the america we thought we knew was actually the one we do know, that this actually is who we are as a country. what so surprised me about the convention in the context of that, it was not just celebrating the ascendance of kamala harris to the top of the ticket. it was sort of reclaiming the country for democrats and saying this is ours. it was no longer we have to apologize for the way we think about the world and our priorities. they are the values of a broad section of the country, if not the outright majority. >> it was such a fun and interesting conversation. you can find it again with another qr code. don't we love qr codes? you can scan the qr code on your screen or look wherever you get your podcasts. that is it for this week. have a great weekend. alex wagner starts right now with katie phang in for alex. good evening and thank you for filling in for me earlier this

week when i had a little bit of a bug. i really appreciate it. >> you are welcome and the best news, you've gotten better, so you have a great labor day weekend. thanks, chris. you know, labor day weekend, it's finally here. the next three days are the time when americans everywhere try to get the most out of their summer. maybe squeeze in one last cookout for beach trip before the weather gets colder and everything starts to taste like pumpkin spice. but in an election year like this one, labor day weekend also marks the moment when most americans really start to pay attention to the presidential race and for the campaigns this is a moment when every detail starts to matter. vice president kamala harris and her running mate tim walz are coming off a two day bus tour through southern georgia. the first democratic campaign in that part of the state since 1992. last night the vice president sat down for her first major

interview since becoming her party's nominee. she defended the record of the biden-harris administration while taking her opponent to task. >> we have had in the former president, someone who has really been pushing an agenda and an environment that is about diminishing the character and strength of who we are as americans. really dividing our nation. i am very proud of the work that we have done that has brought inflation down to less than 3%. the work we have done to cap the price of insulin for seniors. donald trump said he was going to do a number of things including allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices. it never happened. we did it. >> donald trump responded to that interview on his social media site, saying that kamala harris, quote, rambled incoherently, which is pretty rich coming from a former president who seems to struggle daily to be coherent.

for context, here was donald trump that same night in la crosse, wisconsin. >> some people don't eat bacon anymore and we are going to get the energy crisis down. you know this was caused by their horrible energy. wind, they want wind all over the place. >> people don't eat bacon anymore. they want wind all over the place. that that you just heard and saw was part of the republican message to wisconsin where a new bloomberg morning consult poll finds kamala harris leading donald trump by eight points. that same poll shows kamala harris leading trump within the margin of error by four points in nevada and pennsylvania. by three points in michigan and two points in georgia and north carolina, a states that no

democratic presidential candidate has one since 2008. it also finds trump and harris tied in arizona. that tightening race may be why donald trump is now trying to walk away from some of his party's most controversial positions. in the last 24 hours he has waffled back and forth over whether he will support a ballot measure in his adopted home state of florida that would overturn the states six- week abortion ban. more on that personal struggle later in the show. we are also watching for new details on how the two candidates are preparing or in trump's case not preparing for their first debate in 11 days. nbc news reports kamala harris has been focused on how to needle donald trump. how to rattle him and remind people what it was like during donald trump's ears. by contrast, though, trump is reportedly not doing anything

to level expectations. in fact a spokesperson for the trump campaign told nbc news, president trump has proven to be one of the best debaters in political history, as evidenced by his knockout blow to joe biden. he does not need traditional prep, because unlike kamala harris he has a command of the issue, frequently sits down for interviews and takes questions from hostile news media almost every day. okay, so that is a pretty high bar to set for your candidate, especially at this stage of the campaign with a candidate like trump, when every little thing counts and the race could hardly be closer. joining us now is a former campaign manager for bernie sanders 2020 campaign. also joining us is simon rosenberg, author on substack and a former dnc staffer. and staff writer for the

atlantic. simon i would love to start with you. everyone who knows me knows i am not a huge fan of polls, but i recognize trends and we've talked about this before on my own show, but let's talk about those polls because there are significant numbers and if we look at some polls that came out after the announcement of kamala harris going to the top of the ticket, it is the same ticking upwards for kamala harris. >> it is seven points in our direction. she is consistently leading in battleground states. senate pulling across the country is very encouraging. house democrats feel bullish about chances because one of the things that has happened in the past few weeks in addition to improving polls is all of the money and volunteers that have come into our campaigns have made our campaign stronger and more muscular and one of the big stories i think in these final two months as we will have a much greater capacity to close out this

election strong because of all this money and volunteers. i think we feel very good. i've been talking to people in the party this weekend there is a clear optimism about our ability now to feel good about where we are. we have a better ability to close and now we have to execute and when this thing. >> last night we had senator richmond on and he talked about the bus tour in georgia that we have seen the harris-walz campaign doing. the ajc is reporting in georgia the surge of new voter registrations, this number is fascinating. black women lead with a 75% jump in registrations compared with the same 3 1/2 weeks in 2020. simon talks about the vibe. i love vibes. good vibes maybe in this instance translate to actual votes. >> absolutely i agree with everything simon's bed and i want to remain -- everything simon said and i want to remain

in that positivity. this race is not one, there are 60 days until the election and i try to think of donald trump were to win, how does he pull it off? if you go back to 2020 how he pulls it off is quite sad to reflect on that one of the stories was how he outperformed. one of us thought the chaos of that for years editing days years heading into election day. covid and shooting rubber bullets at protesters. it was a chaotic scene and on election day, hopefully everyone remembers on election night wisconsin, georgia, arizona, nailbiters. if that were to flip the other way around, really tens of thousands of votes, donald trump carries the election. that is just to invoke some caution to say there is work to do to make sure this enthusiasm that simon is referring to gets solidified and last-minute voters will come on line as you

mentioned post-labor day who are not following the news as intensely. they are looking for who stands with me, who fights with me and we have to win those people over. it is very critical. >> mark, if people are starting to dial it now and by the way this is a whole other conversation we could have about whether it makes sense to narrow the runway of 90 days ahead of an election versus the torturous time that it normally is. so we have stuff like the interview that kamala harris and tim walz did yesterday, last night on cnn. when you have these battleground states where you have very entrenched voters i would say on both sides of the aisle, especially republican leaning areas in these battleground states, are they tuning in and catching the fact that you have somebody like kamala harris delivering messaging that includes policy when that is substantively lacking when you ask donald

trump what his policy platform is? >> i think last night was an effort by harris and walz. there were not vibes in the way the convention was and the last few weeks were. it did not have the visceral joy we have seen since really the middle of the summer, but i think it really did, it was a perfectly fine and kind of unspectacular but also victoria's evening because they did get a message out. i think to the larger point, i very much agree with both of these guys, but also i think the numbers are really encouraging. the way they have run the campaign in the past few weeks is really encouraging, but you can't get past the fact that yes, people, joe biden one and 2020, but trump seriously over performed as he did in 2016 and there is something about the two times he has been on the

ballot that leads you to think you have to take any polls with a grain of salt that trump supporters might not be able to be pulled accurately. there is a lot to consider, but it certainly feels good if you are sitting in their position then if you are in trump's position. >> simon, that is the sobering part of this conversation. the inescapable reality that we can't just go and i love your substack because i believe that the hopium chronicles is appropriately named, but you can't lose sight of the fact that if you take your foot off the gas pedal it could be disastrous. another big opportunity that will come up to highlight the differences between these campaigns will be the debate. the debate is on the event horizon. i think compared to maybe the cnn interview we saw last night of harris-walz, when you pit kamala harris against donald trump and who cares about the muting and not muting and

whatever, ultimately it is how they perform. simon, your thoughts about the fact that trump says i don't need to prep because i am so good at what i do? >> listen this is going to be an important moment in the campaign. this is the final debate and we are going into this debate i think in a favorable position. it is going to be a critical moment. i am confident kamala harris will perform well. she has been an extraordinary political athlete as we say sometimes in our business. over the past few months she has performed at the upper end of what is possible. she is in the zone. executing at the highest level. the campaign feels like her campaign. i think we go into this feeling good. trump has really been struggling. to be fair since she became a candidate, the campaign has looked confused and they don't really know how to go after her and he has been far more erratic and wild and crazy on

the stump than he even was months ago, so i think the trendlines are good for us and i want to say one thing about the idea of underperforming. remember republicans have been underperforming since dobbs. trump underperformed in public polls during the primaries. the fascists underperformed in europe and france. this is a different election in 2016 than 2020. mark could be right that it may happen, but the trendline has been underperforming, not over performance since dobbs. >> you know, it occurred to me that we have normalized, and i will say the collective week, i won't include you guys, though. there has been the normalization of trump's behavior and conduct, so he will do something crazy and we will say it is just trump doing something crazy. and yet what has happened is when we witness something like the no fireworks interview like the kamala harris interview, it is not because there weren't

fireworks, it is because it is the normal way to do things. there wasn't rambling and sanity happening and i guess what i want to ask you, faiz, i always say we can walk and chew gum at the same time. kamala harris says i'm not going to respond to the stuff from trump because i will stay focused on my mission of making sure the american public understands there is policy in substance, but it could still work. there could still be the/and push back to trump when it comes to kind of the below the belt punches that he is trying to do. >> sometimes there is method to his madness and sometimes he is crazy, not stupid. as he heads into the debate it is to drag everybody else down. that is the goal, to bring you down into my sewer and make this an ugly election. the hope, the joy, the positivity is not working to his advantage. he lives in darkness. he lives in everything is

terrible, america is in decline and he needs to drag people there and fight in the mud and to her credit she is not going there. kamala harris in my view has two major obstacles and challenges in this debate. one is she has closed the gap with donald trump and outperforms him on the question of strength. who i believe is a strong leader? on this question trump has been rocksolid with his base. people perceive that he is a strong leader. harris is now outperforming which is critical and important. that prosecutorial framework is working to her advantage. on the economy do you relate to me and understand what i'm going through? do you understand the challenges of my life and tell me an economic story that reflects what i feel. you can see her working through that. the corporate price gouging and the desire to tackle affordable housing and contrasting that with trump will be most important. he has promised the stars and moon and didn't do any of those

things and now wants to give tax cuts to billionaires. i hope that contrast works really well on the economic lens particularly. >> she does call it the opportunity economy and she led with that last night. faiz, simon, mark, you have to stay with me. we have so much more to get to tonight. the harris-walz campaign has labor day weekend plans that involve time spent in three states that could determine who wins in november, but first of all of the campaign issues the presidential candidates can focus on, donald trump seems fixated on one very specific matter. who exactly is weird? that is next. e like my best bu. yep, had them my whole life. c'mon bo! so we got him and he is a, an absolute joy. daddy's puppy. once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible.

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he suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes. questioning a core part of your identity. >> same old tired playbook. next question please. >> that's it? >> that's it. >> that's it. kamala harris made it clear last night that she would not be taking the bait. the same could not be said for donald trump. >> minnesota, i mean they picked this guy. he is weird.

he is weird. i'm not weird. >> that was donald trump at an event in wisconsin last night. you can tell governor tim walz has gotten under his skin by calling trump and his running mate weird and trump isn't exactly beating the allegations. his campaign spent the week dealing with the fallout from an altercation with staff at arlington national cemetery. hallowed ground where america's war heroes are laid to rest. it comes weeks after trump was caught on camera disrespecting medal of honor recipients, suggesting people who receive awards without putting themselves in physical danger are somehow better off. back with me are faiz shakir, simon rosenberg and mark. mark i want to start with you because i read something you had written about how arlington cemetery, when i say scandal i almost think it minimizes what happens, because it is really

egregious what happened, but you wrote something about how trump is testing the patience of his most loyal supporters. i can't say that these are unforced errors, because i feel like it gives trump and out for conduct that is intentional and after all he was the commander in chief of our armed forces. he should know better. >> absolutely. to sort of distill the lead into this, first of all i thought kamala harris's answer was brilliant in its reserve and dismissiveness in not taking the bait in the same way in her convention speech he said donald trump is an unserious man and then pivoted to the seriousness of the implications. then you look at that and juxtapose it with donald trump taking the bait around the weird thing, but also the distraction you mentioned around the arlington matter which is now a three or four day story and can now only get bigger. the point i was making you were

referring to is he has had some really hard-core supporters inside his base. military families, veterans families, but also pro-life or antiabortion voters. in the last two days he has really, i think, tested the patient's if not the support of both of those groups and this goes to the essence of the defense he is playing and also the willingness in which he is sort of taking the bait or not even taking the bait, causing the bait or causing the distraction and falling into the traps he sets for himself. maybe there is a message to the madness, but it certainly is not a great look for him. >> and simon, that is exactly the case, right? because kamala harris doesn't have to respond. all she has to do is let donald trump be donald trump. he creates the drama, creates the scandal. he creates the headlines in his own actions and so now mark

says he is on the defense, which is where you don't want to be when you are running in the last 67 days before presidential election. >> one of the reasons it will be so hard for donald trump to win the election is that he and j.d. vance are like negative news machines. they are producing negative stories on an industrial scale every week. it is kind of incredible. vance has been an enormous drag on the ticket. it is incredible how much negative press it has generated for the campaign and trump, because he is in this crazy place where he is not comfortable with where he is and he is lashing out and going back to qanon. think of what he did with arlington. this guy is about to get sentenced. he could be put in jail in a few weeks. he is on bond for federal charges and he has now committed a new set of crimes. what he did at arlington cemetery was criminal behavior. he broke federal law on federal property and his staff abused

federal employees. people who work for the united states government and the level of risk that he is taking at this moment because of his legal jeopardy that he is in is stunning to me and i think this campaign is a dystopian nightmare right now. it is an unbelievable mass and they cannot get a single day. when you put them out there it is unbelievable how often he says things that sound crazy and wild. even when he made a statement today about opposing the ballot initiative in florida. the things that he said about why were so bananas and wild and they can't get a clean hit. this is a huge problem for them in the closing months of the election. >> so, faiz, mark says something like arlington appropriately so, clocking day three may be of headlines, all negative. do the democrats continue to

lean into that negativity? i don't mean that as in creating it, i'm saying amplifying it. to simon's points if these are negative headline making machines in j.d. vance and donald trump and again, letting them be who they are, you could do two things at the same time. it is not an impossible thing for the campaign to do. >> i totally agree. i was reflecting back to 2016 when donald trump would do a lot of the same behaviors. attacking john mccain for being a p.o.w. going after a gold star family. at the time there was a novelty. he is playing politics really differently. at this point kamala harris said it best. it is tired and it is old and you can sense that. he doesn't get the same effect from it because they are revealing what we already know about him and the country has moved on from this. i hope i have about donald trump and defeating him this time is that dobbs happened and

january 6 happened. the trials happened. they all affirmed the things we don't want as a nation, don't want as a leader and i'm hopeful whoever may have voted for him in 2016 and 20, that there are more people willing to say i am done with it. >> but we've got two impeachments for donald trump and for indictments. convicted of 34 felonies. january 6. i mean the list goes on and on, but regardless of those points, it is a really small spread in those battleground states. so i agree, it is an old, tired playbook that we are dealing with, but it seems to be the case that you have to harp on that and you have to create the juxtaposition of the prosecutor versus the felon. chaos versus competence. democracy versus the dystopian reality that a second trump term would be. >> i agree.

i think that will all play out starkly at the debate if kamala harris does what i think she is capable of doing and is probably preparing to do. i don't think donald trump will be prepared to play defense. i think the larger point as simon said, it is a dystopian nightmare of a campaign. the question is is it going to be something owned by the republican party and donald trump or by all of us? because as you mentioned it is an incredibly close race and we have seen time and time again that we don't really have a handle on this. so i think that the indicators are certainly very bullish on the part of the harris campaign and democrats in general, but again, in november we are going to find out what kind of country we have and ultimately we could be very surprised on election day. >> faiz shakir, simon rosenberg, mark leibovich, thanks for getting us launched this evening. it's good to see you.

thanks for being here. still ahead tonight, polls show donald trump and kamala harris locked in a dead heat in the battleground states that could determine the selection. that is why both campaigns are closing out the summer by spending labor day weekend in the rustbelt. could their visits change the trajectory of the race come fall? that is next. s, symptoms can sometimes hold you back. but now there's skyrizi, so you can be all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin yeah, that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ with skyrizi, you can show up with 90% clearer skin. and if you have psoriatic arthritis, skyrizi can help you move with less joint pain, stiffness,swelling, and fatigue. skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur.

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with with 67 days to election day and 11 days until the next presidential debate, the harris- walz campaign is turning its attention to key battleground states. if you look at the recent polling mentioned earlier this hour, it's no wonder why. the latest bloomberg morning consult pulling shows vice president kamala harris leading donald trump across six of the states surveyed, all within the margin of error. they are tied in arizona. harris has an eight point lead in wisconsin, which appears to be an outlier, but in pennsylvania she is up for points. there is no polling in the state of michigan that shows harris trailing trump by just one point and that is well within the margin of error. the bottom line is that the presidential race is neck and neck in these crucial states and the campaign is putting in

the work over the labor day weekend to close the gap. on monday tim walz will make his third trip to wisconsin since joining the ticket to speak at milwaukee's labor fest. kamala harris's schedule includes a campaign event in detroit, michigan, as well as a visit to pittsburgh, pennsylvania with president joe biden, their first joint campaign event since harris accepted the democratic presidential nomination. next thursday, biden is set to make his first solo visit to wisconsin since dropping out to campaign for kamala harris. joining me now are three people who harry will -- who hail from the state the campaign will be visiting. state representative and a member of the advisory board for the harris-walz campaign and currently running to be pennsylvania's next auditor general. the chair of the democratic party of wisconsin. i want to thank all of you for being here tonight. i would say the three

musketeers, but i don't want to see like i am denigrating you. you guys are kind of the stars of the dnc last week, from what i could see, so i appreciate you being here this evening. malcolm, i would love to start with you. kamala harris making her second visit to pittsburgh in two weeks. talk about the history in your battleground states because as you heard in the last two segments i did with the other guests, i believe in the vibe. i believe in the energy, but i want to make sure it is converting to real votes. >> that is what is so exciting, katie. that you do have people since kamala harris officially became the nominee who are embracing the fact that we have a candidate for president who doesn't spend every single day bullying people. who doesn't spend every single day talking about themselves, but who is actually laying out

a vision of how we make life better for people. i know, what an idea, but we see kamala harris and tim walz doing that every day. that joy, that energy is really materializing in terms of volunteers on the ground. just today the 50th campaign office has been open for the campaign. i just wrapped up a 10 county tour across some of the most rural parts of northeastern pennsylvania and what you see even in rural pennsylvania is an excitement and energy that is leading people to get engaged for the first time. during my tour i was campaigning for myself and democrats up and down the ballot and obviously top of the ticket. every single stop i was meeting people who were saying kamala harris and tim walz are the first campaign i have ever volunteered for. they are not just saying i'm going to vote and that's enough, but they recognize the importance of electing democrats up and down the

ballot and they recognize their power. there is nothing more powerful than talking to your neighbor about what is at stake. >> malcolm you mentioned the campaign offices for harris- walz. 16 of them are in rural areas that trump one in 2020. what is the secret sauce? what will it take to make sure? is it just the fact that the infrastructure was invested and built while the trump campaign and rnc was not doing it? is it just the fact that the work is being done in those critical, rural areas? >> do not sleep on rural pennsylvania. there are so many people who have, i don't know what view they have that it is called outside of the commonwealth. people say just write those areas off. they are going to be for the republicans and so why showup? it is shocking to people that a young black kid from north philly spent so much time in my

campaign in the most rural parts of pennsylvania because in those communities you have folks who are against all odds, engaging and engaging in some instances at great risk to themselves. there is no risk when you put up a sign in philadelphia or pittsburgh that someone will throw something at your house because you put up a sign for a democrat, but in certain parts of this country depending on where you are, you might have people who heckle you or make you uncomfortable because you are actively showing support for democratic candidates. what you are seeing across rural pennsylvania is they don't care. the excitement and division that vice president harris is laying out for the future has people so energized that they are talking to neighbors who they know are registered republicans, but drawing that contrast. one of your previous guests said it, but donald trump, it

is old. this idea that i have to look over my shoulder. that every person is an enemy. that every person is out to get us. that we should not trust anyone in our community. that is old. that is stressful. people are sick of doing it and people want to look at their neighbors as part of how we solve problems, not look at our neighbors as constant enemies and i think we are in a position where donald trump has created this hatfield mccoy scenario where we don't even know why we are supposed to hate each other, but we are doing it because donald trump said so. enough of that. we love our neighbors. we are showing up to every corner of the commonwealth and talking about what democrats will do up and down the ballot. >> been, it is not just the fundraising that has been a juggernaut for the harris-walz campaign. the thing i have noticed that i think is the substantive power of the campaign are the volunteers. 42,000 and counting in your state of wisconsin.

why is that notable? the number of course is spectacular at 42,000, but why does that make such a difference in a battleground state like wisconsin? >> 42,000 volunteers since harris became nominee in wisconsin is a meaningful number because the biden margin of victory in wisconsin was 28,000. we had twice as many volunteer sign up as the number of votes that put biden over the top in 2020 which is the state along with michigan and pennsylvania, we put biden over the top nationally. if every one of those volunteers goes out and they knock on 40 doors in the neighborhood for a few weekends between now and the election, they will rack up multiple times biden's margin of victory in our state alone. persuadable voters who they encourage to turn out. i was talking to the chair in western wisconsin, the third congressional district where we could beat the republican congressman and reelect tammy baldwin and put harris-walz

over the top and she was telling me about conversations she was having with voters so you might think on paper are absolutely republican voters, but they are taking in new information about kamala harris. her focus on building home ownership and helping people to get ahead in the economy and it is resonating. a ton of people are taking a fresh look in a country that has been so polarized. i think a lot of people are asking, maybe this is someone i should look at. i want to say this is still a very close election. wisconsin is basically tied and i think that is true across the blue wall and the battleground states. if you are thinking about volunteering, now is the time. sign up because we will need all of the help that we can get. we have to expect high republican turnout, too, but there are a ton of voters who felt like they knew everything they needed to know about biden and trump. now they have clear views about trump, but they are interested in learning more about harris

and that creates an opportunity for us. we've got to use it. >> one of the powerful images i remember from last weeks dnc was the gigantic project 2025 book that you put on the podium when you came to speak. it is the substance of that project 2025 that really hits hard for all americans in different walks of life and in different ways. first off detroit, clearly sending a message of the importance of a battleground states like michigan. from what you are hearing from voters in your state, do they understand project 2025? is there effective messaging happening so they understand how a second republican administration will impact them in an incredibly negative way? >> they absolutely do. even weeks before the convention there were billboards where i hail from that said project 2025, google it. i tell you what, people are googling it. it became one of the top google

searches and the more people learn about what it is, the more they hate it. it is not a surprise donald trump is trying to run away from it and claim he knows nothing about it. just in the four days we were at the democratic national convention there were two mailers that went out to voters across michigan from trump's campaign saying i don't know anything about project 2025. you turn it over and then it lays out the things he does care about, like mass deportations, which again are wildly unpopular in michigan. almost three quarters of michiganders do not support deportation. they support a clear path to citizenship as a state with the auto industry in places like ours, built on immigrants and people working hard and getting to know their neighbors and getting ahead. people do know what project 2025 is. they do not like it. every aspect whether it is taxes for working families, reproductive rights, climate change, to eliminate any reference of climate or climate

change in all government documents as if it does not exist, that is not going to fly in the great lakes state where we are responsible for 85% of the nation's freshwater. 20% of the world's freshwater. it is resonating and you can tell trump is very much on his heels because he can't stop talking about it because he knows how deeply unpopular it is. >> malcolm kenyatta, ben wikler, please stay with us. i have lots more to talk to you about including how donald trump's message is landing in a must when blue allstate with kamala harris surging in the polls and next hour, trump's very busy schedule next month, in court. we will be right back. we're the "pack it, ship it, guarantee it" store. we know running a small business takes a lot of grit and hustle. so we're the "stress less" store. and the "we've got your back" store.

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you ever noticed you ever noticed that nobody knows what her last name is. i go, okay, i'm going to give you the first name, tommy the last name. i say kamala, they have no idea who she is. but as you find out you notice our poll numbers are starting to skyrocket. >> it's kamala. that was former president trump earlier today at a campaign rally in johnstown, pennsylvania. he made two very strange claims there, the first, that no one knows of the claims of our sitting vice president. and second, that his own poll

numbers are skyrocketing. in fact, as we have discussed this past hour, trump has seen his poll numbers drop, with harris cutting his lead in key battleground states. i am back with representative malcolm, a member of the national advisory board for the harris-walz campaign. and michigan state senator malory, thank you for all of you for sticking around. i want to go to you right now, i read this great kind of profile about you and this comment came up in it and it said his talent is getting people to show up, he does this by framing every race as the election of a lifetime. but you know, been, this one is point and i think what's happened along the way, we talked about in the last segments, was the fact that it really is still democracy versus autocracy, it is still chaos versus competency, but we now have this more positive energy that we can now focus on

the important things like policy, where before, it just seemed to be somewhere stark. but that's exactly right, we have had a series of elections, 16, 18, 20, 22, right it was like we are at the edge of the cliff, maybe we have been pushed off the edge of a cliff, we had to grab a branch while we were falling off the cliff side and pull ourselves up by our fingernails. now, we are not just at the edge of the cliff, things could go terribly wrong if project 2025 becomes national policy, but we have a real chance to build a brighter future for everyone. i have described it to people how we could do this spring be watching us national voting rights legislation is passed into law is the women's health protection act to encode roe versus wade into statute, to sign it into law by president harris, so many other critical pieces of legislation can become a reality. there is a real source of joy and freedom and opportunity in this election, not just the

dried about preventing a disaster. that has given a new life to campaigns on the ground for state legislature in a state like wisconsin that just ended its gerrymander, all the way to the presidential ticket. and i think that that joy, that fighting for something is part of why we are going to win this fall. >> malory, your state is next door to jd vance's state. your take on this midwestern guy , whether or not your voters are actually buying that. >> oh my goodness, no, nothing about jd vance's screens authentic midwesterner. every signal just screams phony and cruel, frankly. i mean, he is a guy who couldn't even figure out how to pick donuts, number one, that was a very strange thing, i have never seen anybody walk into a donut shop and say whatever makes sense. you're in a donut shop, have some fun. charlie, local reporter, got the opportunity to ask jd

vance's what makes you smile, and he couldn't say anything. he said that is a gotcha question, and then just started rattling off all the things that made him angry. he could have said his children, his wife, the country, the opportunity to travel the country, the weather in michigan, he can't even hold a normal conversation. so, it is not even a normal human, and certainly not an authentic midwesterner. >> i got less than a minute and i wanted to end with you. your messaging has always been positive actually, the years we have known each other, it has always been positive. is it working in your state, your key estate, that people are just tired of the weirdness, people are tired of that hostility, people are tired of the hatred and vitriol, and they are ready, as ben said, to go up the mountain and not over the cliff. >> no, 2016, there was at least a pretense that trump was speaking for voters who were frustrated with a system that

so often left working people on the back burner. this year, there is no pretense. it is all about him. and i think voters are saying, and people watching are saying, does donald trump really care about rick who i met, who is waiting six to 18 months for routine surgery because of the consolidation -- corporate consolidation of hospitals in our rural communities, does he care about them? does he care about the worker i met this week was being this classified on the job, losing three bucks an hour that he has earned because his boss is a cheapskate? does he care about that person? no, he only cares about himself. most pennsylvanians are hard- working, law-abiding folks who don't have 34 criminal convictions, and they don't look at him and say, oh yeah, he gets my life. he is in his jet, or he is in court, neither of those reflect the hard-working values of pennsylvania's working-class families. kamala harris and thomas are speaking to that, democrats are, and that's why we are going to win.

>> thanks to all of you for your time this evening, i always appreciate it. coming up next hour, donald trump's ever-changing stance on abortion changed yet again today. stay with us. >> [ music ] t for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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experience how great splenda stevia can be. grown on our farm, enjoyed at your table. (♪♪) welcome back to are a special two hour addition of alex wagner tonight. i am katie filling, in for alex. one of the closest presidential races we have ever experienced in this country. although george w. bush won the election by just five electoral votes, it was al gore who won the popular vote that year. when you start to slice and dice the electorate into different voting groups, that race starts to look way less tight. check this out. in 2000, george w. bush dramatically outperformed his opponent among white evangelical voters, winning 68% among that group. in 2004, he increased that

support by 10 points. evangelical support for the republican presidential candidate remained relatively steady for the next two elections. and then look what happened in 2016. donald trump won the support of 81% of white evangelical voters. donald trump's ability to supercharge the evangelical vote has largely been attributed as the reason he was able to win the presidency the first time he ran. without a strong evangelical turnout, it becomes much more difficult for donald trump to chart a repeat path to the presidency, which is why headlines like these today are a five alarm fire for the trump campaign. the "white evangelicals are upset at recent trump and vance statements on abortion." the last 24 hours have laid bare the challenges of running the first republican campaign for president in 50 years.

in an america where abortion is not a guaranteed constitutional right. in addition to voting for president this november, florida will also vote on whether abortion access should be protected in their state up to 24 weeks of pregnancy. right now, abortion is illegal after just six weeks, which is before most women even suspect that they could be pregnant. last night, donald trump, who himself is a florida voter, told nbc news that he believes the six week ban in his state is too short. he said when he votes in november, he will be voting that we need more than six weeks. which seemed to imply that he would be voting to protect abortion access in florida. in that same interview, donald trump announced that if he is elected to a second term, he would find a way to fund ivf treatment for all people struggling with infertility. which is the newest target of the evangelical antiabortion sect of the hard right.

and so, that 12 punch from donald trump, his apparent newfound support for abortion and ivf has set off a firestorm among the evangelicals that trump needs to win the election. last night, the president of an influential antiabortion group called donald trump personally. according to nbc news, she was calling to ask to clarify whether or not he had suddenly decided to support abortion. she told trump, it is imperative that you are clear, because there is confusion now that you may be in support of this. and the consequences of that confusion are already playing out. the president of antiabortion student group says volunteers are refusing now to knock on doors for donald trump if his stance on abortion is not "corrected." that visceral response from the far right today has set the trump campaign into a kind of tailspin as they attempted to backtrack on transit pro-

abortion comments. in the last few hours, trump himself said that regardless of whatever he said yesterday, he does intend to vote against the florida ballot measure that would do that in his state. but would that be enough to satisfy's evangelical base? the danger here is not that these voters will suddenly run and decided to vote for kamala harris, the danger is that all of trump's flip-flopping and flailing and talking out of both sides of his mouth has caused his base to believe that he is really not the antiabortion warrior he promised to be. and that instead of turning out to vote for him on november 5th, they're just going to stay home. joining us now is mckay, staff writer at the atlantic. i want to thank you for being here, this is a really important conversation, right? because trump, i believe, make that promise and said i am going to give you supreme court justices, i'm going to overturn roe v. wade, he takes so much

pride in the fact that you successfully got roe v. wade turned overturn, but in the span of 24 hours, he cannot take ap!iwb'!kw3consistent fshp abortion. >> yeah, i think that is really striking and i think it is important to understand the context here. in 2016, conservative evangelicals essentially made what a lot of them realized was a bargain by getting behind trump. most of them, if they were being honest with themselves, and many of them even said so outright, knew that donald trump was not an especially righteous or godly man. they knew that he was even probably not a really pro-life person, right? he had a long track record of talking about abortion in a fairly moderate or even liberal terms. but they made this calculation in 2016 that he would owe them if they showed up for them. if they delivered him the presidency, he would deliver for them by appointing conservative justices to the court who would overturn roe v. wade. now, he basically did deliver

on his promise in 2016, the conservative evangelicals i have talked to up until about a year or two ago, would say we made this bed and it paid off massively. but now, they see donald trump waffling on this issue. he is talking about subsidizing ivf for all women in america. he is talking about leaving abortion to the states. and in this next run of the battle over abortion, the pro- life movement is seeing that donald trump is not nearly as committed as they thought he was, and not only that, that they can't control him in the way that they thought they could. and that, i think, is what is delivering a lot of his consternation on the pro-life front. these people thought that they had him under their thumb, and now they're not so sure, and i think that's where the division is coming from and that's why you are hearing so much angst

from a lot of these pro-life voices. >> mckay, it has got to be such an insult to their intelligence, this evangelical base of voters, that trump suggests if not outright says that he can play them. he can promise one thing, do another. i don't think inconsistent is the right adjective for him, because when he goes out and promises you get a car, you get ivf, and you get ivf, and yet, not to make light of it, fetal personhood is a very real thing for the evangelical base and they have made it clear that ivf challenges their beliefs, because even though, yes, they are pro-life, they have a concern about what is happening to the eggs, the embryos that are created during this ivf process. and so, do you think that there is enough here, enough meat on the bone for the evangelical base to say, you know what, i am an intelligent voter and i'm not going to be played by you, donald trump? >> yeah, i think it really comes down to who has the power,

who has the upper hand in this kind of arranged marriage between the social conservative movement and donald trump. i think a lot of social conservatives believed up until recently that they were the ones pulling the strings. and look, i think they still have a case to make here. the fact that donald trump has slipped on the florida abortion law suggests that they still do have some power and they are flexing that muscle there. but at the end of the day, like if these voters don't believe that donald trump is going to deliver for them anymore, and they see him out there, quartering moderate swing voters who are more pro-choice, who are pro-ivf, i could see a situation where at least some of them decide to stay home. i heard it even in my reporting over the summer with the evangelical right, a lot of them have talked themselves into this idea over the past eight years that donald trump is not only kind of a blunt instrument

in god's hand, but that he truly is god's champion, and if you hear it in the prayers that are delivered at his rallies, you hear it in some of the rhetoric that is evangelical supporters used in talking about him. i will say, that rhetoric will evaporate very quickly if these people believe that donald trump is going to advance any kind of pro-choice policies. and if they start to believe he is not actually on their side, if he is not going to do their bidding, those voters will stay home. they are not going to vote for democrats, but they are not going to vote for him, either. >> i am probably going to misquote the scripture here, mckay, but what is it, beware of false idols? maybe that is apropos here. thanks for being here and getting us started in this hour, i appreciate you. and i want to bring into the conversation now congresswoman chantel brown, democrat from jd vance's home state of ohio. ohio passed its own ballot initiative last year, which enshrined the right to abortion in the state.

congresswoman, thank you so much for being here this evening. we got to talk about jd vance because he is a part of this calculus and he seems relatively consistent in terms of his positions on abortion, definitely consistent on his positions of the value of a woman. but does vance actually add anything to the mix when it comes to making sure that trump can maintain that evangelical base? >> i'm not clear that jd vance adds anything to anything, but i should start off by thanking you for having me back on the program. as a resident of ohio and having lived under jd vance's short-term as a senator, i can assure the american people that ohioans are experiencing buyers remorse. this is a person who has been clear about his stance as it relates to abortion. not supporting even exceptions, this is the position that jd

vance has taken, supporting that women stay in violent relationship. so, you talk about his position on value, i would say it is in value. he doesn't value women, there is an anti-women sentiment that is very clear in this campaign, and jd vance is the epitome of it all. >> you know, in a post-dobbs world, the backlash has been tangible, profound, and swift. we saw it in 2022 in the midterms. we are definitely going to see it in november. the harris-walz campaign is launching a tour for reproductive rights, starting in my state of florida which does have a ballot initiative on the ballot in november. ohio really was the test case, was it not? you have used that phrase to talk about ohio. is this boat going to hinge on reproductive freedom, in addition of course to all the other important issues and the kitchen table issues, but reproductive freedom is linked now to gwen and tim walz and

their journey to have children, but also jd vance's valueless opinion of women. we have seen that, and i feel like it is now all incredibly interrelated. >> absolutely. when you talk about ohio, this is a state where we had a 10- year-old rape victim who had to flee the state to get the care that we need. this abortion is healthcare and i want people to be clear about that. so, even in the evangelical community, this is something that i would caution them to warn them that this is forced birth. we should not have a 10-year-old that would be forced to have a child, that is the baby having a baby. that is absolutely ridiculous. we are also the state where we had a young woman, brittany watts, who had a natural miscarriage in her bathroom, and because the fetus got clogged in the toilet, she was going to be charged with abuse of a fetus. so, criminalizing abortion and women's health is something that is on the radar for the jd vance and donald trump agenda. so, this is what we are dealing

with here, and i would caution people. what i am encouraged by is that when people get the information, they show up. even in a state that is considered red like ohio. and there are broad coalitions of folks. it is not just a democratic issue, there are republicans, independents, black, white, all of the people who understand that abortion care is also an economic issue. making people, forcing them to have births or making them unable to decide when they are ready to start a family is not freedom. and this is exactly what the trump-jd vance ticket is about. they are about taking away freedoms, taking away women's rights to make their own health care decisions, and [ inaudible ] this is a decision that should be left up to individuals, their families, their doctor, and their god. government has no place in it.

so, i would just remind folks that ohio was the test case and we were successful in making sure we were able to enshrine voting rights into our constitution, but we are not safe, because jd vance and donald trump are on the ticket, and despite trump's flip- flopping, we know he is duplicitous, we can't trust a word that he says. >> you know, i had my daughter through ivf, i'm very transparent about it, very open, i talk about it. when walz and tim walz talking about it. the fact that we now have a vice presidential nominee on a major party like tim walz who went through this process, it creates a level of humanization that i think will resonate with several voters. i like to say, too, congresswoman, republicans get abortions, republicans use contraception, and they do stuff like ivf. do you think that in your state, they look at somebody like jd vance in the juxtaposition of him versus somebody like tim walz, who

emotionally embraces the fact that there is this painful journey that a lot of people want to go through, that is at odds with what the republican party wants, do you think the voters are sitting there and saying that humanity is what we need and what we want in the white house? >> i absolutely think they do. i think it is evident in the amount of support that this campaign has been able to galvanize in such a short time. since the addition of governor walz, we have seen the donations continue to pour in, the volunteer numbers continue to grow. because these are people who actually care about other people. when you consider the fact that donald trump and jd vance, particularly donald trump, he is not fighting for the people, he is actually making sure -- doing everything he can to try to keep himself from going into jail. it has not been a large part of the conversation, this man is a convicted felon, of 34 counts. and so, he is not concerned

about women's rights, your rights, my rights, or tim walz's ability to be able to create a family or make a family under his own terms. this is a man who is strictly about himself, and he will say and do anything he can to protect himself and to prevent himself from going to jail. >> congresswoman chantel brown, i appreciate you being here, love the energy and honesty. thank you so much. >> thank you. still more to come tonight, including donald trump aligning himself with culture warriors, mom's for e. they came out of nowhere just a few years ago, gained tremendous political power, but there are signs that their brand has lost a little steam, maybe a lot. more on that, just ahead. >> [ music ] ] philip: when your kid is hurting and there's nothing you can do about it, that's the worst feeling in the world. kristen: i don't think anybody ever

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i am proud to have laid out by far the most aggressive, most visionary plan to liberate our children from the marxist lunatics and perverts who have invested our educational system. they are perverts. >> [ cheers and applause ] >> that was donald trump's message last year at the summit of the far right political group, moms for liberty. even if you don't know moms for liberty by name, you are probably still familiar with their work. the group got their start protesting against mask and vaccine requirements in schools. and have since transitioned

their mission to banning books from school libraries and classrooms, fighting for diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, and trying to get local school board members they don't see as conservative enough voted out of office. the groups tactics and ideology are so aggressive that last year, the southern poverty law center labeled moms for liberty an extremist organization. tonight, trump was back at that moms for liberty so-called joyful warriors annual summit. in d.c. this year, they're doing what they're calling a special fireside chat with donald trump. but given how extreme moms for liberty is, i actually think it is an open question whether trump continuing to tie himself to the group is a political asset or a liability. this week, the tampa bay times reported that of the 14 candidates that moms for liberty backed in recent school board elections, only three won. another six lost, and five are

headed to runoffs in november. and when you look at where these moms for liberty backed candidates lost, the picture is starker. even sarasota county, where republicans hold a 2-1 majority over democrats, two moms for liberty hopefuls lost, and that reflects a national trend. last year, all across the country, fewer than one third of the school board candidates endorsed by moms for liberty won their elections. birds of a feather flock together, so will trump's continued connections to moms for liberty be a political albatross? joining me now is jennifer jenkins, she has served on the school board in florida since 2020, when she defeated an incumbent who went on to cofound moms for liberty. she now chairs educated we stand, an organization that aims to limit the influence of far right extremists on public education. jennifer, thanks for taking the time to join us tonight. full disclosure, i have a nine- year-old. i say she is nine, going on 30.

she is a fourth grader in public school in florida, so i have a very, very invested interest in what happens in our school system. i have to ask you, though, i obviously follow these races very carefully and closely, and the number of losses that are being backed up by moms for liberty backed candidates for school board races especially is pretty remarkable. >> it is remarkable. you know, unfortunately, we have seen this far right extremism, not just in the state of florida, we see it in all 50 states, that's why i felt to organize the opposition with educated we stand. our goal is to elect pro- education candidates for a school board. by doing so, we are going to show how we can fight back in states like that that are trending extreme. because if we can win here in florida, we can win in all 50 states. and that's exactly what we did in our recent election. 88 percent of our endorsed candidates were successful

across florida, against opponents who ran for moms for liberty and ron desantis. and one of our candidates who you mentioned just before successfully won in sarasota, a founding county for moms for liberty. when we let the voters know who the candidates are that support extremism, they will lose, regardless of the political makeup of that area. >> jennifer, for those viewers who are tuning in that maybe don't understand how extreme we are talking when it comes to moms for liberty, a couple of examples of what they have done, what their mission is to do, and why it is the case that you think the backlash now has been so extreme in response to what they're trying to do in our public schools. >> i have, unfortunately, lived it personally. &&v■am a mom, an educator, married to middle school history teacher, and after i defeated the founder of moms for liberty in my race in 2020, we became ground h an ideological takeover of

public education. moms for liberty started showing up to my school boarlg meetings, they caused chaos and habit. it started with masks, and then quickly grew into bigotry against lgbtq ñh#1p,.éñstudents staff. qto criticizing african american history and curriculum. .cny-2■wqti r'tims that ignited with protests in front of my home, vandalism of ) my property, following me and my family around. it has gotten absolutely, incredibly insane u to what is happening in our school boards, and unfortunately, they have taken over what is going on in our legislature in tallahassee, and it has allowed this extremist ideology to seep into the laws and the department of education. >> and let's be clear, jennifer, it is not just donald trump, ron desantis is a political bedfellow with moms for liberty. this is what happened in the latest races. desantis endorsed 23 candidates, and 11 lost and six

are headed to runoffs in november. so, it is not just the donald trump association and that guilt by association that seems to be doing damage. the ron desantis failed presidential candidate, failed governor of florida, also his endorsement seems to be the kiss of death if you are running for public office here in florida. why is it then that you think that there has been this galvanized response that the culture wars that have been waged here, talk about ground zero, in the state of florida, why that is not happening anymore and why this could be -- florida could be the state that shows the culture wars just don't work, no matter where you are in the united states. >> i think it is important to recognize that as we are hearing about project 2025 here in florida, it feels like we have chosen to listen to the audiobook version on doubletime, because we are living it. florida republicans are doing everything in their power to

continuously undermine voters who reject their extremism. the florida department of education is starting to look like a participation trophy case of people desantis appoints after his school board candidates lose their races. republicans like desantis and trump share a complete disregard for a government that reflects the will of it constituents, and they will do anything to impose their agenda, and that's what they are telling us with moms for liberty wanted they want to dismantle the department of education. they want to cut title one funding and end early childhood programs like head start, and end protections for students with disabilities. so, when they tell us who they are, we have to believe them. we have to organize and we have to vote them out of office. >> jennifer, quickly before i have to let you go, i want people to understand, you are not a professional politician. you're not somebody who said i'm going to be running for office for my life. you ran for school board [ inaudible ] with what was going on and how it was impacting you, your family,

your child's education. >> absolutely, you know, again, i said i am a mom, i meant an educator, my husband is a teacher. i went and fought with my fellow educators, fighting for fair wage increases. i was making $38,000 with a masters degree in the state of florida, and ever since ron desantis took office, we have dropped to 50th in the nation for average teacher pay. i truly ran because i care about public education, i care about my colleagues, my students, and the future of my own daughter who is in third grade. >> jennifer jenkins, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having me. when we come back, donald trump's summer break from court is about to end. what is on his back to the courtroom calendar is coming up next with the great andrew wiseman. >> [ music ]

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as we as we head into labor day weekend and the start of september, donald trump is heading not only into the heart of the election season, he is going to have a jam-packed legal calendar as well. next week, in the federal election interference case in d.c., the special counsel's

office and trump's lawyers are set to appear before judge tanya chutkan for the first time since the supreme court upended the case with their ruling on presidential immunity last june. and in a surprise this week, special counsel jack smith filed a superseding indictment, reread and to address the supreme court's ruling, but still charging trump with the same four felony crimes. trump himself does not have to attend next thursday's hearing, but the case will likely be on his mind. when just five days later, he faces off against vice president kamala harris in their first presidential debate. joining me now for more, former federal prosecutor and fbi general counsel andrew weissmann, who co-hosts msnbc's podcast, prosecuting donald trump andrew, thanks for being here. you and i love to noodle all things legal, all the time. so, we would just kind of opened the curtain here and let people into how you and i talk about this. where hitting the refresh

button, that's why i have my computer here. where supposed to get a status report in the d.c. federal election interference case. your thoughts about what you think that report is going to look like? >> sure, so, the reason we are on tender hooks is this is the filing that jack smith said he needed more time, he needed three more weeks to submit, and of course, donald trump agreed to that because it meant delay. and so, today, we are expecting this joint filing. what that means is that the parties will submit one set of papers. however, they can point out that they disagree on certain facts and scheduling issues. so, this is really the chance for both sides to tell judge tanya chutkan how they want to sort of proceed, and sort of when they want to proceed. so, first, how, that is an issue of whether there will just be legal briefing or whether there will be a hearing.

what people refer to, including myself, as this sort of mini trial. whether there will be a an actual hearing where the judge actually hears witnesses to talk about the allegations and the indictment, so she can determine whether they are subject to immunity or not. whether the actions taken by the former president as president or whether they were taken by him as candidate. so, that is sort of step one, how they sort of suggest and foresee with respect to a hearing or not. i have to say, if it were me, i would say that certain things require a hearing on the supreme court seemed to agree. and the second issue is when. donald trump, we can be sure, will say that that should be sometime between never and the year 3000. he is basically going to be saying i never want to have this happen, and he is obviously hoping if he wins the presidency, [ inaudible ] the big question is whether jack

smith will say that that hearing should be scheduled promptly, meaning before the general election, and, you know, again, if it were me, i would say we should just follow normal rules. and so, the idea of this being delayed even further, as you noted at the outset, this case has been on hold since december, because the supreme court has sat on it and really put its thumb on the scale, in really denying the public's right to a sort of speedy trial of these issues. for it to be decided one way or the other. and so, that is the thing, i don't know what jack smith will say, but those are the two things i'm really looking for. what is the procedure they are going to propose and when will it occur? >> i mean, we have incredibly dialed in viewers here at msnbc, and they know that the deadline is at midnight, so literally things could get filed at 11:59 and still

technically be in compliance. we have seen this happen as lawyers. but because we have employers and litigators, andrew, the reality is judge tanya chutkan doesn't have to agree with what the parties says. this case was set for trial, andrew, before it went up on appeal all the way to the supreme court, and i know there is this immunity rolling which kind of changed the board a little bit here, but chutkan could say this is great, guys, file that motion to dismiss in the next two weeks, we are going to have oral arguments, and by the way, a hearing that happens before november. i want to make sure we of course manage people's expectations, but the reality is judge chutkan, she could say this case was set for trial, you were pretty much ready to go, the facts have been changed, in fact they had been pared down, because now you have a superseding indictment. >> absolutely, remember, this case was initially set for trial march 4th, that was the

trial date that judge chutkan said we would have had a verdict one way or the other if the supreme court hadn't interfered, in my view, improperly, in terms of its ruling, but we are where we are. you are right that judge chutkan obviously does not have to do what either side once, and she can ask a bunch of questions. i will say, in a high-profile matter, you know, having done high-profile cases, it's not a great look if the department of justice takes a position that judge chutkan then sort of has to take a more aggressive position, saying why are you agreeing to such a delay, for instance? and she has to be the person who is pushing it forward. so, that's something i was sort of very conscious of, of making sure that we weren't -- as when i was a prosecutor, saying to the judge, you take the heat on this, we are going to sit back

and let you decide. and so, you know, i do think that you are absolutely right that judge chutkan can disagree with one or both parties, in a high-profile that there should be a sort of lengthier schedule here. >> andrew, less than a minute, i want to ask you, what are the chances that there is a stipulation between jack smith as special counsel and donald trump's legal team as to certain conduct within the superseding indictment being private conduct, based upon what the immunity ruling is, or do you anticipate donald trump fighting tooth and nail any type of designation by jack smith that conduct in the indictment is private conduct? >> i anticipate they're going to fight everything. i think they are going to say that there is an argument that at least in part, everything in the indictment is presidential. even if -- and they will take the position that even if it is 1% or 2% presidential and 98 percent as a candidate, they

will say that is sufficient for him to be immune. and they will take the maximalist view, and they are very much, i think, going to be playing for the supreme court. they know that they can have another bite at the apple in taking this up to the supreme court again, as this proceeds. so, there is no question that there will not be a trial anytime soon, but i think the thing i am keeping my eyes on is whether there will be a hearing where we could get additional evidence that we have not heard before. you know, the biggest one would be mike pence, the former vice president, who is quite notable in not supporting donald trump, for many people would say a very good reason, because not only was he hummed out to dry, pun intended, but there were people who were actually seeking to hang him and the former president was not doing anything to stop them. >> well, i ran out of time, but

i want you to bookmark this conversation, because i think the pivotal witness that it's going to be is not going to be mike pence, it is going to be kenneth, that is who is going to be the big linchpin here, remember this conversation. >> we are going to take bets. >> i am on it. andrew weissmann, thanks for being here, always good to see you. still to come tonight, as kamala harris's campaign reaches out to latino voters, is she gaining any ground? we will get some in-depth reporting on that, coming up next. >> [ music ] ] hildren. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments we start by getting to know each other. so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission-based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest. (husband) so how do your management fees work? (fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

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by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. as the as the democratic primary got underway, the biden campaign quietly acknowledged the painful truth. the president was struggling with a group of voters that he needed to win and poll after poll, latinos were showing signs of moving toward donald trump. to figure out what was going wrong, donald trump held focus groups in las vegas with latino voters. the feedback from sessions in april foreshadowed what was to come. latino voters worried that biden was too old. they preferred, harris. as one voter asked, can i just vote for her instead of biden? well now they can. and among latino voters in key battleground states,, harris is leading donald trump by nearly

20 points. with harris at the top of the ticket, democrats have also improved their standing among young hispanics by 17 points. the latino voter research firm techies calls it a latino reset, writing, quote, democrats are back in business. joining me now is adrian punishing, national political reporter and editor at politico, and the journalist behind this important report on the effort by democrats to understand the latino voters, particularly by vice president kamala harris point adrian, it's a pleasure to have you join us tonight. clearly i'm in florida so this is a really important topic for me. so i'm thrilled to see the numbers. wasn't really just as much of a reset as just getting kamala harris to be the top of the ticket? >> first of all, katie, thank you for having me. in many ways it was. latino voters were not enjoying the choices that were there with president biden and former donald trump, like many other

voters, and it wasn't that these voters were going to go to donald trump en masse, they just were considering not voting, staying home, just voters saying that he was too old. in nevada and arizona in 2020, brookings institute found that young latinos were the difference and helped joe biden get over the top in arizona and in nevada. what happened with the change was you had suddenly young latino voters and latinos, women in general, hispanic women in general, who are excited, energized, enthusiastic. their voter registration targets found latinos are 150% more than they were this time in 2020. so there's real excitement and there's real potential for vice president harris to reach the levels that joe biden had in 2020, and possibly surpass them. >> the harris campaign has released a new ad that emphasizes two to potential voters that she, not donald trump, will be able to deal with the border. do those issues, like the

border and immigration, do those resonate with latino voters? >> you know i think that it's always been -- people have always talked about immigration as a passion point. they don't want to hear offensive things being said. we've seen in many ways how donald trump has thrown that on his head and has gone after the border and talked about undocumented immigrants in very harsh ways. one of the things i found interesting, i talked to mike medrano, one of the cofounders of the lincoln project, and he talked about how he was really impressed that kamala harris had sort of turned around some of that democratic orthodoxy on the border and came up with an ad that at first talked about securing the border before it got two things about path to citizenship and things that a lot of democrats and folks on the left want to hear about immigration. immigration is an issue and so is the economy and inflation. the economy is always going to be number one, particularly for latino voters. but again, there is just this

energy and excitement and the campaign, i was speaking to them today, they are ready to hit the ground running after labor day with a lot of things that they are going to do to reach some of those undecided latino voters that they still want to get. >> quickly before i have to let you go, interestingly, harris campaign has also released a whatsapp channel to target latino voters, understanding that sometimes you have to meet the voters where they are and whatsapp is an app that is used commonly by latinos to be able to communicate. >> you have to reach voters where they are and for latinos, their disproportionately younger. they are 21% of the youth vote in the country but those numbers in arizona and nevada are 36%, 39%, so to reach voters where they are, it's not your traditional phone banking and mail vote. that is part of the strategy. you have to use whatsapp. you have to use a lot of the digital platforms to reach the voter where they are and speak to them in their language. >> adrian kenna steele placer, thank you so much for joining me this evening. it's good to see you. and we'll be right back. or a...people person.

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you wouldn't characterize you wouldn't characterize florida as a swing state. i mean, after all, president trump carried florida in the last two presidential elections. the state apps republican governor, ron desantis, handily won reelection by nearly 20 points. poll trackers say the state is either solidly republican, or at the very least, it leaves that way heading into this year's election. in short, it's not really a

battleground. yet both campaigns are investing in florida, particularly in one part of the state. next week the harris campaign plans to launch a bus tour in palm beach county, centered around the issue of reproductive freedom. they are sending top surrogates to that part of the state. that outreach comes just days after the harris campaign ruled out a new attack ad tied to project 2025. this ad is aimed at crucial battleground states and also a single media markets in florida. that's palm beach. now if you're curious about what this is all about, the campaign will probably admit that this is psychological warfare aimed at former president donald trump. when the campaign announced that it was purchasing ad space in the palm beach media market, harris aides were blunt. in their press release they hyperlinked to the website for mar-a-lago, so much as to say that this is an ad by directed mainly at the guy who lives here. now as entertaining as all of this can be, with maybe more

interesting, though, is the fact that from apps campaign is also throwing up ads in the exact same area. and honestly, it makes no sense for them to purchase florida at time. after all, trump's own folks have boasted that florida is deep red trump country. so the question -- why waste the money on ads? turns out the former president is also their target audience, as well. a trump confidant tells the bulwark, quote, former president trump is a little on edge these days and it just makes sense for staff to have a little something on-air, so he's not wondering why he's not seeing his stuff on tv. it is what it is. it is what it is, indeed. that's our show for tonight. i'll be back here tomorrow, saturday at noon for the katie fang show where i'm going to welcome influencer and democratic