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good to be with you. night two of the democratic national convention begins in just a couple of hours. speaking tonight, the party's greatest living orator. president barack obama. along with only person who consistently eclipses him. his wife, michelle, who boasts one of the highest democratic approval ratings ever. but harris and walz won't be there tonight. instead, they're heading to milwaukee hosting a rally in the very place republicans nominated donald trump just a few weeks ago. the imagery alone will say a lot. especially if they can pack the venue. but the decision on the city and the time is what's most significant. a visit to milwaukee, wisconsin,

the heart of the blue wall, tonight in the heart of her own convention. how will she tailor her message to those particular voters? john nichols is here with us to explain where harris and trump stand among working class voters in the upper midwest. donald trump is appearing without a crowd in howell, michigan. the campaign calls the event a round table on crime and safety but the harris campaign is questioning the choice to talk about crime and safety in that particular part of michigan because of its historical ties to the kkk and since a handful of white supremacists tried to hold a march there last month. joining us now, mark lev witz and john nichols. last night, they got a little off schedule. it was a very long night.

what do you expect to happen tonight as both michelle obama and barack obama will be taking the stage? >> i would hope the editing is a lit tighter at the beginning. it's not an unforced error. certainly curious to have biden last night speaking as late as he did. the interesting dynamic of this and maybe us and the media or us who kind of take these things a little too seriously is that you know, the democratic party kind of dispatched with the messy business of the pass and recent past last night and tonight begins the business of kind of getting on with the future. although ironically we are dealing with previous presidents. people who have been around a long time. so there's this constant play between past and present, future, before and after. also all the little feuds and tensions that have maybe developed over the last few weeks. i think there will be a clearer

path to the future starting tonight. >> we are still seeing a lot of big name democrats who are the future of the party. we saw aoc last night. and there's a change in tone among this new generation of democrats. michelle obama said when they go low, we go high. we've since said she didn't mean don't go at the other side. don't always take the high road and be silent, but this is a generation of democratic leaders and politicians, mark, that want to get down in the mud and want to fight fire with fire with donald trump and the republicans and want to be as big on personality as they are. >> yeah, i think in some ways donald trump forced hand of this because it eliminated all pretense of good will, good faith on the other side. he is so over the top and gives a lot of material for democrats to work with. he is a big, fat, and easy target and clearly, you know, is i think still the major figure in this election as he has been in the last three elections and

that could be to the great benefit of kamala harris. i think the whole high low dynamic is a thing of the past and democrats have developed a new voice and method of engagement on these things. >> the age difference especially. so apparent. now that kamala harris is taken the mantle and donald trump is still the head of the republican party. john, we want to talk about milwaukee as well. harris is not going to be in chicago tonight. she's going to be just up the road, about an hour and a half away, in milwaukee, wisconsin where donald trump got the nomination a few weeks ago. what's your expectation of what will happen there tonight? >> i think it's going to be very crowded. the wisconsin party is front and center. this trolling of donald trump and trolling of the republicans, if you will. they like to counterprogram. they like to do these sorts of things. so the second that folks in wisconsin heard this was

happening, that calls were going out. jump in the car, get on the bus. i think there's going to be a very, very large crowd. i think we're going to have a situation much like what you had inaugurations back in 2017 where you were comparing pictures. my suspicion, i could be proven wrong in a matter of minutes or hours, that the photo of an incredibly packed place, cheering kamala harris, will be comparable to if not stronger than the images of donald trump. >> working class voters in the upper midwest are so essential to both parties right now. the union support is leaning heavily toward the democrats. teamsters are still up in the air although the democrats snubbed them notably after he spoke at the rnc a few weeks ago. what is your sense of how these two campaigns are appealing to

those sets of voters? >> oh, i think there's no question that democrats are going all in on their outreach to labor. you saw it last night. they had a parade of labor leaders speaking. and when you added up the numbers, you're talking about leaders of unions that represent millions of people. many of them in the upper midwest. then you had a separate speech from sean fayne which was very theatrical. pulling off his jacket to reveal a trump is a scab t-shirt. so at the end of the day, i think that the democratic convention's programming is really aimed at union members. beyond that, it's not really what happens at the convention. it's what people come home with. the funny thing about about this convention hall, every place i look, i find piles of stickers and posters and fans for all of

these different unions with the harris walz name on it. they're clearly ready to move out of here with a major mobilization. >> his hulk hogan moment, his answer, i think you could argue. >> it was. >> leadership rank and file though are different. there's this roiling dissatisfaction about the feature that's permeated the country. people don't feel as hopeful as they once did. obviously, democrats are trying to turn the page on that, but are they speaking directly to the worries that people have? this looming threat of ai that's out there. do you get a sense that the frustrations and dissatisfaction that's being felt is being spoken to by the democrats? >> no. look, here's the bottom line. i wrote a book about ai and i've dealt with these issues for

years. i can tell you neither party has its head wrapped around it at this point. one speaker tonight does talk a lot about ai and does talk a lot about its impact on the economy. that's bernie sanders. and bernie sanders is really into this issue because of its potential impact on workers. it will be interesting to hear whether he talks about it tonight. it's also notable that both walz and harris are conscious of these issues. frankly, that's what's going to matter. it's not as much i love tonight, it's not all these other speeches. it's going to be what walz and harris say about these issues. i know from interviewing kamala harris, that she gets these issues. if she weaves in some good discussion about it into her speech, i think that could be very, very important but you hit on one of the heart and soul things here. it's important not to talk about the work of the past. that sometimes can be valid and meaningful. what you want to talk about is jobs and the future and for the

democratic party especially, this is an area where they can get away head of trump because trump i don't think has begins to have his head wrapped around this. there are some democrats that do and they should be put up front. >> i want to ask mark a question but i think the sound check back there is drowning everyone out. >> it's loud. i travel with a gospel singer wherever i go. >> last time, it was kid rock. keep things loose. all right. thank you, gentlemen. as we mentioned up top, donald trump is holding a law and order event right now in howell, michigan. he just opened it by going after kamala harris and the democrats' past positions on defund the police. he's also expected to call for a return to stop and frisk. the policing tactic that was used here in new york that critics called racist. along with a plan to institute the death penalty for child rapists and child traffickers.

joining us now, garrett haake. so this is happening in howell, michigan, garrett. he started off by going after kamala harris. what's the deal with these smaller, more tailored events? >> i think there's two reasons to do them. number one, the trump campaign understands it's going to be difficult to break into the news cycle on harris' convention week so why spend the money for the rally if you're not going to get mega coverage for it. number two, they are trying to respond to the criticism that they have not been focused enough on harris' policies and on the differences between mr. trump's policies and what the vice president would do. that's why they held an energy event yesterday. this event today about crime and public safety. and while trump has been on message during the balance of these events such as they are, when he's in interviews, he still gets asked about just about any other topic including yesterday where he defended the personal attacks he's been using

against harris in this way. >> why insult her intelligence? >> well, i have to do, well, i don't think she's a very bright person. i do feel that. i think that's -- and you know what, our country needs a very smart person and i don't think she's a very smart person. >> why do you think that? >> i don't consider that an insult. that's just a fact. >> it's a story we've reported many times. the tension between trump's advisers telling him to do one thing, his gut, his desire politically to basically destroy an opponent by any means necessary. >> what about the decision to have it in howell, michigan? the harris campaign is saying this is a place that has historical ties to the kkk. last month, just a handful, very few, but a handful of white supremacists tried to hold a march out there. why howell? >> look, the white supremacist march from a couple of weeks ago was an event that occurred and

this town did have a kkk grand dragon who lived here in the '70s and '80s who died in the '90s. i think this attack is a little thin. joe biden campaigned here in 2021. melissa slack talks about how it's a conservative leaning town. that people like her need to win. and as images show, this is a sheriff's department within the detroit metro area that's willing to let inside one of their builds in the middle of a workday. this is a major media market they have to hit and the efforts to sort of tie this together as a racist plot in a small town that's trying to move on from that past. i don't think it passes the smell test. >> thank you very much. still ahead, a generational shift was on display during the first night of the dnc. jared polis will join us. plus, what needle president obama has to thread in his prime time remarks tonight and what

georgia's election board is doing ahead of the november elections that could make it harder for democrats. we are back in 90 seconds. demos we are back in 90 seconds.

a generational transitional is happening at the dnc. what one columnist today is

calling the brat pack. a group of younger politicians that want to go toe to toe with trump on personality. quote, a new approach that elevates attention over restraint, story telling over policy mindedness. fight picking over always taking the high road and thrilling the base over diluting for moderates. that includes aoc who gave a seven-minute speech last night. >> in kamala harris, i see a leader who understands. i see a leader with a real commitment to a better future for working families. and chicago, we have to help her win. because we know that donald trump would sell this country for a dollar if it meant lining his own pockets and greasing the

pockets of his own wall street friends and i for one am tired about hearing about how a two bit union buster thinks of himself as more of a patriot than the woman who fights every single day to lift working people out from the boots trampling our way of life! >> joining us now, jared polis. i think we can lump you in with that group if you don't take offense to that. you're somebody who's very direct. somebody who's willing to be funny as well. you know, recent comments suggest that. and it's a new generation of democratic leaders. what do you think of this new move toward going toe to toe with the opposition? >> i think the voters want somebody who's relatable and i think they see somebody in kamala harris and tim walz that

are just relatable. they're people you would want to hang out with, with with. they're having fun. what a contrast and sort of the contorted nonsense that comes out of donald trump's mouth and bizarre hate fields that come out of vance's mouth. it's about being comfortable with who you are, your personality, and not trying to pretend you're not a person just because you want to be in politics. >> tonight, we're going to see the obamas up on that stage. what do you expect to hear from them? what do you need to hear from them? what do you think the democratic party, the voters who have been disallusioned need to hear? >> the country had eight strong years under obama. i think joe biden was a great transitional president. now it's time for kamala harris. it's time for our first woman president. for somebody who's put criminal behind bars, who thinks differently and thinks forward looking. look, the country doesn't want to move backward to the divided

partisan politics of the past. it's time to move forward and i'm excited about kamala harris. i know the people here in chicago are and the people across the country are. >> so tomorrow, we're going to get kensinger, a bunch of republicans who will be standing on that stage tonight. what do you think of the democratic party opening its arms to folks like this? >> i think it's great because look, you're never going to find a candidate you agree with on everything. it's okay to disagree on policy, but still support them because you think they're a good human being. in this case, you think they're the best way to protect our democracy and the presidency itself in the dangers of another donald trump presidency. so i'm glad it's a broad ten. there's people who agree with kamala on 50% of her positions. even some strong conservatives who might only agree on a few positions but most importantly, they believe in protecting

against donald trump. >> we've heard from harris on the economy which she believes should be front and center if she wins the white house. including price gouging, better housing, and the child tax credit being expanded to $6,000 for the first year of life. what other policies do you think she needs to be clearer on for the american public? i've asked a lot about immigration because the republicans are going hard on that. do you want to hear an immigration speech from harris at some point? >> first, i'm thrilled with reducing childhood poverty. the child tax credit. i'm very excited about the opportunity to grow and expand our trade relationships. the sell made in america, grown in america products overseas get compared to donald trump's 10% tariff. he said he wants a 20% tariff, raising the cost of items so much. democrats stand for border security, for fixing our broken immigration system. we shouldn't shy away from that. if we have the opportunity, we're going to solve the border crisis and move forward to make

our country safer. >> how's the, is registration universal in colorado? >> you can register anytime, right up until the election. even on election day itself. we have one of the highest voter turnout rates in the country. >> how is it looking now? >> like a lot of states, we have a plurality soon to be a majority of unaffiliated voters. people are leaving both parties to become unaffiliated. they want to vote for the candidate rather than the party. i think that's what kamala harris really represents. this era of saying look, i trust you. the character, the integrity, the intelligence to lead our nation for democrats, independents. it's only a matter of time until independents are more than 50% of the voters in colorado. i know that's happening across the states as well. >> i asked senator bob casey this yesterday because i wanted to get a sense of the leaders and individual states, how they

gauged where the enthusiasm was. so if it's not voter registration, have you seen another metric that indicates to you that things might have changed or have you seen no change whatsoever? >> absolutely. people signing up to walk door to door. people signing up to make phone calls. the donations have been coming in. look, i think enthusiasm went from a two to a ten. we've seen its already. i think we will see it in voter registration, that might take a little longer, but we saw people signing up to work shifts, go door to door, make phone calls and support our candidates across the board. >> governor polis, got a frog in my throat. thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> and president biden eked out a win in georgia in 2020. vp harris could be poised to do the same. what the georgia elections board is doing that could put that

effort maybe not in jeopardy, but could make it more difficult. and the obamas are back. what people close to him are telling reporters about the challenge of his speech tonight. . here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it.

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this is not your typical election. it's not just a choice between parties or policies.

the usual debates between left and right. this is a more fundamental choice. about who we are as a people. and whether he stay true to this great american experiment in self-government. >> that was president obama at the dnc in 2016, but it could have been something we might hear tonight when president obama takes the stage again. not a typical election. a lot on the line for democracy, certainly, and a lot of barriers that stand to be broken, yes. "the new york times" reporter, david sanger, made those allusions. he also writes it will be up to the obamas to move past president biden's swan song and into the new kamala era, saying quote, it is mr. obama's job to separate miss harris from the biden years while making the case that she was central enough to the biden administration to slip seamlessly into the job. and then he must seek to transfer to miss harris the

sense of endless horizons that surround his own first run for the presidency. joining us now, anchor chris jansing. also joining us, former chief spokesperson for -- simone. chris, you were in the white house during the obama years. he made that speech about hillary clinton. a lot of the same stuff still stands true today. what's the expectation? >> fire. i think that's what the obamas always bring, especially at the big moments. and as i stand in front of the illinois sign, it's kind of a homecoming for them, but it's also a reunion of sorts because they have known kamala harris for a very long time. so they're going to be speaking from a very personal point of view. she was going door to door. she was campaigning for barack obama when he ran for the senate. he knew her when she was a local elected in san francisco.

so that knowledge, that worth, that friendship is something they bring. also, they're two of the most popular democrats if not the two most popular democrats. so this place is going to go wild. i don't think anybody's going out on a limb to predict that. they're also, they have mad rhetorical skills. i was in the room in boston in 2004 when barack obama burst on to the scene with his keynote address for john kerry. it immediately had people talking about him as a possible president and of course, it was michelle obama who delivered when they go low, we go high. one of the most quoted parts of a political speech that has happened in this century probably. so they're going to be a couple of people who are not going to follow on the heels i think of a joe biden, but maybe more hillary clinton. people who have inspired a lot of the folks in this room. i talked to some of them. california delegates last night

who were very emotional thinking about the possibility of a black woman president. let me play some of that for you. >> made it okay for me to do whatever i want to do and they're, they're my celebrities, i guess. they're my idols, you know? and seeing hillary tonight, it is bittersweet because she should have been there, but we'll get there this time. for sure. we will get there. like, there's no doubt. >> how are you feeling tonight? >> extremely inspired and everything she just said about we cannot be complacent. we must volunteer. we may not take anything for granted is exactly what we're going to do and we're going to keep fighting every day. we're going to be knocking on doors, making phone calls, and sending texts. >> i feel hopeful. and this is, it's emotional because we've gone through seven years of pure hell and it is nice to have hope again. >> that word, hope, of course, barack obama promised to bring

hope and change. this is something that folks here are very much looking for. they're also looking, at least with a lot of hope, to reproducing what was unparalleled. that was the obama coalition from 2008. and they're feeling it. they are wanting it and more important than anything else, and i think you and i talked about this yesterday, they're willing to do the work to try to bring it. >> thank you very much. simone, back to the obamas. dig deeper on it. so popular. for a long time within the democratic party. obviously the greatest, he really is the greatest orator for the democratic party that lives right now. and michelle obama -- >> i think bill clinton might say hold my beer. >> speaking right now, say that. and michelle obama, extremely popular. are they still, can they still inspire enough americans to want to vote for democrats? he's going to inspire that room. base democratic voters, no doubt

about that. but to win elections now, you've got to go above and beyond. is he still effective? >> yes. i think that president obama and mr. obama are very effective but i don't think this election will be won or lost on if people, if, on if the obamas turn them out to vote, if you get what i'm saying. it's not going to be on barack obama and michelle obama if vice president harris is not successful in this election. but i think this appearance is important for two reasons. one, because folks have not seen the obamas. democrats are like, yes, they are here. anytime there was this video, these viral videos of president obama at the summer league games in las vegas and when he showed up, the videos we want viral. he's saying hello to the players on the sidelines and the people in the crowd are just going crazy. that electricness that he and mrs. obama bring is going to be very important to just continuing that wave of energy in the room. it's also important for a second reason. it's because since president obama has left office, he and

mr. obama have focused on a lot of different projects but one of the things i know for sure that has been a driving force of some of their work is it's bringing people who feel disaffected by government back into the fold. demonstrating to them basically that government can work for the people. and president obama specifically, i've heard him say on a number of occasions that young people need to know that getting involved in the system, getting involved in government can do something for them. i think a concern they have had is that a generation, millennials, people like myself, when i first voted, it was 2008. obama was my first presidential election and millennials saw a recession. they elected. they went out and elected a black president. only to see more people that look like them die at the hands of police officers. you know what i'm saying? so there is this idea that oh,

maybe government and public service is not a way in which to create change in this country. i think the obamas don't believe that's true and understand that's something happening out there and they want to bring the idea that back that no government can work for folks. >> we're not talking a lot about, as much as i think we would have been talking a few years ago about how harris might be the first female president. the first woman in office. i wonder why you think that is. i think part of it is what happened with hillary clinton and what we saw in 2020 with so many women running for president in the democratic party then this year with nikki haley going up against donald trump and drawing quite a few voters in the republican primary away from him. does it feel more normal today? is that why that's not top of mind, top of lips in every conversation? >> i think for a couple of reasons. one in which i think for the current republican party apparatus, the culture wars are not just a distraction.

they are the playbook. i think republicans would love nothing more than for kamala harris to stand up and say elect me because i'll be the first. she's saying elect me because of all these other things. she is not saying that. i think this is a smart strategy but i also think that is authentic to the vice president herself. she's been the first in everything she's done. the first woman, first woman of color, first black woman elected district attorney in san francisco. attorney general in california. only the second black woman ever to serve in the united states senate. so she has has experience here running and being the first but also understanding that that is not the thing that's going to win elections. back to obama, he didn't say elect me because i'll be the first black president. he said a lot of other things. >> really good to have you, as always. coming up, we're going to talk about gender because they might not be running on it, but there's a massive gender gap in the polls that could translate to the ballot box. first though, what the

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the georgia state election board has passed another rule that could delay the 2024 results. it allowed for a hand recount of votes to make sure the number of voters matches the number of ballots. it comes nearly two weeks after

the same board said it would let county officials delay certified results while conducting quote reasonable inquiries. joining us now, latasha brown. really good to have you. on paper, these might seem like reasonable requests from the election board. how do you read these changes? >> i think it's an interesting strategy that i think the republicans and trump camp plans to use is disrupt, dismantle. and disenfranchise voters in georgia. georgia is now a state in play that what we know is now that we're looking at the margins of being so small that now it seems like there's a new burst of energy in the state. so there are elected officials we firmly feel that are using this as another tactic around not just voter suppression, but they're taking it a step further. it's so delay the process for

certification so if they don't like the results, they can challenge the results and draw out this process to really put a cloud around this election results. >> so how are you planning on attacking then? getting around it? >> you know, one, i think there are a couple of ways. we've got to overwhelm the vote. i think voters have to come out in masses this election cycle. so that the margin is not small. the second thing we've got to do is there's a legal strategy. we've got poll watchers, workers and officials and lawyers on deck that as this goes down that we've got people in place we're partnering with groups like the lawyers committee for civil rights, with the ldf, legal defense fund, and naacp. one, it has to be voting. one has to be a legal strategy and we've got to call this out before it happens. we know what's going to happen and we've got to call this out and make sure we're informing the public of what is going to

happen. >> do you have a definition of reasonable inquiries? the election board says county officials can delay certifying based on reasonable inquiries. >> isn't that what trump called for? he wanted a reasonable inquiry around finding 11,000 votes in the state of georgia. the bottom line is there's no definition for it because it's something they want the ambiguity around it gives them the space to be able to actually get this election and say we're not going to certify the election. we have to really recognize what's happening. it's not by accident that trump is not out campaigning. i think what he plans on doing is at this election at the end is to really be able to decertify or not necessarily certified results and call into question as in the previous election. >> thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you very having me. up next, steve kornacki joins us with a breakdown of the ever widening gap in the polls between men and women. the polls between men anwod men. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard!

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with fastsigns, create striking custom visuals that inspire pride district-wide. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. while the democrats are going hard on healthcare, reproductive rights and ivf, republicans are leaning into male grievance, raising the prospect of a boys versus girls election and so far, the polling is bearing that out. joining me now, steve kornacki. so, boy-girl divide? >> let's take a look. in some ways, it's nothing new. we've had a gender gap in

presidential elections starting in 1980 so the question is are we seeing a normal gender gap, which would be big, or something that's an normally large. this is from the national level. in 2020 in the election, donald trump beat joe biden among men by five points. this is an average of all of the post election, exit poll, other post election data. trump by five among men, 2020. now in the final month of joe biden's campaign this summer in the average of all polls then, harris gets in and it is a month now and the average with harris as the democratic candidate is trump by 7. so that margin among men have come down but still that is the norm in the gender gap era. on average trump by 7 now. flip it to women. 2020, biden wins women by 13 points. in the final month of his campaign, joe biden leads among women by just five points. he was shedding ground there as

he was with many groups and now with kamala harris, the democratic advantage up to nine among women. so think about that. on average right now, trump lead as mong men by 7 and harris leads by 9 and 7 plus 9 is a 16 point gender gap. that is big. and that is normal big. because the gender gap in 2020 was 18 points. so that is in and of itself is kind of the norm. this, though, what i'm going to show you, is not the norm and that is where the question comes in. state level, now one pollster, one set of polls is what you're looking at here, "the new york times" and siena, battleground states. but look at michigan. trump by 20 among men and that is a gender gap of 50, 48 points and aharris 21 points. georgia, 30 point gender gap. this would be abnormal. this would be exceptionally

large. one poll as i say, room for statistical noise here. you could see look in pennsylvania, they only found an eight point gender gap and that is reflects how the numbers could bounce around and be noisy. that is why this is a question more than an exclamation mark. do we see this in polls, is this the norm in michigan, wisconsin and georgia, key states. that would be new. that would be extremely significant. how you could explain it in maybe there are state specific effects. these states get the ad dollars. people see the campaign that folks not in battleground states don't. and abortion politics, settled at the state level. are there state political considerations that might drive gender gaps. those are possible explanations if, if this is something we continue to see in polls. but that is what to watch for. that is the question mark. that is where we're seeing something abnormal in this set

of state level polls. >> steve, thank you very much. and joining us now, writer at large and author of all of the single ladies and the rise of an independent nation, rebecca tracer, i like the color you're wearing today. >> we're matching. >> steve got into the numbers. how do you read that gender gap? >> well, it is fascinating. i love what steve said how we're looking at a question mark not an exclamation point because we're at a question mark moment. there is no model historically for what we're doing right now and i mean that from a lot of ways. this is only the second woman to run as a major party nominee. we've never had a black and south asian woman on a ticket before as a presidential candidate. we've never run a presidential campaign in the wake of roe v. wade being overturned and you have years of on the ground organizing, largely by women who are new to political organizing on state and local levels. we don't have models that will

accommodate for this. and we're seeing both parties behave in really interesting ways around gender that we haven't seen before either. i mean right in this room last night, i listened to two men, senator warnock and andy beshear talking about reproductive rights. that is after a series of abortion storytellers. this is stuff we haven't -- we don't have a model for what is going to happen and that, i think, is why steve's point that we're in the middle of a question mark moment is well taken. >> it does feel like there is less of a -- she will be the first woman president if she wins, first black and south asian woman. she's already been a lot of firsts in her career. >> yeah. >> but the issue of gender, it feels less forefront in 2024 than it did in 2016. can you explain that? >> well, i'm not sure -- it is presented differently. one of the things that you have to remember about hillary clinton's history as a presidential candidate, in 2008,

the first campaign for the presidency, when she lost the primary to barack obama, she did not address her gender at all. there were exceptions as the campaign wore on. but she came out of the gate not wanting to make a big deal about being the first woman. she had instructions from her campaign staff to not emphasize her gender as a historic first. and her 2016 run was a corrective to that which had not worked. barack obama got the nomination in a historic candidacy of his own. so in 2016, there was much more emphasis on the broken glass ceiling and hillary clinton as the first. one of the things that i'm seeing now is that it is the conversation around gender feel more diffuse. you have so many women on the stages, so many women doing the organizers and woman who have won in historic numbers since 2016, 2018 congressional elections that brought a historic class of first time candidates, many of them women

into office. our whole perception of what it means around being a woman in politics is so much more less focused on the single woman at the top of the ticket, so, could have rs, the woman at the top of the ticket is producing excitement and we're also really talking about men as having gender too, which is crucially important. that is what, you know, when you have tim walz and -- and andy beshear and rafael warnock out there talking about gender and reproductive health care and acknowledging that -- and you have the white dudes for harris call, you have men talking about themselves and in their own role in family and reproductive life and that is different too. >> and it is caused a massive reaction on the other side among conservatives who want to turn to something more akin to barstool bro-ism or what is dubbed as neo traditionalism, back where the man is on top metaphorically speaking. rebecca tracer, thank you so much for joining us.

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