president general mohammed a breach debbie, acknowledged and to perpetrate a dynasty established by his late for the 33 years ago during occluded talk. of this selection, the yes can cause it seems to be the favorite because some of that to religion, large scale paper which eclipse, that one of know like i can see. but that's all for this, or would you be sure to check out oxy dot com for all of the latest breaking news on updates? and we'll see you right back here. the

hello and welcome across stuff were all things are considered. i'm peter a little bill printed about ukraine that makes the west delusional, senseless. and now right, dangerous, your brain will never be a member of nato. your plane will probably never be part of the european union. western pursuit of both goals has little to deal with ukraine, actually, but rather immensely on a hatred of russia. the to discuss these issues as moore, i'm joined by my guest george samuel way in budapest. he's a pod cast or at the capital which can be found on youtube and locals. and in merrill cash, we have martin jay. he is an award winning journalist and commentator. i gentleman across black roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it probably start out with george and in budapest. well, i so lensky and his regime got uh, a little bit of, uh, a,

i guess we can call public relations success. you know, the european union minus hungry, which victor, victor urban, went for a coffee, apparently, and then they passed, you know, this a world historic. go back. you know, the start the accession of ukraine into nato. well, yeah, it was a photo op if you know, they all got to sing come by. um, but it's basically my belief, meaningless at this point in, by the way, george gary and bill can vote a detail many more times down the road during this process. george, that's it. absolutely right. and it is a very interesting issue that you raise about this extraordinary emotional attachment to ukraine because your brain is, we know it's not a member of nato, it's not a member of the european union, and it has no, no real. you know, relationships with the rest of europe. and however, the leads in your,

of the leads in the united states just will not let this go. they will not say, well, they don't, you know, our interest of this. and then i'm sorry, but your brain isn't really a positive it's, but instead it's become this uh, this thing that live a upsets over and over and over again. they, the rates, anybody who descends wrong uh this uh they believe, to sacrifice everything for ukraine. and the question that you know of a brief bought of it is, is this in the heck of the hatred for russia, the need to do something about russia to destroy russia and, but otherwise, it's really the has, it has no, no real, you know, the rationale of for it, and again we see that, you know, among the public that is very little interest in this world, or kind of the public itself is or the baffled by what, why,

why we involved in this. and yet, when you listen to the television pundits, is there something about this, or anybody who's not on board, for all the way with ukraine, is somehow a marine reprobate, extraordinary phenomenon? yeah, well i'm, i don't know if it, we've seen a change in the discourse as long as it takes is more into it so long as we can. okay, i don't, i don't know how many people notice that, but you know, martin, you come from a country that was in the european union. and so what is the value added for the european union to have a country like ukraine, where everybody else is paying their bills, their, their and their economic vitality is not even worth mentioning at this point. it's a country on the global goal. and because emily and still, you know, there's something that you,

we've talked about many times before. i don't know why anyone is talking about like you grades future because the present hasn't completely played itself out, that will create that future. so why does the european union that already has a lot of problems want to bring in a bigger because it always thinks bigger is better. and when i was in brussels in 2004 and i witnessed the 1st expansion volt, eastern european countries, then there was a huge euphoria of this idea that the bigger we get, the further we spread some more influence. we have the bigger a play we own the world stage and i think, you know, you kind was a bridge too far. i think it was just one last countries up to your opinion and probably didn't need it. so it didn't due to the baggage that came with it, but the, but that the sweetener that i suppose for the, for the west was it was an opportunity to hit russia and we know now, you know, we, we discussed on the show now 4 months about the, the, the 1st opportunity of a piece talks in a stumble where zalinski is lot, basically shrugged their shoulders and says, look with,

we've been off with no bad deal by russia. and boris johnson was flown in just a couple of the whole things it no way. so way we identified this is a great opportunity when they were going to get another shot like this and headed to us on the plate. so the whole story about to come up to a point is what about windows and loses at the beginning, the west, nate? so i'm a, you saw ukraine is a wonderful way to promote itself to shine, to, to seem, to be so much bigger and more prolific. that everything it does, and now we're looking at the losing scenario. now your crime is becoming an embarrassment and reliability. because if we carry on pulling money into this black hole in there, where would it take us bite and may well not be re elected because of it? you know, the tory government in the you k, my full european union has of selections next june of 2024. it may well for the 1st time it's history of a majority of 4, right? i mean piece and here being part of which would be absolutely amazing. you know, so we now looking at ukraine as this recall,

citizens often child who would actually really like to get rid of, you know, because it's really becoming such a liability. but there was still this romantic inclination, this attachment to your crime, but you know, we might get so that we might just get through to the end. and i'm and raise this child properly and give him a future. but it's not looking good. is it particularly with an eventful yeah it's, it's very interesting charge. i mean, they talk about to month actually have to say they talk less less about democracy over the last half year. because you clean isn't really one anymore and isn't going to have elections of the ads and have opposition parties. it's attacking the church, left right and center. but, you know, going back to the, the european union's grass to expand here. okay. okay. which are the one for coffee and then they, you know, it was basically an extension, but he didn't beat joe money. and that's what really matters. and all of this year,

you know, the photo ops everyone patting each other on the back. so put a black up somewhere, but now is the great philosopher bob. dylan's money doesn't talk it screens george . so let's try it. on the other hand, or by him is a do make of like, like other politicians. he got a nice chunk of change. i mean, money, right? hungry was entitled to he got the 10000000000 euros that i things sweetened the deal for him. and that's why he was willing to go along with this. um, uh, deal with um, uh my crown and shoulds, whereby he would leave the room and then just as he left the room for the coffee, i get it right. everybody get the boat. and so that's the best way to go for the champion of this, the 20000000000 euros that he's owed. so we'll see what he might do to get those points to george. apropos, apropos is really interesting. i was looking at some of the mainstream coverage of

it all and wrote about good friend, new vladimir, put them, they always have to cross the brand of the kremlin co. it's all that's now is to stick that. and i always find that interesting. heard about, he's elected how many times george 4 times and arrived from 9 slides. yeah. and okay. i guess some people like him there. okay. but. but it's really interesting, you know, how they were, he is a black mailer. and what's the worst thing you do to a blackmail you'll give in? because you'll come back over and oh, perfect. so you said describe okay. i think he waited modest really got what do you want it? george would follow the spot that. yeah, exactly. whether you know or by and has many enemies within the b u and all the leading political blocks in the european parliament road lead to so last week to the european commission, don't give around anything, don't give them release them, them and yours. nothing, nothing. because as he said, he's a blackmail or, you know, you don't, you'll come back for more. so, uh, is it going to get those additional 20000000000 yours?

i think, you know, it's going to be quite a challenge for him. the problem is, but, you know, again, it goes back to this emotional attachment, is that, well, that's just more about and that's one out of 27. the question is, why did the other 26 go along with this? what you will, what? what's that, what then, what does they think they getting out of the same way? you know, we got the, uh, the, the baffling congress over the over the budget. you know, giving a 61000000000 for ukraine. i mean, the median for late, the republicans that revolting horrible republicans refusing to give, give you cream what of what he needs. but all the republicans, it's only a small percentage of them that i'll being of during the have in order into the influence. because republicans have such a small majority, but the big deal is, is, well, why does 90 percent of congress actually want to give the $61.00 bill? and there's only about 10 percent of congress comprised by these. uh, i'll give up republicans that will be difficult. 90 percent want to do it?

why what, what do they think they getting out of it? what's really interesting is, you know, martin, the you know, is talking about that small country of republicans. they are in a way, i suppose the secretly on their bed stand. they have a little, they have a portrait into lensky because the lensky will maybe help bring about securing the american southern border. who knew how valuable he could be for pur, uh, american conservative. go ahead. one. that's a huge question, isn't that when it was a dispute, a issue, you know, becomes the deal breaker for opening up more checks, more a greatest lease of ministry from america? not at the moment where setting our shoulders wondering, you know, what's gonna happen next? lisa volpe zalinski himself, who got on the plane and went back to kiff with a very, very heavy heart. i mean, put yourself in his shoes. you know, he has to go back unto his co is does,

he doesn't have ministers and senior ministry. if it goes, i've got no more money for you. the rackets up, you know, and what are those? i mean, i think what we'll see now in the finance, he's called the rain man. well, the rain isn't coming anymore, the rain's not coming anymore. so what happens to those people who won't have their, their own personal economies? they've got people to pay this. well, this is how corruption works. you know, i think there was several scenarios which you might see on folder the next few weeks or a couple of months. it may well be that one or 2 of those individuals might leave the country. but i think, come the pressure on this lensky to step down, will start to increase because many of those individuals will be looking at the situation so can get no more money. nothing is coming in. now. if we were to go for peace and then let the e win with reconstruction aids that will give us access to a whole lot more money in the future, we can set up fake and chose. we create lots of fake construction companies. that's

how we could cream off the topic. and so the pressure will always be the financial argument. but lensky is, i seems to me to be hang on like a thread. i mean, there's a number of americans genres. now writing opinion pieces as a, uh, making references to is, is commander in chief. and so as a possible take, you know, as opposed to a new leader to take to replace him. so this is new tone now, which we're seeing from the west is from western coming types is that, you know, is, is days and i'm, but there's not much more like, i mean, like you said, you wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but to charge i mean, you know, the thing is that, you know, is a lensky ukraine. they are like they, the media likes to pick them, is victims. i could understand that you would brief, but they are volunteers in all of this. and this is what's really peculiar is that they volunteer. you gentlemen, have been talking about the financial necessities here. nobody's talking about the death toll in ukraine. ok. they're talking about how much money they can make. okay

. i usually don't. and the program on a question, and then we go to the break, but gentlemen, we're going to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on your credit today. parking the, the world domestic prospect where all things are

considered on peter la bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing ukraine, the let's go back to georgia in budapest, georgia. the pod cast a few days ago we've. we've looked at the garage of the articles from legacy media, you know, the atlantic and was a washington post, etc, etc. how the return of trump is, is, you know, he's a dictator in waiting though he was already president, then he wasn't the dictator. but, you know, we figured that after that, then there's another stream going on. is a rush. this guy, how in los is staggering, was the word, okay. staggering. 83 percent, 85 percent of it's of it's a manpower has been handled, you know, they will kill ratio is, you know, what forever you cleaning it's 10 russian hill this over and over again. okay. and

i saw it all across main screen here. so george crane is, is winning me, you know, it's up, it's almost done. but george, but after ukraine, russia is going to invade colon, and it's going to go into german. how can these 2 stories exist the same time? cause i do the best, right? because this was the time the, the story about the 90 percent of the russian mom 5 has been wiped out by ukraine. which apparently of the findings of us intelligence, the leak, the media easily. a report of this was released in time for us to lensky is visit. see, this has been visuals, money well spent. we did a great the great job giving him all of this money. we need to give him more. but then that was the, the other story, and this is being peddled by the, by the ministration, including, especially by biting the himself. which is that,

if we don't give the ukraine what a once russia will win this war. and what happens then is that russia, well, fred, nato, and therefore the united states will be directly involved in a shooting war with russia. and now this has been put forward in a paper by the institute for the study of war, which is the go to source for, you know, the legacy media in new york. and i was always like, it was quoted to use the google study well by, you know, this is another kegan's out that this is frederick day and which is robin akins bravo. and so, so that of that argument is that russia is now on the bring a complete victory is going to occupy the entirety of uh, your brain. and therefore it will immediately be threatening poland the baltic states. and this is a very serious situation for, for the nato is a, this is the worst situation we've been since the 1990 is when we have the massive.

so yet the forces of to do the ease. so this is the new line, which is that, well, if we don't give you brain, what are the ones we're going to be facing a, it's a style in the red army in no time. and so, you know, you're buying these, do, i don't know what is the same kind of argument in 1975 on, you know, funding cambodians and i was supposed to be, i mean the same car. oh, it's called a dog. very, almost very good. but i mean, this is just, this is absurd here. and you'll hear in plus, you know, we have one point, you know, nato is not involved in this complex. but nato is now means to be point to get involved in this company, which they already are. i mean that there's so many layers of this don't make any sense. i mean, i mean it's like 5 dimensional chest without the pieces. go ahead. yeah, it doesn't make any sense. the only thing that makes sense is the button is word is worried about his own legacy and his own reelection bed. and you know,

we mentioned on the show previously about the, the celebrations, pennsylvania for nate. so next june to 75th best. so it's gonna be pretty difficult for nate to invite him to stand up there and, and you know, watch the fireworks into the city handshakes when ukraine is just such as offices. and so i think something has to be done and they are really scratching that really, really scraping the barrel now looking for possible solutions. i think the membership saying, you know, hilarious as it was. i think as a token measure to keep the markets up the moment and also a media, a distraction to, to pick a story. which is, you know, obviously the ukraine is thinking and by the time it, by the time the dust settles, i mean i also site visit. so that is his wife who was misquoted by the economist this week. she said, i really don't want my husband to just stand the 2nd time as president. now what she read, he met this, what she really meant was if we ever get to the situation where we have free and

fair elections and that means that will reserve then in this scenario in 5 years, 10 years 20. this time, i wouldn't more or less than to stand again, but you know, what's going to happen? i think, in, in ukraine, as i said, i mentioned earlier is i think confidence crisis is emerging presidents themselves . and i think that may will suit the button administration if he can be convinced him to step aside and move out. there are actually does an intelligence officer. apparently, the american intelligence obviously is going on line leaked documents, papers proving that the blood demonstration is actually prepared, some sort of us citizenship full of those landscape. now whether those papers are fake or not, i don't know, they've been backs up, but at least one c i a officer that i've read about, they said they look pretty genuine. they say set him up with a home in florida with maximum security. so you can imagine so, you know, that's a possibility. i'm not just the grace of me and i'm, you know, i'll bet to that. i haven't seen it before. it's made it. is

a government in exile or is it just the payoffs? no, no. i think it's a, it's an x, so deal where they give them, you know, maximum production. and another also is going, i mean, george, i'm sorry, i'm gonna say the obvious here. so he's been residing in, in t of now for the last 2 years. and he's lived okay, but because of the style he may be killed in florida, who's going to do that job and sent me the russians could have killed them anytime they want to. i mean, they, they have 30 of the landscape flying around the world. i mean, you know, and the airport is that the tax, the obviously needs to be re, for the russian side, zelinski as an asset. net. but you know, because of the antics ok. it's worth the, it's worth very well. but if he goes to florida, he could be, have his life threatened, we'll never would threaten them there. and it wouldn't be the russians, george. no, the that's right. i just, the thing is the before the americans. i, i have to say that, i mean we, we've talked about, you know, they the,

all the money drying up and so on. but i think ultimately they will come up with some money. they then the 61000000000, not invest on that but isn't them. but they're working on a deal, i mean they're sitting there in the oh, she aging. oh, i'm just going to get to the going to get him something that, you know, there's obviously some dealing the worst may not happen before christmas. um, but it may happen in, in january the americans have invested a great deal in the ukraine. then i'll just go to a band and it's just not the way the americans operate. they could, they gonna try and get well after 20 years. they did an up, candice, them about 20 years. 20 years. i mean that was a, that's a big. it took a long time for them to, to a bad the rush. it isn't the taliban in this game, right? no. okay, exactly, but that's why this isn't for them. they still regard this as a good investment because again, even $61000000000.00 a lot of money. um. but it's nothing. it's bucket change for the united. so it went to, to split the difference,

but the difference is with the difference. keep it going until the election. agreed . i don't think so. and the very least at the very least. ok, martin jumping now does agree a bit both of you to a crate of goodness that i think so let's, he's going to be pushed out by the, by the ministration of deal is going to be struck and it's going to be going out possibly before the may so best a replacement and the mil military way already is a home to military man. i mean probably, i mean that's, that's the most likely scenario isn't it? is that the, the commander in chief himself will, will take care of it. he seems to be popular and he seems to be effective. one of the solution is actually the final result. i thought guys might get, what was the deal be then what, what, what was the fine, i mean, okay, you replacing by solution is in what, what's the deal in the short term? some sort of, uh, almost some sort of seats far then. and then longer negotiations off of the roman martin is the russian. so i'd have to agree to that. yeah, yeah. well,

if they got no agreement to the fact that he was replaced and a different tactic, a different policy. okay. how about the trustees? no peace, no more. yeah, well, no, i, i think the pizza is very small guy. he's not going to but you know, if he sees a change see change on the american side. and he sees the possibility of back channel and talks to work out some sort of informal, almost as way keeps what he's gonna already know, negotiation whatsoever for those territories are already taken. you know, i know nato deal. he may well be happy with that. he may not need so how's that, how does that know that the feed for russia? because then you've got a, a rum state ukraine that will be scooped up into native. i mean, they gonna do it in the for the 75th, but they bought the law say, well, what's left of ukraine? what the, what the pot, the russian has them taken. okay, is going to be a member of nature. so how does not know the defeat for us? it also is, i'm not sure it's great to see it. i mean it, it, it, it stops the war i think boots and once that i think he wants some solution to the

longer term. the point about some is k, and i think peter was actually right. so let's, he is an s to pitch and because i think kitchen definitely wants, let's get to be around to sign the final deal because that's what give it, that's what will give it max from could have been seen anything, not a book before. he could even sign a d o r b in florida. okay. i that's, that's fine. these pieces don't work for me. okay. again. and george the, the problem with so much of this, um, uh, creating a hypothesis for a ceasefire for an end of the call. like very often even people there is very kind of sympathetic to wanting to end. if they never, they almost never take into account with russia, how russia would react, okay, rushes tend to driving see bright. now, why would it change course? no, i, i agree with you and, and i think that will give us that many times that this war is not about land. so the idea that he's gonna say, you'll be happy with, say,

taking 20 percent of your brain or with the rushes or choose something that wasn't really an objective that wasn't what lee. the whole purpose of the circle is best for military operation work. it was to ensure that ukraine was not a member of nato that's, that's the part that's the rush i have to secure. and that's why, in the sense these doomsday scenarios, by the, into that you 1st of the was, have a sort of logic to live because they've kind of figure out, this is russian subject to rushes objective is that ukraine, you know, basically will not be about a mate, the ukraine will be in russia is all that, and that has to be the ultimate objective of russia. it's just if they, oh, they get a bit of territory. but the rest of ukraine is a member of nato. then you'd have to say, well then what is the war chines? all right, but let me, i'll shoot you a question if i can just show me that because you asked me want to to, to, to, to find to find one back a 2. what happens in this present some, all right, how does the present status quote continue? you know, you're looking at in the last 6 months, estimates of

a 120000. you claim troops killed, you know, the lens because popularity under question. you know, the country is fully unfolding. we don't see a quick fix militarily from the west, you know, so, so very well talking about getting a to some point, but some how does things, how do you see the next 6 months and you fine? 20 seconds george. well i, i think ultimately russia has to push forward for a victory. i think the going to be no other goals but essentially topple the regime in care of and, and get us a every seems as that will work out some kind of a deal with russia and also, i think will not be a success. okay, i'm going to just put a pause on this because we'll continue this discussion next week. i want to thank my guess americans in budapest, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc. and next time, remember, pass up rules the

i think it will have chevy and it shows the patient unix. but then you put the well in just the cut border, appreciate it. but if you're doing your dose, but then you would just give them a long shot to the left of selling so that you probably need to. so so, so that's where, you know, view them. steve is just a little bit slow. so no controlling the sensor only has a visual of moving in. but i do have to make sure that people come to you have little really so frustrated with as much. it's gonna get to play the show you different. there's not 1 may assist you more and when you do it and gets insurance and which the technology you can throwing up at the let's just sponsor suspicious go out. i don't know if it was a go or you know, of course the just going to put in the

good thing is done with this or fix it on this was was if the control so sort of the, the 1941 with the nazis help relation ultram nationalist, the was dashes, the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly on the seizing power, they billed the same events, concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dashes used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us come with a renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send in the concentration camps. so most of them died 6 was

incredible genocide. the, the, the idea of strikes hit a maternity ward in southern garza killing one child and wounding several others that says that that sold in the region has the past 19000. we have some witnesses unable from anata. we went up stairs from the maternity words very quickly, and so people screaming on the 2nd floor for 2 rooms worth it. what i saw was one person in piece is another person, mr. joe, being injured or all children of the human rights watch accused, is israel abusing starvation as a weapon of war against the people of gaza? so the academic month so on his ok, please as well as deliberately blocking, getting to monitor.