welcome back to the electronic intofada podcast. i'm nora barrow's friedman with tamara nasar. today we're taking a look at israel's relentless attacks on hospitals and medical workers in gaza. we're especially focusing on the situation at nasar hospital in hanyunus. according to the palestinian health ministry on thursday, israeli forces attack. the hospital and ordered patients,

staff, and displaced people sheltering in the hospital complex outside, into adjacent buildings. the health ministry said that israeli forces ordered officials at nasa hospital to move 95 health personnel, 11 of their families, 191 patients and 165 companions and displaced people an old building ajacent to the hospital in harsh and frightening conditions, without food, without milk for children, and acute water shortage. dr. khalid sent these voice messages to us on thursday. since yesterday there is lot of updates about what happening here in nor hospital. there was a direct bombing to the hospital, they forced people inside the hospital including patients related. oh ya allah. patient, relatives and healthcare

workers to evacuate immediately, and you can hear in the background, the continuous bombing in the hospital. this comes after a week of intensifying attacks on the hospital and its grounds with armed israeli quadcopters, shooting at patients, doctors and hospital staff and israeli armored vehicles destroying parts of the wall around the complex. early thursday morning, israeli forces... shelled the patient ward at nasa of hospital, dr. alser sent us this video of doctors scrambling to move their patients out in the immediate aftermath of the bombing.

now on friday, the palestinian health ministry reports that, quote, three patients died in intensive care as a result of the power outage and the cessation of oxygen in the nasa medical complex. two women gave birth in in humane conditions without electricity, water, food and heating, and fourth patient at nasa was... murdered as a result of the cessation of electrical generators and the cessation of oxygen at dawn on friday. israeli occupation forces forced men, women and children to move from the old nasa building without luggage to the maternity building which they turned into a military barracks. that was from the health ministry on friday morning. joining us to talk about the current situation at nasa hospital and israel's systematic and relentless targeting of hospitals across gaza is dr. mads gilbert, mads is a norwegian

physician who for years has worked alongside doctors and nurses in gaza. dr. mads, welcome back to the electronic intefada podcast. thank you so much under dire conditions, but still good to see you. thanks to you so much as well. um, mads, you've been in touch with doctors and medical staff at nasa hospital over the last week, give us a sense of what they're dealing with. i mean, we we just saw those images of patients being ordered to evacuate. others lined up on their gernes in the corridor of an older building, and of of course we've heard the reports of quadcopters shooting anyone who moves inside the hospital and and in the courtyard near the entrance to the emergency department, what is going on here and what are you hearing from your colleagues there? actually what is going, what is going on in nasa hospital is pretty much the same that's been going on in almost all the palestinian. hospitals and health

care units, also the primary healthcare system for the last four months. this is of nadir, very low point in this long array of israeli systematic attacks on healthcare, on healthcare providers, on patients, on companions to the patients and on the thousands and thousands of forcefully displaced palestinians who have been seeking refuge and safety, some kind of safety in their hospitals, so what we're seeing at nasar now is the culmination of a systematic - operation mode by the israeli occupation army, which actually has the goal of dismantling healthcare in gaza, as it has been working for the last 20 years and destroying it completely, and with that destruction comes of course the the lack of

sufficient medical capacity for the wounded and for those with common diseases, for the pregnant women as we heard, and it is a systematic. way of attacking the palestinian people, and all these claims about you, you know, now the claim was hamas operatives and hostages, so far we haven't seen any proof of that, as we didn't see in shifa or in the cancer hospital, in the turkish friendship hospital or in rantissi hospital, so what the heroic palestinian healthcare workers in nasa hospital have been reporting, is actually that they have been continuing to treat patients in patients and patients who were brought to them despite of the seach of nasa hospital that has been going on for, i guess the better part of three weeks with surrounding tanks, threats, shooting,

targeting, quadrocopters, and then finally the last few days snipers shooting through the windows of the the the rooms in the hospital and even shooting into the icu and into the doctor's room and into anywhere where there are human beings, so they have been continuing their work, some of them left yesterday, some of them were shot at during the evacuation, not evacuation, but when they left the hospital, presumably through the safe roots that israel is lying about, and some are still in the hospital, and i'd like to read to you the text. that accompanied that movie, that little video you showed of the overcrowded corridors in this building to which the palestinians have been forced to evacuate the patients and the staff, which is by the way the oldest part of nasar medical complex, and he says in this message, the

situation now at nasar hospital, all of the patients and healthcare workers were displaced to one department, one other... buildings have been invaded by soldiers, we can hear the shooting and bombings everywhere, and then he continues and he finish up saying, please stop this madness, stop this war, this is hospital facility, not a battlefield, unquote, that's the appeal of an extremely brave medical doctor among the the thousands of brave healthcare personnel in gaza who have never yielded and never left. their patients, so my point is that it's horrible, and the most horrible thing about what is going on in nasar hospital now, is that this has been going on for four months without no power, stopping it, so um,

i don't know, i think the israelies with their impunity they just keep going, because no military force or political force or international alliance of... decent nations are able to stop them, the only one you can stop them is is the united states and they don't want to stop them, they continue to supply them with political support and weapons, so this madness is a result of deliberate politics deliberate policy from the united states and unfortunately also from many of the the european governments, yeah, so so i am extremely ' anxious about the fate these remaining patients and medical staff? it's it's unconstionable what we're seeing and hearing from nasa and and around and and as you said it's a microcosm of what's happening all over gaza. um can you talk

about the incident on wednesday where a detained palestinin man was sent by the israeli army to deliver their orders to evacuate the hospital uh this man was dressed in personal protective equipment, his hands were tied, and then after they were done with him, with using their human shield, essentially, the israelis executed him on the spot. the intercept had this article about that incident um and it also included a video, i think we can we can show that, so what happened today is a completely trap, completely trap, they sent hostage with cough hands to the hospital, asking him to tell us that we should evacuate, and when people started really evacuating, they open fire and they shoot. at the people and they killed the hostage also, that already sent by the idf at

the gate of the hospital. dr. mads, i mean, we didn't see any western media cover uh, you major corporate western media cover what happened um to that that detained man who was sent by the israelis to deliver their order to to evacuate and then was sumarily executed um. what do you make of this, what, what, how, how, how, how did this happen? well, i think it is, in many ways, we we should maybe not be shocked, right, but when you look at the individual level, how the israelis are treating the palestinians, you get this sickening feeling of racism and a disregard for human life that you you, you would not believe existed in our time a a one to one level. mean using a f35 to fly over gaza and do some pinpoint or or just bomb dropping,

you're not looking in the eyes of the other person, the other human, but this guy, he was forced at gun point to go and tell his fellow palestinians, you have to evacuate, and one thing you did not comment was that ironically they had put yellow band on his head, and for those history. is of course the yellow color and the yellow star used to be the way the nazis were marking the juice, if you had that yellow star you were doomed, so i don't why they put that yellow ban on his head, but to me that has very dark symbolism, he tries to convince his fellow palestinians, i have message, you have to leave, and this is don't forget this is after days and days of shouting from speakers and from the the the drones with loudspeakers and we've seen

videos how they call them out as animals and dirty whatever you know the israelies they shout to the people nasar and very derogating very you know shameful naming of them and then they send this this brave palestinian in and it's a human shield he comes back and they kill him so if any... but it dares tell me that the israeli army, the occupation army are not killers and murderers, you know, just look at this one situation, and it has to me a greater ramification and symbolism, it is that they don't, they don't dare face sort of a man to man or woman to woman situation, they they handcuff you, they they undress you, they force you to creep on the floor. i just got a message from from young palestinian medical student that his father

was released right now today, another brilliant palestinian doctor who has been working with fairless risking his life for four months. he's a colleague of mine, i've known him for 15 years, he was arrested three days ago, they released him today, and they had tortured him like they have. tortured so many of our colleagues while being in prison or in the concentration camp. this total disregard for for human life, this lack of respect for others than themselves, is i think one of the the main um one of the main, i don't like the word challenge, but the huge problem that we're facing is actually how the western world with the united states as the leader and the eu governments and the

canadians and the australians until was it yesterday have been supporting this massive israeli racism and colonialism against the palestinian people day by day knowing what is going on seeing the videos on social media and don't tell me that the deep state that the state department and intelligence in the united states doesn't know every single one these incidents and they accept it and they continue to support israel and that's why i i say that this is this maybe very disturbing illustration on on what has been called necropolitics by so we may discuss later, but i'd like to point to another fact, this is a report that came out today, actually, it's from the who, and it is summing up the number

of attacks on healthcare in gaza from the 7th of october. until the 12th of february, few days ago, and there has been not one, not two, not 10, there has been 378 attacks on healthcare in gaza by the israeli occupation army through these months, almost 400 attacks, so 100 attack per month on average, and 659 people have been killed during these attacks. healthcare and among them are as we know 340 healthcare workers and then 319 civilians like the ones who have been killed in nasa hospital and i want to underline this point because this don't make nasa hospital a sort of a special case right it's like human

memory has been reduced down to not a week but two days this has been going on for four month. for heaven sake, the un has known it, all the foreign departments of the of the world has known it, and only one state, republic of south africa had the bravery and the courage and the decency to stand up and say stop it and go to the icj and demand a stop, and there is no white government in the western world to my knowledge that has supported the rsa case in the icj, it's only government. from the global south, so even that step to try to control these crimes against humanity and this genocide has not been supported by the western government, what are they? what's happening? are we entering into a new dark era of neocolonialism? i fear that's what we're seeing, and just to to report a little bit

more on this, it's a very good graph, it's actually summing up the attacks in every one the four. governorates in gaza and how many hospitals? i'm sorry, five governorates and how many hospitals have been damaged and how many hospitals are out of function, but don't forget that 659 staff, patients and civilians have been killed during 378 israeli attacks on health care facilities. the primary healthcare sector in gaza is almost down to zero, there has been you know so many attacks on the clinics and they are almost all of them out of function, they have destroyed almost 100 ambulances and they have closed down most of the hospitals, only um six, i believe are now working, three in the north

and three or four in the south, but these numbers are are changing every day, and one more documentation, the right to health report from who and this is the report from 2022 and they have a special chapter which is called health attacks. if you think this number 378 during the four month of this attack is special, just read this report, they are reporting you know every single attack and from 2019 to 2021, who is reporting 560 three attacks on palestinian healthcare in gaza and the west bank right, so thousands of attacks going, unpunished, impunity, absolutely no consequences for the israeli occupation forces, these attacks, and every time i go to gaza, whether it's during bombing or in between when we do the research or teach or have projects in training people,

i get this same sense as you describe of very, very deep compassion. for life, a compassion for serving others almost like, i'm a marxist, i'm i'm a socialist, i'm a leftwinger, i'm you know, i've always been that, and and my my urge to use medicine as a tool of justice for uprights and to side up with the people fighting against injustice has always been part of my my determination as doctor, but to come to gaza and to the west bank and to see how these... colleagues of mine in all different specialties and and and professional positions, how they serve their people is a reminder? to me that you don't have to live in a in a well of western capitalist country in order to to give - to

give from your professionalism because you're well fed and you're you know you're in a safe position and you have everything you need so you have this del extra to be an activist or social entrepreneur or anything in gaza and in the west bank it's this huge deep rooted dedication to serve their people, you could call it the medical sowood or you could call it the medical persistence or you could go back to to rudolfkov who was a european pathologist who died in 1901 and he was the the founder of public health as a specialty in medicine and he was very pronounced he said that politics and medicine are true sides of the same thing. "it's about society and the conditions, the living conditions for people, and he also said that the doctor should be the advocate of the poor, the doctor should be the advocate of the poor,

because that's where the healthcare workers are needed, it's not needed for the rich people who can buy a private plane and go to a private clinic in whatever anywhere in the world, they always manage, but for the majority people, the healthcare workers are so important as their servants." "and as somebody who sides up with them and choose side with them, and to me the deepest ethics and ethos of medicine is to side up with those who need you, not to be neutral, not to stand on the outside and say, "i will not comment on the pol politics of this, i will not comment of the israeli army's attack on hospital, i will only comment on this and this patient, fine, but then you not..." serving as an advocate of the less fortunate, you have to choose side neutrality, neutrality in a position of oppression being executed against a large numbers of people or

even in a one to one situation, neutrality will end you on the side of the oppressor, as said the famous bishop from south africa, and and this neutrality of medicine is fake, medicine should actively... choose side with the less fortunate, with the oppressed, with the occupied, with the bombed ones and say, we are on your side, we will stay with you, we will not abandon you, and we will even risk or lives to serve you, and that's what we see in gaza, and i'm i'm immensely touched by the courage and the human dignity of the healthcare workers, and i want to mention one person who is often not mentioned, and that is dr. yosuf aburishh. is the minister of health in gaza, few people even know his name, i've known known him for 12, 13 years, and he's been the minister of health for the

last 12 years, i think, he's a pediatrician, he's quite young, he's married, he has, i believe five kids and he's an extremely warm human being, and he's one of my absolute role models in this world, he has been on call for. f month, night and day, never left his position as the leader of this incredibly brutally attacked healthcare system, and every time i talk to him, he has not given up, but he asked the question, how can this be allowed to go on? not only has israel, completely destroyed several hospitals, not a single hospital. on gaza out of the 36 remains fully functional, there are some that are partially functional, there are some that are barely functional, but not a single one out of the 36 remains fully functional, but

something dr. abasitte said that really stayed with me, is that not only is israel systematically targeting medical facilities, but they are targeting medical professionals, and israel's objective in targeting medical professionals is... to cripple the health sector by killing an entire generation of doctors to the extent that building the hospitals after the genocide would not even suffice to restore the health sector. mean, it's it's such an unspeakable thing. um, but this is all part of israel's goal to make gaza completely uninhabitable, and compelling palestinians to leave the gaza strip. which is one of israel's ultimate war goal, war goals, um, and i'm deeply troubled to to pose this question to you, dr. mads, but which

doctors? that you know of that israel has killed whose expertise and experience are nearly irreplaceable, especially within such a time frame, and what are the repercussions of decimating an entire health system in this way? i mean, we don't have many precedents that we can compare this to. diming report indicates that deaths from terrorism in africa have skyrocketed more than 100 thousand percent during the so-called us war ontella. the study by the africa center for strategic studies revealed

that during 2002 and 2003 when the us was just beginning its decades long war, total of just nine terrorist attacks were counted throughout all of africa, leading to only 23 casualty, but after two decades of us intervention in africa with a purported aim of helping the continent in counter terrorism, that's from takfiri violence in africa increased to 23,322 last year, reaching a record level of lethal violence, so what exactly are us troops doing in africa if they're not fighting terrorists as they claim? crisis, devastating wars, terrorism, the israeli lobby, crackdown, diplomacy:

occupation must end.