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first look at governor walz introduction being dubbed as walz wednesday. we're going to show you in a moment. first, a look again at the power of last night, and why this convention feels so fresh. michelle obama summed it up like this. saying, quote, hope is making a comeback. she's right. for those of us who remember, this convention does feel a whole lot like 2008, when, as barack obama said last night, the dnc was good to a kid with a funny name. ultimately the electorate was good to him as well. will it be good to another kid with a funny name this year. that answer is firm maybe. along with the fundraising numbers and the better polling, this race against donald trump is still very much a race. >> the torch has been passed.

now it is up to all of us to fight for the america we believe in. and make no mistake, it will be a fight for all the incredible energy we have been able to generate over the last few weeks, for all the rallies and the memes, this will still be a tight race, in a closely divided country. >> it's up to us to remember what kamala's mother told her, don't just sit around and complain. do something. so if they lie about her, and they will, we've got to do something. if we see a bad poll, and we will, we got to put down that phone and do something. if we start feeling tired, if we start feeling that dread creeping back in, we got to pick ourselves up, throw water on our face, and, what? do something. >> we're going to go through a

lot more highlights from last night throughout the hour, but we do want to start with what this vibe shift could be offering the democrats. it is more than just a chance to keep the white house. according to chuck schumer, the majority leader, it's a chance to keep the senate something that until now felt out of reach. joining us msnbc political contributor, eugene daniels. talk to me about the chances chuck schumer says the democrats have in keeping, maybe even adding to their lead in the senate? >> she's talking about the senate just a few weeks ago. we're a month out from president biden dropping the bid for the white house. the feeling really good, trying not to be too bullish. you can even see it in the way some of these senators have gotten on the role for vice president harris.

some have stood with her on stages when they weren't doing that for president biden. and so what they're feeling is that the drag that was happening in the polling is no longer there. that's why they were trying to make clear to president biden that they want him to leave. it wasn't just the debate. it was the drag on other folks across and down the ticket, senators, members of congress, and because now when you talk to them, when you look at the polling, even jackie rosen, she looks much better when it comes to the polling. you're talking about a party that not only feels excited about vice president harris, but what getting rid of, i guess, president biden did. not only does it excite people, you know, i talked to governor sununu, a republican at the rnc, and what he said -- this was before president biden dropped his bid -- he said, whoever decides that they're going to kind of get rid of the 80-year-old from the top of the

ticket, independents and moderate republicans are going to be much more interested in that ticket now. that is exactly what you're seeing. that's kind of starting to bear out in the polling. >> they're going to lose a seat with joe manchin, they're going to lose him in west virginia. that's basically certain. there's still tight races for jackie rosen, as you mentioned in nevada. for jon tester in montana, for sherrod brown in ohio, none of them, by the way, are at the democratic national convention. chuck schumer, the majority leader isn't just saying that they're going to keep the majority, he's saying they're going to add seats. so are they going to keep all of these three, yes, i guess, and if there is a pickup, one or two, where are the democrats looking? >> you know, what's interesting when you try to get specific with them, they don't give a name. they don't say where they think that's going to happen. it's definitely not happening, as you said, in west virginia, and so a lot of this is, i think, trying to make sure that the vibes stay high, right,

people felt so in the doldrums of this race at this point, and chuck schumer in his role, as one of the leaders of the party is just kind of trying to signal to people, oh, no, we're going to do this. you talk to someone like gary peters, the head of the campaign arm of senate democrats, he kind of says the same thing, but they are looking at adding these seats. but then when you try to get specifics from them, they're not always very specific about the addition. i think what's more likely is that the key -- you could possibly end up with a 50/50 senate again, and, you know, depending on who the vice president is, they may serve as exactly what vice president harris did for a while, as that tie breaking vote. >> if a majority of the democrats win, a minority. if the republicans win. is there a single issue they believe might drive more voters to the poll or is it a different issue for each state? >> they think it's a different issue for each state. however, reproduction access,

abortion, as we have seen, in basically every election since dobbs came down was overturned, that is the thing that is motivating a lot of people, right? you look at sherrod brown in ohio. you look at jackie rosen. you look at even jon tester. for jon tester, he's not going to talk about reproductive access as much as someone in a bluer state would do. but the idea of freedom, vice president harris walking out to the beyonce song every chance she can get, talking about freedom, and being able to do what you want to do, the way governor walz talking about people minding their own business. that's the way they're going to keep framing this. in certain states you're going to hear more about abortion, same-sex marriage, you're going to hear about banned books in schools or what's happening in some of these educational areas. and they're threading the needle. >> eugene daniels, thank you so

much. i know you're fighting with the gentleman behind you. a nice man named john legend, if you reck anything the chords, he's going to be doing a prince tribute tonight in honor of course of the minnesota governor tim walz. eugene, thank you. joining us former california senator, barbara boxer, whose senate seat kamala harris won in 2016, after senator boxer retired. i would love to stick on the issue of down ballot races for us. are you as bullish on keeping the senate as chuck schumer is projecting himself to be? >> i'm quite more bullish than you are, katy, because i've seen the polls of jackie rosen and tester and the others, sherrod, they're all running very strong at the moment. yes, we have to keep up the momentum. and there are a couple of seats like florida, you know, there's even somebody talking about nebraska, and you never know, if this joy that we're feeling here in this convention spreads across the country, and people

vote their optimism and not their fears, everything could happen. the last point on this. i'm involved in a very tight race where i live in california. and with kamala at the top of the ticket, there's such excitement, there's going to be a huge turnout in california that we weren't going to have before, and we have about three, four, five races in the house that could go either way. mine is the will rollins, ken calvert race, that's going to depend on turnout. that's a 50/50 district. >> chris hayes had on lucas koonce, a bizarre moment where josh hawley was asking to debate him immediately, even though they have a number, i think, five televised debates, and chris wondered outloud, is josh hawley seeing different internal polling that is making him pull a stunt like that. usually it's the person behind in the polls who's trying to get that sort of attention.

we'll see. let's talk more about the moment, though. this is a woman, kamala harris, who's getting the nomination tomorrow, officially being handed it, making a big speech. she's the person who took over your senate seat. she has been on a roller coaster ride, just a straight up roller coaster ride, hopefully one that doesn't come down in her view, up to this position. do you feel that -- do you feel like she's doing a good job so far? are you impressed? or what are you thinking? >> i'm very impressed. you know, kamala ran for president the last time, and joe biden defeated her, and then she became the vp, and she, you know, literally stood by the master. she watched. he had a portfolio. she learned foreign policy, domestic policy. i am so impressed, and i've watched her so carefully over the years, she's grown into this in an amazing way. and she's comfortable with who she is.

she wants to bring her story of the american dream forward. it's such a comparison to this angry republican maga trump who wants you to vote out of your fear, not out of your joy. he wants you to be angry, not happy. and after her last, yeah, she's a joyful person, and she wants that joy for everyone. she's going to fight for us all so we all have that latch and -- laugh and that smile. >> i think i should have said rocket ship. more apt for the moment. let me ask you quickly about rfk. he's making a big announcement on saturday. the speculation is that he is going to be ending his race. >> boohoo. listen, i have to say a couple of things. number one, to anyone who was voting for him because of his name, he will be gone, listen to the rest of the family. they are all for kamala harris. they are totally against donald trump. so i think it could give kamala

a bit of a bump. i really do think so. a lot of them won't vote at all. that was just a very odd candidacy. but at the end of the day, there's people who vote for him because his name is kennedy, and they think of teddy, and they think of, you know, bobby, and john, and he was nothing like that. he was a very odd duck, strange candidate. so this is the moment to pull behind kamala harris. go there. we welcome everybody. >> family certainly wasn't on his side either. senator, thank you as always for joining us. joining us no in chicago, nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell with the promised preview of the tim walz introduction tonight. >> reporter: good to be with you, katy. these sort of moments are important on the campaign level, but also they're an opportunity for using some creativity, and what the campaign has decided to do is switch things up a little bit. instead of having gwen walz, the

first lady of minnesota introduce her husband, she's narrating a video that will help to tell the story of tim walz as a dad, a teacher, a coach, someone who served in the national guard and served in congress, and to be able to do that by having students and others tell that story. we were able to get a clip of this film that will play tonight, and here is a portion of it. >> with tim as governor, minnesota is one of the best places to raise a family and one of the best states for business. tim's a lifelong hunter and gun owner. but after the sandy hook school shooting, he knew that we had to do something, so he has fought for background checks and red flag laws. but of all the things he's done, tim loves being a dad. we struggled to have kids. and fertility treatments made it possible. there's a reason our daughter is

named hope. hope and gus mean the world to us. >> governor walz, making good on a promise to his son and family yesterday by getting him a puppy. >> then we're going to get some food, corn dogs. >> i'm vegetarian. >> turkey then. >> turkey is meat. >> not many minnesota. turkey is special. >> he's at home on a farm, fishing boat, football field or a factory floor as he is on the floor of congress. tim's commitment to service all comes back to the values we grew up with. love your country. help your neighbor. and fight for what's right. because that's what america is all about. >> that is a taste of what we will experience tonight, and you can see in just that one clip the ways they're going to try to define and introduce tim walz. i'm also told that he will make a case about patriotism and service and a case for kamala harris who he has joined on this journey toward november.

and of course minnesota will be big in the house tonight, and if you've been able to hear any of what's happening behind me, katy, the sounds of prince, which is sort of the sound track of my young and hip years, and of course prince was, you know, a star of minnesota. so that's the connection there. john legend is standing in tonight, and sheila e. who of course performed with prince back in the day. they're here. that's one of the surprises of the night, but because they are rehearsing behind us now, we can't help but let that out of the bag just a little bit. >> can't hide from our news cameras. i love that clip where his daughter said a vegetarian. okay, you'll have a turkey dog. >> relatable. >> it reminds me of my big fat greek wedding. okay, i'll make lamb. kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. still ahead, what is giving democrats deja vu in a good way, and will it help at the ballot

box? plus, some big moments from barack and michelle obama. some of last night's most memorable moments after this nch . the electoral map seems to be changing. steve kornacki is here. we are back in 90 seconds. if if why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency.

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♪♪ ladies and gentlemen, we are here tonight to officially nominate kamala harris for president. ♪♪ we're not going back. we're not going back we're not going back ♪♪ we're not going back. vp harris. ♪♪ >> i got to say, i watched that so many times today, and i've had it in my head all day, lil john getting things going during roll call for georgia, setting the bar for what was a series of gang buster speeches and origin stories from doug emhoff describing his meet cute with kamala harris, to the obamas trying to rebuild the party's storied coalition, and of course

chuck schumer prancing. that's what we'll call it, prancing. >> i got kamala's voice mail, and i just started rambling. hey, it's doug. i remember i was trying to grab the words out of the air and just put them back in my mouth. by the way, kamala saved that voice mail, and she makes me listen to it on every anniversary. ♪♪ >> something wonderfully magical is in the air, isn't it? you know, we're feeling it here in this arena, but it's spreading all across this country. we love america. hope it making a comeback. yeah. >> there's been childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy

theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes. >> for years, donald trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us. see, his limited, narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard working, highly educated, successful people who happen to be black. [ cheers and applause ] wait, i want to know -- i want to know, who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking just might be one of those black jobs. [ cheers and applause ]

>> only complaint i have is that when they called vermont the roll call for vermont, they did not play phish. how can you not play phish for the roll call for vermont? coming up, what to expect tonight when democrats confront what may be the 2024 ticket's biggest liability, that is immigration. and what's got democrats feeling 2008 all over again? all over a? #

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elect someone who has spent her entire life trying to give people the same chances america gave her. someone who sees you. and hears you. and will get up every single day and fight for you. the next president of the united states of america, kamala harris. >> 2008, 2024 is in the room. the democratic national convention feels so overcome with joy and hope. folks can't help but compare it to the one that nominated barack obama. as kamala harris would say, you exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you. let's place ourselves firmly in this moment and imagine what can be unburdened by what has been. joining us now, former senior adviser to president obama, and author of "why we still can,"

dan fifer. it's really good to have you. there was one moment that knocked me off my chair. i think it was when obama made the crowd size illusion and had the hand movement. i couldn't fathom that he would do something like that until now. and i think it shows us that the democrats are now willing to play a little rougher with the republicans. >> i not going to try to interpret his hand motions, i'll leave that to you and your audience, the way president obama has dealt with someone with trump is not to fear monger about his strengths but use humor to reveal trump to be the clown that he is. to make people understand how small trump is, and that was sort of the gist of the speech last night, right, how he talked about trump as the neighbor who never turns off his leaf blower. that's how obama has approached trump sinces beginning. i think we saw that last night.

i'll leave the hand gesture to anyone else. >> i think it was pretty clear. we'll leave it there. but this is different. you say obama has been able to do this. but the democrats haven't been doing this for the past eight years. they have been making donald trump to seem like a powerful villain who is, you know, so in control of the republican party, and so dangerous that they're making it bigger, as you said, and that has, you know, been led by president biden who did a version of that at the convention on monday as well, and the democratic soon to be following in line behind that. why this change now in is it because kamala harris is at the top of the ticket? she has a lot of the same advisers that president biden did. >> that's how kamala harris has addressed trump as well. i think back to the moment after he questioned her racial identity, and there's so many ways she could have responded to that, and her first event after that, she smiled, had a slight

laugh and said that's more of the same old stuff. we don't have to play trump's game. we don't have to take the bait. we can reveal him to be small, and that is exactly what obama did. that's what the gist of her campaign so far as well. >> what can you tell about the relationship that the obamas have with kamala harris and what sort of role they will be playing for the rest of this campaign? >> they have been friends for 20 years. the president and vice president harris met at a fundraiser when he was running for senate, long before he was a famous person, before anyone thought he might be president, and in the 2008 campaign, this seems hard to imagine now, but we didn't have a lot of public endorsers of politicians, and kamala harris who was then the district attorney of san francisco endorsed obama. she was one of our hardest working surrogates, most loyal supporters. she would go to iowa and knock on doors in sub zero temperatures. everyone on the campaign was grateful for how hard she worked

for president obama, and she really put her -- that was a risky thing to do when he was such a long shot. that's a deep and close relationship. >> again, john legend is doing his sound check behind you, which is why it's getting kind of loud. the guy, there he is. he's right there. he's going to be doing prince tonight in honor of tim walz. i want to play another bite from michelle obama, this one is a very sticky bite that has lived in a lot of people's memories since last night. let's listen. >> she understands that most of us will never be afforded the grace of failing forward. we will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational wealth. if we bankrupt a business, if we bankrupt a business or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second,

third or fourth chance. if things don't go our way, we don't have the luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead, no. we don't get to change the rules so we always win. if we see a mountain in front of us, we don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take us to the top. no. >> dan, so well received in the room, who else gets that message? who else is convinced by that sort of rhetoric? >> i mean, i think michelle obama is probably the person at this convention with the best ability to persuade the most voters. everyone knows that she hates politics. she's not a politician, and she talks to me as my wife who worked for her for a long time, the friend who will never bs you, always tell you like it is. the way she did that, and

there's a kindred spirit between her and president obama and vice president harris, they have been through the ringer in this way. they understand the scrutiny that she is under, the fact that unlike trump, she will not be given multiple opportunities. if she makes one mistake, people will pounce on her. it was setting the stge for the campaign to come, and also taking on donald trump in a way that makes him small, that takes him down, in the sort of way that will make him freak out. he wants you to take his bait in the fear mongering. some of the best speeches i have heard in all of the conventions i've been to. >> the greatest living order, barack obama, except for one, his wife michelle. >> exactly. >> dan fifer, thank you so much. good to have you. still ahead, what polls show about the new pathways to victory that have opened up for the harris/walz ticket. steve kornacki is standing by. first, what will democrats do to push back on the narrative that

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it will be a tough act to follow, but in a few hours, we'll hear from other top democrats who don't have the last name obama before the keynote address from tim walz. we will hear from transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, speaker emerita, nancy pelosi, and former president bill clinton among others.

joining us anchor of "chris jansing reports," chris jansing. they're going to be focusing on immigration, we're told, for this night of the convention. that's going to be a big topic for the election. democrats are behind republicans on the subject of immigration. what do you expect they're going to say regarding the issues at the border? >> yeah, first, can i just say, this is a massive shift for democrats. as you know, katy, immigration has been one of the strongest issues, both in the polls and on the campaign trail for donald trump. they think that it's something that they can even win with, and that's why they have been hitting it so hard, and especially hitting on kamala harris who they like to call the border czar. they say she is directly responsible for millions of undocumented immigrants who they call criminals, murders, thieves, coming over the border and that it's responsible for the crime we're seeing in our cities, neither of which is true, but that we know is

effective, and so nbc news has learned, talking to several sources, that there has been this big shift. you're going to hear on that convention stage tonight, any number of speakers who are going to talk about immigration on the offensive. one big talking point, and we have heard this from the campaign, but not as forcefully as we're going to hear tonight, is that there was a bipartisan border bill, and that donald trump wouldn't let the republicans support it because he felt it would be bad for him campaign. and so we're going to be listening for, among other people, senator chris murphy. he was one of the cosponsors of that bill. he has been arguing very forcefully to the campaign that it's going to be very difficult for them to win if they cede immigration to the republicans. this is a very big strategic decision by them, not to do that. bill clinton, as you said, will be taking the stage. he's someone who, i think, like

tim walz, they share something, right? they are kind of folksy. they have a likability about them on stage, but they can also be very pointed. this is also a big opportunity for tim walz. he's going to reintroduce himself to a lot of people. the key here is going to be to listen, how they actually make these points of attacks. and i think it tells us something, katy. i think it tells us not only what they already knew, that immigration was so strong for republicans, but they are feeling confident enough in their messaging and in their support to take this on in an offensive way, katy. >> chris jansing, thank you very much. and day three of the democratic national convention, and the electoral map appears to be changing. joining us now, nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki. how do things look? >> let's take a look at this way. we have been talking all year about there become six key battleground states. you see them in gray.

until the last month when kamala harris got in the race, there was a clear division between the six battleground states. essentially it was this, against joe biden, donald trump was best positioned in the three, you call them sun belt states, georgia, arizona and nevada. trump was consistently running his best poll numbers in the swing states in these three. part of that was because we had been seeing in the polls that trump had shown some improvement among non-white voters and large non-white populations in the state. one thing we are seeing in the polls, donald trump was best positioned in these three. you add those in, look, it would have put him on the cusp of the presidency. you see kamala harris's name here. it was joe biden, who relatively speaking was putting up his best numbers in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. they still weren't great numbers. he was more in the game in these states than in the sun belt states. the democratic strategy all year had been hold on to those three big ten states there. just get to 270. and survive. that was kind of the game for

democrats. no margin of error. now, what's happened since kamala harris got in the race is we have seen her overall polling improve. we have seen it improve with some specific sub groups of voters. for instance, hispanic voters. hispanic voters are a group that donald trump had shown significant strides with in the 2020 election, and further strides in the polling against joe biden. now, historically speaking, trump is still performing well for a republican in the polls among his panic voters, but harris has improved relative to where joe biden was. and so what that does potentially to this electoral map is it takes a state like nevada, it takes a state like arizona, where against biden, trump had been polling well, and harris has shown some meaningful improvement in the polling in these two states in particular. and what would that mean for the electoral map, well, suppose there's a world here where harris does not hold all three of these states democrats were counting on. what if she lost a pennsylvania. then what if she turned around and got say, excuse me, i'm

going to figure this one out before the election, suppose you then got arizona. it's not enough. then there's another feature that has changed in the last month that's worth pointing out, and that is this state. north carolina. democrats have been talking about all year, trying to make a battleground. there's been a lot of skepticism because, you know, georgia, north carolina, a lot of demographic similarities there. georgia went blue by the slimmest margin in 2020. carolina was still a 75,000 vote win for donald trump, but there has been some polling in the last couple of weeks with kamala harris in the race that's actually suggested maybe the ground is more firm for democrats, a little bit in north carolina than it is in georgia. have they succeeded in making north carolina a true battleground. is there a world where they could win carolina and not georgia. if that were to happen, look at that, you've got arizona and another sun belt state, and now the democrats have lost in this scenario, pennsylvania, and harris is still over 270.

it's a long way of saying the democrats had a very narrow path under joe biden. it was those three states, win them all, or it's all over. the polling gains that harris has made at this point certainly seem to open up nevada and arizona. and some indications that maybe north carolina as well. and if that starts to come into play for democrats, it opens up broader pathways, more possibilities for them, and again, this is early, it's been a month. we'll see how this plays out. but, you know, all year we were looking at the same sort of scenario. time after time, looking at this map. you we're starting to see some other possibilities. >> steve, what about georgia? >> that's the interesting thing. when you talk about the polling we have seen since harris replaced biden. as i say, we have seen gains for harris definitely in arizona, in nevada. we have seen her ahead in a couple of polls in north carolina. actually, of all of these battleground states so far, and again, there's not a ton of

polling. the one where donald trump has endured the best since harris got in has actually been georgia. so, you know, there's theories now about why, as we say, because biden was stronger in georgia than he was in north carolina in 2020. north carolina was a red state in 2020, but that's what's surprising in the polling so far is that harris has actually been running better in north carolina in some polls than in georgia, and again, that would suggest, 16 electoral votes, 15 electoral votes, almost a tradeoff between the two of them. democrats wanted to make north carolina a battleground, if they truly have, and it's something they can win without winning georgia, you could see what it does to the map. >> steve kornacki, thank you. and what it means to have people that are part of the maga movement speaking out against the former president against the dnc, along with news about what donald trump just said about the election. and also what some black men told trymaine lee day they're going to do in november, a key

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all right, so we just got a little bit of sound from donald trump that i want to play at his event in asheboro, north carolina, talking about his plan of attack on the election and election day. >> and our primary focus is not to get out the vote. it's to make sure they don't cheat. because we have all the votes you need. you can see it every house along the way has signs, trump, trump, trump, trump/vance, and by the way, vance is doing a great job. >> david, sounds a whole lot like what he said in the lead up to 2020, also what he said in the lead up to 2016. then stopped saying once he won. it feels like he's seeding the ground to claim the election was stolen from him again if he loses? he does. we should not be surprised. we should be prepared. unlike in 2020, we should be prepared for what that means. the irony is we don't need to

get out the vote. we need to keep it from being stolen. that kind of messaging makes it more likely he's going to lose. you don't have to do the blocking and tackling and serious work of getting people to the polls. you just have faith they are going to show up. he does have a very, very dedicated fan base, no question about it. it wasn't enough last time. it's looking right now that it might not be enough this time. so the difference between 2020 and 2016 when he said all this is we hadn't seen january 6th yet. now we have seen january 6th. there's no excuse not to be prepared in case he loses again. >> is this country prepared not just to bat back the rhetoric, but to make sure that the election and the results of the election are maintained? i ask that because donald trump and his allies have done a lot of effort into getting him to places where they can have more control over the election in individual states. we have been talking about georgia a lot lately and the

georgia election board and the stuff they are putting in place to make it easier to test the election down there. >> this is why the 2022 elections mattered a lot. because in 2022, you had a lot of these swing state elections that lost. so you have a very solid secretary of state in georgia right now moving into 2024, who won reelection. you have a lot of the truly maga election deniers at the statewide level lost in 2022. here's what's different about 2024. we have a new version of the act that doesn't allow the same kind of shenanigans that the old one did. in 2024 if kamala harris wins, she will be the vice president presiding over the election count instead of a republican vice president. pence did the right thing, but you're less vulnerable to another kind ofjanuary 6th with

a democratic vice president confronting trump. so there are things that we have done, but i'm not sure that it has sunk into the public as much that we could see a repeat. republicans have been good at minimizing january 6th ever since it happened. i don't foe if the public is ready. >> let me ask you about something small. the election board says that reasonable inquiries can hold up the results of an election. and if somebody puts out reasonable inquiries and go and do an investigation and the board says despite the ballots and the counting that they don't feel like something is right there, what happens then? >> what you would see is litigation. this is where the trump team performed the worst in the 2020 cycle. in 2020, they got some headway with state legislatures. not enough headway to get done what they wanted to get done, but they got more headway with the legislatures in some of

these hearings that they had. then the courts, that's their achilles heal. they have the trump-appointed judges not listening to trump's arguments. there's no indication the judiciary is anymore prepared. a key trump argument the state legislature doctrine just got gutted by the supreme court. so judicial branch is better prepared, i think. the electoral count act is better. and you wouldn't worry about kamala harris not certifying her own election. so we are in a better position in some ways, but i'm with you. some of the shenanigans you hear from local election boards or state election boards is very concerning, but we have built some better firewalls since 2020. not perfect, i wish we could have done more, but we have built some firewalls. >> the reason i love having you

on is we did a realtime pivot after this sound from donald trump regarding the goal for him, the making sure they are not cheating instead of the get out the vote effort. you're so knowledgeable and you're so able to turn on a dime and explain clearly what's going on in individual states, but also what's happening in the courts. so i appreciate you. if thank you for coming on. >> thank you. i appreciate it. coming up next, what a key group of voters are saying about the november elections now that kamala harris, not joe biden, is leading the ticket. la harris, ns leading the ticket to celebrate life's intense moments. use dove men bodywash with its 24-hour nourishing micromoisture enjoy healthier smoother-feeling skin all day with dove men body wash. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

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person shouldn't be dealing with humanity altogether. and the other person -- i don't know much about her. she's been in office for the past three and a half years. >> i don't feel cheated. i feel excited about the fact that we have a chance to make history again. and in doing that, i'm a part of that. >> right about now, i feel excited about the election. i will admit when i thought it was going to be biden for the democratic party, i honestly felt like trump would have beat biden. because of his age, his mental state. but since kamala has come along, i think we really have a good shot at it. i don't feel like no one should ever put all their eggs in one basket, because there's only so much she can can do.

>> me personally, i feel like i don't necessarily feel like i have been cheated, but it's hard to get behind. i feel like kamala has given us a new energy. before it was just like kamala i get a little bit of hope. i'm also kind of saddened by how people that look like me have talked about her. even if you don't necessarily agree or know about her record, or think she's the best person for the job, you want to give her a chance, you'd rather give him a chance? for me, that doesn't sit well with me. i could never openly support a man that comports himself in public the way trump does.

for me alone, for that fact alone, i feel like i really have no choice. but i also don't feel like me voting for kamala right now is going to do anything for me realistically in my life. i feel like my life could change negatively if trump does get in office. i feel like it could also change negatively if kamala gets in office. >> joining us now is correspondent tra main lee. you have been following this demographic shift. what have you seen beyond what we heard there since kamala harris got the nomination? >> reporter: i'll tell you what. that spark of excitement across democratic circles hasn't been lost on black men, that have become a special swing demographic, this tug of war over black men. one thing i find interesting is while donald trump's appeal for black people has