nepier co-founder of the scottish palestine solidarity campaign joins us from edinburg. also joining us is mu, human rights activist who joins us from houston texas. welcome to you both. i'll start first with you mick napier and uh taking a look at what the us role is in all of this. well, based on some comments that we're reading on the us, it's been described as being very hypocritical. where it tells uh israel uh not only to watch for civilian casualties, but uh just recently us president joe biden uh said that uh what's happening there is over the top uh but then we know that uh they're providing uh the israeli regime with arms and weapons uh what do you make of the us stance when it comes to this uh genocidal war? well i'm sure it's all being negotiated or pretty much all being negotiated between washington and and tell of of

aviv what the american utterrances are going to be. it's clear americans want to exert some kind of gentle pressure on the genocide. i believe a couple of weeks ago mr. by, mr. blinton asked for the american, the israelis uh, maybe use smaller bombs to do the killing, not 500 and one thousand pound bombs. i think blincan seems to want kind of gentle genocide, because they are getting up to us elections, biden would prefer to win um, and there's no man. among the public for what america is is supporting, i mean that's in the usa, so i mean obviously it's hypocritical, i mean hypocrisy doesn't begin to describe the american position, which is to send the weapons, to carry out the genocide, to protect israel diplomatically at the un and in other international fora, and at the same time to appear publicly to say, could you alleviate some of the bad publicity eminating from this genocide, which we support and which we have all supported,

we've supported previous genocidal attacks, we're supporting this one, we will support previous, we will support future ones, but just have an eye to our uh to biden's election needs and try to help us to manage it in terms of public opinion, but it seems that that's a that's a very tall order indeed, and we are seeing a readiness on the part of larger numbers of people than ever before to take action against the us government inside the usa, our other guest can can shed much more light on that, but we seem to certainly i can say that that's the case in in the uk and and in the eu that the the the us regime and the other pro israel regimes seem to need to ride a wave of of popular hostility to what they're doing. we saw recently in in holland, in the netherlands, sorry, that pop, popular pressure has led this the supreme court there to forbid the the dutch government from sending more, aircraft parts to to israel, so

there's interesting things developing at that level, it's a response to public opinion, but of course the american government is completely dishonest in managing the genocide and appearing to try to be critical at the same time. well, muss and maybe you can tell us why this hypocrisy is going on. i'm going to make a reference now to the you foreign policy chief joseph barall to confirm what i just asked uh our guest mcnapp here where he pointed to us president joe biden's uh remarks about over the top. and he said, well, if you believe quote, too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms in order to prevent so many people to to be killed. um, first of all, is that does that surprise you that it's coming from the eu, and the foreign policy chief of the eu, joseph barall? yeah, so it's it's not surprising because the atrocities that israel is committing in gaza has had an effect on on on all global powers. so... for a scottish

person who is also the head of the eu, for him to come out and announce his solidarity towards palestine and announce his his his willingness to pressurize the governments who support israel in terms of demilitarizing israel by by by stop by by stopping their funding that goes to towards israel is commendable. having said that just a day ago, as you already mentioned, 14 billion dollars um were were signed off by by congress to support israel, so we see blincon, we see we see blincon and we see joe biden trying to show solidarity, trying to to tell their constituents that they have soft corner for palestine, but their actions are very different, you see the democrats and like the republicans. on the muslim vote, they rely on

the arab vote, the they're very sensitive to any kind of accusations of islamophobia, as protests in the... us are rising and as people are coming to the streets, that is putting lot of pressure, especially on the democrats, especially on joe biden, and with the elections close by, we will see hypocritical statements from democrats specifically, in which at the back end you see them funding the crimes of israel, funding this genocide, enabling this genocide, but also hypocritically showing their empathy and sympathy towards it's quite looking a headline here mcnapier that says a incredible the way that the us however is playing this out, if you agree, mean i'm democratic senator has called the israely leadership war criminals but then votes to

send them $14 billion anyway mean is that what we're looking at when it comes to the us, mean this is just i'm not too sure it's a different those two clash together in terms the stand what do you make of that? well, thank you. mean it's incredible isn't it? um, what we what we see from from from our public figures? the fact is they have no mandate among public opinion for supporting genocide, but you on the other hand, let's remember the american state has supported multiple genocide. violent attacks over the years in southeast asia, in central, south america and elsewhere. this is new to some extent because it's visible on tv, but the but the killing of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions of people in

southeast asia um is something that's on the public record, so this is something which the u it does and it always has to manage public opinion, they remember that they were. by the vietnamese resistance and the american people to to to to to retreat from vietnam, it was it was an amazing moment in history and they're worried about that, they're always worried that a popular anti-war movement can get out of conspiral out of control, so they have to manage that, it's not, it's not even just that they look at the level of our of our movement at the moment, they have historians to teach them lessons and they know that this can become much much bigger so... they need soft message, i mean it's ridiculous in a sense while you send one thousand pound bombs and and and tens of thousands of shells for the commission of what the international court of justice says is very plausibly a genocide um and then on

the other hand try to say that um really israel has to has to do it a little bit more gently it's preposterous it's absurd um but i think everything now depends upon the uh "the tenacity of the palestinian resistance, the the resistance is heroic, it's it's it will go down in history as something utterly remarkable against insuperable odds, the the the yemen, the yemen, the yemen is coming to their support so so wonderfully and and can we apply some also some significant pressure in the us and in the eu as well, can i just say a word sir, that it's not, it seems to be an article of faith that the only" government that can really influence israel is the us, but actually the eu is israel's biggest trading partner, and without the sweetheart deals from the eu, israel could not exist in its present form, so they're very worried about that as well, we see movements in spain

in belgium, ministers calling for finance to to um to continue to pursue the the israelis at the europe at the international court of justice, so they're worried about the potential, and balancing between those two things, the the the the ongoing and repeated support by the state for genocide and this current genocide, and the fact that there's no popular mandate for that whatsoever, and growing popular rage, i would say is not too strong award. well, here we are, i mean, we're looking at the way that there's a double standards that are play here, for example, even what the you uh foreign policy chief josephl has said was criticized by the... finance minister of greece varfacus, he has said you when joseph burell says that, as we speak, germany, and i'm quoting him, france and italy are sending armaments that are being used in raffa to kill people, so

this brings us to the whole point of uh slamming israel or criticizing israel for the deaths, but at the same time as foreign policy chief when you could exert your influence to stop. member countries from sending arms to the israel regime, which is resulted in the obviously the deaths of palestinians, so isn't there a double standards that play here, that is just all talk when it comes to uh these important officials? as my counterpart mentioned, the role that the eu has played in in the support of israel and the fact that without the the trading relations that the eu has with israel, it would have been, it would be practically impossible for israel to exist, but it's commendable the way we've seen ireland and the way we've seen spain come out, not just the people, but a governmental level, the the fact that they have expressed solidarity towards palestine. and they have um, i think unethically stated their their

their understanding, the correct understanding, which to some extent is in line with the icj of the zinist actions in in palestine, it's commendable, these are things that we've never seen before, and as my counterpart was also also mentioning that the popularity of the resistance, the popularity the palestinians. right to to struggle and exist has now expanded in territories which we thought were impossible in our in our minds, meaning we see the we see west asia, we've seen south asia give support to palestine, but we now see north america, the people of north america, we see countries in the eu showing support to palestine and also... um pressurizing their governments um through through through through different

means through protests, through non-cooperation movements to doing die in protest outside their government officials who are responsible who are the decision makers in their countries, so these are these are these are development that we haven't seen before, south america, south america stance, the stance that african countries are taking, it almost seems like the world is... palestine, except a few countries who stand with israel, and those countries without a doubt, if not now, then soon will be isolated by the world. make nap here, so let's focus on some of the countries in this region, namely the west asian region, on the one hand you have countries like lebanon, iraq, iran, syria, they're doing what they can, in their own form, in their own way, especially when you're looking at obviously what's happening um i should obviously mention yemen also, um, but then you have other countries like saudi

arabia, bahrain, the uae, egypt, why do you think those countries are not doing more uh to help with what's happening there, this genocide and onslot on the gaza strap? i think because the rulers of these countries are locked into the alliance um of last resort with the usa, they depend upon the usa to protect them against their own peoples um and and and you ever since the ever since design is conquest of most of of palestine, the jordanian regime and uh has you seized a part of it, the egyptians were happy enough to take a small piece called gaza and and and the other regimes stood aside by and large and so and there's a long history of of under the table collaboration that comes out into the open with morocco and oman and others of collaboration with israel, they have no loyalty whatsoever to the palestinian people,

and they have a long record of supporting the people who are trying to disposses them, there's nothing mysterious about this, because they are um sort of antique monarchies relying on um, you know, public pasivity or or or disempowerment in order for the regimes to survive, they really do need the usa um as as the ultimate protect. and britain sent in special forces to crush insurrection in oman you know some decades ago uh and the americans would could be relied upon to do something similar if called upon so they all report to the same head office at the moment um and for many of them the price of good relations with uh with washington the sale of arms uh diplomatic military support and so on is that they soften any opposition to israel or build an or build an op security uh cooperation with israel in the case of the of the uae, so so i

mean, i think the idea that any arab regime will support or will will fight against a regime, which kills palestinians because they are arabs and not jews and wants to drive them out and replace them with jews, i think that idea is is passed it cell by date, because the tight relationship between these regimes in washington uh predisposes them to align with israel, and if that's two on... popular with their populations who hate these policies, then they try to mask it to some degree, but there's a long, long disgraceful history of relations between these arab regimes egypt signed the peace treaty soon after the 73 war uh up to the present day when when saudi arabia was on the brink of normalizing relations with uh with israel before uh before before before the october 7 breakout which upset that particular apple count you know it's one thing uh for these arab uh countries most enoughly not to help

um or do much more uh than what they have not done at this point but it's another thing to actually help israel when it comes to for example um the uh transit of goods, from what we're looking at uh you have a countries like the uae, egypt, morocco, jordan and bahrain um where their exports to israel has increased and there's even a reports of how uh because of the red sea tensions uh the land area that involves uh whether saudi arabia, the uae or egypt uh for route to be taken uh to reach the occupied palestinian lands uh leading the uh trade aspect of this morocco a 128% increase and then you have egypt that 73.5 uh followed by uh bahrain 54.5. i mean isn't that a stab in the back to the palestinians? there's no doubt that that's a stab in the back and what else do we expect from from these kings from these rulers who impose their uh their their their

system on their people who are oppressing their own people um "a country like yemen who just survived the war, takes a solid stance against israel and attempts to help their palestinian brothers by by engaging aid to israel at their front and you find you find their own muslim brothers, so callalled muslim brothers in in the shape of countries like bahrain, um, qatar, morocco, who are basically..." jeopardizing the action of the yemanies by stabbing them in the back, by giving way and giving space to israeli supporters. this is no doubt a stab in the back, and the the one thing that these so-called arab rulers need to understand is that history will not forget the crimes that

they have committed, the crime that they have committed against their muslim brothers, the crime that they have committed against humanity. as a whole, because um, they are so heavily dependent on the us government, it is almost as if the us government controls them, they have no, they have proven to have no sovereinity whatsoever, how can how can a kingdom, a ruling body show any kind of effort or show a stance against oppression when they are funded by the very oppressor which is? the us and the eu, so there is zero hope from from these people, they have proven to be criminals, they have proven to be a party to the genocide and the atrocities that the israelies have committed, and for the most part until they revoke their their current, their current status in terms of their actions towards israel, they stand

parallel to the us, to the eu and designist regime today uh this um uh talks uh or should i say pause or a truice uh that's being um uh discussed in kairo egypt at this point is the second round that's happening um and and you know there's such a divergence views when it comes from either side on some key issues that it's an it should spell a non-starter but yet the talks are continuing anyways. um, how do you see these talks? first of all, um, we've had netanyahu dismiss it in the first uh round uh, if i may use it that use that word, and then now here we are we're looking at what is happening where for the next couple days to three days, they're going to continue even though theo again is uh being defined and saying that uh, you know hamas demands um are not things that we're going to comply with, what do you think? it's very

difficult to predict, but what we do know for... sure is that in a war between a military power such as israel which has the latest technology on the military technology in the planet, sometimes it's delivered to them before the american army even gets it, between a force like that and a popular fighting force like the palestinian resistance, probably working under the most difficult conditions in history of any of any anti- colonial uh resistance, much harder even than than than than south than aiden in the past or algeria or syria or whatever, the fact that the israel have not won is really decisive, because in such a war that the the military power has to exterminate their enemies, has to crush them and defeat them,

whereas the popular forces only have to continue fighting, and they're winning, uh, they only have to avoid defeat, and that's what's happening in gaza at the moment, against overwhelming odds, israel went in there, thinking that they could uh defeat the palestinian resistance in a very, very short time, and from october till till february, they're still fighting, they're still not winning and so so that that aspect is is absolutely remarkable. now in that situation, what's israel going to do? it it it can, it's it's it's taking tremendous pressure inside israel from the families of the of of those who were captured and taken back into gaza by by the palestinian resistance, tremendous pressure, so is netanyahu going to continue carpet bombing? um killing large numbers of palestinians, tens of thousands, but in the process killing more and more of the israeli uh captives, he might say that he's going to do that, but that's a very difficult road for

him to take, he's already deeply unpopular in israel and the families uh are determined in in opposing them, but on the other hand, israel is a regime of six million zionist jews, there's another million jews are not zionist, surrounded by hundreds of millions of people in the... region who know what israel is, who hate that regime's crimes, okay, and and for israel to to continue to exist, it needs the support of america and europe, yes, but it also needs to terrorize uh some of the regimes in the region, otherwise, otherwise, it could not possibly survive and such sea of intense hostility for what they've done, and increasing numbers of people across the region understand that when the ministers and the government currently uh supporters dance and sing and say, we're coming for lebanon, after this we'll take jordan, uh, sing and so on. increasing numbers of people realize that this monstrous

regime is lethal for palestinians, but it's also a threat to the entire region, so how this is going to play out in the short term, we don't know, the israelis don't have a plan, um, it's difficult to know how to going to behave over the next week, except murderously. well, uh, we're looking at the short-term here where uh, the... prime minister benjamin netanyahu mavi has said, we're going to fight until complete victory, and this includes powerful action in raffa after allow the civilian population to leave the battle zones. the question is, where are they going to, where are they going escape to? there's nowhere safe in gaza, and we know that, and you're looking a 1.4 roughly palestinians who are there, and uh, where is there going to be concerted effort to prevent another genocide top of the genocide that's happening to take place? rafa is a red line and israel has already crossed that red line um after facing defeat from on all different

fronts and you see the attack the recent attack on rafa is evidence to the defeat of israel, it shows how desperate they are, they're willing, they're willing to take um the criticism of the world, they they're willing to... take all of that, because they see attack on innocent women and children who are who have nowhere to go, they see that attack as a way to pressurize the resistance movement, as a way to as a way to pressurize the resistance movement, so there is the only the only way out for the palestinians, now even in rafa would be to fight back, when you when you they have nowhere else to go, egypt is not complying, it's quite clear and that they won't comply, there is it's either egypt or it's it's the it's the sea, so the only thing that those palestinians will be left

with will be to also fight back again, thank you so much for that, human rights activist, mcnapper, thank you for your contribution, co-founder of the scottish palestine solidarity campaign from edinburg, with that we come to an end for this edition of the spotlight from the team, it's goodbye. after the occupation of palestinian lands and creation of the israeli regime, both sides came to realize the power of cinema in getting their messages across. israeli regime used cinema to show the territory it had occupied as heaven on earth in in order to entice jews from all over the world to migrate to the occupied territories. on the

other hand, although belatedly... palestinians also learned to use the power of media and cinema to make their voice heard across the world. it was new battlefield for both sides. this is the story of nation that lived here for centuries until an obscure foreign. regime emerged and began farming on their lands and brought in new people to replace the old nation. they picked the focal point of attention of different religions in the region, a highly regarded place at the heart of this arabic islamic setting. what would have happened if hizbullah had been vanquished? that's perhaps the most significant and upsetting question about the 2006 war. much has been said about the 2006

war, about its motives, the behind the scenes and the circumstances around it.