no sea spire. the international court of justice rules the israeli regime must take steps to prevent acts of genocide in gaza, but stops short of ordering a ceasefire. here is part of the ruling read by american judge joan donahu. shal take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of article two and article three of the convention on the prevention and the crime of

genocide against members of the palestinian group in the gaza strip. the courts judges are yet to rule on the merits of the genocide allegations brought by south africa, which may take years to decide. meanwile, more palestinians are being killed by the hour. a partide israel's army has killed more than 183 palestinians across the gaza strip in the past 24 hours. in less than 4 months, the us israeli military campaign has killed more than 20. thousands more are missing under the rubble, most of them presume dead. well plenty to get into with my guests here in the studio, co-founder of ethics virtue ethics foundation, ali azam and on skype in south africa, naim jinnah, the executive director of the johannesburg-based afro-middel east center. naim's research areas include the geopolitics of the mena region, security studies in south african. and african

politics, gentlemen, thank you both for being here, i'll start with you, naim, you heard the part of the ruling there, your reaction to the icj's in trim ruling, well the the instinct of nejak reaction was, why didn't of they indicate cease fire as a provisional measure? i i think that it's understandable why that would be the kind of instinctive reaction of many of us, but i think when we look at the rule. overall, it's a very good ruling, it it says that israel has case to answer for in terms of genocide, doesn't rule whether it is, but it has case to answer about that, it accepts south africa's narration of all of the acts that south africa says are genocidal acts, except though, accepts those as possibly constituting genocide, it accepts south africa's statement of all of the comments made by israeli politicians. as intent for

genocide as being possibly intent for genocide, and and then in the provisional measures, while it it tosses the ball into the israeli court almost completely, but what it does say is that for example that israel must ensure that it prevents the killings of of members of the group of palestinians in ghaza, which essentially means that it should stop killing those members of those group. now i let me just say this, that the best we could expect out of this was moral victory. israel was not going implement anything that the court had decided, they made that clear. netanyahu said that few days ago regarding the the court would disdain actually, and so what we did get is moral victory, a statement that the world will not allow israel to get away with its crimes, that it will be investigated, and i think... the global south

a sense that international international law is also something that is valuable for us and not just for countries of the global north and also of course some are saying that one of the other achievements of the south african action with the icj was that it highlighted the plight of the palestinians, the the the struggle that palestinians have been in for so many years and brought it into... center stage um, ali, how do you think this ruling is going to go down with the um biden administration in the united states and and their western um allies, uh, keeping in mind some are also saying that what happened today showed the limit of the icj's power because they couldn't um go so as so far as challenging the united states who would eventually have been held accountable for having. sponsored genocide? i think it's

the hearing, of course, what has come out as we would have hoped a cease fire, immediate cease fire, but "the way things have been and the way the power structure you know is with those countries as us and uk and i think it's a it's a good step that what it has done is that put those countries which have been complicit in arming israel and supporting politically giving a cover, i think that they would be at notice an extreme notice to continue their complicity and i think that is a good start given how" things have been, i mean my area of field is political philosophy and just looking at from a you know more like macro bird's eye view if you like, it's always justice has always been in reality serving the interest of the stronger and i

think that has been something in a long time in the modern history that we can see that has been challenged, the implications how they will... unfold, i think it's too early is just you know few hours, so i think once the absorption has been taken, i think lot of avenues will open up to see where the narrative, how the narrative goes, but i think speaking to a political analyst palestinian from naplus, he was quite happy with the news, he said that if it had been just the seas fire or you know just a war for israel that would never open the avenues of more detailed kind of observation and observing the acts of israel and bringing them into the four, so i think in in those terms it's been a, it's been a good news to that, obviously the lives are not prevented

being lost as we speak, yeah, but in longer picture, long term, and name, again to ally's point about highlighting. palestinian um plight um what and that's exactly what the south african case has done and south africa was the country that stood up and was counted um when many others shied away give us some context as to why south south africa has been so keen on on taking this action against the israeli regime? well one thing of course is that south africa has a relationship as as a state has a relation relationship from 1994-95 with the palestinians, before that of course our liberation movement had relations particularly with the plo, so there is that kind of a context, and also the other context is that apartate south africa and apartate israel had very close relationships including

in the development of nuclear weapons, so that's one part of the background, but if i can say as as a critic of the south african government that what the government has done over the past three and half months on the palestinian issue is more than it has done in the past 30 years frankly, so so what spurred it on in the past three and half months, i think that part of it was just the the sense that israel has now gone way beyond any any kind of sense of decency in terms of its in terms of its actions, beyond being defensible, beyond being acceptable, and so it took a number. steps, i mean, the relationship between south africa and israel has been on shaky ground from around 2014, but in the past few months that has strengthened, the israeli ambassador being demarhed, i am our diplomats being recalled,

he being recalled back to to israel etc. and it was in a sense accumulative thing, but it also comes a point where south africa had last year, taken the decision that at the general assembly at the end of 2023 it was going to propose motion for the reconstitution of the special committee against apartate and part of the reason main reason for that was that that committee could deal with the issue of israeli apartate, of course october 7th and the aftermath happened and all of that didn't take place, but these building blocks were being were being put into place. i think for many people, including many south africans, it was quite surprising the manner in which the south african government was solidly united on this issue. just few minutes ago i heard the speech of our president siral ramaposa on on the issue, siril rama posa, when he became

president, many thought that he was too close to the to the zianist lobby in south africa, but has increasingly been using the term apart tape to describe israel and was fully behind this action, continues to refer to israel's actions as genocide, etc., so i think that that south africa has has felt that it needed to turn a corner, and the response has been, of course great for as south african, i can say, particularly from the global south, and despite everything you said, it it makes one wonder what kind of impact all of this is having um on the israeli regime, and i would go to ali with this one, and that is a comment by the israeli socal minister of security, idamar bin gabir who said, first of all he called the icj anti-semitic. "and that the ruling they're going to throw it out of the window, that it is not binding to the israeli regime

whatsoever, how do what is your assessment if you will, what is your reading into a comment like that coming from someone in the israeli government? well, i think that we have become accustom to the kind of narrative that has been used by the israeli officials in the last three months and something that nobody would ever expected, you know, the kind of narrative that has..." i think we've just become now used to and and understand the position that they're taking. i think what remains to be unfolded in the coming months is the implication of what has happened, your question, which i i you know, which also encompass the bigger question that why nothing of such nature has been done before, i think that is something where we need to bring our focus to that using. human rights in itself, you know, which is sometimes being complated with imperialism and and

strategies, but the fact that you human rights is such a strong force, country like south africa, which is had his own historical, you know facts in the past, but the fact that they've used that platform of human rights, i think it has shown the profoundness that it contains, i think it needs to be assimilated in... mobilized in a more broader consciousness in the world at the moment, and only then we can see how it contributes to challenging such statements that has come out today, and as you say, it's early days, we're going to have to wait and see how these things will transpire moving forward. just a quick reminder to our viewers that this is gaza under attack, if you've just tuned in, with me, as we shine a spotlight on the ongoing usraley carnage in the gaza strip. well more and more jews are taking a stand against israel as the genocide unfolds in gaza, saying they don't want such

violence committed in their names. one such individual is rabbi marcus of naturai kartai international, speaking at genocide memorial day held here in london just last week. he said the zionists misinterpret the torah, which makes them the amalak themselves. i came here to show our position. for the palestinians support, that's what the israel is doing is really disgrace, what's killing so much people and destroying all city, that is really, really sad, and we come forward to show our our support for palestine and to say, that's in the cannot do it in the name of jews because the torah is not allowing to

kill and take any land, we are in exile behind the nations, we are baay to the nations, we were not allowed to do all this terrible terrible sin, the problem is designists make so much influence in the people that they choose. false scriptures from the torah to use it against what the torah said and using for their terrible thing, because the torah says a malek, what is written all the scriptures is the people where they against the torah, what they not abeying what the tor said, they are the malik, not someone... what is not a jew is malik, that is very clear a jew is go

rebelling against the torah, izamalics, well let's go to gaza and see where what's happening there, in battered hard to reach north gaza, there are rare aid deliveries to people desperate for food, aid workers report seeing people thin and visibly starving with sunken eyes and those who line up to get their ration in other parts of the enclave are: targeted by the israeli regime's military, have look, what happened is that people went out to get their food for their day and flour, can't find anything eat, israeli tank suddenly appeared, they hit people with shells, not fire, they hit people with shells, they cut people into pieces, including my nephew here, we brought him to the hospital a donkey cart, let's continue with the conversation with my guests, ali azama and naim jinnah, naim, how will the

world um look at these institutions such as the icj in terms of their obligations in protecting innocent people and how genocide would be defined um globally with regard to uh the way this ruling came out. well, i think the one thing that has been made clear uh despite the the israeli protestations about it, is that genocide is something that is a potentially a universal phenomenon, the notion of genocide as being something that is exclusively done to to jews is not correct, and and of course, this rubbish about the icj being anti-semitic, it comes after netanyahu and others have called the un secretary general a terrorist called unirwa terrorism and the red the red cross as enabling terrorism etc. but this kind of highlights

that notion that israel and other global... are the states of the global north can be held to these standards and international law, i mean international law was, it wasn't developed by us, international law was developed by europeans in order to regulate contest and rivalry between themselves, the rules of war were what they applied between themselves, not what they applied when they colonized our nations. i mean, while they had international law so callalled between themselves, they were committing genocides in congo and... and namibia, my neighbors for example, what this has shown is that we in the global south can now use international law and will use international law in order to protect ourselves against powerful nations the global north, and so i think from that perspective as well, it's it's a very important kind of fact that this was taken to

the icj and the ruling of the icg. correct, and ali, let's look at this from moral standpoint. how is it possible for for example the israeli military call it to call itself the world's most moral uh military yet commit such heinous acts against the palestinians in the gaza strip or the americans who lecture the world about morality and yet support and sponsor and arm a genocide at the hands of the israelies against the palestinians. how do we explain this? it's unexplainable um but i think what is important is the fact that in israel at the moment 80% plus are pro war, i think that's where we need to kind of you know look into and see why those opinions have not been shifted yet, as you quite widely pointed out, lot of young jews in states especially and

lot of organizations are standing against, as we speak, there are israelis prevent. aid from getting into the gaza strip, this is this is the predicament of identity politics and some sense and how nations and societies are somehow kind of psychologically designed almost to think of a situation as it is, but i think that i think in the in the coming days and months especially with this, i think this has set a precedence that one can restore their hope and values. because what has been going on in the last three months, it was almost a slow death of hope in the hands of humanity, and there was no recourse, and as much as frustrated usually people are from different nations and all that against and pro, but the fact is that there was no recourse and and usually the the platforms that are used cannot provide and yield

certain results that i think icj has achieved today or south africa has achieved today and i think this this sets a precedence that this is where we need to be going, i think is crucially important the fact that lot of jews are antionist and and see the oppression that is taking place and injustices and genocide is taken place, i think that's where the mainstream needs to tap into, because so long as we are looking at it from a binary perspective of our... where you know it's almost accident of the birth where we born if you were born the other side you'd be supporting that, so i think the the idea of human rights and and bringing the plight of palestinians into light and bringing... the awareness about what human dignity means, i think in itself is a is a great achievement, and we hope that we also take from the other

side a steps which kind of unite people from all all sides rather than a binary approach to this issue, because if it continues to be binary then at some point even those who are standing against at some point you know those those emotions can get trump. yes, so i think this is where we all need to kind of focus and and commend and we shall, and we shall, i think we have question time for one final question, and i'll put it to naim uh in johannesburg, what, what, what do you think will happen next, considering the fact that we will be looking at um, the court looking into the allegation of genocide, uh, today's... ruling was or friday's ruling was a precursor to the full genocide case, which could take years as we know, any predictions?

well, as you say, it will take years, two, three, maybe four years, and we hope of course that the finding ultimately was that this this was genocide, or genocidal, and that will open the door for for icc cases against those who had perpetrated the genocide etc. in the... term, i don't believe that any of us expect that israel is going to stop its bombing or listen to anything that the icj said, but i do think that what south africa has done has opened the door, particularly for other countries in the global south. indonesia has announced that they want to go to the icj challenging the legality of israel's occupation, which is very important matter, but there's other possibilities, i mean, we hope that another another state for example will go to the icj. because the genocide convention also points the finger at states that are complicit with genocide, it places on all states the

responsibility to prevent genocide and points the finger at those which are complicit, and so hopefully another state will say, well what about the united states and what about the uk and particularly also germany, all of which are complicite in this genocide and they needs to be a ruling against them, so i'm i'm hoping that one of the other kind of spin-offs of this will be more of these cases that put these states of the global north that have been a bit too comfortable in the way they've dealt with the issue of human rights and democracy and assuming that that means only people of the global south have to abide by human rights that that comfort will be disrupted and they will be made to be held account yes and of course maybe countries out there maybe even south africa might take action against individuals in israel uh with the icc. um, thank you very much, aliasm, we're fresh out of time, naim jinna ma, many thanks, it's been a pleasure speaking with

you both, and thank you for watching this program, gaza under attack will be back next week with more. until then, keep palestine in your hearts, goodbye. when palestinian journalist shirin abule was killed by his sniper on may 11, 2022, the israelis meant to get across a clear message, that they don't want any narrative other than

their own and the decades old occupation of palestinian lands and their aggression. it wasn't the first time israel sought to put gag on the alternative narrative, and every time it has failed. watch the history of the israeli measures and palestinian counter measures in this documentary.

thank you, thank you.

your headlines on press tv, hundreds of palestinians are killed in fresh israel strikes on gaza day after the international court of justice ordered israel to take steps to prevent acts of genocide. iron says the ruling by the international court of justice on the israeli war on gaza is bitter proof of international crime. including genocide committed in gaza. and lebanon's resistance movement has bolah targes and issuly military based in shabar farms using a new type of missile.