of in late 2023, south africa filed case at the international court of justice, icj over the israeli apath regime's genocidal war against palestinians in the besieged gaza strip. south africa stated that the televive regime has failed to uphold its commitments under the 1948 genocide convention. south africa filed the lawsit against israel regime at the end of december, noting that israel's actions in gaza that started last october - in

character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part of the palestinian national, racial and ethnic group. now the un court in its interim ruling on january the 26th stated that south africa's claims are plausible. the court ordered provision measures that the israeli regime must implement to prevent genocidal acts and allow humanitarian flow into the gaza strip. the israeli regime has ignored this ruling and continues with its us backed. genocidal war against palestinians. south africa has been one of the outspoken critics of the israeli regime's genocidal war against palestinians and has led some initiatives to hold this regime accountable for the sactions in gaza. so what are the main factors behind south africa's longstanding solidarity with palestine? south africa icj case against israel. hello. i'm mubarak kenya and welcome

to africa today and this week we are discussing the ongoing south africa's genocide case against the israel regime at the international court of justice icj. now the case has drawn the admiration of all freedom seekers worldwide. we have a special guest to discuss the topic today. he's none other than south african ambassador to iran. his excellency dr. francis molloy. thank you mr. ambassador for your time today. thank you very much for inviting me mubaraki. it's a pleasure to be here, as you know, many freedom seekers worldwide and people who love peace, they have welcomed south africa's case against the israeli apart regime at the icc of his genocidal war against palestinians in gaza, now first can you tell us what was the of motivation or the factors behind south africa's move uh to initiate this very historical case, well the the people of palestine. have been under occupation for

over 75 years and they have not enjoyed the rights and freedoms that we as the world community yeah have uh proclaimed on particularly after this the second world war yeah they have been on the receiving and of israeli brutality israeli violence violence of human rights and freedoms denial of rights and that situation of the nagba has been continuing since 1948, but what we saw uh of since october last year, yeah, is unprecedented in recent memory, yeah, and when we looked at the totality of what the the apartate government in in in israel has done. yeah, for us, it is very clear,

straightforward, open and shut, textbook case of genocide, because what has happened in in in gaza, yeah, flows directly from the genocidal instructions, genocidal statements that were uttered by the top state functionaries in in in israel, and those of instructions and statements were carried to the letter, yeah, by the idf, yeah, and when of we we look at everything that has happened, every single one of those violations that of have been committed, fit very neatly, yeah, the the provisions of article 2 of the genocide convention, yeah, it is clear that these uh uh actions by "israeli defense force

are aimed at killing the members of the group, which is the palestinians to cause them, immense bodily and mental harm everything has..." been une to ensure the total destruction of palestinian lives, everything has been done to prevent the births in the palestinian community, and if you look at that for us, that is textbook definition of what a genocide is, but why did we decide to go to the icj and not any other court? yeah, because first of all, the icj is the only tribu tribunal in in in the system of international law, yeah, that has a jurisdiction to deciding disputes over genocide. yeah, south africa, as a signatory to the genocide convention, like israel and

all other uh countries, we all have an obligation, binding obligation under the genocide convention to prevent the crime of genocide and to punish it, the other very important consideration that we took into account was that israel itself is a signatory to the genocide convention and by its signature it has consented to the jurisdiction of the icj over the disputes related to to the crime of genocide and we as south africa yeah uh by virtue of the fact that we also have an obligation under the genocide convention to prevent uh that that crime, we do not need to be a party to the current conflict that's going in there, so we have what lawyers called locus stanly in the icj and therefore that gives us, you know that that that opportunity or that privilege

to to present this case on behalf of the palestinians in the icj, and by the way you remember that after the rwanda genocide, the world said never again... and it's happening again unfortunately so uh in its ruling the icj issued interim orders that the israeli regime must must take measures to prevent genocide, but i think uh the regime is intent on continuing his genocidal war backed by the us and uh we have seen what is happening in rafa uh so what's your take on this, i mean it's total impunity on the... part of the israeli regime, that has been our experience with the apartate government in israel for very long time, yeah, they have acted completely uh with impunity and they have enjoyed political, diplomatic support and

cover from their some of their partners in the west, yeah, and uh, that has been quite unfortunate. now these provisional measures that the court has ordered, and we must be very clear, those provisional measures are binding on israel and they are binding on all of us, yeah, as far as our obligations to prevent genocidal concern, yeah, so the fact that the the court has ordered these measures, there is also a corresponding obligation on all of us to ensure that israel complies with with these orders, for instance, it it was it was really disappointing to see, particularly after the the the provisional measures were ordered to see israel's partners continuing to support

israel uh through provision of arms arms yeah and taking actions like withdrawing funding from andro, yeah, the consequence of which is that it it will perpetuate the genocidal decision on the part of israel to starve the people of gaza of food, medicines and other essentials, so israel is under an obligation to comply with th with these measures, and the rest of us must ensure that - israel complies with this and that we do not take actions that will continue to perpetuate the genocide that is unfolding in gaza. members the us congress of the have called for you know like a review of uh south africa us ties

uh because of your country stands at the icc and uh you know south africa uh is uh resisting and has that resolved. move on, so what do you view all these threats? have you received other, like threats to downgrade ties or you know to pressurize you, to withdraw from your support for palestine? yes, we have seen, and you are referring to the united states, we have seen uh pieces of legislation that have been proposed in this context, as you say, to review our uh bilateral relations with the us, yeah, well, we don't know exactly what that means, yeah, uh, but uh, the us's own internal legislative processes, those are processes over which we have no control. exactly uh whatsoever, but what i will say, is this that our decision to

take this route is informed by the principles, the norms, the values, the standards that underpin our engagement with the world, yeah, a multilateral level, a bilateral level, and we in our foreign policy we are very clear, we are informed by principles. such as respect for human life, yeah, multilateralism, the desire to have international relations governed by pre-agreed rules, exactly, as opposed to international relations being governed by a brute, military and economic and and political power, yeah, we believe in a system of international relations that respect the rule of international law that seeks to to resolve pressing political conflicts through

peaceful means and we wanted to in order to to to ensure that we we we can leave by these principles we want to ensure that those institutions of global governance like the united nations and those instruments of international legal systems like the human rights, legal systems, international humanitarian law, and and all this that we can use this and rely on this to address the the the problems that we face in the world, and our approach through the icj is simply our desire to work within an agretive framework or so, so if other countries think that we shouldn't be doing that, or that if we so that that route, we need to be punished, well it is something that over

which we have no control, but what we know that we are fortified in our approach, it's a principled approach that we are taking, and this is the the the correct way of approaching it, now and this brings in uh the issue of double standards you know within the international system, you like uh during these conflict you in russia conflict, we've seen the icc has issued, arrest warrants or summons against russian president vladimir putin, but uh, within three or four months here, the israeli regime has killed 30,00 palestinians, most of them women and children, and no warrant of arrest has been issued against israeli regimes, prime minister netanyahu, what's your take on these double standards? mubarak, my brother, you use the term double standards and you are absolutely right to characterize uh, how some

these international rules have been applied, and uh, that is unfortunate, because we cannot have a system of international law, that applies or uses different rules and criteria for some, and a different set of... rules for the other, that will simply breed contempt for the rules of international law, that will only bring this global system of of rules into disrepute, and it doesn't ager well for the for the global community going forward, yeah, so it is, it is regrettable that some of these institutions of global governance, and you have referred to the icc, that in the case of president and now in the case of uh prime minister netanyahu and some

the leaders of the apartite regime in in in in israel, different set of rules are being applied and that is unacceptable, we must have a system of international law that applies to all, because international law must be applied without fear favor or prejudice. yeah, equally so, and that way you can inspire confidence in this in this rules, otherwise, if we continue to operate on the basis of these double standards, yeah, will uh we will not do any good to the international system as a whole. yeah, so mr. ambassador, will take a short break uh, before we continue, viewers, uh, we'll take a short break before we continue our discussion on south africa's case against the israeli apart regime at the international court of justice. stay with us. south africa icj case

against israel. welcome back to africa today and this week we are discussing the ongoing south africa's genocide case against the israeli apathi regime other intern accusations that uh israel made when we took the case up to the icj and uh well that is in the strategy of uh uh the israeli uh government, those that it doesn't agree with, it will always label them, in our case now the we have been labeled as the legal arm of hamas, we have been labeled anti-semitic, anti-jewish and

and all this, and this is a strategy that they use to delegitim nice to pour scorn over the principle to course of action that that we have we have taken and these insults uh really and these labels are usually the refuge of someone who does not have a case and and therefore these don't don't mean anything to us indeed and i imagine that we are being labeled. the legal arm of hamas, because in the eyes of israel, hamas is a terrorist organization, so it is regarded, but we do not regard hamas as as a terrorist organization, and we find those labels and comments to be utterly preposterous. mr. ambassador, uh, south africa has also been at the forefront of rejecting attempts by the

israeli apart regime to infiltrate the african union and last attempt, two israeli regimes officials were actually ejected from the an au summit in addisababa. uh, can you now consider following this genocide in gaza? can we now consider that that case is closed and the regime will no longer uh be considered even for being an observer member the african union? the issue of israel as an observer in the au, is issue that uh our leaders still need to discuss. at the summit level, yeah, however, from south africa's point of view, we are very clear, we will oppose any uh decision, any application that seeks to admit israel as an observer in the au, yeah, and uh, the events since october last year, the genocide that israel has carried out against the people of palestine,

yeah, is in fact another solid reason why israel's... attempts to be an observer in the au or to be rejected, rejected. yeah, now we have seen many countries have expressed support to south africa's case against the israeli regime at the icj. now how will this uh impact on south africa in terms of global geopolitics? well, yes, we have, many countries have expressed the support. uh for south africa uh going forward, which which we appreciate of course and which i think the the people of of palestine uh appreciate uh as to how this will uh impact on on on geopolitics, i guess this the jury is still out there, folding, exactly, but for us uh we

have this case to prosecute uh we we..." "and we think we have made very strong case going forward, yeah, we have now passed the provisional measures, yeah, and we are glad that at the end of the submissions that we made on the 11th of january, when other countries had labeled our our cause of action as meritless, as baseless, as without any basis whatsoever, the the icj agreed with us, by enlarge." " yeah, and uh, we we ought now to be moving into the merit stage, and for us that is what we are focusing on. what the implications and the broader geopolitics of that would be? leave that to others to deal with, and now and even the fact that many state and non state actors are supporting south africa's bid, do you think there will

be changes in in the international you know system of justice that uh there will be more focus, people will have some hope on these international court of justice and even the icc, are we going to see evolution towards more trust to these institutions? from where i'm... sitting mubarak my brother, i think that this case has awakened the conscience of ordinary people on main street, and these protests that we have seen across the world from cape town to london, from washington dc to ramala to all over, yeah, the ordinary people on the ground through their various formations of civil society have take this issue upon upon their shoulders and they are putting pressure on their governments yeah to do something about the genocide in gaza, the

ciesfire now, the calls for the cice fire, the the calls for humanitarian aid and the calls for holding uh the apartted government in israel accountable, all this is important and it it's a positive development because ordinary people on mainstreet now realize that these commitments to international law, international principles ought to be implemented, and think if anything that will come out of this, it is that a positive reawakening of the people on the ground. now, mr. ambassador, bricks recently expanded to include more countries, including iran, and it's it's emerging as you know major force globally, what do you think, what role can bricks play in result? doing global conflicts like the current genocidal war against palestinians in gaza? well, bricks is a is a grouping of uh mostly developing countries

from the south, and we have a common objectives of pulling together our resources to develop our our countries, our economies, to develop our our people, and to foster greater cooperation and collaboration, um... amongst ourselves and therefore uh our cooperation is in many fields of economy, of politics, of culture, science and technology and so on so forth, and we also seek to you adopt a common approaches at resolving or addressing uh questions such as uh the conflict in gaza, so bricks becomes one of the important formations. the countries of the south to deal with all these challenges that we face today. mr. ambassador, south africa has been at the forefront you know of resolving the uh palestinian issue, and there

been so many proposals, there have been talks and negotiations that have failed because the israeli apart regime has failed you implement its commitments and there's now uh this proposal, for example iran is proposing that uh one of the ways of actually... one of the main ways of resolving the palestinian conflict uh is through having a referendum that will involve all original inhabitants of palestine, with the jews, christians or muslims and even a referendum that will involve uh all palestinian refugees who are scattered across the globe uh do you think this is a good solution what's your take on this uh you know uh proposal to use a referendum to solve the palestinian issue, yes, so many proposals have been made about how to resolve the the question of of of palestine, yeah, and uh, we respect the

sovereign uh position that the islamic republic of iran has taken, yeah, and uh, you know, we we we cannot content, we cannot argue with that, it's a sovereign position, the... islamic republic, but the important thing is that that proposal is also aimed at finding a durable, dustin peace for the people of of of palestine, and we we acknowledge and we appreciate and we endorse the principal support that iran has provided to to the people of palestine, and it is part and puzzle of that, global effort to find accommodation and and solution to this. mr. ambassador, our last question, the south african parliament took a very decisive

decision. for you recalling or the cutting of ties with the israeli regime and the ejection the israeli ambassador from south africa and we've seen south africans have also come out massively you know to express support to palestinians uh can you tell us more about these uh the reason why south africans are also the people of south africa have come out to express their support uh to palestinians yeah first of all yes. as south africa we support fully the struggle of the people of palestine and uh the people of south africa on main street uh supported that. however, i will say that, yes, it is true, we have recalled our ambassador uh from tel aviv since i think 2018. yeah, we have uh recalled all our diplomatic stuff in tel aviv and we

have also closed. our embassy uh there and it's not that we have cut the diplomatic t such ties as such, but we have just closed our embassy in tel aviv and it was very clear decision on our parliament which was also followed by the executive decision yeah that one of the reasons why we decided to close that was uh to ensure that we could force in one way or another the issue of uh of of the scis fire but if i may just to say pretty briefly that yeah, you know, south africa, we are the beneficiary of one of the most coordinated, solid international solidarity movement since the second world war, the anti-aparted movement, and we think today there is a need to revive that spirit of that global anti-apartate movement in solidarity

with the people of palestine. yeah, and we need to be looking at what measures we can take to put pressure on on on israel, and if it means severing diplomatic tires, imposing arms embargo, boycots, isolation of the apart regime there, these are all peaceful measures that we can take, they have worked in the case of south africa and they can work in the case of of israel. thank you very much, ambassador francis moloy for your time today at africa today. thank you mubarak, it was a pleasure indeed to be here and thank you for inviting me, well viewers and that brings us to the end of this week's edition of africa today, it's always great having you watch the show, you can watch this episode on all our previous shows on our website price tv.ir. thanks lot for watching and goodbye for now.

"the headlines israely forces kill and injure nearly 90 civilians and yet another attack on eight seekers in northern gaza as the regime's genocidal war enters its 160th day. aid boat set sail from cyprus is gradually heading toward the gaza strip amid growing calls for further humanitarian assistance to the besieg territory. and the leader of hesla says israel is paying a high price in its war with the resistance in gaza and lebanon, but it's trying..." to hide its losses.