old and well or bond decided to slip out the door for the boat itself. when german chancellor all off, schultz stood up and suggested that form on top of the side for a bit to show is objection. while the rest of the block voted unanimously, you know, what is it even better way to show your objection? no, actually voting to your objection for there's also the other issue of hungry refusing to unblock more you funds for ukraine, which really kills the unity buys that the block is constantly trying to draw. i'm not particularly around and crane. so democratic is they are, some folks in brussels are now making noise about finding a way to exclude descent from vote altogether. we are working very hard, of course to have a result of wednesday's an agreement of 27 members states. but i think it is now also necessary to work on potential alternatives to have an

operational solution in case that a, an agreement by 27. so you and i need meet is not possible. well, that sounds super democratic don't like the results even though it just find a way around it saying that what could happen instead of voting you budget cash for ukraine is that states now could contribute to a fund for ukraine voluntarily, past the hot around. so to speak, so they can all spend their own citizens, money and on fun, can't stop them, which totally isn't going to make it citizens of all the other countries. wonder why their own leaders are putting the bill to their own seemingly endless economic document when it's entirely optional because or bon wouldn't be. so now the western process, quoting and you diplomats, who are talking about the blog potentially applying. and you tracy provision that would allow hungry to be stripped of its voting rights for violating you

legislation. and it just totally doesn't sound like course and or anything. no, not to mention corrupt. anyway, the criminal and didn't miss a chance to chime in on all this latest you drama. you hungry is a southern country. it has its own interest. and unlike many european countries in defense, them quite family. our president said that one shouldn't think that hungry and a number of other countries that defend the interest pro russian. they're just independent enough to do so. we read with great interest reports about the decision making practices into you. well, someone is out for a coffee, it is a unique practice. unique practice is called democracy in action. don't you know? or at least that's what they keep telling us. good thing for the you, that democracy isn't actually anywhere to be found in brussels. otherwise, it might have something to say for itself, at least until they figured out how to convince it to step out of the hall for a bathroom break. so they can sideline it. let's see,

the club has got some really interesting. so as we chose to check those out, we'll be back at the top of the hour with the latest news updates. we have to join us then the the hello and welcome across stuff were all things are considered. i am peter little bill, visit about your cream that makes the west delusional, senseless and now right, dangerous, your claim will never be a member of nato. your plane will probably never be part of the european union. western pursuit of both goals has little to deal with ukraine actually, but rather immensely on its hatred of russia.

the to discuss these issues as moore, i'm joined by my guest george samuel way in budapest. he's a pod cast or at the congo, which can be found on youtube and locals. and in merrill cash, we have martin jay, he is an award winning journalist and commentator, gentleman across black roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate it. probably start out with george and in budapest. well, i the lensky and his regime got uh, a little bit of, uh, a, i guess we can call public relations success. you know, the european union minus hungry, which big victor urban, went for a coffee, apparently. and then they passed, you know, this a world historic go back, you know, this start the accession of ukraine into nato. well, yeah, it was a photo op. it, and, you know, they all got to sing come by. um,

but it's basically quite believe meaningless at this point. and by the way, george gary instead bill can vote detail many more times down the road during this process. george, that's absolutely right. and it is a very interesting issue that you raise about this extraordinary emotional attachment to ukraine because your brain is, we know it's not a member of nato, it's not a member of the european union. it has no, no real, you know, relationships with the rest of europe. and however, the leads and your of the leads in the united states just will not let this go. they will not say, well, they don't, you know, our interest of this. and then i'm sorry, but ukraine isn't really a positive it's, but instead it's become this uh, this thing that, but there's a obsess over and over and over again. they, the rates, anybody who descends wrong uh this uh, they believe,

to sacrifice everything for ukraine. and the question that you know, of a brief bought of it is, is this, in the heck of the hatred for russia, the need to do something about russia to destroy russia and, but otherwise, it's really the, it has, it has no, no real, you know, the rationale for it, and again we see that, you know, among the public that is very little interested in this world, or kind of the public itself is sort of baffled by what, why, why we involved in this. and yet, when you listen to the television pundits just the politicians and anybody who's not on board phone, all the way with ukraine is somehow a marine reprobate, extraordinary phenomenon. yeah, well i'm, i don't know if it, we've seen a change in the discourse as long as it takes is marked into it so long as we can.

okay, i don't, i don't know how many people notice that, but you know, martin, you come from a country that was in the european union of so what is the value added for the european union to have a country like ukraine, where everybody else is paying their bills their, their, their economic vitality is not even worth mentioning at this point. it's a country on the global goal. and because emily and still, you know, there's something that you, we've talked about many times before. i don't know why anyone is talking about your grades future because the present hasn't completely played itself out that will create that future. so why does the european union that already has a lot of problems want to bring in a bigger because it always thinks bigger is better. and when i was in brussels in 2004, when i witnessed the 1st expansion of old eastern european countries, then there was a huge euphoria of this idea that the bigger we get,

the further we spreads and more influence. we have the bigger a play we own the world stage and i think, you know, you kind was a bridge too far. i think it was just one of those countries of europe and union probably didn't need it. so it didn't new to the package that came with it, but the, but that the sweetener that i suppose for the, for the west was it was an opportunity to hit russia. and we know now, you know, we discussed on the show now 4 months about the, the, the 1st opportunity of a piece talks in a stumble where savanski is not basically shrugged their shoulders and says, look, we've been offered not a bad deal by russia. and lawrence johnson was flown in scope of the whole thing. is it no way so way we're going to fight. this is a great opportunity. we're never going to get another shot like this. i'm just headed to us on a plate. so the whole story about to come back to a point. so what about when does and loose is at the beginning, the west, nate? so i'm a, you saw ukraine is a wonderful way to promote itself to shine, to,

to seem, to be so much bigger and more prolific. that everything it does. and now we're looking at the losing scenario. now, you're kind of becoming an embarrassment and reliability. because if we carry on pouring money into this black hole in there, where will it take us bite and may well not be re elected because of it, you know, the tory government, the u. k. my full european union has these selections, next june of 2024. it may well for the 1st time in his history of a majority of 4, right. i mean piece, nearby and palmer which would be absolutely amazing. you know, so we now looking at ukraine as this recall systems often child who would actually really like to get rid of, you know, because it's really becoming such a liability. but there is still this romantic inclination, this attachment to your crime. but uh, you know, we might get so that we might just get through to the end and i'm, and raise this child properly and give him a future. but it's not looking good. is it particularly when any event slow?

yeah, it's, it's very interesting charge. i mean, they talk about to month actually have to say they talk less, less about democracy over the last half year. because ukraine isn't really one anymore and isn't going to have elections as and have opposition parties. it's attacking the church, left right and center. but, you know, going back to the european union's uh, grass to expand here. okay. okay. mr. arbor, one for coffee. and then the, you know, it was basically an extension, but he did veto money. and that's what really matters. and all of this year, you know, the photo ops everyone patting each other on the back to put a black up somewhere. but now is the great philosopher bob dylan said money doesn't talk it screens george. so let's try it on the other hand, or by him is a, do you make of like, like other politicians. he got a nice chunk of change. i mean, money, he's right under he was entitled to,

he got the 10000000000 euros that i things sweeten. the deal for him and that's why he was willing to go along with this. um, uh, deal with um, uh my crown and shoulds, whereby he would leave the room and then just as he left the room for the coffee, i get it right. everybody get the boat and so that's the best way to go for the time being that that's the 20000000000 euros that he's owed. so we'll see what he might do to get those points to george. apropos at the probably is really ex, the i was looking at some of the mainstream coverage of it all and wrote about good friend, new vladimir, put them. they always have to like look, brand of the kremlin tal. it's all that they always stick that in. i always find that interesting. i heard about, he's elected how many times towards 4 times in a row, landslides yeah, okay. i guess the people can there. okay. but, but it's really interesting, you know, how they, we, he's, he's on blackmail or what's the worst thing you do to a blackmail you've given because you'll come back over and over. so he said,

describe okay, i think he pointed mass really got what do you want to george? that's what followed the by the exactly whether you know, or by has many enemies within the b u and all the leading political blocks in the european parliament wrote letters last week to the european commission. don't give around anything, don't give them these them them and yours. nothing. nothing. because as he said, he's a black man like, you know you'll, you'll come back for more. so in the depth of additional $20000000000.00 yours. i think, you know, it's going to be quite a challenge for him. the problem is, but, you know, again, it goes back to this emotional attachment, is that, well, let's just go about and that's one out of 27. the question is, why did the other 26 go along with this? what you will, what, what's the next one then? what does they think they getting out of the same with, you know, we got the, uh, the, the baffling congress over the over the budget. you know,

giving the 61000000000 for ukraine, i mean the media for late. the republicans revolting, horrible republicans refusing to give, give you cream what of what he needs. but all the republicans is only a small percentage of them that i'll being of during the have in order under the influence. because republicans have such a small majority. but the big deal is, is, well, why does 90 percent of congress actually wants to give the $61.00 bill is only about 10 percent of congress. it comprised by these of europe. republicans that are being difficult, 90 percent want to do it. why, what, what do they think they getting out of it? what's really interesting is, you know, martin, the, you know, is talking about that small cadre of republicans. they are in a way, i suppose, the secretly, on their bed. stan, they have a little, they have a portrait. and so lensky because the lensky will maybe help bring about securing the american southern border. who knew how valuable he could be for per, per

a american conservative. go ahead. one. that's a huge question, isn't it? when it was a dispute, an issue, you know, becomes the deal breaker for opening up more checks, more. a great to slice of ministry from america, not at the moment where we're shutting out shoulders wondering, you know, what's going to happen next lease of goals. lensky himself. who got on a plane and went back to us with a very, very heavy heart. i mean, put yourself in his shoes. you know, he has to go back unto his co is does, he doesn't have ministers and senior ministry. if it goes, i've got no more money for you. the rockets up, you know, and what are those? i mean, i think what we'll see now in the finance is called the rain man. well, the rain isn't coming anymore. the rain's not coming in, and we'll say what happens to those people who don't have their, their own postal economies, they've got people to pay as well. this is how corruption works. you know,

i think there was several scenarios which you might see unfold in the next few weeks or a couple of months. it may well be that one or 2 of those individuals might leave the country. but i think, come the pressure on this to lensky to step down, will start to increase because many of those individuals will be looking at the situation. so can we put no more money? nothing's coming in. now, if we would go for peace and then let the e, when with reconstruction aids, that will give us access to a whole lot more money in the future, we can set up fake and chose we create lots of fake construction companies that so we could cream off the topic and so the pressure will always be the financial argument. but lensky is, i seems to me to be hang on like a thread. i mean, there's a number of americans, john is now writing opinion pieces as a, uh, making read. this is to, is, is commander in chief and so as a possible take it, you know, as opposed to a new lead to, to take, to replace him. so this is new tone now,

which we're seeing from the west this from west and come in cases that you know is, is days and them, but it's not much more difficult. i mean, you said you wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but to charge. i mean, you know, the thing is that, you know, it is a lensky ukraine. they are like they, the media likes to pick them, is victims. i can understand that to a degree, but they are volunteers in all of this. and this is what's really peculiar, isn't they volunteer? you gentlemen, have been talking about the financial necessities here. nobody's talking about the death toll in ukraine. ok. they're talking about how much money they can make, okay. i usually don't end the program on a question and then we go to the break. but gentlemen, we're going to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on your credit today party the

welcome. after prospect were all things are considered on peter level? this is the home addition to remind you were discussing ukraine. the let us go back to georgia in budapest, georgia. the pod cast a few days ago we've, we've looked at the garage of the articles from legacy media, you know, the atlantic and was watching, impose etc, etc. how the return of trump is, is, you know, he's a dictator in waiting though he was already president, then he wasn't the dictator. but, you know, we figured that out yet. but then there's another stream going on. is a rush. this guy telling last is staggering. was the word okay, staggering. 83 percent, 85 percent of it's of it's a man power has been build, you know, the kill ratio is you know, what forever you claim its 10 russian hill this over and over again. okay. and i

saw it all across main screen here. so george crane is, is winning, you know, it's, it's almost done. but george, but after ukraine, russia is going to invade colon, and it's going to go into germany. how can these 2 stories exist the same time? cause i do this right, because this was the time the, the story about the 90 percent of the russian mind, bob has been wiped out by ukraine. which apparently of the findings of us intelligence, the leak, the media easily. a report of this was released in time for the landscape visit. see this as being visuals, money well spent. we did a great the great job giving him all of this money. we need to give him more. but then that was the, the other story. and this is being peddled by the, by the ministration, including, especially by biting the himself, which is that if we don't give the ukraine what

a once russia will win this war. and what happens then is that russia will freaking nato, and therefore the united states will be directly involved in a shooting war with russia. and now this has been put forward in a paper by the institute for the study of war, which is the go to source for, you know, the legacy media in new york. and i was always like, it was quoted to use the google study well by, you know, this is a, is another kegan's out that this is frederick day. and which is robin akins bravo or, and so, so that of that argument is that russia is now on the bring a complete victory is going to occupy the entirety of your brain. and therefore you will immediately be threatening poland the baltic states. and this is a very serious situation for, for the nato. is that this is the worst situation we've been since the 1990 is when we have the massive. so yet the forces a to do the ease. so this is the new line,

which is the well, if we don't give you brain what are the ones we're going to be facing the, the style in the red army and they know time it, so you know, you know, the business buying these do, i don't know, is the same kind of argument in 1975 on, you know, funding, cambodia, and inside sales be, i mean the same car. oh, it's called a dog very almost. but i mean, this is just, this is absurd year, annually. and plus, you know, one point, you know, nato is not involved in this complex, but nato is now means to be boys to get involved in this company, which they already are. i mean, there's so many layers of this don't make any sense. i mean, i mean it's like 5 dimensional chests without the pieces. go ahead. yeah, it doesn't make any sense. the only thing that makes sense is the binding is word. he's worried about his own legacy and his own reelection bed. and you know, we mentioned on the show previously about the, the celebrations,

pennsylvania for nate. so next june to 75. so it's gonna be pretty difficult for me to invite them to stand up there and, and you know, watch the fireworks and do the silly handshakes when ukraine is just such as aust design. and so i think something has to be done, and they all really scratching that really, really scraping the barrel now looking for a possible solutions listing the membership saying, you know, hilarious as it was. i think i took the measure to keep us up the moment and also the media a distraction to, to pick a story. which is, you know, obviously the ukraine is thinking and by the time it, by the time the dust settles, i mean, i feel slight visit. so that is his wife who was misquoted by the economist this week. she said, i really don't want my husband to just stand the 2nd time as president. now what she read, he met this, what she really meant was if we ever get to the situation where we have free and fair elections and that means that will result of then in this scenario,

in 5 years, 10 years 20. this time, i wouldn't more last been to stand again, but you know, what's going to happen? i think in, in ukraine, as i said, i mentioned earlier is i think confidence crisis is emerging presidents themselves . and i think that may will suit the button administration if he can be convinced him to step aside to move out. there are actually does an intelligence officer. apparently, the american intelligence obviously is going on line leaked documents, papers proving that the blood demonstration is actually prepared. some sort of us citizenship full as us. that's k. now whether those papers are fake or not, i don't know, they've been backs up, but at least one c i officer that i read about. they said they look pretty genuine . if they set him up with a home in florida with maximum security. so you can imagine so, you know, that's a possibility. i'm not just the grace of me and i'm, you know, i'll bet to that. i haven't seen it before. it's made it. is a government in exile or is it just the payoffs?

no, no. i think it's a, it's an ex l deal where they give them, you know, maximum production and another always going. i mean, george, i'm sorry, i mean, i say the obvious here. so he's been residing in, in care of now for the last 2 years. and he's lived okay, but the because of the style he may be killed in florida, who's going to do that job and send me the russians could have killed them anytime they want it. i mean, they, they have 30 of the landscape flying around the world. i mean, you know, and the airport is a tax, they obviously needs to be written for the russian side. zelinski as an asset. net, but you know, because of the antics ok. it's worked but it's worked very well. but it, because of florida, he could be, have his life threatened, we'll never would threaten them there. and it wouldn't be the russians, george, no event. and that's right. i just, the thing is the before the americans. i, i have to say that, i mean we, we've talked about, you know, they, the, all the money drying up and so on. but i think ultimately they will come up with

some money. they've in the 61000000000, not good. that's not on that, but isn't them, but they're working on a deal. i mean they're sitting there in the oh, she aging. oh, i'm just going to get that. going to get him something that you know, there's obviously some dealing the worst may not happen before christmas. um, but it may happen in, in january the americans have invested a great deal in the ukraine. then i'll just go to a band and it's just not the way the americans operate. they could, they gonna try and get well after 20 years. they did an up, candice, them about 20 years. 20 years. i mean that was a, that's a big. it took a long time for them to a to a bad the rush. it isn't the taliban in this game? right? no worries. okay, good, exactly. but that's why this isn't for them. they still regard this as a good investment because again, even $61000000000.00 a lot of money. um. but it's nothing is bucket change for the united snow in went to just split the difference, but the difference is with the difference. keep it going until the election. great

. it makes sense. and the very least, the very least. okay. part in jumping now does agree a bit both of you to a crate of goodness that i think. so let's, he's going to be pushed out by the button. ministration deal is going to be struck and he's going to be going out possibly before the ne, so the stay warner placements in the middle of a military way already is a home to military man. i mean, probably, i mean that's, that's the most likely scenario isn't it? is that the, the commander in chief himself will what will take of a seems to be popular and he seems to be affected. what were the solution exactly? the valid reason i cause market, what would the deal be then what, what, what was defined in, okay, you replacing by solution these in what, what's the deal it in the short term, some sort of the, almost some sort of see spot then, and then the longer negotiations of the roman martin this the russians would have to agree to that. yeah, yeah. well, if they got no agreement to the fact that he was replaced and a different tactic,

a different policy. okay. how about the trustees? no peace, no more. yeah, well, no i, i think the, the pigeon is very small guy. he's not going to blow it. you know, if he sees a change, a see change on the american side. and he sees the possibility of back channel talks to work out some sort of informal, almost his way. keeps what he's going to ready, no negotiation whatsoever for those territories are already taken. you know, a no nato deal. he may well be happy with it. he may not need so how's that, how is that not a defeat for russia, because then you've got a, a rum state ukraine that will be scooped up into native. i mean, they going to do it in the, in the, for the 75th, but they bought the loan, say, well, what's left of ukraine? what the, what the pot the russian hasn't taken. okay. it's going to be a member of nature. so how does not know the defeat for us as a service? i'm not sure it's great to see it. i mean it, it, it, it stops the war. and i think boots and months that i think he wants some solution to the longer term. the point about savanski and i think teacher is actually right,

soleski is an asset to pretend because i think pushing definitely once let's get to be around to find the final deal because us will give it. that's what we'll give. it makes for quite a bit of anything, not a book before you even sign a deal. we'll all be in florida. okay. i that's, that's fine. these pieces don't work for me. okay. again, you know, george, the, the problem with so much of this, um, uh, creating a hypothesis for a ceasefire for an end of a because like very often even people there is very kind of sympathetic to wanting to end it. they never, they almost never take into account with russia, how russia would react, okay, rushes tend to driving see right now, why would it change? of course. no, i, i, i agree with you and i think that i will do this and many times that this war is not about the land. so right, the idea that he's going to say, you'll be happy with say, taking 20 percent of your brain all away. the rushes achieve something that wasn't

the objective that wasn't what lee. the whole purpose of the circle, special military operation was. it was to ensure that ukraine was not a member of nato that's, that's the part that's the, the rush i have to secure. and that's why, in the sense these doomsday scenarios by the institute for the study was, have a sort of logic to that because they, they've kind of figure out, this is russian subject arrest is objective, is that ukraine, you know, basically will not be a part of nato ukraine will be in russia, is all that, and that has to be the ultimate objective of russia, just if they, oh, they get a bit of territory and but the rest of ukraine is a member of nato. then you'd have to say, well, then, what is the war a cheap? all right, but let me ask georgia question if i can just driving that because you asked me want to to, to, to, to find, to find one bucket to you. what happens in his presence or how does the present status quote continue? you know, you're looking at, in the last 6 months, estimates of a $120000.00. you kind of troops killed, you know,

the lens because popularity under question. you know, the countries fully unfolding. we don't see a quick fix militarily from the west, you know, so, so very well talking about getting a to some point, but some how does things, how do you see the next 6 months and you fine. 20 seconds george? well i, i think ultimately russia has to push forward for a victory. i think that they can be no other goals, but essentially topple the regime intensive and, and get a pre seems as i will work out some kind of a deal with russia. and also i think will not be a success. okay, i'm going to just put a pause on this because we'll continue this discussion next week. i want to take my guess, america, in budapest, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us or do you see you next time? remember, pressed up rules the

by the name of the wood in southern gauze and cutting one child. i'm moving several of those as the death toll in the region. the have supposed 19000. all sides all come in and be around the world are watching. and they know that these are the stories. the victories of the 4 year old that by the united states of america as well. some defense of the hill says his country has a washington support to a flight for the quote free blow, there's thousands of civilians are killed in. but then this idea of, of the time.