are not allowed more than sixth grade education. the orchestra is fighting back with instruments. this august they made it to new york city. >> welcome to carnegie hall. ♪♪ >> no one can silence us. >> each concert is a protest? >> each note is a protest. >> reporter: bringing them one step closer, perhaps, to returning music and hope tock their homeland. richard engel, nbc news. >> that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you frp privilege of your time. katy tur in for andrea mitchell picks up news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," former president trump lashes out after special counsel jack smith files a new revised indictment in the d.c. election interference case. what this means for the election and why these charges were filed

now, ahead. vice president harris heads to the sun belt ready to fire up voters in battleground georgia as a state gop official says the race is tighter because of her. and israel sends tanks and troops into the west bank adding even more anger and instability in the region. good to be with you. i'm katy tur in for andrea mitchell. jack smith has filed a new superseding indictment against donald trump for allegedly trying to overturn the 2020 election. while he doesn't add new charges, jack smith recasts his case as a prosecution of a candidate running for office, trying to work around the supreme court decision that gives presidents broad immunity for, quote, official acts while in office. gone are the conversations donald trump had with the doj.

gone is the primary reference to him as the 45th president. instead, he's mainly described as a candidate and changed is co-conspirators like rudy giuliani are described, they are, quote, private attorneys. will that be enough? we have analysis on whether the revised indictment will satisfy the high court's ruling, a decision that is ultimately so broad and deferential, one of the dissenting justices is reiterating her concerns for the future. here is supreme court justice kentanji brown jackson sitting down with cbs news. >> i was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances. when we have a criminal justice system that had ordinarily treated everyone the same. >> we also have yet more fresh video from january 6th, this just released clip of then

speaker nancy pelosi speaking the day after the attack, blaming the violence and chaos right on donald trump. >> there is a domestic enemy in the white house. and let's not mince words about this. >> joining me now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, correspondent von hillyard and former u.s. attorney and law professor barbara mcquade. ken, walk us through the differences between this indictment and the last one. >> this is a paired down version. 45 pages down to 36 pages. it accuses donald trump of the same three criminal conspiracies the original did, conspiracy to defraud the united states, to obstruct congress and to deprive millions of americans of their vote. the biggest thing smith removed from the original as you mentioned is the entire section describing how trump pressured the justice department to launch bogus investigations and make

false declarations of fraud, and that's no surprise because the supreme court actually said in its opinion that communications with the justice department were clearly official acts by a president and, therefore, immune from prosecution. smith also removed other allegations involving trump's dealings with advisors in the oval office and other federal officials, but he kept in trump's conversations with state officials, which is most of the original indictment. smith removed some trump tweets because the supreme court seemed to say statements by a president are usually official acts. smith did not remove allegations that trump committed crimes by pressuring then vice president mike pence to delay the certification of votes on january 6th and the theory seems to be pence was acting as president of the senate and trump acting as a candidate so this was not a president communicating with his vice president. of course trump's lawyers can be expected to challenge that, and in fact, they're likely to argue most of the allegations still stands were official acts and

should be struck. >> barbara, take that deeper and focus on the pence stuff. pence as vice president, how strong is the argument that jack smith is making in this indictment to say that they can overcome the presumption of immunity here? >> yeah. this is the one that is probably going to be the trickiest. i imagine judge chutkan is going to schedule a hearing and will examine all of these allegations, most of the conduct relating to trump as candidate seems fair game for prosecution. but this one has an overlap. as ken said, it frames this allegation in terms of mike pence as president of the senate, but what the court said in its opinion is, that they would protect anything that mate intrude upon the president's constitutional duties as an executive. to the extent that mike pence also served as vice president in the executive branch, there is some risk of that intrusion. i imagine this will be heavily litigated. i can see why jack smith wants this in. this really is the heart of the

whole case, getting mike pence to block the certification. it's a very important part of the narrative, i think, and so they'll litigate it and figure whether this is in or out. >> chief justice in the majority opinion on this case wrote whenever the president and vice president discuss their official responsibilities, they engage in official conduct. it seems like it's going to be a high burden to meet to overcome the presumption of immunity if they're not able to, does jack smith have a case without the conversations with vice president mike pence? >> i think so. you're right. this is going to be litigated and we're going to see a decision on this, probably ultimately by the supreme court. even without the mike pence evidence, however, i think the narrative is a little less complete, but there is still evidence of donald trump -- allegations of donald trump pressuring state officials to change their slate of electors, organizing fake slates of electors and exploiting the chaos at the capitol even after

the attack took place. and so that still puts together, i think a fairly compelling case. it's just one arm tied behind their back as they proceed. >> ken, what about the timing? why file this today or yesterday? >> well, the two sides have until friday to submit proposals for how to move forward in this case. what comes next are likely a series of hearings as barbara said hashing out disputes over what parts of this case can survive and judge chutkan will rule on all of that. it's important to note either side can appeal that ruling all the way up to the supreme court before the trial. so that means that even if trump loses this trial will be a long way off, months, maybe more than a year. >> all right. we're going to wait for an election before then. how is donald trump responding to the superseding indictment, the recasting of this indictment, these -- these charges against him? >> overnight he called it election interference, a direct attack on democracy. i think more importantly, for our conversation, katy, just in the last two hours, he has

posted a flurry of vengeful memes on his truth social account. memes that i think we have a couple of them that we can pull up here. i think that are very quite explicit. you have one ai images of his perceived enemies, joe biden, hunter biden, nancy pelosi, hillary clinton. >> bill gates. >> bill gates in orange jump suits with the text how to actually fix the system. you have another one where you see jack smith, you see actually i'm going to call it the one we are looking at right now, the words indict, sedation, lock they can up from the january 6th select committee. we've got another one, jack smith with the text, quote, he should be prosecuted for election interference and prosecutorial misconduct. a fourth one that i want people to see. president obama with, quote, public military tribunals of obama and others. there's a flurry of others,

others that are qanon. >> this is donald trump in the last two hours. >> it doesn't seem like these are posted by real people. just the handles with the emojis on them and the quality of these ai images you wonder if it's an individual somewhere posting this and creating this stuff on their own or done by a bot or some other agency that wants to influence things. put that aside, this is the former president, reposting images of his opponents' -- political opponents' in prison, big business leaders like bill gates. >> donald trump posts a lot. last month he called for public military tribunals of liz cheney here. this isn't new. we're two months out from an election and for anybody to suggest retribution is not on donald trump's mind, go to his social media account because this is where he has direct control over what he can post and repost. when i talk about two months

out, donald trump is laying the groundwork, katy, claiming election interference saying google is already having election interference. superseding indictment from jack smith is election interference. the gag order in the upcoming sentencing in lower manhattan here from judge merchan is election interference. he's calling the fake ai images that he claimed kamala harris posted of her crowds, which of course were not fake, he said those were election interference and she should be f claiming the 2024 election was stolen and while the focussing could very well be on the indictment that jack smith has brought before him for election interference of the last case, donald trump clearly is looking towards -- >> not just those around him saying his opponents should be prosecuted, not just steve bannon ranting about it on a podcast, this is donald trump reposting things, saying it in his own words and flirting with the possibility. i think back to something david fromme wrote months ago before there was any debate scheduled

between anybody, before the biden and trump debate, the idea that there could be two candidates on stage and they would be treated as both legitimate and both equal, they would be talking about economics and food prices, while one of those candidates tried to overturn an election, denied there was a free and fair election, and still continues to do so. the root level discomfort with equating that or making it on the same level as talking about, you know, policy agendas for the next white house, things as mundane, but as important as the economy, likening that or making it on equal footing with a guy that tried to stay in office when the voters kicked him out. von hillyard and ken dilanian and barbara quaid, thank you very much. we'll head to southern georgia where vice president harris' campaign hopes to gain new support in a critical swing state. you're watching msnbc. state. you're watching msnbc.

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nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli is in savannah where the bus tour will be ending. lucky you, mike. bring us behind the scenes and talk to me about this decision to get out of the safe spaces of georgia? >> well, katy, the strategy is really interesting. this statistic floored me. you're used to, as a fellow campaign reporter, traveling not just to the same small handful of states, but often the same parts of the same states. georgia is only recently in play, president biden was the first democrat to win it since bill clinton, but the campaign says when vice president harris touches down in savannah she will be the first general election candidate to hold an event in savannah since the 1990s. think about that. so this is the strategy of you want to win, of course, a statewide plurality of the vote and to do so you can run up the score in democratic areas including those counties you mentioned surrounding the

atlanta area where president biden campaigned four years ago or you can try to eat into the republican margins all over the state. that's what the harris campaign says it's going to be trying to do today. they're going to be reaching out to some of their base voters. there's a significant black population here in southeast georgia they think they can mobilize, but they're going to be reaching out to rural voters, middle-class voters, those in the swing zone, that they think they can eat into trump's overall margin in the state. so the campaign is not just putting the candidate here. they say they've been spending resources here and coordinated offices throughout the state including here in southeast georgia, doing events with surrogates and campaign team on the ground as well. this is an effort with the bus tour to reach more parts of this is area than doing one big rally which the vice president will be doing here tomorrow night. >> thank you very much. joining me savannah moyer van johnson. thank you for joining us, mr. mayor. we appreciate your time. >> thank you so much. a pleasure. >> so what do you think of this move to go outside of, as i said

before, the safer blue districts in georgia, bluer districts? >> well, let's be really clear, savannah is reliably blue. chatham county is reliably blue. it really more speaks to the vice president's attitude that at the end of the day we're one big tent. after the election you have to speak to the needs of everyone, and the vice president harris speaks to the needs of people in savannah and our partners in coastal georgia. the road to the white house goes through georgia and the lane to that road goes through savannah, goes through coastal georgia. we know she's been engaged in rural hospitals which is important to our neighbors in and around us, certainly to farmers helping them $3.1 billion to invest in farmers across rural georgia. she speaks to the issues that are important to us. we're just excited that she's coming. >> what are the issues, the top

issues, that you think she should be talking about? >> it is the economy. the reality is, although we have indicators to say things are better, many americans just don't feel like it. stuff is still too high, costs too much for places to live and for health care. she speaks directly to those issues. how do we deal with resiliency in a coastal city like savannah that deals with more significant rain and wind events. how do we deal with individuals being able to grow up and risk their best lives and dreams. she understands us. she gets us. she speaks to the needs of savannah and coastal georgia. >> abortion, is that going to be a big issue for voters who are not democrats in georgia, but who are independents in georgia, or moderate republicans in georgia? >> it is a huge issue.

at the end of the day health care -- [ inaudible ] women and their doctor. not a woman [ inaudible ] this is actually been here in six months. it's something different to show up twice and she's done that. >> i love that, love is an action word. show up with flowers one of these days. >> bring them to savannah. >> i will tell them that. let me read a quote from you, you might enjoy this quote from the chairman of the gwinnett county republican party he said replacing biden with harris has been good for the democrats. quote, i was very comfortable it would not be an easy win but it

would be a four or five-point win. i think it's going to be a little tighter now because i think she's energized a few of the democrats that were not energized before and they seem to be more active. is this going to come down energized democrats or does she need to find more than that? >> it comes down to energized democrats, but it also comes down to speaking to republicans who are tired of the juvenile behavior of the other candidate, of the mean-spiritedness, of the threats to our democracy, the thoughts that we're not patriotic because we're democrat, and then also independent people who, you know, might vote another way, but on this day, and this race, that they will go in there and they will vote for the person that best represents their interest, who won't embarrass them and who certainly is not a felon. >> are you concerned about the new rules put in place by the georgia election board? >> of course i am. it's like you play the whole season and then before the world

series, you change the rules. and again, this is something we've dealt with here in georgia. despite the fact that it's been proven conclusively time and time again that there were no widespread voter fraud here, yet the rules keep changing, you know, we have to fight and when we fight we win. we're going to fight and we're going to fight by showing up at the ballot box. >> it's a reasonable inquiry to put things into question. do you know what that means, is there a -- is there a limit to that? do you know what a reasonable inquiry would not be regarding ballots? >> a reasonable inquiry would be once you ask the question, and the question has been answered, and there's supporting documentation, and then you refuse -- beyond that, that's reasonable. when you keep questioning the result, when you keep questioning the inquiry, at some point it just goes from being reasonable to being absurd.

and so we are living in a time of absurdity. we are four years into the biden-harris administration and there are people still talking about what happened in 2020, which in may mind is absolutely absurd. the fact is, is that joe biden is our president. kamala harris is our vice president. and i was an elector in georgia, one of the 16 that got to cast that historic vote, and the fact is, is that, you know, we're moving on. we have moved on from that. we need to move on. >> mayor van johnson of savannah, georgia, thank you very much for joining us. >> we look forward to having you and your husband here in savannah. >> i'm going to give you a call when i come down. coming up next, how new israeli military operations in the west bank could impact cease-fire talks and efforts to free hostages in gaza. you're watching msnbc. olay super serum night repair. delivers five benefits in one. visibly renewing surface skin cells while you sleep.

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hamas tunnel yesterday left the hospital today. a little bit of good news there. joining us is retired admiral of former nato supreme allied commander. thank you for being with us. we say this is a region on edge and tensions keep flaring, but it's. somewhat contained, despite that. do you see this as maintaining this current level of simmering containment, or are we headed somewhere else? >> i think we're going to be okay, okay being defined as this is not going to explode into a wider war, katy, but the operations now being conducted in the west bank kind of draw a line under the fact that israel is facing terrorism from hamas in gaza, from hezbollah to the north, and all the way from down in the red sea by houthis, this is yet another axis of threat

for the israelis. the second point to be made here is, the iranian connection looming over all of these threats to israel is the spector of iran and that, i think, is why the israelis are very focused on getting into the west bank and rooting it out to the degree they can. >> what is the, i guess, political damage of them doing this? i understand they're arguing there is a safety need to go in there, but what is the political damage of them doing this at this moment? >> it's a tactically significant. what i mean by that is, even as the biden administration continues to try with immense emergency to get the cease-fire talks landed, here's yet another obstacle that will be thrown in the face of it because, let's face it, katy, you can get to a cease-fire conceivably in gaza,

but step two is governance, is turning it over to somebody. that's ultimately got to be the palestinian authority, and when you're the israelis and you're attacking inside the west bank against targets in the vicinity of the palestinian authority, just going to be much more difficult to breathe life into this cease-fire and above all to get to that next step beyond the initial cease-fire. >> how do you read benjamin netanyahu right now? there are folks within israel, former prime ministers, writing scathing op-eds saying that he doesn't want a cease-fire, he wants this to erupt into a wider war because he wants to be seen as the winston churchhill of israel? they say his future, his ambitions are so tied to this war that he can't be trusted to be in charge of it? >> i agree with that assessment,

which is to say, from all that i can see, what benjamin netanyahu has done initially responding to the attacks against hamas, quite understandable, but the way in which this now goes on and on and on, the level of strikes, for example, launched against hezbollah to the north, 100 israeli aircraft pounding away up there, add to that going into the west bank in the middle of what ought to be a period to try to close the cease-fire, when you put all that together, that's not the defiance of a winston churchhill. that's somebody looking for a fight, and i think it is tied to domestic political concerns and legal ones that the prime minister has. >> so one of the former prime ministers, i'll bring up his op-ed in particular, is arguing that netanyahu is so not to be

trusted and will not come to a cease-fire agreement, and because of that, what needs to happen is that his government needs to step down. these are the people that you want to step down. he wants yoav gallant to step down, benny gantz, walk away from the government, to i guess make a point to the israeli public that this isn't working any longer and to put benjamin netanyahu under more duress. is that a good idea, given who he's currently aligned himself already, that is the far right in israel? >> i think ultimately the netanyahu government is going to fall. benny gantz has left it. i know him well. he was their chief of defense when i was in charge of u.s.-israeli military to military cooperation. he's already voted with his feet. i think the key individual that former prime minister is really directing this toward is yoav gallant, the current minister of defense, former chief of the

idf. i think it is getting close for time for him to step away. the point is well taken. won't that simply play into the hands of the right wing? i don't think so. we won't know, katy, until the knesset comes back from its break, probably toward the end of september. so we've got a month to continue to watch this bubble. >> all right. thank you very much. i really appreciate it. we'll watch and see what happens next. coming up, how the high costs of everyday living may impact voters' choices, especially in critical swing states like wisconsin. you're watching msnbc. sconsin. you're watching msnbc. (aaron) i own a lot of businesses... so my tech and my network need to keep up. thank you, verizon business. (kevin) now our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. (aaron) so whatever's next... we're cooking with fire. (vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on. [introspective music] recipes. recipes that are more than their ingredients.

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wisconsin is must-win. jd vance is in [ inaudible ] today and donald trump in lacrosse tomorrow and kamala harris and tim walz were in milwaukee smack dab in the middle of their chicago convention. all of the candidates would do well to focus on, no surprise here, the economy. a "new york times" siena poll of voters in wisconsin shows it is their most important issue. joining us now ben wicklehrer, chair of the wisconsin democratic party. thank you very much for joining us. the economy, big and broad, what specifically? >> well, the question is, who is fighting for working families for the middle class and who is fighting for the rich?

it's pretty clear. if you look at each of their plans and what they have said at their convention and everywhere else, kamala harris and tim walz understand the middle class bus they're from it and they're going to fight to bring down costs from groceries to child care to expanding social security and medicare, prescription drug costs and so much more. trump and vance are on the side of their billionaire buddies and their plan to cut taxes for the ultra wealthy and then set off an inflation bomb to raise costs for middle-class families. so if you're a billionaire maybe vote for trump if that's all you care about. if you're anybody else, harris and walz is clearly your ticket. >> they do an analysis of the best and worst state for biz, this year wisconsin ranked 31st, d-plus grade. 25th in the nation for business friendliness. a c-plus. the cost of living given a b-plus, tenth in the nation. is there something that kamala harris can propose that will elevate those grades?

>> slaul. she's got a whole draft of proposals. wisconsin, we have a great governor, a state legislator that rigged our maps so they could make sure no bills could pass through the legislature that would work for working people for the last 12 years. this year we have a chance to flip our state assembly and break the republican super majority in our state senate and means we can do in our state what kamala harris is proposing nationally to bring down the cost of child care, support unions and working families, easier to start and run and launch a small business. we've had record-breaking small business creation which is great, but we have a lot more to do. that's why we're organizing up and down the ballot in wisconsin from state legislative districts like the one i'm in, in northern wisconsin, with i is going to flip from a red gerrymandered district to blue one, to tammy baldwin statewide and the presidential race. there's a ton to do to reorient our economy towards the middle class, towards working families,

working not just to get by, but to get ahead. we know that the economy grows from the middle out and bottom up. that's what's at stake in this election. that's what we need. harris and walz, a democratic house and senate and state assembly in wisconsin to do it. >> i love the view there in northern wisconsin. looks like it's super lovely right now. i'm going to ask you about metrics. i know you guys have seen a flood of volunteers coming on since kamala harris got the not the nomination, but was chosen as the successor for joe biden. is there another metric? have you been able to watch the registering of voters or how many voters have been registered and which parties they belong to, in the time since harris was put at the top of the ticket? >> so every metric that we can track, everything that we can measure? wisconsin has been going up for harris, walz and democrats. you just register to vote as a

voter. we had a statewide election on a referendum that the gerrymandered republican legislature tried to put through to grab power away from the governor. the constitutional amendments usually sail through. 12 of the last 13 have passed. we defeated this in a 15 point landslide with the highest turnout in an august election in wisconsin in a presidential year in 60 years. so we can see it in votes, volunteers. we've had 42,000 sign up. more than biden's margin of victory. we see it everywhere we look. this is key. wisconsin is still incredibly close. it's gone a lot -- the democratic ticket has gone up a lot in the polling which means it's probably within a point right now, which means, two or three votes per precinct wherever you are in the state is going to determine the outcome of the presidential election here. that's why we're asking folks to volunteer and donate and hiring right now. we have more than 260 staff on the ground in wisconsin.

48 offices. we're going to need more. every ounce of energy we can muster to win on election day. >> let me ask you about how close it is. you're talking about a point. there are other folks that will be on the ballot that could sway things if it is truly very close. jill stein is going to be on the ballot. rfk jr. will still be on the ballot, even though he's suspending his campaign and cornell west. are they going to be spoilers? >> well, elections in wisconsin four of the last six have come down to less than one percentage point. that means everything can matter enormously. the question for every voter, activist, everyone who's concerned about whether we wind up with project 2025 or wind up with a ticket devoted to freedom, to opportunity and to building towards the future, is how can they make sure that more people turn out and vote for harris and walz? that's the only way to defeat trump. it's clear that one either trump and vance or harris and walz will win in our state. if you're concerned about what

happens in the election, in the spring of 2025, we pass national voting rights legislation, the protecting the right to organize bill, we pass the protections for abortion access, that women's health protection act senator tammy baldwin is the author of, if you want those to pass it's a vote for harris and walz and spreading the message. two choices in terms of the outcome of this race. for every voter in wisconsin you have to recognize the consequences of your actions and work accordingly with every moment you've got. >> thank you very much. really appreciate it. >> thanks so much. coming up next how the major legal and political developments in the last 24 hours will impact the presidential race with the debate now just 13 days away. if there is a debate. you're watching msnbc. if there e you'reat wching msnbc.

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>> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ rs. 13 days until donald trump and kamala harris face off. vp kamala harris has room to define her and policies. whying her running mate governor tim walz is urging people to tune in. >> said on that debate stage will impact your retirement, they're going to impact your kids' education, they're going to impact infrastructure. these are things that matter to us. >> that was walz speaking in boston this morning. joining us victoria defrancesco dean of the clinton school of

public service at the university of arkansas and brendan back former adviser for speakers ryan and boehner. we believe the debate will happen. is donald trump is known, victoria, he's completely known. what are does kamala harris need to do in this debate which will be watched by quite a few people? >> she has to remain calm. what she does is prosecute the case. prosecute the case why a donald trump administration would wreak havoc on the country going forward, highlighting and reminding the american public what happened during the trump administration. right now, donald trump likes to cast the economy was booming, everything was fantastic, his four years were marquee, but that's not the case. so i think it's reminding the

public, but also keeping that cool. it's about the vibe as well, that this is a woman that is in control, that is trustworthy and acting the part of i am the commander in chief. >> kamala harris, as i understand it, and donald trump, have never spoken to each other before. i think she's only been in the room with him for a state of the union. they don't know each other. clinton and trump knew each other. biden and trump knew each other. they had been in the same rooms and had conversations. i'm thinking back to the debates with hillary clinton, brendon, where donald trump was stalking her, standing back and was always behind her when they were doing the town hall debate or constantly interrupting her, calling her a puppet, you're the puppet, back and forth. her and calling her a puppet, that back and forth. how does harris prepare for somebody like donald trump? is it a advantage or disadvantage to not know him the way the others did? >> i don't know if it's a disadvantage, but what she needs

to do is recognize donald trump thrives by pulling people down into the mud with him. his goal is to pull you down and get you into a verbal spat, and i imagine why that's her campaign was trying to keep the -- you know, excuse me, the mics on so people can see what he's trying to do there. she needs to maintain that level of optimism. she gave an incredible speech at the convention that tried to turn the page on -- not just donald trump but the less era of politics and presented her as a challenger in a way, even though she's the sitting vice president. if she said i am going to talk to the country and stay optimistic, that's a home run. if she ends up having a bunch of

verbal spars with him, and that's a reminder. >> you are in ruby red arkansas. >> in all states that are decidedly red, it's a question of mobilization. the likelihood of a state like this flip something low, but you also want to seat growth across electoral cycles and that's the goal for the democrats, like here and in texas and in other red states in what you have said in the past probably is a tremendous amount of enthusiasm with democrats here in arkansas, and democrats who very much are feeling disenchanted, and already feeling disenchanted looking at the context, and this is a shot in the arm for folks here to see this energy, and, to brandon's point, to see the

optimism. to see the mobilization and in terms of getting people registered to vote and getting engaged, and this is what we have seen with the kamala harris presidency -- sorry, candidacy. >> are americans enchanted with donald trump the way they used to be? >> is that for me? >> no, it's for victoria, in arkansas, there? >> i think that base of love for the democratic roots and what the democratic party stands for in terms of the leveling the playing field for working families, for making folks be able to make ends meet, she's able to boost up that enthusiasm. >> brendan, the one i wanted to hand to you was the confrontation that donald trump and his staffers had at arlington national cemetery.

there was apparently a conflict, some sort of altercation between staffers and cemetery officials when trump was trying to take a photographer in section 60, which doesn't allow any sort of video or photographing for campaign purposes, and do you think this is something they might be worried about getting out? >> perhaps, the way they are acting. look, i can't imagine donald trump would have shown up for this event running for president. he has shown time and time again he doesn't have respect for the military service members or the fallen. i think a lot of us were scratching our head at how this event came together and what they were up to and why they were there and allowed to be doing this. look, if he got into a fight with somebody in that hallowed

ground, i think a lot of people would like to know about that and i suspect we will continue to know more about it. our reporters are digging into it. it's disgraceful the way he talked about our veterans, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was doing things he shouldn't be doing. >> and that's the tomb of the unknown soldier, and often times there are cameras there to tape what happens. all right, i appreciate it. thank you very much. before we go, on saturday september 7th, join me on democracy live, our fan event in brooklyn, new york, where you will hear thought-provoking conversations as we get closer and closer to november. scan the qr code. do it quickly on your screen, or go to msnbc.com/democr

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