the, the, my mass general fancy and welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from the middle east is u. k, u s. u armed israel is continued the killing and gaza, the westbank lab and, and syria with abiding administration, declaring no red lines for his royal. what can stop thousands more from being killed? joining the someone who has been in the israeli government as just as minister and deputy foreign minister, former us back peace plan negotiator and then architect of the 1993. also the records you'll see bailey and joins me from tel aviv. thanks so much. you also you for coming on the violence of being continuing for a weeks. of course, i mean how many more people do you think joined the come us for every bomb dropped on garza and do you think it's an issue that concerns these riley in effect coalition government? well, i don't know what the hell does concern them with all due respect. they as you know me for a few years i'm such as thorn supposition produced

a government. i hope that after the world there we lay there will end them. okay. and beverly, this is what will happen, but these, you asked me about a joining come mazda as a result of the day of the conflict. now, a, i'm sure that you are right. i mean, usually in such a situation, you see that people identifying a weekday. we decide sometimes we did the suit the side, sometimes it is one side, but it cannot be a reason to allow us to remain the government in gaza. and that is the main point. i mean, they ensure that they was filled in with the end of del governing garza because they are doing, oh, phone things to the ups is. so is it so this is surrounding police, right? and to the arab countries. we sometimes a shy to is a openly,

but i'm sure that you know, we, the entire schools know it because i'm getting very many phone calls for people from the studios. and so i'm a others in the region. know who say don't give up, don't give up you all. fighting for all of us to a, to the mission is to just destroy the present device leadership. because if indeed it is an issue that you agree with and so forth. from us is a bodies surging getting the westbank full of the line. yeah. so it's increasing the number we said we, we that, i mean, we did go and see to us and i can understand if you to is that but not for long. i mean, if people see that this guys is under a no my a rule or not a, but i know these is zillow's, they're will you just and then i'm and i'm ended surging in the west bank. not only i know i reaction joy can you between booking july?

i'm sure because they are watching tv and seeing what is happening to their budgeting and i can understand it. but i don't think that it will go full long because they the ones they see this day, the situation. any guys after the world, even though would be a to a specie. if it would be the b o o as a will they keep it? they, they the, the leadership in, in gaza. hopefully ne rarely sense a dentist, the duration we change though, and that we understand that what was done mean guys, that was, it must. of course there is a, a, a list or a full, i mean voice people in gaza which is really very problematic. but please give me a, not the solution for the current, a situation. i still the 7th, when we know what they can do, and we know that they can retail, and we know that it is

a must likely to ice the seeing the bus. to put an end to a situation will by 8, the 8 is zillow. it's like them. i'll governing an area. i want to give their own devices in a moment, but you asked for a solution daily. the solution that's argued for by the u. a. russia, china is an immediate cease fire and some kind of negotiations in a neutral country that's not directly involved in the conflict. that's the solution as the, as all was except save world war 2, and then you'll do what is it the 1st with this will usually you'll have still sides, which are it will and, but they are ready to negotiate a behind the scenes publicly for what the eval, and usually people like by says, all your says, well sales, well this is the best solution, the compromise between them every day does a win win. you either will very said,

but now let's see together make peace between uses and that's the end of the story . or the only problem is how mazda is not to do. i mean, i wanted to talk to people for them, so i must smoke now. ending the last use for them. people like me. oh, the worst enemies because they don't want to. i like to spend solution. they don't want to have these wireless around. they don't want to have that you that? yes, i thought how about us it accepted the 1967. the board is i'm what is behind the literally no, this is very, very in bold. when they became so cause moderate and said okay, was reset is 5 full, the time being with the 67 bolt as they never said, we do because he's one doesn't exist full them. you know, it's resolution like that. thank you very much. i don't think this, maybe it was a stop, maybe it was a starting point. but what is this continue restored but well,

that'd be the be 3 about the not do i get to talk with any is really about the there are multiple this. if they say it, imagine that how much say tomorrow now, after so many use, we are ready to talk to these various well are ready to the 2 state solution and the liberal. negotiate about the bowl down refugees, your name, me. i could imagine that that would be kind of a solution despite all what happened in the past. okay. does that mean? you know, this week was the 10 years since nelson mandela died? you know, how many people say that it's in apartheid states, a israel, nelson mandela refused to negotiate unless the release of the amc prison is guilty of blowing up restaurants frequented by whites in the africa. right. is that normally power is, i mean, which was 9 when you, when you lift the prison was released. i'm honest one though it's prisoners. they

went through all the prisoners or they call them hostages, l bainsville released but not to uh, from us. i mean, they don't want it from us. we do ask, they don't stop. no, no, no, not until they're the prism of the palestinian prisoners are released by his rep isn't just as k i n c that won't if you'll get a quote today. well, they are saying release or the prism is indo willard and will be to talk to you well, know the game. i'm just creating the conditions for talking with me. well that's what nelson mandela did, and that's how peace eventually happened in south africa. what do you think if i was a friend of mine from estimates on monday, i don't compare them tired. i interviewed him here and that was his clear. ok. but it was when he was released the negotiations of the united nations on. does that contribute to believe that the adult thought most slowing investigations now? i i'm just, i'm just doing the interviewing here. and i'm saying that the,

so i'm telling you, if they say we are ready, if only go stations we diesel, at least i still though it is before though it is. what as though this is another board game, even after the 7th, the october, the 7th, because i don't believe for anything, revenge a, but they are not saying, well there was a little that prism is a laser as well as know payment right to is due to exist the day was big, the price on this was well, they want, but each. okay. not doing all the took only all the to release. i will, you know, 10 months babies. no doubt, keeping the phone was full was go something so that nobody in the world will regarding the october the 7th. what do you think of all this information that is totally coming out that the sexual crimes were being uh, evidence is being promoted by this group. zacko, i don't know who that is. it's,

i understand found it by a rapist, gave me a break. i don't want even to ask you about these people don't believe that these, these for women, oil heat and right then whatever i'm looking to seek permission to drove them, they're all, they don't want to believe. so the remote page, but when they, they don't limit the missteps and beauty and says we will rate. okay, but there's no no, no, no, but do you know 2 of our games? well, what do you make of 2 valid scope of this? a give them the security team for cable. it's very telling how rich is riley forces killed these randy jews and october the 7th. the idea of cold for aerial strikes of killed is riley's ok. maybe it is true and all the a lot of 1200 people who located on the 7th of october when people use ratings. but why is that not on? it's actually in the israeli press, but it's not in the breads in the united states and i believe that it is 100

percent right now. you will crazy. please raise, you know, obviously not hold a well on the bill. we paid our service. we raped double says, no, i invented, which i don't think there was any evidence of rainbow on either side, isn't it? but there's no evidence to those that's coming out. you know, i, i don't want to, i, of course, a good that's good to isis. let's get to take you to the bait. let's get to ice because you mentioned ices. and because somebody doesn't want to believe that drug to these, which took place then was the matter belief it's presenting the evidence is presenting the evidence, isn't it? okay? so it is, it is a joyce, univision, what is or what happened on october? the 7th was, is why no, the only source in the sunday times, for instance, uh in the past few days was this uh, group. zack, uh, and i understand it was founded by a rapist himself. yeah. who them is. uh,

we'll kill himself. but let's get to isis. and the, the ice is, fights is, uh, what was this rails position on isis? because didn't israel back the so called rebel groups in syria? do we have a video of net in yahoo visiting isis fighters in 2014 wraps again times of is very little thing is are alarmed and funded 12 groups. you'll want me to be the spokesman from it that you all know. i know you don't like them, you know, a supporter of, of the name, but his job is please no, no, but is this. i know you. i know that you are a very serious person and enjoying the least, and i don't want to participate in such a dialogue that somebody is what i'm thinking is that god believe that that there was no rate that there was most have enough of the bill there was no talk just so no, no, no they no, no, no, it knows i, i pretty sure the one people say they are cited as the evidence in british newspapers for the evidence,

for rape taking place and sexual crimes on october the 7th clearly. but that's okay . let's go to gaza right now. let's go to gaza right now. what do you think about israel's isolation in the international community? as well as the former deputy minister of foreign affairs in the is there any government the full mer? uh, is there any minister of justice diploma is randy minister economics and planning the fullness folks visit with the is there any labor buddy the foam or is there any minister in the prime minister's office of israel? you'll see ban ended the interview more from going on, the ground up to the stroke, right. the the,

the, the is the but do monday for keep the city or are you here? we usually buy more into the account and that's, and you remember those are still exist very square for, for your can be a solution in the next 3 are going to do to me nice as then look at that, which is 2 types. the remainder of the same as on the g 's use the, the pricing on your subscription to the most part of which the messages on some submit the 1st of all, but those of the what the avenue struggle the price was for stick with the brother

party to ship the bridge a lot. if you do here for the same at some of this, how much adds to it? yes, i did it the usually the on the to the, the truth and associates the, that i'm with, it's just the name, but i'm with the system. i mean motions portion of the to much better to for us, your more could be doing to now, you know, i'm so you and what is it going to do on come the general, the new shows eat and stuff on ocean federalists. and then we certainly see the. busy the the welcome back to going

underground in the 1st off we spoke to former israeli, just it's minutes. you'll see bailey and who terminated the interview about gaza. but in the hours of thursday morning this week, the legendary british pose and writer who addressed global political injustice, benjamin's f and i died at the age of 65. here is one of the last interviews he did with us on this show. benjamin, thanks for being on going underground a game while we had the premises studio in east london. and what is the revolutionary mines and the 2 are the album, the track? well, the track and the album i guess is about, or the revolution that i think we need now not necessarily one where people type of space and all that stuff. although sometimes i think we need a bit of that. but more about trying to get people to think differently. i'm, i'm just convinced that the old way of doing stuff is just redundant and i know you hear that from live upon to people then hearing of change, you know. yeah, yeah. and on a lot, but you know, i've said to you before, you know,

i feel economic just and that's the only way i can describe myself now because i look at so many otherwise people have tried and i think they're all letting us down in one way or another, i mean got to find a new way. i don't know what the name of it is. i'm not telling people have to vote . i'm just trying to say, think outside the box. you know, what i show we've had located as a drill minister must have phonics, even mainstream stuff like storms in your, on this music to a. i mean, i channel the bbc in channel for in britain. and they often have debates about whether it's music that's part of the problem. as regards a really cannot make violence of stairs. he says between the of a crash music. as far as i've seen as not made people unemployed. music does not put people into by the housing music has not left kids on the street hungry music, does not close homelessness. music is trying to reflect those things. the release of jailing or suspended said as a certainly for musicians drilling music in the south london started in south on an

international that's being blamed for the rise and serious. you're trying to find no artist that to deal with music and what used to be called road music and drive music. and a lot of them are very tragic people, but i live in a very hostile environment and they just reflecting the reality. and that's when i started creating music, it was a reggae music and we were talking about unplug unemployment. we talked about bubbles on the system. it was thing, that's what it was doing to a stop was already oddity, is a wonderful, a, a slice. a quotation may seem several typical. if a guy with dreadlocks to be quoted enough, a guy who had lots but it was an interview and somebody was interviewed by molly and setting up, why is your work so political then you just didn't understand the quite i agree that it was what the thing was interested in them, is that because he just for, i'm just writing about my reality. i'm just writing about the way we live. i'm more thing about the why we self. i'm writing about the why we at least, you know,

i'm writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. but it doesn't sit down and go, and i'm going to write political music. and i don't think, you know, i'm drill artist. i'm going to write really drilling music to upset people and cause violence. this is a reality. you jimmy cliff is on this show around the time the whole cell environment story started to emerge. and obviously he was suitably angry. but since to resume him, the disgrace to home secretaries amber road. i think she might be running that for lead to this as she went waving and having caribbean families on the show to hear about people who are in their eighties, who never traveled abroad. who are people with rather deportation, leaving the concord of funerals. there's not debts in jamaica, often the protection. i mean it surprises us here going on because you, you've been told you my issue has to do with the migration and racism for longer. does it surprise you in 1990 for april 1990 for

a joint god and it was killed. she was killed by an organization called extradition squad. that was a squad that used to go around and deport people. she was in the house with her son and they came. and i'm going to quote, my own poetry. they put a live about around 13 feet of type of band and close to secure her and only god knows what else. she's illegal. so the poor test at the end part of that proto, she died. nobody killed her. she never killed herself. as it is, i would jump to make a return to jamaica, so the alien deport as their default people like me. the problem is much longer than that, i wrote that in 1990 free. you know, this has been going on for years. i used to travel to jamaica, not remember ones around the same time, probably be early in eighty's, getting on a plane. behind me, there was a woman in hon cups. i met you sold me to recognize missus green,

benjamin benjamin and helped me please help me. and i said, what's the problems for they deporting me deporting me. i came to england when i was 6 months old, sending back to jamaica. i don't know. jamaica probably helped me help me. i must like desktop to sit and talk with her. the places that back of time. i'm all food, a fright to jamaica. i could hear a cry, it just wouldn't let me go near. so we've known about this for years. this is the 21st century and the, these flights are going on. i don't know why you're so surprised. no, it doesn't surprise me. and it's very sad that it doesn't surprise me, but it doesn't surprise me. not much has changed. and certainly when it comes to kind of immigration, there was no time in the home of this is when the home of his said a stop, we're going to have a look at the base and um,

and do something about it. there just be 3 can, is an under the same thing is that we can it in the wrong direction. the not creating an environment for these people to feel the whole, the creating a hostile environment. that's not a word. listening to the body department, but the woods are to raise a man. yes we just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica. and i heard from another one just a couple of days ago of to deportation. yes of to be palletized and i'm one guy that has gone back. he came here while he was young, but um he had to drive in the fence and they sent him back and he said, all his neighbors think is a rapist in the murder because some employees that we don't need the port in right is the mattress. i need, i need, i need to being deposited on a drive and offense, i don't know about you, but i have a driving defense, you know, be get pocket because all the time speed, it takes all the time either you look so into. so i don't know how to drive it to the best of you being very a big campaign or about the change goes islands,

maybe be maybe remember and don't know much about it. well, why were you involved, and what did you make of this court ruling that the british government seems to be ignoring the britain this to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific? well, 1st of all, what you've said is, right. every time i write or talk about these items, i get feedback from people. so i never heard of it. could this really have happened? and that's why i talk about it. so it outrages what happened to those island. and when it comes to the pressures government, ignoring the court rulings well, that shows you about some people talk about the rule of law. that's fine until it's an inconvenience for them. and then they just ignore it, especially when it comes to to tell us island. because it's not really in the headlines. i mean, i think at the moment a lot of important things in printers or international politics. but i'm speaking

from a business perspective. i'm not in the headline because he is so overwhelmed with breakfast and the government to get away with a lot of things because of that. i mean, if you're going question time somebody in on a few times and i bought that's all they were telling me that it's not current use. you know, if, if, if it's not in the papers, nice thought it'd be shut down so who decides what he's cut into? must not current. i mean the, the birth of a royal baby. oh. now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up to comment on the oil, maybe in terms of its identity politics, race, imperialism, kind of context. just some. when, when the baby was, i don't know, they'll tell you. well, this is a very important moment in our history. now i am flying, look, i'm just not interested. i'm a revolutionary moneys. don't give a dime when

a baby in the palaces bowl. i'm really not interested, but what do you think is going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think? oh, it could be a black maybe uncle benjamin's that for now? i don't. it's very difficult to get into it to the mind that somebody thinks that there's some, some gender, some me to people who think about, you know, benjamin's us. and i, uh, i can be andrews a call uh a for hers. and these are the spokes people for the black community. i mean, they were trying to be we just, we have our point of view, recreate the opposed to whatever. and we have a point of view, but we never time to speak for the black community. we're none of us are experts on black people, but they seem to think we uh, you know, i mean i've had worse things and i had an interview during the day with a lady kind of reached out to me the same. so benjamin, tell me, what does it like to be black?

i should remember. so that's good, i can, i mean, how do i answer that? okay, i just, i just said i got a problem. that would be what? judy this on just and bell much presently circle guantanamo prisons in this country . what do you make him when he leaks in to the situation regarding julia innocent. you know, i really don't know that much about him. but as soon as i started to hear about these words, suddenly i find the 4th fact, it would end this way. the idea of somebody who says there's all the stuff that's hidden from you. and i'm going to show you, if i'm going to give it to you left, right and centre. this is a kind of person i've always wanted to see, you know what i've always, i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about. and here's somebody's kind of putting it in the public domain. one thing that really upsets me

is that we don't hear about all of the stuff that they putting as i sort of film of american soldiers shooting innocent people industry. you know, this is big news. these are the kinds of things that the people of my country, the people that well should know about. these are the kinds of things that these people get up to. there's a lot of po, chain money to what am attracts on the album. it's is called in this world and there's a line that you could apply to do that. and it says i'm, we live in a world where people who expose corruption and illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and onto down. we live in a well, the bows of expos, violations of the law of himself, violated by the law. and i really fitness, what's happening to him generally about cool down because people talked about the privatization of stress being mental illness. obviously this was dirty, obviously there's the kind of evolutionary of, on demonstrations, uprisings what,

what is, what's just on cool down about. it's about young people. and i got a site was originally written about 10 years ago. it's about young people on the streets here. what kind of killing themselves at my isn't guns fighting because it's kind of post caldwell the side, the case of a day. we had a kid to just sit and that's why stuff is facing. a guy comes up to me says what ends are you from? it didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from another place. he's shutting i do think sometimes it is overblown in the media. but i do know parents who have lost their children that way. so for them, it's a very serious thing. i have to be in a funeral just a couple of weeks ago. very similar story. so it was a message to van 5 over a site, and that's as in the kind of society we live in. now, is natural to be angry. you know, it's what you do with that and, and when you just start coming your neighbors and your brothers and sisters,

you're directing, gets in the wrong way, front front and wrote about this kind of. sometimes when people contact the people that read it, pressing them, they start to think of that themselves. and i think that's what's happening. benjamin's f and i that who died in the early hours of that size day morning. that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team you're going underground and the thousands of very families here in the middle east will be back on monday here in host of golf to and had to buy with you a former climate change and environment minutes to dr. bueller? bit live on the way. me until then. keep in touch my role as social media, if it's not sensitive to annual country and had to watch on, we're going underground tv on normal. don't come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. see you monday, the funk this case is still with me. so can you

just send through space picks up the new printer, which is the story i just need to think of so so, so good. i used to be asking you just the the

the, the thousands of civilians are reportedly killed in the us reinforcement of southern dawson, which had previously be considered a safe start. meanwhile, the fallacy perpetrated by on miles can never justify the collective punishment of the policy and keep us on to answer all phase backlash. i me un security council off the washington vito's, a speech by resolution outside of the kind of types of moving 17000 thoughts and have already closed skylight hundreds of new cars, radi and manhattan, pointing for an immediate enter the war, altamont. the us government stopped supporting as well and it makes me very ashamed.