we lost a great one, but we know are enormous legacy will move on and our thoughts go out to her sisters, parents, husband, and her beautiful kids tonight. we are thinking of you, susan, and we thank you for the light you've shown on us for many years. i wish you all a good and safe night. hug your family. every day we have together is precious. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. we will see you again tomorrow. okay. there is a lot going on tonight including donald trump's return to twitter. thank god for that. he is about to be interviewed by

elon musk. he started to post on the platform again today for the first time in a year. now, our team will listen to that interview, pay attention to it, so you don't have to do that. we will update you later in the show or if anything interesting comes up. of course, the mere fact the interview is taking place is alarming. the world's richest man is using his enormous platform to basically give the republican nominee a free ad, and we will talk about that. conservative attorney george conway who never holds back a former white house aide sarah matthews, one of the braver voices out there will join me on set. so is former congressman and presidential candidate beto o'rourke will be with me later. we are following major breaking news. the washington post is reporting the fbi is now investigating, expected iranian hack and attempted hacks of both presidential campaigns.

what was already a crazy story just got much crazier and the washington post broke the story was in two hours ago and is hustling over here to talk about it with us shortly. first, there's been a lot of focus lady, and for good reason, on the huge crowds, all the packed arenas across the country, all the people supporting the harris/walz ticket. these crowds tell us that people are excited, they are energized. trump's reactions has also told a lot about him. i mean, after harris/walz filled another arena in michigan with a sea of real, live supporters, the former president of the united states and republican nominee posted a statement on social media, and i will read it in full because seeing it is one thing but hearing it is another. i will tell you why. here it is, quote, has anyone noticed that, let cheated at

the airport? there was nobody at the plane and she a.i. it and showed a crowd of so- called followers but they don't exist. she was turned in by a maintenance worker at the airport when he noticed the fake crowd picture, but there was nobody there. later confirmed by the reflection of the mirrorlike finish on the vice presidential plane. she is a cheater. she had nobody waiting in the crowd looked like 10,000 people. same thing is happening with the fake rotator speeches. it's a with the democrats win election is by cheating on their wares at the ballot box. she should be disqualified because the creation of a fake images election interference and anyone who does that will cheat at anything. those are trump's words. he posted that. if a friend of yours or someone in your family posted that on social media, you would be very concerned. you might even try to get them professional help like right away. but this is not your older uncle or your neighbor who was

losing it. this guy wants to be the commander and chief if you get. here's what the harris campaign senior david plouffe tweeted, these are not conspiratorial rantings from the deepest recesses of the internet. the author could have the nuclear codes and be responsible for decisions that will affect us all for decades. he is right. one of the biggest stories of this presidential election right now should be that one of the candidates is spewing unhinged conspiracy theories usually reserved for the darkest corners of the internet. on a personal level, this type of unhinged conspiracy spewing is something a person does when they are on some level quite disconnected from reality. they are may be frankly unwell. i am not here to diagnose donald trump. i'm here to look at what is happening underneath all that crazy because when you cut through the craziness, the random capitalization that you might need help like right now, there is something perhaps more

sinister happening. if were being generous and acknowledging there could be some level of strategy here, it's all part of trump's sinister plan to undermine kamala harris, to prime supporters to question the outcome of the 2024 election. to condition his pace did not even believe what they are seeing with their own eyes. he uses words like cheater, cheating, fake crowds. should be disqualified. these are messages to his followers. of course, this is far from the first time trump has done this. even just over the past few weeks. take mpos back-check of his rambling press conference it was hard to watch at mar-a-lago last week. they found he lied 162 times in 64 minutes which is not easy to do. one of those lies that he repeated several times was suggesting that harris' nomination is unconstitutional. as mpr put it there is nothing

in the constitution about candidates. who can forget went trump said harris happen to turn black. the sickly, the crowds are real and her support is not real and are spot on the ballot is a real and her race is not real. don't believe what you are seeing. believe me, that is what trump is doing. here is why. right now, is looking at a race where his opponent is leading in three of the core swing states. raising more money than him and holding more events and him and is about to go to an enthusiastic democratic convention. harris is doing well right now. trump is looking for ways to delegitimize her support and even her standing on the ballot in an effort to call into question what could be a victory for her in november. in other words, reality is looking great for trump so he sowing doubt in reality. it's an old trick of his, favor trek, just as joe biden. it's happening again. yeah, trump is coming across as unhinged but he may be both but

there's a strategy underneath his concerning behavior, this, in my view, is a. george conway is a conservative attorney sarah matthews a former white house press secretary. they both have a lot of thoughts and they both join me now. george, i will start with you. you not held back on twitter. you never holdback in person either, reacting to this post from trump. don't hold back now. what does this say about trump and where he stands in the election? >> he say compensating narcissistic sociopaths. he is very unwell. i have been saying this for years. if you look at the diagnostic criteria for narcissist personality disorder, antisocial disorder in the american psychiatric association mental disorders, if it's every single one of them. the criteria were made to describe him. we can observe that just from,

one week, we've been observing it for seven years. what happens to these characters, and these characters, they become authoritarian dictators. these kinds of people ultimately go too far and they destroy themselves. when they reach that point of no return of where they are spiraling, they become delusional. they become psychotic. i think what we saw with this tweet yesterday is that last final collapse of donald trump's mental state. think about it. things like 50, 60, 70,000 people in the aggregate of five rallies in different states, jonathan put this of the new york magazine put it this way. that is loopy than saying the moon landings were stage because there were tens of thousands of people were there. there are hundreds of people taking photographs and videos.

to think that is crazy and to try to sell it to people is just as crazy. he is done. his brain is fried. >> sarah, you can add to anything george said, by all means. he covered it there. i read that because it's important for people to hear. those are trump's words. he posted them. it's a lot for people to manage. you have worked for him. what's going on? >> i think he feels the election slipping away and that's where you are seeing him spiral and cling to these conspiracy theories. as you noted with the a.i. generator crowds which can be easily disproven. despite him claiming there's this photo, no reflection data >> don't feel you have to explain. it's insanity. >> there will be people who believe it because he is pushing it and that's what happens when he gets desperate. he pushes conspiracy theories and not just this one. him leaning into kamala harris'

racial identity or him going after and attacking the popular governor of georgia, brian kemp, and is why. these are not winning campaign messages. that is what he does when he feels like he is under attack is he uses these kinds of lines of defense that don't make much sense for campaigning. i can assure you his campaign team is talking about policy. they want him to talk about the economy, things voters care about. on of these things he is talking about in his rallies or truth social posts are things top of mind for most voters. >> no question. they say they want to talk about policies and he is incapable. he seems very unhinged and all the things you said earlier, george. there is an underlying theme here which is him kind of questioning what the outcome might be. it's not valid. she's not valid. she is unconstitutional as a

candidate, which is not a thing you can confirm. talk about what you are seeing in terms of other aspects of his efforts that we should be concerned about. we are calling him unhinged but what else are you seeing in terms of his behavior and what they are preparing? >> i think you're right that he is preparing to say the election was stolen again. if he loses, the election would've been stolen from him. that is something that narcissist do. they blame others. they cannot accept their own faults are accepted feet so, you cheated. he cheated. everybody cheated. it didn't happen. he is reaching to the point and for him, he is not very smart. he has a reptilian intelligence and that reptilian intelligence tells him to do that, deny reality and get other people to

deny reality. this time, it's really, his really gone over the edge. him because he's looking, he's not just running for president, his running from prison is already a convicted felon. if the case in florida ever goes to trial, he will get convicted and he will get convicted down the street because the supreme court's immunity decision only go so far to protect him. he could go to prison for the rest of his life and he is terrified. >> it means is maybe more desperate perhaps then he was even in 2020. >> which is scary. >> i think everybody remembers, you quit the administration after january 6 because of what you saw. that was the culmination of all of this in 2020. what is it like to sit and watch? there's pebbles of details we are seeing. the way he posts things, his preparation. to question the outcome, to

lead to something similar? >> we saw it happened in 2020 we started questioning the legitimacy of mail-in ballot so he was laying the groundwork ahead of the election to then say it was fraudulent. we know there's zero evidence of that. then, after the election, he kept clinging to even more crazy conspiracy theories because his advisers were telling him what he didn't want to hear that he lost zero evidence of fraud. then he started listening to people telling him what he wanted to hear. as george noted, i am concerned about how he is going to be more desperate heading into 2024 to ensure he wins because he is not running to make america great again. he's running to stay out of prison. if he does not win and he is scared of what will happen as a result, and i think we are not talking enough about the things that his campaign is seeking too. even one of his top campaign

advisers, he recently said that the election will not be decided on election day, on inauguration day. trump swears his oath, his hand on the bible. a recent rolling stone investigation showed that there are 70 pro trump election deniers who will be playing a role as election officials in key battleground states across the country. that is terrifying. even if there is no evidence of fraud or anything to suggest that trump won, then these people will be pushing the things he wants. that is there backup plan. right now the plan is to jen up the base and get them excited and increase turnout because it doesn't seem they are appealing to swing voters. when you're talking about crowd sizes and racial identity and attacking kamala harris for that, that's not a winning message. the backup plan is to default

on claiming the election was stolen or rigged as they did in 2020, but it will be even more extreme in 2024. >> those are good reminders. i want to play a portion of an ad is putting out and cable starting tomorrow. spent not enough people want to go to his rallies anymore. they want to go to kamala harris' rallies. enjoy the rallies while they last, down, because where you are going you won't be able to have any. >> first of all, that is your voice. >> yes, it is. i miss my calling. 30 years of practicing law and i could've done voiceovers. >> watching that, the crickets

even, are you trying to drive him crazy? >> my anti-psycho -- is to point out his mental disorders and to explain his mental disorders are dangerous for the country third is to get the media to talk about it. the failure to talk about the fact that he is meant cell/mental disorder and every psychologist will tell you that behind closed doors, they have normalized him. he said a lot of insane things before yesterday and all of a sudden have to wait for the most insane thing to say, he is crazy? we have gotten so used to the craziness that it takes something like saying 50,000 people or 70,000 people for people to maybe talking about it. >> we are talking about it. >> the fourth thing is to provoke him into demonstrating those qualities of insanity that he tends to. he is already -- one of our ad

. >> if he response to this over the next hour, we will tell everybody. it's always great to talk to your. breaking news tonight. high-stakes national security investigation into the suspected hacking at times by iran targeting matches a trump campaign but the biden/harris campaign as well.

okay, we are following breaking news that the fbi is investigating attempts by iran to hack both major presidential campaigns. people familiar to the washington post that agents have been looking into at times by iran to steal data from both the trump and biden/harris campaign since june. we already learned over the weekend some internal trump campaign data have been

provided to journalists in recent weeks. we don't know if from the fbi that if is related. that was provided with aol account calling himself robert. campaign officials say they had been hacked. fbi sources haven't tied that alleged hacked any country. now, sources tell the washington post that hackers targeted three officials in the biden/harris campaign with spearfishing emails. doesn't appear those attempts were successful but get his. sources told the post the fishing attempt did six season compromise the communications of someone with no formal campaign status and that's roger stone. the longtime trip adviser. in 2016 he tried to dig up dirt on hillary clinton from campaign evils after they were hacked by russia. stone tells opposed he is cooperating with the probe and devlin barrett is a law- enforcement reporter for the washington post. he is one of the reporters who broke the story tonight from the post in the last few hours. i gave a few details that i

summarized it quickly. you broke the story two hours ago. tell me what's in your reporting? >> the main thing is we just learned a piece of this, the tip of the iceberg of this investigation but we are now seeing is a larger device that's coming into focus. it shows the investigation is been running since june and they have been working it for a while, and the same suspected iranian hackers went after biden/harris advisers as well as trump advisers. it looks like so far, they were more successful in their hacking against trump people than biden people. the caveat is it's a messy space. i don't think this is the last thing we will learn about this investigation or this hacking ever. theirs months to go so i don't think we have seen the last, not just of this hacking, but other attempts. >> you cover this closely.

attempts to intervene in u.s. elections is pretty common. you hear about them only when it becomes hugely problematic, but it happens almost every presidential cycle. the one most people are familiar with this 2016 when the russians intervened in an effort to help trump in the campaign. this is a bit different from what we know because they went after both campaign information. >> that's not surprising given the way foreign hacking groups think about meddling or sowing chaos within american politics. it's i think evident that there is a history and dynamic between iran and trump that is different. we saw last week charges unsealed against someone who is allegedly conspiring to try to possibly conduct assassinations against political figures in the u.s. the iran trump dynamic is packed with energy and consequences than some of the other dynamics, but i think, the overall message is there's

a lot of hacking elements trying to dig into computer systems of senior american officials, senior american candidates. some of them data -- >> roger stone is someone people heard of and he tried to use hacked emails to go after hillary clinton and now it seems he clicked on a fishing email or something along those lines? >> what we are told is hackers were able to access his email account and use that email account to sort of directing most other people in the hopes of getting other people more closely linked to donald trump to get into their accounts as well. one thing to keep in mind, as you pointed out, roger stone is no stranger to this world. roger stone was convicted back in the day of lying to congress about his efforts to find out what emails had been stolen from hillary clinton and

democrats. so, there is a degree of irony, but you also have to think of this space as full of people trying to play dirty tricks, people in foreign countries as well, trying to both access information and depending which country you're talking about and what they get, manipulate that information. >> one thing i noted in your reporting is over the weekend, stephen who is a spokesperson for the trump campaign said some of the information that was obtained -- that was sent to report is from an email address on aol with the name robert was obtained illegally from foreign sources hostile to the united states intending to interfere with the 2024 election. we don't know that yet to be clear. >> what the fbi's pretty certain his iran is behind the hacking efforts. meaning the attempts to steal data. it's unclear to the fbi, my understanding, as to whether

the robber persona, that email about -- account is tied to the iran issue, acting on behalf of wittingly or unwittingly of the iranian parts of this or if it's a different dynamic in our multiple, one of the things have to think about cyberspace is at any given time there's bad actors trying to get over on people, steal data, share data. the bureau is not certain that iran is behind the leaking part but this is early stages. they may come to a better understanding as this goes on. >> sounds like there is a lot to learn and you will have a lot of reporting to do. thank you for hustling over here. you just broke the story earlier. why are donald trump and j.d. vance, against tamils? asked one of his longtime friends former texas congressman beto o'rourke. he joins me after a quick break.

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tim walz is a former teacher, former football coach and a veteran of the national guard and the family guy. it's a hard guy to attack and write j.d. vance at donald trump are going after him in ways that are really tracking. >> tim walz gives a big speech, he's announced as a vp nominee, and i remember when i had been

announced as a vp nominee, gave a big speech and saw my wife and i gave her a hug and kiss and i love my wife and that's what a normal person does. tim walz gave a firm midwestern handshake and then try to awkwardly correct for it. >> if comrade tim walz and harris win, the people cheering will be the pink haired marxist, the looters, perverts, hamas supporters. drug dealers. gun grabbers. human traffickers. >> okay, just as a reminder, this is the freakish guy j.d. vance at donald trump were talking about. freakish. look at that in in the minneapolis star tribune, former student of tim walz wrote this, memo to the trump 20 2014 from a dormant republican and a tomball student. make it about china, make it about the border, make it about anything other than leadership, decency because if you don't and this becomes a character to

be, you are way out of your league. joining his former congressman beto o'rourke and he met tim walz on the first day in congress and sat next to him and the veterans affairs committee for the next six years. i love that story. you were friends with governor walz and you've known him a long time. what you make of these attempts by j.d. vance at donald trump to pick apart his character, basically? >> they are really desperate. i found myself laughing when you were playing the clip of trump about the pink haired marxist and all the other folks who will come out and get us a tim walz is vice president of the united states. tim walz is one of the most wonderful human beings i've ever met. i was really surprised that he was in contention to be nominated for vice president of the united states and surprised to get picked only because it's so rare that someone who is so genuinely kind and nice and is

not a blowhard or grandstand or and self promoter ever reaches these levels of political attainment in this country. he's that rare person who is truly a good guy and who is gotten ahead by getting the job done. in congress on the veterans affairs committee, this guy working with the republican majority, working with donald trump as president was able to pass legislation and open up into health care access for veterans who had, making their lives better regardless of whether they lived in big cities or rural communities. republicans, democrats, as governor of minnesota, is made sure that kids can learn on a full belly. that we decriminalize marijuana so we are putting people behind bars for something that's legal for most of the rest of the country. he made affordable housing to the tune of $1 billion a priority. he codified a woman's right to make her own decisions about her own body, her own future, and her own health care. there's nothing marxist radical

about that. it's about as popular and agendas you can get because this guy is so in tune with the people he serves and represents. he is just a good guy. >> one of the things he tried to go after him on, and you sat next to him on the veterans affairs committee, is his military record. he served for 24 years in the national guard in the highest enlisted person in congress when he was there. what do you make of those specific attacks against him? >> it's pretty desperate. we should be grateful, and i am, to anyone who has ever served this country whether it's tim walz, j.d. vance, whether it's the millions of americans who are willing to put their lives on the line for this country. it's the only reason we have the country we enjoy today and probably for too many of us take for granted. that was not lost on tim walz.

after 24 years in the guard, he continues to serve, this time on the veterans affairs committee. making sure that those who were willing to write this blank check to our country are taken care of by the federal government. you know this but the veterans affairs committee is not the priority assignment for any member of congress. many and if there is a form of punishment. you can't fundraiser no ribbon cuttings or headlines. nothing sensational or sick ciabatta. it's probably the most important work you can possibly do and tim walz chose to be on the committee and stayed on the committee and the ranking member and ultimately the chairman of that committee because he wanted to deliver for veterans, never himself or his career, but for people who served america. that is who he is at his core. >> we only have a minute left but i want to ask you.

you have seen a lot of presidential candidates run. vice president kamala harris and governor walz are creating a lot of excitement out there. do you think this is enough? should people hold their hope of for texas or will it take longer? >> the thing is, you see democrats smiling. there is joy in our party. there is electricity moving through the system and places i think were written off are in contention. three at the most competitive congressional races are in texas including michelle in texas 15. we win those and we might win control of the house of representatives. the biggest pickup opportunity for senate democrats is also in texas. colin allred versus ted cruz. i think harris/walz increase the chances we will win these races. nose, but joe biden lost texas by only 5.5 points in 2020 and it's been moving faster into the blue column than any other battleground state.

anything, i think, as possible this year and with the energy those two upbringing, think texas could possibly be in play. >> you heard it from a guy who would know. thank you so much for joining me. it sure seems like technical issues have been prevented anyone from hearing anything between elon musk at donald trump.

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my friend brian and tyler cohen will join me to talk about what's happening on twitter. elon musk was supposed interview trump tonight. it seems like they're dealing with massive technical issues that prevented it from happening as planned. what a shame. before we get to that, let's talk about the trump/tran14 alliance. and why it's troubling. let's remember they haven't always been pals. it was only two years ago that musk said it was time for trump to sail into the sunset. in response, trump called musk aps artist but then this year, musk started getting more supportive and even publicly endorsed him following the assassination attempt. if you followed elon musk, his growing support for trump and the maga world might not

surprise you. musk has railed against what he calls a, quote, woke virus. peddled far right disinformation and open the platform up to an elevated, new host of hateful rhetoric under the guise of free speech. these things have been online with trump and right-wing figures. beyond trump and their ideological alignment, there is also a pretty mutually beneficial relationship. since rightly tech figures have begun to mobilize for trump, trump has been not so subtle and saying he wants to reward them. he recently said, quote, we have to make life good for our smart people referring to tech billionaires like elon musk which could mean he won't push for greater regulation of an industry that is in greater need of exactly that. in return, musk poured time and money into a super pac focused on reelecting trump. what maybe was concerning about this alliances we know that

musk's behavior is a pattern of elevating lies and misinformation on his own platform. we know it can have real world impacts. look at the united kingdom. for nearly two weeks, the uk is dealt with violent riots after the horrific fatal stabbing of three children in southport, england. they were triggered by false accusations circulated by far right groups that the suspect was a muslim migrant. that was not true. rather than doing anything to combat the misinformation that led to this violence, musk promoted it. in the middle of this, all of this, he posted online the, quote, civil war is inevitable. he shared and then delete it without apology a fake headline saying riders will be sent to detainment camps. and now, the same elon musk is fully behind donald trump. a guy who has a history of pushing his own lies and was banned from a pre--tran14 twitter for inciting

insurrection. the campaign is ramping up to salute out of the elections ahead of november. this friendship is really more than trump could hope for. with musk, he doesn't have a billionaire in his pocket but he has a billionaire prolific in spreading lies and conspiracies. one with the social media platform on which to spread them. brian tyler cohen is standing by to talk about the technical issues musk is dealing with as well as his new book that is coming out. around there. i do. i have a lot. what if there was a place where you could see your subscriptions and cancel the ones you don't like, all in one place? experian has that. oh, wow, i love it. i need that. and you could save $270 dollars a year. you're making adulting so easy. get started now with the experian app. (♪♪)

we have been attempting to monitor donald trump's interview with elon musk. i mean trying to, because the interview did not go as planned. that's apparently due to some technical difficulties. the site should not available after its scheduled start time. i am told i finally just got underway. our friend brian tyler cohen has been tracking this and he's a youtube start. one of the

best communitarians -- communicators out there and author of shameless republicans dysfunction in the battle to preserve democracy. it's so good to see you. you took on the unenviable task of tracking what was happening. what has been happening with the twitter conversation? >> i guess we shouldn't be surprised that the guy bungled ron desantis' president to roll out is consistent in bungling another conversation with a republican presidential candidate and that's what happened. i think it's best case scenario for donald trump. in the instances where he is spoken to the american people, extemporaneously in these press conferences another rallies is hosted, doesn't help him whether he brags about having a bigger crowd size than martin luther king jr. i have a dream speech for tonight kamala harris' ethnicity. every time he speaks to the american people it hurts him in

the end so i would chalk this up to a win for donald trump. >> let's talk about the book, shameless. it's really really good and it serves as a primer. you can disagree with me. on the modern republican playbook. i want to talk about some of the specifics. chapter 2, you dismantle the values including the long held claim that they are the party of family values. j.d. vance's excuse for his strange comments about childless cat where men, that was bizarre but he missed the boat on child tax credit. what i love about that is it takes her argument and reclaims it. talk about that chapter or the tactic you do. >> i thought it was important that while republicans are deriving the benefit of being the party more trusted on the economy, they rely on their branding and that's that they are the party of the

constitution and profamily values, fiscal responsibilities, states ray, law and order, they claim to be one thing while leaning on this branding from 20, 30, 40 years. the reagan admin or use it as clover as they -- from (. i wanted to talk about that because i feel they've gotten away with it for so long. that behavior needs to be exposed because they benefited from it and they don't deserve to. >> the other thing you talk about is the republican goal of flooding the zone. it's an articulate way of describing it. throwing klutz of information out there. it's a putin authoritarian tactic they are copying, so people are confused out there. you do these very effective explainers on youtube, if people are watching, they should. trump seems invigorated by it. what's the best way to combat it? >> this is the steve bannon

motto of flooding the zone and it's not necessarily even to convince anybody of something in particular but just throw so much out there that we don't know what to believe. the concept of truth is obliterated. what that does is leave people not knowing where to look for facts or reality. can allow demagogues to slide in and give their version of the truth and when people are confused and have that little trust in institutions or media, what they will look at is a demagogue. that's how donald trump presents himself. it's obliterating reality and a blooper eating truth and allowing trump to benefit from the vacuum created. >> i make a sound negative but it's not a negative book. it's positive in many ways and inspiring. you talk about how democracy is in the fight for democracy. what does that mean exactly? how can people embody that?

>> the important thing to recognize is when we have these elections, we hear that it's the most important election of our lifetime. 2016, 2020. every time it's true but it doesn't mean it ends after that. we never unfurled the mission accomplished banner. we have to accept the fact that this is part of our lives and fighting for democracy and voting, which is not that big a task to ask people to do to protect our way of life, that it has to be our way of life every election and what we are used to and casting ballots and making sure people do the same thing. when we come to terms with that and don't make you feel like, we've done that last time, we went out once and you told us democracy would be protected for democracy would be protected if we vote in 2022, that's right and democrats did win in 2020 and 2022.

we have to keep doing it. it's a small price to pay. >> as people buy your book and read your book, what you hope they take away from the book? >> the most important thing is to recognize that we have agency and thus. in wisconsin which is often time the tipping point, the difference between trump and win and biden was two points. for people out there, anyone in your life that might not have voted person interested in politics, make them your responsibility. make sure they get out and vote. if we find two more people present synced it might be the difference between protecting democracy and not. >> a primer on the republican day party and inspirational book. congratulations. it's not easy to birth a book. one more thing to tell you about before we hans things off to rachel maddow.

before we go, quick heads up. i will be heading to chicago for a behind-the-scenes look at the democratic convention which starts one week from today. get excited. this is video for preparation is underway. we will be inside the united center talking to people planning the production. we will show that next sunday at noon eastern. that does it for me.

rachel maddow show starts right now. >> the dnc will be so different this year than we thought it was going to be, even one month ago. i think even had people known the former -- then president biden was going to give up that top at the ticket, had people known that, they still would not have expected the dnc to go the way of will go. the way we expected to go. it will be different than anything we have ever seen. >> completely different, and i think they had to change a lot of the planning because it's all about the nominee. you now have kamala harris is the nominee. it changes the whole thing. which i can't wait to talk to them about. that we're all going to hear from it's joe biden it's going to be a barn burner next week. but i'll have a little preview on sunday.