kamala harris in 2020, they're going to need to maintain or up those numbers of black voters specifically. but white women are going to have to come out and vote, moderate to white women as well. this push for the economy is very important. economics atop the list for women across the board. but also, you've seen that conservative outreach to moderate women, they need a permission structure as michael my friend said. >> michael and i are both friends talking about the permission standard. co-host of the weekend, symone sanders-townsend, thank you for joining us. you're sticking around for "morning joe." i'm sticking around for "morning joe" but thank you for waking up with us on "way too early." "morning joe" starts now. and a good morning to you. welcome to "morning joe."

the sun coming up 6:00 a.m. it's wednesday, august 28th. and we have a lot to get to this morning. including special counsel jack smith trying to salvage the federal election interference case against donald trump. filing a formal indictment against the former president. we're going to bring you excellent analysis in just a moment. meanwhile, donald trump now says that he will debate vice president kamala harris in two weeks, but the harris campaign still needs to be resolved. and we'll have more details about that -- the operation that rescued an israeli man who was held hostage by hamas for more than 300 days. that comes as israel launches a broad operation in the west bank with raids and air strikes in that territory. i'm jonathan lemire along with u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay in this morning for joe, mika and

willie. we'll be joined by symone sanders-townsend, and mike barnicle, and nbc news capitol hill correspondent, you just saw her on "way too early," ali vitali. lots to get to this morning, let's dive right in. beginning with legal news. former president trump is blasting a revised document against him as shocking and a direct assault. in response on social media yesterday, just hours after he was indicted, once again, over his efforts to yo turn the 2020 election loss. that effort culminated on the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. special counsel jack smith filed an indictment. tin concluded the four in the original indictment filed last

august. they include conspiracy to defraud the united states. conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights. katty. >> yeah, this revised indictment is intended to deal with the supreme court decision back in july. that trump had broad immunity for charges related to any official acts as president. although the charges are the same, some of the evidence has been essentially whittled down in light of that ruling. specifically, the indictment removes all references to trump's attempts to use the justice department to advance his claim of election fraud. it's written in such a way to highlight that trump was a candidate for service, something that was recognized in the past to be private conduct, even if that candidate happens to be the current incumbent. a source familiar with the trump defense team tells nbc news this revised indictment was, quote,

not a surprise, but the team did not necessarily expect it to be filed yesterday. joining us now, former litigor on msnbc, lisa rubin. lisa, when you look at this indictment, does it satisfy the conditions that the supreme court put on the idea that the president cannot be tried for official acts? has jack smith managed to thread that needle. >> katty, anybody who tells you definitively yes or no that he's threaded that needle, hasn't red the supreme court decision. that supreme court decision lacks the guide tones the office because it says that a president is entitled to presumptive immunity for his official acts, but it doesn't necessarily define with precision what's official or even how the special counsel could rebut that resumption. and it alsoization the

presumption of immunity is rebuttalal for now, suggesting is the supreme court could revisit that issue even on this superseding indictment. that having been said, i think jack smith and his team made a very good faith effort to pare down the indictment. and particularly take out a number of allegations not just the department of justice that the supreme court said was off limits, but to recast certainly allegations in a way that would comport with the supreme court's ruling. one example i'll give to you, for example, the is supreme court said presidential communications are usually things within this official duties but there may be circumstances in which the president using twitter was talking mostly as a dant, or even in his personal capacity. you see now in this revised indictment, at the very front, jack smith and his team acknowledge that while trump may have used twitter on occasion

for official purposes, for the most part, he was using his tweets for purely personal, unofficial purposes, trying to reframe the former president's use of twitter. so by the time they get to january 6 and some of the tweets at issue in this indictment, they've already done the work to say this isn't a guy who is communicating with people as commander in chief. he's communicating as a candidate and therefore, it's on limits, not off. >> lisa, with concern to the indictment, walk us through some next steps here. and the best you can, what a timetable might look like, because, of course, as any criminal indictments or criminal matter involving donald trump has to be looked at through the prism of election year. >> absolutely. and i think, jon, for people expect something sort of resolution before the election,

this is yet another unsatisfying step. jack smith and his team are taking the long view here, they are trying to, as you noted at the beginning, preserve as much of their case as possible. with a towards trying the case against the former president if they are able to and that means no rush. what i think will likely happen next, we'll see the trump people get an opportunity to say this does not comport with the supreme court's ruling, and that they'll move to dismiss the superseding indictment. so, in a way, we're going back to square one. but again, jack smith and his team are taking the long view, on the longer time lines, and they'd rather than do it right than do it rushed. and this revised indictment is a reflection to that. >> meanwhile on cbs justice jackson was asked about the

ruling. >> in your dissent you declared that the most powerful person in the united states can under circumstances become a law unto himself. sounds like a warning. >> well, that was my view of what the court determined. >> you were concerned about broad immunity? >> i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances. when we have a criminal justice system that had ordinarily treated everyone the same. >> so, mike, there's little debate about where justice justice ketanji brown jackson has there. i guess the question for jack smith, has he put together a new

case that would satisfy some of the more conservative members of court and allow him to go with the case now written. >> well, it seems to me, i'm not a lawyer, obviously, but it seems to me what jack smith did was edit the original, pared it down to get approval. but i think there's another aspect on this on the minds of more than a few people. a couple of aspects. one is merrick garland running his tutelage over the justice department, why did it take so long to get this case moving? we are coming up on four years' passage of time from january 6th, 2021. and here we are, still in the weeds of legal back and forths. and the keyword, i think, out in the public, lisa, when they think of this case is the word "again." donald trump indicted again. and you can feel the shoulders of the average voters shrugging and moving on because of that

word "again" and the timeless factor of this investigation and indictment process. >> i can understand, mike, how folks at home might feel a sense of fatigue or exhaustion by hearing that word "again." and i would encourage people to, instead of looking at this as a wholly new indictment to look at it as complying with the supreme court. this is the way it's supposed to function. whether or not we think the supreme court ruling was legitimate, jack smith and his team are trying their darnest to try to comply with that. that includes bringing this case to a grand jury, so trump and his lawyers couldn't campaign that a grand jury that heard impermissible evidence, this is heir effort to cross their ts

and dot their is and preserve the case for the long haul, even as you say, we are here because of some delay on the justice department's part. >> delay from the doj and leap maneuverings from the trump team. where we've heard three of their four cases push back. we should note, the sentencing in new york still, at least for now, is scheduled to be helded in a couple of weeks. we'll see what happens there. we appreciate msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin for starting us off. lisa, thank you. donald trump reacted to the indictment with real anger. in a series of posts on truth social trump railed against the revised filing incorrectly arguing that the supreme court had granted him full immunity. he called it an attempt to interfere with the election, direct assault on democracy, unprecedented abuse and the single greatest sabotage of our

democracy in history. trump also wrote this, it is doj policy that the department of justice should not take any action that would influence an election within 60 days of that election. of course, though, trump is the one who has continuously sought to delay the trial until after the election. we should also notehe benefited from the 2016 when director comey reopened the investigation into hillary clinton's emails. jd vance weighed in. >> i don't think it changes anything legally. he should be ashamed of himself. it's one of the reasons we have to win because he should not be anywhere near power. >> symone, the hypocrisy is off the charts. he himself has been indicted for election interference, for what

happened in 2020 and than january 6th and now he and his running mate are claiming that's what's happening to them. so, looking at this through the political lens, how much do you think this will matter? and certainly it matters in terms of right or wrong. it matters in terms of the rule of law. but how much do you think it matters for voters? >> look, i do think it matters for voters, jonathan, if you look at not just the polling, but focus groups. and in talking to voters what they say will matter the most is whether or not he was convicted, a trial actually happening. when it comes to that, we're not going to see a trial now prior to election day, given the supreme court rulings and coupled with donald trump's delay tactics. i do think what's really important, you've seen the harris campaign do more of this and democrats writ large in the ninth hour, it's going to be

critical to talk specifically about what exactly has happened. to push back on jd vance and others who would assert that this is election interference. to not allow them to twist and make up a narrative that does not exist because the reality of the situation is that donald trump has been charged for crimes essentially that he committed years ago. but because of the slow nature of our justice system, this is a conversation we are still having. but the idea that this is all made up and that democrats just did this is something that there is a subset of the electorate that is, you know, susceptible to. so democrats are going to have to be aggressive in speaking just the facts. >> i reported earlier this year the real frustration from the west wing about how slow the department of justice investigation was. and president biden, talked about some but not as much as democrats would like, ali, we heard from vice president harris in chicago last week, more directly taking on the idea that donald trump was a convicted

felon. i know there were some democrats that i talked to there pleased to see that. what's your sense, in the party or harris campaign, how much of this donald trump's legal woes will be part of her argument, during this campaign, including in that debate in a couple weeks? >> it's innate to her candidate. when you think back to 2016, her first presidential run, during that first debate, many people are saying to me they want to see her prosecute the case against donald trump. that debate was the initial trial stage for that. of course, the headline became bussing and other things with joe biden. but now we're back to that same theme. she is a prosecutor by trade. we watched the way she started to give sort of the opening argument at the dnc how she would rail against donald trump. and it will include include other things like democracy, like january 6, like his

economical policies and the like. all of that is going to be central because you're not just going to focus on one thing, you have many voters to put into the coalition. i also think as we're talking about the wheels of justice turning in some cases frustratingly slowly the reason they're in such contention with politics is because of the 50/50 of this. i know that polls show a current bump for kamala harris. but all of us sitting here agree this was always going to be a tight election. it does leave open the idea if the trump/vance ticket becomes the administration i would love to see voters adjudicate this through a court of law. i think voters deserve to see the candidate they're voting for in their totality. but then there's also the politics that they will never hear the case because trump will not let them hear the case and that has been part of the delay

tact frick the trump team. >> and that notion of prosecutor versus felon is going to play out in the debates. speaking of debates, donald trump will now participate in the debates against kamala harris. he had come to an agreement with the harris campaign about the rules of the september 10th event which had been posted by abc news. trump ruled the rules will be the same as the june debate with president biden, meaning that the microphones would be muted while the other candidate is speaking. but the harris campaign pushed back saying negotiations on the mics are ongoing. and in a statement, he mocked trump for letting his handlers overrule him on the issue. what's going on behind the scenes here, symone? is this donald trump jumping in, you know, prematurely, to try and force the vice president's hand? are they trying to get extra leverage making sure the mics are cut off, realizing it served

him well in the first debate and assuming it will serve him well in the second debate? >> honestly, i think it's possible, prior to the reporting of this with politico and other outlets that donald trump was not necessarily aware of the nitty-gritty of the negotiations. he probably was not. he was asked by abc at that vietnamese restaurant just two days ago if he would like the mics muted. he said, i would probably want them unmuted. but they said they agreed to what we agreed to before. but i would say this post of donald trump trying to box vice president harris in, but let's remember, the whole reason why it's being negotiated that because the then biden campaign boxed in trump. i do not foresee the harris campaign acquiescing to donald trump and his team's request here. and i really think that we're

going to be in a position very soon where the vice president herself is saying, donald trump seems scared because why would he like his handlers to have his mics muted. so the mics will be unmuted. it's a process. >> certainly seems we'll have a few twist and turns with negotiations before that september 10th debate is scheduled for philadelphia. additionally, we're learning about an incident that took place when former president trump visited arlington national cemetery for a wreath-laying ceremony on monday. npr was first to report that two campaign staffers had a confrontation from an official who tried to prevent them from filming. steven chuang denied that no confrontation had been.

and arlington national cemetery later put out a statement confirming the incident took place and a report had been filed. the statement reads in part this way, federal law prohibits political campaign or election-related activities within army national military cemeteries to include photographers, content creators or any other persons attending for purposes or in direct support of a partisan political candidate's campaign. so, mike barnicle, you know, the trump campaign attended this event on monday. it was the anniversary of the death of some american servicemembers in afghanistan, as part of the evacuation effort there three years ago. they're trying to make that a major problem for the biden/harris administration, with the campaign. and trump was there, he even posed with photographs with a

big smile and thumbs up. we should note, some of the family members were doing the same. that's their right. donald trump, very strange that he would do the same. some of these veterans are aghast in any shape or form, arlington national cemetery was being used as a backdrop for political purpose. >> jonathan, i looked at the same pictures that you're looking at now, alluding to, and describing at arlington taken of the former president, and the thought rolled immediately through my mind, is nothing sacred. that is sacred ground. and the idea that any candidate of any party, would use intentionally or unintentionally use that sacred ground as a prop for political campaign is beyond condemnation. it's terribly upsetting, obviously, to people who have

buried loved ones in arlington national cemetery. it's terribly upsetting to veterans and people who view it as a spectacle. and it ought to be for americans who value what this country has done worldwide for this country and will continue to do for this country. >> this comes just days after trump suggested that a civilian medal of freedom is better than the medal of honor. because the army soldiers receiving the medal of honor are often killed or wounded. and we've been remined of trump referring to veterans deceased as losers. everyone, stay put. we have a lot more to get to. coming up next on "morning joe," the harris/walz trip to georgia on a bus. it comes after the state sued

the new election ward over new rules that they argue would allow individual county board members to block the certification of legitimate election results. plus, we'll talk to a democrat from another swing state, congressman chris deluzio of pennsylvania about his call for a coalition of taylor swift fans who are backing kamala harris for president. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back in just 90 seconds. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild!

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welcome back. the trump campaign seems to be embracing a former voting that its candidate had previously called corrupt. the trump team, along with the rnc has launched a new effort in the battleground state of pennsylvania, calling on voters to cast their ballots by any means necessary, including using mail-in and absentee ballots. the campaign and the rnc released a state on the new initiative. a website called swamp the vote usa.com. claiming it gives pennsylvania voters the ability to directly address mail-in ballots, bypassing, the pennsylvania department of state website. michael whatley added this, has president trump has consistently said voting by mail, voting by election day are all good options. but just a couple days ago, their candidate was expressing a

very different message about mail-in voting during this interview with dr. phil. >> i know there are things that you are not in favor of, this ballot harvesting, this mail-in ballots. >> all terrible. it shouldn't be allowed. it's a whole different mind-set. >> but it is. >> you're right. republicans like to go there on tuesday and vote in person. that's been for a long time. many years, decades, decades. it's a custom almost, it's a family custom. it's a beautiful thing. the democrats play a different game. >> anytime you have a mail-in ballot, there's going to be massive fraud. >> he's been on a series of dr. phills this year. ali. despite what the rnc and campaign said, trying to push voters saying, mail them out. they can't do it. along with dr. phil, suggesting the mail-in ballots at the very

heart to claim that the 2020 was fraudulent. so, this is mixed messaging for republicans at home. there's going to an impact on downballot races? >> yeah, there's mixed messaging. even in the last half hour, he's okay with having mics unmuted during the debate. but his campaign says that's not what they want. that's a contradiction. there's probably no impact on voters but this is an impact that will be seen on election day because prime has primed his base to be at least skeptical if yacht outright against the idea of voting early or by mail. the idea that exists is that more people have access as their right as an american to vote for who will lead them. and republicans in the past have specifically will be successful in turning out ballots. pefl in states like florida where they've previously seen success in this method of voting. so trump is only hurting himself by trying to erode the

confidence in the system of being having a breadth of ways to exercise their right to vote. he's right, some people do have a custom of going to the polls on election day. that might be a family thing. but other people who work they don't have the option for that. and i think that's one of the things incumbent to us, to express to voters of all political stripes these are all valid ways for you to go to the ballot box. it is, though, counter, to what the rnc and trump campaign are trying to do. and in an election of razor thin margins, all of us see if trump doesn't do a good job in turning out his base is more prominent, that's something that trump will rail against, too. all of this continues to lay the brickwork that he loves for continuing to erode trust and faith in the way that americans vote and elect their leaders. >> for trump's campaign stuff, to stay on message, he, of

course, probably doesn't really like mail-in voting for some reason. but his campaign corralled him into saying it. a candidate to get a message, whether it's on the economy, whether it's on the person or as simple as whether he likes mail-in voting or not. meanwhile, vice president kamala harris and tim walz will embark on his a trip this year. it will be a democratic ticket first trip to the state. they're going to stop in atlanta. the trip will culminate in a solo harris rally tomorrow evening. joining us, the political reporter for "the atlantic" greg bluestein. greg, obviously trump needs this election but harris is clearly

making a play for it this week. and she's going to areas of the state where i guess the idea is they may not win them, but if you can run up the numbers enough in the more red counties, you can afford to lose a little bit in some of the more bluer counties? >> that is exactly right. these are areas that democratic contenders hardly visit, even back when georgia was much more competitive than 10 or 15 years ago. and now they're visiting again. this is a part of -- i'm in the area right now, and democratic candidates hardly ever visit here. look, the campaign is very clear. they don't think they're going to win some of the deep red parts around savannah, just a few miles from here. but they feel that they can cut into the republican margins. and if you can shave some of those margins in these areas 3, 4, 5% then is starts to accumulate. joe biden proved that in 2020. and senator raphael warnock

proved that, too. >> i'm wondering about the impact, do you see shades of what senator warnock did in his campaign in campaigning throughout georgia, especially rural georgia. yes there are white voters, there are black and latino voters in the area as well that usually don't get a lot of attention from democrats. >> you're correct, the tricky two-step that the vice president is trying to pull off, she's reaching out to independents to swing voters. they're not just in the suburbs, you talk about the atlanta suburbs, but they're also in rural georgia. swing voters, disaffected republicans, you name that. she's trying to make that message. she might go to black rural

counties, but she also might target, you know, more majority white communities as well that have conventionally gone deep red. >> so, let's take the republican side of this which has been, of course, well chronicled. that donald trump has taxied governor kemp. he's gone against the secretary of state, georgians up and down the ballot, much to the chagrin for now, trump has played to try to make up a little bit with kemp, how is that being perceived in georgia, how is kemp going to campaign, if he will, for trump? and how will that mend fences to put the state in trump's column? >> the word about how this is receive is skepticism. you know, republicans often use the same phrase to describe the tenuous truce which it could fall any moment. the former president could rattle off another tweet just

before he did right before his rally in atlanta a few weeks ago. governor kemp, this is not what he wakes up thinking about but donald trump still blames him for his 2020 defeat. he's probably going after one of the most popular politicians in georgia. probably the most popular. and someone he needs to reach out to voters. some of them voted for senator warnock just a few years ago. >> political reporter for "the atlantic" greg bluestein. thank you for insights there. appreciate it. ali vitali, before you go, give us a sense on your final thoughts on georgia, as noted it is a state that would be hard to get to 270, not impossible, but hard. but now we see the harris team is really in play. >> really in play, and you see that, because that's where the

ticket is, of course, spending some of these crucial days before election day. of course, they'll be back more than just this week. what i think about georgia is two-fold. first what you're bringing up here which is this ongoing feud with kemp doesn't help trump. but the idea that people are kemp-style republicans in georgia are probably more in republican fashion of someone like nikki haley. and it brings up the issue why the trump campaign is not doing sufficient outreach in the form of haley supporters to try to get those voters back in.fold. and as we've seen with the harris/walz trying to get those who are skeptical or trump naysayers, trying to keep that. that's why someone in the dnc spot could be so impactful. the other thing in georgia, greg would agree with this, the larger idea how women in the suburbs will play, that, of course, will cut across racial lines. and specifically the idea how the campaign will try to appeal

to white women who may have a tendency voting conservative. but those are the kind of voters i've been meeting for years. the harris team knows this is someone they have to make inroads on and they're focused on that. coming up on "morning joe," we'll move to major developments on the middle east. and israel has launched military raids within the west bank. former commander of nato, retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis joins us with his insights. "morning joe" will be right back.

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ukraine's top military commander says 30,000 russian troops have been pulled from the battlefield in the south to defend against ukraine's incursion into russia. he made the comments yesterday while claiming his forces have captured 100 russian settlements since the counteroffensive began. however, he warned that moscow is building up its own forces in ukraine's east, where russian troops are advancing. all of this comes as moscow continues to shell cities throughout ukraine. president zelenskyy revealed this week that f-16s were used

to shut down russian missiles on monday as multiple regions were targeted. pretty complicated situation at the moment in ukraine, i'm not sure where it lies at that front. >> yeah. such a 0 bold offensive by ukrainian forces. meanwhile, in the middle east, israeli forces carried out military raids in the west bank. israel's foreign minister posted overnight on social media that israeli needs are working to, quote, thwart, islamic iranian terrorist infrastructures. joining tuesday now former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis, he's the chief analyst for nbc news. admiral, let's start with the middle east. what is your read on what israel is trying it do in the west bank. >> yeah, let's level-set for a minute. we tend to talk a lot about

hezbollah to the north, hamas on the gaza strip and the houthis on the red sea. those are three distinct fronts for the israelis. here we're seeing them in the west bank which has been relatively quiet. but an operation where they kill ten palestinians, say, you know, population adjusted, that would be like the feds going into new mexico and killing 350 terrorists. so, this is a significant operation by the standards. and it shows you that israel is fighting a war on multiple fronts. >> but what is the risk, though, that could inflame the situation further? i mean, is the west bank is different from gaza. also, of course, negotiates are in cairo, as we speak, trying to hammer out a cease-fire deal that would lead to the release of more hostages, when one had been rescued in the last day or so. you know, they're not at the finish line for these negotiations, and it seems like

every time they get close there's more violence for potentially a setback. >> exactly right. and that's the real concern, the longer term ability to deliver a cease-fire. i think that everything that's happening in the west bank is going to have a chilling effect, shall we say, on all of that. and it happens as a backdrop of iran kind of lurking back, they're preparing, perhaps, to retaliate for the assassination of the leader of hamas tearcarr out in tehran a couple weeks ago. so this situation is in flux to say the least. the israeli move into the west bank shows you they believe iran is fomenting unrest there. and again, it shows you the challenges that israel is facing multiple threats. >> and mike barnicle, we know the biden administration has been desperately pushing to get the deal done. but the highest members of the governments have real skepticism

whether the parties involved want to reach an agreement. >> yeah, that's one of the key obstacles to any cease-fire agreement. admiral, there are two carrier strike force in the had mediterranean. there are a total of 18 warships in the mediterranean, submarines in the mediterranean, and tomahawk missiles. and destroyed from stem to stern. the israeli parts of its cabinet seem to be actively opposing any move for cease-fire or peace agreement or recognition of palestinian state. and my question to you, with all of this on the table, is if indeed there were a peace agreement, an agreement to establish a palestinian state, given the disruptions, west bank, gaza, what would the geography of such a palestinian state look like?

>> wonderful question. i think the conventional answer would be it would include both the west bank, where israel is, as we talked about a moment ago conducting counterterrorist operations, really directed against iranian influence there. so, west bank. and the gaza strip. and, of course, you're absolutely correct -- by the way, i liked the metaphor, gaza gaza destroyed from stem to stern, it really is. it's going to have to be rebuilt. the good news is that is not a requirement to boil the ocean to do that. it's a relatively small space. 2 million people. significant but could you rebuild it with saudi money, u.s. support, other arab states, uae pitching in? i think you could, mike. so, i think that's kind of the outline of what this would look like. the challenge is not the geography. the challenge is the governance.

here, israel i think correctly is adamant that hamas will not have a role in that going forward. that's going to require the palestinian authority up in the west bank to really step up. you're going to need a new generation of leadership there. hey, final thought, you mentioned those carrier strike groups. i commanded one of them as you know "uss enterprise" alongside them, by the way, are u.s. marines who are embarked in big naval vessels, so-called large deck amphibs. they're there for evacuation of americans if necessary. so, yes, there's a lot of american fire power there. it's designed to send a signal to iran, not to get involved in this, at this, as you point out correctly, mike, very difficult moment. >> so, before we turn the latest out of ukraine, we want to show you the moment, one of the few captives brought home alive from

gaza, almost 11 months after the terror attack in israel. nbc news international correspondent matt bradley has more on that incredible rescue. >> reporter: freedom for a hostage held captive in gaza. after 326 days in captivity, hostage qaid farhan alkadi was rescued. alkadi is only the eighth hostage rescued alive in a military operation. dozens more are thought to be in captivity. alkadi rescued with the a complex operation by southern forces from inside hamas' vast tunnel network where sources say they found him alone. the 52-year-old father of 11 had been working security in a kibbutz in israel when captured october 7th. he's an arab veteran. at least 17 of them were killed during hamas' terror attack in october. this family overwhelmed with joy

and relief. we prayed for him his brother says. my mother prayed for him more. her prayer reached the sky. those still in captivity hoping. admiral, let's turn to ukraine. and get your analysis of what we're seeing here. ukraine's incursion into russia certainly caught putin by surprise, it's been quite humiliating to say the least. and they're still pounding away at targets. and that said, that perhaps is leaving them vulnerable for a counterstrike from russia. what's your take? >> this is a very bold move on the part of the ukrainians. you kind of have to think back to the korean war and douglas mcarthur reaching behind the ranks and getting behind them. this is really bold military move. that's the good news. the bad news when you create

that military salient, think of a peninsula inserted inside of russia the bad news is, it can be surrounded, it can be cut off. putin is probably moving significant forces there right now to contend with this. he's also, as you mentioned, jonathan, launching massive strikes against the ukrainian electric grid and their infrastructure, continuing the war crimes for which he is famous. so, this one is positioned right on a knife edge. katty asked earlier, what's the balance. and i think that's the right question to be asking. in my view, at the moment, russia's still going to continue to grind away. russian military strategy is kind of three yards and a clouded dust to go back to coach woody hayes. but the ukrainians are going to continue to show creativity, innovation, bold military thinking. this is an example of it. i think the forces are poised on a knife edge on that battle

front. >> all right. we will be watching all of the latest developments. retired four star navy admiral james stavridis, thank you as always. still ahead here on "morning joe," our legal experts are standing by to break down the new indictment against donald trump in his federal election interference case. plus, the ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee, congressman jim himes of connecticut will be our guest. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪♪ why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need it a little cool and i need it a lot of cool. we're both cool like that. sleep number does that. actively cools and warms on each side. the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is only $999. plus get free delivery when you add any base. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business.

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♪♪ good morning. what a great shot of the statue of liberty as the sun comes up in new york city. amazing. don't get dizzy up there. time for a quick look at some of the morning papers from across the country, the arkansas democrat gazette leads with a deadly crash with tractor trailers that caused a portion of the major highway to close almost 17 hours. according to police, a grass fire leading to low visibility led to three 18-wheelers colliding. crews were brought in for a

lengthy evacuation of the highway. and the devices were removed. to alaska now, the anchorage daily news is covering the cleanup efforts from the devastating landslide on monday that killed one person and injured three others. officials say land detached from a nearby hillside after a period of usually heavy rain and slid into a town of almost 14,000. leveling several homes and businesses, as well as cutting off power. crews are racing to clean up the scene before more expected storms hit the area which they fear may trigger further slides. and an update on a story we brought you yesterday, "the boston globe" reports that a member has died from a virus. eee is a rare and deadly virus spread by mosquitos. ten communities in massachusetts are deemed critical and high risk for the virus with several

towns announcing nighttime park closures and advising residents to limit outdoor exposure from dusk to dawn, when mosquitos are most active. and finally to wisconsin for the green bay press-gassette is highlighting jordan love. he will donate new nike cleats to an entire football team in the state of wisconsin. all k through 12 schools in the state can apply to receive cleats through the hands of love foundation website. and they will be selected based on the level of need. love one of the bright young stars in the league. very nice gesture there. next up here, how donald trump appointees played a role in overturning the debate, and now one arguing how the republican party pro-choice.

peter woiner will join us to explain his piece in the "the atlantic." "the at ntic." limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

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house there. sun coming up in washington, d.c. it's 7:00 a.m. there. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, august 28th. i'm jonathan lemire along with u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay in we're in for joe, mika and willie, symone sanders-townsend is here. and let's get to the headlines, former president donald trump has once again been indicted over his efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss, an effort, of course, culminated on a january 6th attack on the united states capitol. nbc news senior legal correspondent lawyer jarrett has the latest. >> reporter: the justice department trying to breathe new life into the criminal case against former president trump

trying to reversion the last election as he runs for re-election. the gop nominee now nation a superseding indictment in washington, d.c. the same court charges but stripped away some of the alleged acts the supreme court has said are off limits and immune from prosecution. prosecutors have accused mr. trump of a sweeping plot to stay in office, leaning on his doj, vp and state officials to overturn the election results, all culminating on the violent attack on the capitol january 6th. >> my office will seek a speedy trial. >> reporter: but the case was marred in appeals and delays, the supreme majority dealing the real blow in july, finding mr. trump cannot be prosecuted for any official act as president. sending the case back to the lower court to parse out what he can be prosecuted for, if anything. >> you're not going to do anything if you don't have immunity. because otherwise, you're going to be prosecuted after you leave office. >> reporter: the former president pled not guilty to all

charges and a source familiar with his legal strategy tells nbc news he will do the same for this revised indictment, as his defense believes it includes the same fatal flaws, including mr. trump's pressure on his former vp. his new running mate pouncing on that. >> i think it's clearly an effort to try to do election interference from jack smith, he should be am ashamed of himself. >> let's bring in justice correspondent ken dilanian. ken, good to see you, take us into jack smith's thinking here. why this indictment, and why now? >> good morning, jonathan. yes, an interesting move by smith. he didn't have to do this, another option would be to let judge chutkan make rulings on what the indictment cons stated official acts that had to be

thrown out. when i discussed this with experts after he learned this was a possibility, why would jack smith investigate himself. when you look at the indictment, it's the bearbarest minimum her. what constitutes official acts particularly that section where donald trump is accused of violating the law trying to get the justice department to investigate bogus claims of flawed. that is entirely gone. the supreme court in their opinion said this was clearly an official act, the president talking to his justice department. there are elements that remain including donald trump's efforts to get mike pence to delay the certification. we can only guess why jack smith felt that was appropriate to leave in. mike pence was not acting as the vice president, he was acting as the president of the senate in a

ceremonial role. those are the things they have to hash out again, this is essentially an opening bid by jack smith. this is all going to be litigated before judge tonya chutkan, and whatever judge chutkan rules and preserves parts of this indictment, it can be appealed to the circuit court and all the way to the supreme court before there's a trial in this case. even if donald trump losing the election, this is going to take a while to litigate, and ultimately, may be back before the supreme court again on what constitutes official acts and what trump can be tried for. >> smith has opted for what is deemed a mini trial, to lay out all the evidence knowing as you just noted wouldn't come to trial. but this way, the american people, voters, would know what was at stake. does this move now, what smith did yesterday, rule out that mini trial from happening? >> not entirely.

there's still going to be some of the evidentiary hearings and disputes about what can come in. particularly, we can expect donald trump's legal team to challenge what can come in and arguing there were official acts that should be struck. there would be hearings on that. and trump's team is going to get is discovery and have all of the evidence. as we know, evidence that gets in donald trump's team tends to leak. so we may learn more about this case. and just, you know, having this story really serves to remind people, that donald trump running for president here has been accused of three complex serious criminal conspiracies to defraud the united states, to obstruct congress and deprive millions of americans of their vote. never in history have we had a presidential candidate running under that kind of cloud. and every american should read this indictment, because it's remarkable that we're in this situation. >> ken, i'm not a lawyer,

there's an area that confuses me, the idea of roles, the president was not just a president, he was a candidate. and that the vice president was not just the vice president, he was president of the senate. and yesterday, the inauguration had not happened. so, joe biden had not yet taken over has president. how does all of that square with what the definition of immunity might be? >> you know, that's an excellent question, katty, right to the heart of it. and i don't really think it's answered in the supreme court's opinion. there was a lot left unsaid in that opinion which is why probably this thing ends up back in the supreme court. unless they died whatever judge chutkan ruled was just fine with them. because they left it vague. in fact in the dissent, remember, judge sonia sotomayor suggested that this opinion would allow a president to commit crimes to essentially order the assassination of his

political opponent. and be immune from prosecution. now, the other side disputes that. it's really not clear. it's not spelled out. the supreme court did not go into these kinds of hypotheticals. and particularly, when is a president actually acting as a candidate. that is the thing that has to be litigated and then appealed. >> nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, we appreciate your insight this morning. thank you. turning now to politics, three states have shifted closer to vice president kamala harris as she gains ground with democrats and independents, the nonpartisan cook political report shifted their electoral college rating from north carolina from lean republican to toss-up, noting that harris has improved on president biden's vote share with democrats by 13 points, black voters by 4 and independents by 13 as well. amy walter writes, the race is tightening, not because harris

is cutting into trump's vote it's because democrats and democrat-leaning voters are coming home. with cook shifting both states from lean democrat to likely democrat. walter writes that harris has been able to reconstitute and re-energize the democratic coalition in both of those states, symone, there was talk six weeks where things were low ebb for the biden campaign but there are states that could be in jeopardy, these two, colorado and virginia, i'm curious what you think about north carolina suddenly going to toss-up. because it does seem, we talked last hour about how the harris team is putting a lot of resources and time in georgia including the rural areas. they've hinted they're going to do the exact same thing in north carolina. >> vice president has made a lot of trips to north carolina, specifically within the last

year and a half. i mean, she's been to charlotte, to the raleigh area. in areas more rural parts of north carolina, specifically talking about her opportunity tour, and the economy. things that, again, are polling very, very high for voters across the board. whether we're talking about white, black, latino, asian american, pacific islander or otherwise. i will say this, i think north carolina has always been in play for democrats. they just had to spend the money to be there. and beasley was the supreme court justice, he was the chief justice. he cass the dems' senate candidate, shea beasley had a little more money and support from the national infrastructure, i believe she would be the sitting senator. democrats senior very smart here. i also note, jonathan, crazy is

not even the way to describe it, the republican candidate for governor, the current lieutenant governor, mark robinson, he had outlandish views he wants to go back to a time where women couldn't vote. him versus josh stein who is the democratic candidate for governor is setting up a matchup that is a boon for democrats and maybe not so good looking for republicans in the state. >> problematic for republicans anxious about that in north carolina. we know this race is going to be close. we know we're two months from election day. at this moment, this snapshot in time, harris has it. we're seeing the polls, trend lines support that. so, as we see her electoral map expand, how is that impacting downballot? you know, how is that impacting democrats, republicans alike, both in the senate and house

suddenly seeing a campaign reshape? >> in a very significant way. look, this was the narrative we had heard from house democrats particularly in the aftermath of harris the nominee. and we're seeing that come into fruition with the numbers. the new cast this week, it said for the house republicans have a 56% chance of winning the house which is still positive for republicans, but when biden was the nominee that was 61%. so that gap has narrowed by 5%. similar for the senate. republicans right now have a 68% chance of winning the chamber. but when biden was the nominee, it was 78%. we're seeing that you there from kamala harris atom the ticket trickle down to the downballot races. and now the challenge for the harris campaign and equally for the house and senate democrats is going to be keeping up the

momentum. they don't want to have the spike too early in the game, 2 1/2 months to go until election day. that's going to be a huge challenge for democrats keeping the enthusiasm up and numbers up in november. >> where there are vance, there are tapes this is yet another recording of republican vice presidential nominee jd vance disparaging women about children. vance criticized the head of the american federation of teachers randi weingarten for leaving the organization even though she doesn't have children of her own. >> so many of the leaders of the left, i hate to be so personal about this, people without kids try to brainwash the minds of our children. and that really disturbs me. randi weingarten, she doesn't have a single child. if she wants to destroy the minds of children she should have some of her own and leave

ours the hell alone. >> as mentioned this is certainly not the first time senator vance has been criticized for his remarks about women without children. last month attacking vice president kamala harris by calling them childless cat ladies went viral. >> we're effectively run in this country via the democrats, via our corporate oligarchs by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable. and it's just a basic fact, with kamala harris, pete buttigieg, aoc, the entire future of the democrats is controlled by people wrought children. >> yeah. symone, it all sounds kind of bonkers and 1950s. and reflects a world view of jd vance's, but how much damage do you think it's actually doing to the trump/vance ticket? >> i think it's doing a law enforcement of damage, katty,

not only is this a very old world view it's currently the platform of the republican party apparatus. in state after state, across this country, there are republican lawmakers, state legislative folks who have put bills on the floor that require women to get permission from their husband if they would like to get an abortion. there was a bill in missouri that almost -- that i believe passed, that said a woman who wanted a divorce couldn't get one if he was pregnant. i don't know what the obsession is with the current republican apparatus, with the -- not even care, but the ability to have children in that, but it seems to be a focal point. and it's disparaging a large swath of people. and let me say, as a person who has not birthed a child from my womb, i sake grave offense to these comments. i don't know children jd vance

had, his wife had the children, here we go. you don't have a stake in the game here, america, that is just weird. it is weird, it is concerning. this all goes back to this is why vetting is important. i recentthy spoke to eric holder who did the vetting for the harris/walz campaign. and i said, are you sure you got everything, watching the videos with jd vance. i have to wonder what is the vetting for jd vance because this is simply insane. >> we're seeing by polling that vance is one of the most unpopular picks that we've seen in modern history. comments certainly not happening. meanwhile, our long national nightmare is over. vice president kamala harris and governor tim walz will participate in their first sitdown interview.

dana bash on cnn, set to air on that network, 9:00 p.m. eastern. this will mark the first interview for harris since endorsed. plenty of voters don't care about media news. and others say it's the job of the president, vice president, to answer tough, sharp questions. certainly, the politics of this, harris had to do it. i wonder there are a lot of eyes on this, she'll have her running mate there as well. i would have suggested, if i were running the campaign, this should be one of a series of interviews. i don't say that as a member of the media, we obviously want that access. that's important for democracy. but also takes away the pressure. right now, if she's just doing this one, at least this one for the time being, you know, if she does have a stumble, it's going to be really highlighted. >> it's anticipation, you know, it's a ginning up of

anticipation for this interviews, a lot of eyeballs are going to be on it, a lot of folks are going to have high expectation. it's curious strategy. there was that interview that kamala harris did back in 2021 with nbc's lester holt that sort of went in not so great directions at some points. there was contentious discourse about the situation at the border. questions about whether or not she had visited the border. that introduced negative headlines for her. she does have a checkered history with the media interviews. so it's curious they would put essentially all their eggs in one basket. it's a joint interview with minnesota governor tim walz. that would focus on their relationship, more of an introductory thing. there's importance to the interview. one thing when you talk about what voters are interested in or not, kamala harris has changed her views on fracking since the nomination. she'll likely have questions on

that. as their learning to kamala harris the nominee, and kamala harris the vice president. >> it's customary for a running mate for join a presidential candidate after added to the ticket. we shouldn't overstate the importance of just one interview, that said, it will allow if not for the republicans to do away with the talking point that harris is afraid to do interviews. thank you so much. up next on "morning joe," we'll get insight from the ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee, congressman jim himes will talk about the efforts to broker a cease-fire deal in the middle east. you're watching "morning joe." and we'll be right back. starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs.

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he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. welcome back. turning to news overseas now, cease-fire hostage negotiations between israel and hamas continue as the united states remains committed in its attempt to broker a peace deal to the nearly 11-month long conflict. according to the ap, president biden's top middle east adviser, brett mcgurk met in doha to discuss a possible deal between israel and hamas. the ongoing talks amid hiegtsenned tensions in the region following a clash with israeli and hezbollah forces over the weekend. joining us now, democratic

congressman of connecticut jim himes. he's the ranking member on the house intelligence committee. congressman, thank you for joining us this morning. these talks happening over the backdrop of clashes so far the weekend. daring hostage rescue, and now israel strikes in the west bank. tell us what you know about those. and just how concern are you that every time it seems like negotiators get near a deal, something happens to cause it to break down. >> yeah. well, it has been enormously frustrating, the biden administration and brett mcgurk and bill burns, director of the cia in particular, have devoted an immense amount of time to bring the deal to fruition. this deal is important. it's important to de-escalating a conflict in the region. this conflict is not just one between israelis and enemies in the region, chiefly, hamas.

it's one that grows through a regional confrontation that you can think of a dozen different ways that the united states may get involved. so this deal is essential. and at various points in time, both the israelis and hamas have taken positions that have made it very, very hard. of course, the big one was the killing of haniya inside a republican guard compound in tehran. that made it hard to get done. we keep picking our deal on this rock because not getting this deal done is, you know, just further inflames the tinderbox in the region. >> congressman, president biden only has about 4 1/2 months left in office. and he would really, really like to get the deal done. i would imagine over the course of the next four months, he's going to put as much pressure as america can, as the white house can, on the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. we know we've gotten close.

we've gotten to the stage where that are names of prisoners that may be in exchange. what more could the white house do, say, withhold, from prime minister netanyahu, in order to push this over the line? >> well, you know, the answer to that question is at some level is obvious, but it's problematic. the united states provides a great deal of support, particularly in support of weaponry. it is uncomfortable, given the facts not just hamas, as any other iranian proxies in the region who are after israel, it's uncomfortable to say that's leverage, but it's leverage. and there have been moments when in my opinion, i think the prime minister has taken steps to actually slow progress on a deal. i'm not going to speculate too much on why that might be. but on the one hand, he's got a couple of hardcore extreme right-wing ministers.

i'm thinking about bengaveer. and whatever you may think of those. and the prime minister realizes when the fighting stops there will be very heard questioned asked exactly how the raid on israel on october 7th was permitted to occur. so, you know, i don't know exactly what form it takes, but the united states is going to need to pressure all parties and people with leverage with hamas, the qataris, the egyptians, et cetera, are going to need to pressure hamas, to finally take a deal. so we can sort of, you know, exhale after many, many months of an immensely sense situation. >> congressman, symone here. what do you tell younger constituents who are concerned, frankly, about prime minister netanyahu, and just how he has dealt with the particular issue of the war?

and young constituents who are concerned that this administration has not -- democrats writ large have not done enough to highlight the flight of the palestinian people and humanitarian crisis happening in the gaza strip? >> yeah, you know, it's a good question, of course, which is, you know, followed the administration, people like me, and democrats in general around. i always wonder why just democrats. and i think those young people should think about the fact that, you know, republicans aren't even open to the concept that maybe we should really work hard to try to prevent humanitarian disaster in gaza. but let me set that point aside right now to answer your question, which is young people or old people, or anyone in between needs to remember that two things are right at exactly the same time right now. one of those things is that israel must conduct this war. and hopefully, this war ends very soon. very differently than they have. the number of innocent lives

lost in gaza is unacceptable full stop. the humanitarian situation in gaza is unacceptable. it is also true, and absolutely critical, and by the way, this is the first thing that you should say in any discussion of the region, is that what occurred on october 7th was a tragedy and a horror of epic proportion. and the problem is, with some people, with a lot of people, quite frankly, they only accept one of those two truths. and as a consequence, you know, get pretty fired up, think that the problem is simpler than it is. but both of those things are true at the same time. and not just young people, but everybody needs to remember. so, look, if you're calling for genocide -- sorry, if you're calling for the belief that israel is committing genocide, you need to remember that israel has capability over a long period of time to actually commit genocide in gaza, and they haven't. and also october 7th.

you need to remember there are two very powerful and emotionally gripping aspects to this conflict. you can't just focus on just one on a bizarre yankee/red sox interpretation happening in the region. >> that analogy certainly hits home on this show, but you're right, far more complicated than baseball. congressman, nbc news has obtained never before seen video, former house speaker nancy pelosi's reaction to the january 6 insurrection. the video was shot by one of pelosi's daughters, a documentary filmmaker and recently turned over to hbo. in it, the former speaker says she, quote, takes responsibility for not the national guard that day. let's take a look. >> why aren't the national guard there to begin with?

>> they thought they had sufficient -- >> it's not a question -- they don't know. they clearly didn't know. and i take responsibility for not having that. because it's stupid. in a situation like this, because they thought they had won. they thought these people would act civilized. they thought these people would give a damn. what is missing here in terms of anticipation. they give us a piece of paper that says walk through the terminal. don't walk outside. >> so in a second video which is filmed in pelosi's vandalized office the next day, she refers to then president donald trump as a domestic enemy. let's look at that. >> -- take an oath, protect our continent -- our country from all foreign and domestic. there's a domestic enemy in the white house.

so, let's not mince words about this. >> congressman, you, of course, have called for a full accounting of what happened that day. and those who participated in the riots to be held responsible. let's get your reaction to these new pieces of video here. and also your thoughts as to donald trump's seemingly seeding the ground again with lies about the fairness of this election, and whether you're worried that something like this could happen again. >> yeah. it brings back some pretty bad memories of that day, i was in the chamber along with a couple of my colleagues, because we were up in the gallery, not on the floor. we were some of the last to be evacuated. and you know, it is painful to me, even in the context of an upcoming election, this is partisan. every american should look at

the tapes what occurred january 6th, when americans, thousands of americans attacked the seat of their democracy, at the behest and urging of president donald trump. and they should reflect on the fact that now there is an attempt to sort of recast history. now, i'm not sure i would use the same language that speaker pelosi used, a domestic enemy. but i will observe that the many thousands of people who attacked the capitol that day motivated by a lie, a lie that the election had been stolen which donald trump has done and still does to promulgate that lie. and many are sitting in jail today for doing so. and of course, you know, the people like donald trump, and his elite friends have yet to be held accountable. now, hopefully, you know, special prosecutor smith will address that problem. because it is pretty unseemly, that those people motivated by a lie, who broke windows, attacks

police officers, coming after us, many of emare sitting in jail today, while those who orchestrated and urged this on, the rudy giulianis of the world have not faced accountability for that. what is really appalling to me is this effort for the january 6 attack on their own democracy as hostages. you know, as people who are being politically persecuted, that is -- you know that route -- down that path lies totally tear route -- down that path lies totalitarianism, and that is a complete recasting a terrible event. >> ranking member of the house intelligence committee congressman jim himes, thank you congressman, for joining us today. coming up next here, a stunning investigation into the foreign lobbying industry. and the threat it poses to american democracy. that's next on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

and here. make a statement while barely making a sound. and command the road, as well as what lies ahead. how we get there matters. ♪ ♪

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get kardiamobile today for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon. ♪♪ nothing to do with putin -- never spoken to him, i don't know anything about him, other than he will respect me. he doesn't respect our president. and if it is russia, which it's probably not, nobody nose who it is, but if it's russia, it's really bad for a different reason. because it shows how little respect they have for our country where they would hack into a major party and get everything. but it would be interesting to

see -- i will tell you this, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. that was then candidate donald trump back in 2016, infamously called on russia to hack into hillary clinton's emails. trump will go on to say he was only joking when he made that request, but his intended audience seemed to take it quite seriously as special counsel robert mueller noted russia tried to hack into clinton's emails just hours after. discussed in a new book title "foreign agents how american lobbyists and lawmakers threaten democracy around the world." casey michel joining us now,

casey, thank you for being here, congrats on the book. >> thank you so much. >> define "foreign agents" for us. >> sure. absolutely. this is a book about the foreign lobbying industry. americans, pr firms, consultants, increasingly think tanks and universities that are signing up to act as lobbyists not for other americans but for foreign regimes, foreign dictators, foreign oligarchs, and ewing their tools and targets to target americans writ large to trench regimes and change american policy in the process. >> so, tell us some of who these people are. i have a few names in front of me, donald trump, paul manafort, others might be surprising, bill and hillary clinton. john boehner. >> some of the figures i write about in the book are well-known. paul manafort, donald trump's campaign manager made a name for

himself as a go-too lobbyist in washington. philpines to angola to d from especially ukraine. you have the clintons, most especially things like the clinton foundation which opened its doors to dictatorial funding, tens of millions of dollars, especially 2008, 2016, when those regimes thought hillary clinton was going to be the next president of the united states. the very first modern lobbyists i write about in the political space is, again, a lot of folks know about, bob dole. the lion of the senate. still viewed as a figure from a more bipartisan era in the united states. but he left office in the late '90s, early 2000s. didn't go into retirement. he ended up working on behalf of some truly heinous regimes abroad, like the democratic republic of congo and made significant sums turning into a foreign agent. >> casey, the numbers are extraordinary. you detail them so well in the

book. and you also look at donald trump and the foreign peddling he brought with him. you write, as with so many other topics, kleptocracy, the threats of foreign lobbying, trump's success brought salients. and no president has seen so many members of his inner circle, former campaign managers and advisers indicted for secretly working on behalf of dictatorships all while pushing to do trump's bidding. not surprising. trump was after all, the first american president to openly accept the aid of foreign governments in order to get elected. talk a little more about that. but also talk about what joe biden said when he came into an office, which was, he was going to put an end to this, he was going to drain that lobbying

swamp. >> that's exactly right. we have, obviously, for many reasons never seen a president, or now presidential candidate like donald trump not the least because of all of the foreign agents and lobbyists he welcomed with open arms into his white house. that stretches back preyears to the presidency when he had financial connections to regimes around the world. not just the russians and chinas, azerbaijan, saudi arabia, oman, indonesia, malaysia, the list goes on and on, that continues through his presidency. and even after he left the white house, those deals, those arguments have only continued. joe biden ran for presidency in 2020 on many different campaign planks. but one in particular was to ban foreign lobbying outright. that was right there in his campaign plank. and in his campaign promises. in the four years since, nothing has happened. he hasn't done a single thing to clamp down on foreign lobbying,

or foreign lobbying networks that continue to grow in washington. that's more many reasons, there's been very little progress made in the space. it's incumbent upon the next president, if it's president harris, to finally do something about these foreign lobbying networks. >> casey, symone here. we know about fara which is the foreign agents registration act, and people registered as foreign lobbyists but obviously, the system needs some updating. who is in charge of policing that right now? >> so, that's a great question, and that is the department of justice which you just mentioned oversees the foreign agents registration act which all of the foreign lobbyists has to file documentation for who they are working for, how much money they're making and what they're doing with that money at the end of the day.

unfortunately for years, for decades not really until trump himself, fara and the department of justice forgot about that and this is why we've seen the explosion to the 2020s. i do want to give credit to the department of justice which recently oversaw a very successful and many in many ways successful prosecution of not senators themselves, but bob menendez, the very first american legislator convicted on foreign agents-related charges found to be a foreign lobbyist for dictatorship in egypt. the very first time time in american history we've seen a successful conviction on these charges. and i suspect the first of some more to come. >> so very much in the headlines right now. the new book title the "foreign agents how american lobbyists and lawmakers threaten democracy around the world."

it is on sale now author and director of the combatting human rights casey michel, thank you for joining us. up next, mitch landrieu will join us following his appearance at the democratic national convention in chicago. we'll ask about his party's chances of winning key battle ground states. plus, we'll show you donald trump's new digital trading cards that he's now selling to his supporters. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪♪ [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty

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♪ 7:52 on this beautiful, very hot august morning, and there's the u.s. capitol looking sparkling. now, don't all rush, because i know this is what you have been wanting for a very long time, but former president trump is selling new digital trading cards at a hefty price. he announced the america first collection selling at $99 a piece. >> hello, everybody. this is your favorite president, donald trump, and by popular demand i am doing trump trading digital cards. you know what they are and we have had a lot of fun with them. 50 all-new stunning digital trading cards. it's really something. these cards show me dancing and

even holding bit coins. >> it's $99 a card and not for the set, in case you are thinking of rushing to buy them. and now those that purchase 15 digital cards, and it will include a piece of the suit he was wearing during his debate with joe biden, and buyers will receive an invitation to a dinner attended by donald trump at mar-a-lago. do you want part of the suit? was it a cashmere designer suit? that's a lot of money for a tiny cut out piece of suit. >> i don't think the suit was all that memorable. and he did a similar stunt for the suit he was wearing for the

mugshot. he sold off pieces of that. in 2 1/2 months, and he's doing info commercials and asking about a hundred dollars a piece, and nobody should be making this investment. >> is he short cash? >> well, he is somebody we know -- he is supposed to be coming into cash when he sells truth social in the coming weeks, this fall, and at the end of the day it's always a grift. meanwhile, polls are showing the presidential race is tightening and donald trump's campaign is running new ads this week. some democrats argue the move shows trump's team is nervous about the sunshine state, but

according to the bull works, sam stein, our friend, some say trump's team is spending $48,000 to a run a 15-second ad spot in his home state of florida, specifically the west palm beach media market, and we should note the lincoln project has ads so trump can see them, and now they are using valuable resources to make him feel better that many don't think is in play. next up here, we will pwrepbg you legal analysis for the revised case in the interference case.

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♪ ♪ and a good morning to you. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, august 28th. we have a lot to get to this morning, including special counsel jack smith trying to salvage the election interference case against donald trump following a resized indictment against the former

president. we will bring you expert legal analysis on this new development in just a moment. meanwhile, donald trump now says he will debate vice president kamala harris in two weeks but the harris campaign says that one major issue still needs to be resolved. and we will have more details about that -- the operation that rescued an israeli man who was held hostage by hamas for more than 300 days, and that comes as israel launches a broad operation in the west bank with raids and air strikes in that territory. i am jonathan lemire along with katty kay. we are in this morning for joe, mika and willie. we will be joined by symone sanders townsand.

former president trump is blasting a revised indictment against him as shocking and as a direct assault on democracy. trump fired that response off on social media late yesterday hours after he was indicted once again over efforts to overturn the 2020 election loss. that effort culminated in the january 6th, 2021 attack on the u.s. capitol. yesterday special counsel jack smith filed a superseding indictment which was voted on and returned by a new federal grand jury. it included the same four charges that trump faced in the original indictment which was filed last august. they include conspiracy to defraud the united states. conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights.

>> this revised indictment is intended to deal with the courts decision back in july, and trump had broad immunity concerning any official accounts as president, and some of the settlement has been whittled down from that ruling. it's written in such a way to highlight that trump was a candidate for office and something the courts have recognized in the past to be private candidate, even if that candidate is the current incumbent. the resized indictment was, quote, not a surprise, but the team did not necessarily expect it to be filed yesterday. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa ruben. thank you for joining us. i know you covered this every day at the time. when you look at the revised

indictment does it satisfy the conditions the supreme court put on the idea that the president cannot be tried for official acts? as jack smith managed to thread that needle? >> anybody that tells you definitive tee yes or no, has not read the supreme court decision, because it says that a president is entitled to presumptive immunity for his official acts but it doesn't necessarily define with precision what is official or even how the special counsel could rebut that presumption. it also says the presumption of immunity is rebuttable for now, suggesting that the supreme court could revisit that issue even on the superseding indictment. that having been said, i think jack smith and his team made a

very good faith effort to pare down the indictment and take out a number of allegations not just pertaining to the department of justice which was the one concrete thing the supreme court said was off limits, but to recast certain allegations that would comply with the supreme court's ruling. one example is the supreme court said presidential communications are usually things within his official duties, but using twitter he was talking as a candidate, and you see the front, jack smith and his team acknowledging that while trump may have used twitter for official purposes, for the most part he was using his tweets for purely unofficial purposes trying to reframe the president's use of twitter so by the time they get to january 6th and some of the tweets issued in the indictment, they have

already done the work to say this is not a guy communicating with people as a commander-in-chief, he's communicating with his candidate hat on and therefore it's on limits and not off. >> with so much uncertainty as to the fate of this indictment, let's talk about what comes next. i assume an appeal of some sort from the trump campaign. walk us through some next steps here, and the best you can, what a timetable might look like. of course, any criminal indictments concerning donald trump has to be looked at through the prism of an election year. >> absolutely. for people expecting some sort of resolution before the election, this is another unsatisfying step. jack smith and his team are trying to preserve as much of their case as possible with an eye towards eventually trying the case against the former president if they are able to,

and that means no rush. what i think will likely happen next is we will see a motion where the people will get an opportunity to say this does not comport with the supreme court's ruling and they will look to dismiss the superseding indictment. in a way we are going back to square one, but jack smith and his team are taking the long view, and they are trying to do it right than do it rushed and this revised indictment is a reflection of that. >> and justice ketanji brown jackson was asked about the supreme court's presidential immunity ruling? >> in your dissent you wrote the court declared for the first time in history that the most powerful official in the united states can, under some circumstances fully yet to be determined, become a law unto himself. it sounds like a warning?

>> well, that was my view of what the court determined. >> you were concerned about broad immunity? >> i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances. when we have a criminal justice system that had ordinarily treated everyone the same. >> so mike, there's little debate about where justice ketanji brown jackson would come down on this particular ruling and her desire to get the limited ruling limited, and has jack smith put together a new case that would satisfy some of the more conservative members of the court and be allowed to go ahead as written. >> i am not a lawyer, but it seems to me what jack smith did was edit the indictment and

pared it down to get approval from the supreme court decision. and there's a couple aspects, and one is merrick garland running his taoulage over the supreme court. we are coming up on four years, passage of time, june of 2021, and we are still back and forth in the weeds, and when they think of the case is the word again, donald trump indicted again. you can feel the shoulders of the average voter just shrugging and moving on because of that word "again" and the timeless factor of this investigation and indictment process. >> i can understand, mike, how folks at home might feel a sense of fatigue or exhaustion by hearing that word "again", and i

would encourage people that instead of look at this as a wholly new indictment, to look at it as an attempt to comply with the supreme court. it's not anti-democratic. in fact, this is the way it's supposed to function whether or not we think the supreme court's ruling was legitimate, jack smith and his team are trying their darnedest to comply with it, and that includes bringing this case before a new grand jury so trump and his lawyers couldn't complain that with a grand jury that heard impermissible evidence was the one that passed judgment on this new whittled down indictment. this is their effort to cross all their ts and dot all their is and preserve this case for the long haul, and as you say, we are here where we are because of a delay on the department of justice. >> yeah, and delay from the doj

and legal maneuverings by the trump team. we should note his sentencing in new york, still, at least for now, is scheduled to be held in a couple weekends. we will see what happens there. we appreciate msnbc legal correspondent, lisa ruben, for starting us off this morning. thank you. donald trump reacted yesterday to the superseding indictment with anger. incorrectly he argued the supreme court granted him full immunity. he called it an attempt to interfere with the election and a tkrubgt assault on democracy, and the greatest single sabotage of democracy in our history. we can do plenty of fact checking there. trump wrote this it's doj policy the department of justice should not take any action that should influence an election within 60 days of the election, and of course, though, trump is the one

that continuously sought to delay the trial until the election, and the fbi director comey reopened an investigation into clinton's emails. and j.d. vance weighed in. >> i don't think it changes anything legally. it's clearly an effort to do more election interference by jack smith. he should be ashamed of himself. >> symone, the hypocrisy is off the charts. not only did trump benefit from an election in 2016, but he, himself, has been indicted for election interference for what happened in 2020 and on january 6th. looking at this through the political lens, how much do you think this will matter? certainly it matters in terms of

right or wrong and matters in terms of the rule of law, but how much do you think it matters for voters? >> look, i do think it matters for voters, jonathan. if you look at all of the -- not just the polling but focus groups and in talking to voters, what they say matters most is if he was convicted, a trial actually happening. when it comes to that, we will not see a trial come election day given the supreme court rulings and coupled with donald trump's delay tactics. i think it's important, and you have seen the harris campaign do more of this and democrats at large and in this ninth hour, 11th hour almost it will be critical to talk specifically about what exactly has happened. just to push back on j.d. vance and others that would assert this is election interference, and to not allow them to twist and make up a narrative that does not exist, because the reality of the situation is

donald trump has been charged for crimes, essentially, that he committed years ago, but because of the slow nature of our justice system, this is a conversation we are still having. the idea that this is all made up and democrats just did this is something that there's a subset of the electorate that is susceptible to. democrats will have to be aggressive in speaking just the facts. >> i reported earlier this year the real frustration from the west wing about how slow the department of justice investigation is going and how long it took merrick garland to bring the charges. and we heard from vice president harris in chicago last week, more directly taking on the idea that donald trump was a convicted felon. i know there were democrats i talked to there that were pleased to see that. what is your sense from harris or others in the campaign, how much of trump's legal woes will be part of her argument during

her campaign? >> even if you think back to 2019 when she did her first presidential run, during that first debate many people were at the time saying to me they want to see her prosecute the case against donald trump. that debate was the initial trial stage for that. the headline became bussing and other things with joe biden and now we are back to the same central theme. she is a prosecutor by trade and we watched the way as she sort of gave the opening argument at the dnc in the case she will build against donald trump. it will, of course, include other things like democracy and like january 6th and like his economic policies and the like. all of that will be central because you are not just going to focus on one thing. you have many issues to speak to and many voters to try and put into the coalition. i think as we are talking about the wheels of justice turning,

in some cases, frustratingly slowly, and the reason they are in contention with the moment, it's a 50/50 race. all of us sitting here agree this was always going to be a tight election. it does leave open the possibility if the trump/vance ticket becomes the trump/vance administration, it will likely dismiss this case and you will never hear it. as a journalist, i think voters deserve to be the kind of candidate they are considering and voting for in their totality. then there's the politics of it which is they may never hear this case because trump will not let them hear the case and that's been part of the delay from the trump team. still ahead, we mentioned the upcoming debate between donald trump and harris. we will have donald trump's comments on whether he will even show up for that event and what the rules might be, when we come

right back. ♪ ♪

donald trump now says he will participate in the presidential debate with vice president kamala harris. the former president posted on his social media platform last night that he had come to an agreement with the harris campaign about the rules for the september 10th event, which will be hosted by abc news. trump wrote that the rules will

be the same as his june debate with president biden, meaning the microphones would be muted, and in a statement trump was mocked for letting his handlers overrule him on the issue. what is going on behind the scenes, symone, are they trying to get extra leverage with the mic being cut off seeing how it served him well in the first debate? >> i think it's quite possible prior to the reporting about this in political and other outlets that donald trump was not necessarily aware of the nitty gritty of the negotiations. his team and staff were doing that negotiations with the harris campaign were, and he was probably not, and when he was

asked at the restaurant two days ago if he would like the mics muted, and he said, but, they agreed to what we agreed to before. i would say this post is donald trump trying to box kamala harris in. the whole reason these debates are happening this way and not being voted by the commission of the presidential debates, i do not see the harris campaign acquiescing to donald trump's team's request here. and that's donald trump with his back against the wall. what will he do? buck the staff and buck the system and the mics will be unmuted.

>> yeah. additiony we are learning about an incident that took place before donald trump visited arlington cemetery for a wreath laying. two trump staffers had a confrontation with a employee that tried to keep them from filming. the campaign would be will be to release footage, but an official tried to physically block members of the former president's team during the cemetery. and the arlington national cemetery put out a statement confirming an incident took place and a report was filed. it reads this way, federal law prohibits federal campaigns or political activities to include photographers, consent creators or any other persons attending for purposes or in direct

support of a partisan political candidate's campaign. mike barnicle, the trump campaign attended this event on monday and it was the anniversary of the death of some american service members in afghanistan as part of the evacuation effort three years ago and they are trying to make that a major problem for the biden/harris administration in the context of the campaign. and trump posed for a photographer with family members with a big smile and thumbs up. the family members, that's their right and sits strange donald trump would do the same. and the cemetery was being used as a backdrop for a political purpose. >> jonathan, i looked at the

same pictures you are eluding to now and describing at arlington taken with the former president, and the thought rolled immediately through my mind is nothing sacred. that is sacred ground, and the idea that any candidate of any party would use intentionally or unintentionally use that sacred ground as a prop for a political campaign is beyond condemnation. it's terribly upsetting, obviously, to people who have buried loved ones in the arlington national cemetery. it's upsetting to many veterans and terribly upsetting to people that view it as a spectacle, and it ought to be upsetting to any american that values what the military does for this country worldwide and has for centuries and will continue to do for this

country. >> it comes days after trump suggested the medal of freedom was better than the medal of honor, and trump referred to soldiers as suckers and losers. and coming up, kamala harris heading to battleground georgia today. that's next on "morning joe."

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♪ ♪ welcome back. the trump campaign seems to be embracing a form of voting that its candidate previously called corrupt. the trump team along with the rnc launched a new effort in the battleground state of pennsylvania calling on voters

to cast their ballots by any means necessary, including using mail-in and absentee ballots. the campaign and rnc released a statement on a new initiative on a initiative called swamp the vote. rnc chairman, michael whatley, added as president trump consistently said voting by mail and voting early and on election day are all good options, but just a couple days ago their candidate was expressing a very different message about mail-in voting with dr. phil. >> i know there are other things you are not in favor of, this ballot harvesting and mail-in ballots. >> it's all terrible. it shouldn't be allowed. it's a whole different mind-set. >> but it is. >> you are right.

republicans like to go there on tuesday and vote in person and that has been for a long time, many years, decades, decades. it's a custom, almost. it's a family custom. it's a beautiful thing. the democrats believe a different thing. >> he has done a series of interviews with dr. phil this year. >> yeah. >> and mail-in ballot, that's a fine option but trump can't do it, not only in that interview with dr. phil, but his complaints about mail-in ballots -- this is mixed messaging for a republican at home and there has to be something on the down ballot races. >> yeah, there's mixed messaging, where he says he is okay with having unmuted mics,

and there's probably no real impact of that on voters. this is an impact that will be seen on election day because trump primed his base to be at least skeptical if not out right against of voting early or by mail. the reason that exists is people have more access as their right as an american to vote for who will lead them and republicans in the past have been especially successful with mail-in balloting, and trump hurt himself by trying to erode the system with people having different ways to vote. and he's right, going to the polls on voting day might be a nice family thing. it's one of the things incumbent

on us, these are all valid ways for you to go to the ballot box. it is, though, counter to what the rnc and trump campaign are trying to do in an election of razor-thin margins, this is going to be one of the things could that make a difference. all of us could see a world in which if trump does not do a good job of turning out his base and turns out mail-in voting was good for democrats, and that's something trump will rail against, too, and this lays the brick work for the way americans vote and elect their leaders. >> he, of course, doesn't like mail-in voting for some reason but his campaign corralled him into saying it and now he's back to what it thinks. a candidate that is impossible to get him to stay on message. meanwhile, kamala harris and

walz will embark on a trip to georgia, and it will be the democratic ticket's first trip to the state together. the tour will start in savannah before making stops in southern, more typically red-georgia counties. the trip will culminate in a harris solo campaigning. and harris is going to the areas of the state where if you run up the numbers in the red counties you can afford to lose some in the bluer counties. >> that's exactly right. these are areas that democratic presidential contenders hardly visit even back when georgia was

more competitive than it was 10 or 15 years ago. now they are visiting it. this is part -- i am in the savannah area right now, and democratic candidates hardly ever visit here. the campaign is clear and they don't think they will win some of the deep red parts around savannah, just a few miles from here, but they think they can cut into the republican margins and if you shave those republican march sreupbz by 2, 3, 4%, it can start to accumulate. president biden proved that in 2020. >> i am wondering about the impact -- do you see shades of what senator warnock did in his campaign and campaigning throughout georgia especially in rule georgia in places where, yes, there are white voters, there are black and latino voters in some of the rural

areas as well. they usually don't get a lot of attention from democrats? >> exactly right. it's a tricky two-step the vice president is trying to pull off. she's trying to recharge the base and reach out to swing voters, and they are not just in the suburbs, and they are in the metro atlantic suburbs, and in georgia, there's not as many of them, swing voters, independent, you name it, and they are open to that message and i think you might see that today. she could go to majority black ruled counties, and could target more majority white ruled counties that have eventually gone deep red. >> and it has been well chronicled that donald trump attacked the governor and he has gone after the secretary of state, up and down the ballot,

and of late trump tried, at least for now to play nice and make up a little bit with kemp. how is that being received in georgia? how is kemp going to campaign, if he will, for trump? how will republicans -- do they think it will work and mend fences to put this state in trump's column? >> and in a word how it has been received, skepticism. it's a house of cards. they can fall at any moment. the former president could rattle off another tweet like he did before his rally in atlanta a couple weeks ago. governor kemp, he didn't start the fight and doesn't want part of it and it's not something he wakes up thinking about, but donald trump still blames him for the 2020 defeat. he's going after the most popular politician in georgia, and it's somebody he needs in

his corner to win. so to reach out of the swing voters, and many of those that voted for warnock were republican. >> thank you, greg, as always for your insights there. we appreciate it. ali vitali, before you go, give us a sense as to your final thoughts here on georgia, which as noted, it's a state that would be hard for trump to get to 270, not impossible, but hard, and now the harris team feels like it's really in play? >> really in play, and you see that because that's where the ticket is spending crucial days before election day. what i think about in georgia is twofold. first, the thing you are bringing up here is the ongoing feud with kemp doesn't help trump but extends to the idea that people who are kemp-style republicans in georgia are probably more in the republican fashion of somebody like nikki haley, and it brings up the

issue of why the trump campaign is not doing sufficient outreach in the form of many haley supporters to get those voters back in the fold, and we have seen the harris/walz ticket trying to get those who are trump skepticals or naysayers, and that's why somebody like adam kinzinger in a primetime slot could be so impactful. and there's the larger idea of how women in the suburbs are going to play. that, of course, will cut along racial lines and specifically the idea of how the harris/walz campaign will try to appeal to white women who may have a tendency of voting conservative but also have concern about trump at the top of the ticket. those are the voters i have been meeting with for years, and the harris and walz campaign are focused on that.

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commander says 30,000 russian troops have been pulled from the battlefield in the south to defend against ukraine's incursion into russia. he made the comments yesterday while claiming his forces captured 100 russian settlements since this counter offensive began, however he warned that moscow is building up its own forces in ukraine's east where russian troops are advancing. all of this comes as moscow continues to shell cities throughout ukraine. president zelenskyy revealed this week that f-16s were used to shoot down russian missiles, and it's a complicated

situation. >> such a bold offensive by the ukrainian forces. now we see what will happen next. meanwhile in the middle east, israeli forces carried out large raids in the west. israel's foreign minister posted overnight on social media. joining us now, former supremed allied navy admiral, the chief international analyst for nbc news. admiral, so good to see you this morning. let's start with the middle east. what is your read on what israel is trying to do in the west bank? >> yeah, let's level set for a minute. we tend to talk a lot about hezbollah to the north, hamas and gaza strip and the houthis on the red sea. those are three distinct fronts

for the israelis, and here we are seeing them in the west bank which has been relatively quiet. but an operation where they kill ten palestinians, let's say, and that would be like the feds going into new mexico and killing 350 terrorists. this is a significant operation by those standards and it shows you israel is fighting a war on multiple fronts. >> what is the risk that could inflame the situation further? is the west bank different than gaza? also, the negotiators are in cairo as we speak trying to hammer out this deal -- a cease-fire deal that would lead to the release of more hostages. we know one had been rescued in the last day or so and they are not at the finish line of the negotiations and it seems every time they get close there's more violence that causes a setback.

>> yeah, everything that has is happening in the west bank is going to have a chilly affect, shall we say. iran is lurking back and preparing, perhaps, to retaliate of the assassination of the leader of hamas carried out a few weeks ago. this situation is in flux to say the least, and they believe iran is foremeanting unrest there. >> mike barnicle, we know the biden administration has been pushing to get this done but the highest ranking government has concerns about this. >> yeah, that's one of the key obstacles, it seems, to any cease-fire agreement. but admiral, this morning, as we

are talking now, there are two carrier strike force groups in the mediterranean, and there are a total of 18 warships in the mediterranean and submarines in the mediterranean and enough tomahawk missiles to level half of the middle east and you have israeli fighting in the west bank and gaza is an open furnace destroyed from stem to stern. the israeli government, parts of its cabinet seem to be actively opposing any move for a cease-fire or a peace agreement and a recognition of a palestinian state. my question to you, with all of this on the table is, if, indeed, there were a peace agreement to establish a palestinian state, what would the geography of such a palestinian state look like? >> wonderful question. i think the conventional answer would be it would include both the west bank where israel is,

as we talked a moment ago, conducting counter terrorists operations directed towards the west bank and gaza strip. and gaza was destroyed from stem to stern. it really is. it will have to be rebuilt. the good news is that's not a requirement to boil the ocean to do that. it's a relatively small space. 2 million people. significant, but could you rebuild it with saudi money, u.s. support, other arab states, the uae pitching in. i think you could, mike. the challenge is not the geography, but the challenge is the governance. here israel, i think correctly, is adamant that hamas will not

have a role in that going forward, and that will cause the authority in the west bank to step up and you will need a new generation of leadership there. final thought, you mentioned the carrier strike groups and alongside them, by the way, are u.s. marines who are embarked in big navel vessels, and those marines are there to not conduct ground combat operations but for evacuations of americans if necessary. so yes, there's a lot of american firepower there. it's designed to send a signal to iran, not to get involved in this at this, as you point out correctly, mike, very difficult moment. coming up, guests says that donald trump's evangelical supporters just lost their best excuse for standing by the former president. the atlantic's pete wehner joins us ahead to explain. we will be right back. us ahead to explain. we will be right back.

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time now for a quick look at some of the morning papers from across the country. the arc democrat gazette leads with a deadly crash involving multiple tractor-trailers that caused a portion of a major highway to close almost 17 hours. according to police a grass fire causing low visibility led to three 18-wheelers colliding, killing one of the drivers. one truck was a military vehicle carrying explosive devices, crews were brought in for a lengthy evacuation of the highway and the devices were removed. to alaska now, the anchorage daily news is covering the cleanup efforts from the devastating landslide in southeast alaska on monday that killed one person and injured three others. officials say land detached from a nearby hillside after a period of unusually heavy rain and then slid into a town of almost 14,000, leveling several homes and businesses, as well as cutting off power.

crews are racing to clean up the scene before more expected storms hit the area, which they fear may trigger further slides. and an update on a story we brought you yesterday, "the boston globe" reports that a new hampshire resident has died from the eastern he can combine encephalitis illness, the first death from that illness in the state for years. triple e is a very rare but deadly virus spread by mosquitos. ten communities in massachusetts have been deemed critical or high risk for the virus with several towns announcing nighttime park closures and advising residents to limit outside exposure from dusk to dawn when mosquitos are most ak cat. to wisconsin where the green bay gazette is highlighting quarterback jordan love and his love for cleats campaign. for every touchdown that love runs or throws during the upcoming nfl season he will donate new nike cleats to an entire school football team in the state of wisconsin.

all k through 12 schools in the state can apply to receive cleats through the hands of love foundation website and they will be selected based on the level of need. love one of the bright young stars in the league. very nice gesture there. coming up, we will be joined by national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign mitch landrieu as the harris campaign is about to kick off a busy labor day weekend of campaigning. "morning joe" back in just a moment. "morning joe" back in just a moment. "mning joe" back in justa moment why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i sleep great now that my side is as firm as my heart desires. my heart desires soft. sleep number does that. your ideal firmness and effortless comfort, all night. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

my name is the most neglected part of home ownership is the gutters. it's personal for me. >> 100% agree. >> i have had problems with gutters before, you get your basement wet, ice dams, they cause a lot of problems. >> it's not good. >> no, it's not. but there are fixes. the other dangerous thing, when you live in minnesota, fall is a great time of year. >> the leaves get stuck in a gutter. i've seen many a man fall off the gutter. >> there is a fix, you can put a

gutter helmet off of it. it covers it and keeps the water out of your house. >> how often do you like looking at gutters? >> i look quite often. >> you're inspecting. >> i try not to be judgmental, but when you see a well maintained gutter -- >> where do you buy your gutters. >> menard's. ♪ save big money at menard's ♪♪ that is democratic vice presidential nominee tim walz with his hot take on gutters and, katty, gutter helmets. >> excuse me, by the way, a lot of women have ladders to fix gutters, too. i was up the other weekend putting the helmet on my gutters in virginia making sure the leaves don't fall in. tim walz, you missed something there. >> katty, you did indeed point out a flaw perhaps. but certainly this is -- and

singing the theme song at the end -- i mean, this is part of the appeal in coach walz as they refer to him in the campaign that they feel like he's -- he's a regular guy who is going to appeal to regular voters, particularly in areas that maybe have not voted democrat in a while. >> yeah. and particularly, you know, the one area that they are struggling with, younger male, lower-educated voters perhaps without a college degree. that seems to be an area where donald trump is doing very well. walz definitely campaigning for those voters, trying to peel some of those away from donald trump. >> and some older voters, too, where they plan to deploy president biden, including on labor day, that will be their first joint campaign appearance, harris/biden in pittsburgh. it's just past 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. i'm jonathan lemire, that's katty kay, we are in for joe, mika and willie.

the special counsel overseeing the 2020 election interference case against former president trump filed a revised indictment against him yesterday, coming after last month's supreme court ruling on presidential immunity. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake brings us the details. >> reporter: donald trump face ago renewed legal battle this morning with special counsel jack smith filing a superseding indictment against the former president over his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. while the original charges remain smith narrowed and revised his allegations against the former president, removing references to anything that might be considered official acts during his time in office. online mr. trump calling it the persecution of a political opponent. he has already employed not guilty to all of the charges. the new indictment comes on the heels of last month's bombshell ruling by the supreme court that found presidents enjoy broad immunity for official acts. >> i'm immune from all of the stuff that they charged me with.

>> reporter: justice ketanji brown jackson among those who dissented, discussing the ruling in a new interview with cbs news. >> i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances. >> reporter: the new indictment access mr. trump of using his campaign to spread lies that he knew were false, to create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, that includes a now infamous mr. trump made to georgia's secretary of state after losing the state to joe biden. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes. >> reporter: uncertifying the election results, the special counsel refers to former vice president pence as acting in his role as president of the senate, writing, mr. trump had, quote, no official responsibilities, but did have a personal interest. and alleging he attempted to use a crowd of supporters on january 6th to pressure the vice

president to fraudulently alter the election results. >> we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you are not going to have a country anymore. >> reporter: also this morning nbc news has reviewed newly released video shot by nancy pelosi's daughter in the hours after the january 6th attack that hbo recently turned over to congress. the house speaker blasting mr. trump. >> he take an oath to protect our country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. there is a domestic enemy in the white house. >> our thanks to garrett haake. joining us now we have former assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos and alexei mchammon, also the host of "in synch with alexei" with launches on september 15th. glen, i will begin with you. let's talk about what jack smith did yesterday with this new revised indictment, sort of

narrowing it in scope. give us your analysis as to why he did that. what are the goals he's trying to accomplish here? >> jonathan, it's interesting, i think so many of us were waiting to see which of the four felony charges indicted by the first grand jury would survive the supreme court's presidential immunity ruling. i think i for one thought we would get the first answer to that question when judge chutkan held hearings and went through each act that was alleged by donald trump in the indictment and ruled, official, not official. it enjoys immunity, it doesn't enjoy immunity. and that would be litigated in the courts here in d.c. but jack smith decided to go proactive. he said, no, i'm going to go out, i'm going to pull out of the original indictment anything that i think might run afoul of the new supreme court presidential immunity ruling. he pared the indictment down from 45 pages to 36 pages and i

think the good news for accountability is at least in the estimation of jack smith and his team, he believes all four felony charges that were originally indicted against donald trump survive the supreme court's ruling. of course, judge chutkan will now step in, will hold hearings and we will see whether jack smith was right in his assessment or not. >> danny, i know you believe this was smart legal strategy here by smith and his team, but walk us through what happens next. what are the next -- what are the subsequent steps they are that are going to occur along what has become a slow legal journey? >> normally a superseding indictment is something that strikes fear into the heart of a criminal attorney like me. it means they've found more bad evidence and are charging new crimes. it's rare that you have a superseding indictment that reduces information. a lot of people are calling this

pared down or a slimmed down version of the indictment. not to me. ultimately the only thing i care about is the counts and all four counts remain. that means if the defendant is convicted the sentencing guidelines will be exactly the same. all jack smith's team has done is taken a look at the indictment and said what should we remove that insulates us? and, yes, they removed references to trump's attempts to subvert the doj and maybe install a new acting attorney general, but they keep in language about vice president pence, which signals to me that jack smith's team is feeling very confident they've kept all four counts and they're keeping in conduct and the mike pence conduct is significant because the supreme court suggested that this at least was entitled to the presumption of immunity. so jack smith is signaling that even conduct that may be entitled to a presumption of immunity, it is full steam ahead. they are not afraid of the district court and any possible

hearing. they are going forward with these counts. so as much as, yes, this indictment has been, i guess, reduced in length, everything that matters is still in it. this is a strategic, i think a very brilliant move to keep this indictment alive, to head off any problems at the pass before judge chutkan has to hold a hearing. making, i think, her job even easier. >> okay. so it may be a while before we understand the total legal ramifications of this, alexei, but let's talk a little bit about the politics. you had donald trump in a series of truth socials last night lambasing this, again, painting himself as the victim of a deep state judicial witch-hunt. how much impact and sympathy for that line of argument is there out there? do we have any polling on that and on the counter side to that, what do we know from the data on the legal cases against donald trump are polling? democrats had gone into this

election campaign thinking that would be a big advantage for them. >> yeah, you know, the polling has shown that it hasn't totally damaged his campaign this entire cycle in the way that democrats had hoped or maybe even anticipated. trump as we know well can spin himself out of anything and everything, but i think a number of things have changed in the way that he has talked about his legal troubles recently. i mean, he was on a podcast with theo vaughan the other day and instead of saying i won the 2020 election like he always does he was careful and he said we did much better in 2020 than we did in 2016 and i'm very proud of that. that to me was a signal that donald trump knows that his spin is no longer working with the american people. that he is a victim of the deep state and all of these other things. on his twitter spaces with elon musk the other night he said if he loses the election he will have to flee the country and go to venezuela. that is another acknowledgment that his spin is no longer working with the american people or with the government and legal system that he's simply a victim of all of these things. >> the trump campaign is putting

a lot of money into certification efforts, not so much into get out the vote efforts, but they are already preparing themselves, and you can see some of that in his truth socials as well, preparing themselves for a very tight election or one in which they are narrowly behind and that they will contest it. >> i think what is important, though, going back to the 2022 midterms. i covered governor's races extensively, secretaries of state as well. a lot of republicans and election deniers and folks who promised not to certify the election results in their state if it didn't go donald trump's way those folks lost by and large across the board. i think whatever donald trump's campaign wants to do now it's running up against the block that these people are not in power in the states he needs them to be in. >> glen, i want to go to you with a question. there had been talk about jack smith potentially trying to conduct a mini trial, a so-called mini trial where a lot of the evidence would be presented in public domain. even though this january 6 case wouldn't go before a jury before election day, but it would be

sort of out there for voters to consider. do you think what happened yesterday will impact that decision on whether or not he will do it and do you think he should? >> great question. prosecutors always like to hold their cards close to the vest. when i was prosecuting cases i had to litigate some issues, for example, in motions to suppress evidence or statements by the defendant, but, you know, we want to be pretty stingy and pretty careful about the evidence that we lay out. why? because at that point we're showing our cards and the defense will be all the better prepared to actually meet the force of the evidence during the trial proper and cross-examine the government's witnesses more effectively. so i have a feeling given that there is no chance this case will go to trial before the election, jack smith may pull back and this may have been step one in him pulling back, issuing this new indictment, and they may do the entire thing by what we call proffer.

in other words, not putting on the stand the witnesses, many republican witnesses, who were presented to the grand jury to testify about the alleged crimes of donald trump. not put those witnesses on, but do it all by proffer. in other words, just make arguments. say, you know, your honor, the prosecutors expect the evidence to show the following. we don't think it's an official act, we don't think it enjoys immunity and then donald trump's lawyers will have the opportunity to litigate that issue and argue the contrary position. so i have a feeling that is what might be coming in judge chutkan's courtroom in the near future. >> danny, the four cases facing donald trump, we just talked about this one, certainly not going to happen before the election. the mar-a-lago classified documents case has been thrown out at least for now. the georgia case is -- it's unclear where that stands. >> mired is the word i would use. >> precisely right. but new york city, that happened. he was convicted and now we have a sentencing coming up in just a couple of weeks. now, of course, it comes against the backdrop of the supreme

court ruling about presidential immunity. do you anticipate the sentencing will go on as scheduled? how do you see this playing out in the next couple weeks? >> yes, even the new york case which resulted in a conviction may have an asterisk because it could go away, too. theoretically. justice merchan could conclude that the immunity decision -- it sounds crazy to think that the conduct alleged in the new york hush money case, reimbursing michael cohen for hush money payments he made to a porn star mostly before he was in the white house, he wrote the checks actually in the white house, but that was the tail end -- it's really surprising to think that this could have anything to do with core presidential functions, and yet arguably possibly the evidence that came in from people who worked in the white house at the time, hope hicks, for example, that could be something that threatens this case. so could this sentencing go forward? it may just be the case that

justice merchan says the immunity has nothing to do with this case, everything moves forward and you move forward to sentencing. in the new york case sentencing -- people should be prepared. i don't believe it's likely that donald trump will get a sentence of incarceration for a number of reasons. first-time offender, his age, these are the lowest level felonies, these are i guess you could say barely felonies in new york. i think any comparable defendant could expect a sentence that doesn't involve prison, but, who knows? donald trump is not an ordinary defendant and in a way maybe no other defendant in history has done, he annoyed the heck out of the judge throughout the trial and believe it or not that does factor in. so the chances that the sentencing will go forward, completely as planned, hard to say. this is -- when it comes to donald trump, you take all the normal things you know about schedules and procedure, you ball them up and you throw them right out the window. >> msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you, and for that imagery. and former assistant u.s.

attorney for the district of columbia, glenn kirschner, thank you as well. katty, that sentencing in new york scheduled to happen just a few days after donald trump and kamala harris are set to square off in their first debate. >> yeah, which is also set to happen and scheduled to happen, but is it actually going to happen and under what format? because donald trump now says he will participate in the presidential debate with vice president kamala harris. the former president posted on his social media platform last night that he had come to an agreement with the harris campaign about the rules for the september 10th event, which is going to be hosted by abc news. trump wrote that the rules will be the same as his june debate with president biden, meaning that the microphones would be muted while the other candidate is speaking, but the harris campaign then pushed back, saying that negotiations on the mics are ongoing, and in a statement mocked trump for letting his handlers overrule

him on this issue. in a new editorial the editorial board of the st. louis post dispatch writes in part it's worth noting that the whole notion of microphone cutoffs during debates while not invented under trump has been popularized due to his bully style. the trump campaign's sudden insistence on having its own guy be cut off mid rand on the debate stage shunned go unnoticed. the fact that the whole country has gotten used to trump's temperamental instability is dangerous enough, but this is an indication that even his own people know that his instability is getting worse. alexis, debate about the debate. my sense is that it's going to happen and probably they will end up with the rules that they had already agreed to. why do you think the harris campaign is pushing back, trying

to push as much as they can to say we want the mics to be on. >> i think that kamala harris wants to show trump that she is a strong and formidable challenger to him and they have shown throughout their short campaign that they will mock him relentlessly and try to call him out. he tries to act like this tough guy who is always in control and who makes decisions at the end of the day but he's flailing, he is not in control. i do think the one thing that's worth mentioning is that the commission on presidential debates which usually organizes these debates, they are the reason why we haven't had these ongoing debates about debates for a long time. >> it was the body organizing the rules. >> now it's left up to trump and kamala harris and he said/she said. but trump is so erratic that it would not make sense for him to have the mics be on the entire time, it would make the debates not worthwhile for anyone but it would show americans that contrast that i know the kamala harris campaign wants to continue to paint. even trump knows he needs a little bit of restraint this time around. >> watch this debate stage and

we will see if more comes out of this. jonathan, before we go to break today is a very important anniversary, we've been talking about scandals, yes, there are lots of scandals but none compare to the scandal of ten years ago when on august 28, 2014 barack obama had the audacity to turn up to work in front of the press in, guess what -- >> a tan suit. and we will have complete coverage of this important anniversary a little later in the show. >> yeah. >> the after shocks of that moment still with us to this very day, a decade later. you won't want to miss that. next up here, taylor swift, she's yet to make a presidential endorsement but her fan base certainly isn't waiting for the pop icon. the swifties for kamala coalition kicked off with a call last night and it included one legendary rock & roll hall of famer. we will tell you who that was and play for you the swift song that she covered when "morning joe" comes right back. that she covered when "morning joe" comes right back.

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so you can be there for your customers. with comcast business, reliability isn't just possible. it's happening. switch to reliable comcast business internet with security and get started for $49.99 a month. plus ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. call today! taylor inducted me into the rock & roll hall of fame and she sang my song "will you love me tomorrow" so i have to go "players gonna play, play, play, play ♪" ♪ haters gonna hate, hate, hate ♪ ♪ baby, i'm just going to shake, shake, shake ♪ ♪ i shake it off, i shake it off ♪♪ that was music legend carole king covering some taylor swift as you just heard during a swifties for kamala fundraising call last night. the event was not organized by the harris campaign or swift's team but it comes after other groups held similar calls including white dudes for

harris, dead heads for harris and cat ladies for kamala. proud swiftie and democratic congressman chris deluzio of pennsylvania was also on that call last night. congressman, i will ask you not to sing, but we are grateful that you are here. tell us just about this organizing effort and how it represents this sort of growing excitement on the grassroots level for the democrats' new nominee. >> jonathan, good to see you. thanks for not asking me to sing, i think you would lose some viewers fast. look, the call was fun but also serious, you had more than 30,000 folks come on, committed to doing organizing work. there was a lot of fun but there was a lot of joy. i think it tells you something about our politics. you have to meet folks where they are and give them something to believe in, some reason to have joy and happiness of doing the hard work of politics. i saw it on the call, they had a great time and stepped up to do some things to help democrats win up and down the ticket.

it was a fun and inspiring event. >> congressman, good morning, it's alexi mccammond. it sounds like it was a fun call. i'm wondering if you can share for us how you think the harris campaign can turn this into something longer lasting than just a moment with the swifties especially after we saw the trump campaign put out that fake ai endorsement from taylor swift. >> it helps when you are a candidate of a party who believes in people's freedom, who believe that women should make their own choices about their pregnancies and health and families and when you are fighting to bring down costs on corporate price gougers. look, you have to embrace when there's enthusiasm and there is right now. i heard it in the intro to this interview about not just swifties for kamala, but white dudes and dead heads and whoever else. you know, where there's organizing energy you have to embrace it and give people the

resources to do it and to drive that enthusiasm to turn it into action, making calls, texts, door knocking, all the things that go into the hard work of winning elections and i think this campaign and mine and others are doing exactly that. >> congressman, you appeared with the vice president and tim walz at an event earlier this month. she's going to be back in pennsylvania on labor day, i'm sure she will be there again and again and again. when you speak to the harris campaign what's your advice to them about which parts of the state to target and how to reach people who aren't just in urban areas who may be leaning democratic already? >> well, i have the great privilege of representing western pennsylvania, i've been clear, i think they have to spend time in western pennsylvania, you saw them there about a week or so ago and we were in the west hills of allegheny county in beaver county. these are places where democrats, republicans compete for votes and you saw governor walz and vice president harris join me, senator casey and

others. it shows they understand they have to work to earn those votes. i'm going to keep doing that in my district but it's nice to see the top of the ticket listen and look for votes in western pennsylvania where frankly we're fighting hard to take on corporate price gouging, stand up for our freedom. those are messages that can win in western pa and nice to see the top of the ticket understand that. >> you need to hit shots sheetz and primanti brothers and they did both. thank you for joining us this morning. turning to business, while august has been a pretty volatile month for the markets, viewers of "morning joe" were cautioned early on not to panic. >> the futures are tumbling this morning. there's been a massive global selloff. my gosh -- i will say, though, again, everybody needs to take a deep breath. you need to think back to covid where the market would spike. >> yes. >> it would plummet, it would

spike, it would plummet. today is going to be a bad day for the market, but, again, it's -- andrew, we've got to go, but, again, every investment professional would tell you if you are in the market -- >> hold tight. two or three weeks ago, and give credit to joe scarborough, he said when the markets were tanking if you are there was a sense, oh, there a recession coming? we had seen those unemployment numbers and people got very, very anxious. if you look at where the markets are today, we were almost back to where we were before and i think this number is going to give a lot of people a sense that actually we might even be still in a bit of an expansion. >> some wise words from joe scarborough. let's bring in nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans. what are the latest key indicators currently saying about america's economic outlook? >> august was a month to remind you when the markets freak out you buy stocks or you hold steady because you don't really bet against the u.s. economy and

the u.s. stock market in the long term. what we're seeing building on what andrew was saying about the retail sales number that was so strong, we're seeing consumer confidence at a six-month high. still a mixed outlook but improving. inflation expectations are improving as well. and you've got an economy that feels as though it might just actually have that so called soft landing. the fed can kill inflation without, you know, really hurting the economy. the new phase will be the if he had -- fed starting to cut interest rates. you could see volatility heading into the fall, there's an uncertainty about how much and how quickly, but already you have mortgage rates down almost a point from last year, some mortgage refinancing has picked up. there is a lot of excitement in the economy and some improvement as we move forward here, the big test will be has the fed managed to put inflation in the rearview mirror without hurting the overall economy. so far all signs point to yes, but it's not for sure.

>> and anticipated that rates will be cut in september but of course we don't exactly know how much or precisely when. you mentioned mortgage rates falling. let's talk about housing, which for so many americans, particularly americans just starting off trying to buy their first house it's become impossible because it's so expensive and because there's not enough stock. vice president harris has put forth a new housing plan. give us your analysis. >> so the housing market has really been where the bulk of those rate increases has just frozen it. also you just don't have enough supply. so young people, first-time home buyers really don't have a leg in here. in most zip codes the typical earner can't afford the typically priced home. that's a real problem. you've heard from the biden administration -- or from the kamala harris campaign what she would like to do. incentivizing building more homes, also incentivizing people to help pay for them. mortgage rates start to decline we will get a better sense of

how things are going to thw. will there be a better chance to get into this hogs market? record high home prices yesterday, the case-shiller number, i mean, some neighborhoods especially around here n connecticut, on the west coast around chicago, just unattainable home prices. that's great if you are living in that house, but it's locked up for now. >> extraordinarily expensive. nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans, thank you for being with us this morning here on "morning joe." coming up next, we will have -- dig into the ew atlantic piece that argues that evangelical just lost their best excuse for backing him. evangelical just lost their best excuse for backing him ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story.

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"atlantic". i think the abortion issue

has been taken down many notches. i don't think it's -- i don't think it's a big factor anymore really. now the states are voting and, frankly, some of the votes are much more if you could say liberal than you would think. ohio turned out to be -- they had a big vote and it turned out to be a much more liberal standing than people would have thought. so that was former president donald trump earlier this month weighing in on the subject of abortion. his latest position on the issue is, though, causing some evangelicals to question their support of the republican presidential nominee. case in point, north carolina pastor ben marsh posted on social media, people who did not grow up in evangelical political spaces have no idea how disorienting it is to be told for 30 years, a, you could not vote for a morally bad person, b, you had to vote for a pro-life candidate only now to be told you have to vote for a pro choice felon.

joining us now contributing writer for "the atlantic" peter wehner, thank you for joining us. peter, okay, so recently on truth social donald trump said my administration will be great for women and their reproductive rights. my immediate thought was what will evangelical supporters think about that. are you seeing any indication that evangelical supporters might not actually -- might actually now switch their vote to vote for a democrat or is it more that they're just disgruntled and will carry on voting for donald trump anyway? >> yeah, i don't think that they're going to vote for kamala harris and i don't think they're not going to vote for donald trump. and the reason i don't is because i think that they've basically been exposed, at least a lot of people in the movement, that they are not nearly as pro-life as they said that they were, and that what matters to them more is the partisan identity. they have fused, their identity is fused with donald trump and

fusing with donald trump means fusing with his moral depravity and i don't think they are going to move. this is a cult-like movement that we are seeing and a lot of the white evangelical movement is part of that cult. >> peter, let's drill on that a little further. it seems like for these evangelicals who as you correctly say would never have dreamed in early 2015 of supporting someone like donald trump but he gave them the three supreme court justices that overturned roe v. wade, seems like for so many they are along for the ride no matter where that goes. do you see anything creating a fissure there or are evangelicals -- and that includes with the republican party, when donald trump leaves the scene, whenever that may be, where do they go then? >> yeah, i don't see any fissures between now and the election. the hold that donald trump has on the base of the party and among white evangelicals is extraordinary. it's comparable or potentially even greater than ronald reagan. so that's not going to change. if and when donald trump leaves the scene, what's going to

happen, i think it's hard to say. i think trump's imprint on the party is profound and we're probably looking at a generation long effect. you know, what will happen with the pro-life movement, i don't know. when trump leaves, i think they're going to go back to their pro-life views, but we will have had a kind of moral and ethical cat scan during this election by which i mean that trump in a sense revealed what was underneath a lot of the attitudes of a lot of people who claim to be conservative and traditional republicans, and it turns out that a lot of it was a fiction, a lot of it was an illusion. so there is a lot of hypocrisy and i think that there will be a comeuppance that will happen because of this. >> alexi, it's pretty obvious what donald trump is trying to do here, he's trying to kind of take the sting out of the

overturning of roe v. wade when he writes things like, you know, he's going to be great for reproductive rights, but how much does that actually convince -- do we know how much it will convince wavering voters that he's not about to enforce or support a national ban or do all the things that project 2025 seems to be what they like to do. >> the facts do not help trump. they are never on his side and that's why he skips over them every time. it is absurd for him to write something like he would protect women and our reproductive rights. he has gone against them. even his most liberal stance on abortion is still bad for women. the truth of the matter is his running mate, j.d. vance, wants to control women's bodies as much as he possibly can. there is no daylight between trump, j.d. vance, project 2025 and the most anti-woman conservatives out there no matter what he puts on truth social. >> peter, what's your reading on the issue of reproductive rights specifically when it comes to the evangelical community?

we know that it's going to be a motivator for democrats. is there going to be a sort of comparison motivator on the right, which is we are going to try and elect people who we hope will enforce some kind of national ban or propose a national ban even if they're saying at the moment that they won't because we believe when they get there they may do. >> that's a good question. in the past it's been basically a draw in terms of pro choice -- pro-life movement being motivated. in this case clearly the pro choice movement has a political motivation. the dobbs decision changed everything. we've seen kansas and kentucky which are red states turn aside pro-life initiatives and the pro-life community is dispirited, both because they see the public opinion is shifting strong against them, but also this betrayal of donald trump. it doesn't hurt, they're going to stick with him, but it does despirit them. they are the latest movement

that's been betrayed by donald trump. betrayal has been a through line through donald trump's entire life. the fact that he betrays people and causes is not news. the important thing is that a lot of republicans and so-called conservatives and pro lifers, they are the ones that are being exposed, that's the thing that i think needs to be drilled home. >> pete wehner, thank you for joining us this morning. the new piece is for "the atlantic," trump's evangelical supporters just lost their best excuse and it's online now. still ahead for you, we will play the new campaign ad linking donald trump to project 2025 and we will be joined by the national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign, mitch landrieu, as the campaign kicks off a bus tour today in the battleground state of georgia. "morning joe" is coming right back. te of georgia. "morng joe" is coming right back

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go after them. >> complete control. >> i will wield that power very aggressively. >> and he has a plan to get it. >> detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do. >> it's called project 2025, a 922-page blueprint to make donald trump the most powerful president ever. overhauling the department of justice, giving trump the unchecked power to seek vengeance, eliminating the department of education and defunding k through 12 schools, requiring the government to monitor women's pregnancies and severe cuts to medicare and social security. donald trump may try to deny it, but those are donald trump's plans. >> well, revenge does take time, i will say that, and sometimes revenge can be justified. >> he will take control, we will pay the price. >> i'm kamala harris and i approved this message. that was a new ad from the harris/walz campaign criticizing project 2025 and attempt to go

make a clear link between former president trump and the conservative blueprint. joining us now is the national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign, mitch landrieu. thank you for joining us this morning. so of course donald trump has distanced himself from project 2025. it did feature heavily in chicago at the dnc. what's your data, what's your polling on how much the american public understands about this project, how much they know about it and how much it might influence their vote? >> well, first of all, they understand donald trump, they don't believe a word that's coming out of his mouth as governor walz said you don't really create a plan unless you intend on using t it's what's in the plan that matters that basically confirms that this race is between two big ideas, one of them is for a guy that thinks about himself, rich billionaires, and getting the power and the control to exert grievance over everybody that he disagrees with, and project 2025 gives him the power to do that from reorganizing the department

of justice to go after his enemies to monitoring women's pregnancies. or you can have kamala harris who wakes up every day thinking about the american people, trying to create opportunities, reducing people's costs and actually trying to lift us up for a new way forward. that's the choice that we have. project 2025 gives you a roadmap to where donald trump is absolutely heading. >> so we came out of chicago with an enormous amount of enthusiasm, unity, the word joy being thrown around an awful lot and a lot of money raised by the vice president. we've seen the polls move, but not perhaps as much as the enthusiasm might suggest. at the moment the candidates are neck and neck in most of the swing states. when would you expect to see more of a poll movement given the kind of shift in, i think the word of the summer is vibe, in the democratic team? >> well, first of all, the excitement has been incredible. every day that kamala harris has been the candidate we have won the election every day. you have to continue to build on

that. you can see that she's come from a position of being behind to moving, you know, fairly significantly even. we never thought that this was going to be a blowout race, it's always going to be close which is why we organized the campaign around institutional organizations in the battleground states that matter the most. we expect this race to be close until the last day, but we're built for it and we're ready to go in. as you see the vice president and governor walz are heading to the great state of georgia to continue to campaign. i think they've made two rounds of the battleground states and will continue to do that every day. >> it's alexi mccammond, you're of course great of talking about infrastructure and making that connect with voters and making sure they really understand the investments that biden/harris have made on that front. how do you do the same thing with project 2025 and in what swing states do you anticipate talk being project 2025 could have the most impact with voters? >> well, again, the big idea here is that donald trump is all for himself all the time.

he wants grievance and he wants the power. he has now gotten the supreme court to treat him differently than any other human being and now project 2025 helps him close the gap on being able to do the things that he said that they were going to do in the end. so we will be telling people this, of course, everywhere that we go, but the american public doesn't need much more evidence, for example, that donald trump does not respect women from his accusations of sexual abuse to rape to now having a vice presidential candidate that basically thinks that women that don't have children shouldn't have anything to say about anything and now efficiently can't even teach kids in class. i think women in america have a pretty good idea about who is on their side. kamala harris is, she will continue to fight for them. project 2025 actually wants to give him the power to monitor women's pregnancies and if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, i don't think anything will. >> i want to get your reaction to the harris campaign's reaction to a story we were talking about earlier in this show and that is officials at arlington national cemetery say that they were bullied,

intimidated, there was an altercation with some trump campaign officials when he was there monday and attempting to film portions of what he was doing there. there's been an outcry that he is perhaps using the nation's most sacred space as backdrop for political purposes. what does the campaign have to say about this? >> well, i think the only thing you can say about it based on the comments of his chief of staff, john kelly, is that it's not a surprise to anybody that he disrespects veterans. he called -- he called them losers. i mean, this story has been covered many, many, many times. nothing donald trump does in this space should really kind of surprise anybody. he's done it again and again and it's just, you know, sad. >> mr. mayor, lastly, donald trump last night said that terms were agreed to for the first debate september 10th between himself and the vice president, can you update that? has the harris campaign also signed off on this? >> you know, i find it so interesting that what we're fighting about the fact that his own team wants to shut him up.

i don't know if i've ever heard that before in the debates and the rules of the debates. look, the microphones stay on people are going to hear what he says, if they stay off he's going to yell and scream anyway, he is an uncontrollable guy, he is unhinged. i heard that he just went on tv with dr. phil and claims that he won the california election, although he lost by 5 million votes. this is a delusional guy and rather than talking about the microphones, we ought to continue to talk about the fact that donald trump evidently does not see reality and that's really kind of a critical part because some people want to give him the power of the presidency so that he can use it in a way that's going to hurt the american people and we're not going to let that happen. >> and vice president harris and her running mate on the road in georgia today. national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign, mitch landrieu, thank you for joining us this morning. >> great to be with you, thank you. as we wrap things up, as we hinted earlier, exactly ten years ago today the world was rocked by a political scandal of simply epic proportions.

"the daily show" brings us back to that harrowing day. >> the president came out addressing reporters on thursday and he was wearing this tan suit. >> tan suit. >> tan suit. >> president obama's decision to wear a light tan suit at yesterday's news conference -- >> he was wearing a tan suit. >> light tan suit. >> i think it was shocking to a lot of people. is this an effort to make him look warmer? ♪♪ >> there is no way i think any of us can excuse what the president did yesterday. i mean, for him to walk out -- i'm not trying to be trivial here -- but in a light suit, a tan suit -- >> also known as tan-gate. >> tan suit and how the tan suit made him look unpresidential. >> whoever talked him into going into a tan suit, they are so desperate because of the low

poll numbers they're willing to do anything. ♪♪ >> the tan suit made him look unpresidential. >> ten years later, we are still recovering from that moment. >> oh, my god. >> on that note, that does it for us this morning. "morning joe" will be back tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern, perhaps i will be in tan. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage after a short final break. picks up the corage after a short final break. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both

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right now on msnbc former president trump's legal woes are not over yet. special counsel jack smith is trying to revive the election interference case against trump after the s