and tim walz, what we'll see in the next few days and into the convention how she deals with the fact, her vision is not a substantive one at this point. it's largely based on rebutting trump and bringing in new energy and excitement. as we move, that's one of the things that gives democrats trepidation. when you look at hillary clinton in 2016, one of the things she backed up on was the policy, the vision for the country. with the contrast to trump, that is a big question as harris heads into the fold. how much policy does she put forward. and how much does she get pressed to fill in the details. >> she's certainly going to have to do that and aided if trump keeps imploding. white house reporter for "the washington post," tyler pager. thank you to you for getting up on were "way too early" this

tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. he is terrible. he is terrible. on "time" magazine today, she looks like the most beautiful actress ever to live. it was a drawing. and actually, she looked very much like our great first lady melania. she looked -- yeah, she didn't look like kamala. that's right, of course, she's a beautiful woman. so we'll leave it at that. we will leave it at that. part of donald trump's conversation last night with elon musk on the x social media platform. the event delayed by significant technical issues. musk suggested it was a hack. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday august 13th, the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, eugene robinson and

"the new york times" david frank. we'll get to david's column in just a minute. joe, it's good to be back with you, back in new york city after a parisian escapade of about three weeks. >> it's great to have you back. you know the question i'm going to ask. you know the question i'm going to ask, we were blessed to win gold in atlanta in sin -- synchronized swimming. and with the expression in glades of glory, i don't want to take credit for that, but will ferrell was channeling you when he did that. compare those events, obviously personal for you, with what happened in paris. i will tell you, just sitting on my barcalounger watching that, that may have been the greatest olympics i've seen.

>> by far, not a close second, the experience, the way it was run, how team usa did, how the host country did, how france performed at its own games. and talking to people who have done many, many more around nbc sports and nbc news than i saying this was the best olympics they've ever been a part of. i thought the nbc coverage was incredible the way they ran it on peacock. the gold zone, from the nfl, bounced around from the gold medal events. you got to watch everything you wanted to live. so, the coverage back here was great. and as for paris, always concerns when you drop the olympics on an old city. and, boy, did they accommodate them so well. using what they had. existing, obviously, you know, beach volleyball underneath the eiffel tower. i went to fencing in the grand palais with that ceiling. until you see it.

the metro was flawless. got you to places you wanted to go easily. it was spectacular games. there were a lot of people there from l.a. 2028, walking around, seeing how things are going. all right. a new standard has been set for how the olympics should be run. it was truly spectacular. >> really has. you look, olympics rating gold for nbc and peacock. yea, go, team. for people who haven't been around "morning joe" for a long time. we were pretty mercifulness in the beijing games with all the pollution and everything else. but it was -- still, take that lower third down. that's just -- you know. there you go. there you go. okay. i can talk about it. we talked yesterday. so, a lot of olympic glory, but also media companies struggling. and what was interesting last

week was, you probably didn't catch it because you were in the middle of everything over there. but the same week we heard that peacock was doing great streamingwise. and historic. we also heard that disney made their first profit in streaming. i mean, this is a long time coming. people see all of the reports about media companies having to fire people, lay off people, et cetera, et cetera. part of that problem is that advertising revenue collapsed linear and hadn't quite made it back up. with -- those points haven't sort of reached with streaming. and suggests that these olympics may be remembered for more than just an extraordinary sports story, an extraordinary event. but also, a pretty big medial story as well. >> yeah. it was definitely a pivot point for peacock and maybe others that maybe now they can launch all of their other products. people come and enjoy the experience on peacock. i can lie said, it was -- even for me, when you can't get all

the venues, you click on the icon, whatever the sport is, and there it is. very well done. and one other point that i had been thinking about a lot since i left paris a couple days ago, just kind of a bigger idea is coming back to our politicses right where it is when i left -- where it was, is just the spirit of the games. and i know it sounds corny and all of that. but you see these athletes from all over the world, all the different countries, cheering for themselves, hugging each other, even when they lose, supporting each other. the positivity and patriotism with the olympics that we've been accustomed to seeing, in contrast with what we live through every day, with our politics, some of the people in the world are not behaving the way our politicians behave. these athletes, they work their entire lives for these moments.

when they lose, they walk over and shake their hands. that vibe, i was only able to capture is for 2 1/2 weeks at the olympics. it's extraordinarily refreshing for america and our politics. >> not only politics, america is doing great. and, by the way, i said this when donald trump was president, i said it were when barack obama was president. i said it when george w. bush was president. though had problems, so many problems, obviously with donald trump but ideologically with the other guys i mentioned. america, we're stronger than ever. economically, we're stronger than ever, militarily, culturally, our soft power, our hard power, everything. i mean, we've fed and freed more people than any other country on the planet. americans are good people. right now, our politics divide us, we need to move past that. we've got to stop this red and blue, sort of a black and white

choice. and i think we -- i think we can do that. but what you're talk about, willie, it's just like at the beginning of the games, people tried to politicized it in the games. americans are like, you know what i want to see katie ledecky swim. >> that's right. >> keep your politics. your culture wars. keep that on your little blog in your mom's basement. i'd like to see simone biles. i'd like to see the basketball team, on and on. it was pretty inspiring. >> and if you doubt the power of the olympics, watch the professional athletes who have all of the fame and the money and success they could ever want in the world, watch the way steph curry and lebron james, the two biggest stars in basketball, how they emoted during and after that game, what it meant to them. watch scottie scheffler, the best golfer in the world cry in the medals stand as they played the national anthem. watch novak djokovic, the

greatest player of all in tennis collapse to the ground after he won his gold medal. it's really something powerful, the olympic games. >> it really is. it really is. we have so much to talk about this morning. and i want to talk to david in one minute. but i've got to say, eugene robinson. i want to start with "the wall street journal" editorial page. you know i disagree with a lot of things they say. i'm a bit befuddled with one of their editorials today. and it actually -- it hits on a topic that actually drove me to congress 30 years ago, and that is deficits, debt, federal spending, fiscal irresponsibility. we've got $35 trillion debt right now. nobody seems to care about it. but their editorial today suggests that donald trump

should lecture kamala harris on deficits. >> oh. uh-huh. >> this, donald trump and anybody that's watched this show knows, donald trump has the worst fiscal record of any president in the history of the country. and you can go back and look at documents of donald trump's treasury department, they play it out very clearly, even before covid, he was exploding the deficit. i tweeted something this morning, as i was getting ready for the show, after i read this, and it shows a line of the deficit going down, like this. under barack obama. going down from the 2008 collapse. and then shooting back up, the second donald trump becomes president of the united states. >> yeah. >> so, again, i am all for fiscal responsibility. in fact, that's sort of --

again, that's what got me into this business in the first place. but to suggest that donald trump should lecture anybody on the deficit, instead of writing an editorial talking about he was the most fiscally reckless president until u.s. history, he accumulated more in debt in the four years than america did in its 25 years in existence. that's the editorial to write, than elected in the next four years. >> of course, it wouldn't be any different. donald trump has never cared about the deficit at all. as you say, he was the biggest spender of -- certainly, one of the biggest spenders in american history, however you look at it. in absolute terms, per capita. whatever. he was a huge spender.

he cut -- slashed revenue for the government with his big tax cuts. he didn't offset it with any actual budget cuts. in fact, he doesn't like budget cuts. he wants to spend more. so, he is absolutely the last person in the world you would ask to come in and fix a deficit. and that actually is true. and you look at the cycle over the last 20, 30, 50 years, if you want to cut the deficit, elect democrats. big spenders. but if you want more deficit and more debt, elect republicans. they just like to spend the money. and donald trump is certainly of that ilk. >> the only time republicans hear about deficits is when democrats are in the white house. and when they're in the white

house, saw it under george w. bush and donald trump. so, willie, if you could, i'd love for you to read this statement. i do want to circle back to david quickly, david before we read your piece for "the new york times." i just want to say this is what's so maddening to me, the very things that made you and me conservatives, the very things that moved us to the republican party. the very things that we were fighting for i'm more boring, budgets, fiscal responsibility, taking care of taxpayers' dollars, giving them, like, the best thing for their buck, making government efficient is possible. having the local government do, what will they can't, let the state governments do. what they can't, let the federal governments do. in all of that, you're worried about individual freedoms, individual liberty, individual rights to go out, work hard, make a living.

up know, and make a life, where your kids have it better than you do. and they have a better opportunity than you even had, right? that's gone, man. that is gone and when i hear people talking about you're not a conservative anymore, it's laughable. because what we're seeing now, we're seeing idol worship for -- i'm not going to say a guy, it's a party now. it's a party. they're not conservative. they're not fiscally conservative. they're not conservative on foreign policy. they've got two candidates that want to turn ukraine over to the russians. the antithesis of everything that ronald reagan fought for. that republicans have always fought for. there is nothing conservative about this republican party, and, david, i just have to ask, if they lose again this year,

is -- okay, here we go. the question i was going to ask is, if they lose this year, is there a chance that they are going to go back to more tried and true, berkian reaganesque conservative principles? by the way, what you're looking at, direct from joe's twitter account. a little joke i made this morning, after reading the op-ed. in blue, that is left wing, socialist, communist, whatever you want to call it, reverend wright loving, barack obama, marxist record. it goes straight down. all of those things republicans said about him, obviously, not true. now, if you look right after barack obama left office, by the way, four years precovid, look

at deficits under donald trump. david, they go straight up. that's not conservative. >> yeah. absolutely. you know, one of the things that's happening, you have maga seized control of the republican party intentionally transforming it radically, not just of course on a policy basis, but a character basis, all the old republican party the dead consensus. and if you object to it, they say what happened to you? in other words, they're pulling the party away and accusing anyone who objects to it as being a traitor. this has been the dynamic for nine years now. here's what's stunning, joe. and, you know, i think some of your viewers would just be amazed by this. there are still many, many republicans who don't realize how different maga is from traditional republicanism. there's still many republicans who believe they're voting for at least strong elements of the older party.

and trump benefits immensely from this, even as maga just keeps changing it. >> yeah, willie, look at that. >> yeah, there it is, it's pretty clear. stark in that graphic there. you've got a new piece out for "the new york times," david, entitled "to save conservatism to itself, i am voting for harris." in it, david writes this, while there are voters who are experiencing a degree of trump nostalgia, remembering american life precovid as a time of full employment and low inflation there's a different story. social fabric free. not just abortions increased, the murder rate skyrocketed, drug overdose deaths hit new highs, marriage rates fell and birth rates continued their long decline. i'm often asked by trump voters, david writes, if i'm still conserve tip. and i respond that i can't vote for trump precisely because i am conservative. the only real hope for restoring

a conservism that values integrity, demonstrates real compassion and defends our found as constitution positions. ful he wins again, it will validate his cruelty and his ideological transformation of the republican party. if harris wins, the west will still stand against vladimir putin. and conservative americans will have a chance to build something decent from the wounds of a party that was once a force for genuine good in american life. david, we'll let you expand on that. this is something that joe talks about all the time. i'm still conservative. you guys are talking about it standing right here, it's the party, the trumpists that have changes. >> that's right. events have changed. 2016 and 2020, i voted their party. i wrote in, i could not vote for the democrat. i definitely was not going to vote for donald trump but there's some things that have changed since 2020. one of them was january 6 which

illustrated the lengths donald trump would go, the destructive lengths to our own constitutional order that donald trump would go. then the next year when putin invades ukraine. on both of those just paramount issues trump is not just on the wrong side domestically, he's the instigator of the crisis itself. so, if you're dealing with changed events, i feel like it's incumbent on me to be open to changing my mind on at least one element of my stand. and that is to vote for the party at the very least is going to stand against russian aggression. and, joe, saying that out loud that i'm voting against a republican to make sure that the united states resists russian aggression is again one of those moments where you can't believe how much things have changed. >> no, it's a surreal moment.

and i've explained to people before, i'm explained katty, when donald trump was president, i've always had great faith in america. many people say i'm too optimistic, i'm too glass half full. but my feeling has been that madisonian democracy grinds off the sharp edges. people say, with donald trump, oh, this is all about ideology. i said, no, no, no. you don't understand. i said, it's about respecting constitutional boundaries. i'm fairly confident that everybody from mike pence to bernie sanders would respect constitutional boundaries. and if mike pence were president or bernie sanders were president, i'd worry much less than if donald trump were president, because, again, madisonian democracy, checks and

balances, separation of powers that rounds off the sharp edges. we could survive four years of somebody who's very conservative or very liberal. our problem here is someone who just doesn't respect constitutional boundaries. and brags about being authoritarian to his supporters. and, you know, the truth is i agree with david, there are a lot of people who think that this is like clinton versus dole in 1996. but there are quite a few republicans i've talked to that like the authoritarian streak in donald trump. they like the strong man approach. >> yeah. mike pence put his own life in danger, his put his family's life in danger in order to protect and defend the bounds of constitutional democracy. it's night and day from the former president, who is now running, again, telling christian conservatives, don't worry, you won't have to vote again in four years' time because i'll have it all fixed.

and who nose, donald trump says stuff that is random and makes no sense. and maybe it was just another thing he says that is random and makes no sense. but it's pretty striking when you have a candidate running for president of the united states who is telling his supporters, who is telling american voters, you will not have to vote again in four years' time. the implication being that will not be an election in four years' time. now, i'm one of those people who thinks that the american guard rails hold. and that the courts are strong and that the press is strong. and there will be an election in 2028. there are an awful lot of democrats who believe there will be an election in 2028, because they want to run in 2028. it's really different, and it's all about donald trump. david, when you look at kamala harris' record as a conservative, and voting for her, people in the republican wing and conservative party who have endorsed her.

you look at things like immigration, as a prosecutor in san francisco, what she's said about a single parent health system and fracking in pennsylvania. i know she's reversed some of that, as reflections of her liberalism. is it hard for you to say you're going to vote for her? >> yeah, it is, actually. i'm a little encouraged in many ways she's moving closer to mom, disclaiming, defund the police and fracking bans in some concrete ways she is moving more to the middle. and that is somewhat reassuring. but, yeah, at the end of the day, if she wins the presidency there are a lot of policy issues that we would disagree on. a lot of policy issues. there are some we would agree on, such as support for ukraine. but we can have -- as joe was just saying, we can have that conversation and there are other elections i can vote in, like for senate and for house that can blunt the effect of her more

left wing policies, but we're doing it within the norms of american democracy. within the rules of american democracy. and in the next election if she's gone too far, i'll vote a different direction. but we can't treat this -- this is a core element in my piece -- we cannot treat this like a regular election where some of the regular policy issues dictate our vote. there are other frontline, top-tier issues, like respect for american democracy, defending and maintaining american allies that are just at this very high level. and we can't pretend they're not there. >> as david lays out in the piece, the republican party now unrecognizable from what it was just a few decades ago, in terms of foreign policy and some matters here at home. but, willie, the great question, the one answerable question is what happens next? even if donald trump were to be defeated this fall, does that mean trumpism, does that mean the maga movement goes away?

there are some in the republican party who say, yes, we're finally rid of him, let's move on, rebirth the party as something new for 2028. i don't know there's a guarantee of that. he is still going to be the loudest voice in the party, most likemy. certainly, his running mate has set up to be a loud voice in the matter going forward. the maga movement has captured so many local officials, state houses, congress, house of representatives in particular. i don't know even if trump were to be defeated in november that this would be something that the party would be able to rid itself of this movement. this is the party right now, the maga movement. and it might look a little different. it might have a different name atop it in 2028, but i don't know if we could take faith to go back to what it was. >> with tens of millions of regular supports onboard. as long as we're inside the editorial page, "wall street journal" writing this morning, trump is looking like a loser again, calling false obtuse and lun that tick. we'll get into more of that in

"the wall street journal." still ahead, we'll hear more from donald trump's two-glitch-filled interview with elon musk including what the president had to say about a conversation with russian president vladimir putin. "morning joe" is back in just 90 seconds. kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer. go to care.com now.

♪♪ beautiful live picture of the white house, sun up at 6:27

in washington. here in new york, former president donald trump and x owner elon musk engaged in a conversation last night on the platform with 1.3 million people listening on x spaces at its peak, the event delayed by 40 minutes by tech problems. musk blamed a cyber attack, a claim that could not be verified, called into doubt by a number of experts. once things finally did get under way, the pair spoke for more than two hours with trump doing most of the talking. here's a little bit of what he had to say. >> i hate to say this, the reason the numbers are much bigger than you would think is they're also taking the nonproductive people. now, these aren't people that will kill you. we have enough of them. but these are people that are nonproductive. they are just nonproductive. for whatever reason. >> yeah, yeah. >> they're not workers, or they don't want to work or whatever. and these countries are getting rid of nonproductive people in

the caravans in many cases. and they're also getting rid of their murderers and drug dealers and people that are really brutal people. and they're coming into our country in levels that have never been seen before. i know putin very well. i got along with him very well. he respected me. it's just one of those things, and we would talk a lot about ukraine. it was the apple of his eye. but i said, don't ever do it, don't ever do. you can't do it, vladimir. you do it, it's going to be a bad day. you cannot do it. i told him things what i'd do and he said no way. and i said way. >> the highest level of diplomacy there. >> come on! >> a little valley girl diplomacy. >> way. >> wow. >> zappa moon unit, valley girl? >> yeah, yeah, i think so. >> channeling moon there. pretty awesome.

no way. >> and he's so proud of his relationship with vladimir putin. just won't come off that position. he loves the guy. jon, i hope you can't listen to all two hours. but we did listen to much of it, mostly rambling, mostly donald trump talking once he got it up and running. they paint a dark picture of america, enthusiastic from the harris crowd. >> and shades there way and no way with trump and putin. first of all, trump was not challenged once during this interview. elon musk has a very friendly platform. and want to have a conversation, it's about vibes. that's what we got last night, a vibe established by donald trump standing in front of a portrait of himself in tennis gear as he gave the two-hour twitter space interview. but i think you come on to something important, vibes do matter right now.

and that may not be enough to carry one to the election day. it's a stark difference, gene robinson, night after night, the vice president, running mate, had raucous, joyful rallies, people are smiling, dancing to beyonce before she takes the stage. trump on the other hand, two hours, a little more controlled in his rhetoric last night than on the rally stage. and seeing him slur his words a little bit. you could see here with the portrait behind him. but he painted a very zarqawi distopic picture of america. at least at this moment, it appears that's not a message resonating with the actual voters who are going to decide this election. >> yeah. how could you imagine that people wouldn't resonate to that picture of that dark room with trump's hair and that weird portrait in the tennis outfit in the background which is just -- you talk about dystopic, i

don't see how that's not turning voters on. it's driving trump crazy. he's searching and searching and trying to find a way into the conversation. because he's just sort of babbling into the void. in a lot of instances. and, you know, we've seen the recent times when he goes out in public and just says, nonsensical and ridiculous and worrisome things, worrisome about his own mental health. i guess if you want to look at it, in political terms, maybe he was trying to get back the white dude vote, or to shore it up by doing this thing with elon musk. figuring that that was the demographic he was going to reach. kind of fans of elon musk in his

political transformation or metamorphosis, whatever it was. but i just -- boy, you know, if you sort of babble for two hours into the void, you know, does it actually make a sound? i'm not convinced that it did. i was going to listen to the thing. i just gave up after 40 minutes when they couldn't make it work. so, that kind of tells you a bit about the elon musk/donald trump show. >> and, willie, it's impossible to set aside the nonsense, including one point where trump saw the "time" magazine cover of kamala harris and said she looked lick melania trump. this campaign in briefing reporters last week, they basically said we feel like we can win this election by turning out new voters. they believe those voters are young men. some of color, perhaps

influenced by the elon musk character. who we saw trump do tiktok videos last week, a twitchy streamer who drew like 500,000 views. they feel like that is one area of this infertile ground. they feel like those voters might be more to support him than harris. he's trying to woo them. >> and clearly, some of the women voters trying to make up ground with the men. i mentioned the new columnist, gerald baker titled "trump is looking like a loser again. ""writing, quote, we got to be clear about the problem as mr. trump has been wrong-footed from the switch. the trudge of the past few weeks has looked and sounded more or less exactly like the trump of nine years ago. this is the problem. it is this mr. trump who lost the presidency in 2020. it is this mr. trump who lost the house in 2018, and the

senate in the georgia runoff election in january 2021. instead of telling voters consistently and repeatedly what they actually get if they vote democrat, he's merely reminding them what they will get if they vote republican. gerard makes i no fan of harris. but according to baker, he's going to lose. >> this is a concern that republicans are expressing across the board right now, some behind closed doors. some outwardly. we have clips of people who have been big supporters of donald trump over the years, trump media far right-wing media, basically encouraging trump to change. basically saying to those donors i am who i am. but i will say, david french, we all say it's early.

you know, january of last year, it's early. march, it's early. it's early, saying same in june and july, it's early. still saying it's only august. but i will say in august, it's getting awfully late for somewhere like gerry bake tore write a column like that. unlike you, he is not going to vote for kamala harris. and he probably will not vote for any democrats. at the same time, he says what everybody's whispering, and that is donald trump what did he say, like one-third of what donald trump said in the press conference was delusional, outright false, et cetera, et cetera. so, this is sort of, i don't know if it's a canary in a coal mine but what is. but, wait, when you lost gerry baker in mid-august as the republican nominee, there's trouble brewing. >> oh, yeah. look, you know, a lot of republicans right now are in kind of in a state of shock that

the trump campaign hasn't found its footing in taking on kamala harris. weeks now, after joe biden dropped out. so, a lot of republicans confidence rested in this idea that there was this super professional trump campaign, that even that trump himself was undisciplined, then he at least could take on somebody like kamala. he could at least take on, of course, joe biden. and a lot of people are gobsmacked that there hasn't really been an intentional strategy rolled out against kamala harris, other than this sort of berserk trump going from thing to thing and even emphasizing her race. so, there's just this growing sense that, oh, wait, maybe there's not a plan "b" here, and they're making this up on the fly. and you're beginning to see a lot of that coming out in commentary. >> the words gerry baker using

in his piece, false, obtuse and lunatic. david french, we'll be reading your piece at nytimes.com. thank you. ed luce joins us with his piece with "the financial times" when "morning joe" comes right back.

hi, i'm david, and i lost 92 pounds on golo. my life partner connie and i were in really rough shape regarding our health. and our doctors told us that we needed to lose weight. i saw a golo commercial and i thought, "we really need to try this." as the weeks went by, the weight came off. we learned to make healthy choices and be supportive of each other. together, we've lost 170 pounds. golo worked for us. since losing weight on golo, i'm feeling grateful and hopeful about the future. (energizing music) with so much entertainment out there wouldn't it be great... ...if you could find what you want, all in one place? show me paris. xfinity internet customers can enjoy the ultimate entertainment experience and save on some of the biggest names in streaming, all for just $15 a month. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity.

z's baking the house special. arisa's styling a new look. and steve's filling his biggest order ever. with the first ever comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee, these business owners get five years of value on gig speed internet and advanced security, all from the company with 99.9% network reliability. so now they can focus on doing what they do best for the next five years. that's a lot of bread. you got this. the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. switch today for a limited tim.

welcome back to "morning joe." just absolutely beautiful look at new york city. with the sun rising, 6:42. getting about halfway into august. it's great to have you here this morning. crazy times. i mean, it's the last two three months, have just been breathtaking, everything that's happened. and it is moving so quickly. we quoted lenin, not john lennon, but vladimir lenin where weeks go by where decades happen. drudge is leaking a story, "time" magazine talking about one of the biggest vibe shifts in american history. you look at polling, it's moving

very quickly, again, let me say again, it's only august. voters don't go to the polls. early voting, i think, starts in earnest in about three, four weeks. so, still early. but it's -- it's the end of the beginning. it's not the beginning of the end. it's the end of the beginning, as winston churchill would say. and so, we're moving now into the days and weeks that really count the most. and every day that there's additional, quote, vibe shift, or a shift, as, again, drudge links to "time," is a day is the day that people supporting donald trump in the campaign have more to worry about. i saw something in "the financial times" that really underlined how much the political world is shifting underneath all of this right now. and that was a question about

who americans trust more on the economy. talk about that, let's bring in the national editor for "the financial times" ed luce. ed, financial times of michigan who do you trust to handle the economy, joe biden always behind to donald trump, sometimes, double digits. i know you were surprised as other americans were, that number for the first time in this long campaign between donald trump and either biden sore harris has shifted with the democrats ahead by one point. it's a statistical tie but, again, even that is a massive shift. >> yeah, it is. it's not as if there's been a dramatic change in people's economical fortunes in the last three or four weeks. it's the same economic economy when last lasted. it's down to the sense and

energy, and dare i use joy that we're getting from the harris/walz campaign. as i say nothing has actually changed objectively, in terms of the economic numbers or people's personal finances in the last three weeks. what has changed is the mood. i think we had, i guess, a vibe session, while biden was president. people just were not prepared to look at their circumstances in an upbeat light. and now they are, all of a sudden. and that's, i guess in a nutshell, what's happened across the board politically in the last three or four weeks. >> ed, we've been talking a little bit this morning about elon musk and that conversation he had for more than two hours on x. the new piece in financial times is titled elon musk and the

dangers to it. ed writes, the key question is what if anything democracies can do to address the danger. this is happened in protected speech. i have no idea what the best remedy would be that is consistent with democratic and free speech values. i do know however that whatever he says, musk is no fan of either. he revels in conflict and is fascinated by the possibility of collapse. he's a disaster capitalist, vicious control, and brilliant engineer rolled into one. katty kay, obviously, this is a man who made his contention to support donald trump as he did giving him an open forum tole somes of people. elon musk is on the side of donald trump in this election. >> yeah. whether he's a brilliant engineer after that 40 minutes we all spent listening to cranky music. maybe he's fired too many engineers and they couldn't get it, woulding again.

working again. some voters who may have sat through that 40-minute glitch last night, ed, and what impact do you think that musk has on voters and particularly on the election? >> well, you're right about the engineering, if he can't get spaces working, you know, you're going to have trouble circling mars. look, only about 1.3 million people listened to this. it took an age to begin. and i was one of those who did wait around for it to begin. and of course, it never ended. it just went on and on and on. it wasn't an interview. it was a very softball, quite eccentric conversation between a donor and his candidate. none of the tough questions were asked. musk did try to push some of his hobbyhorses like controlling spending which trump would hear nothing of. trump is not into controlling spending but i think the net effect here is really, just to

confirm what we saw in trump's press conference in mar-a-lago last week, and when he addressed the national association of black journalists a couple days before, which is, that he isn't resetting. he's not a new trump. he's not a disciplined razor-like focused new candidate who is going to define kamala harris. he is as somebody else made the analogy, he's like spinal tap on tour, an ageing rock band playing its greatest hits. i don't think he's going to come up with anything new. >> we ask x and what he's doing to try to help trump. and there's that impact that we should worry about, i think. but what i actually worry about is technology not spaces, but space, on spacex. the star link satellite network.

it is extraordinary for one man to have such power, to have power over this unique network of satellites that has been, for example, crucial to the war effort in ukraine. that he actually has the power to switch on and off. and, you know, the astronauts who are now up at the international space station may not be able to get home until one of elon musk's spacecraft, not one of nasa's, but one of musk's can go pick them up. so, i'm concerned about that. but what are your thoughts about his dominion at this point over the space realm? >> i mean, it's remarkable. star link, as you say, he threatened to withdraw and briefly did withdraw star link services from the ukrainian forces who rely almost

exclusively on it. for on-the-ground communications in life and death battlefield situations. and he just applies the pressure on ukraine. he basically wanted a better contract out of them. and so, at a really key stage in the russian special military operation as putin called it, musk, of course, has also shown a great deal of sympathy for putin. this kind of reliance on a mega oligarch, i mean, the richest man in the world is, i think, an extremely dangerous one for democracy. my point about musk's risk at democracy is also about x's use of x. my own country has had racist attacks on refugee communities, based on false information that a muslim refugee had killed these three girls a few days ago in the uk. musk not only allowed the

amplification of that misinformation, potentially lethal disinformation, but he retweeted and endorsed far-right people in britain, far-right racist thugs, let's not mince our words about this, who he had reinstated on the site, on x. that helps generate riot situations. on the ground. this is -- this is a proprietor tilting the disinformation playing field towards really bad actors. and so, my concern is, if he can do that in that kind of situation and saying things like civil war is inevitable. he wants conflict. and if he can stem racial conflict in situations like that, what can he do when push comes to shove in this u.s. general election. now that he's explicit, he

endorsed donald trump. he can be an extremely consequential and bad actor. and i think we ought to pay a lot of attention to this. musk is not well intentioned. >> ed luce, financial times, thank you. still ahead, semafor's ben smith talking about the new piece, will kamala harris' short run kill the campaign? plus "the atlantic's" bill packer breaks down the trauma of the 1968 convention. "morning joe" is coming back.

it's time to grow your business. create a website. how? godaddy. coding... nah. but all that writing... nope. ai, done, built. let's get to work. create a beautiful website in minutes with godaddy.

(♪♪) we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45. i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting, and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections,

headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now.

mhave you been injured foon a job site?upwork call the barnes firm now. if i was injured on a job site i'd call the barnes firm. best call i could have made. i had a serious fall. i called the barnes firm. injured on a job site? call the barnes firm now. ♪ call 1-800 eight million ♪

welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, august 13th. jonathan lemire, katty kay, eugene robinson with us. joining the conversation, nbc news claire mccaskill, and george packer for atlanta atlanta, whose major piece is titled "what democrats can learn from the trauma of 1968." joe. >> what a great piece. george, thank you so much for being here. get you in here, and this --

resonates with me, personally, because i grew up in a family of life long democrats. fdr democrats. you walk into our house, and they had a picture of fdr on the wall. my grandma did. my mom said he was like a king to them. and they had good reason because they struggled through the great depression. my grandmom and granddad had four children in the depths of the great depression in rural georgia. so they were fdrs all the way. that changed in 1968. i was young, but i could see through my parents' eyes, you know. it wasn't just the convention, but it was the assassinations, the conventions, the riots, people burning their draft cards, burning the american flag. it was just all of this stuff that move might parents to the republican party.

and i love -- i love how you summed it all up. if you go back to 1968 and the riots in chicago. the big winners were the anti-war left and richard nixon. and because without the chaos in chicago, without the mass defactions, you know, hubert humphrey would have probably won the presidency, wouldn't he? >> i think that's right. historians, both at the time and since then, have said that the chaos in chicago which was later called a police riot. let's remember that the police instigated most of the violence in chicago. filled tv screens, people were watching it in realtime. they'd never seen anything like it in atelevised convention while delegates were on the floor choosing a nominee. those scenes shifted enough mill

of the voters like your parents to give the election to nixon. because as we know, it was an incredibly close election, it wasn't supposed to be. hut humphrey closed it at the end. might have been without the loss of those centrist democrats and independents. all of the democrats who stayed home and didn't vote and voted for cleaver. so the party was completely divided. tore itself apart, both on the convention floor and in the streets. and it's kind of amazing that humphrey came as close as he did, given the scenes that we're looking at right now. >> let's draw a comparison, everybody can talk about what happened last week, what happened last month, what's happened this year. and while we say all the time how quickly history is moving, it's been a sort of -- you know, we all had vertigo of sorts over

the past couple of months. still doesn't compare to 1968. it started with the offense assassination of martin luther king hundreds of cities burning. the assassination of bobby kennedy in june of that year. again, riots on college campuses, mass protests on the treat. i mean, 1968 was far different than 2024, was it not? >> yeah, absolutely. as i wrote, the issue in '68 was a war in southeast asia where 500,000 americans were fighting and dying. the issue in 2024 was the declining brain of the president of the united states. kind of a different level of drama. and of tragedy. but '68 also changed the democratic party really for good, until today, by changing

the rules of how delegates were selected. because of the chaos in chicago, the party decided to reform itself and create new rules so that party bosses, mayors in big cities like richard daley would no longer control whole state delegations. in '72 there was a whole new way of choosing delegates. it's basically the primary caucus system which we know today, in which there was guaranteed representation for groups that had been excluded. young people, women, blacks. so that really set the democratic party in the direction it's been ever since. and it became a party of activists. the party of college-educated activists. it was the end of your parents' fdr new deal democratic party. and at the beginning, bill clinton, barack obama and kamala harris. >> george, we obviously add in the assassinations of martin luther king and bobby kennedy and the attempted assassination

of donald trump. and what democrats can learn from the trauma of 1968, as you report it out, what are some things democrats can take from that experience? >> what is important, we're seeing kind of a repetition, not in a level of violence as joe says, but the fact that the party this year began to seem like a bit of a hollow shell in which the will of the voters could not be represented by party leaders. first, joe biden ran unopposed even polls showed voters didn't want him. and kamala harris, no one chose her to be the party's nominee. that happened, in '68, hubert humphrey became the nominee. it's a hollowing out, a detachment from its voters and a rebellion by alienaing voters which we'll probably see in

chicago with major protests around the convention. >> claire, let's talk about the parallels between 1968 and what george walked us through. the scenes inside that arena are going to be joyous, celebratory. we're starting to learn about the program who is speaking when. a far different scene from perhaps the convention we all imagined a couple months back. there are expected to be significant protests every day at the convention. tens of thousands of people lining the streets of chicago. we saw what happened in washington, at union station, those protests out of hand recently. what is your degree of concern, if you will, as to that split screen around the united center next week? >> well, i think you're right, i think inside united center, there's going to be maybe a handful of times there will be a very small number of people. the uncommitted delegates, i'm thinking, particularly from michigan, that are looking for

ways to express their displeasure over how the war in gaza has been expressed and the deaths of so many civilians in gaza. i think that's fine. and i think kamala harris knows how to handle that. and i think we will be a party that will certainly be a party that respects the protests on that subject. outside the arena, i don't know, you're not seeing the huge gatherings. yes. you had the very destructive protest in washington not too long ago. but i will be surprised if there are the numbers or the sustained level of confrontation that we saw in 1968. i just think most of our party knows that donald trump is not a solution to anything. not to anything. >> no. >> particularly not to the war in gaza. particularly not to get rid of bibi netanyahu. >> claire, i'm curious your thoughts on what the best

political tact is. what the best political tact will be in the future when her speeches are interrupted. now, the first day, she talked a little bit to the protesters. and then said, if you want donald trump to win, why don't you just come out and say it. i kind of like that, right? kind of feisty. i have a feeling that you and i both on the stump might have said this. go ahead, go ahead. vote for donald trump. go ahead, you do that. see how that works for you. but the next day, it was more refined. and i guess that might have been the better way for her to do it. she turned, she looked at the audience. she said, you know, we understand where you're coming from. we're working hard which is true every single day, trying to pressure netanyahu into a cease-fire. and getting the hostages home. i'll wondering what do you think her best approach to it is? the first day, the second day or a combination of both?

>> it's probably a hybrid. and i think there's no accident. if anybody thinks -- i think people are now realizing that kamala harris has been vastly underestimated. and i think her first reaction was important for the rest of the country to see. i think she had that reaction so everybody, you know, the big issue here is strength. is she strong enough to run this country? is she strong enough to go toe to toe with foreign leaders? and i think she's looking for opportunities to show the strength that she has. and that was a perfect opportunity to do that. now, she ratcheted it down at the next encounter and was certainly more respectful about understanding their position on protest. and i think going forward, you'll see some kind of hybrid. but i think she purposely knew when she was tough with them in that way, it would get carried more frequently across the country in clips. and it would show people her ability to stand up to anybody,

including people in her own party that were trying to be disruptive to her ability to give her remarks. >> yeah. and, you know, katty, claire is so right, that is a sign of strength. and there were several times, you know, when people would say, i'm not going to vote for you. great, vote for the other, i don't care. i'm not going to change. people like that. people like, this is who i am. these are your choices. if you want to elect donald trump, go ahead, vote for him. i'm not going to stop you from that. and that is a really good sign of strength. i will say, just in general, just to frame up this discussion, i don't want to get too far into it without repeating what i've said time and again, progressives repeatedly have been pragmatic during the biden years. time and time again, they've shown a level of pragmatism that

people on the right have not done. >> yeah, it's the primary showing the strength and kind of the let me finish approach that perhaps women could do with taking more often. and then also showing making sure you don't show disrespect, right? you don't want to have those protesters feel even further enraged by the fact they're not being listened to or dismissed out of hand. and as we start to see kids going back to college campuses which we will do in a week's time, i know college presidents are getting nervous that we could see this erupt again and spill over into democratic politics. george, one thing on that. an obvious difference between '68 and today is that americans were not fighting in gaza. '68, you had 500,000 out in southeast asia.

could be about glib in america? >> it's not glib at all. the passions in '68 were inconceivable today. they divided every family. whereas, today, there is a small, but passionate, vocal minority of americans deeply concerned with killing of palestinians in gaza. it was not a huge number. and only several hundred who really went there looking for a fight. and they got a fight. it doesn't take a whole lot of numbers to create scenes that look chaotic. i don't think the chicago police are going to respond the way richard daley's police did. they'll be much more restrained. but i think -- and the city is going to try to keep the protesters away from the united center, in order not to have them disrupt the convention itself. but it really -- if there's a few hundred who want scenes that look chaotic, they will get it. and that's where democrats have

to worry that even if it's a tiny fragment and the passions are not those of '68, there will still be a kind of sense that the party can't control the country. that's one of trump's arguments. that there's chaos. and if the protests lend themselves to that, then, of course, trump's going to jump on it. >> george, one other difference, i think, having been through 1968, is that, not only was there chaos in the streets, but it was a really, really divided democratic party. there were people who, you know, had been willing to go down with the ship, if he had chose ton do so with lyndon johnson, hubert humphrey was his vice president. eventually got the nomination. but there were people who were passionate about robert f. kennedy, until he was

assassinated. there were people passionate about eugene mccarthy and his anti-war stance. i don't think there's those sorts of really deep cleavages in the democratic party right now. do you think that makes a difference in what we should expect? >> yeah, a big difference. because vietnam tore the party apart. and the candidate imposed on the party by party bosses with hubert humphrey who carried the burden of the johnson war policy, no matter what his views were. which meant the kennedy and mccarthy partisans were essentially left out. that's why the scenes on the the floor of the convention were wild. there were fist fights. there were shouting matches. it was almost as turbulent as the streets. and it was that turbulence that forced the party to change its rules right on the second night

of the convention. october 27th, 1968, to say from now on, we will not choose our nominee this way. we won't do this again. we'll do it by the people in our primaries and our caucuses. and that happened in '72. that's the system we all know now today. and that system was almost a fluke. it was done in order to keep the kennedy/mccarthy people from absolutely walking out. and that had long lasting effects. >> and the convention starts just six days from now, we'll see how it plays out the new piece online for "the atlantic," george packer, good to see you. coming up next, did kamala harris accidentally stumble into a new model for a very short democratic campaign? ben smith joins us when we come right back.

at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable you'll wish you had more vist bombas.com and get 20% off your first order kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer.

go to care.com now.

what does a robot know about love? give yourself a break it takes a human to translate that leap in our hearts into something we can see and hold. etsy. with so much entertainment out there wouldn't it be great... ...if you could find what you want, all in one place? show me paris. xfinity internet customers can enjoy the ultimate entertainment experience and save on some of the biggest names in streaming, all for just $15 a month. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity.

joe biden is a failed president. he was a failed vice president. the worst president in the history -- the worst vice president in history. he's incompetent. she's incompetent. everything he's touched has been bad. everything she's touched -- bad things. can't talk. she can't talk. many in ways she's worse than

bernie. she's worse than bernie. lower i.q. individual. she happens to be a low i.q. individual, she really does, has a very low i.q. [ laughter ] >> this is like when elton john changed like three words and contended that "candle in the wind" was always about diana. it wasn't. [ laughter ] jon stewart and "the daily show" last night. since last tuesday, vice president harris and her running mate governor tim walz have seen big rallies in a number of swing states. our next guest says how the next campaign to curb that enthusiasm. ben smith here, will kamala harris' short run kill the permanent campaign. good to see you. i think we can all wish for the moment, what have we learned in the last three weeks of the

campaign? >> i think it's extraordinary, we have this condition that a presidential campaign really lasts two years and is basically going all the time. if you want to run for president, you're raising money, you're positioning yourself, governing to the degree that helps you run for president. there's a real advantage when your opponent has been slogging along for two years just jumping in. not enough time for journalists to spend months doing investigations of your past. and also, not enough time for voters to get sick of you. and i think that harris certainly right now seems to be taking advantage of that. i think if she wins, which she might not, both parties are going to look at, huh, should we restructure what we do so we jump in later. should we push primaries into the summer. >> it's obviously an unique circumstance when the president of the united states drops off and hands off and no primaries which could have started the

year before, kay kay, this is a not a partisan statement. with the campaign. >> i'm loving it, british elections, you notice it's only lasts for five weeks. the election is called, five weeks later you have. the next day, the prime minister, if he's lost, he's out of downing street and the new guy moves in. it's kind of brutal. one difference we're seeing between this campaign and a short uk-style campaign is, of course, the money. kamala harris has raised i think in the first day, in what the whole election would cost, $80 billion. part of bargain basement democracy. going furd, you're right, this is wishful thinking on our part, would the money just blow up the idea that we could have short campaigns again? i mean, if you're going to carry

on, having no limits on how much is raised, how much is spent, then presumably there's a vested interest in having as long a campaign as possible? >> that's obvious in the people who collect the money, political consultants, ad makers, television stations and perhaps those of us employed writing about it. but that is a huge difference with the uk. of course, a shorter election is cheaper. and then other big difference is your political parties are composed, sort of outsider knowledge, six oxfords. and whereas our party is totally destroyed in the candidates and nominating process which is different. >> could this, though, inspire a candidate, the past here there was talk about glenn youngkin thinking about jumps in in iowa. >> i think you see a model for getting in late.

but there are a lot of structural issues. ballot access being one of them, when the actual primaries are. and that is really up to the parties to set those things. but it does show you in this faster, faster, faster media environment that there's a real advantage to compressing your own presence. >> wishful thinking. sem fa more's ben smith, great piece. coming up, we'll look at how the harris campaign has shifted to poland and the forecast nor november's election. nate silver, 538 just posted new numbers on his substack. we'll seal you how nate's looking in this election, when we come right back. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

♪♪ why won't scout play with us anymore? he has something called osteoarthritis pain. it's joint pain that hurts him all the time. come on, scout. now, there's librela. the first and only once-monthly injection to control your dog's oa pain. veterinary professionals administering librela who are pregnant, trying to conceive, or breast feeding, should take extreme care to avoid self-injection, which could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. this is the best day of my life! reminder, bent finger appointment. i don't want to wait whor have surgery for myic reactions like anaphylaxis. dupuytren's contracture.

i want a nonsurgical treatment. and if nonsurgical treatment isn't offered? i'll get a second opinion. take charge of your treatment. if you can't lay your hand flat, visit findahandspecialist.com to get started. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need it a little cool and i need it a lot of cool. we're both cool like that. sleep number does that. actively cools and warms on each side. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house, at 7:28 in the morning. arizonians are going to have a chance to vote on abortion access their state this november. the arizona for abortion act says act is going to appear on the ballot after a group of activists nearly doubled the number of signatures required. arizona is now the seventh state that will formally include a ballot measure about abortion access in november. and at least four others have these measures pending. claire, you look at what's happening in nevada, what's happening in arizona, even

what's happening in florida, there's a constitutional amendment that's going to be on the ballot in florida, to overturn the six-week ban there. donald trump a couple days ago would not even tell people how he was going to vote on that amendment. whether he was going to vote to overturn it or not. but this, obviously, it's got to be seen as a win for democrats, as far as helping the turnout operation. and we've seen this before in 2004, in another world, it seems in 2004, republicans put on, as you remember, a series of same-sex marriage bans, hoping to get more voters out. and now, the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak. it seems that social issues like abortion actually motivate democrats more to get out and vote. how is this going to impact arizona and nevada and possibly florida? >> well, i think it's really

good news, particularly in arizona and in nevada, for the presidential race. it's great news for the senate races in all three states. first of all, it does drive voters that care about the issue but frankly have gotten very tired of divisive back and forth national politics. and keep in mind, a lot of people will tune out the last 30 days, because the commercial both online and the traditional media sources, the traffic will be so heavy and so much, that people will get very tired of hearing it. but this issue is a stand-alone issue that motivates voters. we saw it in 2022, when everyone thought it was going to be a disaster for the democrats, it turned out to be a pretty darn good election for democrats.

and florida, in florida, you can speak to this probably better than anybody, because you're on the ground there frequently, rick scott is not liked in florida. rick scott has been around florida for a long time. and has a huge amount of negatives. the candidate debbie powell running against him is just four points behind. forget about what you say about trump having locked florida up. rick scott has not locked florida up. and that is a very big deal for this country, because if the democrats don't hold the senate, even if kamala harris wins, it's not going to be easy to dot things that people want, especially around the issue of abortion. >> you're right, claire, the polling around that race in particular has republicans raising their eyebrows and worried about that seat in the senate. with several seats showing kamala harris gaining on donald trump one presidential forecaster now has vice

president harris as the slight win. nate silver 538 has his own substack called "the silver bullio bulletin" nate has the democrat to carry the blue states and a carry in nevada. where he had trump a 2 to 1 favorite to beat joe biden. nate silver joins us now, author of "on the edge, the art of risking everything." we'll get to everything. nate, it's good to see you. repping the giants. >> yeah. matsuyama played for the giants. gabe kapler. >> gabe kapler spent one month in my fantasy league as an owner. >> well, we love the hat. let's talk about your forecast, first. >> for sure. >> first, there's been a lot of talk about a vibe in shift since

joe biden got out of the race. you deal in data. what are you seeing? >> we see momentum with harris with a 2 1/2 lead in polls, more importantly being ahead in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan. >> and are women moving to kamala harris as swing voters? >> donald trump is not a popular candidate, he lost the popular vote twice. she has overperformed most people's expectations but democrats are pretty good at winning elections. they won in 2022 and 2018, maybe a league average plus democrats is good enough to beat trump. remember, the electoral twice in the last two elections gone against democrats in the popular vote. we saw trump outperform his polls by a wide margin.

if you're a poker player, that's an edge you that take, but all intents and purposes, 50/50 will top off. >> you're dealing with data. you must get frustrated at times when people are yelling at you. especially at a time like this, it's so tumultuous. the assassination attempt of donald trump was one month ago, and biden out of the race three weeks ago. things changed so fast. >> yeah, you don't always have this much news pressed into the cycle plus you have the dnc and the debate. removed from the rnc, and harris is a candidate. before this next series of nature hurdles in the race. >> you have trump as a slight favorite in arizona, georgia and north carolina. what about nevada? that was a state democrats were worried it was getting away? >> that state is slightly leaned harris. that's where biden was

struggling. i've been there a lot for gambling purposes. it's working class but diverse, you have asian american, working class people and people who have moved away from biden. the polling change was dramatic, plus 6 trump, now it's plus 1 or 2, harris may be more than that. >> the policies are very different obviously, kamala harris to joe biden, so is it just enthusiasm? is it putting to bed the age issue? >> it's 90% the age issue. biden, his ratings have gone up since he opted out because people felt it was not responsible to run for responsible at age 86. look, she has issues on immigration and border, but they've more than doubled their chance of winning eelection every month. >> claire, just a moment in time, it's still august, three weeks from now since joe biden

dropped out and handed batton effectively to kamala harris. but it has been extraordinary for all of the should we have an open convention? should we let the governors in? how quickly this party has not only rallied around but incredibly enthusiastic about kamala harris? >> yeah. it's been really fun, i think, for people who were very worried about donald trump getting in the oval office again. you know what's really interesting about this, willie, is that when trump is marginalized and cornered, his instincts are not to track to the middle or to become more reasonable in what he says. he really gets more and more bizarre. the more he feels pressured that he is losing. that's where the old, they're going to cheat thing came from, when he started worrying in april of 2020 that he couldn't

win. so, really, what would change this trajectory of these polls would be something changing in the candidates. now, the debate is a moment that could upset this momentum. but i'm trying to figure out what would really disrupt this momentum going forward for kamala harris? because i believe trump will get worse and not better, when he is confronted with reality of these polls day after day, to say nothing of the size of the crowd which is we all know, the harris crowds are his kryptonite. >> relates let's remember in 2020, when his polls showed him losing to joe biden. that's when he talked about this was rigged and rules from the pandemic. we're flagging this, he's starting to say the democrat switch going from biden to harris, using the phrase like

unconstitutional. feels like he's going to contest the laws. we should note there's nothing in the constitution about the parties but what they did was fine and legal. what people are going to flag is let's watch that rhetoric here towards november. >> yeah, he's already signaling a loss like he did last time through lies. nate, in your view, what could change over the next three months, the trajectory that you have shifting towards kamala harris? >> look, i think she's run a good campaign so far. it's proven sometimes your second is better than your first. she's faced the perception of a front-runner which is a little bit of a vibe to use that term. with press scrutiny, with the lack of press conferences, for example, it takes a lot of energy to be both vice president and run the campaign but, look, we have so many known unknowns but known unknowns. but we would have known about

covid since 2019 and the assassination of donald trump. the polling has been close. and complacency could be one potential danger, not now, but in three weeks. so, she has the convention. she's now up five, six polls in national polls and complacency could be a risk. >> she needs to face questions that she ran on last time and she said she's abandoned those. let's turn to the book "on the edge, the art of risking everything." explain, if you would, nate, to our viewers, the river and the village and how that plays into the book. >> yeah. the village could be "morning joe" east/west establishment of politics, and tends to be more democratic. the river is calculated risk takers, starts out in the world of poker. poker players are innocent.

then you meet people in crypto, people that work for hedge funds and a.i. and silicon valley. which is the tip of the sphere for the river. i like these people in some ways. competing for influence and power. and it's getting pretty bloody sometimes, right? you see some parts of the river going more and more for donald trump. everybody in california is still a blue state but you see, you know, elon musk would be a member of the river, much admired. peter thiel, for example. you see more competition. >> sam banks and how do they review their role and poking at the village? >> i think they see themselves as more contrarian. a view i have myself. college educated voters are

bluer and bluer. the contrarian institute has gotten them a little red filled. jd vance, for example, although in some ways member of the village, law school, best-selling book and i think they don't necessarily have crossover appeal to main street americans. >> so, nate, when you set up the competition between the village and the river. you say the river is winning, tell us why? >> yeah, you look at tech and finance, continuing to share the economy. the top d.c. firms do very well in terms of investment, 7 or 8% in index funds, they do a lot better than that. and they're kind of winning the cultural war, in certain ways. i don't think twitter has been a great financial risk for elon musk. journalists like me are still on twitter and enjoy pieces of the platform, but he's shifted the conversation. >> it's interesting, discussing

in the river, a move on donald trump like bill ackman and all of these things you write about. have you picked up buyer's remorse? >> you get that sense, if they have a 75% pet, when peter thiel endorsed he was playing the odds better than the polls showed so it's worth making a contrarian bet. it's not like trump, right. democrats, like i said, they're pretty good at winning elections it was so obvious they could double their odds by replacing the candidate that they did the pragmatic thing. and the gop was caught flat-footed. jd vance is defined in a way that's hard to undo. tim walz. and kamala harris and flat-footed and in a tougher

race now. >> you're right. they take risks, sometimes, risks don't pan out. we'll see. the new book "on the edge, art of risking everything" nate silver, great to talk to you. coming up, we'll have the latest in the middle east as israel braces for a retaliatory attack against iranian with the military leaders "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪♪ not every decision you make will be as good as getting a volkswagen at the savvy vw summer sales event. 2024 volkswagen models cost less to maintain than honda. get 1.9% apr financing or a $2500 customer bonus on a new 2024 tiguan.

what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. ok limu! you set it, and as i spike it, i'll tell them how liberty mutual customizes car insurance, so they only pay for what they need. got it? [squawks] did you get that? only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪ ♪liberty, liberty.♪ sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now.

[coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful.

the israeli military is on high alert this morning as it braces for potential retaliatory attacks from iran over last month's killing of hamas leader and a hezbollah commander. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the latest from northern israel. >> reporter: israel attacked this morning what it described as hezbollah military structures in lebanon, in response to hezbollah strikes on israel yesterday. but this tit for tat isn't the big one. the expected iranian retag yags likely in conflict for hezbollah of the dual aassassinations two weeks for beirut and hams leader visiting iran. the israeli military announcing last night it's now at its highest state of alert and readiness. the u.s. also concerned. >> we have been prepared for

what could be a significant set of attacks. >> reporter: but will iran call it off? in a joint statement, the united states, france, the uk and germany and italy called on iran to stand down its ongoing threats of a military attack against israel, adding the countries discussed the serious consequences for regional security. the u.s. military has made some of those consequences abundantly clear. the pentagon announcing it's speeding up the arrival of a second aircraft carrier to join a guided missile submarine and a squadron of f-22 fighters already prepositioned. the biden administration and arab mediators want to war in gaza with a cease-fire and hostage deal in talks that could resume this week unless the middle east goes up in flames. in gaza, israeli strikes continue. the hamas-run health ministry

says at least 142 people have been killed in the last 48 hours a a woman in khan yunis telling our cameramen, enough, we are tired, we can't bear it any more, she says. israel launched its war in gaza after hamas murdered around 1,200 israelis in october. israel says hamas fighters are hiding among civilians. >> nbc's richard engel reporting from northern israel. thank you very much. so, katty, the idf says it's at the highest level of alert, expecting some attack from iran, hezbollah. they say they are ready for that. you have aircraft carrier for the united states going to the region, a submarine as well. the united states sharing intelligence of course with israel about what it expects to see. we are at a perhaps a pivotal moment here? >> everybody hoping this will be a retaliation from iran was

somewhat mortified and signaled to the israelis and with a coalition of allies was intercepted. the fear is this could be much worse. antony blinken flying to the region. ninth visit since the attacks of october to the middle east. desperately strike to keep the hostage talks alive, trying to get the hostages back, and trying to work his diplomatic skills to make sure that this doesn't escalate into a full-blown war in the region. >> in ukraine, "the new york times" has new details about the surprise attack on russia by the ukrainians. the biggest foreign incursion into russia since world war ii. "the times" reports, ukrainian troops pushed tense of miles into russia and shifting the narrative of the war after a glum year in which ukraine struggled often in vain. monday the commanding general told president volodymr zelenskyy that his troops held 390 square miles of territory

inside russia's southeastern region. two dozen settlements were overrun. the offensive is intended to force russia to divert troops from a grinding fights in the donbas region, which hasn't happened so far, and gain leverage for peace talks, though none of scheduled. a bit of good news for the ukrainian military. the fact that they are able to advance in what is has been a very difficult year. >> yeah, no question good for morale on the ukrainian side. the most interesting thing here is what's not being said. the united states is not saying anything and not telling ukraine to knock it off, which earlier in the war they told kyiv we don't want you to provoke an escalation of the war. but the u.s. and other european partners have given their sort of tacit blessing to this. the ukrainians are using kit they got from nato allies in order to do this. to this point the russians stopped the ukrainian advance but haven't reclaimed any

territory yet. we have seen vladimir putin fume and publicly say that he doesn't understand why the rest of the world hasn't condemned this incursion into russia. you know, obviously, the invasion of ukraine now two and a half years old. we will see what comes of this long term. as the fighting season winds down, muddy season on the the horizon, this is a much needed win for the ukrainian military that has had a tough year. >> drags into coming up early next year into the third year of war in ukraine. still ahead. donald trump is planning to sue the justice department over the search of his south florida estate. we will go through what that could mean for the special counsel's appeal in the classified documents case. plus a former pupil of governor tim walz who has a message for the trump campaign about his old high school teacher. ", don't think you will get anywhere by trashing his

character. "morning joe's" coming right back. coming right back i have dry eye... tired, itchy, burning... my symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation—so he prescribed xiidra. xiidra works differently. xiidra targets inflammation. over-the-counter drops don't do this. they only hit pause on my symptoms. but twice-daily xiidra gives me lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. (♪♪) (♪♪)

we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45. i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com

why do couples a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. find childcare that fits your schedule sleep number does that. thank you. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue.

and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. they started as dreamers. but today, they're stars. and build a treatment follow every moment of team usa on the network that brings you legendary speed and reliability: xfinity mobile. with xfinity mobile, you'll have the most powerful mobile wifi network with you on the go with exclusive access to speeds up to a gig in millions of locations nationwide.

and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. she is terrible. she is terrible. but she is getting a free ride. on "time" magazine today she looks like the most beautiful actress ever to live.

it was a drawing, and actually she looked very much like a great first lady, melania. she looked -- she looked -- didn't look -- she didn't look like camilla. she is a beautiful woman. we'll leave it at that. >> we will. part of donald trump's conversation last night with elon musk on the x social media platform. the event delayed by significant technical issues which musk claimed was a hack. no evidence that is the case. much more on that conversation in just a moment. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, august 13. with us this morning the host of way too early white house burrow cleave jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay. editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson and columnist david french. joe, good to be with you in new york city after a parisian

escapade of three weeks. >> great to have you back. you know the question i am going to ask. we were blessed to win gold in atlanta in synchronized swimming. the saint lillehammer, few people remember lillehammer silver with synchronized skating, which was the -- i think it was inspiration for blades of to glory. i don't want to take credit for that. i think will ferrell was channeling you when he did that. but compare those events, obviously, personal for you, with what happened in paris, because i will tell you just sitting, you know, sitting in my lounger watching that, that may have been the coolest olympics i have seen, and i mean i have seen some great ones. >> you are not alone in that thought. for me, i have covered a bunch of them, by far the best olympics. not a close second. the way it was run. how team usa did. how the host country did. how france performed at its own

games. and talking to people who have done many more around nbc sports, around nbc news that than i have saying this was the best olympics they have been a part of. i thought the nbc coverage was incredible on peacock, the gold zone, red zone format from the nfl where they bounce you around to the gold medal events. you've got to watch everything you want today live. so the coverage here was great. for paris, always concerns when you drop the olympics on an old city. boy, did they accommodate them so well, using what they had, existing, obviously, beach volleyball underneath. eiffel tower. i went to fencing in the grand palais. incredible energy everywhere. the metro was flawless. got you to places you wanted to go easily. it was truly a spectacular games. there were a lot of people there from l.a. 2028 walking around seeing how things were going,

going, okay, all right, this -- a new standard has been set for how the olympics should be run. it was truly spectacular. >> yeah. really has. you look at our lower thirds, olympics gold for nbc and peacock, yay, go team, for people that haven't been around "morning joe" a long time, we aren't company men and women. in fact, i think we -- we are pretty merciless about the beijing games, especially in the first week or so. with all the pollution and everything else. but it was -- but still take that lower third down. that's just -- there you go. there you go. okay. i can talk about it. we talked yesterday. so lot of olympic glory, but also media companies struggling, and what was interesting last week was -- and you probably didn't catch it because you were in the middle of everything over there. the same week we heard that peacock was doing great

streaming-wise and historic, we heard that disney made their first profit in streaming. this is a long time people. people see the reports media companies having to fire people, lay off people, et cetera, et cetera. part of that problem is advertising revenue collapsed linear and hadn't quite made it back up with the points, they hadn't reached with streaming and suggests that the olympics may be remembered for more than just an extraordinary sports story, extraordinary event. but also a pretty big media story as well. >> yeah, it was definitely a pivot point for peacock and maybe for others that now they can launch their other products. people enjoyed the experience on peacock. like i said, it was even for me, when you can't get out to all the venues, you call up peacock, click on the icon, whatever the sport is, and this it is. it was very well done. one other point that i would -- had been thinking about a lot since i left paris a couple of

days ago, a bigger idea is, coming back to our politics right where it is when i left, where it was, is just the spirit of the games. i know it sounds corny and all that. you see the athletes from all over the world from different countries cheering for themselves, cheering for each other, hugging each other when they lose, supporting each other, the positivity, the patriotism and the things that come with the olympics that we are accustomed to see in contrast to what we live through every day, we talk about the politics. people in the world are not behaving the way some of our politicians behave, i would -- this is the best of us, these olympic athletes. they work their entire lives for these moments. when they lose, they shake their hand, say i will be here at the next olympics. that vibe -- i know we only get to capture it for two and a half weeks of the olympics was extraordinarily refreshing in contrast to our politics. >> yeah.

i am glad you said our politics. not even our country. a point we try to make all the time. america is doing great. by the way, i said this when donald trump was president. i said it when barack obama was president. i said it when george w. bush was president, even though so many problems, obviously, with donald trump, also idealogically the other guys i mentioned. we are stronger than ever economically, we are stronger than ever militarily, stronger than ever culturally, everything. we fed and freed more people than any other country on the planet. americans are good people. right now or politics divide us. we need to move past that. we have got to stop this red and blue sort of a black and white choice, and i think we can do that. but what you're talking about, willie, it's like at the beginning of the games people tried to politicize it, they

tried at the end of the games. americans are like, i want to see katie ledecky swim. you know, keep your politics and your culture wars, keep that on your little blog in your mom's basement. i'd like to see simone biles. i'd like to see the basketball team. on and on. it's just, yeah, it was pretty inspiring. >> and if you doubt the power of the olympics, watch the professional athletes who have all the fame and the money and the success they could want in the world, watch the way steph curry and lebron james, the two biggest stars in basketball, how they emoted during and after that game, what it meant to them. watch scottie scheffler, the best golfer in the world cry on the medal stand as they play the national anthem. novak djokovic, the greatest player in tennis, collapse to the ground after he won his gold medal. it really is something different. it really is something powerful the olympic games. >> it really is. we have so much to talk about

this morning. and i want to talk to david french in a minute. but i have got to say, gene robinson, i am going to start with "the wall street journal" editorial page. i agree with a lot of things they say. i disagree with a lot of things they say. i am a bit befuddled with one of their editorials today, and it actually -- it hits on a topic that actually drove me to congress 30 years ago, that is deficits, debt, fiscal irresponsibility. we have a $35 trillion debt right now. nobody seems to care about it. but their editorial today suggests that donald trump should lecture kamala harris on deficits. >> mm-hmm. >> this -- donald trump -- and

anybody that's watched the show knows, donald trump has the worst fiscal record of any president in the history of the country. you can go back and look at documents from donald trump's treasury department. they lay it out very clearly, even before covid. he was exploding the deficit. i tweeted something this morning as i was getting ready for the show after i read this, and it shows a line of the deficit going down like this under barack obama. going down from the 2008 collapse. then shooting back up the second donald trump becomes president of the united states. so, again, i am all for fiscal responsibility. in fact, that's sort of -- again, that's what got me into this business in the first place. but to suggest that donald trump should lecture anybody on the deficit instead of writing an

editorial talking about he was the most fiscally reckless president in u.s. history. he accumulated and amassed more debt in four years than america did, the republic did the first 225 years of existence. you know, that's the editorial to write and ask whether he is going to be any different if elected over the next four years. >> yeah. of course, it wouldn't be any different. donald trump has never cared about the deficit at all. as you say, he was the biggest spender of -- certainly one of the biggest spenders in american history. however you look at it in absolute terms, per capita, whatever, he was a huge spender. he cut, slashed revenue for the government with his big tax cuts. he didn't offset it with any

actual budget cuts. in fact, he doesn't like budget cuts. he wants to spend more. so he is absolutely the last person in the world you would ask to come in and fix a deficit. and that actually is true. you look at the cycle over the last 20, 30, 50 years, if you want to cut the deficit, elect democrats. they are supposed to be big spenders, but the deficits go down. and if you want bigger deficits and more debt, elect the republicans. they like to spend that money. and donald trump is certainly of that ilk. >> the only time republicans hear about deficits is when democrats are in the white house. then when they are in the white house, deficits explode at record rates some of the, willie, actually, willie, if you could, love for you to read this david french piece.

i want to circle back to david. before we read your piece for "the new york times," i want to say this is what is maddening to me. the very things that made you and me conservatives, the things that moved us to the republican party, the things that made us believe we were fighting for right whether it was, you know, whether it was -- i am more boring, but balanced budgets, fiscal responsibility, taking care of taxpayers' dollars, giving them, like, the best bang for their buck, making government as efficient as possible. you know, having the local government do what the local government can do and can't, the state government do what they can and can't and the federal governments what they do. you are worried about individual freedoms, individual liberty, individual rights to go out, work hard, make a living, you know, make a life where your kids have it better than you do and they have a better opportunity than you even had, right? that's gone, man.

that is gone. and when i hear people talking about, you are not a conservative, it's laughable because what we're seeing now, we are seeing idol worship for -- i don't want to say a guy. it's a party now. it's a party. they are not conservative. they are not fiscally conservative. they are not conservative on foreign policy. they have two candidates that want to turn ukraine over to the russians. the anthesis of everything that ronald reagan fought for. that republicans have always fought for. there is nothing conservative about this republican party. and, david, i just have to ask, if they lose again this year, is -- okay. here we go. the question i was going to ask, if they lose this year, is there a chance that they are going to

go back to more tried and true burkean, reagan-esque principles. you are looking direct from joe's twitter account. a joke i made this morning after reading the op-ed, in blue, that is left-wing socialist, communist, whatever you want to call him, left wing, like, marxist barack obama's deficit record. by the way, it goes down. it goes straight down. so all those things republicans said about him, obviously, not true. now, if you look right after barack obama left office -- by the way, four years pre-covid. look at deficits under donald trump. david, they go straight up. that's not conservative. >> yeah. absolutely. you know, one of the things

that's happening is you have maga seized control of the republican party intentionally transforming it radically. not just on a policy basis, a character basis, calling the old republican party the dead consensus, and if you object they say, what happened to you? in other words, they are pulling the party away and accusing anyone who objects of being a traitor. this has been the dynamic for nine years now. here's what's stunning, joe. i think some of your viewers just would be amazed by this. there are still many, many, many republicans who don't realize how different maga is from traditional republicanism. there is still many republicans who believe they are voting for at least strong elements of the older party. and trump benefits immensely from this, even as maga just keeps changing it. >> yeah, willie.

look at that. >> it's clear. stark in that graphic there. you have a piece out for "the new york times," david, to save conservatism from itself i am voting for harris. while there are voters experiencing a degree of trump nostalgia, remembering life pre-covid, there is a different and darker story to tell about trump's first term. our social fabric frayed. the murder rates skyrocketed, drug overdose new highs, marriage rates fell, birth rates declined. i am often asked by trump voters, if i'm still conservative and i respond that i can't vote for trump precisely because i am conservative. the only real hope for restoring a conservatism that values integrity, demonstrates real compassion and defend our foundational constitutional principles isn't to try to make the best of trump, a man who

only values himself. if he wins al val date his cruelty and idealogical transform algs of republican party. if harris wednesday, conservative americans will have a chance to build something decent from the ruins of a party that was once a force for genuine good in american life. i will let you expand on that. joe talks about it all the time. i am still conservative. it's the party, the trumpists that have changed. >> yeah. absolutely. and it's not just that the party's changed, but events, things changed. in 2016, in 2020, i voted third-party. i wrote in. i couldn't vote for the democrat. i was not going to vote for donald trump. there is some things that changed since 2020. one of them was january 6th, which illustrated the links that donald trump would go, destructive lengths to our constitutional order that donald trump would go. when russia invades ukraine you

see the incredible stakes for the international order, for american national security, and on both of those paramount issues trump is not just on the wrong side in many ways, especially here domestically, he is the instigator of the crisis itself. and so if you're dealing with changed events, i feel like it's incumbent on me to be open to changing my mind on one element of my stand, and that is in this case to vote for the party that at the very least is going to stand against russian aggression. joe, you know, saying that outloud that i am voting against a republican to make sure that the united states resists russian aggression is again one of those moments you can't believe how much things have changed. >> no. it's a surreal moment. and i have explained to people before, i explained when donald trump was president that i have always had great faith in

america, and many people say -- and they do. many people say i am too optimistic. i'm -- it's too glass half full. my feeling has been that madisonian democracy rounds off the sharp edges. when donald trump was president and people go, oh, this is all about, you know, ideology. no. you don't understand. i said it's about respecting constitutional boundaries. i am fairly confident that everybody from mike pence to bernie sanders would respect constitutional boundaries, and if mike pence were president or bernie sanders were president, i'd worry much less than if donald trump were president because, again, madisonian democracy, checks and balances, separation of powers, that rounds off the sharp edges. we could survive four years of somebody who is very conservative or very liberal.

our problem here is someone who just doesn't respect constitutional boundaries and brags about being authoritarian to his supporters. you know, the truth is, i agree with david. there are a lot of people who think that this is like clinton versus dole in 1996. but there are quite a few republicans i talk to that like the authoritarian streak in donald trump. they like the strong man approach. >> mike pence put his own life in danger, put his family's life in danger in order to protect and defend the bounds of constitutional democracy. it's night and day from the former president who is now running again telling christian conservatives don't worry, you won't have to vote again in four years time because i will have it all fixed. and who knows? donald trump says stuff that is random and makes no sense and maybe it was just another thing he says that is random and makes no sense. it's striking when you have a

candidate running for president of the united states who is telling his supporters, telling american voters you will not have to vote again in four years' time. the implication being that there will not be an election in four years' time. i am one of those people who thinks that the american guardrails hold and that the courts are strong and the press is strong and that there will be an election in 2028 and there are an awful lot of democrats who believe there will be an election in 2028 because they want to run in 2028. it's very different and it's all about donald trump. david, when you look at kamala harris' record as a conservative and i know you have got probably fellow conservatives voting for her and i know people in the conservative wing of the republican party who have enforced her and you look at her record on things like immigration or as a prosecutor in san francisco or what she has said about a single parent health system or ending fragging in pennsylvania and she resome

of that reflections of her liberalism is it a hard for you to say you are going to vote for her? >> it is actually. i am encouraged should he is disclaiming the fund the police stuff and fracking bans, endorsing the border bill, for example. concrete ways, she is moving more to the middle. and that is somewhat reassuring. but, yeah, at the end of the day, if she wins the presidency, there are a lot of policy issues that we would disagree on. a lot of policy issues. there are some we'd agree on. support for ukraine. but we can -- as joe is just saying, we can have that conversation and there are other elections i can vote in, like for senate or for house, that can blunt the effect of her more left-wing policies. but we are do it within the norms of american democracy, within the rules of american democracy, and nen then in the next election if she has gone too far i will vote a different direction.

but we can't treat this -- this is a core element of my piece. we cannot treat this like a regular election where some of the policy issues dictate our vote. there are other front line, top-tier issues like respect for american democracy, defense in maintaining -- defending and maintaining american al thrice that are just at this very high level, and we can't pretend they are not there. >> as david lays out in the piece, the republican party now unrecognizable from what it was just a few decades ago. in terms of the foreign policy and some matters here at home, willie, the great question, unanswerable question is, what happens next? even if donald trump were to do be defeated this fall, does that mean trumpism goes away? some in the republican party say we will be rid of him, let's move on, rebirth this party into something new for 2028. i don't know there is a guarantee of that. he is still going to be the

loudest voice in the party most likely. his running mate is set up to be a loud voice in the party going forward. the maga movement has captured so many state and local officials, statehouses, congress, the house of republicans, house of representatives in particular. i don't know that even if trump were defeated in november the party would be able to rid itself of this movement. >> this is the party right now. the maga movement. it might look different. it might have a different name in 2028. i don't know we can just take faith that it will go pack to what it was. >> tens of millions regular supporters onboard. as long as we are inside the editorial pages, jerry baker bright writing this morning, trump is looking like a loser again, talk about the press conference last week that he calls false, obtuse, and lunatic. we are going to get into more of that if "the wall street journal" in a moment. still ahead, we will hear more from donald trump's two-hour griffin-filled interview with billionaire elon musk including what he said about a conversation with russian president vladimir putin.

"morning joe's" back in just 90 seconds.

♪♪ former president trump and x

owner elon musk engaged a conversation last night on the platform with 1.3 million people listening on x spaces at the peak the event deployed 40 minutes by technical problems. musk blamed a cyber a attack, a claim that couldn't be verified called into doubt by a number of experts. once it got underway, the pair spoke more than two hours with trump doing most of the talking. here is a little of what he had to say. >> i hate to say this, the reason the numbers are much bigger than you would think is they're also taking their non-productive people. now, these aren't people that will kill you, we have none of them. they are just non-productive. for whatever reason, they are not workers or they don't want to work or whatever. and these countries are getting rid of non-productive people into caravans in many cases and they are also getting rid of their murderers and drug dealers

and people that are really brutal people. and they are coming into our country at levels that have never been seen before. i know putin very well. i got along with him very well. he respected me. it's one of those things. and he -- we would talk a lot about ukraine. it was the apple of his eye. i said don't ever do it. don't ever do it. you can't do it vladimir. you do it, it's going to be a bad day. you cannot do it of the i told him things that what what i do, and he said, no way. and i said, way. >> the highest level of diplomacy there. >> come on! no way. >> way! wow. >> who was that? zappa valley girl? >> i think so, yeah. >> channeling moon unit there. no way. >> and he is so proud of his relationship with vladimir putin.

won't come off that position. he loves the guy. i hope you didn't listen to all two hours. we listened to a bunch of it, mostly rambling, once donald trump talking. and painting this american carnage dark, dark picture of america contrasted with the enthusiasm and crowds from the harris campaign. >> and shades of yalta with the diplomacy, way and no way with vladimir putin. trump was not challenged once during the interview. elon musk made twitter access to a trump-friendly platform, endorsed him and he said ahead of time, i want to have a conversation. it's about vibes. that's what we got last night. a vibe established there by donald trump standing in front of a portrait of himself in tennis gear as he did this two-hour twitter space interview. you hit on something important. vibes matter right now. that might not be enough to carry side or the other to election day. right now it is a stark

difference, gene robinson, where we are seeing footage night after night of the vice president and her running mate having joyous rallies, people are laughing, smiling, dancing to beyoncé before she takes the stage. trump, on the other hand, two hours -- he was a little more controlled on his rhetoric last night. he seemed to slur his words a little bit. you could see with the portrait behind him. he paint add a very dark distaupe i can picture of america that the threats and danger lurking around every corner. at this moment it appears that's not a message that's resonating with the actual voters who are going to decide this election. >> yeah. how can you imagine the people wouldn't resonate to that picture of that dark room with trump there and that weird portrait in the tennis outfit in the background, which is just, you know owe, talk about

dystopic. i don't know how that is turning voters on. it's incredible the contrast right now. and it's driving trump crazy. you know, he is searching and searching and trying to find a way in to the conversation because he's just sort of babbling into the void in a lot of instances, and, you know, we have seen the recent times he goes out in public and just says foolish and nonsensical and ridiculous and worrisome things, worrisome about his own mental health. i guess if you want to look in political terms, maybe he was trying to get back the white dude vote or to shore it up by doing this thing with elon musk, figuring that was the demographic he was going to reach, you know, kind of fans of elon musk and his political transformation or metamorphosis,

whatever it was. but i just -- boy, you know, if you sort of babble for two hours into the void, you know, does it actually make a sound? i am not convinced that it did. i was going to listen to the thing. i just gave up after 40 minutes when they couldn't make it work. so that kind of tells you a bit about the elon musk/donald trump show. >> coming up, a new op-ed in "the wall street journal" titled trump is looking like a loser again. david french weighs in straight ahead on "morning joe." ing joe.

kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer. go to care.com now. the season finale is upon us. huzzah! libations? help thy yourself. thou keep this dog food in thy fridge. oh, it's not dog food, it's freshpet. real meat, real veggies. for thy beast? thy what now?

wait! wait! wait! there's always a betrayal in the finale. freshpet. it's not dog food, it's food food. you've done the work and deserve credit betrayal where credit is due.e. at university of phoenix, we'll help you get every eligible transfer credit you deserve to finish your business degree. so, whether you're in school or picking up where you left off, your college experience matters. see how a transfer friendly university can help you earn your business degree faster and for less. transfer your credits and finish what you started. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all these plans include a healthy options allowance,

a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

♪♪ ♪♪

so i mentioned the new column from "the wall street journal" columnist gerard baker, trump is looking like a loser again. he writes, quote, we need to be clear about the problem. it is as some suggested mr. trump has been wrong-footed by the democrats' switch from biden to harris, nor a reflection of decelerated generation. trump has looked and sound sounded like the trump of nine years ago. this is the problem. it is this mr. trump who lost the presidency in 2020. it is this mr. trump who lost the house in 2018 and the senate in the george runoff election in january 2021. instead of telling voters consistently when they are actually get going they vote democrat, he is merely reminding them what they will get again if they vote republican. joe, gerard baker is no fan of vice president harris and her agenda, but he is saying if this is the donald trump we see

through election day, according to to jerry baker, he is going to lose? >> and this is a concern that republicans across the board are expressing right now. some behind closed doors. some outwardly. we have clips of people who have been big supporters of donald trump through the years sort of trump media far-right wing media. and basically encouraging donald trump to change tact. donald trump famously said to those donors, i am who i am. but i will say, david french, we always say it's early. you know, january of last year, it's early. march, it's early. i was saying the same in june and july. still early. still saying it's only august. but i will say, in august it is getting awfully late for somebody like jerry baker to write a column like that. unlike you, he is not going to

vote for kamala harris and he probably will not vote for any democrats. at the same time, he says what everybody is whispering, and that is, donald trump -- what did he say? one-third of what donald trump said in the press conference was delusional, outright false, et cetera, et cetera. so this is sort of -- i don't know if it's a canary in a coal mine or what is. when you have lost jerry baker in mid-august as a republican nominee, you know, there is trouble brewing. >> oh, yeah. well, you know, a lot of republicans right now are in kind of in a state of shock the trump campaign hasn't found their footing in taking on kamala harris weeks after joe biden dropped out. a lot of republican confidence rested in this idea that there was this super professional trump campaign that even if trump himself was undisciplined, then he at least could take on

somebody like kamala, could at least take on, of course, joe biden. a lot of people are gobsmacked there hasn't been an intentional strategy rolled out against kamala harris other than this sort of berzerker trump going from thing to thing and emphasizing her race. and so there is just this growing sense that, oh wait, maybe there was not a plan b here and they are making this up on the fly and you are beginning to see a lot of it that coming out in commentary. >> yeah. the words jerry baker using, false, obtuse or lunatic in describing that press conference. the remarks he made at the press conference at mar-a-lago the other day. "new york times" columnist david french, we will be reading your piece at nytimes.com. next, more on elon musk. our next guest says the tesla ceo is a danger to democracy. a look at the latest piece for

the financial times when "morning joe" comes right back. one thing we know is true: no matter race, gender, ethnicity... the need to screen when due... for colon cancer's a priority. indeed! everyone 45+ at average risk should screen for colon cancer. these folks are getting it done at home with me, cologuard. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way. ♪♪ did you know that 96% of customers recommend the hartford? boy that's higher than most movie ratings.

and those who switched to the aarp auto insurance program from the hartford? they saved hundreds. for the savings, benefits and best in class claims experience you deserve. make the switch today. to get your free quote call or click today. the buck's got your back. (♪♪) we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45.

i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com

♪♪ ♪♪ i saw something in the "financial times" that really underlined how much the political world is shifting underneath all of us right now, and that was the question about who americans trust more on the economy. to talk about that, national editor for the "financial

times," ed luce. ed, financial times university of michigan asked, who do you trust more to handle the economy? joe biden always behind donald trump. sometimes double digits. here i know you were surprised as i was, and the surprise, so many other americans were, but that number for the first time in this long campaign between donald trump and either biden or harris has shifted with the democrats ahead by one point. it's a statistical tie. but again even that is a massive shift. >> yeah, it is. and it's not as if there has been a dramatic change in people's economic fortunes in the last three, four weeks. it's the same economy as when they were last asked the question. i think is down to the sort of sense of energy and dare i use that overused word joy that we are getting from the harris/walz campaign that is giving people

more confidence in kamala harris as somebody who could improve their prosperity. nothing has actually changed objectively in terms of the economic numbers or people's personal finances in the last three weeks. what has changed is the mood. and i think we had, i guess, a vibe session while biden was president. people just were not prepared to look at their circumstances in an upbeat light, and now they are all of a sudden. and that's, i guess, in a nutshell, what's happened across the board politically in the last three or four weeks. >> we have been talking elon musk and that conversation he had for more than two hours on x last night. your new piece in the "financial times" is titled, elon musk and the danger to democracy. the key question is what democracies can do to address the danger for musk. the owner of a television station pushing their biases in

their outlets. had always happened and it's protected speech. i have no idea what the best legal remedy would be that was consistent with democratic and free speech values. i do know whatever he says musk is no fan of either. he revels in conflict and is fascinated by the possibility of collapse. he is a disaster capitalist, a vicious troll and brilliant engineer rolled into one. katty kay, obviously, this is a man who made clear his intention to support donald trump as he did giving him an open forum last night to millions of people. elon musk is on the side of donald trump in this election. >> yeah. whether he is a brilliant engineer after that 40 minutes we spent listening to clanky music, i am not sure. maybe he fired too many brilliant engineers and they couldn't get it working again. what do you think in terms of the impact on some voters who might have sat through that 40-minute glitch last night and actually listened to the content

of the interview, what impact do you think elon musk has sort of on voters in particular and on this election? >> well, you're right about the engineering. if you can't get spaces working, you know, you will have trouble settling mars. look, only about 1.3 million people listened to this. it took an age to begin. and i was one of those who waited around for it to begin. of course, it never end. it just went on and on. it wasn't an interview. it was a very softball quite eccentric conversation between a donor and his candidate. none of the tough questions were asked. musk tried to sort of push some of his hobbyhorses like controlling spending, which trump would hear nothing of. trump is not into controlling spending. but i think the net effect here is really just to confirm what we saw in trump's press conference in mar-a-lago last week and when he addressed the

national association of black journalists a couple of days before, which is that he isn't resetting. he is not a new trump. he is not a disciplined, razor-like focused new candidate who is going to define kamala harris. he is as somebody else made the analogy, he is like spinal tap on tour. an aging rock band on tour playing its greatest hits. i don't think he is going to come up with anything new. >> coming up, our next guest is a former student of governor tim walz who just wrote a memo to the trump campaign. what he wants republicans to know about the schoolteacher turned vice presidential contender. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe."

why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need it a little cool and i need it a lot of cool. we're both cool like that. sleep number does that. actively cools and warms on each side. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

coming up, there could be a government shutdown just weeks before the november election. before the november election while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now.

you'll find them in cities, towns and suburbs all across america. millions of americans who have medicare and medicaid but may be missing benefits they could really use. extra benefits they may be eligible to receive at no extra cost. and if you have medicare and medicaid, you may be able to get extra benefits, too, through a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. call now to see if there's a plan in your area and to see if you qualify. all of these plans include doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage. plus, something really special, the humana healthy options allowance. your allowance. to help pay for essentials like eligible groceries, utilities and rent. even over-the-counter items. and whatever you don't spend gets carried over to the next month. plus, with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan you'll get other important benefits. all of these plans include dental coverage. with two free cleanings a year. plus, fillings, and a yearly

exam. vision coverage, including eye exams and a yearly allowance for eye wear. and hearing benefits. including routine hearing exams and coverage toward hearing aids. you'll also get free rides to and from medical appointments. best of all, you'll pay nothing for covered prescriptions, even brand name ones, all year long. and zero dollars for many routine vaccines at in-network retail pharmacies. plus, you'll have access to humana's large networks of doctors and specialists. so, if you have medicare and medicaid, call now to see if there's a plan in your area that will give you extra benefits, including an allowance to help pay for essentials. plus, no-cost for covered prescriptions. and coverage for routine dental, vision and hearing. a knowledgeable, licensed humana sales agent will explain your coverage options. and, if you're eligible, help you enroll over the phone. it's that easy! call today and we'll also send this free guide. humana. a more human way to healthcare.

reportedly, in private, he's even worse with insiders describing him as knocked off his bearings, disoriented and

struggling to get past his anger. well, of course he's grieving. no, listen. he's grieving for his lost lead over joe biden. he's going through the trump stages of grief. it goes anger, anger, denial that you're angry, anger and nugget bucket. [ laughter ] >> sounds delicious. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. former president donald trump and elon musk had a wide-ranging conversation on x last night. the event was marred by technical problems at the beginning, but the discussion lasted for more than two hours. maybe rambling is the better word. garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: donald trump overnight making a return to his old favorite megaphone, taking

part in a conversation with elon musk. musk endorsing trump with the friendly discussion, which began about 30 minutes late, plagued by technical difficulties. the former president railing against vice president kamala harris. >> we cannot have her. she's incompetent. she's as bad as biden. >> reporter: discussion his own negotiations with vladimir putin over ukraine. >> i said, don't do it. i told him things, what i do. and he said, no way. and i said way. >> reporter: mr. trump mispronouncing harris' name as he brought up a recent "time magazine" cover. >> actually, it was a drawing. she looked like a great first lady melania. she didn't look like camilla.

>> reporter: taking aim at president biden. >> this is a coup. he didn't want to leave. we can do it the nice way. we can do it the hard way. >> reporter: trump praising musk, who's had mass firings and layoffs at his companies. >> that's all right. they're all gone. >> reporter: trump's entire campaign is in service of people like elon musk and himself, self-obsessed rich guys who will sell out the middle class and who cannot run a live stream in 2024. >> there you go. joining us at the table molly jong-fast. and anchor of "the beat" on msnbc ari melber. jonathan lemire with us as well, as always. so two hours on x, 40 minutes

false start as they figured out the technical glitches. it seems these big raucous rallies for the vice president of the united states, a message of positivity and hope. then you listen to message and it sounds like we're back to american carnage, which is the country is a hellhole, going off on wild tangents, a contrast the harris campaign is happy to have. >> it's a striking comparison. there is a true contrast here. with biden exiting the race, the age gap has flipped. twitter has a word limit. people know that. they exceeded the word limit. if you're friends with the owner and he wants to host you -- elon musk makes a big point of arguing he's invited a lot of people, but most of the actual town hall forums have been with

republicans. politically you say, okay, did this break through in some way in a positive? are you getting attention for what you said, or are you getting a lot of messy attention for the problems and whatever musk claims that somehow it was a technical issue spawned by their opponents. we'd have to look into that and verify that. we haven't been able to do that yet. the rallies on the harris/walz side have broken into the culture. they've taken on a momentum of their own. we don't know whether that will all manifest in november. you can get very excited for something in the summer and then get tired of it later. it shows some of the largest crowds and organic enthusiasm we've seen, added with

grassroots fundraising, and these are high points over 30 years. >> it remains stunning after seeing what happened last night or the press conference at mar-a-lago last week. republicans who like donald trump say, if we can just get him to focus on the issues. have you been watching donald trump for the last decade? it ain't gonna happen. >> you look at truth social about a.i.-generated crowds. that's what, i'm sure, was the final straw for people like jerry baker, who wrote today, if you look at his press conference and about a third of it was bonkers or factually untrue.

there's something i haven't understood about donald trump's political approach from the very beginning. there's just this narrow focus. once again, there seems to be this narrow focus where donald trump is playing in between the 45 yard lines. we'll just say at the end. you know, it's very narrow casting. so you do something with elon musk. you know exactly what you're going to get, but it's going to be the same people, who a lot of whom actually believe the a.i. lies and believe the crazy stuff and they're already there. all of this is going to, i suspect, if kamala harris wins, i suspect there are going to be a lot of people like pauline

kale in 1942 saying how could he have won? i don't know the single person who voted for nixon. >> trump won in 2016 by turning out low propensity voters who were his core base. they were people it was very hard to poll for. they just weren't necessarily voters, but they were galvanized by him. now i think he's sort of stuck on that same way of doing it, so he thinks he can turn out more of these low-propensity voters and they'll be enough. but he never tried to grow the electorate, which is what all winning presidents have done. so being uninterested, unwilling or unable to grow the electorate may hurt him. >> his team is suggesting they are going after young men, white young men, young men of color. they feel like these events

could lead to this. but we're seeing it transform in the polls. we have a long way to go until the election. trump advisors feel some of the fundamentals still favor them. right now, we are in a vibes moment right now, all harris, all harris, all harris. you've been looking at even the rallies and the feel around them. there's a pent-up enthusiasm that they brought to the surface. are they ready to go to the ballot box? >> we're all interested in civic life and politics. we think that's great. we tell people in the next generation, pay attention, read, vote. that's great. that's not everybody. most people in august are not doing that.

because of how quickly it happened, i think it does show something that can't exactly be faced. we've all been around campaigns. when cuevo and megan thee stallion throw up in talent, they're really enthused. there isn't a third scenario where you had a five-week outreach campaign. i think that is up against going on x, going on right-wing streaming. trump did do aidan ross, scored a rolex. that's a different type of format. we don't give out rolexes here. sorry. that is in contrast to something that is exciting. i don't know that we're at obama, but it's definitely some

of the obama vibes. i covered that campaign on the plane. these memes which touch on things that we see in the coalition, young people, minorities, women's rights, abortion rights, that's the political side. it also touches on the joy and the tim walz-iification of everything. a lot of what's happening viral on tiktok we're seeing people are making stuff because they're excited. then the campaign smartly and quickly will say yes and change the color scheme or tap into it. but they're responding. positive campaigns tend to be a dialogue, not a monologue. >> crowd sizes don't always translate to votes, but we look

back to 2008, and it certainly showed that barack obama had moved from politics to poplar culture. i remember james carville driving in biloxi and seeing lines of people waiting to get in to see donald trump seven or eight hours before he spoke. as james said back then, he said, man, something's happening out there. like when people are standing around that long, something's happening out there. same thing that's happening now. something's happening now when lifelong republicans are telling me that they and their daughters want to drive four hours to see a kamala harris/tim walz rally. the key is, do those rallies -- do those translate into votes?

there was a big question in 2016 whether those rallies translated into votes, because unlike barack obama in 2008, donald trump didn't really have a great ground game, right? i will say in 2024 kamala harris does have a great ground game, because jen o'malley started building it for joe biden years ago. that's what she's an expert at, and that's what they've been investing at. you add that and the other additions to the campaign, chances are good they're going to translate this sort of pop cultural moment into votes in november. >> the harris campaign was able to plug in directly to an existing network and benefit from it and raise extraordinary amounts of money. i have sort of an interesting point of view from this, because i was gist at the olympics for three weeks. the day i left for the olympics was the day after joe biden

dropped out of the race. i was supposed to leave a day earlier. he drops out. we stay and do "morning joe" for a couple days and then i go. it was still an open question of whether this experiment of his dropping out was going to go, how kamala harris was received in the democratic party. i've watched from afar those rallies for three weeks. i've watched as donald trump has fumbled to try to respond to kamala harris now as the democratic candidate to be president. it's been pretty extraordinary. again, we're in the the middle of august. a lot can happen between now and then. but at the very least, democrats have what they hoped, which is a real shot to win. their hopes were fading under joe biden. you knew the age thing wasn't going away. you weren't going to get this enthusiasm at rallies from democrats. >> one thing that happened when biden dropped out, he almost

immediately endorsed here like an hour later. you'd talk to people in the campaign and say what's going to happen. they'd say, he says to her, if you want to honor me, you'll make her president. so that was a really clear message people in the campaign got, which was, this is still my campaign spiritually. >> donald trump says he's seeking $115 million in damages from the united states government following the august 2022 search of his mar-a-lago residence that uncovered batches of classified documents. nbc news obtained a copy of the legal notice yesterday filed by a donald trump attorney. it reveals the former president's plan to sue the department of justice and fbi while accusing special counsel jack smith of carrying out a malicious political prosecution

aimed at affecting the electoral outcome to prevent president trump from being reelected, end quote. they also say the doj's process was unconstitutional, of course. they went and got the documents after askingpolitely for a long time. they had to get a search warrant to get in. any merit to this lawsuit? >> may i be frank? >> please. >> there is chutzpah, but this is just stupid. they're not going to get anything. i can tell you that straight up. this was a lawful search, overseen through the prosecution process, and as warrants are done in this country, through judicial approval in advance. unlike situations where -- and they do come up -- police and investigators run roughshod. this already had required judicial oversight. sometimes that happens and you

don't find the contraband, in this case, stolen documents. they found the contraband. it was all over the place. we've all seen it. that did not mean much about the if he'd be convicted earlier. no other president has seen these type of arguments. at the trial level, sure, open mind. but at this level, this was legal, it was overseen. i would not expect any rational judge to award any money to him for this. again, this is totally bananas. >> expert legal analysis from the great ari melber, this is stupid. >> this is stupid. >> watch "the beat" tonight and every weeknight at 6:00 p.m.

eastern. the july producer index, the measure of wholesale prices released just moments ago, it rose .01%, slightly lower than expected. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. andrew, great to see you. help us understand what this number means. >> what it means is we're having a little bit less inflation, and that's a good sign. however, it muddies the waters in some ways as to how jay powell and the federal reserve may react come september. we've talked about whether they're going to lower interest rates bring 25 basis points or more aggressively than that. do they lower them by 50 basis points? that is the fundamental question. the fed, i think, increasingly

looking less at the inflation picture and more at the labor issue, which is to say where is unemployment going? that may become the new priority for the federal reserve. i should also mention we had a number of big companies, including home depot come out today saying they're expecting the next couple quarters to be harder than anticipated. that is going to be weighing on the federal reserve, because if it's choppy out there, it's going to be tougher for unemployment. the dual mandate of employment and inflation, employment is going to become the big issue. >> let's talk about starbucks. >> big news.

>> wild ride, more downs than ups, but there have been a couple of spikes in the stock pricing. what's going on? >> so this morning the ceo of starbucks, who's only been there for a year, officially now out, and he has been replaced by brian nichols. brian nichols has been the ceo of chipotle. he's done an extraordinary job at chipotle. starbucks had challenges with labor and also pricing. they had a whole number of problems where they missed their guidance a number of times, in part because they priced people out of the market. you know, during this inflationary period they were raising prices, raising prices, raising prices. the consumer were struggling.

brian nichols coming in, the stock up about 15% on the back of this news. interestingly, since he's now leaving chipotle, chipotle stock down 7 or 8% on the back of this news. the long time leader of this company had been critical of the current starbucks, saying they had lost their way, lost their culture. you walk into a starbucks today. it's a totally different experience than it used to be. most of the baristas are so jammed that the human connection and experience has almost gone away. there were a number of activist investors that started buying the stock with the intention of trying to get themselves on the board. this may halt that, or at least there might be a temporary honeymoon period where they're able to say give us some time to figure this out.

in the world of fast food and convenience, this is huge, huge news. >> i'm curious. what does wall street think of kamala harris? just based on the last three weeks, what you've been hearing, not so much on camera, but off camera, the choice kamala harris versus donald trump? because obviously, if you just look at straight capitaism until you start looking at the disruption and the very thing ceos hate the most, and that is unpredictability, and that is donald trump. he's a threat to democracy if he does what he says he's going to do, but he's also a threat to the type of american capitalism that we've grown up with, in my

opinion, just because of the destruction and his view that a president should be able to pick winners and losers. >> there's been a lot of concern about former president trump and what he would do if he made it to the white house. the comments over the weekend concerned a lot of folks on wall street where he said explicitly he'd want to have a greater hand in the federal reserve. we'd heard it speculated about, but he said it on the record, on camera. that itself makes people anxious. the big question as it relates to vice president harris is, what does her economic plan actually look like? we don't really have any details on where her policies are and where she maybe moving or not. as a result, it's been hard to see people critique her or not critique her in that regard. i think we're going to see some more meat on the bones in the coming days.

maybe it's wishful thinking, because some of these people are wall street oriented, there's a view she's going to tack more to the center. you saw her come out in favor of not taxing tips. that's something that former president trump has talked about doing. i think that's a way of trying to capture the voter in the state of nevada. i think we're going to see a lot more and know a lot more in the coming days. the real question is, does she tack to the left, does she tack to the center? that, i think, is what wall street is waiting to find out. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much as always, andrew. coming up, the house freedom caucus is pushing for a funding fight that would risk a government just weeks before the november election. we'll bring details on that next on "morning joe." e.

this is our future, ma. godaddy airo. creates a logo, website, even social posts... in minutes! -how? -a.i. (impressed) ay i like it! who wants to come see the future?! get your business online in minutes with godaddy airo right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right

to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech.

that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today.

dave's company just scored so please, call or, go online to the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five! -i'm in a call... it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years? introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. i came to bayview hunter's point, where there was only one pediatrician to serve more than 10,000 children. daniel lurie said, i'm going to help. we opened a clinic for our most vulnerable children. i have worked shoulder to shoulder with him as we have brought solutions where people thought the problem was unsolvable. daniel doesn't take excuses. he holds himself accountable. and i know that he can do it for the city of san francisco.

you can't do it, vladimir. you do it, it's going to be a bad day. you cannot do it. i told him things, what i do. and he said, no way. and i said, way. >> no way. >> way. >> yeah. >> no way. >> yes way. >> there you go. i love it. i mean, really. we could have shown the clip of fdr talking to stalin at malta. >> yeah. >> when stalin said he was going into eastern europe, it was actually fdr that said, no way, and then stalin said, way. and there you go. the rest is history. >> those letters between fdr and

churchill in 1940 begging for help in the war. he'd cable no way and then he'd cable back, way. >> it's so moving. >> that was part of the interview donald trump with elon musk last night where he described his relationship with vladimir putin. in 2016, then-senate majority leader mitch mcconnell stood in the way of president obama's appointment to the supreme court of merrick garland. he then flipped a few years later when donald trump was in office. >> the american people may well elect a president who decides to nominate judge garland for senate consideration. the next president may also nominate somebody very different. either way, our view is this. give the people a voice in filling this vacancy.

>> we'd fill it. [ laughter ] >> mcconnell ultimately rushed through the supreme court confirmation of trump's appointment justice amy coney barrett in 2020, an election year. our next guest says that action by mcconnell lifted the veil for many americans about how rules don't apply to today's republican party. joining us now, host of the "no lie podcast" brian taylor cohen. his new book is titled "shape less, republicans' deliberate dysfunction and the battle to preserve democracy." i'll have you explain your thesis there. we use mcconnell as perhaps the most prominent example of changing the rules midstream. how do you write about this in the book? >> i talk more broadly about how republicans have relied on their longstanding branding basically to give themselves a permission

structure to act in a way that's an antithetical to that branding. they actually behave in a way that's opposite to that. this presents itself as letting the american people feel like it's okay to vote for them because they're good on the economy, when, in fact, they're not good with the economy. we have metric after metric to prove these things. >> this phenomenon, how does it happen? >> in big part what i call the both sides media in this book has given them cover to act this way. it's in large part how the media has allowed them -- given them their permission structure to

act this way because they don't want to be labeled as the liberal media, so they'll bend over backwards to kowtow to the right. >> can you talk about republican policy and how you feel that informs this thesis? >> yeah. in terms of the republican policies that we see, i mean, look, republicans present themselves as the party of family values. just to choose one, they are right now blocking the ivf bill in the senate. i don't see how that's family values friendly. they block s.n.a.p. benefits and medicare and social security. if you look at republican states that republicans have full control in, those are the states with the worst outcomes and infant mortality. none of this comports with family values.

they rely on their branding to give themselves cover to act in a way that's, again, completely opposite to that. >> also we can talk about immigration right now at the center of this presidential campaign, which has vice president harris has pointed out and we've pointed out many times on this show, complaining about what's happening in the border while killing what would have been the strongest immigration bill in a generation. >> they present themselves as the party that's good on the border and make sure they can get in so they can finally close down the border. yet they had the opportunity to do exactly that. there was a border bill negotiated by james lankford, a conservative republican, along with james murphy and kyrsten sinema. they had the opportunity to pass it, but donald trump wanted so badly to preserve this as an issue that he sent his clarion

kill to the republican senate and they duly killed it. >> and allowing vice president harris to seize the issue and say if i become president i'll sign that bill that actually is tough on the border, unlike donald trump, who killed it. the book is on sale now. brian tyler cohen, thanks for being here today. coming up next, we'll take a look at some of the stories making headlines in newspapers across the country this morning. we'll be right back. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies.

we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now.

at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, that's it. this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us.

kamala harris has spent decades fighting violent crime. as a border state prosecutor, she took on drug cartels and jailed gang members for smuggling weapons and drugs across the border. as vice president, she backed the toughest border control bill in decades. as president, she will hire thousands more border agents and

crack down on fentanyl and human trafficking. fixing the border is tough. so the kamala harris. >> i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. >> that's exactly what you have to do. you go right in to the issue that your opponent thinks is your weakness, and you make it your strength. it's something she's effectively done, kamala harris, on the campaign trail already. i suspect it's something she'll effectively do also in the debate. it's very simple. first of all, border crossings this summer, lower than they were, of course, when donald trump was leaving the white house. and also the lankford bill, the most conservative border bill ever that kamala harris supported and donald trump actually stopped by telling house republicans and the

speaker to kill the bill, because it would be good news for people on the border who are concerned about illegal immigrants crossing the border. also, it would be good news for joe biden at the time. actually, that ad's pretty effective. we'll see how it works. meanwhile, on capitol hill the house freedom caucus is actually pushing for a short-term government funding bill before an october 1st deadline. the gop is asking for a continuing resolution that would fund the government for the next year. they are asking for proof of citizenship requirements to vote in federal elections. sahil kapur, looks like some republicans are angling for the possibility of a shutdown to get this issue in front of voters.

i've been confused about this from the very start. isn't it illegal for illegal immigrants to vote in elections? i'm not exactly sure what point they're trying to -- i'm not being facetious, but isn't that a crime if you're not a citizen of the united states and you vote in an election? >> yeah. it is already illegal, and it's very rare. stop me if you've heard this one. house conservatives are pushing for another fight over government funding ahead of the october 1st deadline. that would cause a shutdown just five weeks before election day if republican leaders pursue it. a stopgap filler continuing resolution is going to be necessary to keep the government functioning. the hard-right freedom caucus is making three demands in a new statement. first, return from the august recess early. that one's not going to happen. second, they want to condition a

stopgap bill on passing the save act. that imposes proof of citizenship requirements for voting. this is a trump priority and it's backed by speaker mike johnson. it faces strong opposition from democrats, who say it could stop american citizens from voting. the group said in a stopgap bill, government funding should be extended into early 2025 to avoid a lake-duck omnibus that preserves democratic spending. susan collins told me it's a mistake to push that and give kamala harris a clean slate. the democratic chair of the appropriations committee called

it a partisan scare tactic meant to erode confidence in our election and noted it's already illegal for non-citizens to vote. murray added, our elections are free and fair despite the dangerous, often incoherent ramblings of donald trump. she said we've seen this movement before and we know how it ends. it's true. we've seen recent shutdowns in recent times, and they always backfire politically on the instigators. where does trump stand on this? he too has been silent. >> let me ask you a follow-up question. forgive me for being slow here, but it's just what i do. if it's already against the law for people who aren't american

citizens to vote in elections, why would the democrats oppose the bill? what do they say the harm is in this bill that basically repeats what the law already is? >> it creates new burdens to register to vote. for instance, you might need a passport or a birth certificate. a lot of people don't have those documents readily on them and the idea is it could disenfranchise them. you already face a test under severe criminal penalties. this would set a nationwide standard, democrats argue. republicans are happy to tout this issue if you simply poll should there be a requirement of citizenship to vote. they passed this bill through the house of representatives already. the question is, do they want to pick this fight in the context of a government funding standoff?

this is the last train leaving the station before the election. if they pick this fight, it could cause a shutdown at a pretty perilous time. >> sahil kapur, thank you so much. jonathan lemire, i know personally that the party that shuts down the government is usually blamed for shutting down the government. i think we, in part, helped revive bill clinton's president when they did that in early '95. i do wonder, though, if republicans want to put new onerous burdens on people to vote that democrats are arguing, it seems like you put the current language that it's illegal for people who aren't american citizens to vote in some sort of bill. you can point to the republicans saying, look, we're saying here it's illegal. we'll even increase the penalties for it.

it seems to me it would take away their argument. >> you should run at what your opponent thinks is your weakness, make it a strength. that might be a moment too for democrats even as unnecessary and redundant as all this is. the idea of a government shutdown on october 1st of an election year is unfathomable. if this does happen -- and i think that's unlikely. if it does, republicans are going to be painted with that brush. democrats have a shoot to win the senate. there are republicans in the house who won biden districts last time around, playparticula in new york state. this would be devastating to them and the gop's chances to capture either house of congress. >> the biggest problem would be that it would remind a lot of voters who have probably forgotten the chaos of how this congress began with the kevin mccarthy fights and all the

votes and kicking him out. so it seems to me a genuinely bad political idea. we'll see what happens. coming up, we're going to be joined by governor tim walz. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." t ahead on "morning joe." why do couples a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. sleep number does that. thank you. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

you didn't start a

business just to keep the lights on. lucky for you, shopify built the just one-tapping, ridiculously fast-acting, sky-high sales stacking champion of checkouts. businesses that want to win, win with shopify.

so, jonathan, it has been a rough week is an understatement for the boston red sox. last night, a good night, a walk off in the tenth inning from raf and set up by mickey gasper,

might have been his first at bat in the majors and he walked and set up the winning run. but on top of that, of course, would be remiss if i didn't talk about the new york yankees getting blown out 12-2 to the 29-91 chicago white sox. >> we'll start with the red sox. after a lost weekend against the astros that had some wondering if they were slipping out of the wild card race, a great night last night. this was a much-needed win for the red sox, we're going to see the walkoff single here in a moment. you twin that with what can be described as a pathetic, per the new york post, back page of the new york post, calling the yankees loss last night to the white sox pathetic. yankees lost 12-2, left 16 men on base in this defeat and then jazz chisholm, playing so well since they acquired him, got

injured, unknown how long he'll be out. they are a half game behind the orioles in the american league east. speaking of defeats in new york, a new york state supreme court, segue, joe, that's a segue -- >> that is a great segue. >> a new york state supreme court judge has ruled in favor of removing robert f. kennedy jr. from the state's general election ballot this fall. the ruling comes after a democratic aligned group sued kennedy over the new york address he claimed as his residence on ballot access petition forms. kennedy lives in california, but he has maintained that he always intended to move back to new york. the independent candidate vowed to appeal the decision. the supreme court is a trial level court in new york state. kennedy is facing similar lawsuits in pennsylvania, but we should note he is on the ballot in 15 states including swing states like nevada and north carolina. the judge yesterday did not rule on the fate of the bear that he

once killed and left in central park. meanwhile, democratic vice presidential candidate governor tim walz will hold his first solo event later today. his first event since being selected to the ticket. the governor is set to deliver remarks at a union event in los angeles. before he then begins a three-day, five-state fund-raising blitz across the country ahead of the democratic convention next week. and a self-described dormant republican and former high school student of tim walz admits he didn't always agree with his former teacher politically, but says walz served as his school's conscience, describing him as an educator who challenged students to consider the value of empathy and a man who sticks to his convictions. doug, a 2004 graduate of mankato high school wrote an opinion piece in "the minneapolis star tribune" which had this title "a memo to the trump campaign from a former walz student and

dormant republican." and he joins us now from minneapolis. doug, thank you for being here. we really appreciate it. let's start with your impressions, what sort of teacher was tim walz? >> well, good morning. thanks for having me. and my story in terms of being a student of tim walz isn't unique. i think that it is a compliment that when we were kids and before his political career began, folks had a tough time figuring out what his political leanings were. we knew him as a national guardsman and a gun owner, but also somebody that cared deeply for equality for everyone. so when it was announced that he eventually was going to run for congress and i think it was 2006, folks were interested in whether he was going to -- which side of the ticket he was going to run on, but all of the stories that have come out from students over the last ten days or so since the announcement

have some commonality, i think, and it is around his embracing of hard conversations, and a leader that he was in that small little high school in that small town in minnesota. and i think that's why he was pulled into public life. >> yeah, coach walz we hear a lot from the vice president. so you describe yourself as a dormant republican. do you think that walz speaks to others like you who might say, i've been turned off by donald trump, i haven't always been sure about the other side of the aisle, but tim walz, that's a guy i can support? >> yeah, i think especially in presidential politics, i think there are -- as a larger swath of folks that need to consider or at least want to consider character over ideology. and i think that if you look through a character lens at this

election, i'm not sure how you can really look past the harris/walz ticket and before we get into too much of a policy debate, i think that hopefully the race is on for the middle of america, where i think most of us are on the political spectrum, and even beyond policy, just on decision-making and judgment, i think in that way the harris/walz ticket does indeed appeal to us. >> you characterized walz as your favorite -- as everyone's favorite teacher. can you explain to us why you all liked him so much? >> well, i think that you knew that you were going to learn something and i think that that's maybe oversimplified, but i think that he's a teacher and a human that embraces the fact that you may wake up in the

morning and go to bed later that night and have new ideas going to your brain. i think he encouraged all of us to be curious, where as i think this, especially the tenor of this campaign up until the last couple of weeks has been one of closed mindedness. so, and he was not afraid of introducing and giving voice necessarily to ideas that he didn't agree with. and i think that's all -- that's something that we all want to, in order to, you know, create a useful conversation, i think we all need to feel open with sharing how we actually feel and in high school that was something that he encouraged, which wasn't always par for the course, i think. >> yeah, i think that is right. former student of tim walz, doug vose, thank you for joining us this morning. and that does it for us this morning. we'll see you right back here tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. for more "morning joe." and ana cabrera picks up the

coverage in just two minutes. a e coverage in just two minutes

♪♪ ♪♪ relax into a caribbean state of mind. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals.