terrible and and and i said to him um, i remember asking him, did you break finger? i wouldn't, i just would not acknowledge uh, what i was, what i was seeing, and uh, that lasts for for maybe forever, for a long time, that you your mind tell you not, that this is not, you know, you're in denial basically, and um, so i, i, i... crawled as far as the ditch and i pulled myself up, all i wanted to do was to to get some relief because i couldn't breathe properly, and i pulled myself up onto a little branch sort of a was hanging towards the field, and i leaned over that to see if i could get if i could catch my breath, but uh, and then i'd stand up and i'd fall down again, and remember that was almost like light show, there was a the the the ditch was on fire and... every time you

the the fire would crackle or whatever you would light up something and and uh while i was crawling around there was uh there was body parts on the one of these unfortunate men his arm was was in the field and it was um like it's it's it's surreal it's it's like a bad night americas and you're telling yourself you you're just ignoring that and uh eventually then um heard walkie talkies, this was after about an hour, i spent about an hour crawling around the field and telling the lads that you know uh uh, i said tony's fine, and i said to fran, you know, brian is is - seems to be up for the count, but does it be back to with help, and um, heard these walkie talkies and was convinced that the men had come back. to to finish off this thing,

heard somebody jump down into the field and i said to myself, i'm going to stand up, i'm not going to die line down, so i stood up and faced what i could hear coming towards me and show a light on my face and i remember man saying we're the police son and uh i went to walk towards him and the the ground was sort of was only. and i actually tripped and he caught me, there was another was two policeman, they caught me, they eventually got me into into the hospital and um, i remember being the were running down this car door with me and all the lights flying past me and they put me up on on on on an operating table and and they were questioning me, there was men there questioning me, and i don't whether there were doctors or police or whatever it was, but there were - one of them said "you know, um, what happened to you? i

said, uh, i fell through a ditch, that's the only explanation i gave him. i fell through a ditch, and he said, well, you've got some scratches and marks, he said, what are they? i said, well, the ditch, and uh, there was a this nurse came over and she had a scissors, and she, i had a blue jumper on me and a sort of a black jeans and uh, and she said, um, i'm going to cut this now, i said, no, you're not, she said, i've got to cut this off, she had, i said, i just bought it last week, so i put my hands back, and they gave in and they they actually took it off me without caughting it, so i was happy enough with that, and the these people were pointing and i had a small uh wound on the right and a small round on the left, and these were the entry and exit wounds, i just kept... you i

fell through a ditch and the i remember the one man said um uh what were you doing up here? they obviously heard my accent which isn't isn't northern accent said what were you doing up here and i said i was playing i had no idea that they didn't know who we were you know because we go into a shop everybody knows who we are you know was um and uh i said i was playing. and - he said i alg he said playing at what so eventually uh i said playing music and um i think they started to realize this is band next thing all these machines started to come down i think it was x-rays or something like that and all the banging and denies from these and next thing i woke up uh hours, hours later, eight or

nine hours later, and it's just my wife was just standing there, she had been dead, billy and marie brought her up, and when they arrived at daisy hill hospital... um um there was a lot of security and there's a lot of commotion outside jazy hill and uh and billy went straight over to the the security man with he had a like a clipboard and billy said we're here to see stephen travers and uh and anne was there she i mean you think about she was like she was only 21 you know 20 22 21 22 and uh and uh he said uh travis he looked down the clip book oh yeah he's dead and billy said no check it again he said we're told he's that he's he's uh that he's he's okay and he said oh my mistake he's in theater and um god so eight or nine hours but

i have to say uh disney hill hospital within 24 hours 48 hours of the whole thing happening gave me back my my faith in mankind the just amazing people you know amazing people steve, it's an extraordinary story, and no matter, no matter how many times i hear it, it's just um, it it stays with me, i mean it, it's took you many years, it's taken you many years, sorry to come to terms with what had happened, but also you've been engaged in a journey of reconciliation from that, which is you know speaking the before, has been very, very important for you, do you want to talk about that? as you say, coming to terms with it is is is is is important, i don't know if you ever come to terms that you actually accept that something happened, um, you never quite understand it, and uh, and for me it's not an extraordinary story at all, it's it's my life, i don't know any other life, and this is the case with many victims, uh, but for all those years up until

2016, until we uh, number of us got together, and eugene reeve, whose three brothers were murdered on the... 4th of january 1976 he and uh joe campel whose father was murdered in kushendall actually by the same the same man was involved the jackel the jackel robin jack jackson um who was killer for hire and he's working working both with the special branch and with uh mi5 um we got together there was an event in in the uk was run by michael oher. whose little sister mello here was murdered uh in in 76 and i think it was august 76 and it it was bring people together from both communities who had been had been impacted by the troubles - one of the other speakers on that particular event his his his

wife had been killed in the shankel road bombing and there was there was four of us talking about our experience. because it's important to to talk about these things so that people understand the futility and the failure of violence and we decided that the event that was al mcbr was the man's name whose wife sharen was was murdered in onkel road bombing but when when we began to realize you know there's more it's more about other people as well as me you know it's it's so been focusing for all of these years on myself and my own story and then i started to hear other people's stories, i thought, well it's important that that that society understands what happened, because you have to understand the past, it's like people often say, well let's move on, but if you go

down to to do your driving test a you know and you turn up without a rearview mirror, you'll fail the test, you have to know where what's behind you before you can you can navigate. safely into the future, so it's important uh that that we know, so it started to to understand other people's stories, first of all, i wasn't alone in this, i wasn't, this was, this was a journey that we all had to had to make and to come to terms with and to understand, you can't, you can't excuse the things that happened, but i began to look at the word, the big word for me now is context, you know why people do certain things, i believe that the people who who were there on the night and even though... with the you know screaming and shouting the obsenities, but they actually you know the products of of of uh the times the were in the also products of of of of the society that they grew up with, and if you're bounced on your knee by your grandfather and tell you

to hate the person who lives across the road because they say different prayers to the same god, you're going to believe that you know and and this fear and all of these things, it's not excusing these things, but um uh so the the journey, the reconciliation journey started off with using the word reconciliation, and then we we noticed that words like reconciliation meant different things to different people, to people down in the south who uh unfortunately know little or nothing about what happened in the north, they think reconciliation is let's build you a big expensive peace bridge in the north and we get both factions uh tell them behave themselves meet in the middle and hog each other that's not that's not going to happen that's not it's not feasible it wouldn't happen anywhere so began to understand the whole thing so uh and more and more it just there was two things that just came to the four for me was first of all education, education is to understand what happened, why

it happened, it's not, it's not enough to understand what happened, just always ask the question, why did it happen, and um, you terrible things, once once once the killing starts and once once somebody on either side or and it wasn't just two sides because it was orchestrated by - tommy said the great singer songwriter said to me one time um tommy has a beautiful song called there were roses, it's about two two young friends catholic and protestant and we were up in his house in rosavel one time and there was lots of guitars and everything around this is not too long ago and i said to tommy sing there were roses and he sang it and it brought it back you know the the because we were mixed band and and i remember saying to tommy god tommy is terrible things done by by both sides during the conflict and tommy's a wise wise old man, he said um, i say old, he won't

like that, but he said, um, oh, he said terrible things indeed, he said, but there was a terrible thing there in the first place to make it happen, and in my new book, i actually finish with that sentence, because there was an unjust, it was an unjust society, it was was injustice there, and ' "but as i say, when you know when when when either side starts to kill the innocent and murder the innocent, whether it's you know whether it's the miami or claudy or or whether it's you know and skillen or the or or or the revies or the odouds or anything, you can go on forever with these things, but we have to say, we have to call it out and say you know murdering people is wrong, and it it, but we can't say, well, i'm going to blame you for this, now i'm going to..." "you know, i'm never going to have anything to do with you, unless this dialogue here, we have

to, we have to dialogue is really, really important, we wouldn't have had the good friday agreement without dialogue, and our organization, you can see it on tarp.ie, but it's it's it was very, very successful in so far as is bringing people, letting them tell their stories, but there's a danger in that as well, that it becomes very sofis." sort of very sophisticated what aboutary exercise and you're inclined to want to balance the books, well if somebody here you suffered from one com in one community, because neither community has a monopoly on suffering or loss, but you somebody you say, well we we've heard the story of this person, we better get somebody from the other side and hear that story, that doesn't work, and it's something that you know in the year. is since we formed her, but trying to balance the books is is

not healthy, somebody who is impacted by one side of the other, is entitled to stand up and tell their story on their own, and they should be able to tell their story on their own, just as i'm doing here now, and they shouldn't have to have somebody from the other side to tell their story to balance it out, and the people on the other side should also be able to tell their story without having to having to, because what happens is you get this... you get this phenomenon where when you hear these stories uh and you're trying to balance the books, people who are are you know especially in the south or in the uk or wherever say ah one was as bad as another you know they're all the same they're all attitude they should have got a bit of sense and it wasn't like that it's it's context and every single uh killing every single thing has has its own context it didn't rely on something else and can't say i was justified to kill somebody because somebody killed my neighbor, it isn't like

that, so we have to hear individual stories, the other thing then is that that as i say cliches become this sort of firewall for us, we say you talk about what happened on bloody sunday, but we don't mention the names of the people, you talk about dublin bombings, the dublin man, we don't mention the people, they become a cliche, we talk about omar, "there are some people, you'll never forget gordon wilson's voice, but then again at the same, the vast majority of the people who are died during the troubles, they become, they become..." cliches rather than actual individuals, because it was inconvenience for people to have to say these were real human beings, but we do have to know the stories, because the alternative it is, is uh, if you know violence, as i say, it doesn't work, you can see it's not working anywhere in the world, and there's always, it'll go on for hundred years and another hundred years and

itl still never stop, so hopefully the message comes across that the only reason i'm telling these... telling this story or are talking about the actual horror of it, it's sous that people will say, i don't want that for my kids. steve, it's always great to have you in belfast, and i want you to do one last thing before we finish, you said you had new book, you want to plug the new book, i thought, thank god for that, i thought you were going to ask me to sing a song, it's never seeing or play the guitar, um, yeah, we have have new book. the uh the book we we brought out in 2007 was called obviously the the miami show band master survivor search for the truth um and that led to the netflix documentary so it was brought the story to a global audience like your films and you mean there's nothing better to you than to get

people into a theater showed on television this new book is actually called the base player and the nature base player, somebody sort of stands back, at least in my in my case, the vast majority of base players like to stand back and uh lay down a groove and and work with the drammer and not be the one that has to get out there and and and and front the band and smile and jump around the place and all that, we were the the ones that stayed back, so in that context i i hope that you know i'm able to maybe talk about the things that i've seen, talk about the things that... in front of me uh, anybody could write a book about the miami show and massager at this time, but how how would how how it changes your life, how it makes you different from the person that i began at 24, complacent, arrogant, somebody - who couldn't care less about what was happening in the north, um, to somebody who cares passionately

now about about um about what happens to our people all - on this island and and on these islands, but it was learning curve and it's it's taken me next year, will be the will be the 50th anniversary, and it's taken me this long to realize that every single incident, my uh, my experience, everybody's experience, whether it's you know all of these well-known atrocities or whether it's the ones that people never get an opportunity to speak about, you know, they're all connected, we're all connected and... and uh together, i think there's no better antidote to uh to uh uh violence, no better deterrent to uh any of these evils that brought brought all of all of those deaths about than the voice of the victim, i think the voice of the victim is very, very important, and there are some, i'll i'll never forget listening one morning,

i was listening to, the reason i want to thank you for having me yesterday, she said because before i was on your... program yesterday, i was nobody and my husband was nobody, but since i spoke on the program she said, i am somebody and my husband is somebody, and i felt guilty because mean, ours is very high profile case, and the rock and roll element in our thing, you know, actually gets the attention of people, generations in the future all, because there's always this, this rock and roll, rebel type of connection that you, you know young people have, so we have that advantage, but i remember feeling very guilty, listening to that lady and thinking to myself, you no, i'm taking it for granted that - that our story is well known, so whenever i speak about about these things now, i also like to remind people that, i'm i'm only one of over 3 and a half thous people, you know, when it came to to to people who were killed, but it

was 44, 45,00 people injured in that, so if by telling my story... uh, if if that makes somebody stop and think, there's a better way to do this, there's a better, let's let's talk about it, it's not going to be easy, so the difference, the journey that i've had from being this, you know, couldn't care less about what was happening just up the road from us to to where i am now, i'm a slow learner, but at least i think i think uh, it's important, my journey is important, so the base prayer is that journey, it's... the story, the the new book which will be out at the end of this year, it's a story of the journey and the ark of the journey, and and and how i got here, so i hope i hope that... i hope that'll be my legacy in at this particular book bas, well we b be looking forward to to reading that, steve, thanks, once again want to thank you for coming to belfast, always good to have you here, it's

always great to be in belfast, thank you, thanks, and that does it for another week, we'd like for you to join the conversation by sharing the link to today's program to help us grow our audience across all our social media platforms, and once again like to thank our special guest steve trevors, in the meantime, the conversation will be back next week with more investigations and analysis. i'm sean murray, bye for now. six months into the mowing the grass strategy, the sutler genocidal israeli entity has... icated immense effort to murder civilians and deprive the choice and right of resistance through suppression, invasions, assassinations, and widespread arrests in gaza, just as it does in the occupied west

bank. the science settler entity in palestine is undergoing the same crisis that previous settler projects have experienced, failing to eradicate the indigenous peoples of the countries where they were established, before heading themselves towards disintegration and collapse. israel cannot regain the deterrance it pretended to. have, therefore it practices comprehensive genocide. this is exactly why there will be no escape for this settler entity from the fate of similar settler projects that have disintegrated and collapsed. six months of genocide this week on the mediast stream.

in today's show we'll be covering the growing

popularity of cudsday and the frantic efforts of zionist extremists to undermine and sabotage it. well, it tells you that they uh intend to intimidate, bully and harass any organization that gets in their way, and they intend to be able to occupy those organizations, so it's not it's been saying, these were organizations. which did it off their own but the designers didn't even have to lift finger in some some cases because the organizations took each other to court, they contacted every uh non-brown named person individual um back in 2017 saying you work for an anti-semite, how do you feel about it? but they didn't contact anyone with a brown sounding name which shows uh where they coming from really, but yeah it really does take it out of you, but thanks to friends, thanks to supports, thanks to people. like yourselves gone through what you guys have gone through, and that energy.

bismillahirrahmanirrahim.

the headlines iran strongly condemns israel's attack its diplomatic premises in syria saying the regime seeks escalate conflict in the region while evading accountability. president says the terrorist attack on iran's embassy in syria is a sign of israel's profound desperation and last struggle of a failing or falling regime that is and the world bank says his results thought on gaz is

inflicted about $18.5 billion dollars in damage to the uh critical infrastructure there.