of hello, i'm chris williamson and you're watching palestine declassified. we're the only weak tv show focusing on investigating and exposing the israel regime war against solidarity we illegally occupied people of palestine. in this week's show we'll be looking at the relentlesss and a flinching determination of the palestinian people to throw up. tackles of depression, the sadistic

brutality of zianist militants and savage behavior of illegal settlers have completely failed to blunt will of the palestinian people to resist.akra has been looking back at the first interfada when the palestinian people rose up against israel's military occupation of the west bank and the gaza strip. the first interfather or uprising began in december 1987 (36 years ago), it ended in september 1993 with the... signing of the first oslo accords, which provided a framework for so-called peace negotiations with the palestinians. the failure of that process is visible for all to see today. in the first interfather, israeli brutality abundantly demonstrated. palestinians were casualties at the ratio of more than 3 to1, new departure were the orders from top to break the bones of protesters. the tactic was exposed in famous footage broadcast on mainstream news networks the world over. israeli colonel yahuda was tried for his part in. crimes, he blamed then dense minister

yitzak rabin, who gave orders in january 1988 to break bones of protesters as punishment. rabin claimed it was only to bring them under control. either way, rabin's orders had gone out via the israeli press, but he was quited saying, we will break their bones. may admitted ordering meetings, but then said, "i feel they abandoned me and threw me to the dogs." he reportedly began to cry minutes later and asked for a recess, though eventually found guilty of... brutality, the highest ranking iof soldier convicted on that charge, he avoid prison and was only strip of his rank and discharged privat. second departure was the use of undercovered squad gazza and the west bank, code named shimsham and dov ban, officially known as unit 367 and unit 217. operating in address in the period until 1992, they executed more than 100 palestinians. unit 367 was later disbanded, but unit 217 remains active in the west bank.

the start into father is date to 9th of december 1987. 7th this year. conflict did not begin then. the proximate causes were intensified ethnic cleansing, land expropriation and settlement construction. increasing zionist repression, the emergence of new layer of palestinian activists who challenged the lead of the plo. we should not forget the striking reconfiguring of october the 7th operation. in the night of the glider in which two palestinian gorillas used hand gliders to... infiltrate the northern border and kill six occupation force operatives on 25th of november 1987. gorillas were mortalized in many palestinian posters and images produced in commemoration. the hand gliding attack is held from the popular front for the liberation of palestine, which is one of the key gorilla groups engaged in the arks of flood and ghaza. key difference between then and now is today's unity of the fields in which all the major factions break closely in actions against the occupation. as all

we're joined by resident expert david miller, he's an academic and a former professor at brittle university and he's now a non-resident senior research fellow at the center of islam and global affairs at istanbul zm university. he's also a co-director of the lobby and watch dog spinwatch and is a leading british scolar critic of israel. i guess today the palestinian doctor, activist, academic and writer dr. gardha karmi. garda was born in jerusalem and forced from her home during the nakbar. she later trained as a medical doctor and established the first british palestinian medical charity in 1972. too, she was also associate fellow at the royal institute for international affairs and her books include the bestselling memoire in search of fatima. welcome to the show. let me start with you. i mean, you were forced out of palestine in 1948, went you, and then was the occupation of god and bank from far in 1967. i wonder of whether you could just recall how you felt at the time of the first interfada? well, i had, of course, i had already become an activist follow. the 1967 war, because it was the

first time i remember that began to understand what israel was about, and it was very clear to me from that day on that they were about was occupying the rest of palest. and that's what they wanted and the first father was so full, it was wonderful moment for all of us who had felt a kind of sense of despair as you living through the 70s in britain israel's becoming more and more accepted and it was becoming more and more quote normalized and you know so we we sortted for it hopeless that and then comes the first into father and you think... but of course we didn't was first then it comes in father which and which reasserts the fact that there there's a palestinian people and they are not willing to accept what is has been scripted for them by israel and its

western backers and by the way in any discussion we have we have always to remember that israel would not be israel if it were not for western support yeah absolutely would i mean you've been involved in the pro-palestinian activism for for quite some time now, i think you first got involved didn't you in the question of palestine during that first interfather in 1987 and i think i was after seeing those brutal beatings wasn't it of those palestinian protesters? yes, i mean one of the first thing i ever did in, i suppose pro palestine i didn't really think of it as that then was when we saw the the breaking of the bones, the famous footage of that, and then the bbc reported one of the soldiers had been arrested for. breaking of the bones, being shown home, released from custody to his kuboots and he was welcomed as gentle giant who was returning to the boosm of his family, yeah, and we were just outraged at this, i was working the glasgow university media group, i was young, not even phd student by that stage, and we went into something in

glasgow called video box, which is there was several around the country uh, where chforce right the reply program, one of the key benefits of the creation of channel 4 in terms of democratizing the media, where you could go in and you could... 30 second clip to complain about something so we went in, i think three or four of us crammed into this box and we just think it's raged that the bbc should refer to these horrific tortures as beal giants and bbc should we have proper coverage of this and so that was one of my first education the way in which propaganda operates and relation to essentially yeah absolutely and of course it's moved a pace since then of course but god mean how was the zinanish regimes oppressive techniques changed since the 1980s where they officially sanctioned the kind of bone breaking punish. beatings and these undercover assassinations, well well they have got worse, they don't bother to break people's bow, they shoot them dead, so you has become it is amazing that the idea spectacle of soldiers are shooting

palestinians, killing them, yes outright has become so part of the normal landscape, yeah, and that's what's so very frightening about all this is that zist violence which was there right from the st and you mentioned that um i was victim of the the nba in 1948, the point about kb as and the same point today is violence, is the violence that accomplish zinism, and so that violence meant that moving on from breaking bones just simply shoot the people dead, no indeed, indeed, it's much more visible now, i think that isn't it than it has ever been in the past with the advent of social media, so more more people are aware of the the... the reality of zionism is, but i mean the first concluded didn't it with the records and of course you many people at time i think thought this was the beginning of viable peace process didn't they, but as it turned out was just wishful thinking wasn't it? yes, if you recall in that period we had the irish peace process, we had a south african peace

process, we had we had mandela released from prison uh, it looked like this was part of a general tendency in world to move towards uh resolving political, of course that was a mistake. we we so that nothing of the sort was happening and the f of course what happened was that the po had recognized the zionist entity and had also uh renounced uh effect the armed resistance against this entity and uh that of course led to the marginalizing of the of the people we gave them the palestinian authority of course the comparador authority as it is and which collaborates directly with the zionists to repress the palestinian resistance movement but it meant that the but power and in resistance shifted away from the plo and especially from fata 'ing fashion in the plo and towards more openly islamically oriented movements especially of course hamas and islamic jihad but you know also let us remember the the uh the secularist leftist factions like the df which are which are of course all all these factions are now center

the resistance in gaza yeah but mean in your opinion what was the problem with with the oslow process well well there was nothing right with it actually it it was full of problems be'. the first, the first issue is that the palestinian side offered a recognition of israel within the borders of the the borders which meant that it kept 78% the original land of palestine recognized their right to that while actually getting very little done, because what they actually got was a recision on the israel of the palestine liberation organization as the movement that represents the palestians. okay, good, but that's not enough, there was nothing, we need to remember, there was nothing in the oslow agreement which..." made it mandatory that the israel would move

towards assisting in the creation of a palestinan state that was never overly stated, it was something that the palestinians sort of assumed and lots of other people assumed, but they had no right to assume it because it wasn't in the accords. secondly, what it really did was to sort of give a structure to the idea of. autonomy of palestine autonomy in spheres, which was around for for ages, the egypt, israel treaty 1979 already was something which the israel side was willing to agree to, and so-called autonomy, well that's what oslo did, it allowed for autonomy, but for things like health education, civil society type things, but not for defense, and not for freedom of movement, so it all it really did was give, if i think the best way to put it,

it's presented a sort of feel good, yes thing to other people, well well we just leave it there if we can for moment, because i want to come back to the discussion in a while after you've had a chance to look at our next video about the genesis of hamas, the term hamas is... acronym harakat al islamiah, which translates into english simply as islamic resistance movement. resistance is, in other words, literally part of its name. hamas was effectively born as a direct result of the spark that lit the fame of the first insafada, the people who created it at the day after the occupation forces killed four palestinian workers by crashing into their car at the gaza check, leaflet issued on december the 14th, calling for. resistance is considered their first public intervention, though the name hamas itself was not used

until early 1988. like its key ally in the palestinian resistance, the islamic jihad movement in palestine, usually call palestinian islamic jihad or pij in the west, hamas was formed from the muslim brotherhood. though the brotherhood was politically quietest at time, but became more radical, seeking to challenge the dominance of fata, the secular. nationalist group then hegemonic amongst palestinians. this task became all the more central one fatah accepted the existence of the state of israel and renounced arm struggle. looking back, it is clear that the first interfada was a fork in the road between those who believed compromise could lead to progress and those who maintained only resistance could win. hamas was formed one month after peal led declaration advocating coexistence with the zinanis entity early 1988. the oslo and then the gaza withdrawal in 2005, ham entered and won the elections in gaza and became the de

facto government. the armed wing of hamas, the is al din al khasim brigade has been branded as a terrorist organization for more than 20 years. in late 2021, uk moved to ban hamas in total, including its political wing. since the launch of alxa flood on october 7, there has been a propaganda war over the role of hamas in the resistance, in the idea. mass was created or supported by the zianists. this misunderstands the history by confusing the support given by the zionist to the politically quite muslim brotherhood in order to on the more radical plo with the more militant politics associated with hamas. later when ariel sharon attempted to liquidate the plo, hamas did benefit, but its victory in the 2006 election m the realization of the ziist that it had become their main enemy. so... there were marked periods when the various factions of the resistance were at odds with each other, but

those recent years all resistance factions have made peace and work as one. david you just say a word or to will you about the muslim brotherhood in palestine? so the muslim brotherhood of course a transnational moment like with independent parts in different countries one in the uk and of course it's been very much targeted uh in this country for example with investigation uh under government, which is prompted by interesting for that investigation to tr to suggest that brotherhood were terroris. of course muslim brotherhood is not a terrorist organization and in this country politically. active, it has be politically active in the anti-war movement, very important in this country, but in palestine, there were two separate factions of the muslim brother, the egyptian muslim brotherhood and the jordanian muslim brotherhood in the west bank and gaza, yeah, and they were at the time quite politically quiet, so that what you found was the plo, kind of radical nationalist organization, by far the most radical threat to the zianist entity because they were

national, whereas the muslim brotherhood were not, it was split from the muslim brotherhood which led both to palestine is jihad. of course the more radical uh smaller of the movements today and of course how much they became the radical cutting edge of resistance that's when the the idea of using them to undermine the plo became something didn't want to do and of course that's that's the story right hamas was not created by by israel the idea that how it's a cat's power for western interest is a fantasy and people in the palestine abandons and understand the resistance is is serious resistance against not just des entity, but again west interest in imperialism in the whole region, yeah, what if you might just say something about the evolution of your thinking on this? well, it was always very clear to me from the very, from the suppose from the very beginning of my activism or awareness, that we'd have to fight to get our country back, it was always

very clear to me that whatever name you wanted to give it, the the the end result. had to be the reclamation of palestine and all of it for the palestinians and that those palestinians like myself, the millions living in un registered refugee camps, all those people had the right to go back and reclaim their homeland, it's always very clear me that that was the aim, so the next question was, how do we get there, and i was really wing to support anything that... that would look as if it might get us there, that includes, never had a sort a fe, i think many palestinas are like me didn't sort of think, we can only support this if it's religiously motivated or if it's this kind of thing or that kind of, not really, i think it's much simpler than that for palestinans, they just

want to get the country back and they'll back whatever it is that looks likely to get us. now having of course said that, i can't disguise the fact that i was never keen on religious type resistance movement because always felt that they missed the point. the point about palestine is not religion, it's seft of land, it's very simple, so really you have to go to the thief and sort the thief out and get the land back, so you don't need religion as a as motivating factor, however, i have to say over time and observing the way that not only hamas but in lebanon has fought their resistance wars so not only bravely but so cleverly yeah is very impressive and if an indian i ended up by saying not only me many others like me but well if it takes religion

to get you to function like this then so be it. indeed david, i think one of the important takes from the video that we've just watched is that it contradicts doesn't it those who claim that hamas was created by designs? i mean, i think this is a mistake that um, you saw in the film the clip from the internet making that kind of, but there have been many other kinds of arguments that and and you you see i've seen lots of people eating cutting from herets with netan yahoo talking about supporting hs. it's mistaken, it's a misunderstanding, and of course what we really see is the the attempt on parts of the left, i think to to misunderstand resistance in palestine and and to think because of because of the horror that we currently are seeing, because of the dead children, the bombing of the buildings, the raising of gaza, people think that means that the palestines can do nothing, and their only choice is to is to stay in their homes and

die or to leave into the s, which of course is designed, but actually what what we see if if we pay closing is that there has been really very significant resistance in gaza and indeed of course in west bank and of course also on the north border from very serious resistance which has had really significant effects on the the occupation forces and we're not seeing much of the reporting of that western media paying attention to social media to telegram you see lot of that kind of stuff and that that is to think that that isn't happening and that isn't a significant actor in this whole period which of course it is very very significant we would never had the changes for the the palestige. is really jails, if it wasn't for that, of course, of course, i mean, um, god, i mean, what would you say to those to insist that he must condemn hamas? i mean per morgan is a classic case point every guess he has on when talking about this issue. do we first ask them, will you condemn hamas? what should the response be to characters like? it's good that you bring this up because it's infuriating, you you are

ask a very important question, and before you are about to answer, you have first to make this declaration, i condemn ham, well no, the the the the really the answer to that is, it's not a question of condemnation, it's a question of trying to understand why people behave like this, what makes them do that? what really it has to uh face this issue is what condemn, you know, and the other way to deal with it, which is not original to me, but it's perfectly correct is to ask the the person asking one this question, when did you last condemn an israeli spokesperson or representative for the actions of the israeli army? there's a good response i saw on social media where somebody was asked about in demonstration what about october said well what about the eight what about october what about october 11th they tried to walk away finished answering the question yet going on and then he say and what about you every day

back to 1948 so yeah mean i think you're absolutely uh right we do need to to push back back against that but look i'm afraid to say we are out of time so that's it for another show i'd like to thank our guest dr god and of course our resident expert professor david miller palestind classified we'll be back next week with more forensic investigations and analysis and in the meantime you can follow the show on facebook, twitter and telegram where we post regular clips and updates and remember to share today's program on your social media platforms, so until next time, this is chris williamson saying bye for now.

we live in a densely populated area and suffer from severe shortage of portal water, the element that was leaving the... israeli water company in charge of all the water resources is the israeli national water company responsible for stealing water in palestine.

legitimate targets unless the need of food and medicine are allowed into the gaza strip,

more than 17,700 palestinians, most of them women and children are killed in israel's us act genocide in gaza. and huge crowsers gather in different countries to show solidarity with palestinians and