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Understanding 9/11tv Africa Today SA ICJ Case against Israel PRESSTV March 16, 2024 7:00pm-7:31pm IRST
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over the israeli apart regime's genocidal war against palestinians in the besaged gaza strip. south africa stated that the tv regime has failed to uphold its commitments under the 1948 genocide convention. south africa fil the losit against the israeli regime at the end of december, noting that israel's of actions in gaza that sited last october are genocidal in character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part of the palestinian national racial. and ethnic group, now the un court in its interim ruling on january the 26th, stated that south africa's claims are plausible, the court ordered provision measures that the israeli regime must implement to prevent genocidal acts and allow humanitarian flow into the gaza strip. the israeli regime has ignored this ruling and continues with its us backed genocidal war against palestinians. south africa has been one of the outspoken critics of the israeli regimes. genocidal war against palestinians
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and has led some initiatives to hold this regime accountable for this actions in gaza. so what are the main factors behind south africa's longstanding solidarity with palestine? south africa icj case against israel. hello, i'm mubrah kenya and welcome to africa today. and this week we are discussing the ongoing south africa's. genicide case against the israeli regime at the international court of justice icj. now the case has drawn the admiration of all freedom seekers worldwide. we have a special guest to discuss the topic today. he's none other than south african ambassador to iran, his excellency dr. francis molloy. thank you, mr. ambassador for your time today. thank you very much for inviting me, mubarak. it's a pleasure to be here. as we know, many freedom of seekers worldwide and people who love peace, the... have welcomed uh south africa's case
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against the israeli aparty regime uh the icc of east genocidal against palestinians in gaza. now uh first can you tell us what was the motivation or the factors behind south africa's move uh to initiate this very historical case? well the the people of palestine have been under occupation for over 75. years and they have not enjoyed the rights and freedoms that we as the world community have uh proclaimed on particularly after this the second world war, they have been on the receiving end of israeli brutality, israeli violence, violation of human rights and freedoms denial of rights and situation of the nagba has been
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continuing since 1948, yeah, but what we saw uh, since october last year, yeah, is unprecedented in recent memory, yeah, and when we looked at the totality of what uh, the the apartate government in in in israel has done, yeah, for us, it is very clear, straightforward. open and shut textbook case of genocide, because what has happened in in in gaza, yeah, flows directly from the genocidal instructions, genocidal statements that were uttered by the top state functionaries in in in israel, and those instructions and statements were carried to the letter, yeah, by the idf "and when we we
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we look at everything that has happened, every single one of those violations that have been committed feet very neatly, yeah the..." the the provisions of article 2 of the genocide convention, yeah, it is clear that these actions by the israeli defense force are aimed at killing the members of the group, which is the palestinians to cause them immense bodily and mental harm everything has been done to ensure the total destruction of palestinian. everything has been done to prevent the births in the palestinian community and if you look at that for us that is textbook definition of what a genocide is, but why did we decide to go to the icj and not any other court? yeah,
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because first of all uh the icj is the only tribunal in in in the system of international law, yeah that has - jurisdiction to decide the disputes over uh genocide. yeah, south africa, as a signatory to the genocide convention like israel and all other uh countries, we all have an obligation, binding obligation under the genocide convention to prevent the crime of genocide and to punish it. the other very important consideration that we took into account was that israel itself is a sign to the genocide convention and by its it signature, it has consented to the jurisdiction of the icj over the disputes related to to the crime of genocide, and we as south africa, yeah, uh, by virtue of the
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fact that we also have an obligation under the genocide convention to prevent that that crime, we do not need to be a party to the current conflict in that. going in there so we have what lawyers call locus stunly in the icj and therefore that gives us you know that that that opportunity or that privilege to to present this case on behalf of the palestinas in the icj and by the way you remember that uh after the rwanda genocide the world said never again and it's happening again unfortunately so in its ruling the icj issued uh interim orders that the israeli regime must take measures to prevent genocide, but i think uh the regime um is intent on continuing his genocidal war backed by the us and uh you know we have seen what is
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happening in rafa uh so what's your take on this, i mean it's total impunity on the part the israeli regime, that has been our experience with the apartate uh uh government in israel for very long time, yeah, uh, they have acted completely uh, with impunity, and they have enjoyed political, diplomatic support and cover from their uh, some of their partners in the west, yeah, and uh, that has been quite unfortunate, now these provisional measures that the court has ordered, and we must be very clear, "those provisional measures are binding on israel and they are binding on all uh of us, yeah, as far as our obligations to prevent the genocide are concern, yeah, so the fact that
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the the court has ordered these measures, there is also a corresponding obligation on all of us to ensure that israel complies with with these orders, for instance. it it was it was really disappointing to see, particularly after the the the provisional measures were ordered to see israel's partners continuing to support israel uh through provision of arms arms yeah and taking actions like withdrawing funding from andro yeah the consequence of which is that it it will perpetuate the genocidal decision on the part of israel to starve the people of gaza of food, medicines and other essentials, so israel is under an obligation to comply with
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th with these measures, and the rest of us must ensure that israel complies with this and that we do not take actions that will continue to perpetuated the genocide uh that is unfolding in gaza. members of the us congress of the have called for, like a review of uh south africa us ties. uh because of your country stands at the icc and uh you know south africa uh is uh resisting and has that resolved to move on, so what do you view all these threats? have you received a threats to downgrade ties or you know uh to pressurize you to withdraw from your support for palestine? yes we have seen, and you are referring to the united states, we have seen... uh pieces of legislation that have been proposed in this context as you say to
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review our uh bilateral relations with the us, well we we don't know exactly what that means, yeah uh, but uh the us's own internal legislative processes, those are processes over which we have no control, exactly whatsoever, but what i will say mubarak is this that our decision to take this root is informed by the principles, the norms, the values, the standards that underpin our engagement with the world, yeah, a multilateral level, a bilateral level, and we in our foreign policy we are very clear, we are informed by principles such as respect for human life, yeah, multilateralism, the desire to have international relations governed by pre-agreed rules exactly as
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opposed to international relations being governed by a brute military and economic and and political power. we believe in a system of international relations that respects the rule of international law that seeks to to resolve pressing politic. conflicts through peaceful means and we wanted to in order to to to ensure that we we we can leave by these principles, we want to ensure that those institutions of global governance like the united nations and those instruments of international legal systems like the human rights, legal systems, international humanitarian law uh and and all this that we can use this and rely on this to address the
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the the the problems that we face in the world, and our approach through the icj is simply our desire to work within an aggrative framework or so, so if other countries think that we shouldn't be doing that, or that if we pursue that that route, we need to be punished, well it is something that over which we have no control. all but what we know that we are fortified in our approach, it's a principal approach that we are taking and this is the the the correct way of approaching it. now and this brings in uh the issue of double standards you know within the international uh system like uh during these conflict ukraine russia conflict we've seen the icc has issued you know arrest warrants or somemons against russian. president vladimir putin, but uh, within three or four
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months here, the israeli regime has killed 30,00 palestinians, most of them women and children, and no warrant of arrest has been issued against israeli regimes, prime minister netanyahu. what's your take on these double standards? my brother, you use the term double standards and you are absolutely right to characterize. uh, how some of these international rules have been applied, and uh, that is unfortunate, because we cannot have a system of international law, that applies or uses different rules and criteria for some, and a different set of rules for the other, that will simply breed contempt for the rules of international law. that will only bring this global system of of rules into disrepute and it doesn't augur well for
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the for the global community going forward, so it is it is regrettable that some of these institutions of global governance, and you have referred to the icc, that in the case of president putin and now in the case of uh uh prime minister netanyahu and some of the leaders... the apartite regime in in in in israel, different set of rules are being applied, and that is unacceptable, we must have a system. of international law that applies to all, because uh international law must be applied without fear, favor or prejudice, equally so, and that way you can inspire confidence in this uh, in these rules, otherwise, if we continue to operate on the basis of these double standards, yeah,
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we will uh, we will not do any good to the international system as a whole, yeah, so mr. ambassador, we'll take a short break uh, before we continue, viewers, uh, we'll take a short break before we continue our discussion on south africa's case against the israeli apart regime at the international court of justice. stay with us. south africa icj case against israel. welcome back to africa today and this week we are discussing the ongoing south africa's genacide case against the israeli apart regime at the international court of justice. welcome back mr. ambassador. now uh israeli
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regime officials have accused south africa of working closely with a palestinian islamic resistance. movement hamas and even say that south africa is the legal arm of uh hamas, what's your take on these uh claims? we had that, and that was one of the first accusations that israel made when we took the case up to the icj and uh well that is in the strategy of uh uh the israeli uh government, those that it doesn't agree with, it will always... all them, in our case now the are we have been labeled as the legal arm of hammas, we have been labeled antisemitic, anti jewish and and all this, and this is a strategy that they use to delegitimize to pour scorn over the principal to course of action that that we have we have taken, and
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these insults uh really and these labels are usually... the refuge of someone who does not have a case yeah and and therefore these don't - don't mean anything to us indeed and i imagine that we are being labeled the legal arm of hamas because in the eyes of israel hamas is a terrorist organization so it is regarded but we do not regard hamas as as a terrorist organization and we find those - labels and comments to be utterly preposterous. mr. ambassador, uh, south africa has also been at the forefront of rejecting attempts by the israeli apart regime to infiltrate the african union, and the last attempt two israeli regimes officials were actually ejected from the an au summit in addis abababa. can you now
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consider following this genocide in gaza? can we now consider that that case is closed and the regime with no longer uh be considered even for being an observer member of the african union, the issue of israel as an observer in the au, is issue that our leaders still need to discuss at the summit level, yeah, however, from south africa's point of view, we are very clear, we will oppose any decision, any application that seeks to admit israel as an... observer in the au, yeah, and uh, the events since october last year, the genocide that israel has carried out against the people of palestine, yeah, is in fact another solid reason why israel's attempts to be an observer in the au or to be rejected, rejected, yeah, now we have seen many
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countries have express support to south africa's case against the israeli regime at the icj. now how will this uh impact on south africa in terms of global geopolitics? well yes, we have many countries have expressed the support uh for south africa going forward, which which we appreciate of course and which i think the the people of of palestine uh appreciate uh as to how this will... uh impact on on on geopolitics, guess this that the jury is still out there, unfolding exactly uh, but for us uh we have this case to... prosecute uh, we we and we think we have made very strong case going forward, yeah, we have now passed the provisional measures, yeah, and we are glad
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that at the end of the submissions that we made on the 11th of january, when other countries had labeled our our cause of action as meritless, as baseless as without any basis whatsoever, they the icj are with us by and large and uh we we ought now to be moving into the merit stage and for us that is what we are focusing on what the implications and the broader geopolitics of that would be, we leave that to others to deal with, and now and even the fact that many state and non state actors are supporting south africa's bid, do you think there will be changes in in the international? system of justice that uh there will be more focused, people will have some hope on these international court of justice and even the icc, are we going to see evolution towards more trust to these
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institutions? from where i'm sitting, mubarak, my brother, i think that this case has awakened the conscience of ordinary people on main street, and these protests that we have seen across the... to all over yeah, the ordinary people on the ground through their various formations of civil society have taken this issue upon upon their shoulders and they are putting pressure on their governments yeah to do something about the genocide in gaza the seesfire now the calls for the seas fire the the calls for humanitarian aid and the calls for holding uh the apartted government in israel accountable. yeah, all this is important and
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it's it's a positive development, because ordinary people on main street now realize that uh these commitments to international law, international principles ought to be implemented, and i think if anything that will come out of this, it is that a positive reawakening of the people on the ground. now mr. ambassador uh bricks recently expanded to include more countries including iran uh and it's it's emerging as uh you know major force globally uh what do you think uh what role can bricks play in resolving global conflicts like uh the current genocidal war against palestinians in gaza? well bricks is a is a grouping of uh mostly developing countries from the south yeah uh and have a common objectives of pulling together our resources to develop our our countries, our economies, to develop our people and to foster greater
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cooperation and collaboration amongst ourselves and therefore uh our cooperation is in many fields of economy, of politics of culture, science and technology and so on so forth, and we also seek to... adopt common approaches yeah at resolving or addressing uh questions such as the conflict in gaza, so bricks becomes one of the important formations of the countries of the south to deal with all these challenges that we face today. mr. ambassador, south africa has been at the forefront, of resolving the uh palestinian issue, and there've been so many proposals, they've been talks. and negotiations that have failed because the israeli apart regime has failed in order implement its commitments uh and uh there's
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now uh this proposal for example iran is proposing that uh one of the ways of actually one of the main ways of resolving the palestinian conflict uh is through having a referendum that will involve all original inhabitants of palestine with the jews, christians or muslims and even a referendum that will involve all palestinian refugees who has cut across the globe. do you think this is a good solution? what's your take on this uh uh you proposal to use a referendum to resolve the palestinian issue? yes, so many proposals have been made about how to resolve the the question of of palestine, yeah, and uh, we respect the... sovereign position that the islamic republic of iran has taken, yeah, and uh, you know, we we, we cannot content, we cannot argue. that it's a
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sovereign position of the islamic republic uh, but the important thing is that - that proposal is also aimed at finding a durable toustin peace for the people of of of palestine and we we acknowledge and we appreciate and uh uh we endorse the principal support that iran has provided to to the people of palestine. and it is part and parcel of that global effort to find accommodation and and solution to this. mr. ambassador, our last question, the south african parliament took a very decisive decision uh for you recalling or the cutting of ties with the israeli regime and the ejection of the israeli ambassador from south africa. and we've seen south africans have also come out massively to express support.
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to palestinians uh, can you tell us more about these, the reason why south africans are also the people of south africa have come out, to express their support uh to palestinians? yeah, first of all, yes, as south africa, we support fully the struggle the people of palestine, and the people of south africa on mainstreet, supported that, however, i will say that, yes, it is true, we have... called our ambassador uh from tel aviv since i think 2018, yeah, we have uh recalled all our diplomatic stuff in tel aviv and we have also closed our embassy uh there, and it's not that we have cut the diplomatic t as such ties as such, but we have just close our embassy in tel aviv and it was very clear decision, parliament, which was also
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followed by the executive decision, yeah, that one of the reasons why we decided to close that was to ensure that we could force in one or another the issue of uh of of the cease fire, but if i may just say pretty briefly that you know south africa, we are the beneficiary of one of the most coordinated, solid international solidarity movements. since the second world war, the anti-aparted movement, and we think today there is a need to revive that spirit of that global anti-apartait movement in solidarity with the people of palestine, and we need to be looking at what measures we can take to put pressure on on on israel, and if it means severing diplomatic tires, imposing arms embargo, boycots, isolation of... apartate uh
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regime there, these are all peaceful measures that we can take, they have worked in the case of south africa and they can work in the case of of israel. thank you very much uh ambassador francis uh moloy for your time today at africa today. thank you mubarak. it was a pleasure indeed to be here and thank you for inviting me. well viewers and that brings us to the end of these weeks edition of africa today. it's always great having you watch the show. you can watch this episode and all our previous shows and website prestv.ir. thanks lot for watching and goodbye for now.
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now entering its fourth day, we're looking at. the headlines, as the us-israeli genocidal war on gaza continues for the 162nd day, new air strikes on a refugee camp kills at least 36 palestinians. the onside on gaza is not preventing israel from committing more atrocities in the occupied west bank has the regime forces.
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