precisely, so i thought today would be the use of mazda non because so the be a piece in the long, i think, uh, is that it just this for the corporate. on to be a very good uh, citizen. last screen is that we just use because the sofa and um, the condo has well do a phone due to of any time, lots of amenities, the situation where that was done as i sleep on short notice sauces and a lot of things are happening. yeah, no schools, no to know what's on this monkey much fight and there's no just about all differences fighting for everybody by the action is this is i mean just this niger and government, often the slaves, separate his activities for the worst and security situation in the south east of my chair. yeah. it is not clear when the separate is trials. well resume. it is no longer a corporate issue is a political situation. how we can come to get as a bose to success, to a sick house or friendship with

a government. uh, a place to try to show the position of traditional and the students elect political offices was not going to get it to one voice. so that will come before us submissions. so i, that's just about it for now. he went on to you international, appreciate you sharing assigned with all of us here at the headquarters in moscow. it's cost turning into a busy day here at odds. so you will be back very soon with more of your world wide use. the was a blowing is something that is probably more complicated than it seems. i would venture to say that most of us would like to believe that we would blow the whistle on waste, fraud, abuse or illegality. if put in the position to do so. we were all probably raised

to tell the truth and to do the right thing. and i would say further that most of us went below the with. so if the issue were the protection of our children of babies. why then did it take one special woman to do just that? she's our next guest. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 yes, mean we're charging me is a food safety inspector, and a noted whistleblower. she studied chemistry and biology at the club. bernard university in the on france and food industry techniques at the university of mount ph before doing her ph. d. work in food technology at the university of law and she then worked as a research assistant at that same university in 1990 yes mean joined the world

health organization in geneva, where she became a scientific expert and director of food security and food aid. beginning in the year 2000, she served as corporate food safety manager and assistant vice president, responsible for food safety at the food giant. nestle per qualifications were impeccable in 2003 following a complaint from parents. yes, main proposed that the company withdraw from the market. baby biscuits being manufactured by nestle and beginning in 2006, she called for an audit on the toxicity of baby products in 2009, a large scale food poisoning, incident effect, and 300000 babies in china. 13 of whom died. this was after eating nestle, baby biscuits, the director of the offending group at nestle was promoted and became yes means manager. he took away her responsibilities and relegated her to menial tasks. and in 2010, she was fired. in march 2011, she filed a complaint against nestle with

a local court in switzerland for moral and psychological harassment. 9 years later, in 2020, the court finally found that she had indeed been harassed and intimidated. that was in what it called, an insidious matter. yes. mean will charge me joins us today. welcome to the show. yes. mean we're very happy to have you. thank you very much for your invitation. so pleasure. what a story. this is. yes. mean you tried for years to do the right thing, for the most part, nobody would listen to you. and then when babies began dying, they fired. you tell us how this whole thing started. what was it that 1st made you think that nationally as baby biscuits were dangerous and could actually kill children as well? um, i have to say that my story has 3 periods uh, in the 1st 5 years. uh, i noticed

a lot of dysfunctions and food safety management and uh, i tried to improve the situation. uh, the problem started at one of those persons managers who are responsible for some of those negligence is and that's the case. so for instance, maybe biscuits which i gave as an example, was promoted as my boss. and he started to retaliate against me. now the issue of the business goods, which i have given as an example of violations, but it's by far not the only case of dysfunction and violations that i experienced was that it basically consumers were complaining that the babies were suffocating and the baby became a blue red, and they had to turn the child upside down to get the biscuits out of the church and the child was suffocating. so with these consumer complaints, of course,

i us the project to be recalled or the day at the age of consumption to be increased. but by doing back protesting against this case, i was exposing and manager who was negligent and as was knowing that children by suffocating was putting the projects on the market. and so in 2006, uh, that's the 2nd period of my life is mostly and he became the director of quality management in the head office where i was working as the head of food safety. and he became my boss. and he started to retaliate as part of retaliation. he started to you immediately donate me really me harris me. but not only that, he several times in my work and prevented me from doing my job. and he gave also

wrong instructions force instructions. and this was instructions led to some other programs. and during the 2nd period of my life was mostly i started to do blue to blue. do wish so internally with the top management. and i did this for 4 years with the same temple as they were harrassing me. i was reporting to the top measurement which was going on. and the top management closed their eyes a just a note my reporting. instead they just pages and their supporters in my harassment and bullying. and i should also tell you that in switzerland, um dismissal is very easy. just you have to get 3 months salary and you can dismiss and it was so that's like what have dismissed me. they didn't like my

approach to food safety management, but they didn't, they decided to hire somebody to destroy me. and this mentally disorder, my carrier discredited me by the degree and then and again when the rest of the incidents which was happening for which i had one before the management became more and more guilty of negligence. and so the harassment continued to increase and it's finished with the fake investigation into my harassment. they refused to orders for food safety. and i found this to be unacceptable that they would refuse to audit our operations for food safety. and i asked them to fire me and they did this was that and does my 2nd period that was after 10 years i was fired. and then to,

to tell you it was when i started the lawsuit against mostly and this period the last of 12 years, i was fighting this blood for 12 years in cost. and during this period, they also suited back uh, i had several quotes and it was a long a flight and includes. and finally this year in 2923, i won a guess mostly. and the court going down. let's go for a, for an entity along horseman is destroyed my carrier. they also recognize that they made a fake investigation and they did not for the off my recent blowing report and to the top management of mislead me is to see you, the corporate governance. and the compliance manager in the early

part of the scheme, i estimate why do you think it was that the company did not pay attention to your warnings? was it that they were more worried about the bottom line where they're not safe guards in place to make sure that something like this didn't happen? what was it? well, and principal says there was on paper safeguards measures because yeah, the code of business conduct, which was the thing that you should be a staff should be reporting anything wrong that they see. they were saying there's only 2. and this was a system which was set up after the engine case. and so on paper we had the system . but the, uh, the system has use limitations. that means if i would report that some critics or stealing products, they would perhaps pull it up on my recent billing. but when someone is

reporting on miss doing of a superior and top manager was projected, then they will not fall off even if they had the life of consumer results. they and i should also say, there is, of course, the bottom line, but more important on the bottom line is their own bonus is their own bonus. because in 2005, that means a month, december 2005 and months before old. my trouble starts. my struggle starts in january 2006. misled top management has the link bonuses to project with rules. that means if you read the real products, you would get less bonus. so, so this is what i have. this is what caused that to be had the major outbreak of

for food poisoning in china and 20085300000 babies. got antics again to to the middle of mind. you should know that a year before this that has a similar incidents united states with pet pets, with intoxicated with patch woods, beach was got them knew that this minimize so in this land knew that there was the risk of milan, mine contamination. been room at 2 in china because in defense with incidence, digital material was coming from china. so let's go to new and i had issued an instruction that we should be monitoring a rule material for any emerging content and image the mind was but they didn't, they refused to do it as a result, a year later, they've got to do another intoxication. this time it's incense formula in china with an s slippage food. that's the sort of incense formula with contaminated has

been online. and they had to be through frontier market. they claimed netflix claim that the contamination was not a high level to a point that was caused intoxication. monday, if you to, into instigation to another company sent it to me. but i have evidence of from into and there was a need to email it, which was saying that nicely projects but also highly contaminated. so what's happening, ha, netscape height is going to immunization. i don't know because there was no profit investigation into netflix products. at that time. i was already billing the results for 3 years and that was really do is so. and the year after this incident, we had another incident in united states where $77.00 people got to elevate to

equal i 157 which is the killing the bacteria. and again, i had been a really new research for 3 years before this incident on 3 months before that i had been seeing the direct director of operation and asking this again for an audit of oral variations. and he just diffuse just views and they never the less they made this fake investigation into my harassment. and they dismissed me right after that. yes, mean we hear a lot from people on this show that the atmosphere for whistle blowers in switzerland is difficult. we hear that many switch companies are not punished for violating the law even after the whistle. blowers revelations, what happened to nestle after you went public and did anything change once the court found in your favor all those years later?

well, um 1st i answered the 2nd question. uh, nothing changed weaknesses. uh the proof is that it does just last year. and this led to another incidents we to the pizza read the same error as in the incidental vehicle. united states in 2009 was repeated induced, suzanne douglas. the flower was gone, terminated, and they didn't do anything. and they didn't even listen to employees who were in forging a lack of hygiene into factory and, and then just incident shopping. last year of 2 children died and 53 others got severely ill asked for life. you were speaking with was the blower? yes. mean, what charging me about her revelations, the baby biscuits manufactured by nestle resulted in the sickening of 300000

children and the depths of 13 of them in china. thank you. yes. mean, stay right there. we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to talk about the current environment for whistle blowers in europe. see to the. 2 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00]

the, i really thought that we were going to die and i crawled all the way to the right. and then i hid behind the board. and this is infinity to stick with the system. basically we want to make sure that certain too dangerous for a regular civilian shouldn't be in the hands of those people who are i think that's cool. speak no way to start the welcome back to the voice of lawyers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with yes, meeting with charging me about her whistle blowing in the food industry and the

protection of children. good to have you with us. he has mean thanks again. thank you to. yes, mean, i'd like to ask you about your court case, which you filed in the swiss can ton of vote. the court condemned nestle group for failing to protect you when you made your revelations. one of the things that came up in the media when you won that case was that this was parliament had really done nothing, substantive to protect whistle blowers in the country. we hear the same thing about this with banking industry. what can you tell us about changes that may have been made to protect whistle blowers know, even though i have been reaching writing to or toward his time and again, they just, um, it's miller. and i would say is even worse. because as you know, there is a international labor organization has established a convention against bullying and harassment adored by those have to work to,

to manage the only country who is refusing to rectify this convention. so they are differently not willing to protect to whistle blowers and worse, and this in switzerland uh harassment and bullying of the employees or was of numbers is sort of right that is allowed. i'm wondering too if nestle eventually addressed the problems that you revealed with your whistle blowing children died because of the toxicity in the baby biscuits. what changes did the company make after you blew the whistle? did they correct the situation? finally, and what happens with the families of the children? well, i but there is ever a story, as you know, there were the babies who suffocated with the biscuits. but because these babies were very small, 8 months old,

the pounds were next to them. i'm quick to take out the biscuit, so they didn't die. this bit, these babies didn't die. and so basically, the powers didn't to do much except a accept complaining to the company. on the other hand, there were some babies with died of choking the same problem, but to be done other products. and they some of them complain to quote, when to quote to in for us. and they also wonder case, but the compensation that they received was very, very little. it was basically almost nothing $100000.00. if you buy the $100000.00 and the, what you should notice is that it is, it was similar to run who died. and each time this leg didn't change,

i didn't learn any less than didn't change the product. so a year later and other charges a year later and other charges. and it's shawn, they say no, we are okay. we have done nothing wrong is the fools of is this world of desire essentially. and this is the same as in china where they are putting products on the market incidence formula on the market in violations of the 2 norm of china. when i reported the case to the court interested, then the reply of this claim was that this is the fault of regulatory authorities that they didn't have to ride the regulations. you have done nothing wrong to after nestle fired you wrongly. i my dad and you filed your court case, you became something of a, of a media personality. how did that affect your ability to find work? was the situation difficult for you?

what did you end up having to do to put food on the table or to pay your bills? well, uh, so what i should tell you is that i was to, to the traumatize actually to traumatize because, um, i was my, my wife was my passion. and i was really believing in my work and it was not only that this top management did nothing but my colleagues also kept silent and do shocked me tremendously. and i could not even hear anymore the word food safety. i was, i was very and my ties, i'm depressed by this experience. i couldn't even think of working anywhere else because of this news like this. how is it a f as well?

so that's was my feeling. but i never the less i have to apply for other jobs and i did, i tried to apply for jobs are the authorized as also that's myself. but there was something else which was happening. first of all, and that's led blacklist as me. and they had also told me this is that you will never get any more job in this field. the 2nd thing, they has also went through the my a dismissal by decide that i had the difference of opinion that my bus. so of course, uh wherever i would go, there was a okay, it, it, they would always thing that nestling doing because netflix, the big into a powerful and company. so they're right and perhaps my ideas are wrong. so with this statement, nobody would believe that i was confident i was doing my job properly.

so basically, i looked for a job for 4 years. i didn't get a new job. so for the 1st 2 years, i had an employment which helped me to survive. after that, i borrowed from my retirement fund moves. i hit save money for my retirement and i live with that. um um, the minimum of the expenses that i could manage. i, i live with that. uh, and i bought a little bit from my family and that's it. so that's how i supervise spending as much as i could and using my retirement fund. yes. mean after your whistle blowing and court case, you were honored by many different organizations for what you had done. what work are you doing now,

and what advice would you give other whistle blowers facing the same challenges that you faced? well, um, actually i just, i was dismissed in order to prove do that. so i am confident and about as my vision and specifically because issue was actually i talking my credit ability. uh, so i was and i published the silver books and that's a good idea. and in books on or food safety should be minor. so i basically put all my experience on the, in books. so for several years, i just continued publish articles and sharing my experience with duels, whether it's food, safety, management, or inverse of lowing or edit or in areas of justice or writing letters to or to reduce in order to raise the awareness. so basically,

we're the last toes years of been been reduced, this work my books and i got award united states on my end security and my books are being republished right now. so this is the work which i did, plus, advising, other whistle blowers. that means coaching other people in just the past, but um, my advice to this of lawyers, i usually listen to them and they evaluate the case. and i wrote it shows based on the situation that needs whether result blowing is the duty like it was mine. i was the gulf which was safety manager, as was responsible to blow the whistle. i was responsible to report to the 1st

thing i look is that are the responsible for ruling the resume or not like a, a, an auditor, a compliance manager. if we safety manager, they are responsible to be to do with the other the otherwise they may reliable. the 2nd i will look whether they have his family children. and if they have the potential to find another job and what do they do? they are to actually is this persecution that there was, they're sticky. they would have to go through lecture on where they're jo, supported by their families, which is their age watches, the resources can this survive if they don't find a job. so i will look at a number of criteria and based on that, i will give them advice of what they should do,

reminding them that their 1st responsibilities towards their family and children, to environments not society's, not supporting present miller's. i'd like to thank our guest. yes, mean we're charging me for joining us today and for sharing her story. and i'd like to thank our viewers. this is a show about whistle blowing, but sometimes the issue of whistle blowing overlaps with something even more important. protecting our children. they're the most vulnerable of all of us. they should be loved and taken care of physically and mentally. they should not be subject to illness even death, just because adults don't want to do their jobs. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 the

the more expensive, and i'm here to plan with you, whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please. i do have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm

probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the top headlines right now here, one of the international protests spock in tennessee, israel admit it has mistakenly killed 3 hostages, killed by hamas, and gaza off the wrongly identified them as military lockbox during the fighting should j a. d i. d. f mistakenly identified hostages as a threats. as a result, the soldiers fired at them and they were killed. southern images now from southern gauze, there was a camera man is killed in a correspondent, wounded as an hour. just 0 news crew are apparently hate admitting his riley strike on hun unit. past the 3 days of hawaii to formation, israel's army has withdrawn from the janine refugee camp, leaving i have