casualty speaking the truth about the complex as essentially been criminal on the after 7 days of choosing. brother media says they didn't get to manage to extend this and very humanitarian ceasefire. palestinian authorities say at least 109 people have been killed and others more injured amid renewed id of attacks on gaza . the having chosen to hold on to women, come off will now take the mazda of israel, says a mosque will suffer, a major reckoning for taking it to this is hostage as bonds continue to rain down on gaza. civilians taste a mounting catastrophe. i was asleep when i heard the sound of folding stones. after that i heard my students voices. then i heard people starting to dig. i don't know what happened to my sons and daughters. i rushed out into the street without

even putting on my clothes. this is the nature of these, were they all me? what more can i say? and somalia things russia for its 1st delivery of 25000 tons of free grains, saying the assistance has arrived at a crucial moment. so those are the headlines we're following here on our to international next on cross top, peter lavelle talk to his guest about the criminalization. i'm speaking the truth about the israel palestine conflict. the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level framing and contextualizing the israel palestine. conflict has always been to size

and even weaponized. today, this is on full display and it is polarizing beyond the mass civilian casualties. speaking the truth about the complex has essentially been criminalized the processing power assign. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he is a legal and media analyst in san francisco. we have richard hartigan, he is a journalist, as well as the author of the book, the other side of the wall. and in sydney we cross ej aloria. he's the editor in chief of concerning him news dot com. i gentleman cross side girls in effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. we're gonna go to jo 1st because it's 12 midnight in sydney, a true hero of cross talk labor. joe, you as wouldn't ukraine. we have this conflict now in gaza in palestine. and you know, we have an elite narrative and then we have is a go through a civil society across the western world. is

a lot more complicated than what they're telling us. okay. so being a pro power speed power help for palestinian does not mean your pro, her mass, but we're told that all the time, which is utterly absurd. go ahead. joe. as well as a good many of american people in particular, i don't want to talk about who are a human beings with normal human feelings. we like to think we live in the modern age, peter, and that genocides of which there were so many in history or thing of the past. but we're watching one, an old testament style genocide, live on t v as upset and a lot of people around the world. and particularly american people in young americans were going out in the streets and numbers. and not only people, industry, despite and joe biden is feeling the heat in the street in the white house, in the state department amongst his own party members and voters. this pressure from the american public combine is the only force in my view that could end this genocide very soon if i hadn't got on the phone and said no more weapons,

no more money. it has to stop. it's gone far enough, but of course we don't expect that to happen, by the way. nothing yahoo! to wear the high school in philadelphia and started am i to you in massachusetts and was the you and invested israel from israel who up in new york. he knows you speak 2nd about an american accent in english. he understands the american. so i called you, i don't think was coincidence at this 4 day pause, which is now yes. has been extended faculty have added for day for day thanksgiving because he knew the american people will be watching tv and he didn't want to show genocide while they were having their holidays. so i think the american people are the ones that get in this and button and nothing you all know this, you know line or you know, the, we have the anti defamation league is going after jewish voice for peace calling them. and ty submit it, can you explain to me how that is even remote remotely possible? i know i'm still trying to figure out jews for jesus. i don't understand any of this. in fact, what we're doing right now is this is a war of taxonomy,

appalachians. i am now replaced with my my world used to be trumped arrangements and drums. i know i'm into an is really a gaza derangement syndrome. i have to follow. certainly a pre set things to say, i'm losing friends. we're doing the same thing. yeah. we're, we're using the word anti semitism. like we use the word racism, it's been deluded to nothing. then we'll throw in zion is, i'm just like, what does this have to do? then we will say, well, this is about religion. and i say, how do you think the troubles and northern ireland were a good product since the catholics? but here's my best one is this, we always talk about proportion. there's no proportionality between what's happening out and what's happening with russia. somebody actually a prep, a prominent person, i'm not going to mention his name actually said i'd said that israel should be applauded because at any time they could go in and just level gaza. i said,

but at any time put and it could go in and level you great. well, that's different. what do you mean? that's well, the feedback made up. that's the point. lionel is always, except, except for ok, i'm for free speech, but. okay, let me go to richard in san francisco. i'm going to name some names here. i think they're all pretty well known. they've reuben allen. dearest you with douglas murray, jordan peterson, ben shapiro, bar barry wice. well, 15 minutes ago they were all free speech advocates. what happened? yeah, that's an excellent point. i think, i mean free speech, it's kind of generally known that free speech is people support free speech when it's in favor of what they are and when it supports what they are in favor of in favor of i mean you, you see what's happening to the students in the united states, they're being modeled on k, especially on campuses. it's a really,

really difficult situation. they are, they are, you know, the right wing is all about free speech. everything is well free speech. but in this case, that it's gone completely out the window. yeah, yeah, it's really unfortunate because it shows the hypocrisy that they're, their advocacy a free speech was just to score political points or something. and means that wasn't very important to them. jo, in, in, in sydney where you already brought up the operative word here and it's something that i think we should always use very, very carefully. but it's not used carefully by the us government and it's called the word genocide. okay, right. just a minute ago. so that is like china is committing a genocide. everybody's committee content is like but not in gaza. and that is truly, truly a odious because the i c. c. a, you know, always going after the adversaries of the west. but have you heard anything from the i c c? when it comes to the gaza as well?

they've had a file open for 5 separate years now in slot and 2015 palestine. when it became unobserved, state filed a complaint against israel. they've been, it was 5 years, a preliminary discussion, and now it opened up in 2021 for good. he doesn't need to wait. carry him con. who was the prosecutor? she prost crew to the i. c. c. he didn't wait. how long was the thing we're going on before you indicted fulton? so he could do this right now. it doesn't need for the word and, and the evidence is overwhelming. and i agree with you the word genocide, for example, should not be used lightly at all. but if you tell me the congenital convention defines it in various ways, one of them being quite deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring a physical destruction in whole or part. that's key people to forget about or part . you don't have to kill a 1000000 thousands to be guilty of this. we haven't had a francesco been asia, the un rubber 2 are on the occupied territories. and now that p a who is investigating possible war crimes in this current cause of war. uh for the un human

rights council. both of them have talked about genocidal intent in discussion in statements by is really officials. i think we've all heard them by now. they're human animals. we're going to burn it to the ground. let them know who is quoting from the old testament. they have made over and over again. these statements disappear, icpc could be doing something right now, but why aren't they? we all know why? because united states putting enormous pressure. what is the most politicized court in the world? they will do anything to stop. israel and american soldiers are being indicted and so far they've shown absolute cowardice to only indict african leaders and the 1st right man was why the important, okay, well, you know, a line or, and why? why the, by why is the biting administration continuing with its policy being asked repeatedly, are there any red lines which makes its way, oh, everyone should know our audience. you know, almost all the weaponry is real, is using right now is american made. ok, america is culpable in this. it is

a is as uh, as far as i understand tony blankets visit the secretary of state, he won't be attending a war cabinet. he won't have a seat at that table line or is this is the reason why people are so upset that you can have it. you could have an opinion on the power assign question. i mean, it's been around, i can look at all of us here on, on this program. it's been with us our entire lives. but when it comes to mass casualties, most people gonna say not in my name line. 02.2 years ago. i'm a lawyer back profession and years ago contracts uses a party of the 1st part party, the 2nd part. and i suggest that whatever we discuss anything evolving is real or palestine because people always confuse palestine with hamas because we have to get definitionally correct. let's just call it party, the 1st part party. the 2nd part, if i would just say, let's assume a country did this. you should be able to answer the question there is in, in my country and i've been in media as we know, brother peter

a long time. and there has been through years of, of, of i guess, conditioning an absolute 3rd rail patel or, well, recoiling from ever even brushing the subject of the word israel less you feel this incredible ton of breaks on you. all of a sudden that's off. have you noticed how in the world of social media, people like finkelstein and mirror shy marie and others who themselves were to load them pretty much outliers. now they're enjoying this incredible research. it's a problem and is because people want to hear this. and finally, we have an election coming up and jo button and the democratic party to show you this gets so affective this association from reality. how do they go to their base and say, we are your favorites? we are the, the, the standard bearer of the classic product, typically liberal progressive wing when it in fact,

they're absolutely indistinguishable from fox news. right. i mean, look what's gonna happen to bobby kennedy. yeah. look what's happening. october, the 7 peter changed every thing in terms of labeling, nomenclature, political positioning, strategizing, it changed everything, but if you don't see the light on what it did, also it reveals who has a moral compass and i think that's the most important thing. you know, richard, you know, we come across this a, a claim. israel has a right to exist. well, that is the most last i got argument i have ever heard in my life. israel does exist. it exists under international law. it is a member of the united nations nation. states have obligations when they are a member of that body here. so i'm so sick and tired of that retort, richard as well. exactly. i mean, they do exist when people talk about the right of israel to exist. it's kind of a,

it's a very on. it's a strange question. so very loaded question, right? because, you know, know, i'm chauncey says, states don't have the right to exist. they just exist. yep. right. and so when, when you ask a question of whether israel has a right to exist or not, there is a question about, you know, does it have, does it exist, have the right to exist as an ethnography? is there a right for a country to give complete preference to one group of people based on their religion over another group? and that's a completely different question. all right, so now i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine space with our team, the more expensive. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different

opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do you have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not, we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way inside the the

the, the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the,

the law should be to go. the welcome make the process where all things are considered. i'm peter will about to remind you we're discussing palestine. the go back to joe and sidney joe, i think probably the most pernicious element of all of this is the word zionism, and how the zionist have been able to very effectively make a design is i'm in israel and judaism is being one thing which is not a part and couldn't be further from the truth. ok, zionism has nothing to do with judaism. zionism is a ethnic nationalism that is very, very intolerant. okay, it's

a premises id. ology. let me give an historical, an example for our audience. this is like jim crow. okay. it just called zion is a many different part of the world. and israel, the be extreme white wing, people that are running the country right now are very comfortable in using it because they think the west as, as joe has already told us that in. yeah, know now who knows this very well that you americans won't, can see and understand the difference except for american views to see the difference. and they are appalled by the use of zine ism in their name. go ahead, joe. as well, you're right. zionism is a secular political movement has nothing to do with religion. the old joke is a dinosaur. 8th is to think, god gave them the promise land. so there's a, it's a real problem to conflate, a judaism and zion is my big problem because you could be certainly opposed. design is, i mean it doesn't make you into jewish, but i go by conflicting it. it gives them coverage to be able to say that anything,

any criticism of the israeli government is somehow entered yours or after i submitted, you know, call and power back in 2000. i think in the 1st you and conference on racism in durban and south africa was asked to the press come and visit and us admitted to criticize these really government. you said absolutely not. we've come a long way from that. they've gotten away with this look how they've changed the debate. we're nobody's debating about whether this is a genocide or not. it's whether this is at this america not what's going on today. that's a smoke screen behind which israel's carrying out its ethnic, cleansing, operational looks clearly. they want to kick. they've kicked very old houses that have north gods. looks like they're gonna try to kick them out of shop into egypt. this is the continuation of the not for that never ended, but it intensifies every once in a while. this is the most intense. it's certainly been since 1967 or 73, that they are continuing to driving of the post to the people of the land so that israel can fulfill been greens dream that he had in the red house and tel aviv, which was to take over all of his start palestine at that moment they will go for

a one state solution to allow whatever our to remain together. but just the way the americans gave the american in united states gave it the american indians about 1924 after enough for them were killed off. yep. it, you know, richard is very interesting. is that again, the way that's being framed, particularly in the west, particularly in the united states, the joe biden and anthony blake, and we have to go back to the 2 state solution. well, just in the last news cycle, netanyahu was trying to convince the little quick look the code party that he should stay in power because he's the only one that can make sure that there won't be a 2 state solution. i mean, american media, if it doesn't even realize what's being said on the ground in israel and, and then the state department price of sal what the big a will be a mediator with united states is not a mediator. it's on one side, richard, the united states has not been a mediator for a long, long time in this,

in this so called conflict. and the double speak is just incredible. let me actually i do want to address one thing about the complaining design is i'm with the or and design is one of the anti semitism. not only is it completely wrong, but it also, i mean the anti semitism is a real problem in this country. and by obscuring that definition, it completely diminishes the fight against true anti semitism. and not only that in saying that and that anti zionism is the same thing as anti semitism, is like saying design is i'm in judaism or the same thing, which is which is itself anti semitic. are you saying these people are saying the draft of land and and apartheid are jewish values. that's anti semitic. it's probably anti slide level. you agree and jump and go ahead. you know, a couple of things i've, i've been israel twice and the thing that the people have to see is when you say is riley, their arab is real. is it rarely,

if you want to read what is i i read something from her read one time to a friend of mine. so can you believe this book is a good? this is a look at it and you submitted pat, but i read it and i said, look, no, this was okay. peter gentlemen, i am from the united states. i have been absolutely fearless and sometimes brutal in assessing my own countries brutality, whether it comes from to vietnam or are they a stupid wars in iraq and afghanistan? i've had no problem whatsoever. nobody ever called me at the american. nobody. i never ab negated my my, my faith, my fidelity, my field to, to my country, but something happened. sure, that's different. and by the way, the trump, the actual book, when you go on a product, typically classical conservative show, you must ask the following. number one is how much a terrorist or innovation number to denounce october? the summit. number 3 is israel have the right to exist? number 4. what if it were you?

how many times do these top isn't have to be repeated? the gentleman, there is something which i love and it's called complexity. and we, we could take peter, one of your well crafted questions and spend 3 hours to go to one. i know the american media don't have time for that. we speak in a 140 a character sound bites, and we need names and yes or no and who's right and who's wrong? this is, i'm going to say this again, the world change october. the 7th does change the matrix the, the, the track, the, the, um, the mortality of politics, geo political, you name it. nothing will be the same from now. yeah. but joe, i agree, absolutely. with lionel. but october 7th, open the eyes of a lot of people in the world, and that is what's so important here. when i saw jewish voices for a piece at uh in new york and a grand central station, i almost almost brought a tear to my eye because i thought, finally these people are speaking for themselves is real,

doesn't speak for all jews in the world. no, absolutely. if there's gonna be any silver lining in this horrendous the uh, the master that we're watching right now. it will be that more and more people in the us and particularly young people especially are opening their eyes to the history of israel and palestine. what the concepts really about and they've given up on the idea that there were no people there and the israel has made the desert bloom when they drove out 750000 people violently from their homes to take over that country. and that process is still going on more, i'm up to see that that is a great worry of israel, that they will find out. and people of the world is finding out and the trying to cover up by calling this any criticism of what they're doing. and i shipments, i'm just as we've discussed and they will continue to do this. i'm afraid that they will, after this pauses over, they're going to construct the weather again and drive out as many people as they

can. i only button can stop this and only american people could force that somebody that was that. so there is a lot, that's what they're worried about. it's joe. but let me say what joe here is that that's what's really problematic here. because you know, joe, by and by his own admission is a great zionist here. and we have a lot of people is hired a higher up in the administration that are the of the same out. and i really worried that they, they will not deter netanyahu. we netanyahu's fighting for his political life. let me switch it over to richard in san francisco. this is about about his personal legacy is as well. i am terrified that the war will return in greater intensity richard, as well, i think, yeah, nothing. yahoo, i mean he's fighting for his political life, but he's also i don't, i, i think the bombing will start again. i don't, i really, really hope not. i don't know, i mean there's so many conflicting a couple of, i don't know if conflict things right. we're,

but there's so much pressure on him. his political life, the, the families of the hostages are, are begging and you know, there are marches and protests begging him to, to continue the ceasefire. and i really don't know what's going to have a, i hope this thing. the violence somehow ends, but i don't, i mean, his stated goal was to eradicate. i'm us. and in fact, i mean that's what he wants to do, but he wants to do more than that. they want to eradicate garza, there is a spurious for crime happening at the moment that it's always interest. it's always understanding how these things are framed and you know, getting rid of him us, but line on wouldn't have been better how to bring peace among all these people here. see that something and aspirational thing that something that could be thought about. but what would netanyahu in, in the us government is just pursuing violence and that's not going. does it last 75 years, the 75 years of violence has not created

a solution vinyl. and let me tell you something. also, here i am in new york. let me tell you what i find fascinating. as 2024 elections. bloom. many many friends of mine who have been part of typically died in the world . classical, liberal, limousine, liberal, upper west side, whatever you want to call them. they are jewish, and they always align themselves with the, with the prototypical classically liberal progressive wing. now they're finding that their support of israel is being met with violent political and sometimes physical violence by people who of to we are part of october. the 7th aligned themselves as number well, so we're seeing just this, this association. so we're seeing classically a part of typically liberal jewish, new york, americans now aligning themselves with the conservatives. and you're seeing this complete re shuffling of everything. so i say this again, unless we get,

as you gentlemen have said correctly, unless we figure the nomenclature, the operations in the text taxonomy correct. when it comes time to vote, you're going to be confused. i'm telling you again, bobby kennedy. pet is a darling to 0 degree everybody and he has now because a recent event shifted to the right. he therefore could be punching votes from trump. yeah. and handing it to the next president, gavin newsom. so this is you name the area, the implications that you say correctly. open the eyes from october. the 7th, everything's different. now a joe, i'll give you the last 35 seconds of the program. go ahead. yes, my fear is that the, the paul's, that where i'm seeing the seas far will continuing to as many hostages prisoners can be released and then the user will begin it's bombing again. and biden is got to make a calculation here. does he risk his re election or the democratic parties re election by continuing to be seen is complicit with this genocide or to the face

that the typical pressure of the israel lobby that could primary and destroy political careers? this is the cat goes, he has to make out, and we all hope that he makes the right decision and tells these rallies to stop. well, we know what brock obama side of the way i think it was. a former defense secretary said about jo biden's decisions on foreign policy or as all the time we have gentlemen want to take my guess in san francisco, sidney and in new york. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc. and next time we members prospect the your thought to clean deal has never been a model of any military alliance auto printed on the lines. that is the fundamental

difference between india and many of the other countries. so this comes with the total price because as you said, the alliances and countries which want you to be a part of them. and if you're not, then you're looked upon with a suspicion. but it does kind of as to what all these black and white divisions of the the, the tax just for the funeral. it's almost 4 and impulse monthly of for the semester class. and like i said, the last will probably, that's something i've been in the school just to read in

the goals and a couple of them in my own way. this to the football shy away in the country, which was sold in the pursuit of preserving issue one of the most when you this is this the public sanchez. i've been doing news over 30 years into languages all over the world. here in the united states, interviewed for presidents worked good for 5 different television networks. and i