let's bring in columnist for "the new york times" and editor at large at "newsweek" and cnbc founder, tom rogers. so obviously the olympics, such a huge sport story, such a huge cultural story but, andrew, a huge media story,

too, because, you know, every media outlet has been looking for that moment when streaming starts to suggest that it can match the promise of the old sort of linear tv approach and last week i noticed you had this extraordinary news on how successful peacock had been streaming these olympic games. at the same time, disney reported for the first time that they made a profit on streaming, something that a lot of media companies thought never, ever would have happened. i'm wondering, is this the beginning of an era where streaming starts to suggest there is a way forward for these big media companies? >> i think this may be the inflection point, at least for some of the streaming services, disney being one, and i think peacock being the other. peacock is really going to be led, at least for now, by

sports and the real question that we're all going to be watching is, can you not just hold on to the subscribers that came for the olympics, but can you actually grow that audience one of the strategies that our parent company has clearly gone after is getting more rights you're going to see a big football game that's going to be exclusive to peacock on september 6th, so you might get a whole new group of people subscribing for that and then, of course, this new nba deal doesn't kick in for a year but obviously you're going to have a rotating cast of different sports and then, on top of that, you layer in different dramas and comedies and other things and you hope to keep the subscribers. having said that, it's not going to be a win for everybody. i think there's still big questions about warner bros. discovery and its max service, there's still questions about paramount and questions about long-term whether there needs to be consolidation and then one other piece, and i

would be curious what tom thinks -- >> can you stop you right there for a second you talked about something that we haven't discussed but warner bros. discovery last week taking a real plunge, going down again because of a write-down on tv stations. this all goes together you talk about the nba, you talk about other sporting events. those events are being taken off of cable networks and being moved to streaming platforms so these sports events, we always talk about the nfl, 91 out of the top 100 shows on tv last year, nfl games sports is where it's at. so if you're moving it from cable network over to streaming platforms, that's going to cause political earthquakes, or media earthquakes. >> huge political earthquakes.

and the question for warner bros. discovery, whether they're able to maintain the carriage fee. how much money are cable providers, including comcast, going to pay for tnt in the future that is the fundamental question being asked today in wall street and the marketplace. and that's beyond just the valuations of these things that took place last week that's the sort of going forward question they would say, by the way, they've added lots of other sports, talking about sports, to tnt, so they hope to maintain, if not grow that feed. but tom rogers may have a very different view i don't know. >> we've been talking for a while how streaming was the future but not the present yet certainly with this olympics, we've taken one more giant step toward the future, and then, of course, there's the winter olympics and milan in '26 and we're thinking about l.a. in '28 where it seems like streaming will be the center for that. so give us your read here as to what you've seen out of these last couple of weeks how can that inform how we view the streaming platform going

forward? >> well, peacock nailed it and hats off to them i go back to the 1992 barcelona olympics i was in charge of the so-called olympics triple cast, the first time nbc tried to go beyond the broadcast network and create three pay-per-view channels where people could see almost everything it cost $100 to get and it was really hard to find. and it may have taken 30 years, but peacock couldn't have done it better. amazing that they had 329 live medal events, plus gold zone i think you're right, this was an olympics where broadcast was still center stage, but heavily enhanced by streaming. in l.a. '28, that is going to be a streaming dominant olympics, given the fact we're already below 50% of households having the cable bundle by four years from now, i think it will be considerably lower. >> tom, one of the big questions

for these streamers, and you've been looking at these numbers for a long time, the reason they got to a profitable level or at least break even, they've reduced spending on programming by a lot and the question is whether there's enough new programming on these stations not just to grow the subscriber base, but frankly, even to maintain some of their subscriber base. >> it's a great point because it's clear sports is not only critical for traditional linear television, it's critical for building a streaming service so you see this huge bidding up of sports rights nba being the latest example but in retrospect, the deal that nbc cut for the olympics looks like a tremendous value, given that they get to dominate three weeks of television here for what is well less than half of what an annual nba fee is going to be for nbc. i think what it causes, though,

to your point, is for other forms of programming, namely entertainment programming, probably to be cut back. yet you have the streaming leaders, netflix, pouring enormous amounts of money into entertainment programming, introducing 92 new seasons of programming every quarter compared, say, to disney+ or max at about 14 or 16 new shows a quarter. that's a huge entertainment advantage. but, nonetheless, they all have to drive advertising, and even netflix going into christmas day nfl programming realizes to get its advertising business going, it needs sports, also. >> all right, tom, thank you so much before we go, andrew ross sorkin, i'm curious, did you explore the projector situation? did you get one? >> i haven't gotten one yet. >> i watched the entire olympics on a projector >> the number of people who texted me after that segment and said mika is right, you need to

have a projector in your house, was shocking i'm on the case. i did some investigating i was going to buy one on amazon i haven't done it yet. but it's on the wish list. >> i have to say, before we leave, one of the great highlights for me of the olympics was seeing andrew fencing with his co-anchors on cnbc i've seen them verbally joust. they were really going at it andrew is a hell of a fencer. >> thank you, tom. >> watch it on a projector lemire, go ahead >> look, the projector, you've been on this for a while people are listening to this show, you've always been an influencer in a number of ways this will be next. another question will be, how effectively does streaming work via the projector? >> perfectly that's why i watched the entire olympics on a projector. and it's like a mug.

you can put it anywhere. you'll never buy a television again. >> i was just going to say, when you talk about projectors, most people are thinking 1987 projectors that are massive. >> with the screen. >> this is about the size of this it's not too expensive you put it anywhere and you just find a wall and put it up. >> it's the future, guys don't buy a tv >> done for the day. >> thanks. we have something fun coming up we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

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joe, do you ever wonder how long we've been doing this show? i'm just curious. >> forever i'm happy. it's great every day i'm, like, how lucky am i but, yeah, i've been lucky forever. we've been doing this forever,

yeah. >> here is an example of just how long we've been doing the show here is a picture of me with our executive producer and his beautiful wife and their twin girls, lila and emma they're adorable now let's look at lila and emma 12 years later look at these girls. happy birthday, sweeties you look amazing on your birthday and i have to say, can lyla and emma hear me i hope so. because i want to tell you girls that our morning calls with your dad often start with stories about the two of you so this is what i've learned about lyla and emma over the course of 12 years you are exuberant, beautiful, funny, very funny, you're both very curious, and when joe calls alex -- i don't know if it's lyla or emma who goes, is that

joe? and alex goes, yes is that lyla that's lyla. lyla goes, oh, joe so often your calls, joe, are very much echoed by lyla, who can sometimes be, you know -- she thinks you might call a little too much. alex would never say it. but lyla, she speaks her mind. she knows her value. >> yes, to keep us honest, exactly. keep going. >> you girls are very industrious, always very busy. you're intelligent and you are 12-year-old superstars so happy birthday, lyla and emma >> happy birthday! >> we love you and i just have a question i have a question for lyla or emma, or both. who is your favorite, joe, willie, or mika? >> mika.

>> i told you, they're brilliant. >> out of all of them, they are amazing. all of you do a fantastic job keeping the show running yes, joe, you're awesome i'm sorry for interrupting your calls. and doing this is totally awesome. >> i think mika is the best person on earth. sorry, joe anyway -- >> it's all right. >> mika, you're the best >> i'm going to cry. you guys are amazing. >> you all are the best. and i want you to know we are so, so glad to have you here and as i tell your brother all the time, we just couldn't do this without him and we know that that means -- >> it's true. >> -- that you all, your entire family contributes so much so we are grateful >> thank you >> and i just want to say, i just heard alex's voice crack.

so lyla and emma, thank you so much happy birthday, girls. >> joe, you're good, too. >> have a wonderful day. >> thank you so much coming up on "morning joe" -- am i really walking out of here today or are you going to try to draw on me or what i did to your big brother? >> you won't. >> maybe not today, but maybe some day >> wow, that was a departure from the sweet girls we just saw. that was a clip from the hit show "fall out" which tells the story of a post apocalyptic los angeles set 219 years after a nuclear bomb hit the united states the show has earned 17 emmy

nominations and one of its stars, emmy-nominated actor joins us live in the studio next on "morning joe. when migraine strikes, do you question the tradeoffs of treating? ubrelvy is another option. it works fast to eliminate migraine pain. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. ask about ubrelvy.

>> you should not be alone >> why did you join the brotherhood? >> to hurt the people who hurt me. >> they're going to come after you. >> ain't much stage cleanup here

well, now, that is a very small gun and a very large bucket of drugs. >> that was a look at prime video's highly acclaimed hit show "fallout" and the show's first season is set in a post a p -- apocalyptic los angeles, with danger around every radioactive corner let's bring in one of the stars, walton goggins, nominated for an emmy in the category of outstanding lead actor let me say this, walton, my kids who are a little older, they all say you've got to see this show, it's based on a video game that's the wrong way in. that's like saying, dad, you need to watch the crochet network for the next three weeks, right

>> yeah. >> but i started watching and i was really hooked, and in large part because of your story man, i've got to say, it takes the viewer everywhere. the final scene, i won't ruin it for everybody, but the final scene is, oh, my god we're starting to understand what happened. i want to ask you what it was like when you first got to read the script and got to see the range of emotion that your character was going to play? it's really remarkable >> thank you very much for saying that. it was geneva and graham, our writers, along with jonathan nolan. we had this lovely phone call, zoom, if you will, and they were just telling me about the story. i wasn't familiar with the game, either my son is 13 years old, and he plays games, he's a big bethesda fan. so don't feel so bad that you didn't know the game that's not really my way into

it, either it comes down to the story when i read the scripts for the first time, i was so taken, i just had the first view, but i was taken, more than anything, by the first seven minutes of the show, and the dropping of the bombs. the moment before the world changes. and i was there with -- i'm not giving anything away by saying this, there with an actor that plays my daughter. and being the father of a 13-year-old and experiencing something like that, i was not prepared for how visceral that experience would be for me and on the other side of this experience, and i think it is very visceral for the audience and the people that have watched it and then ten minutes later you find yourself laughing it really kind of has a foot in drama, but a foot in this satirical comedy it pulls no political punches. it's a very tough needle to thread, and we just did the best that we could do

i'm so grateful for the experience >> and you see your character at the very beginning, this star, this sort of -- this tv star who is now doing birthday parties. but you can see that he's doing it, in large part, because he's connected to his daughter, he wants to be with his daughter, he wants to help his daughter. and, again, remarkable wind through the season, where at the end of the season you think -- we don't know, so i'm not ruining anything, but you think there may be, in fact, a reunion. you sort of end up where you began. and it's really, again, an incredible turn. >> thank you very much we'll see where it goes in season two thankfully we have that pickup and so we're going to go back to work relatively soon, whenever that happens but, yeah, it was an incredible

experience i get to play two characters, a ghoul, a bounty hunter who has been roaming the post a apocalyptic waste land, but he has a name, cooper howard. it is through his experience that we get to see the world and what the world was like before the bombs dropped. it was just so exciting to get to play these two people and to figure out how they speak to each other over this amount of time i just kind of settled on swagger, charisma and sense of humor. >> yeah, and it certainly worked and jonathan lemire, we've seen post apocalyptic thrillers in the past where you have somebody that's going to search for something and, of course, we don't know what the ghoul is searching for until the end.

in fact, he's looking for his family yeah, it's very cool how they turn it -- it reminds me a good bit of denzel washington in one of my favorite movies that i can't remember right now >> i do it all the time. >> joe, we've all been there >> alex chimes in and saves the day, again walton, joe was leading us there. we have seen post apocalyptic films before what makes this different? the visuals are compelling tell us why creating that world is such a big part of the story. >> i think it all starts with the source material. it's based on the game "fallout" by bethesda, and it is a property that means everything in the world to tom howard and everyone at the institution, and they just built a world that was almost four-dimensional, really. and we just kind of picked up and it's an original story, but

inherent in the dna of this experience isa sense of humor and not a parody, but certainly a satire that i think is often kind of missing in post apocalyptic shows. they've been around. they're cyclical they've been around for 80 years. people are interested in that topic, the world is a pretty scary place right now and a lot of this is kind of on people's minds and maybe that plays into the success of this experience but ultimately it comes down to, i think you can give more and teach more with honey, you know. and so, yeah, i think that's one of the main reasons why people are attracted to it. >> really fun, entertaining. there's this cool retro vibe to it all episodes are streaming now on prime video emmy nominated actor walton goggins, thank you so much greatly appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having