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good morning to you, to sunday august 25th. we begin with breaking news out of the middle east. overnight, israel launched a large series of airstrikes against hezbollah using about 100 fighter jets striking more than 40 targets in southern lebanon according to the idf. israel says the state station strikes were pre-emptive and targeted hezbollah rockets and firing canisters that were supposedly aimed toward israel and preparing to fire. according to local officials, at least three people were killed by the strikes in lebanon. shortly thereafter, hezbollah fired more than 320 rockets and drones toward israel. in what appears to be the largest hezbollah strike on israel since october the seventh. according to has block officials that claim to to hit 11 military targets hear the militant group says that was in response to israel's killing of hezbollah's late leader in beirut, in july and rejected

israel's claim that it was preparing to fire first. soon after that hezbollah announced its operations were a success and were complete. israel too implied it was done. tensions have slowly been escalating between israel and hezbollah for months, which -- with each stride raising fears of a full-fledged war and at the same time hostage talks are continuing in cairo, regarding the war in gaza. the cia director bill burns, another -- and other officials are participating in that and an israeli official tells nbc news israel is still sending a delegation to cairo despite today's fighting with hezbollah. hamas is not directly taking part in the talks, they are representing by egypt and qatar but a senior hamas official tells nbc news that a delegation will be in egypt for the talks. joining me from tel aviv is nbc news international correspondent matt bradley.

a couple of things are going on, first of all with hezbollah there was always expectation that there was going to be retaliatory strike for the hezbollah leader who was killed in a beirut suburb in july. hezbollah seems to be saying, that is it, that was it, what they did today. what you make of this? >> reporter: it kind of looks like something we kind of thought in april between israel and iran. it looks like more of a symbolic gesture of a strike and like a face-saving climb back. we've been hearing rhetoric from hezbollah for a long time, ever since the assassination a month ago, that's what i mean by a long time and it looks as though they follow through. but in such a way that it didn't necessarily put a lot of lives in danger here on the ground. hezbollah must've known israelis were going to intercept a lot of these drones and a lot of these rockets. i spoke with an idf spokesman just a few minutes ago and he was saying look, this was a real attack and there was is worth of drones, they were not trying to spare lives but we have to remember at the same time, they've been using --

they said they were using 320 rockets. these rockets they were using 20 years ago in 2006, the cia and other observers know that hezbollah has a much more sophisticated arsenal than they did 20 years ago. they are effective weapons but they are not very, they don't really strike specifically. they are kind of out of date. we know that they have much more targeted weapons in their arsenal and it appears they were holding those back. why? is sort of looks as though this might have been named not at starting a major war but as a gesture for appeasing those at home, those within hezbollah's throwing red meat to the base to use an american term and saying look, we are taking the lead and fighting back against israelis and this is satisfying our eval for revenge against the killing last month in the suburb of the -- of beirut. it really does look like it was

meant to punish israelis, meant to put them on notice. but also meant to say we are doing the thing. we are doing our best and while also averting a regionwide war that would've been a nightmare for lebanon and for countries elsewhere in the region. >> matt, let's talk about the other side of israel, what's going on in gaza and the cease- fire hostage talks which have been on-again, off-again. remember this deal we are in was first announced by joe biden who said it was an israeli deal on may 31st. and we are now almost at the end of august. it is still the bones of the same deal and apparently everybody sort of signed on but so much has changed because the political leader of hamas is been assassinated, the sort of more militant guy in i'm off is now in charge. where do you think we are with this hostage negotiation? >> reporter: to your last point, yahya sinwar, we don't know where he is somewhere in the gaza trip, he's been in charge

when it comes to these negotiations. he has the last sign off and he is a very extreme leader in hamas. but at the same time, we saw all of these events this morning, this very threatening escalation that was led by the israeli pre-emptive strike. israel, hours later, it still sending a delegation to cairo, to continue negotiations and i spoke with a representation from the government this morning and this person was telling me that look, there's still a commitment to try to go through with the negotiations. there is this desire to get the rest of the hostages out and bring a measure of peace to the gaza strip. and more than -- as much as that, to assuage all the other countries in the region to keep them from stepping off the precipice of war that everyone has just really edged up to in in the last couple of weeks. there is a lot riding on the glaciations and the fact that they are continuing is probably what is keeping the iranians

from their about retaliation against the killing of -- hours after in a beirut last month. these negotiations, as i mentioned, have been shrouded in pessimism ever since november when they were less successful. there was only a week they lasted but they did free a lot of those hostages and quite a few palestinian president -- prisoners in israeli jails. doesn't look like there's a lot of optimism they can succeed in cairo now but at the same time, this is averting a wider war and that is important. >> matt, you are pulling a long night and it is not over yet for you. good thing it is sunlight for you but thank you for your reporting. we will be back in an update in the next hour. matt bradley in an tel aviv. let's turn to domestic politics. 72 days left until election day. the last six weeks have been a whirlwind.

in that time there's been a shakeup in the presidential race, assassination attempt on the republican nominee's life, two political conventions and two running mates selected. but this week the trail has been quiet. neither candidate has any public events scheduled until wednesday when kamala harris and tim walz unite for a bus tour through georgia while donald trump heads to michigan and wisconsin on thursday. and with the first debate between harris and trump happening in 16 days, the next phase of the race will likely focus more on the canada's agendas and policy priorities. last week's democratic convention operated preview of issues that will likely be central to her campaign. and how she intends to position herself against donald trump. harris' keynote speech thursday night emphasized her middle- class upbringing. she vowed that building out the middle class will be quote, a defining goal of her presidency. at the convention she received ears endorsements from leaders of a number of top labor unions including shawn fain, the president of the united auto workers union who called a trump a scab during his speech

at the dnc. the uaw recently filed federal labor charges against trump and the billionaire entrepreneur elon musk after the former president suggested during an interview with mosque that striking workers should be fired. that is illegal by the way. trumps antiunion stance is consistent with chapter 18 of this project 2025, which is the radical right wing blueprint for the next republican administration. it was drafted up by the heritage foundation with the involvement of many people who worked for the trump administration. later in the show i'm going to get into a lot of detail about the heritage foundation and what it is, and what it does. project 2025 seeks to make it easier to disband unions and weaken worker protections including workplace safety standards and antidiscriminatory actresses. as you know i talk about project 2025 on every single show that we do, so it does a lot of things but with respect

to workers, that is one of the things it does. and that is the alternative that trump and his allies have in mind. the two candidate visions cannot be different as it relates to workers and economic policy. of the policies harris ruled out so far, her plans to tackle the country's housing crisis is the most lashed out. she's calling for construction of 3 million new housing units over the next four years, which he intends to achieve by offering tax incentives and other incentives for homebuilders and incentives for homebuyers. harris offered a proposal for a $40 billion innovation fund to encourage local governments to find better solutions to housing. she plans to help first time homeowners to buy homes by offering $25,000 in down payment assistance. she also supports legislation that would prevent investors from buying up large numbers of rental properties and to stop corporate landlords from

colluding to raise rental prices. economic agenda also includes plans to restore and expand the child tech credit in order to provide much-needed tax relief for families. she seeks to do the same with the earned income tax credit to help individuals and couples with lower income jobs who don't have kids. which is in contrast to trump signature first-term tax cuts which help the wealthy more than anybody else. harris' economic plan includes an effort to relieve americans of the high cost of health care . she seeks to build on some of the biden administration's achievements including capping cost of insulin at $35, not just for seniors on medicare but for everyone. she says she will allow medicare to accelerate the schedule with which it can negotiate drug prices in order to bring down the cost of her prescription drugs sooner. harris also vows to work with states to help millions of americans cancel their medical debt, which can lead some people to bankruptcy simply because they have the misfortune of getting sick. this is a far cry from the

health-related policy priorities in here, and project 2025 which is much more interested in restricting access to medication abortion, stripping the cdc of power to offer the public warnings and guidance about health-related matters, the project 2025 could also lead to millions of americans losing health care coverage altogether. the heritage foundation's radical manifesto includes proposal to impose a lifetime cap on medicaid benefits which by one estimate could result in an 18.5 million americans losing coverage. lots to unpack. joining me as independent senator from vermont bernie sanders, he is chair of the senate, health, -- midi. welcome, thank you for being with us again. >> my pleasure. >> last you and i talked was before kamala harris unveiled policies, and economic agenda. now we are seeing some of it. what sticks out to you the most? >> i think she's absolutely right to emphasize the housing

crisis in america. and frankly, we in congress have been behind the curve on this. all over the country, burlington, vermont, los angeles, california, people cannot afford housing, we've got 600 50,000 people who are homeless. you have large corporations buying up housing, jacking up rent. so the idea of constructing 3 million units in the next four years, of affordable housing, low income housing, and senior housing, absolutely a step in the right direction. or more, expanding on what the biden administration has done, in lowering the cost of prescription drugs is enormously important. we should not in america be paying in some cases 10 times more the same prescription drugs as canadians do or people in europe. so expanding the number of drugs that will be negotiated by medicare is an important

step forward. and i will tell you something else. as you remember, in the american rescue plan, we cut childhood poverty by 40%. by establishing a $300 per child tax credit. childhood poverty cut by 40%. it expired after one year. she wants to make that credit permanent. it will have a huge impact on working parents all over this country, exactly the right thing to do. >> project 2025, one of the things it does, is it could make the inequalities in health care worse because it is creating more obstacles for lower income americans to access health care. this isn't just bad policy. this wanders into the realm of cruelty. >> i can't hear. you're right, it does. look, as you and i discussed on many occasions, the united states is the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all

people as a human rights. and yet, we are spending twice as much per capita on health care. what the right-wing wants to do believe it or not, is make it harder for people to access health care rather than do what every other major country does, guarantee health care to all people. as a result of their policies we are talking about millions and millions of people losing health care that they have. >> senator, want to continue the conversation but i want to make sure everything is okay with your audio. we will take a quick break to pay the bills and after we do that, bernie sanders, independent senator from vermont will continue after the break. break. i told you not to get the other toilet paper. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! woooo! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort.

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pete g. writes, “my tween wants a new phone." "how do i not break the bank?" we gotcha, pete. xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. so you get high speeds for low prices. better than getting low speeds for high prices. -right, bruce? jealous? yeah, look at that. -honestly. someone get a helmet on this guy. get a free unlimited line for a year when you add one unlimited line. plus, get a new google pixel 9 on us. bring on the good stuff. back with me, bernie sanders, independent senator from vermont. one thing i thought interesting thematically all through the convention, where these discussions, sort of the pride

republicans were taking and capping of insulin for seniors, the co-pay on insulin, talking about spreading that to other drugs, discussions like that. obviously you and i have been talking about this a long time. it is a no-brainer but it is fun to see how much it is popularized. the idea of things that are in no way radical and no way socialist and the way communist. they are actually good for business, good for longevity, good for quality of life are being embraced by the mainstream within the democratic party. >> ali, if you don't tell anybody, let me tell you a secret. don't tell anybody, right? and that is, that is virtually all progressive ideas are enormously popular. may not be liked by the billionaire class or the corporate media, but they are enormously popular. for example, should we expand social security benefits by $2400 a year, by lifting the caps on taxable income so

billionaires pay their fair share, widely popular. 70% of american people support that. should we lower the cost of prescription drugs by half in america so they don't pay more than other countries, 70% of american people support that. should we expand medicare to cover dental, hearing and vision, over 70% of american people support that. should we raise minimum wage to a living wage, widespread support for that. so the big secret is, the stuff that we are fighting for, to give a break to the middle class and working families of this country, to try to take on massive income and wealth inequality, with three people or more -- have american society, all those are popular ideas. when she talks about prescription drugs and by the way, the biden administration, first administration really that had the guts to take on pharma and it is enormously popular. >> joe biden did say a couple of times we beat nick pharma.

i'm on his side, as i know you are but i'm not convinced it is done. in other words we have shown, we demonstrated what can be done and if you let the government, you let medicare negotiate prices like other governments do, which demonstrated what can be done, we have done it for the most popular and expensive drugs in america but in fact this can be done for all drugs. >> absolutely. look, as you may remember i made a trip from detroit into windsor, ontario. in fact we brought insulin 1/10 the price. it is true of many drugs. right now we are taking on nova, charging us for ozempic, by far, the highest prices in the world and if we don't get a handle of it it is going to bankrupt medicare. so you are right, we made a very good start. we've got a lot or work to do. >> senator, let me ask you about how you felt about the big tent nature of the

convention last week. there were republicans, border guards, there were progressive, progressive like you able to say things. while there is controversy about not letting a palestinian american speak you were among the handful of speakers who mentioned gaza and were met with applause. it did did demonstrate the idea that everybody doesn't have to be ideologically on the same page about everything to be part of a movement. >> look, ali, that is exactly right. i think there's widespread understanding in this country, whether you are honest conservative republican who doesn't want to see the cult of personality dominating america, doesn't want to see undermining of democracy in america or a progressive, as i am and others are, to come together with the immediate task of making certain that donald trump, the most dangerous candidate in the history of this country, somebody who lives outrageously every tingle day, somebody who actually wants to move this

country into an authoritarian society. we are all united in defeating him. the day after the election, there are going to be differences of opinion. i'm not a conservative republican but i think on this issue, i respect those conservative republicans who are standing up for democracy. so at the end of the day after kamala harris wins we have a real good debate, continue that debate about the direction of america. under a democratic society. so today we are all united to make sure that the trump is defeated and that is an earnestly important. i'm going to do everything that i can to see it happens. >> good to see you, thank you for joining us this money. independent senator bernie sanders of vermont, one of oakland's finest, even though he is representing vermont. a top official facing calls to be fired because she standing in the way of some tech millionaires making more money. they claim she stifling their business but in reality, she is doing her job. that is next. at is next.

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democrats left their convention of the united center in chicago feeling united. but as the harris/walz campaign takes fundraising money, a fissure is growing between party progressives and democrats riches donors over the future of lena kohn, head of federal trade commission. commissioner lena kohn is both widely revered and widely vilified for her aggressive stance on antitrust policy. government regulations that seek to root out monopolies in businesses and other anti- competitive practices. her approach has won her detractors and supporters across the isle. the congressional progressive caucus says she's their favorite guest speaker. j.d. vance it says khan is the best member of the biden administration.

she's use the full extent of the federal trade commission's authority and even gone beyond it and her commitment to investigating anticompetitive practices between large companies and corporate abuse of individual consumers. and she has had successes. in december of last year the ftc blocked a merger between about tech company and a cancer test maker. the agency argued the $7.1 billion acquisition would harm the cancer diagnostics industry. in 2022, the ftc got the fortnight video game studio epic games to pay half $1 billion in fines and refunds for violating children's privacy laws. and the federal trade commission prevented several mergers between amazon and the vacuum maker i robots, between -- and fellowship designer arm. both of which were abandoned after the ftc sued to block them, arguing they were too monopolistic and anti- competitive. but khan suffered setbacks. though she recently overturned -- let me forget about that for

a second. i want to talk about the chevron doctrine in a second. earlier this year khan attempted to ban noncompete agreements in a worker contracts arguing that based -- freely switching jobs thus depriving them of earning more wages. but just this week, a federal court in texas overturned the rule due to a lack of quote, substantive rulemaking authority. of that is because of the overturning of the chevron deference or the chevron doctrine that weakens the administrative state or bureaucracy and doesn't let agencies like the federal trade commission make the rules that they think are suitable. more recently when kamala harris ascended to the top of the democratic ticket in july the billionaires affected by policies other opportunity. for example, linkedin, the founder, a guy named reid hoffman, a democrat, donated $10 million to a democratic super pac and then went on cnn to lobby vice president harris to fire lena khan if harris

wins the presidency. hoffman has a stake in housing khan. he is a board number at microsoft which is currently blocked from acquiring an artificial intelligence company that was founded by reid hoffman. so some of the biggest public detractors are very folks that she's looking into. meanwhile some of her biggest fans within the democratic party are progressives like senator elizabeth warren and senator bernie sanders. should vice president listen to hoffman and the like and fire lena khan? harris could lose credibility with the progressive wing of the party if she does at. more, i am joined by a staff writer for the new yorker, former hedge fund analyst and author of the important book, black edge inside information dirty money and the quest to bring down the most wanted man on wall street. good to see you, thank you for being here. i don't know that i know of anybody whose name you can drop

in pleasant company and to get such strong reactions. lina khan gets strong reaction from everybody, good or bad. >> i think it is interesting that people are fixating on lina khan so much and not on jonathan cantor, who the biden administration put in charge of antitrust at the justice department and who is responsible for the recent court win involving google, which the doj sued several years ago, alleging antitrust violations. so it is interesting to me that people fixate on lina khan. i think we could analyze that in a number of ways but truthfully i had to chuckle when i saw reid hoffman and barry diller, and another -- that said harris, should she become a president should get rid of lina khan. it was a little bit saying the quiet part out loud, a little bit too much. it was sort of funny. but i think they are important lessons for the democratic party at this moment. and we don't know yet --.

>> she is a lightning rod for the super one-dimensional issue that we have cement -- as americans should be discussing what role that antitrust and anti-monopolistic role should play and what the role should face the government's role should be in it. >> it has been basically a dormant area of law and regulation for decades. it's been completely dead. part of the reason for that is because government regulatory agencies are scared of losing cases. and the only way you are going to change that dynamic is if i stop becoming scared of losing cases and they start to be willing to take risks and in some of those, yeah, they end up with court losses and it might be embarrassing but at least they took a shot and got people talking about it. and ultimately the biden administration feels monopolies undermine democracy. and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that is true. and it is important to remember

this, as we are at this critical moment, confronting a potential president who also wants to undermine democracy. >> so the interesting about this conversation which doesn't happen a lot in society, but should, is you and i are business reporters and we do think about this a fair amount. if this is one of the areas of the government didn't regulate, it would be out of control. companies would merge and merge and become bigger and bigger and you have one cable provider and one phone provider and one shop to buy your office supplies and one of everything or two of everything or three of everything but they would price collude. this is actually a remarkably important role for government, wherever you sit on the ideological spectrum. >> that is absolutely true and that has happened. there have been studies of different sectors across the economy, not just tag and there is a surprising amount of

monopolization. consumers don't necessarily realize it and the fact is that this lack of competitiveness in our capitalist system is bad. it is bad for businesses. it depresses wages. it contributes to income inequality. it reduces innovation. it reduces consumer choice. it makes it hard to start your own company. what is more american than that quite hanging up your own shingle and starting a business but you can't compete against or print giants. so i think that is sort of the message that democrats need to cease onto as they try to continue the good work that the biden administration has done in this area. >> one of the interesting things in the lina khan world is that they have taken on companies for doing things that aren't necessarily about the price consumers pay in the case of epic and the case of social media, to the point you made, they are taking on things that seem to be bad for the consumer

but are directly related to the monthly bill that you pay for something or the cost to a store. it goes almost beyond the economics. >> that is right. and kind of the old traditional antitrust world, there was this thing called the bork doctrine, which we can get into any great detail. basically it was based on an idea of antitrust that said there is only antitrust problem if prices are going up. so one of the tasks of the new regulatory regime, that is seeking to be more aggressive is to redefine that and to teach courts, teach judges, that is not the right way of looking at it. so many of the companies that have risen up out of the tech economy offer products for free. now we have learned the reason they are free is that they are collecting your data, they are making money off of you that way, so the free product is

this little cookie that they give you so that you will hand over all of your personal information and the fact is that the justice system has not caught up with this reality, and it is going to take some fearless litigating to teach them that things have changed. >> thank you for this. i appreciate having you on the show. up next, donald trump publicly vowing to protect the -- we are opening up project 2025 to chapter five, to see what also might happen with respect to immigration, should donald trump return to power. hi, i'm sally. i'm from phoenix, arizona. i'm a flight nurse on a helicopter that specializes in trauma. i've been doing flight nursing for 24 years. i had a fear that i wouldn't be able to keep up. i wanted all the boost i could get! i heard about prevagen from a friend. i read the clinical study on it and it had good reviews. i've been taking prevagen now for five years and it's really helped me stay sharp and present.

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immigration has been a political flashpoint for decades . one of the most complex issues our nation faces today as we try to grapple with all the geopolitical economic and social factors that play. for the last three elections donald trump has made billing icing immigrants central to his campaign message. his major promises on immigration are to build a wall and carry out the largest deportation operation into -- in the history of the country. it comes as no shock that project 2025's immigration policy also echoes trump's promises. the far right manifesto puts forth sealing the border and seeks to do so with military force. let's turn to page 166. chapter five.

it wants the department of defense to quote, assist in aggressively building the border wall system on america's southern boarder including using military personnel and hardware to prevent illegal crossings between ports of entry and channel all cross- border traffic to legal ports of entry. okay, but -- project 2025 goes much further than that. people can agree that you should be able to control your border but not only does project 2025 aim to close the border, and to militarize the border, it aims to use every lever of government, to detain undocumented people, going so far as to take funding and housing away from people associated with undocumented immigrants. look at this recommendation to the department of education on page 167. it wants the department of education to quote, denies loan assistance to those who are not u.s.

citizens or lawful permanent residence and to deny loan access to students at schools that provide in-state tuition to illegal aliens. we don't use that word, that is their language but let me tell you it is crazy. project 2025 wants to take away student loan eligibility for students with legal status or who might be american citizens, who simply attend a school that might confer financial and tuition benefits on undocumented immigrants. this more. project 2025 wants r u.s. citizens from qualifying for federal housing , if they live with anyone who's not a u.s. citizen or legal permanent resident. specifically calling out mixed status families. wants to force states to share driver's licenses and taxpayer identification information with federal authorities in order to find undocumented individuals and revoke funding to states

who don't comply. it wants to use data from fema, federal emergency management agency data to enforce immigration control. and think about that, you are undocumented immigrant and a hurricane comes your way and you go to fema to get temporary housing and then you get swept up into the federal immigration system. data supposed to be used for major disasters. it wants to bring back child and emily detention and increase the national capacity for those detention centers. i could go on but project 2025 doesn't just go after undocumented people or illegal immigration, it would actually even severely limit legal immigration which we know to be an imperative in this country. and economic imperative. it would effectively terminate the legal status of 500,000 dreamers . the percentage of americans who think dreamers should have legal status in this country is way above 80%. but project 2025 would take status away from dreamers. it would use the existing

backlog of cases to suspend most legal immigration. it would limit the number of h2 a and h2 b temporary worker visas that would cause critical gaps in the agricultural industry, construction industry, hospitality sector and for street. it would even reduce the number of h1b highly skilled worker visas. ask your doctor if you have a doctor not from america what kind of visa they are on. probably h1 b. it would significantly limit the number of t and u visas. they are visas given to victims of human trafficking, violence, and abuse. human trafficking, violence and abuse. we are targeting them, too. let's remember the context, trump and the republican party have for a decade now made the amorphous threat of immigrants as central rallying point. trump constantly accuses democrats of having reckless, dangerous open border policies which let in immigrants which

trump calls berman, who in trump's words poison the blood of our country. but remember donald trump loyalists in congress killed the modern era strongest effort at border control. project 2025's immigration proposals are not owing to fix anything at all. it is simply laying out plans to reduce legal and illegal pathways into the united states, to slow down our already backlogged immigration system, to weaponize every branch of the country -- government, to round up millions of people, some of who have been here for their lives and who we -- critical industries. let's be really clear. project 2025 immigration policies aren't even trying to fix anything. they break what is already a broken system by using tactics that are punctuated by cruelty. but that is the point.

when the rhetorical strategy of fear mongering of our broken system has worked for you, fixing the problem is not owing to be your objective, cruelty when it comes to immigration is the point. cruelty has always been the point. point. symptom relief at 4 weeks. many people were in remission at 12 weeks, 1 year, and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ abbvie could help you save. my name is brayden. i was five years old when i came to st. jude. i'll try and shorten down the story. so i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away. my mom, she was just crying. what they said, your son has brain cancer. it was your worst fear coming to life.

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coverage of project 2025 continues and will continue. i told you before the break about project 2025's cruelty forward plan to seal the southern boarder, to carry out mass deportation operations, to weaponize almost every branch of the government in order to do so. were on this, i'm joined by paolo ramos, a contributor and former deputy national director for 2016's -- hillary clinton's 2016 campaign. she is author of book rise of the far right and what it means for america. will have her back to talk about that specifically. but paula, my -- migration

whether it is forced or voluntary is the human condition. perhaps no greater description of what happens. we all know, and you know specifically because you spent time at the southern boarder, we know there is an issue. you know there's got to be a better way and some of that is on our side and some is on the border side. nothing in here solves literally anything going on. >> not at all. in fact it is not a policy proposal, there is no fact- based solutions. it is all based on this idea of what they have to do to date. is important to take a step back and understand who penned the immigration. let's go back to ken cuccinelli. you may remember, former trump administration official, top figure in the homeland security department. he's the person that generally believes in ending birthright citizenship. is also the person that in 2019 tried to literally rewrite the statue of liberty poem and i mention that because it goes to the heart of what we are seeing in those words. in 2019 he essentially inferred

these words, giving your poor and attired, that those words were specifically referring to european immigrants. to white people, people cut come to this country. they have privilege, access and money. not talking about black and brown immigrants and the man that penned immigration section is the one you mentioned push for the public --. prohibiting legal immigrants, not undocumented immigrants but legal immigrants from accessing public benefits like housing, basic health care. i say all this because to your point we're not talking about policy, we're talking about distorted vision of america that tries to do one thing and that is how we preserve the whiteness of this country. >> the whole thing started with -- didn't start obviously but as a relates to donald trump, mexicans in 2015 as being rapist. as berman, talks about people as placing the blood of our nation but also wanting more immigration from norway and

stuff like that. by the way there's no net immigration from norway to the united states. you're not getting immigrants from norway. at this concept that we are building a border and a protective force to protect the vermin who poison the blood of our country from coming in. >> exactly and project 2025 isn't just about building on the trump white house. i think it is also this idea that the last four years, trump -- they see in their faces, the humanitarian crisis. they have seen the great replacement theory going from a french theory to being normalized so project 2025 is in many ways manifestation of that deep xenophobia. of the most vulgar aspect of this anti-immigrant sentiment and we need to understand, what does that mean? if trump walks into the white house come january, i stick would have access everywhere across the country including schools and hospitals and churches, places deemed safe places. you would see local law

enforcement deputized to become like i stick agents. >> it is currently against the law. >> exactly, is against the law. wouldn't just be seeing deportation centers, literal tent cities that are just holding undocumented immigrants but children, which you pointed out and people have to hundred and, children would be held in these tent cities. to your point, dps would be/, working visas would be restricted to in their words the best and brightest. what does that mean? >> i don't know because there are undocumented people in the city who make our food. a bunch of undocumented people who make photos. undocumented people in every industry of the country. >> in their eyes, the best and brightest are european immigrants and we talk about the border it is not just the rise of trumps while it would be institutionalizing the remain in mexico policy, letting the asylum system and reframing what the american ibos as opposed to be about. >> there are fixes for the asylum system including our people in the system that can

evaluate asylum seekers, can process them. that is part of the problem, we don't have that happening. there are fixes used on this you have studied them. they are not in here. >> you do a great job of educating us. that, none of the day should that is based on back. it is all rooted in fear mongering. rooted in the idea that immigrants and migrant art criminals and this narrative that they are lazy. so you love facts and let's tell people the fact. immigrants are not criminals. according to stanford, u.s. native citizens are more likely to commit crimes. >> there's massive disincentive to commit crime if you are immigrants. it doesn't happen. >> immigrants are not lazy. they pay billions of dollars of taxes. you can go on and on but the point is that they are

explicitly trying to be cool. >> and unfortunately that is what it is but we need people to know this because if you cast your ballot a certain way, this is a 180 day implementation plan from january 20th, not long-term thinking about him aggression, a plan to deport people, create camps and do all the worst things we do. great to see you. we will see you, i have committed days i hope we are organizing you will be on here to talk more. paula ramos is award-winning journalist and msnbc contributor, author of book defectors, rise of the latino far right and what it means for america. another hour of velshi begins after this break . we will be right back. right back. get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you.

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