a factory for batteries for electric vehicles , again nearby, avtotor has taken several billion rubles from the fund for the production of electric vehicles . by the way, projects of electric vehicles in the fund are not only in the autotoria, the well-known project kama - the atom car which is being implemented by kamas, we have gained a good cruise speed, you guessed it, from the first days of working with i would call such a good, solid car, moving on four reliable wheels, a fairly stable tool. roman vasilievich, thank you very much for the conversation. thank you very much kiril, that you were invited.

hello, in russia there is a decade of science and technology, the ntv television company and the state corporation rosatom present a program: science and we are a program about how science will change our lives in the next 10 years, i, vladimir antokhin, i am ekaterina shugaeva and in 10 years science will find the end of the universe , well, the end in the sense of an edge, a boundary, well, at least we will understand where it ends, but here i want to say, happiness will come, finally, yes, at the end of the program our guest. and optimists will make a forecast with what probability in 10 years science will find the end of the universe, how the universe came into being, recalls our expert, professor kapustin. yes, the scientific history of the origin of the universe is the works of aristotle and ptolemy. their model is the earth around which the sun revolves. this model has not changed for over a thousand years. the founder of the geleocentric model was nicolaus copernicus. in the 17th century, it became clear that the sun

is not the center of the universe, that the sun is, well, the most ordinary star. at the beginning of the 20th century , einstein discovered that the distance between galaxies are unchanged, although gravitational forces attract material objects. in 1929 , hubble discovered that galaxies were moving away, even at a constant speed. but since they scatter, it means that you can find the point from which they are running, and even determine the time when they began their race. research has shown that almost 14 billion years ago, the universe was the size of a pea, and then there was a big bang. further events were sorted out by georgy gamow. 10 minus 43 seconds, temperature 10:32 degrees.

do you even like to look at the stars? yes, of course, beyond the horizon, to the stars, to the moon, and you? probably yes, i would say so, especially when as a child i dreamed of becoming a nightmare, and i remember as a child, in the village we lay down on a hay drain in the dark at night and watched. it seemed that it was spinning all

around, the stars in the village were very clearly visible in the darkness. vyacheslav ivanovich, when did people realize that the universe exists and what was it like in their minds? well, you know, there’s such an interesting picture here, because if we take the most ancient culture, here ancient india, the so-called indian speciesism, brahmanism, then there was an amazing huge cosmic picture of the world, there was... an idea of ​​a huge, well , very different worlds, and the human soul of an almost endless cosmos inhabited could travel through these worlds through reincarnation, and not only on our planet, but on other planets, other stars and even in other worlds in general, that is, it was such a polyworld picture of the world, what is called the multiverse today, but then such a strong slamming happened, so professor... pustin said that ancient

philosophy is already a geocentric system of the world, that is, even remember, here is such a picture, such a sphere, which is the boundary of the world, and a person sticks out. and what ’s next, then it’s like the world of god, the world of the highest being, here is the universe itself, the cosmos itself, it is so finite, and lies, limited to these, and this existed for quite a long time, then, starting from the renaissance, the return begins again cosmic consciousness, when jordan bruna is here again. idea of ​​infinity the universe, the infinity of worlds, and again this cosmocentric, as if the picture of the world is returning, and here i would like to note one more moment, it’s still very difficult to definitively determine whether the universe is infinite or finite, and it was so

wonderful philosopher emmanuel kant, a german philosopher, whose tercentenary, which is now being celebrated in kaliningrad, he... introduced the so-called antinomies of pure reason. and he believed that metaphysics, which talks about the world as a whole, about being as a whole, does not, cannot to be a real science, because it is based on these fundamental contradictions. and part of these contradictions is a statement about the finitude or infinity of the universe in space and time. and kant believed that if we accept any of these points of view, we can still find, as it were, a counter-

religious thought to the scientific one, that perhaps the universe has a beginning, as in many mythologies of the world, there is a chinese mythology, hindu mythology, which in many ways now echoes some

scientific hypotheses, which is somewhat entertaining, i would say. that the curiosity that man inherently shows is the reason why we study the universe, god willing, this curiosity will never be final, maybe there is no need to look for the end of the universe, well, i don’t know whether it is necessary or not, we we'll find out, but after the advertising, advertising on ntv. a unique country with a unique destiny, a unique culture , unique people, original and full

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what have you done foolishly, or something, you can get a heart attack, sergei zharkov, captain chatting with fish, dolphins are not fish, and his dolphin is returning, andrey, there is still time to wind down the operation. i can’t just sit around doing nothing, what is there and it looks like a murder to bring everyone to clean water, we have a mediterranean, what doesn’t happen here, but here killing with a crossbow arrow for the first time, just like that, andryukha, they are knocking down one by one, it seems to me that this is a clue, dolphin, new season, you will be contacted, no matter what, from monday at 20:00 on ntv. the program is on air: science and we are a program about how science will change our lives in the next 10 years;

in 10 years, science will find the end of the universe. at the end of the program, our guests, optimists and skeptics, will make a forecast: with what probability in 10 years will science really find the end of the universe? our expert, professor, will talk about observing the universe kapustin. looking into the universe, we see light everywhere, at all distances that our telescopes can look at, but at some point... the telescopes cannot see anything. another problem is the limit on how much of the universe is accessible to us since the big bang. the observable universe extends over nearly 50 billion light years in all directions. but, probably, there are areas that are unobservable by us, perhaps they are even

infinite. the whole set of what we know, see, observe, with...

copernicus's theory, for example, that the sun somehow juxtaposed is at the center of the world, the planets move around it, was based on the fact that it is the size, distance to the sun, distance to other planets, based on observation , so to speak, an observation device behind the sky and the facts of the movement of planets, made a hypothesis about the structure of the world and its boundaries, now we can look with the help of x-ray light, infrared light, waves that we can only observe from space, earth, these ranges of light are inaccessible to us, because that the atmosphere interferes, but with the help of satellites we can see distant objects in a huge number of options, the key point is how to determine the distance, because it is not so simple, for nearby stars we can determine the distance, because they

move a little in the sky, in fact this movement occurs due to the movement of the earth around the sun and...

the faster it moves away from us, we know this from experiment, respectively, this is about the fact that the universe is expanding, expanding, the further away the object, the faster it moves away from us, relative to us, moving away, the light that leaves comes from it, it slightly changes its frequency and i assume that there, for example, there are lines, as we say, of which atoms glow, they are the same throughout the universe, there is lyman alpha is... we can determine the distance to a very distant object and thus we come out by transferring this to the objects that we see, we get these estimates of 14 billion years, well, who even decided that the universe has boundaries, if we we only observe what is, well, only the visible part, but after all there is some kind of thing we want to have something

proportionate that we can hold in our hands, this is psychology. to know, if they expand, if they, if the universe expands, and the stars fly away from us, maybe they fly away endlessly, who came up with the idea that there is an end, they fly away, that’s how long we see them, they fly away, what needs to be done next, they will fly and stop, then we need to extrapolate, after this star or distant galaxy emitted light, it flew for 13 billion years or 10 billion years before us, we know exactly where this galaxy was for 10 billion years ago, but then this is our hypothesis that she continued to fly in the same direction... control, suddenly not, suddenly in that place the universe had already begun to shrink, and there are such theories, so here we are moving from experiment from observation to theoretical construction, good. theoretical construction sergei vladimirovichno, if indeed, yes, the hypothesis that the universe is expanding, and even with acceleration, as far as i understand, otherwise what is it like now, well, what

hypotheses exist and where does it begin then, where it ends, but it does expand, there is a lot of observational data about this, this is not only the measured speeds of galaxies by measuring their spectra, light travels at a finite speed, so when we look at distant galaxies, we see them in the past, and we see that the universe is evolving, that in the past it was different, not the same as it is now, for example, the galaxies were different, they were smaller, their number was slightly different, they merged more often, these are all changes that are associated with with the growth of our universe, with the increase in its size, let’s say, or rather, the distance between galaxies, and since light travels at a finite speed, then in the time... not of the universe, but it travels a finite distance, and that is, we cannot see objects, which are further than a certain horizon, that is, the distance that light has traveled during

the life of the universe, and yes, if it lived indefinitely, then our sky would be the same brightness as the sun, and she is the sky, the night sky dark, that's why we live in the universe, which has a finite age, but at least in the form as it exists now, that is, maybe it was completely different before, but... and it turns out that there is a certain horizon beyond which we see nothing, and moreover , according to modern data, the universe is not just expanding, but also expanding with acceleration, and that is, galaxies are now beginning to move away from each other faster and faster, well, yes, we need to make a small remark that the expansion of the universe is only the retreat of galaxies, that is, themselves galaxies and objects inside them, for example, there are stars, planets, they do not expand along with the universe. also become larger, that before they were smaller, they merged more often, yes, they become larger due to the fact that more matter falls on them, that is, before the matter was distributed more uniformly

throughout the universe, but gradually from this gas there, the primary galaxies formed in the soup, they condensed and this process continues, that is, matter falls on the galaxies, they grow, that is, the galaxies themselves they do not scatter, they do not increase within themselves, between themselves they expand in different directions, which means the boundary of the universe is all the time. are expanding, maybe this is an endless process, yes, and this is exactly what can happen if the universe is expanding with acceleration, as now follows from observational data, otherwise the visible boundary of the universe will not expand fast enough, this horizon, it is expanding, in general, at the speed of light, that is, time passes, and the more time has passed, the larger the horizon has become, but galaxies are moving with acceleration and therefore over time we will lose galaxies. they will disappear under this horizon, but it will turn out like this, they will go beyond the horizon, then i have a question, what will remain in the middle, emptiness,

our galaxy, and at the very last moment only our galaxy will remain, why suddenly , well, everyone else will fly away beyond horizon, one wonders why we don’t fly away anywhere, imagine that you will be in the center of the universe, everyone is looking at where the universes are flying, how the universe is expanding, where the galaxies are flying, has anyone tried to find out. the individual parts of this ball are moving away

from each other, we can say that the center of gravity of this ball is outside its material surface, so it is expanding with acceleration, no, we just cannot observe it physically, that is, the center of gravity.

yes, that’s why i would also like to say that in modern cosmology there is a lot of interpretive component, these facts can be interpreted differently. for example, there was academician vladimir logvinovich arvachev, who assumed that changes, well, this red shift, it is not associated with movement galaxies, it is associated with a change in the metric as one approaches the edge of the universe, that ’s where the closer the galaxies are to the edge of the universe, especially as it was...

only one of them, which is characterized by a certain set of fundamental constants, therefore already in in modern physics there are many world models that say that our universe is not the only one, in this regard, why shouldn’t there be an edge then of this universe, that’s how close we are to this edge, it seems to me that we are close to the edge today the existence of human civilization, this is what we need today, well, the ecological crisis, the possibility of the general self-destruction

of humanity today. yes, because of all these demographic, environmental, civilizational problems, this is our edge, and in order not to fall off this edge, we need harmony with nature, harmony with the universe, because we have become too divorced from nature and are too opposed ourselves in this man-made, cruel civilization that exists today, let's be optimistic, let's optimists and... hope for good development in the future, but after advertising, advertising on ntv. i have been waiting for you for eternity, i was in such a hurry to meet you, finally she came. spring, warm, sunny, bright, the russian exhibition blossomed with all the colors of spring. you were waiting for

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look at, better an apartment in the center, and a skyscraper, and maybe everything is everywhere at once, find it real estate submit just one application for a mortgage in... there is a science program on air and we are a program about how science will change our lives in the next 10 years. in 10 years, science will find the end of the universe. alas, we will not see the boundaries of the universe soon, says our expert, professor

kapustin. today, our observable universe extends approximately 50 billion light years in all directions. at this distance is the starting point of the imaginary part. which set off at the moment of the big bang, and travels at the speed of light arrived to us after 14 billion years. in principle, at this distance all the gravitational waves left over from cosmic inflation, the state preceding the big bang, were born. calculations show that the very first stars could have formed 50-100 million years from the beginning of the universe, and the first... galaxies, well , after about 200 million years, but, unfortunately, we have not looked that far yet, and today the cosmic record is held by a galaxy that existed when the universe was only

400 million years old, well, that's only 3% of what it is now age, and the galaxy, by the way, is located very close to us, only 32 billion light years away. “gravitational waves remaining after cosmic inflation, in my opinion everything is clear, yes, the words individually are understandable, what we’re talking about is not very clear, now we’ll find out, you already said today that we have telescopes there, spectral analyses, but what technologies do we need not enough to still see or find, well, at least something similar to the end of the universe, and most importantly, now you will laugh at everything that i show you, but i really don’t i understand that we are exactly looking for, this is what this one should look like..."

there is somewhere to point to some point, then there is nothing else, but yes, and it’s not so simple, if we are in a domestic situation, how we evaluate an object, let ’s assume we have, well, let’s assume this... a refrigerator and we want to find out if it will fit through the door, what does the person take, yes, he takes a ruler, well, a centimeter or a tape measure and applies it to one end, to the other end, which means we must understand exactly where the edge is, and there must be a ruler with which we can to instantly measure the distance, unfortunately, we have a certain object that looks like this, conditionally, we are not on the side of it, but inside. and we cannot reach any point, declare it

an edge, therefore, it means that the very problem of measurement is, the very problem of observing the end is that we do not have a tool to measure, relatively speaking, the position of this end, most importantly, when you bring a refrigerator, i understand the difference between the refrigerator feeling like air and i know where to put a ruler, we they must see the border, but here there is nothing to apply to, nothing to apply to. it will be warm here, it will be cold here, suddenly it will become sharp, that is, what will happen? therefore, we are really limited, relatively speaking, by distance , this is the age of the universe, in order to determine some properties of objects located in it, but when we talk about the multiplicity of universes, we must understand that this is far beyond the border of this event horizon, this is where -relatively speaking, we have a refrigerator here, and other universes are in a neighboring city, so we...

before this, almost 10 years ago we were not yet able to measure them, now we see distant objects in the vibrations of space, there is a merger of neutron stars, black holes very, very far from us, and we are trying to find the nature of dark matter, dark energy, and these mysterious the words that are said, for this purpose, dozens of the best telescopes on earth are working there in space, in order to determine some properties of this substance and recalculate them, relatively speaking, into the parameters of the universe, and here yes, just why...

hab telescope april 24, 1990 , conditionally it successor, the james web space telescope was launched literally at the end of 2021 and at the moment, what we got with the help of james web and what we got with the help of hubble is already a large body of knowledge that we are currently using to to try to answer this question. it is quite likely that in the process of further

study, as a fundamental apparatus, well, those patterns that we use in theory and instruments, including the technology that is now being practically improved, both - at the level of program code, that is , computing packages, and measurement accuracy, will lead to the fact that we may find an answer to another question, in addition to the one we are looking for, but which ones are still unclear, well, okay, then here is sergei vladimirovich , indeed, we will find, let’s say, the end of the universe, the guy will fly somewhere, see something, so what to me, for example, anatolyich said that when you measure a refrigerator, i just want to put it in the door, but we will find the end of the universe, here for me here, as an ordinary inhabitant of the planet, this will make my life easier, more fun? well, what about more fun is still

unclear, but life will definitely become generally clearer and maybe easier, but because there are, in general, two options: either we act in our lives to the fullest, and that is , well, i don’t know, maybe we use it there - we live like this , how our grandfathers lived there, or we are either trying to understand our universe, understand how it works and try to predict the consequences of our actions, that is, understand what we... do, and for this we need to know everything about our universe, you can’t know some part there and ignore the other, well, how can we say that we know how our world works and how we should live in it... if we don’t know where it came from and where it ends . well, this is such a philosophical question, but there are simpler practical solutions, and well, firstly, each area of ​​science does not develop separately from the others, they are all interconnected, and cosmology,

this is the science about the universe, about its end, in particular, the most is closely related to the physics of elementary particles, that is, with the device matter at a deep level. which maybe someday will allow us to develop new sources of energy, master the technology of interstellar or even intergalactic flights in the end, and that is, to answer these questions we definitely need to study cosmology, because observing the early stages of the big bang there, these 10 minus 43 seconds, and we can observe matter in states that ground laboratories, in principle, can never obtain, that is, space is a big, big... laboratory for physicists, and of course there is, a lot of side effects, for example, the development of some ordinary household technologies, that is, the matrices that are in cameras, in mobile phones, now they were basically invented by astronomers in order to take pictures

of galaxies and stars, and then they gradually introduced themselves into our lives, also someone takes selfies, someone photographs the stars, like that , seriously?

it works here now in, for example, satellite navigation, so not in 10, but in 20, 30, 40, we are definitely from this we’ll get some kind of prog, as franklin’s famous quote said there, when the president of the united states came to him and asked what was the use of your experiments in electricity, he replied: in 50 years you will tax them, so life will become better or more fun, if we are here ? you know, we are universes ourselves, so i ’ve been developing ideas lately, so-called world-like biology, when every living creature can be imagined as a small world with its own space, time, matter, laws, in this sense it’s possible

experimental study of universes, not only the huge, large universe, yes, but also those small microcosms, worlds, each of which is a living being, this or that living being, so it is quite possible that you understand, the paradigm can change so radically, what is universe, yes, maybe even in 10 years, that the study of the universe as a whole may suddenly turn out to be an experimental study related not only to astrophysics and cosmology, but to the study of some world-like systems, that is, such systems that... on small scales act as entire small worlds, exploring them, exploring their world-like physics, perhaps we will then be able to experimentally study large universes, so what do you think, is the universe finite or infinite, or are you a follower of kant, it is believed that neither or anything else? i think that the last is the largest

meta of the universe, it is infinite, but it is saturated with a huge number of nested universes with the fractal structure. friend, and we are somewhere at the very, very bottom of this huge hierarchy and even in this on a microscopic scale, we cannot even cover the dimensions of this universe, and what can we say about what is there, only the mind, only the transformed mind will be able to penetrate these scales, not a single technique, not a single technology will be able to cover such a scale anyway , which can cover, then you believe in the infinity of the mind, right? this is what we need to rely on more, not on the infinity of telescopes and radars, yes, they will always be finite anyway, here is human thought, it is infinite, okay, then i have a question for our guests, optimists and skeptics: if science nevertheless finds the end of the universe, then it turns out that it will be able to find its exact beginning, if we extrapolate, i

think until now, it can even be traced to a certain point, that is, we have conditionally exact values ​​of the planck time, this is the result of theoretical physics, namely extrapolation, the only thing that will change

will advance us a couple more, a couple of steps towards absolute knowledge, well, somehow you want to say, somehow walk faster, or something, you somehow, well, in fact, astronomy began as a purely practical science, these are coordinates, this is sailing, but astronomy actually moved so fast that it ran away to 13 billion light years to the big bang, so in this sense it is difficult to approach astronomy to make claims that she walks narrowly, she strides broadly. by the way, i wanted to remind you that in addition to the big bang, there is also the concept of a big bang, that is, there is a model of a periodic oscillating universe that

is born from a singularity, then slams into a singularity, here you have the beginning and the end, and the boundaries of this universe, these are also models, as far as i understand, solutions to einstein’s equation and the general theory of relativity are also possible, so modern physics does not exclude models where there are boundaries of the universe in both time and space. astronomers are searching, moving for 13 billion years, into the boundaries of the universe, i think physicists, in the end everyone will still understand that in the beginning there was a word or just an idea, it all started with a word or an idea, and then after that there was advertising, advertising on ntv. academy of russian television, announces the acceptance of applications for participation in the twenty-third all-russian. in the television competition tefiregion. details on the website tefi.ru.

the program is on air. science and we is a program about how science will change our lives in the next 10 years. perhaps in 10 years science will find the end of the universe. but it is not exactly. so, to find out whether this will happen or not, we will now ask our guests, optimists and skeptics. what is the probability, in their opinion, that science will still find the end of the universe in 10 years? well, lev sergeevich, let's start with you. eat do you have a forecast? and why? i would say about 50%, to be precise, 503 out of 72. why such an accurate figure, i think, if you and i really evaluate the amount of work that the first space telescope did in comparison with the current one, for how long they did it, these are exactly the same 37. which

we did not have for the previous 30 years, that is , we are already receiving more reliable information, rather new information that hubble could not give us when we get something or get it, we get it where now? that the earth is the sun on one side, and since james web works, he measures it in the infrared range, in order to measure well

in the infrared range, it is necessary to cool down, yes. temperatures close to absolute zero in order to avoid noise, and this is precisely the essence of this innovation and the james web web that they were able to make equipment that cools to almost absolute zero and gives us new data because of this, we see very faint objects in the universe, colder, darker, as they say, which are in the visible we don’t see in the range of light, we can see planets around other stars, there are some very distant galaxies, the first galaxies. 1%, thank you very much, in 10 years it seems to me that the probability is very low, well, let it be 1/%,

i will be an even greater skeptic. chances, because if you look at the theories of the origin of the universe and its end that exist, their predictions that, well, maybe in 100 years there are some that should be observed now in our universe, differ from each other so slightly, by such small amounts that so far our technology will not be able to... distinguish most of these theories, but maybe in 10 years, if again we are very lucky, some of these theories will turn out to be, some of theories that are easily verified will turn out to be true, then a miracle can happen, yes, but there are few such theories, so you yourself are an adherent of some theory, that the universe has boundaries, or is it this

multi-level bubble, and well... i i believe that the universe in the form we observe it, that is, with ordinary space, time and matter, there must be a boundary, and beyond it it may be infinite, but only this is already infinity in some other sense and there we cannot talk about our time, not about our space, most likely so, and there is not carbon life there , let's 1%, ah-ah-ah, no, wait 0, okay, good, 0.1%, thank you very much, from the point of view of theory , there are already concepts that allow the boundary of the universe and in time in space, in this regard , as if theoretically it has already been achieved, yes, that’s what concerns practice, you know, here i am i propose this crazy hypothesis: if there is a boundary to the universe, behind it lies another universe, then there may be places on these boundaries where their qualities coincide; they

can be conditionally called zero. zero space, yes, as it were, where there is a contact between two universes, in this case it is quite possible that even with modern technology, if, for example, this zone fluctuates in time, it disappears and appears, then suddenly, maybe within the next 10 years , even with the technology that we have today, we will suddenly find a hole in modern, so to speak, universe, another universe will shine through it, shine through. and this, in principle, could be observed, and even without a super-revolution in the field of new super-theories and even modern technologies, look closely, yes, so i ’m raising to 90% 90% excellent forecast, thank you very much volodya, with a probability of 36,205 thousandths , that’s 25 thousandths, that’s the most important thing

i think this is a small matter. doesn’t happen, so, with a probability of 36.205, science will find the end of the universe, and even if it doesn’t find it, then how many interesting things we will see while we are looking, that’s what’s really important, and in general, let our universe be infinite, well, because if it continues to expand and expand, as it is expanding now, it will become empty inside, it will be so sad, then you will stay in the center, that’s me, by the way, surprisingly today they said that we will remain in the center in any case. it’s simply amazing, the most important thing is that the boundaries of knowledge are endless, well, in fact , right now i’ll demonstrate to everyone how it’s easy, right now, science will find the end of the universe, now we’ll make a model of the universe, as it is known there, the earth stood on turtles on a turtle, well, just in case, i took three turtles, here i have elephants somewhere

, wait, there will be elephants. and the elephants were beautiful, the main thing is that it’s not so beautiful, it’s just that even when there were turtles, all this fell apart, but in general, look more carefully, okay, so that nothing falls apart, but science is beautiful, and the boundaries of our knowledge are endless, that too important, and therefore the decade of science and the technology was not announced in vain, and apparently will continue to exist indefinitely. our science will never run out of topics, that’s what’s cool, it was a program, science and we are a program about how science will change our lives, including yours, in the next 10 years, see you in a week, bye.

but i remember, when i was really little, for one new year, my parents decided to give me a black metal shiny pestle just like a real one, so they hid it before

the holiday the day before under the tree, and i spent the whole night, all night, like pissing, running around with this pestle play, they woke up in the morning, they look at me with interest and wait to see what the reaction will be, but i’m not interested in anything at all, because this pestle is gone by the morning. the shutter broke off, these are the things, yes, we meet, we meet, the bus has been sent, dinner is due to arrive, we will accommodate, feed, two suites for the stars, the best, timor skandrovich, i understand everything, girls.

in the morning, no, today is a legal day off, lie down, well, there’s no one else, i didn’t see duch in the last holidays, well, there’s business for half an hour, we have attendance, you know what, but new year is just around the corner, the boarding house is empty, everyone is running, but is it my fault, how am i going to pay you a salary, and there is a kokoshnik, what a kokoshnik, and how am i going to greet them, bread, salt, kokoshnik? you have two days off, okay.