hello, i'm chris williamson and you're watching palestini classified, we're the only weekly tv show focusing on investigating exposing the israeli regimes global war against solarity with the illegally occupied people of palestine, in this week's show we'll be looking at the relentless and

unflinching determination of the palestine people to throw off the shadles of zionis depression. the sadistic brutality of zinist military goons and the savage behavior of illegal settlers have completely failed to blunt the will of the palestinian people to resist. the tefacha has been looking back in the first instader the palestinian people rose up against israel's military occupation of the west bank and the gaza strip. the first interfather or uprising began in december 1987. 36 years ago, it ended in september 1993 with the signing of the first oslo accords, which provided a framework for so-called peace negotiations with the palestinians. the failure of that process is visible for all to see today. in the first interfather brutality was abundantly rated. palestinians were casualties at the ratio of more than 3-1. on new departure were the orders from to break the bone testers. the tactic was exposed in famous footage broadcast on mainstream news networks the world. over israeli colnel yahuda was tried

for his part in these crimes, he blamed then defense minister, rabin who gave orders in january 1988 to break bones of protest as punishment. rabbin claimed it was only to bring them under control. either way, rabin's orders had gone out via the israeli press, where he was quoted saying, "we will break their bones." may admitted ordering beatings, of but then said, "i feel like they abandoned me and threw me to the dogs." he reportedly began to..." crime minutes later and asked for a recess, though eventually found guilty of brutality, the highest ranking iof soldier canvicted on that charge, he avoided prison and was only stripped of his rank and discharged as a private. a second departure was the use of undercover desquads and the west bank, codenamed shim shum and dove devan, officially known as unit 367 and unit 217. operating in arab dress in the period until 1992, they executed more than 100. the

palestinians, unit 367 was later descended, of but unit 217 remains active in the west bank. the start of the interfather is dated to 9th of december 1987, just like october 7th this of year, the conflict did not begin then. the proximate causes were intensified ethnic cleansing, land expropriation and settlement construction. increasing zionist repression, the emergence of new layer of palestinian activists to challenged leadership of the plo. we should not... forget the striking reconfiguring october the 7th after flood operation in the night of the glid in which two palestinian gorillas used hand gliders to infiltrate the northern buddha and kill six occupation force operatives on 25th of november 1987. the gorillas were immortalized in many palestine posters and images produced in commemoration. the hand-gliding attack is held from the popular front for the liberation of palestine, which is one of the key gorilla groups engaged in the alaxa flood in gaza. a key difference between then and now... is today's unity of the field in which

all the major factions collaborate closely in armed actions against the occupation. as always we're joined by our resident expert david miller. david is academic and former professor at bristol university and he's now non-resident senior research fellow at the center of islam affairs at istanbul's am university. he's also a co-director of the lobby watch dog spinwatch and is the leading british scholar critic of israel. our guest today is the palestinian, activist, academic and writer, dr. garda kami. guada was born in jerusalem and forth from her home during the nba. she later trained as a medical doctor and established the first british palestinian medical charity in 1972. she was also associate fellow at the royal institute of international affairs and her books include the bestselling memoir in search of fatima. welcome to the show. let me start with i mean you you were forced out of palestine in 1948 were you and then witness the occupation of gaza and west bank from a far in 1967. i wonder whether you could just recall how you

at the time of the first interfada? well, i had, of course, i had already uh become an activist following the 1967 war, because... "it was the first time i remember that i began to understand what israel was about, and it was very clear to me from that day on that what we're about occuping the rest of palestine and that they want and the first in the father was so hopeful, it was wonderful moment for all of us who had felt a kind of sense of despair as you know living through the 70's in britain uh israel's become more and more accepted and it was becoming more and more..." quote normalized and you know so we we started feel a bit hopeless that you and then comes the first into father and you think of course we didn't was first that comes in in father and which and which reasserts the fact that there there's a

palestinian people and they are not willing to accept what is has been scripted for them by israel and its western backers and by the way in any... we have, we have always remember that israel would not be israel if it were not for to support. no, absolutely. well, i mean, you've been involved in the propostinian activism for quite some time now. i think you first got involved, didn't you in the christian of palestine during that first inferder in 1987, and i think i was after seeing those brutal beatings, wasn't it of those palestinian protesters? yes, i mean, one of the first things i ever did in, i suppose. palestine actor, didn't really think of it as that then was when we saw the the break of the bones, famous footage of that, and then the bbc reported one of soldiers who had been arrested for the breaking of the bones, being shown home was from custody to his kiboots and he was welcomed as gentle giant who was returning to the family, we

were just outraged at this, working at the glass university media group, i was young, not even a phd student by that stage, and we went into something in glasgow called the video box, there was several of them about the country uh where channel 4's right to reply program one of the key benefits of the creation of channel 4 in terms of democratizing the media where you could go in and you could make a 30 second clip complain about something so we went in i think three or four of us cramned into this box and we did say it's an outrage that the bbc should refer to these horrific torturers as being gentle giants and the bbc should have proper coverage of this and so that was one of my first bits of education about the way in which proganda operates in relation to uh design is essentially yeah absolutely and of course it's moved a pay since then of course. god, mean, how was the zionist regime's oppressive techniques changed since the 1980s when they sanction the kind of bone breaking punishment beatings and these uh undercover assassinations? well, well they've got worse uh, they don't to break people's boats, they shoot them dead, so that is become it is

amazing that the idea uh and spectacle of soldiers just shooting palestinians, killing them, yes, outright has become so... um part the normal landscape, yeah, and what's so very frightening about all this is that zen violence, which was there right from the start, and you mentioned that, i was victim the the nakba in 1948, the point about that nba as as and the same point today, is the violence, is the violence that accompanis, and so that violence meant that moving on and breaking bones just simply shoot the people dead, no, indeed, indeed. it's much more visible i think isn't than ever been in the past with the event of social media more people are are aware of the what the you know zinanism the reality of zinanism is but david i mean the first interfada conclude didn't it with the with the oslow records and of course you many people at the time i think thought this was the beginning of vival peace process

didn't they but as it turned out that was wishful thinking wasn't it yes you recall in that period uh we had the irish peace process we had the south african peace process we had we had mandela. from prison, it looked like this was part of a general tendency in the world to move towards resolving political conflicts, of course that was a mistake, we see now that nothing of the sort was happening, and in fact of course what happened was the plo had recognized entity and had also renounced effectively on resistance against design is entity and that of course led to the marginizing authority of course, the compared authority as it is and collaborates directly with.

with the oslo process? well, well, there was nothing right with it, actually, it it was full of problems, the first, the first issue is that the um... palestinian side offered a recognition of israel within the borders of the borders, which meant that it kept 78% of the original land of palestine, recognized their right to that, while actually getting very little in return, because what they actually got was a recognition on the part of israel of the palestine liberation organization as the movement that represents the palestinians. "okay, good, that's not good enough. there was nothing, people really need to remember, there was nothing in the

oslow agreement, which made it mandatory that the israel would move towards assisting in the creation of a palestinian state, that was never overty stated, it was something that the palestinians sort of assumed, and lots of other people assumed, but they had no right to assume it, because it wasn't in the accords and second." what it really did was to sort of give a structure to the idea of autonomy, of palestinian autonomy in certain spheres, which was around for for ages, the egypt israel treaty 1979 already was something which the israeli side was willing to agree to and so called autonomy, well that's what oslo did, it allowed autonomy, but for things... health, education, civil society type things, but not for defense, and

not for freedom of movement, so it it all it really did was give, if i think best way to put it, it it presented a sort of feel good, yeah thing to other people, well we just leave it there if we can for moment, because come back to the discussion in a while after you've changed to look at our video, the... genesis of hamas: the term hamas and islamiya, which translates into english simply as islamic resistance movement. resistance is, in other words, literally part of its name. hamas was effectively born as a direct result of the spark that lit the flame the first interfada. the people who created it met the day after the occupation forces killed four palestinian workers by crashing. into their car at the gaza checkpoint, leaflet issued on december the 14th, calling

for resistance is considered their first public intervention, though the name hamas itself was not used until early 1988. like its key ally in a palestinian resistance, the islamic jihad movement in palestine, usually called palestinian islamic jihad or pij in the west, hamas was formed from the muslim brotherhood, the brotherhood was politically quietest at the time, both hamas and islamic jihad became more radical, seeking to challenge the dominance of, the secular nationalist group, then hegemonic amongst the palestinians. this task became all the more central, once fata accepted existence of the state of israel and renounced arm struggle. looking back, it is clear that the first interfada was a fork in the road between those who believed compromise could lead to progress and those who maintained only resistance could win. hamas was formed one month after plo le declaration. advocating coexistence with the zis entity early 1988.

after oslo and then the gaza withdrawal in 2005, hamas entered and won the elections in gaza and became the defacto government. the armed wing of hamas, the isaldin brigade, has been branded as a terrorist organization for more than 20 years. in late 2021, the uk moved to ban hamas in total, including its political wing. since the law. of alaxa flood on october 7th, there has been propaganda war over the role of hamas in the resistance, in the idea that hamas was created or supported by the zionists. this misunderstands the history by confusing the support given by the zionists to the politically quietest muslim brotherhood in order to undermine the more radical plo with the more militant politics associated with hamas. later when ariel sharon attempted to liquidate the plo, hamas did benefit, but its victory in the 2006 election marked the realization of the zionists that it had become their main enemy.

since then they were mark periods when the various factions of the resistance were at odd with each other, but in the most recent years all the resistance factions have made peace and work as one. david, just say a word or two will you about the muslim brotherhood in palestine? so the muslim brotherhood of course is a transnational movement if you like with independent parts in different countries. what in the uk and of course this been very much targeted uh in this country, for example was investigation uh the cameron government which is prompted by uh z interests lobbing for for that. investigation to try and suggest that the muslim brotherhood were terroris now of course muslim brotherhood is uh not a terrorist organization and in this country it's politically active in has been politically in the anti-w movement very important to the anti- war actually in this country but in palestine there were two separate factions of the muslim brotherhood the egyptian brotherhood and the bardanian brother in the west bank and gaza yeah and they were at the

time quite politically quiet so that what you found was that the plo as kind of ridical nationalization was by far the most radical threat to the zinis entity engaged struggle was the muslim brotherhood or not, it was a split from the muslim brother which led both you palestinan islamic jihad which of course is more radical those smaller of movts today and of course hamas and they became the radical cutting edge of resilience that's when the the idea of using them to undermine pl became something which designers didn't want to do and and of course that's that's the story right the hamas was not created by uh by israel idea that's it's a cat sp for western interest is a is fantasy and people in the should abandonn any such beliefs understand that the resistance is is serious resistance against not just design entity but against western interest and imperialism in the whole region yeah well god you want to say something about the evolution of your thinking on resistance well look it was

always very clear to me from the very i suppose from the very... beginning of my activism or my awareness that that we to fight to get our country back, it was always very clear to me that whatever name you wanted to give it, the end result had to be the reclamation of palestine and all of it for the palestinians and that those palestinians like myself, the millions living in when registered refugee camps, all those people had the right to go back. and reclaim their homeland, it was always very clear to me that that was the aim, so next question was, how do we get that, and i was really willing to support anything um that, almost anything, that would looked as if it might get us there, yeah, that included difference, i never had a sort of a fe, many palestinians

are like me, didn't sort of think, oh, we can only support this if it's religiously motivated. to get the country back and they'll back whatever it is that looks likely get us there now having that i can't disguise the fact that i was never keen on religious type resistance movements because always felt that they missed the point point about is not religion, it's theft of band, very simple, so really you have to get hold of the thief and s the thief out and get the land back, so you don't need religion as a motivating factor, however, i have to say that over time and observing the way that not only hamas, but

hizballah in lebanon has fought uh their resistance wars so... "not only bravely, but so cleverly, yeah, is very impressive, and if and in the end, i ended up saying, not only me, but many others like me, by saying, well, if it takes religion to get you to function like this, so be it, indeed, indeed, i think one of the important takeaways from the video that we just watched is that it contricks, doesn't it those who claim that mass was created by designs, it does, i think this is a mistake that um, you saw in the film clip from the intercept making that kind of, but there have been many other kinds of arguments like that, and you you see i've seen lots of people tweeting little cutings from hts with netan talking about supporting him, it's a mistaken, it's a misunderstanding, and of course what what we really see is the the

attempt on parts of the left, i think to to misunderstand resistance in palestine and to think... because of because of the horror that we currently are seeing, because of the children, the bombing of the buildings, the raising of gas, people think that means that the palestinis can do nothing, their only choice is is to stay in the homes and die or to leave into the s, which of course is designing, but actually what we what we see if we pay close attention is that there has been really very significant resistance in gaza and indeed of course in in the west bank and of course also on the northern border from hezbolah very very serious resistance which has had really significant effects on the the occupation forces and we're not seeing much of the reporting of that, if you're paying attention to social media, telegram, you see lot of that kind of stuff, that is it's the mistake is to think... that that isn't happening and that isn't a significant actor in in this whole period of course it is very significant actor we would never had the changes for the the palestini hostages in israeli jails if it wasn't for

that of course of course i mean um god i mean what would do you say to those who insist that we must condemn hamas i mean pes morgan is a classicification point every guess he ever has on when talking about this issue first as the will you condemn hamas what should the response be to well characters like that it's good that you bring this up because it's really ' infuriating, you you are being asked a very important question, before you allowed to answer, you have first to make this declaration, i condemn has, well no, the the the really the proper answer to that is this not a question of condemnation, it's a question of trying to understand why people behave like this, what makes them do that, that's what really that it has to face this issue of this word condemn. you know, and the other way to deal with it, which is not original to me, but it's perfectly correct, is to ask the the person asking one

this question, when did you last condemn an israeli spokes person or representative for the actions of the israeli army? there's a good response i saw on social media where someone was asked about in a demonstration, what about october the 7th, well what about october, what about october the 9th, what about october the try to walk away? the question yet going on the day and then he was and what about you every day back to 1948 so yeah mean i think you're absolutely uh right we do need to to push back back against that but i'm afraid to say we are out of time so that's it for another show i'd like to thank our guest dr garmy and of course our resident expert professor david miller palestine classified we'll be back next week with more forensic investigations and analysis and in the meantime you can follow the show on facebook twitter and where we post regular clips and updates and remember to share today's program on your social media platforms, so until next time, this is chris williams for saying, bye for now,

this years 10 years since nelson mandelies in december 2013, i meet the israel regime. we fully support the efforts of the palestinian resistance to oppose the zionist entity and his 75 years of mass and deputy foreign minister the genocide that has been

either you're with us or you're with the enemy, there's no in between, and that doctrine still stands, لو وافق صدام على كل قرارات الامم المتحده وعلى كل ما تريده الولايات ال فكان قد اطيح به كان المفروض عندما يسقطون النظام يسلمون الدوله للمعارضه هم اسقطوا النظام والدوله معا وسلموا المعارضه صراع على السلطه اول من وجه ضربه للامريكان في العراق هی الفصاء الشیعیه المدعوه من ابومهدی یک سؤال بزرگ در مقابل آمریکا ایجاد شد که شما اشغال کردید آمریکا را چی عراق رو چی به دست آوردید؟

humanitarian sease fire in gaza, the us rejected the non-binding resolution, but some of its key allies such as france back to call for ending the israel. iran's permanent ambassador to the un has called on the international community to take a decisive step to stop israel's barbaric crimes. says the regime pursues scorched land policy in gaza. he was speaking in general assembly meeting on gaza.