it stands for the unification of athletes from all corners of the world. the other thing i'll note. do you remember the very famous olympic mascot? the nearly impossible to say frisa? now she has a paralympic counter part sprinting on to the scene with a prosthetic. the visible disability is a strong reminder and sends a strong message of inclusion. in terms of what the most sought after events include, they include para taekwondo, wheelchair fencing. tickets for those events sold out weeks ago. i'm emilie ikeda, nbc news, paris. >> and that's going to do it for us this hour. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. kamala harris and tim walz today are going fishing for votes like no democratic presidential candidate since bill clinton. they're going to right leaning south georgia. taking a two-day bus tour

through some of the more rural and red parts of the state, but places were turning out dormant democratic voters could be game changing. more than ambitious, it's a sign of optimism. the harris/walz campaign is playing offense right now, while trump and vance find themselves on defense. forced to answer for and try to clarify one negative story after another, be it an alleged physical confrontation or altercation with an arlington national cemetery worker, a re-post of memes calling for the jailing of trump's political opponents or yet another unearthed tape of j.d. vance attacking women without children. this time, it's teachers. days after telling nbc news that democrats, quote, willfully misinterpreted his childless cat ladies remark, the audio of vance going after the head of the nation's largest teacher's union who says she became a mother through marriage. >> so many leaders of the left, and i hate to be so personal

about this, but they're people without kids trying to brainwash the minds of our children. and that really disorients me and it really disturbs me. randi weingarten. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent, garrett haake, "washington post" senior political correspondent and msnbc political analyst, ashley parker and dispatch senior writer, david drucker. there's the arlington national cemetery melee. i'm trying to get to the bottom of this, garrett. can you work out what happened? the trump campaign says they have video. why haven't they released it? >> i think whether or not there was an altercation from the staff between the cemetery and campaign, there were words exchanged, maybe secondary to what we know happened, donald trump at the invitation of one family member of a marine killed at the abbey gate bombing shot what has turned into campaign

content at section 60 of arlington national cemetery, something against both federal law and arlington cemetery's specific policies here. we have seen it in the form of a tiktok video, the trump campaign argues this was meant to be a solemn remembrance. he has focused on it politically, using it to attack the harris and biden campaigns, and did that with the content that he produced there. it appears over the objections perhaps very strenuous objections of arlington cemetery staff. we know that a police report was filed with military police about this incident. but the cemetery's pr folks say they are not saying anything more, and my foyer request for that report might be a very long time coming. >> those don't usually come quickly. let's talk about the other thing that's out there. vaughn hillyard was arguing earlier to me today that this is actually a much bigger deal. these are the images that he's reposting on his truth social.

can you walk us through some of them, garrett. >> this is wild stuff. i don't have any other way to explain it. this is trump reposting memes he sees from his fans on truth social. this one showing his political opponents in jump suits. there's another one in which he talks about military tribunals, locking up members of the january 6th committee. there are several that use qanon propaganda about the storm coming and where we go one, we go all acronym that some people have become familiar with. it is so strikingly different from the content that trump's campaign is posting on his behalf on x where it's seen by many millions more people. what you're getting here is fan service for the most fervent elements of the trump political base on truth social, more general, benign political content on x. the campaign doesn't explain it where in the truths speak for themselves territory when it comes to most things that trump puts on social media, but as a stark reminder of the way in

which being off kind of general use social media where he's seen by many more voters has been something that has occurred to his political benefit over the last year and a half. regular folks who aren't super dialled in to political content aren't seeing this kind of stuff, which he is reposting on somewhat of a regular basis. last night into today is certainly increasing volume. >> garrett haake, i'm going to let you go. thank you so much. david, i want to get into a little bit more on that. by putting those sorts of images and amplifying them on truth social in particular, and as garrett said, targeting the more fervent trump believing base, are we running the risk of having another january 6th all over again, if this election doesn't go donald trump's way. he's amplifying the images, talking about putting his political opponents in jail. he's also once again, elevating the prospect of fraud if he doesn't get elected again. is this where we're headed?

>> there are a lot of people worried this is where we could be headed. when you approach an election by saying the only way we lose is if they cheat, and it's a repeat of what we saw four years ago, but on a larger scale, i mean, this is the sort of thing that is potentially a set up for what we saw on january 6th. and it also is preparing trump supporters for the same sort of outcome. i think ultimately, it's a matter of whether or not the government is more prepared this time. i would suspect the government is going to be a lot more prepared this time. i think the reason so many people are worried is because what trump is telling his most fervent supporters, the kind of people that showed up on the capitol on january 6th, 2021, except if we win. >> even asking the question feels kind of silly because we have seen this before. we've seen this playbook before.

is it even fair to ask what donald trump's intending with this after all that we know about him? >> the thing that i have been thinking a lot about is that whatever he is intending to sort of lay the groundwork for another stolen election, if it doesn't go his way, is that right now in this moment, at least, it seems pretty clear that all of this behavior and going off message is hurting him politically. the harris campaign just came out with a new ad talking about project 2025. and one thing i have been fascinating about is how project 2025 has really caught up in the public imagination with voters that both biden, sorry, harris, i'm still adjusting to the new reality as well, that both harris and trump need to win, and i was thinking, it's not every day that a somewhat wonky, 922-page policy book, full of

recommendations on how to overall the federal bureaucracy emerges as a compelling campaign message. part of that is because for instance, what garrett outlined of memes and messages that trump is putting up on social media, so when people hear what's in this document that seems secretive and nefarious, and voters, including republicans, really don't like, the reason it has resonated and the reason they believe is it because trump has tried to disavow t. they go to his truth social page and they say wait a minute, he's tweeting about wanting retribution, right. he's tweeting about maybe trying to claim it was another stolen election, and we all know what happened last time. this feels real. it feels scary. it feels threatening. to answer your first question about what we saw happen january 6th previously, and it also, and this is the confusing part, it hurts him politically. >> it also feels intentional. let me talk about the other

thing in the news today, and seems to be the news every day, j.d. vance and another unearthed audio. this one is about, again, women who don't have children. randi weingarten married into having kids, and he was talking as if that somehow made her not qualified to be a teacher or to lead a teacher's union. he keeps answering for this stuff and saying that it, you know, was just a joke with the childless cat ladies. the comments keep coming out. how much is this a worry for the campaign. are they talking about it at all? >> there's a lot of concern about this stuff with the campaign in part because, katy, you and i we both know we became stepparents, first by marriage. >> i was going to say -- >> and had our own kids, but everyone in this country knows that families are complicated and having children is

complicated and fertility, and so anytime somebody weighs in on this in a way that appears pretty callous, and even when he tries to spin it as sarcastic and cruel at worst, it's simply not a winning issue with just about everyone. there's an irony that republicans have largely been the party of. keep government out of my family, and out of my business. and so it seems to be violating some basic traditional republican tenets in a way that offends huge swaths of the country. >> i want to read a little bit from what randi weingarten said in response. she said, it's a long response. i'll read a part of it. teachers want what children need. i'm blessed to be a mom by marriage. it's irrelevant whether any of us care about children. teachers are digging into their pockets to pay for school supplies. we should be celebrating the hope and promise of a new school year, not trashing it with

gross, ridiculous comments like vance. do you think, david, this is going to be harmful? >> look, i think to the extent it keeps the trump campaign off balance, that's helpful to the harris campaign. i don't think any of this ultimately undoes a campaign. all voters want to know about the vice presidential nominee, do you pass the commander in chief test. if you're called to serve, if somebody happened to the president, could you do the job. i don't think j.d. vance has disqualified himself in that regard, and that's what's most important. i do think j.d. vance just the other day saying that trump would veto a national abortion ban if it reached his desk is probably more impactful than anything he has had to say that has been unearthed previously about childless cat ladies or anything else. it speaks to donald trump's leadership, and there are so many committed pro-life voters that may have an issue with that, and it will be interesting to see if that affects the

campaign. i think it is important to remember, too, that donald trump has a uniquely controversial and provocative candidate, he has been saying things far more politically charged than anything j.d. vance has said or has been unearthed to have said over the past couple of years. a lot of american voters have grown numb to it. so clearly a vice presidential nominee could say things that could ultimately be a bigger problem. usually it's about passing that presidential test. if you can't pass that, then that's a real problem. >> i think it's interesting you brought up the abortion comment. he's trying to say that donald trump would veto an abortion ban. i wonder if donald trump at some point needs to say how he plans ton voting in the florida election on the issue of abortion. he calls it a state's issue. he has been asked how he's going to vote on the amendment to protect abortion in that state. is he going to vote yes, the

state should do it or no? i think that's a fair question and one he should be able to answer given that he's going to be in charge of implement organize vetoing a federal election ban if he's in office and if congress sends it to him. david drucker, ashley parker, thank you very much. still ahead, will jack smith's reworked indictment save the election interference case against donald trump. there's one major allegation that legal scholars say will be tricky to keep. and the idf strikes the west bank. what they say they were targeting. first, though, harris and walz hit the road on a bus tour of georgia, what the tour itself says about their prospects in that state. we're back in 90 seconds. my mom is asian, and he's black. he sees his kids being that kind of person. he said he'll drop dead if he sees her. it's like a michael jackson thing for him. ckson thing for him. boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold.

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southeastern part of georgia. joining us now from savannah is nbc news correspondent priya sridhar, and mike memoli, and political columnist with the "atlanta journal-constitution" patricia murphy. the southeast part of the state, you heard the mayor of savannah saying the road to the white house and the lane to the white house goes right up through coastal georgia including savannah. is that how the harris/walz team sees it as well? >> reporter: they certainly see it as an important part of their strategy, and this entire trip, katy, the kids might say is a bit of a flex by the harris campaign. they want to take that energy and enthusiasm from what they felt was a very successful convention in chicago last week and show they're playing on an expanded battleground map. president biden won georgia, the first democrat to do so since 1992. it seemed his focus was narrowing to defense. playing in the blue walz states. by choosing georgia, the harris

campaign is signaling they are playing with house money, and not just choosing georgia, choosing a part of the state that hasn't seen a general election, presidential campaign event since the mid-1990s. that's how rare it is to see this ticket come here. they're going to be doing a mix of events, a bus tour with the new ticket, harris and walz, doing retail, visiting rural parts of blue counties. then we'll see the vice president do a large solo rally like we have seen her do over the course of the last few weeks. it's important to note, katy, this is not just the candidate. the harris campaign has been on the ground. they say they have 50 offices throughout southern georgia. they have had 500 events since may 31st. they are doing the work. showing it's not an either/or proposition. when you have the resources, you can do all the above. >> tell me about what voters are saying regarding this visit sfl. >> yeah, absolutely. some of the voters were very excited about the fact that

kamala harris was coming here. it was a point of pride that she was coming specifically to savannah. others had no idea that she was coming here at all. they weren't surprised this part of the state is in the national spotlight. now georgia is in play once again, now that harris is at the top of the ticket, and not biden. i did get a chance to speak with democratic voters who say they are much more enthusiastic about this election cycle because of kamala harris. let's take a listen to what they had to say. >> how do you feel about kamala harris coming to town? >> exuberant. just elated that this community is going to have a firsthand contact with this incredible person. i'm going to cry. i'm so happy that a woman may be in charge. and a very capable, capable woman with integrity. >> i like her, first of all, because she's a very intelligent woman. i do believe that a woman can be

a president. we run the households and everything else. so i'm just excited. i'm excited to see what a woman can bring to a man built world, basically. >> reporter: as you can see, there's some voters getting emotional about the idea that this could be a history breaking election cycle. but on the other side of the coin, i spoke to republican voters who say, listen, the 2020 election cycle in georgia was just a fluke, and they think that georgia will remain a red state. they say that kamala harris's policies being tied to the biden administration are just not going to resonate with georgia voters, specifically when it comes to border issues, and also the economy. voters on both sides of the aisle, i will say, do believe this will be an extremely tight race. >> this is up your alley, a political columnist for the acc. was 2020 just a fluke? >> so the most important race to

look at recently here in georgia is the 2022 campaign. that is when governor brian kemp, a republican, won statewide, the same year, raphael warnock, a democrat won reelection for senator. there are split ticket voters here in georgia that are the exact people that the harris campaign needs to mine. that's why they're going to south georgia, and just an important detail is that the campaign manager for raphael warnock is the deputy campaign manager for kamala harris. he knows where those votes are in georgia. he knows how to close those margins with donald trump even in deep red counties. even in south georgia, a lot of those counties are majority black. they are not all white rural voters down there in the southern part of the state. the deputy campaign manager, he knows where harris belongs. >> this is something that i saw in 2020 when i was following trump campaign. he went places people said he didn't need to go or he had no business going, and voters there

responded. i wonder if this is they are taking a page out of what donald trump did in 2016, and going to the places that, you know, technically speaking they shouldn't be going, actually finding the voters where they are instead of relying on the blue places in the swing states? >> yeah, that's a huge part of the margin. that's a huge part of the victory, and the recipe for victory. they know they're going to win atlanta by a huge, huge margin. but there are democratic voters south of atlanta. this whole area is about a four-hour drive south of atlanta. they have not seen a presidential candidate since 1992 when bill clinton went there. so they are hungry, i would say. or they're at least open to a democratic message. these are voters who may not have even voted in years and years, low propensity voters. that is a really important bucket. it's also a really different set of issues. not enough grocery stores, not

enough hospitals, not enough jobs in this part of the state, and that will be issues that harris and tim walz will be able to speak to, hear from those voters, and if they're smart, go to their campaign going forward. >> joe biden ran up the numbers in 2020 among democrats in georgia. there are moderate republicans, independents who voted for him because they were tired of donald trump. is there still softness there? are they still an opportunity for kamala harris, patricia? >> yeah, i would say they're absolutely still an opportunity for kamala harris because donald trump is still donald trump. he was winning this state when joe biden was still on the ticket, but i think now that harris is on the ticket, they have a really different moment here, especially with black women voters in particular who say i have been waiting my entire life for this moment. it will be as much as ginning up enthusiasm for kamala harris as it is hammering donald trump and reminding georgia voters why

they didn't vote for him in 2020. there's a record there that they can continue to exploit. donald trump is super strong. it's a true, true toss up right now. >> patricia murphy, priya sridhar, mike memoli, thank you very much. check out that qr code on your screen. go to it right now, open your camera app and phone. scan it. it's going to bring you to a site where you can buy tickets for this event, msnbc live, democracy 2024, all the people you see on the screen there will be having conversations about this election, which, as you know, is insanely interesting. we would love to have you join us. please do. again, saturday, september 7th in brooklyn. and coming up, the idf just conducted its largest military operation in months on the west bank. what it could mean for a cease fire deal. first, though, what special counsel jack smith dropped in his new superseding

indictment against donald trump. .

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we had a lot of questions for special counsel jack smith after the supreme court handed down its immunity decision. how would they move forward if they granted president broad immunity for official acts. could whatever is left go to trial before election day? now we have answers.

special counsel jack smith filed a superseding indictment recasting the case as a prosecution as a candidate instead of a sitting president. trying to frame the actions as personal, not official. joining us now, justice reporter, ryan reilly, and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. what did jack smith remove, drop from the indictment, ryan, sorry? >> so the official acts are essentially what's out. all of the action around the justice department and especially jeff clark who was an unindicted coconspirator. he is out of this indictment now. he's not really a factor of it. basically they eliminated anything that there was a solid argument at least under the supreme court's interpretation that this was an official act done in his capacity as president of the united states, rather than a candidate for office. and now they're sort of refocusing, as you mentioned, all of those allegations around his role as a candidate.

so there's a little bit more focus on, say, the speech, for example, this was a speech. he wasn't making as president. this was a speech they were saying he was making as a candidate for office and everything is really framed around that idea, to basically serve this up and give them a clean start. it was a new grand jury that heard the evidence that decided to reindict the former president based just on the information that was presented to them. so they didn't see any of the evidence about the justice department and what donald trump was doing inside trying to put in sort of this guy who supported a lot of his conspiracy theories about january 6th into the position at the top of the justice department. they saw the evidence that sort of has been more classified as actions he took as a candidate. >> the conversations with mike pence regarding the certification, i want to read something from the supreme court's ruling. this is chief justice john roberts in his majority opinion saying, whenever the president and vice president discuss their official responsibilities they

engage in official conduct. now, jack smith is trying to say that he had no official responsibilities. donald trump had nothing official in having a conversation with mike pence about the electoral count because donald trump had no role in that. is that a successful argument, lisa? >> i think it is likely to be a successful argument, and katy, as you noted in quoting from the supreme court's opinion, there's a whole section of that opinion that talks about the various roles that the vice president might be playing, that certainly the vice president counts as one of the president's closest advisers, from a policy perspective, and when they are having conversations in that context, that's out of bounds: but jack smith is trying to recast the pressure election campaign, and mike pence in his kmaflt as president of the senate on the other. mike pence has an official role to play in the counting of those votes as contrasted with donald

trump who, as jack smith alleges had no role to play whatsoever in the administration or conduct of federal elections. it's certainly the best take that i have seen on it. but you also see in that, mike pence's role in the pressure campaign against mike pence is integral to what jack smith considers his case to be. as compared to other conversations that donald trump had with people in his white house or department of justice orbit, they were willing to let those go. the mike pence things on the other hand, that is part and parcel to what jack smith thinks this case is fundamentally about. >> we have a little bit more from january 6th, it seems like we get a little bit more every once in a while. and this is from nancy pelosi. there's video from her of that day. there's also video of her the next day, ryan reilly, talking about donald trump, and essentially blaming him for the chaos at the capitol. where did we get this from? >> this is footage that was shot by alexandra pelosi, nancy

pelosi's daughter. it's the cutout of footage used for a documentary for hbo. it was turned over by hbo and obtained by nbc news. it's kind of remarkable footage because it shows her immediate reaction to this. she's obviously upset about the failures in law enforcement, and very quickly of course the next day you saw resignations from the leader of the capitol police, for example, the house sergeant at arms as well as the senate sergeant at arms. there was quick heads to roll immediately afterwards and you see some of that in the footage. there's strong language she uses referring to the then president as a domestic enemy, take a listen. >> there is a domestic enemy in the white house. and let's not mince words about this. >> and you see that shattered mirror up there. and having covered a lot of these january 6th cases, i can tell you, you know, exactly the

write ore who went who was also filming and talking about stealing those gloves you see on the righ hand side of the table, pink boxing gloves, they were left there. under that mantle, one thing that was taken by a rioter was footage of nancy pelosi standing with former representative john lewis, actually, in africa during a trip over there that was stolen by one of the rioters. you're seeing right there sort of the scene of the crime, and her speaking with her staff in the immediately after math of this horrific attack. >> nancy pelosi is blaming donald trump for it. a lot of people blame donald trump for it. big name republicans blamed him at the time, kevin mccarthy, lindsey graham, they say this was caused by what donald trump was peddling. seeing this video now in light of the supreme court justice opinion, the supreme court opinion on presidential immunity, it kind of makes it seem like the court was looking at that event and shrugging its

shoulders and saying no big deal, lisa? >> you know, katy, i don't know that we can necessarily say that. there are certainly those on the court who believe that january 6th is an incredibly big deal. what i think we can say that they definitively said is a president of the united states, in contrast to what we believe to be true for most of history, is immune from prosecution for doing the same things that anybody else, you, me, your neighbor would be instantly prosecuted for, and that it took off the table, even the use of many of those events in conversation as evidence, even with respect to the prosecution for unofficial conduct. you couldn't, for example, make reference to his tweets from the oval office or conversations that he had in issuing statements from the white house on january 6th. so much of that has been taken off the table, even in so far as

the department of justice and the special counsel are prosecuting donald trump in his capacity as a candidate. they still can't look to that evidence. and that, i think, will be in many respects, even worse than immunity from prosecution is this evidentiary facet of the supreme court discuss will have reverberations across these case of former president trump in ways that will be dill tar yous to the special counsel in making its case. >> lisa rubin, ryan reilly, thank you very much. could north carolina go blue, what's turning the tar heel state into a toss up state? plus, what a deadly raid in the west bank means for a cease fire. ank means for a ceas e fire when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. ♪ me and my friends ♪ ♪♪

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overnight, israel launched the largest military operation in the occupied west bank in 20 years. israeli forces launched air strikes and led ground assaults in several areas. the palestinian red crescent says two dozen were injured, and at least ten killed. it's unclear who they were. israel foreign minister defended the raid saying the country was in a full fledged war, and the idf needed to up root iranian terror infrastructure. while they were able to rescue one hostage from a tunnel, today they took home a body, a soldier taken by force into gaza on october 7th. joining us now, nbc news

international correspondent daniele hamamdjian in jerusalem. talk to me more about the west bank raids. what's happening there? >> reporter: well, these raids are not uncommon. they usually happen mostly at night. they usually happen for a few hours, and they don't always involve, they rarely, actually, involve so many units within the idf. this is different, what you're seeing tonight, hasn't been seen in years, and it's still happening almost 24 hours after the fact. the idf calling it a major counter terrorism operation, and they say they launched it in response to a wave of escalating terrorist activities. they cite the use of ieds under roads, under infrastructure, and they have identified efforts by iran to smuggle in weapons and explosives into the occupied west bank. you mentioned the israeli foreign minister, he said that iran was working to set up a terrorist front against israel in the west bank, similarly to the model followed in gaza and

lebanon. and as we speak now, we have heard from one local source in one of the camps, on the outskirts that they are now going into homes, housely house, detaining young men and taking them to an interrogation site on the outskirts of camp. civilians are scared to go to their windows, they see snipers on roofs and buildings, and there is nobody in the streets until this is over. >> you have spoken to islamic jihad militants in the past, what is their motivation? >>. >> reporter: the hearts of the palestinian resistance in the west bank. some people call it little gaza. the first thing they will tell you is that as long as there will be an israeli occupation, there will be an armed resistance, and for them, this is the only way that they can live with dignity. that's specifically what i was told. and they know that their rifles

are no match for the israeli drones and the tanks, but this is their way of living in dignity, and it's not about an allegiance to islamic jihad, it's not about the ideology but the funding and the money, and where does it come from, it comes from iran. it's not about the geopolitics for them. it's about their daily lives. they say they want to live a life free of humiliationment but what fuels their anger, they say, is the expansion of israeli settlements. it's the sharp rise in settler violence. they cite as well, the provocations and the threats by far right israeli ministers when it comes to the holy muslim sites in jerusalem. add to that, poverty, unemployment, over decades and decades that has fueled and generated a lot of hostility towards israel. >> a disastrous mix, daniele hamamdjian, thank you. and in ukraine, president zelenskyy confirmed his military has now used western supplied f-16 fighter jets to shoot down

russian drones and missiles. the war planes are some of the most sophisticated weapons supplied by the u.s.-led coalition to ukraine. they had pleaded for an edge in combat. and in early august, they finally got them. at the time, moscow condemned the transfer as an escalation. joining us now, nbc news correspondent, erin mclaughlin from kyiv. what is the latest? >> reporter: hey, katy, as you just pointed out there, president zelenskyy confirming that f-16s were used to shoot down missiles that were launched towards ukraine during the course of the overnight attack on monday. although, at the same time, president zelenskyy noting that ukraine still has too few planes, and too few trained ukrainian fighter pilots. i was spoking to an adviser to the ukrainian government who told me that russia still exercises air superiority,

particularly within the donbas region, in part because russia also has a more sophisticated radar. the russians see the ukrainians coming before the ukrainians see the russians, which is a huge problem. that aside, we're also continue to go hear calls from ukrainian government officials for long range weapons. the green light to fire those weapons on russian territory, something that the biden administration has ruled out, citing concerns of escalation, but i was speaking with a western diplomat today. there was a nato ukraine counsel meeting, and he told me that during that meeting, several allies, quote, called for all arms restrictions to be lifted on ukraine so it appears that some of the nato allies believe that those concerns over escalation are overblown, katy. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you. could democrats be on the

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founded. last week larry's crystal ball moved the state from lean republican to a toss up. and yesterday, the -- [ inaudible ] nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki, what's happening in north carolina? >> yeah, an interesting situation because every other swing state that we talk about, the big six, michigan, wisconsin, arizona, all went democratic in 2020. democrats are trying to protect electoral votes in those states. this is the one where democrats are on offense. it went for donald trump a little better than a point in 2020. that was done from 2016. you see the overall margin it was just under 75,000 votes. democrats see opportunity here. republicans are trying to hold on. it is a terror of two competing demographic forces that we talk about all the time. the first is the one that democrats see opportunity in. we talk about metropolitan areas, suburbs, white voters in particular with college degrees

as a group moving more democratic. the research triangle around raleigh, chapel hill, the try adarea, greensboro, winston-salem, high point, asheville, charlotte, a bunch of sort of blue islands in the state here. what democrats see is these areas are getting bluer and bigger. take a look at wake county here. joe biden won it by 27 points. this is massive where raleigh is. the journey that wake has been on. back to 2008, barack obama carried north carolina by a small amount in '08. he won wake county by 14 points. fast forward to 2020, biden winning by double that. 27-point margin in wake county. massive county, growing county, expanding democratic margin. democrats see that in the blue areas i mentioned and so their thought is four more years of population growth since 2020, and these areas in their view may be getting a little more blue, can that erase the 75,000

vote trump margin. the second force is the other one we talk about all the time in the trump era in particular, rural areas, working class white voters, white voters without college degrees, more -- [ inaudible ] and more republican. and [ inaudible ] state, not all of these, but a lot of these, are rural counties. they're small individually but collectively, wow, do they add up. let me give you an example here of what's happening in these kinds of counties. here's suri. look at that. trump landslide, rural. go back in time here. we'll start at the obama year in '08. republican county. the margin was 28 points for the republicans. by 2020 with trump the margin for republicans 52 points. from 28 to 52. again, individually, surry is a small county. but there are a lot of surries all across north carolina. it's a question of who can squeeze more out of their increasingly strong areas.

can the democrats squeeze enough out of these growing metro areas or can trump produce high enough turnout and maybe further gains in those red areas? which one gives? that seems to be the question in north carolina. again, republicans starting with that advantage and democrats saying hey, population growth and new voters alone, they have a chance to overcome that. >> the open seat for governor, the attorney general, running against the republican lieutenant governor mark robinson who is controversial to put it mildly. he is polling terribly at the moment. could he be dragging down donald trump? >> yeah. open seat governor's race. the recent poll we have here, stein the democrat ahead by ten points. this is as the presidential race is closer there. yeah, it's one of those where democrats say they hope there's an issue there with, you know,

unpopular gubernatorial candidate, sort of making the entire republican ticket, the republican brand in the state, less appealing, particularly maybe in the suburban areas where democrats are trying to squeeze more votes out. i think the republicans are simply hoping that trump is able to carry the state and ultimately that maybe lifts robinson up a little bit. that's a big x factor here. >> trump endorsed him, called him the martin luther king on steroids. robinson has made anti-semitic comments, said transgender women should be arrested for using bathrooms, describes straight couples as superior to gay couples. referred to homosexuality and transgenderism as filth. there's a lot more [ inaudible ]. steve kornacki, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. dline: whits after a quick break.

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