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powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. . hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. ten tuesdays, 70 days to a flashing red crossroads in our shared north american future. both presidential campaigns this afternoon on pace with what's going to be a dead sprint to election day. vice president kamala harris and her running mate tim walz at this hour preparing for what will be their ticket's first campaign stop since they formally accepted their party's nomination. a bus tour of georgia starting tomorrow. meanwhile with donald trump's running mate jd vance campaigning in michigan and indiana, that campaign is adding

new voices. an interesting voice. nbc news adviser confirming that both robert f. kennedy jr. and gabby is moving with trump. let's go to north carolina voters in ten days. four days after that, the first presidential debate between trump and harris, which now appears to be all systems go. at least right now, according to donald trump. disgraced ex-president a little more than an hour ago posting on social media that he would take part in the september 10th debate. with such precious little time left, both candidates are seeking to frame the race on their own terms. for democrats, that means getting back to basics. after the bright lights of last week's convention, team harris appears to be trading in glitz and glamour for nitty gritty in the form of a new focus on everyday issues, called kitchen table concerns. just today the campaign releasing a new ad on housing. take a look. >> most of my childhood we were

renters. my mother saved for well over a decade to buy a home. i was a teenager when that day finally came. and i can remember so well how excited she was. i know what homeownership means. and sadly right now it is out of reach for far too many american families. during the foreclosure crisis i tooblg on the big banks who exploited people in the housing market. and today corporate landlords buy hundreds of houses and apartments and turn them around and rent them out at extremely high prices. i will fight for a law that cracks down on these practices. we will end america's housing shortage by building 3 million new homes and rentals. we should be doing everything we can to make it more affordable to buy a home, not less. i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. >> expect much more of that in

the next ten weeks. an eternity in politics that will somehow pass in the blink of an eye. that is where we start today with activist and ceo of all in together, lauren leader, also with us democratic strategist and msnbc political analyst, basel smikle, "new york times" political reporter may yeah mia king. i wonder what you think that we finally have a debate? >> we finally have a debate. the issues raised in this first commercial, it will be really interesting. i have to talk about it from a policy standpoint. >> please, please. >> the fact that she focused on housing, where the wealth of so many americans is tied to their ability to own a home with equity in their home, i imagine a lot of undecided voters listening to some of the campaign folks, a lot, particularly in the african

american community, are listening on whether they can afford their first home. if you think about it, since 1940 -- just after 1940, during the new deal, 75% of the homes that were created were starter homes. right now it's 8%. so, that ability for young people, in particular for folks of color, for voters across the country to build that wealth and to be able to have that piece of the american pie has been so elusive. the fact she's starting from this position right now, and will be able to go to a debate and actually talk to donald trump and say, what have you actually done for the people that you think you serve or say that you serve, i think, is a great starting point. >> there's both the future looking, will i be able to afford a home? will i have a slice of what has been portrayed of the american dream? there's also the affordability crisis in this country and this sense of, does the person who's vying for office understand my life? do you understand how hard it is to house my family? and do you understand that that is a fundamental question of

safety and security. if i can't house my family, how am i supposed to feel safe and secure in this country i call home? >> and i think the two areas in which inflation has felt most personal for americans has been grocery prices and housing prices, right? and the combination of high interest rates and the low -- very low inventory we see across country has hit really critical quarters, young people, particularly, who don't see any path to an affordable lifestyle. many are still living with their parents years after graduating college. we know that's putting stress on the american families. and families with children who can't afford -- making these critical choices between housing and child care and all of these things that are so painfully difficult to access. so, it's a really smart strategy. i think there's going to be criticism that it's not -- doesn't go far enough, we need more. we could probably use 3 million units just in new york. it's a down payment in a sense,

but it's a good start. people are criticizing her for not having a clear policy. here it comes, a few days after the dnc and she was ready with it. >> the policy wo in. k she's running against. charlie sykes, we've seen a lot of flipping of the script in the last few weeks. you have the harris campaign telling nbc news that trump's multitrillion dollar agenda is, quote, a deficit bomb. how interesting to hear democrats wrangling that back for republicans, especially after the unmitigated spending we saw during the trump years. >> i think it's interesting they're leaning into issues that republicans thought that they were there, that they actually own. the fact is that donald trump is uninterested in being fiscally responsible. you saw that during his presidency. you see that in many proposals he's making. obviously, he wants to exploit the problems of inflation, but almost everything he's talking about doing would make it worse.

you know, mass deportations, taking away the independence of the fed, imposing massive new sales taxes in the form of tariffs on middle class families. i think it is important to lean in on all of this. and i think that the details -- look, i mean, i still have a lot of questions about the details of many of these proposals, but i think you're absolutely right. what she's doing is saying, listen, i know these are problems, i'm going to discuss them. one of the most important numbers you often see in politics is does this person care about the problems of people like me? and i think that's the heart of what she's doing right now. >> on housing specifically. the associated press made two interesting points that i want to underline. charlie sort of got to one of them first. although trump made his reputation as a real estate developer, data shows there was a shortage of available housing during his presidency that has continued. and this, trump has floated an array of ideas for lowering housing costs including his suggestion in a june speech in

wisconsin that stopping illegal immigration would reduce demand for housing and bring down prices. it's a classic case of perception versus reality. and i can only imagine that on the debate stage, come september 10th, you're going to see kamala harris try to force that contrast. >> and that's exactly it suspect it's sort of posing this contrast between her and former president trump. there are still some voters out there who have told me and others that they're undecided. they're not quite sure yet who they're wanting to support. and i think a lot of that is driven by the fact they just haven't yet been fully introduced to the vice president as a possible presidential candidate and as a potential president and lawmaker. so, i think here in this ad, of course, in her visit to georgia and many other battleground states, you not only hear her start to introduce herself and her policy portfolio but also strike this contrast between her and the former president. >> we'll switch gears because we

have some major breaking news. special counsel jack smith has just filed a superseding indictment in the federal january 6th case. in a statement the special counsel says, quote, today a federal grand jury in the district of columbia returned a superseding indictment charging the defendant with the same criminal offenses that were charged in the original indictment. the superseding indictment, which was presented to a new grand jury that had not previously heard evidence in this case, reflects the government's efforts to respect and implement the supreme court's holding and remand instructions. let's bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa ruben. what more can you tell us? >> i can tell you a couple of things. one is that the department of justice -- rather, the special counsel's office in bringing today's superseding indictment didn't change any of the actual charges against former president trump. they remain identical to those on the original indictment. which was filed a year ago or more than a year ago at this point, in august of 2023.

but we are already seeing just in comparing the number of sheets of paper, the original indictment was 45 pages long. this is 36 pages long. so, i expect once we start doing this page-to-page comparison, we'll see places where they have taken out allegations in order to try to comply with the supreme court's ruling. in particular, one thing i expect will be missing here are allegations about former president trump's interactions with department of justice officials. that is one concrete area the supreme court hit in its july opinion, saying his discussions with folks at the department of justice about whether or not there was election fraud and what they should do about it were part of his core constitutional duties for which he was entitled to absolute immunity. that is, perhaps, the only area they gave clarity on. the other they gave contours about what he would be immune for, what he wouldn't be immune for. that is one where they gave precise guidance. i would expect to he so that cut out of the superseding indictment.

i will also tell you, this isn't re surprise. when the department of -- when the special counsel's office three weeks ago asked the judge for more time to tell her what they thought the appropriate way forward was, a number of folks, me included, thought one thing they could be doing with that time is thinking about whether they want to supercede and take a first crack at trying to comply with the court's orders rather than dumping it all in the judge's lap as the supreme court's opinion essentially does. you see the special counsel's office making a good faith effort to do that with a newly convened grand jury. that's because the grand juries who have heard evidence in this case before have expired. in all likelihood they did not bring witnesses before the new grand jury but an agent from the fbi to even read that from transcripts or grand jury interviews that were conducted prior to the first indictment. we have some reading to do and comparing page by page what's still here, but for the most part, this remains a case

against former president trump only identical charges and with lighter numbers of pages of paper here. in an attempt to try to comply with the supreme court's order by taking out allegations of official acts for which the supreme court has said now the former president cannot be charged, much less convicted. >> do we know anything about the grand jury that jack smith impanelled here? >> we don't. we don't know it's a grand jury specific to jack smith. i want to go back to the statement you were reading from a few moments ago. i believe that statement says that while the grand jury had not previously heard evidence related to the case, that this was not necessarily a grand jury just for this. it just says, presented to a new grand jury that had not previously heard evidence in the case. i'm not sure this grand jury was specific to this case. it could have been a grand jury

already convened in the ordinary course of business and the federal district of the district of columbia. that's federal court in washington, d.c. >> it is a reminder that accountability is happening on parallel tracks here. while this one track will not happen in the timely fashion that many people wanted to see it in, it proceeds, nonetheless. >> wheels of justice keep turning. for donald trump it's a reminderer to him that he needs to get elected to get away from it all. it's an important reminder that we have to remember that this is a president who has, heretofore -- i love using that word -- that has heretofore and will likely continue to see a number of his days of the future in a court defending himself and raising money for the up. of of his defense. that's something as a democrat, if you're kamala harris's campaign or any other democrat around the country, to constantly remind voters, particularly in those swing

states or those districts that this is not a person who has been freed or free of allegations, that it's still out there. >> he has done a remarkable job, though, of getting people to not think about this anymore. it's unbelievable. they even sort of gaslighted the democracy topic and turned this around into a political persecution and held it up over and over again as an example of why actually electing him is a way to protect democracy, which is completely ridiculous given he tried to overthrow a free and fair election by calling them to capitol hill. you see meaningful videos and pieces of january 6th from the dnc, but it's remarkable that it hangs in the background. he has done an incredibly effective job of pushing the subject to the background and we won't have much information about it before the election. >> there's a part of me that wants to free you up as quickly as possible so you can begin to do that side-by-side that you

were speaking of. you will tell me when you have to go. as you look at these documents, what is it you're going to be looking for? >> i'm really going to be looking for what's missing. right now my expectation isn't that we're going to see anything new. it's, rather, that the department of justice is going to be taking away parts of the old indictment that they believe can no longer be used against former president trump. i want to take you and our viewers back to july when the supreme court ruled because that ruling isn't just about the charges. it's also about evidence. and this is what we call a speaking indictment. it goes through events and facts in order to come up with those four charges. it doesn't just say, we're charging former president trump with obstruction of an official proceeding. it tells you why and how they allege he obstructed that official proceeding. so, i'm going to be looking for what they take out of this, both

in terms of the substantive charges, but also, is there -- are there pieces of evidence here that really aren't integ cal to the charges gut could bear on, for example, former president trump's intent or we're here mostly for evidentiary reasons. >> i finally have the document in front of me, so i will begin over here. but it will never compare to your actual legal rendering of this. charlie sykes, special counsel jack smith filing a superseding indictment in the january 6th case. we heard a lot about january 6th at the democratic national convention. we also heard about it in the aftermath given donald trump wants to throw parties and fund raise around january 6th. a reminder of the very real stakes is of this election.

>> yes. let's talk about the politics first. in the past when he got indicted, he would go up in the polls. that was in a republican primary. you're no longer in a republican primary. you have a different set of voters who are now paying attention. what they are about to be reminded of is the fact that the republican nominee for president, the former president of the united states actually stopped the peaceful -- tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power in this country. that he actually fomented and incited a violent attack on the congress of the united states. so to the extent he's been successful in pushing this under the back burner, it's going to be front and center, at least for the next few news cycles. this is not going away. it is a reminder that donald trump is a desperate man. that he is running for the presidency in order to stay out of this kind of courtroom. that will hold him accountable for his attempts to overturn this election. so, you know, we've all been, i

think, very, very frustrated at the way the wheels of justice have ground so slowly. but they are still grinding on. and this is not going away. and today's announcement is going to be a rather significant reminder of that. >> what, if anything, does this mean for judge tonya chutkan? lisa ruben, i need you to take a break from your side-by-side. >> when you're asking me what this means for the judge, let's ask what it means in the immediate sense. the parties are under an existing obligation to tell judge chutkan by this friday how they think this case should proceed. that's why we saw the superseding indictment come down today in advance of that deadline. otherwise the parties would be engaged in phone calls and emails back and forth, trying to put together a joint document. usually what that looks is, party a says we should do x,

party b says, i think we should do y, but they have to exchange those ideas in advance of a deadline. my guess is the department of justice wanted to file the superseding indictment before they were already too far down the road and having those conversations with former president trump's lawyers about what they were going to say to the court. the judge now has a decision to make. does she still want this joint status report from former president trump's lawyers and special counsel's office on friday, or is she going to come forward with an order and she's going to tell them how it's going to be done? among other things there needs to be an arraignment on this superseding indictment. the department of justice in the notice you were quoting from earlier is saying, we don't have an objection to waving former president trump's appearance at an arraignment on the superseding indictment. he doesn't need to come in and plead not guilty again. we know what his position is with respect to these charges. that doesn't mean it's all up to

the special counsel's office or president trump's office to dictate the next steps. it's a question of, are we going to get to friday where they have this court ordered deadline or is the judge going to tell them what she wants to do next? my bet is on judge chutkan telling the parties what she wants to do next now that there is this superseding indictment. >> you have count one, conspiracy to defraud the united states. count two, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. count three, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. count four, conspiracy against rights. do you have a sense as jack smith's team went through this, began to thin out this document, which of those counts potentially becomes harder to prove as a result? >> that's an interesting question. i don't think i'm far enough along there. i will tell you separate and apart from the immunity decision, there's another complicating factor here.

it may not be as complicated for former president trump as it is with respect to other defendants of january 6th related charges. you may recall that during the supreme court's term they also heard a case having to deal with one of the statutes that charged against former president trump, this obstruction of an official proceeding. there was a defendant who essentially said, what i did physically at the capitol that day doesn't constitute obstruction of an official proceeding in the way that congress meant. for the most part, the court agreed, finding that it really has to be construed in light of other portions of the statute. that means obstructs an official proceeding where paperwork is concerned. as it applies to former president trump, who is alleged to have conspired with others to plan this big elector scheme, because inherent in that is the submission of paperwork with these fake slates of electors on them, it's not clear to me that that complicates anything for him, but it is necessarily

another wrinkle along with the supreme court's immunity decision that jack smith and his colleagues had to think about in winnowing down this indictment to comply with what the supreme court has done in its last term. >> we are also reminded that we're talking about an election that exists in the past. we have an election on the horizon. we see republicans, donald trump put in permission to call into question the results of an election that have not yet happened. we're seeing mechanisms in state legislatures to allow local bodies to question the results of election. yes, there has not been accountability for that. part of the reason that matters is they might try to do it again. do i see you waving at me out of the corner of my screen? >> i am waving at you. >> i'm sorry to do this to you. i do have my first real indication of what's changed here. when i'm looking at my screen

and forgive me, i'm looking at these two documents on my computer screen. when i look at the original indictment and compare it to the superseding indictment, as i expected, one of the things that is almost missing in toelgs totality now, is there was a section of the original indictment captioned, and i'm reading from my screen, the defendant's attempt to leverage the justice department to use deceit to get state officials to replace legitimate electors and electoral votes with the defendant. this is the whole component of the indictment that has to do with a former department of justice official who worked in the civil division who was plucked by scott perry and brought to the former president's attention because he was willing to draft a letter saying to state legislatures, you don't have to accept this lying down. you can replace your state's slate of electors by convening a special legislative session. and jeff clark drafted a letter

that was supposed to go out on department of justice letterhead. he was stopped from doing so by jeffrey rosen and his then deputy donahue. it culminated in what i call the oval office showdown on january 3rd where a number of department of justice officials are sitting in the oval office with former president trump saying to them, tell me why i shouldn't make jeffrey bossert clark the attorney general and allow him to send this to states that could swing the election to me? certain of his deputies, eric hirschman and pat saying to us, if you do that, you will have our resignation. this is not how the department of justice is supposed to be used. you recall i said a few moments ago that one concrete example the supreme court gave in its

july decision of what had to go from the indictment were the former president's interactions with the department of justice officials with respect to putting a doj thumb on the scale for former president trump. it appears to me now that all of those allegations are now out of this superseding indictment. >> i just think about what it means for someone like donald trump to be in the white house with nor power and trillions of dollars at his disposal. >> and more power to leverage -- >> and no accountability. >> in 2016 i was an elector. going to albany to cast my vote for hillary clinton in that election. i just think what would have happened if that were 2020 or if it's possible that donald trump with some of his allies decide they want to stop in front of state houses across the country and influence electors who were actually going to cast their vote and what that looks like, what that might feel like.

everybody in that room is a public servant. we did what we were supposed to do. i was upset hillary clinton lost but i did what i was supposed to do. i just can't imagine a world we live in where that ability to do my public service gets then threatened by people sent there to intimidate me. i have to say that that happens every day. that happens in every election when there are people that are waiting four hours online to cast their vote, feel intimidated or there are legal barriers when individual votes are being suppressed. so, as much as we talk about what happened on january 6th and the potential for that to happen across the country again, it is still happening every day, but legally, not necessarily with a gun. and that's the kind of -- that's the kind of thing that i think we've got to -- we do, but has to be paid attention to because there are legal ways and then there are violent ways to get

what you want. and trump has shown he's willing to support both. >> and i think so much about the sort of average voter and all the complexity of these legal cases and all the extraordinary analysis that lisa just did. at the end of the day what this really is, this was a group of powerful people trying to subvert the will of the voters. you can come up with any convoluted mat nations from the doj. at end of the day, that's what they were trying to do. i think americans really understand that. i hope that continues to be clear to people as these trials unfold that it's complicated legal stuff. in the end, he lost. he didn't accept the results of the election and tried to come up with every possible way to influence an independent body to change it. today the supreme court has made that more possible than ever, which i think is another piece that americans find disturbing and understand even if they don't understand the legal, you know, ins and outs. it's critical, critical issues for the long term health of our

nation and for elections in general. >> charlie sykes, you go back to that vision of a future trump presidency where he's confronted with a similar challenge. the difference is this time there's likely no one at doj who says, no, sir, if you do this, i'm out. there are likely a bunch of sycophants who say, yes, sir, as you please. >> a couple of points you made that are very, very important. number one, this is still going on. it may happen again. donald trump is not going to graciously concede this election. this time he has an entire political party that is geared up to support him. as lisa was describing that january 3rd meeting, i can't help but think, what would the meeting be like this time? those men won't be in the room again in a second trump presidency. you will have people like kash patel, people like steven miller, the entire project to come up with a nutrition is to

make sure that there will be -- there won't be people who will say no to donald trump. and then you have the supreme court that has immunized him. he has sweeping pardon power. yes, this is looking back to what happened in 2020 and 2021, but i think the people ought to be really aware of the threat of what will happen after this election, what they are prepared to do within the law as well as extra legally. i think this is a really important point and why it's, i think, a good thing that this has been reintroduced into this campaign. it is important to talk about the kitchen table issues. but ultimately, this is about the constitutional order. and whether or not weir going to have a president of the united states that will live up to its oath of office and will respect the constitutional order. right now, this is going to be front and center again because

it's not an historical issue. it is ongoing. and i have to say that i am increasingly concerned about what will happen after the election if donald trump loses because he tried to get legislators to overturn, legislators to overturn this. he tried to have the electoral vote changed. he was not able to do it last time. i'm less confident he won't have the mechanic niches in place to do it this time. >>. >> for those just joining us, special counsel jack smith has filed a new indictment against donald trump in the federal election case. trump's attorneys tell nbc news they are viewing the indictment. joining me, barbara mcquaid. first, your thoughts on this superseding indictment. >> it's probably not a surprise. the only reason i did not expect the superseding indictment is i expected jack smith to pare down the indictment, which is something you can do without needing to go back to a grand

jury. since they had the time to do this and guidance from the supreme court, this was an opportunity to go back and lay out different allegations, reframe the allegations to conform to the supreme court's decision in two cases. i think some of the focus has been on the supreme court's immunity sdilgs but it is also focused on the fisher case. that is the one that said obstruction of an official proceeding requires documents. so they're able to include new allegations about that to conform to the court's decision in that case. so this is essentially the same case but it is now become much stronger because it has pared away the allegations the supreme court have said are immune from prosecution. one thing i find interesting about this is they have included -- they did not pare down the allegations relating to mike pence. that's the one where the supreme court said this might be immune but the prosecution can rebutt that. apparently jack smith believes he can rebutt the presumption of

immunity in that instance and use that evidence of that conversation where donald trump is pressuring mike pence to certify the outcome of the election. >> can you talk to me about how those decisions are made as they decide to go through this document, to reduce the document, the conversations that were likely happening among jack smith and his team about which pieces would remain, and to your point, which pieces they likely debated over, can we actually hold this up in the court of law and which pieces had to go? >> you may recall jack smith asked for more time to respond to judge chutkan. she set a briefing schedule. jack smith got more time. he got a little heat for that for saying, let's go, where's the urgency? he said he needed to consult with people within various components of the justice department. in addition to consulting with various components, he went back to a new grand jury. i imagine these discussions were had, first at the special counsel's level, but there are

other people, other resources in the justice department who would be helpful and necessary here. for example, the office of legal counsel. that is part of the justice department that decides what the law is and does its best job to interpret what is either statue provide or supreme court decides. i imagine there was some conversation with the office solicitor group for their views on some of these things. as i said, if you're just removing things from an indictment and you want to amend it, you don't need to go back to the grand jury. i do find it interesting they chose to go back. that strikes me as crossing every t and dotting every i to avoid any allegation of misconduct in light of the intense scrutiny you know the superseding indictment will receive. >> i know you're continuing to review these two documents. i'll let you have the final word. >> the other thing i'm seeing

here, i mentioned earlier in the hour that the department of justice took away all of the allegations and the narrative about the former president's conversations with the department of justice officials with whom he wanted to enlist their help and basically subverting the election. the other thing that's missing here, to barb's point might be crossing ts and dotting is is the doj has taken out multiple fragments here, a phrase here, a phrase there, that references things that happened in the oval office. i'll give you a key example. there was a tweet mentioned in the original indictment from january 6th where the former president is telling people, we love you and we hear you from the oval office. that tweet is no longer in the superseding indictment. why? because one could argue that because he allegedly wrote that tweet in the oval office, that's an official act. that's jack smith's team saying essentially to the court and

former president trump's lawyers, i don't want to fight about that. that's not so important to the proof in our case that it's necessary to go through litigation about that particular tweet. we don't have to fight about that. we'll take it out. there are a number of instances here in the superseding indictment where you can see them do just that in an attempt to forward their case winnow it down in compliance with the supreme court and save their fights for the things that matter to them. as barb mentioned, they didn't really alter the evidence where it comes to conversations between the former president and the former vice president. that was an area some people thought they might take a crack at. they left that alone. that's something that's important to them. what wasn't important is who's where, when they said what. if it wasn't an important quote, they're gone. >> my thanks to our entire panel for jumping in here with this breaking news. thank you all. when we come back, we'll get reaction to this breaking news from the harris harris as well as the latest on the debate.

plus, the republican party showing once again why they are no longer the, quote, family party trying to tear down a biden administration policy created to keep families together. if successful, could send hundreds of thousands of people from their family and jobs here in america. we'll talk to one couple facing that very real possibility and what they're doing about it. later, the harris/walz coalition getting bigger today. another wave of republicans speaking out about the dangers of a second trump presidency. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after this. es after this ♪♪ whoa nelly! iphone 15 with tons of storage. i really want one! yo! you've won 14 times on the lpga tour! since when is one enough for you! that is true.. get your head out of the sand trap, switch to t-mobile and get four iphone 15's on them and four lines for just $25 a line. and you can save on every plan versus the other big guys. [glass shattering] swing big at t-mobile. get four iphone 15's on us. and four lines for $25 a line.

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back with our breaking news. special counsel jack smith has just filed a new indictment against donald trump in the federal election case. there are no new charges. however, the indictment is intended to remove any acts that might fall under the supreme court's definition of presidential immunity. joining us, principal deputy campaign manager for the harris/walz campaign. quinton, your reaction? >> i don't want to comment on ongoing legal cases. what i can say, americans saw the election four years ago, what donald trump did with their own eyes, so we'll continue to take the fight to donald trump on the matters. american voters aren't stupid, they know who donald trump is and they know what he will do if he gets more time in the white house. >> donald trump saying he will go to the abc debate on the 10th under the same rules as the debate that took place in june. again, that is according to donald trump. what do you say to that? >> according to former president

trump a day or two ago he said he would show up and he wanted the mics unmuted. i guess him and his team have some things to work out. we hope he shows up and we look forward to showing up where the mics aren't muted and he and the vice president can have a substantive issue about the issues facing americans. >> i spoke to mitch landrieu over the weekend. he told us that the campaign is 100% committed to winning your home state. give me a sense of what you believe the harris/walz to victory, the path to victory looks like at this moment. >> i think in georgia in particular we have to make sure that we are competing everywhere across the state, which is why you having seen us announce the vice president and walz are going to kansas. we have places in macon, valdosta, augusta.

we have to be statewide in that state. even compete in counties that democrats don't traditionally go. that's how you win state wide in georgia. we have 35,000 people signing up to volunteer in our state. we have 190 staffers on the ground. we have 24 field offices across the state and in order to win a state like georgia and states across the country, you have to make sure you're playing the field within the entire state. that's exactly what we'll continue to do and i'm very proud of the infrastructure we put on the ground there. >> i appreciate the campaign is in it to win it. i think going into places where people might not expect democrats to go sends a secondary message, we're here, we care about you. >> the power of door knocking. i don't care how much money you spend on ads, there's nothing that compares to your neighbor showing up at your door and talking to you about the issues and talking to you about what you care about. you hear this across the country. when people get touched directly by a campaign, when someone asks someone at their door what they care about, it completely

changes the dynamic. i think it's such a smart strategy on the part of the harris/walz campaign. historically democrats have stain away from that. they didn't take the battle to places they thought were blue, blue, blue. this is the right answer in georgia. it's going to be right answer in north carolina, michigan and wisconsin, too. that's where they're spending their big fund-raising haul. it's the bg smartest thing they could do. >> that's right. you don't stay away from places that you think you can win. you know what, you have these -- you have those difficult conversations. the money advantage is half a billion dollars helps them do that. it helps the campaign build that infrastructure as he discussed. a quick shout out to black farmers. they're going into these rural counties. there are black farmers in rural georgia as well as across the country. they got a settlement from the

biden administration. and it actually helps them grow their farms and do the work they intend to do. the ability of the campaign to go into these places and talk to these voters and have those voters bring their families and their friends and colleagues around the kitchen table is incredibly important. >> some of that talking to voters face-to-face. we also know the vice president has announced her plan for a major interview before the end of the month. will there be an announcement soon? >> there will be soon. the vice president said she's looking for a sitdown interview before the end of the month. you have to stay tuned. >> look at that message discipline. thaur so much for being with us, especially with this breaking news. when we come back, one couple caught in the middle of the political fight on immigration. they'll join us next. they'll join us next. immigratio. they'll join us next and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds.

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with wegovy®, i'm losing weight, i'm keeping it off. and i'm lowering my cv risk. that's the power of we. ♪ ♪ check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty.

all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important

than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. america is not a country that tears families apart. that is why in june my administration announced new action to keep american families together. that is from president joe biden today, calling out the ruling of a federal judge in texas who sided with 16 republican-led states that sued to block the program. the program would ease the path to citizenship for hundreds of thousands of people who are living here illegally but married to u.s. citizens. on monday a group of immigrants who stand to benefit from the program, along with their families, filed a motion to join the government in defending it in federal court.

one of the immigrants seeking to intervene tells nbc news, it's absurd why texas would bring a lawsuit that would literally tear my family apart. i've been waiting for over a decade for a program like this, living in a country where you've been paying taxes for years but yet you face the constant fear of being torn from your family and community. when is that fear going to be taken way? he came to the u.s. at age of 10 and now is assistant da in philadelphia. and joining us is his wife and their attorney, an attorney for the justice action center, brandon. it is good to see you again. good good to say you again. thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. my understanding is you are with your son, playing ball when you learned about this news. how do you begin to explain what it means for you and your family? >> it was devastating.

fortunately i was playing ball with my son and holding him in high arms. when i -- my arms. when i received the call that the program was going to be stopped i was devastated. i had to put my son down. i went to the bathroom, and my wife immediately knew something was wrong. my wife followed me to the bathroom and told me what's wrong, and i told her that the judge has passed something, and this lawsuit is going to impede our lives, our way of being able to move forward with our life and all our plans. it was heart-wrenching. it was a gut-wrenching punch. a beacon of hope blocked for my family once again. >> i'm among those who consider foday to be an american in everything except paperwork. you yourself are an american citizen. and that is what this program is supposed to do, it's stopped keep american families like yours and foday together so that

your son can have his family unit and not have to worry about someone showing up at your door and fundamentally undermining that family unit. i want to read to you what you have steven miller, one of the architects of the trump administration, family separation policy saying on social media. a huge win -- huge win, when stephen miller is telling you a policy is a huge win that should cause most americans along. no? >> 100%. to me it's separating our family, it's breaking my family apart. how can i live without my husband? how do i raise my son without his father? and to have that fear, that constant fear because i live with that anxiety of being separated from my husband, that's not something that's easy to live with. and so to have someone say -- show that he's never lived anything like that. >> help me understand the

legalese of this. what are the next steps to legally defend parole in place? >> yeah, absolutely. so as foday has mentioned, the court has put a temporary, what's called an administrative stay on this program, on this -- keeping families together parole process. and so for the next 14 days, u.s. cis can no longer grant applications. it can receive applications, but u.s. cis during this time is not allowed to send out approvals. past those 14 days, we can only speculate what will happen. we're not able to -- it's anybody's guess as to what could happen. for that reason, we've intervened in this case on behalf of foday, jaxhiel, and ten interveners, to be able to bring to the court's attention, to show to both texas but above all to the court the life-changing opportunities that this program can make available

to them. opportunities to keep their families intact. to realize family unity, maintain safety and stability in the u.s., request employment authorization. for many folks it would be the first time that's a possibility for them. above all, to build their families and futures without fear that removal will tear it all away. >> it is such a stark contrast to what you were hearing from ex-president trump where he wants to have a deportation force that rounds up people who have lived in the united states perhaps most of their lives, who have built families and business here, and deport them to a country they may not know and may not speak the language. >> i remember the kamala harris campaign some weeks ago, one of their commercials talked about how she worked at mcdonald's when she was in college, and i remember my dad worked at mcdonald's when he came to this country from jamaica on queen boulevard. my mother worked at a typing pool in the empire state building, the host pajama company. i don't know if that's around anymore. but i always remember my dad talking about how catholic

charities helped them be here, get acclimated here. their son is on national tv. this is what this country is supposed to be about. and to hear how administratively, legally and rhetorically these families are being pulled apart with no real solution instate, i've just -- in sight, i've just -- didn't grow up thinking that that was what this country was supposed to be about. but it is rooted in the language and the policies of donald trump. >> it's just so deeply immoral. i have to say that moment, you mentioned the moment with the deportation signs at the rnc, was absolutely chilling. i mean, it was -- gut-wrenching to watch people cheering for tearing families apart in this way. and you know, as some of us really remember the horror of these family separations. there are still children who have never been reunited with their families since the trump family separation policy. and you know, for stephen miller, once again to sort of

celebrate other people's misery and suffering i think really tells you everything you need to know. it's one thing to find a legal, you know, a new legal framework we need desperately, immigration reform. but to sacrifice, you know, the long-term stability for millions of families for policy is just -- it's immoral. >> i have 30 second left, but i want to give you the last word. what do you say to the 16 republican attorneys general who want to block this? >> this is not just an attack on undocumented people. this is an attack on the u.s. citizen. my wife is a u.s. citizen. my son is a u.s. citizen felt all her family members are u.s. citizens. my wife's brother is currently fighting for this country as a marine. so the fact that even though he's fighting for our freedom, my wife and i are still fighting for our freedom right here at home from being torn apart. it's just devastating. this lawsuit and attack on the u.s. citizens, as well. >> foday, i am always grateful

for your time. thank you for bringing jaxhiel this time, and brandon, thank you to all three of you. up next, much more on the government's new superseding indictment against donald trump when "deadline white house" returns. returns. ♪ (woman) c'mon c'mon ♪ (man) yes! ♪ (vo) you've got your sunday obsession and we got you. now with verizon, get nfl sunday ticket from youtube tv on us and get every out-of-market sunday game. plus $800 off samsung galaxy z fold6. only on verizon. (jalen hurt) see you sunday.

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hi again, everyone, i'm in for nicolle wallace. it is 5:00 in new york. we are turning to the massive breaking news on the ex-president's criminal culpability that we brought you last hour. special counsel jack smith has filed a new superseding

indictment of president trump in the federal january 6th case. the new indictment handed down by a federal grand jury is an attempt by prosecutors to shift gears in the case against trump following the supreme court's immunity ruling last month that concluded presidents enjoy broad immunity for official acts. prosecutors removed some specific allegations against the ex-president, that the same four criminal charges remain. that is where we start with former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee,republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, mike murphy, and co-founder and executive director of protect democracy ian bassen. tim, what do you make of the supers superseding? >> not a surprise. he read the supreme court's opinion, took the previous time to time, and he made -- indictment, and he made indictments. he wanted to go in front of the judge and asking her to apply

what is covered by the supreme court's immunity provision and not, he did. that he's taken the previous indictment, trimmed it, discarded the allegations regarding potential personalle change at the department of justice. the supreme court said that's within the president's official responsibilities, therefore immunized. he also took out a few allegations regarding tweets issued from the oval office. again, essentially conceding that those could be construed as official acts. but the vast majority of the evidence that was forecast in the forecast in the first indictment remains. the special counsel will argue all of those acts are beyond the official capacity of the president's duties, or even if they are arguably within president's official duties, the prumpsz of immunity has been rebutted because prosecution would not impact the functioning of the executive branch. rather than turn it over to judge chutkin, he went first. and he has truncated the case, shaped it to do what he believes will be consistent with the

supreme court's opinion. >> as you are the team and you are trying to trunk ate the case, how much in the front of your mind is durability of your argument, and how much is expediency, understanding the time is of the essence here? >> all good questions. the prosecutor wants to tell a complete story, and if there are holes in the story, then they potentially affects the persuasiveness of the entire story. there's one chapter that was in the previous indictment that in our committee process, the select committee process, highlighted this attempt to install jeffrey clark as attorney general. he can't use that. he believes, though, that there are enough other portions of the story, other chapters, which constitute a conspiracy, an intentional effort to prevent the transfer of power. and believes that the evidence is showing even with that one story and other small things removed, survives the supreme court's decisions and is persuasive enough to prove these allegations beyond a reasonable doubt. >> where does this go next legally? >> the judge still has to decide

whether she agrees. my guess is that we'll soon see her issue an order, essentially asking for the former president's team to make arguments as to why the things that are remaining in this superseing indictment are immune. do not survive the supreme court's ruling. then she'll have to make some decisions. she may have an evidentiary hearing. my guess is that jack smith will say you can decide this essentially on the papers, on the superseding indictment, our argument as to why it's outside of the scope of immunity, and the president's contrary argument that it should be immunized. >> i think -- i don't want to lose here the -- the fact that the original charges stand, conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights. what does that show you about the immunity decision that these four charges stayed in place? >> i think fundamentally it shows that special counsel smith

is confident that he still has the facts and the law on his side to obtain a conviction. and i think that's important to recognize here is this has always been a case that was an independent application of the facts for law being handled not only at one removed from the political operation of the white house because it's in the department of justice which historically has operated at arms lengths. when i was in the white house, part of my job was making sure that people in the white house did not contact the department of justice about individual cases or individual matters because those are supposed to be handled independently by the justice department. but this case has been handled at a secondary remove because the attorney general further trying to insulate even the appearance of improper interference appointed a special counsel. so this has always been a case that is an independent application of law to facts, not -- notwithstanding the fact that donald trump has tried to accuse this of being something orchestrated for purposes by

president biden. there's all evidence of the contrary. now because of the supreme court's decision, special counsel smith knows this case is not going to trial before the election. the only thing at stake here is whether the rule of law will find the former president accountable for laws that he broke. that's it. and the fact that the special counsel with that in mind knows that this is for the history books, this is long term, and he still believes he has the goods on this, and he's brought all four charges again, and as tim mentioned got out first, confident enough to do it now when a timeline isn't the issue, suggests that even with the supreme court's, frankly, in my opinion out-- outrageous opinion they believe they are ultimately going to obtain a conviction because what donald trump did seems to be that open and shut in their eyes in terms of a violation of the law in all four charges. >> and mike, it may be for the history books as ian says, but it's notable that the gop presidential nominee is charged for his actions on january 6th

as we barrel toward our next election. >> yeah. you know, the legal thing will grind out over time, but in the court of public opinion, the jury is out and is going come back in on election day. this is another big log on the trump legal bonfire. the question is in voter world, how important is it? because we're stuck in this hatfield-mccoy thing where 45% of the country hate trump, 42or 43% love him, will this move the needle? i think the small but vital number of voters in the middle, this builds on the whole character question about donald trump. so i think it's another -- in a series, it's been several weeks long, another bad political day for him. i don't think this is a hammer blow that will break a campaign like like a charge like this or the charges he's been convicted of might have in the past. you know, we're now in this new world. but it's not good. and there's a compounding effect

now. every day is more bad political news for donald trump, and the shot clock is running here. we are -- absentee voting is going to start in less than 60 days. there's so much mail-in voting now. so i'm sure somebody's throwing the remote at the tv now, another bad day for the campaign. >> ian, it is about character, yes. but it is also about an election that is a binary choice about whether or not we remain a democracy or not, whether we move into a future as a democratic nation or if we say, well, that was a great experiment, and throw our hands up. i mean, january 6th, democracy, it was all center stage at the democratic national convention. yes, the ads coming out now, they are about the economy, they are about affordable housing. but fundamentally this question of our democracy continues to undergird this election. >> look, i've spent the last

eight years at protect democracy trying to warn about the fact that we are witnessing an authoritarian wave around the world in the 21st century that is battering democracy was eastern europe to latin america to here on america's shores. and yet something has shifted in the last months that i think is important for people in my line of work and to understand which is while warnings about the danger to our democracy are important and we need to underscore that the reason we're talking about this right now is because the former president tried to overturn the legitimate results of an election, one of the authoritarian's sort of fuels is fear and anxiety. those are the ingredients on which demagogues and authoritarian thrive. and the kryptonite for authoritarians frankly is a sense of hope and joy and laughter. those are the ingredients in democracies. so i think one of the nice

turns, important strategic turns of the last month, is we are being reminded that while we must be very alert to the dangers of authoritarianism and the dangers a second trump term would pose it our democracy, we need remember that our strength, democracy strength, is in our hope for the future and our positivity. that ultimately can pierce the shield of authoritarianism. >> that is in sharp contrast to the what i read recently about how joy is not a strategy. tim, were you surprised that the mike pence piece of all of this stayed almost completely intact? >> yeah. a little bit because i do think the former president has at least a reasonable argument that discussions between the president and the vice president about the extent and nature of the vice president's authority could be construed as official. i think what you'll hear from the special counsel is it's either the president acting in his capacity as a candidate, not as president even though it's a conversation with the vice president. or alternatively, even if it is within the president's official

function, it isn't immunized because prosecution of that acts would not impair the effective functioning.articulated. not clear what it means. it is a sign of strength. i totally agree with ian that the special counsel believes that the vast majority of its case is intact and should go to a jury even in the face of that supreme court immunity ruling. >> speaking of the supreme court, cbs sunday morning released an excerpt of their discussion with ketanji brown jackson. she was asked about the ruling and told norah o'donnell, i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity to one individual under one set of circumstances. when we have a criminal justice system that had ordinarily treated everyone the same. i wonder, ian, if today's developments are confirmation of her fear that there is one specific individual being treated differently. >> well, look, i think that when

you look around the world at the success that authoritarians have had in the 21st century in places like hungary, venezuela, in places like turkey, the united states does stand out in a way that we are holding our aspiring autocrat accountable. we did something rare in human history and international affairs in this country which is our aspiring autocrat left office at the end of one term. yes, the process was bumpy, but they were turned out by the normal democratic process. i absolutely share justice jackson's concern and her criticism of this case. but i think in a moment where we are being reminded of american exceptionalism we may see the rule of law prevail over the aspiring autocrat, and i think jackson in the filing today suggests that he does have the better hand in donald trump, once again has the losing hand. >> nbc news, tim, had reporting that the trump team handling this specific case was reviewing

the superseding indictment. to what extent does his international strategy delay, delay, delay apply here? >> i think you'll see now a filing, a very forceful filing essentially challenging the superseding indictment and saying it's all immune. that will be delayed. there's no question that these allegations will not be adjudicated prior to the election. the superseding indictment is a sign that the department of justice to the extent people care about the department of justice or respect it continue to believe that there's no immunity for these acts and that there's criminal conduct. i expect a forceful response to that. both in court and on the courthouse steps or on tv from the former president. his legal and political strategy seem to be almost on all of course. >> indeed. tim, i'm always so happy to see you. thank you so much for joining me in new york. ian, as always, thank you. mike, you are sticking with me. when we come back, quotes, i cannot stay silent, why a former top general is speaking out

against donald trump. plus, from tink erg with the rules to outright voting against certifying election results, republicans in states across the country are ramping up their war on elections. later in the program, the bus tour that includes stops in deep red parts of georgia. there's a strategy behind that. we'll talk about it. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. continues after a quick break. . turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ looking for a smarter way to mop? try the swiffer powermop. ♪♪ an all-in-one cleaning tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time ♪♪ our cleaning pad has hundreds of scrubbing strips that absorb and lock dirt away, ♪♪ and it has a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't.

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the reality that we face today as republicans, as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose because republicans cannot both be loyal

to donald trump and loyal to the constitution. >> former congresswoman liz cheney laying out the choice before republicans. either you support donald trump or you support the u.s. constitution. it cannot be both. today we're hearing that same message from a man who may not be as publicly known but has spent over three decades in service to this country at the highest levels, as a general in the united states army. retired four-star general larry ellis who served at that rank under george w. bush's presidency writes in a powerful letter titled "i cannot stay silent." he says, "i took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the united states. i am proudly bound by that oath. it would be a dereliction of duty not to do everything in my power to ensure the principles in our constitution are upheld." he drive-by shooting how the man who is -- he describes how the man who is running to be the commander in chief again would not be able to serve himself. former commander in chief donald trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he does not possess the most basic qualities

of a good leader. if any service member were to act a bit like the former commander in chief donald trump, that we have publicly observed over the past eight years, then he or she would be immediately removed from the leadership positions, admonished, and separated from military service. general ellis ends with a full-their roted endorsement -- throated endorsement of it vice president kamala harris. his first-ever endorsement of a presidential candidate. if that was not enough, more than 200 republicans who worked for both bush presidents, the late senator john mccain, and senator mitt romney declared their inendorsement of harris -- endorsement of harris in another letter that lays out the danger of a second trump term. they note, of course we have honest, ideological disagreements with vice president kamala harris and governor walz. that's to be expected. the alternative, however, is simply untenable. back with us now are republican strategist and political analyst mike murphy. also joining us, professor of history at nyu, ruth bengiat,

and retired u.s. marine corps founder of action pac amy mcgrath. good to see you all. mike, you were among the signatoies of that letter by republicans. how did it come together? >> well, i think there's been an organic outpouring of concern about donald trump. and a lot of us -- and we're almost all conservatives who had worked over the years for president bush, mitt romney, john mccain, i'm a triple header, i worked for george h.w. bush on the campaign side, mitt romney and john mccain. you know, this thing kind of bubbled up, and then it got organized by mike sistak. i'm happy since it became public other people from my old campaign days for those various candidates have been emailing me, how do i get on the letter? this is a remarkable thing because it's no small deal for people who spent their life fighting in campaigns or in policy positions and government

service for the right of center cause to be so horrified by the idea of donald trump in the white house on so many levels, be it at the national security, whatever it is, that they're becoming democrats for a day which is very alien act for us, but we know this thing is a simple choice in the end. it's unavoidable. trump or not trump? and so i think you're going to see this movement grow and grow. and i'm happening it creates -- hoping it creates a permission structure for republican voters to say, you know, i don't normally vote this side of the ticket, but four years of the center left democratic presidency is a small price to pay to put a dictator -- keep a dictator-loving crook out of the white house. then we get the cancer out of the republican party and can get back in the business of being the responsibility right of center party and go win arguments on arguments and policy. >> ruth, have we seen this type of rebuke before to would-be

authoritarians? >> we have, and what's so heartening about this is we know that one of the ways you defeat authoritarians is unity of forces. unity of opposition forces, too. we don't have a multisystem, multiparty system, but this is the equivalent. it's crossing the line. and all of those who are coming out -- and these are people who really know what the stakes are -- because this is not an election about policy differences. this is a referendum on what kind of political system we're going to have. an autocracy or democracy. and the general knows that, and all of these people know that very well. and so they're crossing the line, as i put it in a recent evase and putting country -- essay, and putting country over party and doing what they think is good strategy. it's also good anti-authoritarian strategy because it's different kinds of people coming together to defeat a danger. >> amy, general ellis is crossing a different type of line here, right? this isn't about partisanship for him, it's about the fact

that it's rare to see a high-ranking general offer a political endorsement especially in a presidential race. what does his endorsement signal to you? >> it's sounding the alarm, right? i think it's important to note that there aren't that many four-star generals, retired four-star generals. there's only 40 or 50 total at any given time. and these gentlemen, they're mostly men, are fiercely apolitical when they get out. they do not want to wade into politics. what this shows is that this -- we're in unprecedented times right now. and many of them are asking themselves, hey, i've got to do something, and if i can, you know -- say what i really feel about donald trump right now and it could make a difference, i have to do that. and i think what you're going to see in the next 70 days, alicia, is more of these retired four-star generals and admirals coming forward. and it's really important that

voters hear that and hear the message that these former republican staffers and people that have worked for president bush, for example, and on mitt romney's campaign, they need to hear from them, as well, including donald trump's former national security adviser, his former secretary of defense, his former chief of staff, all who are not endorsing him right now. >> mike, i want to read part of the letter that your signature is on. it goes, "at home another four years of donald trump's chaotic leadership, this time focused on advancing the dangerous goals of project 2025 will hurt real everyday people and weaken our sacred institutions. abroad, democratic movements will be irreparably jeopardized as trump and his acolyte j.d. vance kowtow to dictators like vladimir putin while turning their backs on our allies. we can't let that happen." you know, the republicans, as you noted, will say i don't agree with kamala harris on policy. you were asking them to look

past that and really look to the stakes of this election in a broader existential sense. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, it is -- trump's national security policy is so riddled with either stupidity or coddling dictators and historical enemies, he's hostile to nato and the atlantic alliance has kept the peace since world war ii. any serious foreign policy or national security person in either party, and i think per mamie's remark it's right, privately almost all the leadership, the highest levels of the u.s. military hold them in contempt. so that is an issue that this election has to pivot on. and for those of us -- i've been fighting for republican causes and, frankly, running campaigns against democrats since 1984. i've been at this a long time. i don't mind taking four years off to fix the cancer that is a danger to our institutions and our country, and even at its

most extreme parts of our democracy that trump faces. i wanted to free the republican party of donald trump. so supporting kamala harris, i thought by the way in her convention speech did a wise bit of politics in sending a bit of a centrist signal to those of us who ideologically don't want a big lurch to the left, she's constructing a landing zone for republicans willing to put the country first and get back to politics once we've made the republican party a worthy conservative party again post trump. >> mike, let me ask a quick question which is do you think having all of these staffers on a letter moves any of the folks who used to work for to come out and offer the same type of endorsement? >> well, i think most of them, i know hour they're going to -- how they're going to vote. whether or not they go out and do it publicly or not, i think is a bit of a debate internally. you know, mitt romney has come the closest. he's made it clear he's not going to vote for donald trump.

i think former president bush has pretty much signaled he's not in the trump business either. i know we like the aaron sorkin where they show up one day. if my beloved boss john mccain were around trump would probably need extra secret service to keep mccain's hand off his throat or at least a good black eye. the signal sent by hundreds and hundreds of people who served the republican cause for decades is a pretty strong signal, and that will only grow. >> ruth, take a listen to what stephanie grisham who worked closely with trump had to say at the dnc. >> i wasn't just a trump supporter, i was a true believer. i was one of his closest advisers. on a hospital visit one time when people were dying in the icu, he was mad that the cameras were not watching him. he has no empathy, no morals, and no fidelity to the truth. he used to tell me it doesn't

matter what you say, stephanie, say it enough and people will believe you. but it does matter. what you say matters, and what you don't say matters. >> ruth, i want to ask two questions. one, why it's important to hear from people like stephanie grisham who were in the room and, two, what it tells you that the people in the room this time, as we learned in the last hour, are going to be rfk jr. and tulsi gabbard part of the trump transition team. >> i think as was said before, what the strategy of having people who really know the rotten character of donald trump and know how dangerous he is, having those people speak at the democratic convention and break with him sends a message to people who have been conditioned to see democrats as political enemies. there are polls about this. trump is -- and maga have been so effective at polarizing us that you need that per mission

strip, that landing base, that home because of the rigidits of our bipartisan system. as for people in a second trump administration, this is inevitable and part of the authoritarian dynamic of radicalization. you always get the worse and worse people because there's nowhere to go but become more extreme. and so you have the most unscrupulous people who would put up no guardrails whatsoever for whom any lie is okay, any bad behavior. and so the more that those people are pub sidesed as being in the -- subsized as being in the trump administration that they would love to have the more i think the message of country over party and defeating this danger will find traction. >> amy, you take what the general has said about fidelity to the constitution, you heard what stephanie grisham said about being in the hospital ward and the former president wanting the cameras trained on him.

and then you have him laying a wreath at arlington yesterday. when you put it all together, what does it say to men and women in uniform? >> well, you know, as vice president harris has said, that donald trump is a deeply unserious man. and when it comes to national security, unserious equals dangerous. and i think that's what these -- folks that are coming forward who have worked with donald trump on the national security stage are saying. you know, h.r. mcmaster who was his national security adviser said that, you know, he can be -- donald trump can be manipulated by those like vladimir putin because he's addicted to adulation. this is a national security concern. and that i think is the big message that we have to keep talking about. and of course trump's denigration of those who served in the military. i mean, he is unserious.

yesterday he stood at the grave site of a u.s. marine who had been killed in afghanistan for a photo op, and he gave a thumbs up. who does that? who does that? nobody does that. i mean, this is the kind of man that is the republican nominee for president. and we have to keep talking about how unfit he is. >> amy, mike, ruth, thank you all so much for being with us. coming up, ten days until early voting starts in north carolina, and republican efforts to inject chaos into the election, they are gearing up. stay with us. ay with us but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with

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after weeks of sounding the alarm about the danger to democracy posed by new rules passed by trump allies on the georgia state election board, democrats are now suing to block those rules, warning that they make it easier for maga election deniers to steal an election. writing in a filing that they could lead to, quote, mass disenfranchise. of eligible registered georgeance . the effort by the state election board to undermine the elections one part of a growing movement by trump allies to undermine voting rights by any means necessary. in colorado, gop election officials are voting against certifying local election says in what experts call a test before this year's presidential election. or in texas where texas attorney general ken paxton raided the homes of members of the oldest latino civil rights organization

in this country. including one state house candidate and a local area mayor. packston says -- paxton said the raids seized personal cellphones, electronic devices, family photographs, as well as swabbed for dna are part of an investigation into voter fraud. lulac's president called the raid, quote, pointblank voter intimidation. joining our conversation, the founder of democracy docket mark alias. and his law group has been with the harris-walz campaign. how likely is that georgia suit to succeed? >> i think they're going to win that case in georgia because the republicans, you know, are trying to pull a fast one here on people. i'm glad you pointed out what's going on in colorado because it's not just georgia. and it's not just by the way colorado tissues's also, we saw in 2022 they tried this in arizona, in my -- my law firm sued and won. we saw them try this in pennsylvania, and my law firm sued, and we won.

the effort by republicans to subvert election results by trying to turn the scoreboard operators into players on the field is not going to -- not going to succeed, this lawsuit that the dnc brought, kudos to the layers. this is the tip of the icingberg that the republicans are going to go to to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat. >> who's organizing and finish funding -- and funding this, mark? >> great question. there is a constellation of well-funded right-wing organizations. we'll start with the republican national committee. donald trump has said don't worry, rnc, don't spend money on getting out the vote, don't spend money on making sure people know how to vote. just spend money on voter suppression. that's why rona mcdonnell got fired, why mike whatley is in that spot and his daughter-in-law is the number two person at the rnc. then you have stephen miller's organization, clana mitchell's organization, like bunch of other acronyms that are well funded by millionaires and

billionaires all aiming to disenfranchise black, brown, and young voters so that they won't be able to vote. and then if that doesn't succeed, to subvert the election results afterwards. >> mark, i want you to listen to fox news host maria bartaroma claiming that texas officials are rujsterring un-- registering undocumented individuals to vote. >> i reported earlier and over the weekend that a friend had sent me a text this weekend telling me that they went to the dmv for a new license, and there were lines and lines of illegals all over the dmv. they had a tent outside and a table to -- to register them to vote. and so what's going on in terms of illegals voting in this election? and do you think that's the reason that the border has been wide open for 3.5 years? >> just not a thing that happens, there are no numbers that bear this out. they have decided, mark, that they're going to make this their

boogieman and need to note that fox news deflected, they said that bartoroma was citing a source, never confirmed the story. that didn't stop texas ag ken paxton from continuing to repeat all of this. we know where this is headed, we know what they are doing, mark, both rhetorically with their lies and then legally with their actions to change the rules to bend to their will. >> yeah. let me tell you how i interpret that. maria bartoromo who has been spreading conspiracy theories on her show for years now has a friend who heard people speaking spanish at the department of motor vehicles in texas and assumed or maria assumes that because they were speaking spanish they must not be u.s. citizens. how the hell would the person know whether those folks were u.s. citizens or not? the fact is texas is one of the hardest states if not the hardest state in the country for citizens to register to vote. that is the disgrace, that is

the scandal of texas. >> yes. >> and the efforts to demonize people who are doing voter registration from lulac and elsewhere in texas is an absolute national scandal, and i'm glad that you're paying attention to it. >> okay. we talked about georgia, talked about colorado, we talked about texas. let's talk about north carolina. you have reporting that democrats in the state are investing huge amounts of money into the secretary of state's race to prevent democratic victories from being overturned. quote, the only reason you say north carolina stay out of trouble in 2020 is because it was a trump state, one democratic official said. they didn't have a need or a desire to have a fake elector scandal. i just wonder how democrats thinking how the strategy has changed since 2020. >> look, i think -- i think -- right now republicans are very nervous about that. it is also one of the most gerrymandered states in the

country. the legislaure is as gerrymandered as any in the country and as crazy as any in the country. what's standing between that legislature and the worst of the worst is the democratic governor. and so you know, josh stine is on the ballot and keep that governorship moving forward. but in the meantime, you know, republicans, the rnc just filed two more lawsuits in north carolina. we expect even more coming. you know, and my message to the republicans in north carolina is we have beaten you in court before, and we will beat you again. >> mark, before you go i want to get you in on this breaking news. we had this hour, superseding indictment from jack smith and the federal election interference case. anything there that surprised you? >> look, i think that the good news is that jack smith is -- has taken the original indictment, he has pared it down to the facts that do not involve official action, what the supreme court said he had to do, i don't agree, but jack smith's

done that. they are ready to go in washington, d.c., with this case, and donald trump for those people who worry about election subversion, the reason why it's going -- it could be worse this time is donald trump is literally fighting for his freedom. he is facing indictments. he is facing sentencing in new york. and he's going to be worse than ever before. but the good news is there are lots of lawyers and organization who's are going to protect your right to vote. >> mark elias, as always, thank you for landing on that note of hope. and thank you for being with us. after the break, then about the returns to the campaign trail this week with a swing through battleground state georgia. we'll talk about it next.

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call this number. we have to be statewide in that state, and even compete in counties that democrats don't traditionally go. that is how you win statewide in georgia. >> that was harris campaign principal campaign manager quinten folks last hour previewing a bold strategy with winning georgia. starting with the harris-walz bus tour starting this week. they're emphasizing deep red parts of georgia. folks put it, "the atlanta journal constitution," quote, these are the types of places where you might not go from losing 90-10 to winning them but you can stave off a bigger defeat. it is the seventh visit to the state this year and second since launching her presidential campaign last month. let's bring in senior politics

reporter and msnbc contributor greg bluestein. when i said yesterday i thought we'd be seeing a lot of you, i did not necessarily mean today. i'm always happy to see you. just a little more from your reporting. tell us about how to georgia democrats see this specific strategy working out. >> look, republicans for a generation, generations probably, have focused mostly on rural georgia. donald trump, it's rare that he goes to atlanta. he had a rally in atlanta earlier this month. usually the rallies are in south georgia, north georgia, or west georgia. it's democrats who stick to metro atlanta. they run up the score in metro atlanta which composes more than half of the state. but the democratic strategy for winning georgia now involves cutting the republican margins in rural parts of the state where a democrat, at least democratic presidential candidates, rarely if ever go to. there's been a number of more than a dozen visits from president biden and vice president harris to georgia last couple years, only two of them came from out of metro atlanta.

now there's going to be two days of stops outside of metro atlanta. this is laying out a big marker that democrats are going to compete in these deep red areas, as well. >> help me understand how much of that strategy, greg, has to do with the way that harris and walz resonate in the state. what is it about their unique candidacies that actually sort of is driving some of these crowds that we've seen. >> you know, there's a couple things at play. senator raphael warnock who he was campaign manager for, proved you can win in georgia not just by focusing on metro -- exactly like this. he was all over savannah plenty and was in small tauns in south georgia and north georgia that hadn't seen top-level democrats in years. and so they're may be off that strategy. also, it's an effort that she seems to be navigating very well right now, but it is a tricky effort of both firing up the base and appealing to independents.

and in a state like georgia, you can't just win by firing the base, you have to win the middle of the electorate. joe biden did that in 2022, raphael warnock and jon on, sophodid it in 2022. you can't just energize the base like republicans can. they can innovate the gop base. democrats have to cut into some of those independent middle of the road voters that republicans usually win but haven't in the trump era. >> also reporting that senator warnock is expected to play a key role on the campaign, quote, essentially raising his hand to get out there, a sharp contrast from the biden at the top of the ticket. if you were democrats, where are you leveraging warnock? >> i think democrats are going to use senator warnock all over the country really. but in georgia, i expect him to continue to be in metro atlanta but also in savannah. his hometown. quinton folks told us at the

"ajc" that he expects to see senator warnock in battleground states like north carolina, battleground states like arizona. you know, he is a unique candidate who has done what i said earlier. someone who can energize the base but also reach out to those middle of the road voters. the kemp-warnock voters, voters who voted for senator warnock and brian kemp, a republican, were a decisive factor in 2022 and could be the decisive factor in georgia in 2004. >> we learned -- 2024. >> we learned it will be their first joint interview. they will sit down with cnn. something a long time coming, right? >> exactly. and look, if you talk to republicans in georgia but also republicans everywhere else in the country, one of the top to s in georgia but also republicans everywhere else in the country one of the top attack lines against vice president harris is she hasn't done press conferences, media interviews, more drawn out media coverage and she's trying to undercut

that argument right now and that will be here in georgia. >> greg, thank you so much for being with us. good to see you. before we go to break check out governor tim walz on subway takes, a social media interview show. >> so what's your take? >> my take is the neglected part of home ownership is the gutters. it's personal for me. >> 100% agree. >> i had problems with gutters before, you get your basement wet, cause ice dams, problems. >> it's dangerous. >> yes. when you live in minnesota, fall is a great time of year, leaves. >> the leaves get stuck in the gutter. seen many a man fall off the ladder. >> but there's a fix. you can put a gutter helmet on it. >> a helmet? >> it covers it, lets the water go through. >> how often do you look at gutters? >> quite often.

i try not to be judgment but when i see a well tended gutter it says a lot about somebody's soul. >> the governor bringing his midwest charms to the campaign. another quick break for us and we'll be right back. > anoths and we'll be right back. conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger, disease and poverty. we urgently need your help to reach children in crisis. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we need 1000 new monthly donors this month to help children in crisis around the world and right here at home. you can help us provide food, essentials, and lifesaving medical care to children in the most need.

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thank you for letting us into your homes this tuesday. the beat with ari mel burn starts now. special counsel jack smith has filed his response to the blockbuster supreme court immunity ruling. a lot is happening but you probably remember the special counsel sided with trump against smith in certain aspects of the case. but the trial is going to happen sooner or later so this is a formal superseing federal indictment in the coup case. jack smith is on offense but he's making a different or revised case based on the supreme court ruling. david kelly is standing by to give you that breaking news. we begin with the first presidential debate between

doru