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Understanding 9/11tv Africa Today SA ICJ Case against Israel PRESSTV March 29, 2024 8:00am-8:31am IRST
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in late 2023 south africa files. case at the international court of justice icj over the israeli apath regime's genocidal war against palestinians in the beseged gaza strip. south africa stated that the tv regime has failed to uphold its commitments under the 1948 genocide convention. south africa filed the lossit against the israeli regime at the end of december, noting that israel's actions in of gaza that started last october are genocidal in character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part of the palesty. national, racial and
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ethnic group. now the un court in its interim ruling on january the 26th, stated that south africa's claims are plausible. the court ordered provision measures that the israeli regime must implement to prevent genocidal acts and allow humanitarian flow into the gaza strip. the israeli regime has ignored this ruling and continues with its us backed genocidal war against palestinians. south africa has been one of the outspoken critics. the israeli regime's genocidal war against palestinians and has led some initiatives to hold this regime accountable for this sactions in gaza. so what are the main factors behind south africa's longstanding solidarity with palestine? south africa icj case against israel. hello, i'm mubarak kenya and welcome to africa today. and this week we are discussing the ongoing. south africa's
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genocide case against the israeli regime at the international court of justice, icj. now the case has drawn the admiration of all freedom seekers worldwide. we have a special guest to discuss the topic today. he's none other than south african ambassador to iran, his excellency dr. francis moloy. thank you, mr. ambassador for your time today. thank you very much for inviting me mubarak. it's a pleasure to be here. as you know, many freedom seekers worldwide and people who... love peace, they have welcomed uh south africa's case against the israeli aparties regime at the icc of his genocidal war against palestinians in gaza. now uh, first can you tell us what was the motivation or the factors behind south africa's move uh to initiate this very historical case? well, the the people of palestine have been under occupation for over. 75 years and they have
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not enjoyed the rights and freedoms that we as the world community have uh proclaimed on particularly after this the second world war, they have been on the receiving end of israeli brutality, israeli violence, violation of uh human rights and freedoms denial of rights. "and that situation of the nagba has been continuing since 1948, yeah, but what we saw uh, since october last year, yeah, is unprecedented in recent memory, yeah, and when we looked at the totality of what uh, the the apartate government in in in israel has done, yeah, for us, it is very clear." straight forward, open and shut,
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textbook case of genocide, because what has happened in in in gaza, yeah, flows directly from the genocidal instructions, genocidal statements that were uttered by the top state functionaries in in in israel, and those instructions and statements were carried to the letter, yeah by the... idf, yeah, and when we we we look at everything that has happened, every single one of those violations that have been committed, fit very neatly, yeah, the the provisions of article 2 of the genocide convention, yeah, it is clear that these actions by the israeli defense force are aimed at killing the members of the group, which is the palestine. to cause them
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immense bodily and mental harm everything has been uh you know done to ensure the total destruction of... palestinin lives, everything has been done to prevent the births in the palestinian community, and if you look at that for us, yeah, that is textbook definition of what the genocide is, but why did we decide to go to the icj and not any other court, yeah, because first of all, uh, the icj is the only tribunal in in in the system of international law, yeah, that... has a jurisdiction to decide the disputes over uh genocide, yeah, south africa, as a signatory to the genocide convention, like israel and all other uh countries, we all have an obligation, binding obligation under the genocide convention to
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prevent the crime of genocide and to punish it, the other very important consideration that we took into account was that israel itself is a signatory to the genocide convention and by it signature it has consented to the jurisdiction of the icj over the disputes related to to the crime of genocide and we as south africa yeah uh by virtue of the fact that we also have an obligation under the genocide convention to prevent that that crime we do not need to be a party to the... current conflict that's going in there, so we have what lawyers called locus stuny in the icj and therefore that gives us, you know that that that opportunity or that privilege to to present this case on behalf of the palestinians in
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the icj, and by the way you remember that after the rwanda genocide, the world said never again and it's happening again, unfortunately, so in its ruling... the icj issued interim orders that the israeli regime must you take measures to prevent genocide, but i think uh the regime is intent on continuing his genocidal war backed by the us and uh you have seen what is happening raffa uh so what's your take on this? i mean it's total impunity on the part of the israeli regime, that has been our experience with the... government in israel for very long time, yeah, they have acted completely uh with impunity and they have enjoyed political, diplomatic support and cover from their some of their partners in the west,
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yeah, and uh, that has been quite unfortunate, now these provisional measures that the court has ordered and must be very clear, those provisional measures are binding on israel and their binding on all uh of us, yeah, as far as our obligations to prevent genocidal, so the fact that the the court has ordered these measures, there is also a corresponding obligation on all of us to ensure that israel complies with with these - for instance, it it was, it was really disappointing to see, particularly after the the the provisional measures were ordered to see israel's partners continuing to support israel through provision of arms, arms, yeah,
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and taking actions like withdrawing funding from andrew, yeah, the consequence of which is that, "it it it will perpetuate the genocidal decision on the part of israel to starve the people of gaza of food, medicines and other essentials, so israel is under an obligation to comply with th with these measures, and the rest of us must ensure that israel complies with these and that we do not take actions that..." will continue to perpetuate the genocide uh that is unfolding in gaza. members of the us congress of the have called for you know like a review of uh south africa us ties uh because of your country's turns at the icc and uh you know
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south africa uh is uh resisting and uh has that resolved to move on. so what do you view all these threats have you received a like ' to downgrade ties or to pressurize you, to withdraw from your support for palestine. yes, we have seen, and you are referring to the united states. "we have seen uh pieces of legislation that have been proposed in this context as you say to review our uh bilateral relations with the us, well we we don't know exactly what that means, yeah uh, but uh the us's own internal legislative processes, those are processes over which we have no control exactly whatsoever, but what i will say mubarak is this that - "our decision to take this root is informed by the principles,
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the norms, the values, the standards that underpin our engagement with the world, yeah, a multilateral level, a bilateral level, and we in our foreign policy we are very clear, we are informed by principles such as respect for human life, yeah, multilateralism, the..." desire to have international relations governed by pre-agreed rules exactly as opposed to international relations being governed by a brute military and economic and and political uh power.ah we believe in a system of international relations that respects the rule of international law that seeks to to resolve. addressing political conflicts through peaceful means and we wanted to, in order to
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to ensure that we we we can leave by these principles, we want to ensure that those institutions of global governance like the united nations, and those instruments of international legal systems like the human rights, legal systems, international humanitarian law... and and all this that we can use this and rely on this to address the the the the problems that we face in the world, and our approach through the icj is simply our desire to work within an agreed framework or so, so if other countries think that we shouldn't be doing that or that if we pursue that that route we need to be punished, well it is something that - which we have no control, but what we know that we are fortified in our approach, it's a
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principal approach that we are taking and uh this is the the the correct way of approaching it. now and this brings in uh the issue of double standards you know within the international uh system, you like uh during these conflict ukraine russia conflict, we've seen the icc has issued you know arrest warrants or summons. against russian president vladimir putin, but uh, within three or four months here, the israeli regime has killed 30,00 palestinians, most of them women and children, and no warrant of arrest has been issued against israeli regime's prime minister netanyahu. what's your take on these double standards? mubarak, my brother, you use the term double standards and you are absolutely right to character. rise uh how some of these international rules have been
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applied and that is unfortunate because we cannot have a system of international law yeah that applies or uses different rules and criteria for some and a different set of rules for the other yeah that will simply breed contempt for the rules of international law that will only bring this global system of of rules into disrepute and it doesn't orger well for the for the global community going forward yeah so it is it is regrettable that some of these institutions of global governance and you have referted to the icc that in the case of president putin and now in the case of uh prime minister netanyahu and some of... the leaders of the apartite regime in in in in israel, different set of
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rules are being applied, and that is unacceptable, we must have a system of international law that applies to all, because international law must be applied without fear favor or prejudice, equally so, and that way you can inspire confidence in this uh, in this... otherwise, if we continue to operate on the basis of these double standards, yeah, we will, we will not do any good to the international systems. yeah, so mr. ambassador, we'll take a short break uh, before we continue, viewers, uh, we'll take a short break before we continue our discussion on south africa's case against the israeli apart regime at the international court of justice. stay with us. south africa icj case
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against israel. welcome back to africa today and this week we are discussing the ongoing south africa's general side case against the israeli aparthy regime at the international court of justice. welcome back mr. ambassador. now uh israeli regime officials have accused south africa of working closely with the palest. an islamic resistance movement hamas and even say that south africa is the legal arm of uh hamas. what's your take on this claims? we had that and that was one of the first accusations that israel made when we took the case up to the icj and uh well that is in the strategy of uh uh the israeli government uh those that
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it doesn't agree with it will. always label them, in our case now the we have been labeled as the legal arm of hamas, yeah, we have been labeled anti-semitic, anti-jewish and and all this, and this is a strategy that they use to deal legegitimize, to pour scorn over the principal to cause of action that that we have we have taken, and these insults uh really and these labels are usually the refuge of someone who does not have a case and and therefore these don't don't mean anything to us indeed and i imagine that we are being labeled the legal arm of hamas because in the eyes of israel hamas is a terrorist organization so it is regarded but
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we do not regard hamas as as a terrorist organization and to those labels and comments to be utterly preposterous. mr. ambassador, uh, south africa has also been at the forefront of rejecting attempts by the israeli apathi regime to infiltrate the african union, and uh, the last attempt to israeli regimes officials were actually ejected from the an au summit in addisababa. can we now consider following this genocide in gaza, can we now consider that that case is closed and "the regime will no longer uh be considered even for being an observer member of the african union, the issue of israel as an observer in the au, yeah, is issue that uh our leaders still need to discuss at the summit level, yeah, however, from south africa's point of view, we are very clear, we will oppose any uh decision,
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any application that seeks to - admit." israel as an observer in the au, yeah, and uh, the events since october last year, the genocide that israel has carried out against the people of palestine, yeah, is in fact another solid reason why israel's attempts to be an observer in the au or to be rejected, rejected, yeah, now we have seen many countries have expressed support to south africa's case against the israeli regime. the icj now how will this uh impact uh on south africa in terms of global geopolitics? well yes we have uh many countries have expressed the support uh for south africa uh going forward which which we appreciate of course
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and which i think that the people of of palestine uh appreciate uh as to how how this will uh impact on on on geopolitics, guess this, the jury is still out there, folding, exactly, but for us uh, we have this case to prosecute, we we and we think we have made very strong case going forward, yeah, we have now passed the provisional measures, yeah, and we are glad that at the end of the submissions that we made on the 11th. of january, when other countries had labeled our our cause of action as meritless, as baseless as without any basis whatsoever, they... "the icj agreed with us, by and large, and uh, we we ought now to be moving into the merits stage, and for us that is what we are
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focusing on, what are the implications and the broader geopolitics of that would be, we leave that to others to deal with, and now and even the fact that many state and non state actors are supporting south africa's bid, uh, do you think there will be changes in in? the international system of justice that uh there will be more focused, people will have some hope on these international court of justice and even the icc, are we going to see evolution towards more trust to these institutions? from where i'm sitting, mubarak my brother, i think that this case has awakened the conscience of ordinary people on main street, and these protests that we have... seen across the world from cape town to london, from washington dc to ramala to all over, yeah, the ordinary people
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on the ground through their various formations of civil society have taken this issue upon upon their shoulders and they are putting pressure on their governments, yeah to do something about the genocide in gaza, the cease fire now, the calls for the cease fire. the the calls for humanitarian aid and the calls for holding uh the apartted government in accountable yeah all this is important and it it's a positive development because ordinary people on main street now realize that uh these commitments to international law, international principles ought to be implemented and i think if anything that will come out of this it is that a positive reawakening of the... people on the ground. now mr. ambassador, bricks recently expanded to include more countries, including iran, uh, and it's it's emerging as uh, you know, major force globally. uh, what
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do you think uh, what role can bricks play in resolving global conflicts like - the current genocidal war against palestinians in gaza? well, bricks is a is a grouping of uh, mostly developing countries from the south, yeah. uh and we have a common objectives of pulling together our resources to develop our our countries, our economies, to develop our our people and to foster greater cooperation and collaboration amongst ourselves and therefore uh our cooperation is in many fields of economy, of politics, of culture, science and technology and so on so forth, and we all also seek to you adopt common approaches at resolving or addressing uh questions such as uh the conflict in gaza, so bricks becomes
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one of the important formations of the countries of the south to deal with all these challenges that we face today. mr. ambassador, south africa has been at the forefront of resolving the uh palestinian issue and there been so many. propos, there been talks and negotiations that have failed because the israeli apart regime has failed in order implement its commitments and there is now this proposal, for example iran is proposing that uh one of the ways of actually one of the main ways of resolving the palestinian conflict is through having a referendum that will involve all original inhabitants of palestine, with the jews, christians or muslims. and even a referendum that will involve uh all palestinian refugees who are scted across the globe, do you think
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this is a good solution? what's your take on this uh you know uh proposal to use a referendum to resolve the palestinian issue? yes, so many proposals have been made about how to resolve the the question of of palestine, yeah, and we res the sovereign position that the islamic republic of iran has taken, yeah, and you know, we we we cannot content, we cannot argue that it's a sovereign position of the islamic republic, but the important thing is that that proposal is also aimed at finding a durable toustin peace for the people of of of. and we we acknowledge and we appreciate and we endorse the principal support that iran has provided
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to to the people. of palestine and it is part and parcel of that global effort to find accommodation and and solution to this. mr. ambassador, our last question, the uh south african parliament took a very decisive decision uh for you recalling or the cutting of ties with the israeli regime and the ejection of the israeli ambassador uh from south africa. and we've seen south africans have also come out massively to... to express support to palestinians. uh, can you tell us more about these, the reason why south africans are also the people of south africa have come out, to express their support uh to palestinians? yeah, first of all, yes, as south africa, we support fully the struggle the people of palestine, and uh, the people of south africa on mainstreet supported that. however, i will say that, yes, it is true,
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"we have recalled our ambassador uh from tel aviv since i think 2018, yeah, we have uh recalled all our diplomatic stuff in tel aviv, and we have also closed our embassy uh there, and it's not that we have cut the diplomatic t such ties as such, but we have just closed our embassy in tel aviv and it was very clear decision." yeah, on our parliament, which was also followed by the executive decision, yeah, that one of the reasons why we decided to close that was to ensure that we could force in one way or another the issue of uh of of the scisifire, but if i may just say pretty briefly that, you know, south africa, we are the beneficiary of one of the most coordinated, solid international solidarity. yeah, and we
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think today there is a need to revive that spirit of that global anti-aparted movement in solidarity with the people of palestine, and we need to be looking at what measures we can take to put pressure on on on israel, and if it means severing diplomatic tires, imposing arms embargo, boycots, yeah. isolation of the aparted uh regime there, these are all peaceful measures that we can take, they have worked in the case of south africa and they can work in the case of of israel. thank you very much, ambassador francis moloy for your time today at africa today. thank you, mubarak, it was a pleasure indeed to be here and thank you for inviting me. well, viewers, and that brings us to the end of this week's edition of africa today. it's always great having you watch the show.
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you can watch this episode. all our previous shows on our website pricetv.iir. thanks lot for watching and goodbye for now. i'm back, not just here in the scene of many crimes, but on your screen with a brand new weekly show called have it out with galloway. there'll be panel, there'll be experts, they'll be me, but there will also be you, joining me as a studio audience online, have a goal, why don't you if you think you're hard enough?
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death from israel genocide in gaza exceeds 32,500 as a regimes indiscriminate strikes claim more palestinin lives. more than 140 christian leaders have called for a permanent ceasefire in gaza urging the us and its allies to stop supplying arms to israel. and leader of yemen's ancerla describes israel's crimes in gaza.
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