hey, everybody. it is 4:00 here in new york, i'm alicia melendez in for nicolle

wallace. with t minus 72 days until the election a tale of different campaigns is coming into razor sharp focus. on the one hand vice president kamala harris and governor tim walz riding high after last week's democratic national convention, poised to hit the ground running in the all important battleground state of georgia with a bus tour and a rally later this week. on the other hand you have the ex-president who after struggling to reclaim the spotlight last week as 26.2 million americans tuned into the democratic national convention spent the last 24 hours flip-flopping and second guessing whether he's going to show up to that debate with vice president harris in september on the 10th in philadelphia. last night he hinted that he was considering skipping the only debate the two campaigns to. posting a litany of grievances and complaints about the moderators of that debate, abc news, wondering aloud, quote, why would i do the debate

against kamala harris on that network? and attempt to go play the role of television producer himself telling everybody to, quote, stay tuned. then came news of an impasse between the two campaigns over ground rules, specifically over hot mics and, quote, whether the candidates' mike tones will be muted when it is not their turn to speak, a demand originally made by the biden team and agreed to by trump, except now that kamala harris is the nominee, quote, harris' campaign wants the microphones to be hot at all times as historically has been the case at presidential debates. and that seems to have sent donald trump into a tailspin. take a listen. >> do you still plan to participate in the abc debate? >> well, you know, i watched this weekend and it's the worst of all networks. when i looked at the hostility i said why am i doing it? let's do it with another network. i want to do t we're thinking about t we're thinking about t they also want to change the rules. you know, the deal was we keep the same rules. >> would you want the microphones muted in the debate whenever you are not speaking? >> we agreed to the same rules.

i don't know. doesn't matter to me. >> quote, doesn't matter to me, and yet maybe it does. just look at that time stamp, less than an hour after saying it doesn't matter to him whether they have hot mics or not, donald trump was belly aching about it again on truth social. for their part the harris campaign had this to say, quote, trump said unmuting the mics, quote, doesn't matter to me, but this resolve everything is all set for september 10th. that is where we start today with former senator and co-host of msnbc's how to win 2024 podcast claire mccaskill plus david jolly and with me at the table nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard and "new york times" editorial board member and msnbc political analyst mara gay. friends, what's happening here? vaughn hillyard? >> this is a moment where donald trump -- i recall being in green bay, wisconsin, earlier this year with him, he had a podium set um next to him on the stage

and said i will debate anytime, anywhere. of course, that was joe biden who he was running against at the time but this is a moment where donald trump is suddenly facing this candidate here who has raised a record amount of money in a short month, he has watched his polling numbers flip and suddenly for him there is a realization that who he would be debating with on that stage is not the same person. his campaign they want to stick to what won them that first debate but donald trump you heard him suggesting maybe he is fine with the mics open. this is a man running the donald trump campaign with two months left, you can bring on corey levandowski and build out an apparatus but last week on a campaign stage he said he is more focused on keeping democrats from cheating than the get out the vote operation. this is a manhole determine whether he wins the presidency or not and it is coming at a time where he's putting into question whether he's actually going to join the debate stage or not.

>> we will talk about the infrastructure and the money and the volunteers and the momentum because it is all happening all at once, david jolly. it was one thing to watch vice president harris prosecute the case against him on stage at the democratic national convention, it's going to be quite a different thing to watch her on stage with him prosecuting that same case. >> it will be interesting and that night all of a sudden the conventions will be a distant memory because campaigns are linear and they are there are inflection points and whatever happens at the debate should there be one that will become the latest defining moment and that is important for vice president harris. i mean, i think there is a baked in assumption that she's more nimble, smarter, more competent, understands policy better and, therefore, she can outbox donald trump on a stage, but donald trump doesn't play by traditional rules and so it may also be, you know, what presence does vice president harris bring to the stage? i think all indications are it will be a strong one and indeed she will look very strong

against donald trump. donald trump is wrestling with something that we rarely see, alicia, in a presidential campaign which is he's becoming oddly irrelevant to the story of this campaign. i know that's hard to say, still getting 45%, but there is nothing that he wakes up and does that changes people's mind and if anything he's like that person who always lies to you, who always says something else, as vaughan says, who is so erratic you don't know where he is day to day so you just ignore him. he has the enthusiasm of an aging cat at this point and in contrast vice president harris and governor walz coming off the convention not only have all the momentum from an incredibly successful convention but people across the country say, look, i don't want donald trump. i wasn't sure i wanted vice president harris but now i like where vice president harris is going and i want to go with her and the direction she's taking the country. vice president harris and governor walz have all the momentum right now, donald trump

has none of it. >> claire, let's talk about that momentum because sometimes it is hard to quantify what that actually means, i think money is one way of understanding that momentum. there was a memo release this had weekend the campaign saying they have raised more than $540 million that includes $82 million that came in during convention week what the hair russ campaign touted as the most ever for any presidential campaign in this time span. it's a tactical advantage, claire, it's also a psychological one. >> yeah, especially when you consider where that money is coming from. you know, one of my most interesting events at the convention was visiting with some big donors and do you know what they figured out, alicia? they figured out that they're becoming irrelevant. big donors are no longer essential to the harris/walz campaign. they are not going to spend time in venues trying to raise money from a bunch of folks who gathered a bunch of checks that have commas in them.

they are getting their money from folks who are gives $5, $10, $25. that's where this money is coming from. it is broad based. meanwhile, vance, if you look at his schedule, he is dominating his days with raising money. so they are not in the same position that harris/walz is in terms of this ground swell of volunteer support and monetary support, and maybe the best thing the internet has ever done for politics is maybe putting little money into politics is finally going to do a better job of taking big money out of politics which we would all like to see, especially after the citizens united decision. >> mar ration the senator led me exactly where i wanted to go which is if you drill down on that big number and look at where those donations were coming from, the campaign calls it unprecedented grassroots donation, one-third of the contributions were from first time contributors, about one fifth of whom were young voters. you've seen big numbers,

teachers, nurses, i think there's been this question of what the harris/walz coalition was going to look like. it would seem that those numbers are beginning to paint a picture. >> well, the other thing that we have to remember about small donations is if someone who wasn't en engaged in politics before has decided to donate to a political campaign they sure as heck are going to vote. it's really a strong indicator of enthusiasm, of turnout in an election in which it's really going to, i believe, depend on democratic turnout. if those numbers are high i think that ultimately vice president harris -- the other thing to remember here is that, you know, this is a campaign the harris/walz campaign, that i think is really captured energy that was already there among democrats who have been wanting to see someone at the top of the ticket fight and fight hard for democracy, for women's

reproductive rights, for the america that they believe in and that they want to see continue to become a multiracial democracy. so it's starting to look a lot like this is not only a presidential campaign, but is actually a pro-democracy movement. that's how it feels at these rallies, that's how it felt at the dnc. >> it's bigger than her. >> it's bigger than her, bigger than walz and that's the message. when you contrast that with donald trump, me, me, me, it looks even more distinct. >> i thought about that as harris was on stage at the convention because she employed this sort of story of self, story of us, story of now framework for her speech. i thought to myself donald trump could tell a story of self, he tells a story of self, all the time, loves to talk about himself. there is no story of us and there is no story of now. it is all a story about yesterday, right? so where does the trump campaign then go from here given the extent to which they have boxed themselves in and they are watching the momentum that is

bubbling up on the democratic side? >> i think that this is -- when you talk about how do you win elections and one person can say that they're boxed in, but you could also make the case that they are boxed in among the major demographic of the american electorate. 44% of the american electorate in 2020 were non-college educated white voters. and when you go out to rallies, including out in arizona on friday night, they packed in -- had morp people inside the exact same venue that the harris/walz campaign filled two weeks prior becauseks prior because they understand that if you can galvanize -- a coalition for the democrats is so key and important and while republicans and donald trump would like to pick off a few extra percentage points among black voters and latino voters, they understand at this point in time two months out for donald trump to win the campaign somebody who cannot have a broad message and somebody who is not going to have a moderating message they need to galvanize their major block and their major block are

those 44% of the american electorate who are non-college educated white voters who went in 2020 by two-thirds. so if you can go out there and this is where you see tim walz especially trying to make those inroads with, you know, sort of the crunchy midwest white voter, right? if they can make those inroads there that is where the donald trump campaign sees that they believe they have a path and at least they are within the margin of error in polling because if those voters come out like they did in 2020 when donald trump did get 81 million votes they believe they are in the ball game. >> we know that the campaign is already buying ads targeted at aapi voters, black voters, they just started a what's app channel for latino voters who want to stay engaged on the campaign and they want to bring republicans and former republicans into the fold. we saw that full display at the convention, the campaign says it was the, quote, most bipartisan national political event in recent american history. do you agree? >> i certainly do.

and with all due respect to those republican voices and they were very important, i think the most important voices for soft republicans across the country to hear were not from geoff duncan and olivia toy, it was the voices of chp and tim walz, you had a leading presidential nominee of the democratic party says we want republicans to be part of our coalition. the fact that the actual principals were also saying that made it far more than just currency or notional speeches by other jies republicans at the democratic convention. i think the opportunity here for harris is really remarkable because it's expanding the democratic party and those are two different organizations. vice president harris might be igniting and leading a movement, but the democratic party right now is not pushing back on their candidate or expanding their coalition. the democratic party is saying, come be a part of our

infrastructure as well. be a part of thetic party and i fully believe that when all the data comes in we will see new democratic registrations not just people polling saying i want to vote for harris/walz, but we're going to see new democratic registrations and an expanded democratic party. that is also, then, the corollary problem for donald trump. where does he expand his base? he does not. what he does is he plays the xenophobia card and makes it about harris and some very dangerous ways that feed on his culture war theories and frankly probably launches a willie horton type campaign going down the stretch because he's got nothing else. he has no ability to expand like vice president harris does. >> mara, i love the point that david is making. we talked about the passing of the torch generationally from biden to harris but it's bigger than that. it's not just from leader to leader who happened to be members of different american generations it's about the electorate itself, right? does the harris campaign engage

voters who have not traditionally been part of the process, and does that impact not just this election but elections to come? >> well, i want to talk more a moment about the opportunity that david just mentioned. interestingly enough, so i was in michigan last week on assignment for "the times" mostly in detroit and ann arbor, but donald trump was campaigning there, too, last week in howell michigan, the home of the michigan clan and used to be a sun downtown. of course, i don't believe that most residents now share those views, however, it was an interesting place to campaign because there's no expanding your base from howell, michigan, it's a small city of about 10,000 people. the fact that donald trump went there to meet was strategically of interest because it suggested that he doesn't really have anywhere to go, there is no coalition to build. when i talked to voters in that region, white voters, college educated and not, what they said to me is that's not really how we see ourselves anymore.

so tim walz is a better reflection they are telling me than donald trump. and so there is an opportunity there and i think that they did have also the whiff of desperation of donald trump not really knowing where else to go, how else to expand the base so you double down on what brought you to the party to begin with. that was an event that didn't even have -- it wasn't a large rally, you would think during the dnc he would have wanted to show a crowd. it was a very odd positioning and i have to say that it's just another sign that he doesn't -- he only knows one card to play. this is the only note that donald trump knows how to sound and, you know, the harris/walz campaign, the bigger that democratic coalition gets, the clearer it is there's room at the table for everybody and that's what harris and walz and other democratic surrogates were powerfully doing last week. they were saying, hey, come on in, the water is fine. >> which has implications, claire, not just for donald trump and for harris/walz, it

has implications for all of those races down ballot. >> oh, of course. but, you know, the senate races are holding strong, they really are, but make no mistake about it, this new enthusiasm, especially with younger voters, especially with voters of color, especially with latina voters that you see these numbers, that's where the biggest movement has occurred in terms of the polling, in favor of kamala harris. so that bodes very well for down-ballot races. you know, everybody is right, trump has no place to go and he's making some lame attempt to pretend like there's democrats that are supporting him and so far he's gotten the bear caucus guy that has a freezer full of road kill and now he's gotten putin's best friend tulsi gabbert who had abandoned the principles of the democratic party a long time ago.

i don't think there's going to be the kind of outpouring, especially people who have worked with -- i mean, when you have stephanie grisham who had been at mar-a-lago for family holidays time after time after time explaining to everyone that donald trump calls his supporters basement dwellers, trust me, donald trump is not going to get that from any democrat. >> vaughn hillyard, let's talk about the ratings from last week's convention, the dnc beat the rnc's ratings all four nights. a bigger audience than trump's. is that in his space as he's thinking about whether or not he wants to debate her? >> yes. absolutely. >> in a word. >> there's somebody new. there's somebody new. there's somebody fresh that the american public and electorate is interested in listening to. they've been hearing donald trump. some of them may like t they've been listening to him, though, since 2015. kamala harris is somebody who is now coming in a prime time role to the table who has different

ideas, you know, different lived experience and different bio and she has a running mate who is really not known at all across this country here. so right now if you go on the debate stage you have somebody here who is not only introducing new policies and ideas, but also a new biography that is going to resonate frankly with a broader swath of the country than that of donald trump. >> vaughn hillyard, always such a treat to have you with us in studio. thank you for being here. david jolly, as always thank you for getting us started. claire and mara are sticking around. when we come back one of the democratic party's rising stars is going to join fresh off her national appearance in chicago. why she has become a leading voice in highlighting how very different kamala harris is from her republican rival. plus would you trust these guys? j.d. vance promises that if elected the trump administration would veto any nationwide abortion ban. look at the record to see if that should be believed.

and later in the show looking to build on their convention momentum. kamala harris and tim walz are heading out on a bus tour this week in the now very much in play state of georgia. we're going to preview their grass rounds push in that battleground. much more "deadline: white house" continues after this. grod much more "deadline: white house" continues after this. molly leaving was one thing. but then i thought mom's weak bones might keep us stuck on the couch. no way. (♪♪) if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and are at high risk for fracture, you can do more than just slow bone loss. you can build new bone in just 12 months with evenity®. evenity® is proven to reduce spine fracture risk by 73%. i heard her say the evenity® she's taking builds new bone. builds new bone!

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it's funny, it's just not constructive. we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45. sure. can i tell you something? i hate this calendar. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com crockett. when i first got to congress, i wasn't sure i made the right decision. as i approached vice president harris for our official photo, she turned to me and asked, what's wrong? i immediately began crying.

the most powerful woman in the world wiped my tears and listened. >> let's bring in democratic congresswoman jasmine crockett of texas. claire and mara are also back with us. congresswoman good to see you. that moment from your speech when you talked about the authenticity and humanity of kamala harris, you said she is the only candidate in this race capable of empathy. how do you help voters understand something that doug emhoff said in his speech which is her empathy is her strength? >> yeah, i think that i am kind of the outward expression of that, right? because she doesn't just use it to guide her when it comes to the legislative results that she's seeking, she also uses it to empower others. i truly was like a fish out of water when i first got to congress and i really had more

questions than answers and, you know, when people talk to me about that speech they're like we saw a side of you that we've never seen. most people had not seen that side of me and it was the side of me that actually had questions and was doubtful, but i can tell you without any question or any uncertainty that she has had that type of empathetic leadership that has empowered so many other leaders beyond just myself. >> congresswoman veteran political reporter jonathan martin said of your gop colleagues on the hill, let's be brutally honest if you took a survey of the republican conference on capitol hill to say would you prefer rf donald trump to play golf and have thinks campaign drive the message or donald trump do events we all know which they would prefer. is he right? >> absolutely. let me go play golf. every time he opens his mouth the truth comes out and the truth is not a pretty thing.

the truth is tied to the agenda of project 2025. the truth is tied to his history as it relates to discriminating against people of color, when it came to housing or when it came down to how he wanted the central park five hung. the truth only hurts him. so, yeah, they want him to shut up and allow them to kind of continue on so that they can continue to deceive people into believing that these two candidates both have something wonderful to offer this country when we know that there's only one candidate that is qualified and only one candidate that is interested in moving our country forward instead of moving us back to the jim crow era of the 1950s and '60s. >> mara, we talked about money, we talked about volunteers, all part of the momentum and the enthusiasm. what are the other differences in infrastructure is the fact that the harris campaign has so many surrogates like congresswoman crockett across this country that they can

deploy to share the message even when the vice president can't be there herself. >> yeah, well, the democrats have a deep bench. we actually -- i think the country first realized it after that disastrous debate that president joe biden had a couple months ago where they started to see all these democrats supporting him at the time saying, well, wait, wait a second, you know, there is a lot of talent in the democratic party and so now we're seeing that deployed on the campaign trail. we even saw the generational i would say kind of array of talent, everyone from bill clinton kind of the elder statesman last week at the dnc down to much younger folks like congresswoman crockett. it's not just age, it's there is pretty much someone for everyone right now in the democratic party. you are a midwesterner, you have tim walz. you are from the south you have someone like ms. crockett. it's actually remarkable. there's also talent at the state level, we saw it also again at the roll call last week where, you know, the georgia state

democrats put up lil jon. i mean, there is a lot of talent right now in the party and there is a sense i think among some of the republicans of, hey, how come we can't do fun things? this looks fun. i think actually it was nicolle wallace who said a couple weeks ago at its best a convention is an invitation for voters to join, to join the fun, join the party. and i think that's what the democrats are doing, versus just kind of an angry, bitter, shouting match at the moment. >> senator, it's an invitation in the case of kamala harris, also a way to introduce her to voters who may not yet know enough about her, why someone like congresswoman crockett's story is so valuable, you see in focus groups, in polling, people say i like her, i want to know more, which is frustrating to some democrats because she has been on the national stage and had a robust portfolio for the past four years. the getting to know her has to happen quickly, senator, because, yes, election day is 70 something days away.

early voting starts in pennsylvania in about three weeks. so there are voters who are going to be casting their votes very, very soon, senator. >> yeah, no, this election is starting in about ten minutes and let me just say about jasmine crockett, you know, one of the "new york times" columnists and i quote said she lit the drapes on fire in her speech. and, you know, the other thing i think people need to realize that kamala harris is not afraid of lifting up people like jasmine crockett. donald trump doesn't want anybody to upstage him. donald trump is very worried about -- he wants people to look good and sit down. he doesn't want them ever to get between him and his adoring fans because it's all about him. it's not about lifting up others, it's not about mentoring people. you know, kamala harris stopped and asked about jasmine crockett because she cared and she sees jasmine crockett and dozens of others like her in congress as the future and she wants them to

succeed. so i just think it's terrific that she is doing that and showing america that's who she is. by the way, speaking of surrogates, what, you guys don't think kid rock is good enough? i can't figure that out. >> he is no lil jon. real quick, congresswoman, before i let you go, do you think donald trump shows up september 10th? >> no, but if he does show up he is about to get his butt handed to him. so i'm here for it either way. he can go and cower in a corner or he can show up and be lit on fire. either way i'm good. >> congresswoman jasmine crockett, i love watching shirley chris ol m right on your shoulder. when we come back elizabeth warren calls out j.d. vance on his quote, full commitment to vetoing a nationwide abortion ban should it get to the president's desk. that's just ahead. president's desk that's just ahead. over 400,000 people with afib have left

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how liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need. isn't that what you just did? service! ♪stand back i'm going to show ya,♪ ♪how doug and limu roll, yeah!♪ ♪♪ ♪you know you got to live it,♪ ♪♪ ♪if you want to win...♪ [bump] time out! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪ ♪liberty, liberty.♪ j.d. vance appears to be desperately trying to run far, far away from his unpopular stances on women's reproductive freedom. the embattled gop vice presidential nominee just yesterday saying that despite the many times he has said on tape that he would like to ban eye abortion nationwide, he said this to my colleague kristen welker on "meet the press." >> can you commit, senator, sitting right here with me today that if you and donald trump are

elected that you will not impose a federal ban on abortion. >> i can absolutely commit that is correct kristen, and donald trump has been as clear about that as possible. let the states figure out their own abortion policy. >> senator elizabeth warren react to go vance's comments making it very clear she was not buying vance's about face and that americans shouldn't, either. >> american women are not stupid and we are not going to trust the futures of our daughters and granddaughters to two men who have openly bragged about blocking access to abortion for women all across this country. look, right now where we are is if donald trump and j.d. vance take the white house, they can actually ban all access to abortion all across this country. and so for any woman who is in the middle of a miscarriage, who goes into an emergency room and discovers there's no medication and no treatment for her because abortion has been banned

nationwide, they can thank donald trump and j.d. vance. >> joining us now amanda zurawski she was lead plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the texas abortion ban and a reproductive rights advocate. amanda, one, do you believe j.d. vance? two, talk to us about the consequences of leaving abortion to the states. >> sure. thank you so much for having me. first and foremost, no, i don't believe j.d. vance and as senator warren said, women are not stupid in this country and i don't think anyone would believe him. you know, i don't believe anything trump says, he is a liar. i believe his actions and his actions have shown us that he is proud of overturning roe v. wade, which he has said over and over again, and the result of which landed me in the hospital two years ago to the day, two years ago today i was in the hospital fighting for my life after going septic twice because

of the abortion bans that are only possible because of a trump administration, and a second trump administration frankly would be a threat and a danger to women's lives, health and reproductive rights all across this country. >> claire, those are the stakes, amanda knows them better than anyone, she reminds us of them constantly. i want to take a listen to senator warren responding to j.d. vance trying to backtrack on his past comments on the come stock act specifically. take a listen. >> donald trump, j.d. vance have been asked about the come stock act. they both say we're not going to use that to try to ban abortion. sounds like you don't buy it. >> don't buy it? just read it. j.d. vance actually sent a letter last year to the department of justice saying enforce the come stock act. and remember he did that and then donald trump picked him to

be his vice president. take a look at project 2025. it lays out the roadmap for exactly how to do this. today 30% of all women live in states that effectively ban abortion. donald trump and j.d. vance and the white house it won't be 30%, it will be 100%. >> senator, has vance shifted his position or is it straight up lying? >> he's trying to shade t he's being slippery. i mean, this guy is something else, isn't he? i mean, ten minutes ago he was voting on the senate floor, refusing to protect contraception. he voted to refuse to protect birth control. donald trump brags about overturning roe v. wade. brags about it. he goes to the right wing women's group on abortion and says we're going to do great work next term.

so, listen, i don't think we should believe donald trump, if anybody has paid any attention they know he lies like either people brush their teeth. he only does what he thinks will get him another vote because he cares about himself he doesn't care about the women of america. let's just underline something. nothing they're saying would have helped amanda. nothing. nothing they're saying would help the 12-year-old girl that turns up pregnant in missouri because her uncle has been raping her for 18 months. nothing helps her. she's required to give birth in missouri by the government. so we've got bans -- the idea they're saying, oh, just let the states decide like somehow that is a warm fuzzy blanket. that is scary. they are going into states where there is not total bans trying to get total bans as we speak. so i really -- this is really just a bridge too far and i agree with both amanda and elizabeth warren, women of

america are not that stupid. >> especially because i think the one thing that we know is true, mara, in this like web and sea of lies that they are trying to spin is they now realize they have a political problem. >> well, they have a political problem but it's not just a question of a policy shift, the thing that they can't change is donald trump has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women, civil courts have found that to be credible, of course. j.d. vance is someone who has said that people who have children should have more votes. he's disparaged, quote, childless cat ladies, unquote. so it's clear that neither of these men have any respect for women as full citizens or full human beings. women know that. it's not difficult. and of course this is obviously just ahead of election this is about a softening but women remember that it was donald trump who single-handedly overturned roe v. wade. i also think it's an important moment because we can have a short memory in politics, especially american politics,

you know, to go back to 2016 before donald trump was elected, we never thought we would have seen an attempted coup. we never thought we would have seen a president who lied through his teeth half the things he says, who overturned roe v. wade. it was so much worse than we could have possibly imagined, a million americans plus dead from covid because of his mismanagement. think about how bad it is and then remember with donald trump it is always worse in ways that are in a moment unimaginable and become horrific before our very eyes. also i just -- this argument let the states decide, as a black american i can't tell you how ridiculous and offensive that is. you look at folks like amanda, again, you know, wide swaths of this country, women have lost access to reproductive freedom. you know, it offends me, it actually harms my rights and my freedoms as an american that they are denied theirs. so that is not okay to just say, oh, well, we are just going to accept a third of the country

not having full citizenship. no thank you. that reminds me of jim crow, it's going to remind american voters of jim crow and, do you know what, women know. it doesn't take a political analyst to tell them exactly who is responsible for them losing their reproductive and health carefree doms. >> amanda, i realize that all of us keep talking about this this in the context of women. i thought it was extremely powerful that you were on the convention stage with your husband because this is also an issue that affects men and they have to be brought into this conversation as partners, as voters, as americans and you've clearly thought a lot about this, especially as you have had these conversations inside your own home. how do you bring men to the table on this issue really understanding the threat that this is to the women they love and to their families? >> i think by talking about it and that's exactly what my husband josh does all the time. i was so proud of him at the dnc

and i think he did a wonderful job and i think, you know, he was one of many men who were talking about this on the main stage at the dnc. it's clear that this is a major issue, it's the key issue in this election, not just for women, but also for men. for families. and i think by continuing to talk about it in our own communities and our own homes, men and women alike, is what's going to encourage additional folks to come out and talk about it in their communities. i think we saw that happen across the country starting with women and men are joining the fight now, too, as they say this isn't just a women's rights issue, this is about families and this is about human rights and everyone in america should care about those and should fight for them. >> amanda zurawski, i'm always grateful to have you on the program, especially grateful that you chose to join us today. thank you so much for being with us. more from j.d. vance on leaving the door open to returning to one of the darkest chapters of the first trump administration, that story is

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>> okay. >> zero tolerance policy during the trump administration and that led to less family separation than under kamala harris' border policies. that's what's so striking about this. actually enforcing our boarder is the most humane thing for children and certainly for american citizens. >> but i don't hear you denying that families will be separated. >> wrong. wrong. it's all wroong. republicans don't have to control the presidency to work to keep families apart. earlier today nbc news reporting that a group of undocumented immigrants and their families are seek to go intervene in a lawsuit filed by 16 gop state attorneys general. these republican ags are seeking to block a program to allow undocumented immigrants who are the spouses of u.s. citizens to, you know, stay with their families while working towards green cards and citizenship. we are back with claire and mara. claire, what i think is frustrating to those of us who follow the news, who have read project 2025, who have listened to donald trump in his own words is he has promised this. he has promised to deport immigrants on the interior of

this country, some of whom have been here their entire lives, some of whom have built families and businesses so they want to say that and stir up their base and then when welker asked about whether or not they're going to separate families, i don't know what you're talking about. maybe a handful here and there. no, you've made a promise that this will be millions of people inside this country. >> yeah. they actually had signs they held up at the republican national convention. >> yes. >> mass deportation. i mean, it's -- and, by the way, he's just making that stuff up that somehow the current policies separate more families than they did under the trump administration. i don't recall seeing screaming children being ripped from their mother's arms at the border under the biden/harris administration. the reason is it didn't happen. so -- and the other thing which

i think we sometimes forget to talk about is what this does to families across america. there are families across america right now where people are working in good faith to get a green card, to get their citizenship, they've been in this country for years, they have children in school, they have good jobs, they're paying their taxes, they're participating at their church and in their neighborhood, they're doing everything america would want of them and what this does when you have promises of mass deportation, we had a republican in missouri who said he was going to shoot them all in a political ad, said he was going to kill immigrants that were here illegally. what that does to their quality of life, it's just cruel. it is -- the anxiety and the tension that creates tension tht creates within their families and in their lives is untenable. yes, we have to control the border. and if trump really wanted to control the border he would have gotten the most extensive border bill that had ever been

negotiated in my lifetime, that would have added more resources, it would have stopped fentanyl, it would have drastically cut down on asylum claims. but he didn't care about that because he thought it wasn't going to help his campaign. so give me a break. lay off hurting families and giving them this this kind of stress. >> here's the thing, mara, just to connect some dots, is they talk constantly about being pro family and yet they didn't want to expand the child tax credit that lifted lots of children and lots of families out of poverty. they don't want to protect ivf services in this country. and they don't want to keep american families together in the form of parole in place. what then does it mean to them to be pro family? >> well, you saw this last week when you saw women who had had miscarriages in states that had banned abortion, who nearly died and have recounted their stories very bravely in the months and years since, saying without health care, without accessing the abortion services that i

needed when i had a miscarriage i would not be able to get pregnant again. and so you know, we actually saw one of -- someone from the texas delegation was there at the dnc last week pregnant because she had gotten access to those services. so this isn't about a pro-family agenda. this is about cruelty and about xenophobia and racism. >> claire, mara, thank you both so much for spending the hour with us. always great to see you. up next, special counsel jack smith taking his fight to an appeals court to revive the trump classified documents case. don't go anywhere. case. don't go anywhere. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business.

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special counsel jack smith today has filed a brief in his appeal of judge aileen cannon's dismissal of the classified documents case. she ruled last month that he was unlawfully appointed as special counsel. today's filing pushes back. quote, judge cannon's contrary view conflicts with an otherwise unbroken course of decisions including by the supreme court that the attorney general has such authority. it is at odds with widespread and long-standing appointment practices in the department of justice and across the government. meanwhile, in the federal january 6th case smith is reportedly leaning against requesting a courtroom hearing to settle the issue of what in the case is covered under the supreme court's definition of presidential immunity. that's according to reporting from bloomberg and the "new york times." both parties have a joint status report due to judge tanya chutkan on friday that will lay out how they want to proceed.

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focused on georgia they got new energy when the vice president took over. senator warnock, as you know, gave an incredible speech at the convention. and senator ossoff is there as well as lucy mcbeth and a bunch of other folks. we really think we have a chance to win georgia and they're going to compete there in a very hard way and we're going to make donald trump defend every ounce

of ground in america. >> hi there, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace and let's just say georgia is on their mind. the harris-walz campaign making it clear that they are fired up, ready to recapture georgia's electoral votes just like president biden did in 2020. when he turned the state blue for the first time in nearly 30 years. the battleground state of georgia will be the first stop for vice president harris and her running mate tim walz following last week's blockbuster democratic national convention. on wednesday the two will kick off a bus tour in south georgia. the campaign noting, quote, this part of the peach state represents the diverse coalition that makes up the harris-walz coalition including rural, suburban and urban georgians with a large proportion of black voters and working-class families. this visit to georgia marks harris's second visit to the state since launching her campaign just a month ago. she will hold a solo rally in savannah thursday night following that bus tour.

meanwhile, we know georgia, very important to her opponent donald trump, when he lost the state in 2020 he tried to strongarm edit have of state brad raffensperger into finding just the right amount of votes he needed to win. but this time around democrats are having to fight even harder. as republicans in georgia are trying to rig the system in their favor. three republicans on the state's election board have been attempting to change voting rules just months before early voting begins. their approval of a new rule that would make it easier to delay the certification of election results. their attempts so brazen the governor is now asking the attorney general for guidance on whether he has the authority to remove members of the board. that's according to reporting by our friend at the "atlanta journal-constitution," greg bluestein. these dangerous efforts underscoring the need for democrats to rally georgians and protect american democracy. a message we heard from senator raphael warnock at the dnc. >> behind the big lie was an

even bigger lie. it is the lie that this increasingly diverse american electorate does not get to determine the future of the country. the lie and the logic of january 6th is a sickness. is a kind of cancer that then metastasized into dozens of voter suppression laws all across our country. and we must be vigilant tonight because these anti-democratic forces are at work right now in georgia and all across our country and the question is who will heal the land? and so here we are, america. are you ready? [ cheers ] >> and that is where we start this hour, with co-founder of

black voters matter fund latasha brown. plus political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution" and msnbc political contributor greg blue zine. and political strategist and msnbc senior analyst matt dowd. la tasha, what do you think, will we see georgia turn blue again? >> i certainly think that the momentum is here, the energy is here. i do think that georgia represents a new south. it represents new voters, young voters and a broad-based multiracial, multigenerational coalition. and it seems like that's the group of voters that are going to make a difference this election cycle and that are excited about the top of the ticket for the democrats. i do think that the challenge, though, what we know is where there's progress there's always backlash. and so what we're seeing is we're actually seeing an effort i believe under those that are in power in the state to really try to change -- if you can't affect by bringing more voters, having a platform that is creative enough to bring more voters to their party, instead what they're going to do is really try to do three things. disenfranchise, disrupt and

disqualify the vote. so that's why we're seeing these laws that are dealing with certification and certification of the result. >> greg, let's take this in two parts as latosha just laid it out. how are dems feeling good georgia at the moment? last month you said they were no longer despondent about their chances with harris at the top of the ticket. what are you hearing from them now? >> well, they're exuberant. and one reason is why this bus tour. look, it's one thing for the vice president to make georgia a priority so close to the convention. it's another thing where she's going. most democratic presidential contenders hardly leave metro atlanta. she'll be going to places in south georgia including in savannah, georgia where democratic presidential candidates almost never go. and that's to drive home a point to republicans. look, in some of these counties republicans were expected to drive up the margins and win by a huge amount. she's hoping to cut those margins enough so that metro atlanta, if there's a big victory there, it helps float her and carry her throughout the rest of the state. >> greg, i invoked you in my introduction to this story.

talk about your reporting. what's been happening with republicans on the georgia state election board? >> yeah, there's a five-member state election board that just had one member leave who was more mainstream and was replaced by a maga republican. since then there's been a number of rules changes that even some mainstream republicans are opposing. even governor kemp's top adviser today expressed some caution about those changes. and the governor is asking the attorney general to weigh in on whether he has the authority, the legal authority to remove some of these members including one who may have a conflict of interest because he has openly sought a job with the trump administration if trump wins in november. >> one of the reasons, matt dowd, i wanted to make sure we began the show with georgia is that i think it lays out so many dynamics we're going to see nationally with this race. yes, there's incredible enthusiasm for the democratic ticket in georgia. they are making a historic investment in the state. they believe it is on their map and they need to win it. and at the same time because all of those things are true you

have republicans trying to rejigger the rules so that if they can't beat them at the ballot box then they will beat them with laws that have been bent in their favor. this is happening in georgia. but it is really a window to what is happening all across this country, matt dowd. >> yeah. and i think georgia's proven -- one of the things democrats have to do is vote in numbers, such numbers that the finagling of the rules won't have an impact on this. to me georgia's such a great window into this election because one, we've seen democrats win there, two united states senators and joe biden. we've also seen people like marjorie taylor grooin, who is the magaest of maga folks, is a congressperson from there. and it's interesting to me georgia is where more republicans have stood up to donald trump than anywhere else. the secretary of state brad raffensperger, former lieutenant governor who spoke at the democratic convention who's a republican endorsed the vice

president. and the governor of the state has stood up to trump, who's had an on again/off again relationship with him. so to me georgia, i mean, i think it's really smart of the harris-walz campaign to target it in this way. i think it's very smart to go outside of the atlanta metro area in this. but georgia is one of the states in the south that not only are the democrats riled up to vote trump out but there is a republican contingent in georgia as evidenced by the elected officials that have stood up to trump and succeeded. >> latosha, i saw a head nod. that means you believe the same is true. let's listen to some of the sound from geoff duncan at the democratic national convention, and then you and i will talk about it on the other side. >> i realized donald trump was willing to lie, cheat and steal to try to overturn the 2020 election. i realized trump was a direct threat to democracy. and his actions disqualified him from ever, ever, ever stepping

foot into the oval office again. let me be clear to my republican friends at home watching. if you vote for kamala harris in 2024, you're not a democrat. you're a patriot. [ cheers and applause ] >> lastosha, i wonder how that changes your outreach efforts. >> i think that's a strong statement. i think what that says is the party, the republican party is fractured. in many ways i do think that it can create a certain level of desperation that will actually increase the disinformation and misinformation that is going toward certain communities. so on one hand i'm actually very happy that he's taken that position. i think that was a powerful statement. i also think that it can breed a certain level of desperation on those bad actors within the republican party that want to see a different outcome. and we've seen that when the president in this state has asked to find 11,000 votes. he walked up against a wall but there have been legislative

administrative pieces put in place to marshalize the vote and change the outcome. >> greg, help me understand the dine plik. there have been some changes in the relationship between trump and kemp recently. would you say that the hatchet has been buried? >> probably not. we've seen this cycle play out over and over again. and when i spoke to a number of senior republicans the other day when donald trump kind of out of the blue said thank you, governor kemp, for reuniting with me, most of them used the same phrase, which is house of cards. they feared any moment, any tweet, any public statement donald trump could go once again attack governor brian kemp. and that's what we saw earlier this month when w. his rally in atlanta. there seemed to be nothing to set him off, nothing toyingnight that, but out of the blue there was a series of tweets and a ten-minute tirade on the stage in atlanta when everyone in the audience, all the republicans in the audience thought he'd focus on the economy or immigration. instead he devoted a big chunk

of his speech to attacking georgia's republican governor. >> matt, that was a hardy laugh from you. i assume you have something you want to say? >> the only way donald trump buries a hatchet is if it's in the back of an opponent. that's the only way he buries one. i think it's important for people to realize governor kemp is far, far more popular than donald trump is in georgia and governor kemp after donald trump went after his wife in the course they've don't think governor kemp is going to be working the weekends overtime in order to make sure donald trump is elected. he might say he's growing to vote for him but he ain't going to stretch his muscles to get it done. >> latosha, there's been a lot of talk about what a harris coalition might look like. we know they are doing a massive ad buy for aapi voters. we know there are ads out there targeting black voters. we know they have set up a whatsapp channel for latino voters. they understand the voters they're going to need to bring in. and the messaging is going to be critical there. i want to play for you, this is a new ad from the harris-walz

campaign. it was released this weekend. it is part of an eight-figure ad buy targeting voters in swing states. let's watch. >> here's a few things i believe. middle-class believes like the one i grew up in, they want common sense solutions. you want lower prices and lower taxes. i believe you want to just not get by but you want to get ahead. we must create an opportunity economy where everyone has a chance to get a car loan, buy a home, start a business. but most of all, that instead of being focused on the politics of the past we need to be thinking about the future. i'm kamala harris, and i approve this message. >> latosha, your sense of how an ad like that lands in georgia. >> i think it's a brilliant ad. i think it does a number of things. i think that people are concerned about, as you're hearing, the economy is doing well, you know, the gdp and how well inflation is -- and employment rate, that doesn't necessarily resonate. what people are really concerned about is cost. and do i pay more money for a loaf of bread or for gas prices?

and so what people want are opportunities. so i do believe that that ad in particular will actually resonate with young voters and new voters to bring to the process and i think that's going to make a margin of difference. who is able to mobilize young voters. and young voters, i call them the janet jackson generation. they're the "what have you done for me lately" generation. they're going to be looking for how you can expand opportunities for them and their family. >> here's the thing, it's not a hyperpartisan message, right? an opportunity agenda. it's a pretty broad message, to your point, to the broad coalition she's going to need to reach. >> yeah. i think their messaging has been spot on in the course of this. and it's appealed to a broad coalition just like we talked about at the start of this, to folks -- voters in georgia in this. so she's going to keep doing that. she's actually -- her tone and her manner and her message are all in alignment. >> latosha, as you well know and i well know having previously done voter engagement work there is a tension in this work which

is you both need to know, let voters know that there are those who would seek to invalidate their vote, that there are these efforts under way that might make voting more difficult, and that their vote has never been more critical than ever before. you don't want to dissuade people from showing up, from coming to the polls, from standing in line. how do you do both in a state like georgia in this particular election right now? >> that's an excellent question. i see it as three phases. i call it the policy phase. one we have to recognize from now until november 5th it's very important for people to feel power. to work tapping into existing relationships and networks that are doing the work and activate them. that in the rural areas i think that's why it's brilliant they're traveling to rural areas, that you engage young voters, you engage the new georgians, what i've called the new south coalition. the second thing is i think you have to be prepared for november 6th, that what we see is

particularly when we're talking about the certification issue i don't take that lightly. i do believe that can be weaponized in such a way to actually stretch this out and create this cloud of suspicion around results of the election. and then the third thing is really help people to point them to the north star of the policy that they want. just as that ad did to talk about expansion of opportunities. we're not just voting to defeat trump but actually get something they want for them for their families. they want greater and expanded opportunities. so i think that that's what has to be laid out. i think the message matters because i think the message matters. yes, we are blocking because we've got to defeat and we've got to support democracy. but one, we've got to expand opportunities for people to actually do something better for themselves and their family. >> greg, sticking to policy, we heard mitch landrieu at the top mention a speech by georgia congresswoman lucy mcbeth. i want to talk about her and talk about it on the other side. >> our stories of loss.

but make no mistake. our losses do not weaken us. they strengthen our resolve. we will secure safer futures that we all deserve. we will organize. we will advocate. we will run for office! and we will join with americans from small towns and big cities to keep our communities safe. >> greg, you look at polling and ask people for their top issue and they're issues that may not make it into the top three and yet are still top of mind for voters as they go into the

voting booth, right? and so that speech, for example, it folds into this entire vision of pivoting from the past to the future, of imagining a world that is full of opportunity and safety for voters in georgia. how's that going to play? >> yeah, alicia, you're exactly right. polls in georgia will show immigration, economy, voting rights top three issues. guns don't usually come to the surface that high. but that was lucy mcbath talking about the tragic shooting death and murder of her son, her teenage son about a dozen years ago. and she proved in georgia that you can win a race in a very competitive suburban swing district by focusing on gun control. by focusing on measures that restrict access to firearms. she proved it about six or so years ago. and you can see her now giving that speech to the dnc, really solidifying that sea change in georgia that democrats can talk about things like that, that they once thought they could never talk about in a state like georgia.

democrats used to run as nra democrats. that's a thing of the past now. >> greg blue steen, latosha brown, i'm grateful for your time and i know we're going to be seeing a lot of both of you in these coming weeks. thank you so much for being with us. matt is sticking around. when we come back, 15 days until the scheduled september 10th debate between donald trump and the vice president, and it's still an open question if, you know, it will happen. we'll explain the latest fight over the terms of the debate. plus a former trump aide says, "i don't understand putin's hold on trump." and he paints a scathing portrait of the ex-president's handling of the country's national security. and later in the program an all hands on deck effort to prevent a wider war in the middle east after israel and hezbollah exchange heavy fire. we'll have a live report from the region. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues aft. don't go anywhere. ver is exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees. powers tractor supply stores nationwide

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even as donald trump calls into question whether or not he will even show up at all to debate kamala harris on september 10th, a fierce debate over the rules for the first face-off between the two candidates has spilled out into the open. the issue as reported in the last hour is whether or not the candidates' microphones would be muted when it was not their turn to speak. that was the rule agreed upon between the trump and biden campaign. but now the harris campaign says those rules won't work. they want the mics hot at all times. according to reporting in politico today, quote, privately the veep's team believes harris can get trump to lose his cool and say something impolitic on the mic. the ex-president told reporters the issue of the mics didn't matter to him taking to truth

social to complain. msnbc political analyst eugene daniels. matt dowd is back as well. eugene, you were the first to report on this issue. what is the latest in the debate over the mute button? >> yeah. what's interesting is at this point the harris campaign is taking donald trump at his word when he said that it doesn't matter to him, they should probably be on. they're being a little petty, michael tyler the communications director on air a little bit ago said we'll take him at his word unless his staff is in charge and it's not him, right? so needling him a little bit. and we know that's something that donald trump doesn't like. but what's really fascinating is we're even having this conversation because this is not the conversation that was being had before the cnn debate. you would think that at that point it was the biden folks who wanted the mics to be off, right? they wanted donald trump not to be able to interrupt president biden, et cetera. now the harris campaign, they're fine with the idea of donald

trump interrupting her. either just to show that he is interrupting and in their words not mind that they feel like he's unhinged. they want to show that. but also he's been apparently calling her names reportedly behind closed doors. maybe that will happen on stage. and these are the kinds of things that are in their head. and when you think about the debate in 2020 she had with then vice president mike pence her best moment, probably most memorable moment other than the fly on mike pence's head, was her "mr. vice president, i'm speaking." right? people still bring that up as an example of how she operates on stage and kind of in political life. and you know, what the trump folks had, i talked to them last night, what they said is we already agreed to what the cnn debate rules were. but for the harris folks that was -- you were talking to a different crew, right? that is a completely different campaign. that was not the campaign we had. and more importantly nothing is set in stone for folks who don't know how these negotiations go,

just because you agree to do a debate with nbc or abc that doesn't mean that all the little things are figured out. right? there's podium size and who the moderators are and all of that. and this is kind of the final thing that they're figuring out. it seems like it will get settled settled but we'll have to he soo i guess how donald trump feels about this at this point. >> and matt dowd, i want to be clear. i'm not talking about -- i didn't ask you to stick around and talk about this, talk about the odds, like are they going to do it, are they not going to do it. i actually think these debates carry enormous stakes. i think americans deserve to see their two candidates side by side sharing their very different visions of america, showing us how they comport themselves in their period in front of the cameras being forced to answer difficult questions. that's some of the job. and i actually think it's really important for americans to have the opportunity to watch them do

it because it's proof of concept, matt dowd. i get we're sitting here will they won't they but it's because to me at least these debates do matter and americans deserve to hear from both of these candidates. >> i totally agree. that's why we had a bipartisan debate commission for decades that settled these things so we wouldn't go off the deep end. but that has been thrown out the window. the debate commission no longer has any effect in this. now the two campaigns negotiate in this process. but it's the only way really in an unfiltered and a genuine way that voters can get the lens into candidates. it's the best and only way. not through television ads and really not through scripted events that are all stagecraft and all of that. i mean, maybe there's times there's an interview that's done off the cuff that you can get an insight into that. but the debates really are it. and the debates are where millions of people are going to tune in and watch and can have

tremendous effect. in my mind there are 70 days left in this campaign. and campaigns usually say i want to win a majority of those days and that's how we're going to win this election. this debate on september 10th, my guess is is worth 20 of those days. 20 of those 70 days is done on this one night for the power it can have on what the voters see. >> and not to be a broken record here. but while there's time between that debate and election day there's about six days between that debate and when early voting starts. to your point time begins to collapse for a lot of voters. eugene, vice president harris, she is an expert prosecutor, an expert interrogator. let's just listen to some sound of what it might be that donald trump knows he's up against. >> has the president or anyone at the white house ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? yes or no, please, sir.

>> the president or anybody else. >> it seems you'd remember something like that and be able to tell us. >> can you think of any laws that give the government the power to make decisions about the male body? >> i'm not -- i'm not thinking of any right now, senator. >> sir, i have just a few -- >> well, you let me qualify. i'm not able to be rushed this fast. it makes me nervous. >> i understand she will not be the moderator of this debate. and yet understanding who she is on stage with, there is no doubt that she would deploy some of those questions even if meant to be rhetorical and that there has to be some acknowledgment on the part of the trump campaign that that could be his undoing. >> yeah. i mean, this is something that they -- over the last what has it been just a month where she's been at the top of the ticket, they have struggled and donald trump especially has struggled to kind of define her and attack her in a way that doesn't turn off voters, right?

and putting him on that debate stage where he does have to tussle with someone who is going to be quicker on her feet, a lot quicker on her feet than president biden was and is, someone who is going to if the mics are unmuted, be able to go back and forth with him and tussle in real time and to check him in real time for all of the kinds of things that he likes to say, things that are often untrue. and so what you're seeing with the trump folks is that he is concerned about debating her. one, they seem to be worried about how he's going to co himself and what he's going to say to her and about her personally. but also what it's going to look like when a smart black woman goes against donald trump, who has often struggled to deal with strong women in general but specifically you think of the way he's interacted with our colleagues who were on the white house beat during the trump

years, the most kind of disgusting ire has come at black women, right? so those kinds of things are the reasons why trump allies and maybe not trump himself but trump allies and folks around hmm are worried about how it's going to happen on that debate stage. as you saw with jeff sessions, it can kind of throw people off, right? back and forth. those prosecutors, it can really throw folks off. he knows that. his campaign knows it. he doesn't really prepare himself in a debate the way that normal politicians do, where you stand on stage and somebody plays her. that may change. it seems like tulsy gabbard's going to be a part of that. maybe she will play vice president harris in the back and forth. but it's going to be tough for him. and i think he knows that and his campaign knows it as well. >> eugene, i really wish you could have seen matt dowd's face as you were describing what trump debate prep looked like, especially when you invoked tulsi gabbard potentially playing kamala harris.

because that is not matt dowd's debate prep. that is not what he had in mind. and this whole thing is so asymmetrical, matt dowd, that that's not surprising. >> you know, what's funny about this or interesting about this is this is a two-edged sword for donald trump because yes, there is big fear going up against somebody like the vice president but he actually has to because she has the momentum and there's very few ways for him to blunt the momentum. and my feeling about this is this is why it's so different than i think hillary clinton, because the vice president operates with such a joyful and laughter which you can see it unnerves donald trump, all the laughter. he keeps talking about that. donald trump knows how to handle people that come at him seriously or in a way, some meanness way. he has no idea how to handle people that operate and criticize him from a place of joy or from a place of humor. and that i think is a huge achilles tendon for donald trump. and tulsi gabbard in my view, if

she's the debate prep she's not a person that operates from a place of joy. so i don't know how she's playing the vice president. >> september 10th, we are keeping it on our calendars. eugene daniels, thank you for bringing us your reporting. matt, you are sticking with me. coming up for us, it is not just democrats who are alarmed by donald trump's fondness for dictators. especially vladimir putin. now his own former national security adviser saying he worries about that too. that story is next. loving parent. known for lessons that matter. known for being a free spirit. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer, fda-approved for 17 types of cancer. one of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene. keytruda can cause your immune system

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it is looking more and more like a classic case of a person assembling all the right evidence but coming to the wrong conclusion. you remember general h.r. mcmaster the trump national security adviser whose tenure lasted a little more than a year. now all this time later in the course of promoting his new book mcmaster has pulled back the curtain on what his old boss was really like in the course of his national security responsibilities. first, mcmaster describes the ex-president's impressionable nature, something he expanded upon this morning. >> the story in the book is in large measure about how our team worked together to help him make the best decisions. and what he would do is evolve his understanding over time, and at times make really tough decisions. but also the story in the book is how difficult it was for him at times to keep that decision, in part because people know how to kind of push his buttons. this will make you look weak to your political base. this will -- you know, so i think that in writing the story

i'm hoping to -- if he's re-elected to inoculate him a little bit so that he's not that easy to manipulate. and to appeal to, you know, maybe some of his insecurities and some of his predilections. >> let me underline in bold something there. easy to manipulate. now, combine that observation with another. in 2018 shortly after russian agents poisoned a former russian military intelligence officer in england mcmaster walked into tr writing a flattering note to vladimir putin on the page of a newspaper detailing putin's praise of trump. trump asked mcmaster to deliver the note. when he got home that night, he confided in his wife, quote, after over a year in this job i cannot understand putin's hold on trump. so put those two observations together. a russian dictator with a hold on donald trump. a man entirely impressionable and prone to flattery.

but instead of concluding that trump is thus disqualified from being commander in chief mcmaster suggests trump just needs competent voices around him. joining us now, a member of the house armed services committee, former navy pilot congressman mikie sherrill of new jersey. madd r. matt dowd is back with us. congressman, first of all, your evaluation of h.r. mcmaster's conclusion there. >> well, first of all, that would presuppose trump would have competent people around him in a second term, which i don't think anyone believes. i mean, look at his vice presidential pick. i think that's been a true failure to date. and then it also suggests that somehow having competent people around him helped him get to good decisions. and i certainly did not see any sign of that while i served, when he was in office. in fact, i remember going to the situation room to question the administration about the rumors we were hearing about russian

bounties being placed on soldiers' heads in afghanistan, and the response we got was the reason there was no response from the president on that is he hadn't read his briefing materials. o'so i just -- i don't think the conclusion is correct. i certainly don't think the aselesment of the problem even goes far enough. >> and the love letter to putin on the newspaper, what do you make of that? >> i think we have seen again and again and again that trump idolizes dictators and autocrats and strongmen. it's not just putin. i think he spoke admiringly of president for life xi of china, has made some nods towards the dictator of north korea. these are the type of people he admires. i've never seen a president of the united states speak so disparagingly about the united states and our values and so admiringly of our adversaries across the world.

>> of course, congressman, a primary takeaway of this convention was the way that democrats appeared to have wrestled the party of national security mantle away from republicans. take a listen to leon panetta, and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> kamala harris understands this moment. it is a moment of danger and a moment of opportunity. she'll keep america's military the strongest in the world, the strongest ever known. and she understands what our military is for. the role of our military is to defend us from foreign enemies. it is not to threaten americans. and it sure as hell isn't to put immigrants in camps. [ cheers and applause ] >> congresswoman, i want you to do the side by side for me as you see it, which is if you take

h.r. mcmaster at his word you have a former president who was impressionable, prone to flattery, under the grip of a russian dictator, and you have kamala harris, who wants to restore the global order. how do you make that argument to voters in this final stretch before the election? >> so i think what we saw at the convention was a really strong advocacy for the u.s. and our power abroad, meaning more ability to take care of people here at home. the better ability to fight for our economy globally will result in better jobs and affordability here at home. and it's interesting because somebody said to me at the convention, you know, it's interesting, she's really pushing back against the politics of old. and i said back to this person, it doesn't feel that way to me. she is talking about the politics i grew up with.

she is talking about the strong defense of the constitution, this belief that our nation is better because we are a diverse nation, innovative nation, that we have the ability to create freedom and opportunity for so many various and different people and experiment really that hasn't been successful around the world in the way it has been successful here at home, and we are going to continue as democrats to fight for those beliefs and values. >> i take, matt dowd, congresswoman sherrill's point, which is perhaps it is not that democrats have changed their messaging or they're leaning into anything. perhaps the contrast is really about the extent to which republicans have absolutely conceded this terrain. >> well, donald trump has no interest in being any kind of strong person on the international platform and building any kind of coalition. as i listened to you talk to the congresswoman about this, i was thinking to myself, what is this

like for -- i mean, i was trying to think of an analogy. and you know what it's like? it's like if you came home and it's valentine's day the next day and your son or daughter who's in the second grade is filling out valentines and the only person people are giving valentines to are the bullies on the playground and you're like what are you doing? why aren't you giving it to x, y, and z, all of whom are good people and contribute and do all this and help the class and all this, why are you only giving them to the bullies on the playground? well, it's because people fear them. and that's what donald trump -- the only thing donald trump respects is some kind of level of autocracy where people fear you, where not because you love the constitution or not because you love democracy or not because you love being part of a coalition that lifts everyone up. it's that he no matter what the person is, whether north korea, hungary, or russia or china, he loves or he is entranced by people that instill fear in others and that's what he

attracts to himself. >> congresswoman, i am the mother of a second-grader so that analogy really lands with me but i also want to talk about the future should there be a second trump term, specifically the people he might elevate to key positions. "the atlantic" just this morning they've got a new piece on kash patel, a presence as you know late in trump's first term who stands to play a major role in a second term. quote, patel appeared singularly focused on pleasing trump. even in an administration full of loyalists patel was exceptional in his devotion. this was what seemed to disturb many of his colleagues the most. patel was dangerous, several of them told me, not because of a certain plan he would be poised to carry out if given control, the cia or fbi, but because he appeared to have no plan at all. his priorities today, always subject to a mercurial president's wishes tomorrow. patel disputes this characterization. what wouldn't a person like that do if asked? how dangerous, congresswoman, is that as described for someone like that to be in charge of agencies like the cia, like the

fbi? >> well, to torture this metaphor as a mom myself a little further, it's not just as if trump's giving valentines to bullies on the playground. it's as if he's the principal of the school and directing this behavior across the board. and so to have people like patel in the administration who know that the way to success in this type of administration is simply to agree to whatever idea that the president has, the crazier, the more extreme, the more quite frankly anti-democracy and american the better, to at every turn meet the president where he's at and suggest that whatever he's doing is brilliant when we know again and again and again trump has been somebody who has tried to tear down our values, has tried to really stand and stay in office despite a democratic election, and the republicans have never held him accountable for january 6th, nor

have they held themselves accountable. so yes, i think that would be an incredibly dangerous administration to see in office ever again. >> quite to the contrary, he's holding a party to celebrate those folks. congresswoman mikie sherrill, thank you so much for being with us. matt dowd, thank you so much for being with us throughout the hour. we'll be right back after a quick break. ter a quick break. ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right.

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israeli officials say they launched the strikes after detecting plans for a large-scale attack by the iranian-backed militant group hezbollah. in response hezbollah aimed hundreds of missiles and drones at israel, claiming it was revenge for the assassination of one of their senior commanders last month. the exchange of fire is the largest between hezbollah and israel in the ten months since the attacks on october 7th sparked the war in gaza. meanwhile, high-level talks in cairo to negotiate a deal between israel and hamas for a cease-fire and the release of israeli hostages yet to result in an agreement. let's bring back in nbc news correspondent danielle hamajin. thank you so much. thank you for being with us, danielle. where do things stand today? >> well, the region is on edge, as youtoday? >> the region is on edge as you mentioned but there's a sigh of relief that it happened and it's over. they've been bracing for months for retaliation for as you

mentioned the assassination by israel of hezbollah commander in beirut last month. i mean it was all over by the time most people woke up yesterday by the time noon came around, whatever public restrictions had been announced in the morning were mostly lifted. the airport reopened within 90 minutes in the morning. but just to take you through the brief chronology of events this year. israel deploying about 100 israeli jets to bomb rockets in lebanon. hezbollah rejecting that version of events saying they managed to strike a number of military bases in northern israel. in fact, they were able to distract the iron dome and in doing so they were able to launch a drone deeper into israel. in fact, they were able to target a military site next to tel-a-viv. one that is known to the

military unit that was linked to the assassination. both sides claiming victory here and they both have to play to their domestic audiences. the head of hezbollah could not have let this go unanswered. it promised its supporters that it would punish israel and that's what it claims it did. it says mission complete, he said yesterday but that was only as well just the first phase. >> danielle hamangen for us in israel. a symbol of the confederate gone. replaced, we'll tell you all about it when we come back. (♪♪) (♪♪) you were made to chase your passions.

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to become a guardian of liberty today. just outside of atlanta over the weekend a statute honoring the late civil rights icon congressman john lewis was unveiled. the 12-foot bronze figure now stands in the very spot where a monument to the confederacy sat for 126 years before it was dismantled in june of 2020. lewis died that year after more than 4 decades representing georgia in the congress. he coordinated the student committee snik. two years later he was beaten by police while leading a march in selma alabama that later become known as bloody sunday. the prelude of the civil righting act of 1965. we'll take a quick break and be right back.

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thank you for letting us into your homes on this sunday. the beat starts right now. hi ari. >> welcome to the beat. and thanks to you for joining us to start a very big week. the first voting in key states begins in just 21 days. and the first harris-trump debate is scheduled for 15 days from now. tonight we will be looking down the road to these big campaign events. we also have professor dison and loch this hour. the new musical star d.j. cassidy will also join us by the end of the hour. so i invite you to get comfortable. we have a lot cooking for you. right now we