the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the rabbit collapse of the ottoman empire gave the arabs hope for independence. but the colonial power. so their future differently. great britain and france agreed on the seizure of the arab lands under the guise of the so called mandate of the league of nations. this bible play caused particular indignation in a rack,

which was to get under the control of the british. in may 1921 rest with claim for independence broke out, both assuming and that she took part in it. soon the rallies turned into a real uprising against the invaders. more than 130000 people took up arms. britain urgently began to transfer reinforcements to a rack and used aircraft radius war. secretary winston churchill birds, the use of chemical weapons against the rebels. and general ser i on their hel dane bordered the destruction of any village where weapons were found. burning a village properly takes a long time, an hour or more according to sized all day and recalled cynically. in his memoirs, the mediaeval girl, the paid off, the revolt was crush. however, separate his empire had to make serious concessions. in 1921, it recognized bustle. the 1st as the king of

a rag can gave part of the power to representatives of the local population. v. a racket revolt marked the beginning of the national consolidation of the country and became an important milestone on the way to final independence. the. and you might think that when a major international bank is caught violating the laws of dozens of countries, including in the areas of money laundering and tax evasion, they would want to clean up a tax. you might think that when this major international bank is caught, breaking the law red handed by a whistle blower within reports, his or her revelations to the us department of treasury and justice, that the bank would want to ensure that it's and it's employees then word solely within the confines of the law, unfortunately though, at least in the case of swiss banking giant,

u. b. s. u would be wrong. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 last year we told you the story of bradley broken, spelled d u b s. whistleblower who reported to the us government that u. b. s. had helped literally thousands of wealthy americans avoid federal taxes and longer money off shore, particularly in accounts in the caribbean. broken fields revelations eventually resulted in u. b. s paying a penalty of $780000000.00. at the time that was the biggest fine ever imposed on a bank in 2008, about a year after brick and feld had reported u. b. s to the us government bank executives ordered some of its employees, including our next guest to destroy all of their computer files related to customers,

with offshore accounts in switzerland. the unspoken message here was clear brook, and feld hadn't been able to reveal all of the banks. illegalities and bank executives wanted to destroy whatever evidence was left to try to protect themselves from further litigation, prosecution, and fines. but one employee, stephanie's you. bo refuse to destroy evidence, and she was the only one. stephanie protested to u. b. s. management and to french regulators. her documents would eventually help to identify $38000.00 offshore bank accounts, containing $12000000000.00. u b. s responded by trying to fire her during the 2008 financial crisis. the french government intervene, but u. b. s. was successful in harassing and intimidating her and didn't isolating her professionally. she soon begin suffering from anxiety and depression. in 2012 u b. s finally fired her, and not only did the bank fire her,

but it sued her to seeking damages for defamation. after the publication of her book, the woman who knew too much part of that series of lawsuits, plagues her today. with that said, stephanie did not roll over. she filed her own suit against u. b. s seeking compensation totaling 3500000 euros she one. but the judge gave her only 4500 zeros u. b. s. eventually paid a record fine of $4900000000.00 in 2019. but stephanie was left financially ruined and blacklisted in the financial sector. in the united states, whistle blowers are usually rewarded financially for their whistle blowing. brick and field was given a whistle blower. we're award of $104000000.00. that was a record at the time just a few years ago. another whistleblower who's anonymous was given $200000000.00 for providing information about deutscher bank submitted the elation of the lee board

benchmark. stephanie is now seeking to become the 1st french whistleblower to be awarded compensation for her revelations. stephanie's you bo, welcome to the show. we are very happy to have you. thank you, john, for where kind of way coming me here. thank you very much, stephanie. it's painful to read what you have gone through over the past 15 years. you did the right thing. other whistle blowers who did exactly the same thing that you did were richly rewarded for you. it was the beginning of the end of your career. so take us back to you vs in 20072008. bradley burke and failed had just made his revelations, your superiors ordered you to destroy bank files. and then what happened and i did not comply, which means that as i refused dealing those fires because somehow it was not understanding what it meant. uh, its very strange to work in

a company for 10 years and all of a sudden there is a kind of to now me the had been a search in the face of the general manager and its off to the search that i was asked should you need my 5, but i could not understand the link between the search and the office of the general manager and my job. so somehow i just industry that they want you to get rid of me, that there was something wrong with me. i never, i mean i do not understand by that time that the content of mind fires were extremely dangerous for the bank. uh, i know i really could not understand what was wrong i, i just understood that there was something really wrong with me. so i thought i had made a mistake and i really felt that they want you to get rid of me. and because i did not delete those fives,

nor the archives because then i was asked to delete the archives i had in my office . because i did them so i was not a big deal and then i suffered 3 and a half years uh to be as um, between 20082012. i suffered like many whistle blowers which is harassment. isolate issue. mm hm. this credit you'd be spending a complaint against me when i was still an executive of the bank. and um, well, it was the beginning of a very sad story because somehow i lived stopped in june 2008 when i refused to do those fines. i saw an interview that you gave research very, very difficult. i'm sorry to interrupt you. i saw an interview that you gave recently to my friend chris hedges in which you said that when you were at u. b. s

you never received any training in things like how to prevent money laundering or how to prevent income tax evasion. you also never received any ethics training. i'm certain that that's true because when i was at the c, i a i to never received any training and ethics or even in the rule of law. but you knew instinctively that what you were being ordered to do was wrong. what was it about you? more about your background that made you question what you were ordered to do. and it's true that i feel really different from many people, and i've always wondered why i was not behaving like others, somehow of a kind of gale to no, no behaving like other people. and i think it's 5 percent honesty, but i think it's going to be a couple of shock, a couple of shocks i suffered when i was

a child named me. one of the things i can remember is when i was 12 years old line mother took me to a 2 parter and she took me to the hours of 8 scam. and i was not prepared for that . i was not mature enough. i was not prepared. i was too young and i thing that the shock and tours for me made then me uh, try to to challenge everything that had been tools to me. why do people away? what if it's wrong? why do we human beings who have, you know, language scales compared to animals? why do we destroy our own space shoes? why? why do we comply without asking questions? you know, when yours a chart and if you have children, you know,

the children ask lots of questions. mm hm. and i've continued as a grown up to always ask questions and not to accept things like they are. so it's my behavior. so because i was trusting u b. s, because i was voting my time and my energy to you b s i was seeing now, you know, my boss is and my colleagues mold and i was seeing my own children. me, obviously, when this story happened, i felt that something was really serious. it's really serious. you know, not something like and we were detained on the daily basis and you live close like, but what on earth is going on? so obviously it was extremely scared. i was in canada, i'm always in a state of fear exactly like, you know, hunted animals, you know, during the hunting season use it and it was,

they were on everywhere on their extremely scared. but many, many people that you be as well. i this and usually fear per lives. these people, when people are in a state of fear, they don't do anything. the just though you know they comply. yes. but may be because i had this experience as a terrific experience. so as a child, and because it's something i remember every, every day of my life since maybe these tests told me the less than of my life. like i think think differently. you know, some how to think out of the box and do what students do. what you have to do is the only explanation i can, i can do. i think that's i think that's a very good explanation. and you know, the psychologists who work with whistle blowers say that whistle blowers have a very clearly defined sense of right and wrong. it's,

it's far more developed than the general population. one of the things that you have spoken about and written about has been the personal, social and professional solution that you've experienced. once you blew the whistle to french authorities, the bank worked hard to try to ruin you. so tell us what that was like, especially what was the reaction from your, your coworkers, from your friends, even from your family members? was there anybody that you could lean on for support? while i was like anybody else who do i have children. i had a family, i had friends under social life, i had to draw them. so obviously i was doing what all of all of you do. i was going to send them all. i was going into sports events that was going on holidays. but as i said, my life stopped in 2008 because nobody understood why i refuse to deal with this 5. why i decided to stand for the truth. why it didn't long to somehow shut up

and be a be doing and be what everyone perceives as being a good person. somehow i was the monster i was perceived as the black sheep. yes. and i'll just be fear. you know, we just talked about, uh about about 4 die with eyes. so and with the student as a child, but what could happen with a know people's mind and uh, what did do when people are re news care. mm hm. but this is exactly fit your family, your friends, your cronies, the potential employers, even generalized. yeah. yeah. like but or is that it's too violent? so people freeze, you know, and um, as you may know, the manager i'm experience,

you understand that everyone comply with the rules. if you know and instruction is being given by authority, whoever they are, people just okay, they fall into the responsibility run, say he or she is responsible. i just of a, i am know trying this and i don't why i'm not like there's some help. i'm really angry at myself is because i'm myself that i'm, you know, being to the side of society. so it's, it's extremely complicated because people knew, you know, we're talking about trust. i really trust in my company. i really trust in buy managers. but i also trusted my friends and my family and my cummings and mine to long try as i trust everybody, including the french societies afterwards, when i had to work with them. and somehow i understood that i don't know if it's fate. i have no idea. but somehow that the road was on was the one. no one

wouldn't back up. i was too scary and many people have said that to me we understand that you're a very courageous woman. but you know, you are a very scare me and i have never had this on my on my shoulders before. so it, yes it's, um, it's a blessing of life somehow. what happened to me when i was 40 years for 40 years old? and yeah, it's terrible. stephanie, please stay with us. we are going to take a short break. we're speaking with u. b. s whistleblower. stephanie zebo about her revelations of wrong doing at the bank. including the ordered destruction of evidence of criminal activity. we're going to take that short break and come back to talk about the aftermath of her revelations and about her book state and. 2 2

the, the welcome back to the list of lawyers. i'm john kerry, onto we're speaking with u. b. s with of lower stephanie zebo. stephanie, thanks again for being with us. a thing to john. there's a huge difference between being a banking whistleblower in the united states and being a banking whistleblower in france. in the united states. the whistleblower is eligible for

a reward of between 26 and 34 percent of the amount of money that the government recovers. thanks to the whistle, blowers, revelations, in the case of your former colleague, bradley burke and failed. for example. that meant that he received a $104000000.00 reward. but not only did you get nothing, you were harassed. why is the situation so different in france? why do whistle blowers there? have so few protections who it's going to be a very long? yeah, it could be a very long ounce or big cose. first of all, what we can say is that the lows and friends are extremely new. new in the us have, which are blowing in the constitution in france, it's back to 2016. so only 7 years ago. so obviously they are no previous cases. i am the 1st one, and this is on seen the sorry,

and i've been telling you for the 1st couple of minutes it's and seen and it's unknown. so as we have a new legal or the frame, well, nobody is used to that. the lawyers are not used to, it just is nothing used to it. politicians as you know, the talk and instead of talking the talk, they should walk the walk. but no one does because it's very complicated because it needs courage and it needs the truth. as we see it all we're, we're still living away. busy where lies are much more accepted, send a truce and i'm being warm during the fact this. i'm a woman in this man's environment because finance is last man, everywhere you know was bankers and i was not and i was an alter banker. and also because i've dealt with the ministry of finance,

is where they are. many men maybe has something to do with that. i have no idea because i'm french and i so i was a citizen of the sole corner country of human rights, right. which protects people or which way comes and protects people persecuted in countries and you know, when there is a war when there are plenty to go around and scandals or political issues, i'm a french women. i stood up against frame bench and i worked for more than a year with sworn office yours. so the french government has no was because in france they have 2 separate clothes as a load to protect with the doors. and there's a low we should work with this with the state on fraud. and so the figures are different than what the new announce for the us. i think it's by 15 person. for the big pros, it's something like 15 percent, but then you'll be

a scandal. what is the biggest road ever ever? france? that's right. it's the biggest one. i've never seen that. yeah. they have never seen that. and all of them, you know, civil servants. i worked with never, never dealt with something is biggest as when that that leads to my next one single was in charge exact. why don't they won the load to be applying to me that leads to my next question. actually, i know that you are seeking legal redress against u. b. s. and that there are several parts of your lawsuit that are still pending. can you tell us about that lawsuit and about your work to have whistle blowers and friends recognized? well, i used to have a pending case about that harassment. i suffered at the bank, but also because somehow my life i stopped since as you know, the u. b. s. you know, in the media they were extra me, uh,

angry and to me. so obviously this credit is crediting me was very easy and you'll be as being such a par, 4 bank because the older will assist. people have accounts with you b as in name me on the ceo's on the heads of multinational companies on the heads of the media. so as i was a communication person on the series i send to, i've never received any answers to my career editors. so obviously the so called protection low of whistle bars is super as true. i think a windows case and u b. s. would it be? we have to pay what they owe me, which means the past 11 years plus everything regarding my retirement right, came in regarding pay raise and rebuilding inflation and regarding bonuses and regarding $1.00 of our it's a huge mistake for me. but i think it's up to you in the state for you be asked to

because you'll be s as this credit to me every way. but i haven't started on any documents. that's right. i have an internal wizard blowing case i went in. so i really want to, to be as the president and general manager, the head of the h, r i, to, to the head of legal and compliance. i talked to everyone i could refer to and all of them had the same mindset with me that i was tired. there was an alter banker that, that was unable to understand what was going on. so somehow i or they have or the played with me. however, as i held the french government, and because u b s has been fined because you b as a manager is i've been fined as well. they've been sentenced and fine. so it means that i told the truth, and if i told the truth,

i guess that the judges will trust me. right? and that way, when want my child versus to be asked, but once again, i am the 1st one. so when you are the 1st one, it's as if you with tip toeing on uh, on chat, was it no wait? oh yes, extremely difficult. oh yes, it's a new world in that respect, you're the one that the really, that's really creating the precedent for for what comes next. i wanted to say also that i'm glad that i had the chance to read your excellent book, which i whole heartedly recommend to our viewers. one of the really terrific things about it besides your very compelling story is the fact that wiki leaks co founder julian assange wrote the introduction. can you tell us about that? how you got to know julian, hassan, and uh, and how he came to write the introduction to your book. well, i was honored to meet julian within the embassy of a quarter of

a quarter and london towards the 8th 8 years ago. and we spent 4 hours and discussing many subjects, obviously the relation between whistler bowers and media. and the trust one has a just as a, as, as a joyce with a whistle blower and as a whistle, glory to join us because it's, it should be a win win situation. and what we can do is somehow to keep people informed and how to protect people and how to protect with the lawyers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. we have many, many, many subjects to discuss. and as you know, 2 years later, i think them to see a record or of decided that the junior would be kept a silence and his cell phone was disconnected and they could not communicate to the world anymore. so i had a friend,

was able to see junior and under and uh, he agreed to provide me with a text. and if you've read the book, i guess it read the children's text, which is extra me i to rate because it talks about the hypocrisy of permutations. about lies about the truth, about fair fights, about fighting for the truth. so the text for children has written is extremely important when you know what the situation is like in daily days and days, you know, has been detained for more than 4 years now. or yeah, and as you know, a might be extradited to the us any time now. yes. so the meeting i saw was for me so how extraordinary because i'm french and i'm

a woman and i have a special profile as a whistle blower because i was not a whistle blower who came public because i gave information to the press. i had intell alerts and somehow i became a public person because right some people have given my. busy name to the mean. yeah. so we talked to june about on this, and i think that we will have to unite an or all of us who, whoever we are on the planets because this case is the case of our western democracies. you know? yes, as i've said to many people, um, because i gave you interviews everywhere in the world is that only the dictatorships, a separate children, young children from the parents. yes. and who are we in europe? who are the birds to have been able to separate june from mrs. new to children? me that when babies, when or when,

when you children was taken to the last. and we have to stand between this family because uh, it's not only do you know soul just case, it's all of us. it, oh god, read out speech. yes. and the freedom of the price and uh, its information that all of those us citizens are suppose to get on a daily basis of free information. and obviously i'm sure it's informations, so we will have to stand for us ocean. well, i want to thank you stephanie very much for being with us. it was a pleasure speaking with you. thank you jerome. thank you very much for. busy your time a telling can be very difficult on necessarily so the support of truth takes integrity. people with integrity do what they say they're going to do. others make excuses. people with integrity do the right thing, even when they know that they will pay

a personal price. but the foundation stones for integrity, honesty, character and loyalty. i for 1 am grateful for people like stephanie's hugo. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john kerry echo. we'll see you next time. 2 2 2 2 the acceptance and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what does it please or do you have the state department? the c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't marshall stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction. but again,

you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the the, the us and the grieving and gulf gaza. as is really bombardments returned to the enclave telling more than 180 people according to palestinian authorities. israel says it's ready for the wars next stage, and the id i think, uses to mazda violating the week long truth as it funds rein down on gaza, just minutes after the agreement expires in somalia, thanks for us. reports for us delivery of 25000 tons of free grain. sand assistance has arrived at a crucial moment. the