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today, donald trump did something he has previously declined as corrupt and cheating. today, donald trump voted early in florida's nonpresidential republican primary. there is a mountain of irony in trump voting early after having spent years fear mongering about early voting. it was actually what trump said right after he voted that was the most concerning. >> you sent harasses crowd sizes were ai and there weren't people there. there's all kinds of video evidence and people who were there who have proven that false. can you tell us why do you make that claim? >> can only tell you about ours, we have the biggest crowd in history politics. >> trump is telling his believers not to believe their lying eyes. again. trump's claim here is that crowd at vice president harris's rally last week in detroit were actually fake. there are countless photos and videos from media organizations proving that claim to be demonstrably false.

there are thousands of people a real human people, who showed up to that rally who can attest that the crowd was real because they are real. even when confronted with the facts, trump won't back down. that is because this isn't just about crowd sizes. yesterday, vermont senator bernie sanders issued a very serious statement about what he sees as the real issue here. "donald trump be crazy but he's not stupid. when he claims nobody showed up at a 10,000 person harris walz rally in michigan that was live streamed and widely covered by the media, that it was all a i and that democrats cheat all the time, there is a method to his madness. clearly, and dangerously, what trump is doing is laying the groundwork for rejecting the election results if he loses.

" if you look at the language in trump's original post pushing this ai conspiracy, it is clear senator sanders is right. not only does trump accuse harris of cheating, by supposedly posting ai generated images, he claims that "this is the way the democrats win elections, by cheating, and there even worse at the ballot box." trump says harris should be disqualified because the creation of a fake image is election interference. and that "anyone who does that will cheat at anything." you don't even have to read between the lines here. trump is clearly laying the groundwork to call the election rigged and he's doing it right in front of us. in the past week, trump hasn't just claimed harasses crowd sizes are fake but that the polls, the ones that show harris ahead for trump claims those are fake too by suggesting that on the harris support is a fake, trump is creating the expectation that his victory in november is a given and that the only way he can lose is if the election is stolen from him. if that sounds familiar, that is because it is exactly what trump did in the lead up to the

2020 election. trump didn't just start saying the election was rigged november. he laid the groundwork for the big lie months earlier. here he is in august and september of 2020. >> the only way we are going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. remember that. it is the only way we are going to lose this election. >> the only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election. democrats are trying to rigged this election because it is the only way they are going to win. the only way they are going to win is to make it. >> the only way they are going to win is to break it. go back to senator sanders statement for a second. "if you can convince your supporters thousands of people who attended a televised rally do not exist, it will not be

hard to convince them that the election returns in pennsylvania, michigan, and elsewhere are fake and fraudulent. this is what destroying faith in institutions is about. this is what undermining microstate is about. this is what fascism is about." trump's campaign to delegitimize a democratic victory extends to the candidate herself. because president biden dropped out and vice president harris took the top of the ticket, harris candidacy is somehow, in trump's twisted logic, it is unconstitutional. >> the presidency was taken away from joe biden. i know biden fan, but i tell you what, from a constitutional standpoint, from any standpoint you look at, they took the presidency away. the fact that you can be, get no votes, lose in the primary system, in other words you had 14 or 15 people. she was the first one out. and that you could be picked to run for president? it seems to me actually, perhaps it is not.

>> kamala harris to be the democratic candidate for president. the facts clearly are not the point here. this campaign, much like trump's campaign against barack obama, is meant to undermine the candidate in the eyes of the voter and preemptively render their presidency illegitimate. it is about destroying an institution and undermining democracy. man, it sort of seems to be working, at least among trump supporters. pew research center last month shows 47% of republicans think this upcoming election will be conducted fairly. for contrast, that is compared to 77% democrats. now, you might think that a candidate who needs his supporters to turnout for the election would want them to believe that elections are fair and fourth actually voting in. but, the worse trump does in the polls, the bigger the crowd sizes and the bigger the volunteer armies for kamala harris and tim walz, the more you are going to hear this, and

from trump. client fraud is once again his backup plan if he loses the election. i'm not just speculating here. this is the cochair of trump's campaign speaking with politico last month about their strategy for this election. >> it is not over until he puts his hand on the bible and takes the oath. it is not over until then. is not over on election day, it is over on inauguration day. i wouldn't put anything past anybody. >> what do you mean? >> i don't. >> you think democrats and the courts? >> is a well documented, a well- documented report that talks about all of the efforts that the democrats had in place in 2020 two, despite everything that had happened, that there was a well-documented about ways to prevent if donald trump had "one." we, like i said, we plan for

every worst-case scenario, that way we are ready for it. >> joining me now, george conway, contributor at "linda," and miller, editor at large of "double work." at one point, should we consider trump's rhetoric slipping from the pathetic to the outright dangerous, are we at that point? >> we passed that point years ago. >> i should clarify. yes. relating to ai generated crowd sizes and the like. i agree with you. on this particular front. >> absolutely. this is of a piece with everything he has always done. there is no grand strategy here. that is the only quibble i have with some of what i heard. this is his pathology. it is also the pathology of authoritarians throughout history. they tell lies, they tell big

lies. they try to sell your lies because bigger lines work better than smaller lies. the called it de grosse lugen, the big lie. this is what narcissistic sociopaths who obtain popularity or power, this is how they operate. is a reptilian instinct that they have and it works on a lot of people if they have a following. it is very, very dangerous. trump did this in 2016, talked about how he would not, he if he lost, it would be because the election was stolen from him. in 2020, he, at one point, said we should call off the election because of the pandemic because he knew the poll numbers were coming in. this is right on schedule. this is his instinctual reptilian, his reptile brain approach to handling of the potential loss and he can't, his pathology is he can't

accept loss, he can't accept defeat and he's going to basically lie about it in order to overcome defeat or to convince people that he was somehow wrong because that is his nature. >> tim, the thing that i find particularly chilling is last go-round when there were cries of election fraud, they had to resort to outlandish theories like nest thermostats and italian satellites rigging the election. now they have the benefit of technology like artificial intelligence that is legitimately scary to a lot of people and is sort of an x factor. do you worry? how concerned are you at this stage of the game given where we are at and what has happened before? >> there's a lot to be concerned about. this chris lacivita clip is got me. is not pathological like a donald trump. he should be ashamed of himself. this is how we would get here. donald trump's pathologies only go so far if he doesn't

have operatives willing to backfill them and come up with some serious plot to try to pretend like he won elections. the january 16 would have gone nowhere if he didn't have his foot soldiers and and strategist to go along with the attempted coup and having chris lacivita there, who is an establishment consultant who had lost plenty of campaigns and considered the night of the election plenty of times, having him already citing his going to go along with it is concerning. the other concerning thing is what you see. they've done a practice run at the local levels. i'm worried about the county level, what you see in state legislatures. you had a self-selection of republicans and local offices that will be willing to go along with it. memo one positive creature that is different for 2020, two things. donald trump is not in the presidency so he can't do the inspection act, there's a lot of things he can't do from mar- a-lago. number two, republicans had

such terrible midterms that the democrats have control of arizona, all three blue wall states, the one good republican left in the country, brian kemp, one his primary against an election denier in georgia. roy cooper in north carolina i should mention. in six of the seven swing states, it is a democrat or whatever, cause i pro-democracy republican who are in charge and i think that is going to limit his ability to create trouble from what it was in 2020. there's still going to be random one off actions and a lot to be concerned about and prepare for. >> georgia, given your status as a lawyer, i wonder what your level of alarm is. rolling stone has reporting on the number of election deniers who have infiltrated state- level election apparatus, apparatuses. and, the degree to which they can become kind of, they can mess with the machine, the machinery of you, if you will by refusing to certify election

results. as mark elias, the election expert points out. if you have enough legal imbroglio over this, do you read this gets somehow up to the supreme court? >> not necessarily because a lot of this is going to be state law litigation and we are going to, the judges and justices that we are going to have to be concerned about are mostly going to be state court judges because they are charged with reviewing election contests in the first instance. they aren't going to be probably when it comes to certification of results at the local level, those issues are going to be subject to state substantive law and state procedural law. it is going to be a state-by- state battle and there potentially could be a lot of litigation. it will all get resolved relatively quickly because this kind of election litigation

happens all the time, although not necessarily with the level of potential corruption that we are talking about. you know, the courts are used to resolving that. and, we have to hope and pray that the court, the judges that hear these cases in the right places and the right time are the ones who do the right thing. i think the more, this is why it is important for the democrats and the harris campaign not to let up on donald trump and they have to run up the score to make sure there is no plausible path by cheating and buying refusing to certify elections. you know, i am hopeful that that is what is going to happen, the margins will be sufficiently large that, you know, you have to run the table. they have to run the table in litigation in multiple states in order to overturn the election. >> you know, there is a piece in "the atlantic," where pete

wenner talks about the psychology behind the promotion of the big lie and i think you nails it, tim. i wonder what you think about this. this is a treat that is coded in another piece. "if you have friends who are trump supporters >> that opening that he played of him going to vote early, he looks like he's in a bad place. that was a very dejected,

hopped over trump, grumpy trump. i watched his rally today. his little stick that he does on stage was very muted. he's upset and he's aggrieved by kamala harris's momentum and this trickles down . i think about the trump fans, in some ways they are victims. they are victims of a scam artist. if you have anybody in your life that has been a victim of a scam or been in a relationship with somebody that is an egomaniac that gas lights, what usually happens when you tell them you are being scammed? or, hey, your partner is a horrible narcissist that is treating you poorly? usually they lash out. usually they don't say thank you for telling me that. that sometimes you are punished for being the bearer of bad news. i think we are probably going to see that throughout the country and i agree with pete wehner that it will be a dark time over the next 12 weeks and even longer before maga.

>> the darkness of being a maga follower. george conway, tim miller, thank you for your time tonight. coming up, new polling shows kamala harris is a leading or tied in every single swing state except nevada. michigan congressman elissa slotkin joins us to discuss the race in her state. first, republicans for harris, evangelicals for harris, cat ladies for harris. the right in intent on the democratic side of the aisle right after this break. break. get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

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you probably remember the wind with a black woman call, the first massive zoom that raised more than $1.6 million

for kamala harris after she rose to the top of the democratic ticket. did you know about elders for kamala harris or native men for harris or cat ladies for kamala harris? what about train lovers for harris walz? the democratic tent is getting large. last night, a new group entered the zoom, republicans for harris. more than 70,000 people attended the virtual rally aimed at persuading discontented members of the gop to vote for a democratic candidate. tonight, another group, evangelicals for harris, is holding its own call him a which is still going strong right now after almost went half hours. before the call started, organizers said 200,000 people had already pledged to volunteer and vote for kamala harris. joining me now , former campaign manager for bernie sanders 2020 presidential campaign and jim messina, former campaign manager for

barack obama's 2012 reelection campaign. thank you both experts for being here tonight. jim, let me get your thoughts about the fact that grassroots groups, republicans for harris and evangelicals for harris are popping up and what that signals to you? >> it signals, alex, enthusiasm. it signals grassroots support. when you look at the numbers i cared about as a campaign manager, i cared about enthusiasm. democratic enthusiasm about voting is gone from 46% in april two 87% yesterday. and community it manifested all over the place. my favorite ones are the ones you just showed, cat ladies for harris. that is historical and exactly the kind of thing you need. you need new people who have not been involved in politics who are organizing themselves and it is a great design. >> i don't need to wax poetic about it but it might be a good time for democracy that you have bridge building. this is the assessment of

republicans for harris. "it builds on bridge building, where people of opposing political beliefs are brought into contact so they may exchange views and find the common goals to pursue." is that gilding the lily too much? >> civic engagement is wonderful and part of the reason you like having 15 decent thousand people in a phoenix rally, they are excited to talk with their neighbors. a campaign manager perspective, you got those people signed up as volunteers who will go out and proselytize on your behalf. that is great information to have. these rallies, these events on zoom, they are wonderful for building a movement that goes beyond your base. as we head into the post labor day stretch in the last few weeks, there's going to be a lot of people who come online as voters who have not been dialed into this race who are

low information consumers and it is those people who may end up deciding. we could be looking at 5% or less. it could be the voters in michigan and pennsylvania. how they are reached out to its critical. it is a core part of how you get to them. >> there is the question of the supporters and there is the candidate herself. i wonder what you think of the reporting from axios that harris may be trying to put distance between herself and the president and his record on fracking, the border, especially illegal border crossings, and the issue of medicare for all. first of all, can she do that? then, should she do that? >> every campaign is about a vision for the future. she is going to lay out her vision. she's giving a big economic speech on friday. this is about her campaign, not joe biden, not every democrat before. she gets her chance to make this case to the american

people. and, it should look different. it feels different. part of why we are so excited about these numbers and these people is her message resonates, this message of belief that we can do anything. that is why you have all the huge numbers we've never seen before, not because we have cooler apps were colder social media, it is because of her message. she gets to lay that message out to the american people in any way she wants. >> i do wonder when we talk about the issues, clearly it's not that the harris campaign is without substance at all but in terms of greater specificity, where do you land on the scale of she needs to be a lot more specific in terms of economic policy proposals and she should ride the momentum, keep it a brat summer and forget about the rest? >> it is important she has an economic story to tell about her values. that is fundamentally critical, especially when you think about the last 5% who are going to come online.

they are motivated by the economy and they know and i think we all know that there has been great job creation under the biden/harris administration, there has been wages outpacing inflation, great small business creation. to the extent there is anger and frustration, i would suggest to you, alex, it is about the ticketmaster economy. people know and understand that the economy is working well for people at the top and if you are looking at it from a profit perspective or shareholder perspective, things are going great. if you look at the people who wait in line, who feel like they are being taken advantage of, down with prices and junk fees, there is corporate power and plane, depriving them of economic freedom. you have to access that and there is a desire that biden has laid the framework, i'm patriotic, i'm looking for economic freedom here in america, a job, a middle-class lifestyle, a union and the opportunity to feel like you are not encumbered by noncompete agreements and we want business innovation here

in america. there is a sense of being able to tell this story that builds on what biden has accomplished. >> a great point. thank you guys for your time tonight. >> thank you. still ahead of this evening, newly released: so swing states of pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan tipping toward vice president harris. i'm going to speak with congressman melissa's slatkin about the path forward in the battleground states. that conversation is next. at c.

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with flex alerts, the power is ours. the midwest has been on display. people are here, everyone is here because they know how important we are in this election to keep the white house, to flip the house, and to keep the u.s. senate. >> fresh off a primary election victory, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin delivered a reminder to voters in her state the path to the white house runs right through michigan. with its 15 electoral votes, michigan is a key battleground and, as of now, a tossup in the upcoming election. the momentum appears to be shifting. a recent new york times siena college poll shows vice president harris ahead by four points in the state. a similar poll was released by the cook political report and

it put harris above by three points. both of those results fall within the margin of error. joining me now is democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan. thank you for being here tonight. it is great to have you on the program. i wonder, you know, if you can give us a snapshot of what is happening in terms of the ground game in your state. a few months ago, i think it was march, the republican chairman in the state of michigan, pete hoekstra, said trump had skeletal infrastructure in the state and was ringing alarm bells over it. could you compare the two operations? what have you seen? >> the most important thing that happened when kamala harris rose to the top of the ticket was she announced that afterwards she was going to keep all of the biden staff, all of the biden offices, all of the biden programs. we were worried about here in michigan because we have 200 and staff, dozens of officers.

the work is already happening, we've already knocked 400,000 doors in the state of michigan, in a state of 10 million people. we have learned our lessons over the years on having a strong field campaign. we have it. i can't over emphasize the change in energy on the ground that has happened in the past three weeks. the number of volunteers, people dropping by offices wanting to sign up. it is a real palpable thing here on top of the great infrastructure that we already have. >> can we dig deeper into where you are seeing the enthusiasm? i know the uaw endorsed the harris walz ticket on july 31st. yesterday, the uaw filed a lawsuit against donald trump and elon musk for trump's comments praising elon musk's mass layoffs at tesla, firing striking workers. is that resonating in a state like michigan, is that something that makes its way to the labor movement in your state? can you talk a little bit about how you are seeing the working- class voters deal with the

change in ticket? >> it definitely impacts people. one of the most unionized states in the country. the number, the sheer number of people who are in a union, who believe in collective bargaining is very high here. we also know in 2016, a lot of our union members split from leadership and voted for donald trump. so, it is still a competition and a fight and a debate. what i think is different than 2016 is we can show real results and what we have done for unions. joe biden was the first president to walk a uaw picket line. we put by american requirements in our infrastructure bill. look at the number of hours. if you are a teamster that you are working in 2019 versus what you were working in 2024, it is night and day. it is important to make this case to our union membership, our rank and file because they are the ones who feel squeezed. am i going to be to get into and stay in the middle class?

but union membership is important for lots of people in our state and it resonates here. >> i also wonder about the uncommitted vote, which is perhaps the strongest in the state of michigan, right? and, there is no shortage of news about the war in gaza that is deeply concerning. the palestinian ministry of health suggest we will cross the threshold of 40,000 killed in this war. of course, there are up to 100 hostages who remain in gaza. and, the biden administration yesterday approved $20 billion in weapons, weapons sales to israel. this is the kind of stuff that animates this group of people in your state and i wonder how much of an issue you think this is for the harris walz ticket. >> obviously it is hard to overstate how this issue has roiled metro detroit and parts of our state in a real and visceral way. people see themselves in the casualties in the middle east. arab and muslim americans, people see themselves in the

children that are hurt their. i think of the leaders i've talked to are grappling with the change in the top of the ticket and how to deal with it and how to think about it. when vice president harris came to michigan, she made a point to meet with leaders from the uncommitted movement away from the cameras, not in front of any public review, to have a real conversation and to listen. some of those folks have now come out and endorsed her and said, okay, i was unhappy but she took the time to talk and so we are engaging. others have not made that decision, others are still figuring out how to think about it. so, i think the most important thing is to keep the lines of communication open. not every american is going to agree on everything. that is never going to happen. about, do we treat each other with respect, listen to each other's opinions, listen when we are being told hard facts. that is something i think is the expectation, especially from the leaders that i know of me but also of the harris walz

campaign. >> it is super valuable to get your insight on how this is all playing out in real time in what is one of the most important states in this election. congresswoman, senate candidate elissa slotkin, thanks for taking the time, we really appreciate it. coming up, misogyny, anti- semitism , and strip club attendance. all the apparent fires to be at the top of a republican ticket, i guess. i will explain more, coming up next. next. i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.

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for trump advisor and campaign manager steve bennett is currently serving a four month sentence in federal prison. because steve bannon is in federal prison, he has to have someone else fill in for him on his internet talk show. last week, that will went to this individual. >> i have to talk about democracy. democracy in and of itself, especially as it is applied by these democrats, is nothing more than heresy. why? you can't even say democracy is a heresy. >> the left is so out of control, you can't even say democracy is heresy anymore. that man is former nba player grace white. last night, three days after recording that antidemocracy podcast, royce white was elected by minnesota republicans to be there candidate for the u.s. senate

as in the united states senate. when it comes to royce white, the democracy stuff is the tip of the iceberg. royce white has a long history of right misogyny. he has used the "c" word to describe aoc, nancy pelosi, even barack obama. here he is talking about women in general. >> let's be frank am a women have become to mouthy. >> he also has a history of anti-semitism. he wants openly identified himself as anti-semitic on x. in addition to all of that, royce white is facing an fec complaint after spending more than $1000 resentment campaign money at a strip club. his explanation here has raised more questions than answers. >> your claim is there were filings which said he spent campaign funds at a strip club but they were incorrect. >> they didn't say i spent the front at a strip club.

they didn't say i spent the funds on strippers. >> it was spent at a strip club. >> a strip club, they sell food at a strip club, don't they? >> they do have food at strip clubs, that is true. that is usually not the selling point of the strip club. that is the man minnesota republicans have chosen to face off against senator amy klobuchar in the fall. this year, it looks like he's in good company. today, donald trump held a campaign rally in north carolina, where he appeared on the same state as this man, republican candidate for governor, mark robinson. mark robinson also has a history of saying horrible things about women. >> everybody knows abortion in this country is not about detecting the lives of mothers. it is about convenience. it is about killing the child because you aren't responsible enough to keep your skirt down or your pants up. i absolutely want to go back to america where women couldn't vote. we are called, get ready to get

in trouble, called to be led by men. when it was time to face down goliath, he sent david. >> just like royce white, mark robinson has a long history of anti-semitism. he has spread conspiracy theories, favorably quoted hitler, even engaged in outright holocaust denial. in one 2018 facebook post, he wrote "this foolishness about hitler disarming millions of jews and marching them off to concentration camps with a bunch of hogwash." >> there was a time when these kinds of comments from a candidate recent past would be more than enough to end their campaign. as my colleague writes in his new book, "with anything piquancy, the contemporary republican party sees the recent past as an enemy to be overpowered, crushed, and

conquered." steve benen joins me coming up next to discuss the republican war on reality, right after the break. break. the fingerprints we leave behind show how determined we are to give the world a piece of ourselves. etsy.

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here is the quote. with unnerving frequency, the contemporary republican party see the recent past is an enemy to be overpowered, crushed and conquered. it is an effort, predicated on the assumption that our memories can be bullied into the ocean, forced to give way to manufactured stories the gop prefers. to see such authoritarian tactics in american democracy as anything less than dangerous would be a mistake. that is from a new book, half asleep, by my msnbc colleagues, steve bannon, it is called ministry of truth, democracy, reality, and the republican's were on the recent past and it is essential reading, because it breaks down how and why republican, led by donald trump, why in an attempt to rewrite the recent past. joining me now is the one and only steve benen, producer for the rachel maddow show and editor for the indispensable

manoblog, it is a pleasure to have you, in the flesh, on the set, speaking live with me. first of all, let's get to the essence of the book. you right, this campaign of rewriting history is built on the foundation of pernicious tellers come up the first is a wholesale indifference to reality. the second is the absence of shame. the third is the role of allies, and finally there is the importance of repetition. it is such a clear breakdown of how does this happen. i guess i wonder the motivation, as you see it. is it purely to stay in power? do you see something broader in their goals? >> actually, i think there is clearly an electoral element to this could clearly trump wants to regain power and he thinks the way to do that is to fool just enough people, rewriting history, that he can overpower our memories into submission and convince them that he deserves a second term, despite his failure and so on. but i also think there's a larger concern with democracy.

i think a lot of americans are concerned about the rising authoritarianism in the united states, that is a legitimate concern i share that concern. but with that in mind, let's not forget, as long as there have been historical records, there have been authoritarians engaging in all kinds of packet tactics to rewrite history, to eliminate enemies, to cover up crimes and so on. so, it is unsettling, at a minimum, to see donald trump and his allies borrowing a page from that same playbook. >> yeah. you use such-- first of all-- i don't know whether it is a testament to trump's tactics and the republican party tactics that i had forgot how many important, staggering examples there are of this, you talk about his, you know, cry that he was going to rebuild the wall, or build the wall and have mexico pay for it. and contend that the wall has been built in mexico has been for you talk about russia and russian interference, his denial of that reality. you know, what stands out to you as one of the most forgotten, but sort of pernicious and useful examples to focus on?

>> one that came up just today as a matter of fact. it was timely bolstered my book. >> you are welcome. >> donald trump, today making the case that his economy, that under his presidency, was extraordinary, historic, it broke all the records, we have never-- humanize have never seen an economy like that with trump except it is not true. even if we exclude 2020 from the picture altogether, of course nate was in a recession with covid, even if we exclude that, for the first three years, the numbers are not nearly as good as the last three years of the obama era. so, really the last three presidents, he ranks third when it comes to economic performance. so, when it comes to the idea that somehow he was the economic genius and mastermind that only returned to the white house everything would be great in the economy is nonsense. >> and what i think was the most disturbing about that is that that was the sentiment, it was filtered from the hard- core, right wing corner of maga

land to the center of the american electorate. even democrats believe that the economy sheppard elections under republicans rather than democrats. >> and my book goes a long way to set the record straight here, because when you look at the data, economic, job growth actually went down in the first three years of trump, as compared to the left three years of obama, and that is just a lost to history, because history has been rewritten by pernicious figures who believe that people shouldn't know the truth. >> you make a real distinction between history, right? always subject relitigation in recent past. can you talk a little bit about why it is more demand damaging to a democracy to try and rewrite recent past, as opposed to a broader debate that we have about historical events? >> clearly the culture war is targeting all kinds of things from generations past him history before our lifetime and that is an important element. on my heart goes out to the culture warriors in that fight. but going after recent history is a much more ambitious. it is telling you that you don't remember things that you saw.

that your lighting i should just be discounted and discredited altogether, because you should replace those memories with the brute force rhetoric that republicans refer prefer. and it takes our breath away and it is a classic example of gas lighting. >> yeah. >> it is telling you that, if you believe the truth, what actually happened, somehow you are nuts. >> aurea you are a stooge of the liberal elite, media, technology, whether it is a i generated or democrats raking in election, the system is broken and it is rigged against you. to that end, jade events, right? a clip from 2020 has surfaced, in which jade events is talking to a podcast or about his beliefs about women and their role, and on this podcast you explain how his mother-in-law, lucia vance's mother left her job as a biologist to help raise their newborn son, and in the podcast host says, that is the purpose of postmenopausal female. this is the clip. >> it makes him a much better human being to have exposure to his grandparents.

>> welcome at the evidence on this is super clear. >> that is the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female. >> i don't know if we can-- he literally says, yes, that is the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female, the host, eric weinstein, and then jd vance says, yes. this is not a data point for date jd vance. the vance campaign -- their response to it is the media is dishonestly putting words in jd vance's mouth. of course, he does not agree with what the host says. >> well, one of the lines i use in the book a lot of that republicans want us to discard- - discard your lighting nice. of course, we are supposed to discard our lighting years too? because this is lighting here, we hear him say yes, we hear this ridiculous and offensive and insulting comment, which normal, healthy people would say no, i don't believe that could i completely reject that, and yet here we are. >> you know, it is, it is not

good news for jade events, but it is especially not good news for a functioning democracy and institutions to maintain their integrity, because the more you vilify the media and the general, the less you have a set set of shared facts. unless we are all operating on the same reality the harder it becomes to govern fairly. steve benen, here's the book, i am holding it up. thanks for being here, i love seeing you in person. the book is titled, ministry of truth: democracy, reality, and the war on the recent past. you should buy many copies of it. thank you, steve. that is our show for this evening, but we do have a quick note, i will be a guest on the late show with stephen colbert or later tonight. there we are. we talked about this wild election season at the democratic convention next week, and also whether trump is, in his fat elvis stage of his political career. so check that out. now time for the last word with jason johnson. good evening, jason. congratulations on colbert, that is awesome. >> thank you, i think. ve