drinks and i to a channel going under warranty of your normal. don't come to us, new and old episodes of going underground season. the russian states never see as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best most. i'll send some of the same assistance to progress be the one else calls question about this. even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck. even our video

agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request, which is the the hello i'm a noah chan. you are tuned into modus operandi and repented and unapologetic centenary and statesman henry kissinger, died at his home on november 29th, 2023,

his name forever ashton, to the history books all around the world. for better or worse, henry kissinger was arguably america's most influential diplomat. this week we'll take a look back at this historical figure and the policies he implemented that shaped the world as we know it today. all right, let's get into the m o, the hitting that 100 birthday is a celebratory milestone. few ever seen. but for a heinz alford kissinger. better known as henry. it was a birthday mocked by cynics all over the internet. love him or hate them. henry kissinger left an indelible mark on the world warning bavaria to a jewish family. in 1923, his family fled nazi germany in 1938 for the united states. as

a naturalized citizen, young henry joined the west military father in world war 2 and later became an academic at harvard university, completing everything from undergrad through his ph. d, there in the early 19 fifties, he took his 1st job and government back in 1951 while he was completing his master's program. and it would seem never to leave. and he's played a role in every us administration ever since both officially and unofficially advising everyone from nelson rockefeller to hillary clinton. he even perhaps with tragic irony to comb the 1973 nobel peace prize. despite his expansion of the vietnam war, henry kissinger shaped the world across 2 centuries, the back half of the 20th and the 1st quarter of the 21st. passengers, policies and actions are so wide, reaching that historians are still learning about all of it today. all

right, joining us to reflect on kissinger as policies and legacies, will bring in an expert in the field. peter cruz, eric is a renowned professor of history at american university, author of a number of books and contributed to the fantastic doctor series called me and told history of the united states directed by oliver stone professor goose neck. always fascinating conversation with you who's better to discuss this topic venue. thank you for being with us. thank you for having me. so professor henry kissinger has a complicated and complex legacy to put it mildly, the father of real politics as many credit him even calling him perhaps original maga, maybe even an opportune. ringback just at a 100 years old, it's safe to say he was among some of the last of of that and generations diplomats 1st year topline thoughts on his passing and his legacy. it's interesting,

the way the discussion of kissinger his life has been going in the media since his passing. there are some who consider him a brilliant statesman, a scholar of visionary think or here. and there are many to consider him to be a work criminal, a man with a massive amount of blood on his hands. i put myself in the 2nd category. i think cag kissinger, kissinger betrayed everything. that was good about the american ideal kissinger. so i'd power the exercise power. it was ruthless, nothing would stand in his way. and at a personal level, there was something almost nauseating about him, where he would condemn next in a public late, but form all over him privately. man, hey,

understood what richard dixon was. but yeah, he's sucked up to him in ways that were really embarrassing humiliating. you have people see him, is this great statesman. and in fact, of the 19 seventy's, it's hard to believe. he was even considered a sex symbol. it was dating all these starlets right? it, you know, had a, it was one who said that power is the greatest aphrodisiac. and so you know that there was this on only the good die young. well, wow. i guess these are didn't die out of well there you have it. i think that's a pretty fair assessment um by a pop culture and the reference there. now, you know, kissinger as, as we've noted, has been around the politics for so long. it is actually hard to

find a foreign policy matter that didn't at least have his influence or his fingerprints on it on this back half of the 20th century. but perhaps chief among those criticisms was startling. an earlier end of the vietnam war. and of course, the expansion of the secret war in laos and cambodia and in cambodia is case this bombing campaign later resulted in the rise of pull pot and the come air rouge of slaughter a quarter of cambodia as population. and as history now tells it was used as you know, sometimes us on again off again, allied, talked with a little bit about his policy as it pertains to that region of south east asia. it was a harvard professor to hi, he advised, kennedy and johnson. and ministrations. and the 1968 when richard dixon was

running against hubert humphrey. he played both sides. i hate told humphrey he was going to give him access to all of nelson rockefeller's files on nixon, is that i always hated nixon. but with nicks and they play the other side, garcia, there was the go. she actually is going on in paris to end the vietnam war. and 1968. it would have already been a horrible devil goal, but it got the last, it's another almost 7 years actually. uh. and he got information from the insiders who were negotiating in paris. and he said it to nixon and nixon was able to use it to sabotage. they undermine the negotiations. they told that you government, that he would be much more supportive, much friendlier, that they shouldn't negotiate with that the north vietnam reason given to those terms. the final terms that the united states negotiated 5 years later and 1973

were very, very similar to what we could have gotten in 1968. but they would have bins, tens of thousands of americans more alive. and they would have been probably $1.00 to $2000000.00 vietnamese more alive, and we don't realize that. but i had robert mcnamara come into my class a few years ago. mcnamara said that mcmahon was a former secretary defense. that was also considered the architect of the vietnam. more american marriage said that he accepted that 3800000 in viet nam may just died . and that fighting 3800000 and kissed dry the hand in a lot of that. and so when the he and nixon get in there, they immediately have this very, very aggressive policy operation, doc hook, which is going to be a massive bombing policy that was described as

a savage bobby policy. and there were even options for use of nuclear weapons. unfortunately, there was such huge protest in the fall of 1969 that nixon was forced to or is actual. yeah. was it that the fall that next was forced to abandon that policy, but kissinger was all in on this viciously savage policy. but everything about the vietnam war was savage. and then later, the united states is going to begin bombing the north again. so the kissinger's policy with nick's in was one of vietnam ization. the idea was if we can pull most of the american troops out and let the vietnamese take over a, meanwhile, we'll just try to bomb them back to the stone age. that would be the best, the united states to get away with their and yeah, what it is, is one of the worst atrocities in human history. now we, we, we did. yeah,

absolutely. i mean, it was rumored that his orders were to take down anything that moves or anything that flies at all gets shot then. yeah. what you're referred to, as you mentioned before, is that the united states had been bombing in laos since 1964. but that accelerated enormously under kissinger and nixon. and we also be and bombing in cambodia, supposedly to test drive a north vietnamese sanctuaries in cambodia. and the amount of bombing that we did in those 2 countries is, was truly obscene. and what if it didn't destroy allows entirely, but it did destroy the foundation of cambodia. and the more we bottom, the more they compare rouge as a i recruited. and then the commodities took over at a time when the fabric of cambodian society had been totally rent asunder. and what

we saw as a result was risk genocide. perhaps 2000000 people died really as a result of american policy, kissinger's policy, kissinger over so gives you over saw the bombing in vietnam and the pick targets. i mean, there was so much blood on this guy's hand, that for him to be considered a brilliant statesman and a social lied. who is always an advisor to all the presidents and hob nob with everybody in society. is really a reflection on the lack of basic decency and many circles of us policy policy major. i agree ever. it probably speaks to the moral corruption here in, in washington, dc. and now, professor, while many would actually place this guy in the camp of cold warrior, you know, with his staunch position against the ussr, he was anti communist and all of that,

why would he be the one to move toward? they talk with china. i mean landing president nixon in beijing in 1972, setting up this architecture for modern day us china relations. a couple of things to consider their number one. he wasn't the one who suggested at 1st. the gall has suggested that kind of rob publish mode with china. the kissinger saw it as a way to separate china from russia. much is today, us policy makers are trying to figure out ways to drive a wedge between russia and china. kissinger saw this as a way to do that back in the 1970s. and there was already a lot of tension between the soviet union and china. so it gets, it just nearly exploded that the driving force behind that policy. and

a lot of regards was dixon, more than much even more than kissinger, helen thomas, giving that american university a few years ago, said the kitchen as it gets credit bill is really next is policy just wondered any word china was. so i'm not sure how accurate that is, but they saw it as a way to separate drive, a wedge between russia, the soviet union and china. and it succeeded in that regard. and then later it, kissinger does a push for daytime, with the soviet union also. so, i mean, there are some things that he achieves that we might say has a positive impact. but if you look at our balance overall of this man's career and what he represented, the negatives overwhelmingly outweigh the positives. you know, that sort of like people saying, you know,

hitler was trying to his grandchildren or helped him with good with, with kids. you know. yeah. maybe that's true. i don't know. yeah. he loved the paint apparent other. forgive is other crimes. yeah, exactly. he loved to paint and he was a vegetarian. yes. that doesn't really quite make up for it. does it professor? oh, don't go anywhere a lot more to talk with you about. all right, coming up next. we'll look at kissinger as role in chalet and other latin american countries. we're going to discuss it all when we return with peter cruz. next it tight. m, o will be right back the the since world war 2, united states has fostered extremist anti russian prejudices and hatreds among the

ukrainian d. as for in at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe, probably everywhere in the world. it doesn't matter what these groups say or do it will support them if it is the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. joe again might done choose, but it should consecrate yellow instead of do well as well as one of the middle. i know myself, it just means the printer was using just $50.00. let me see. i see i use is anyone at anything if there's a religion the

it's amazing. what can happen over the course of a few months, not long ago buying was in fabric, that the us would back to great as long as it takes. no, it is as long as we can. what happened? no doubt, the regime and 2 is taken down. the welcome back to the m. o i, manila champ, professor peter krusik is back with us. thank you for sticking with us professor. so let's just hop right to it because there's obviously a lot to talk about when it comes to this man. henry gives near. let's move away from asian for a moment and had to latin america for as much as washington likes to harper about democracy and human rights. under kissinger's watch and his careful direction. the 20th century solve brutal dictatorships be installed across south america who were

friendly to the us, but certainly not a boon for human rights. many say today's influx of spanish speaking migrants can be traced back to kissinger's policy. is that the stabilized much of that content? can you give us sort of a birds eye view on his role in latin america? a good, you know, as the most egregious example of what kissinger did was, and a really, this was very much hands on. and his policy was over throwing the end a government into i, i and they got elected as a democratic socialist and 1970. and from the very start, kissinger was at kissinger struck, endeavoured to overthrow a. yeah. and i replaced them with the eventually the brutal dictator. augusta of

pino shay. and this happens really early on. in fact, even nixon was thinking about trying to find some kind of rob approach money with a young day. but next, kissinger sabotaged that kissinger, made sure that wasn't going to happen. and then what i yeah. and that in 1972 goes before the united nations and give that speech that was so powerful about the suffering of people in latin america at the hands of the united states. you and a bachelor was george w bush. he'd been routers and shared a lot with everybody else because it was so powerful. but uh, yeah, and a really signed his own death warrant with that speech. and then the united states intensified its operations there. and the guy ran the crew that i killed the that top of the yeah, the yeah. and they killed themselves with the rightful that was given him as

a gift by fidel castro and united states imposed piano shay. and piano shade was a bloody dictator who maintained power there. and the ag kissinger bent over backwards to support. pity, no shame. so even though this were the normally popular progressive democratic, the government there that was ruling the interest of the people. that c like instead of the united states, kissinger was eager to destroy it. and he did it. he knew there was no strategic significance to, to a, a comment that, that she liked is a dagger pointed at the heart of an article that was very kissinger's words. he knew was now strategically se, vivian. but he also understood that it could represent an example of what other countries in latin america could do. so as she like to become

a democratic socialist republic, then why couldn't argentina and bolivia, and all these other countries. so that was why he went about to destroy it. uh and uh, cuz dixon was happy to go along. but if you follow the dialogue between the 2 of them, it is truly outrages how open they were about what the united states was doing. and we follow that up with the dirty war and argentina, and they were tens of thousands more killed in argentina with the us hands all over it. but it wasn't only that. there was also operation condo or now this was an attempt by the right wing intelligence officials throughout latin america to eliminate the decisions and they killed some of the lights, 13000 dissidence. these were labor leaders, or urban reformers,

royal reformers. anybody who was seen as an opposition in latin america was vulnerable and they went about and the united states supported death squads around latin america. this is not gonna be the end of it in reagan is going to double down on all of this. and in many ways, reagan is gonna focus more on central america, where a lot of those immigrants, the united states come from. but it gets inger was thinking about central and south america and a trail of blood, a trail of killing a trail of atrocities. a trail of rage across latin america was in large part kissinger's doing? yeah, the, the, the case of i and a, i always think of the godfather movies where the scene with the forces had, it was kind of serving as a, as a warning shot to everybody else if you will. so professor here, state side,

the political establishment in d, c r r, i would say all in lock step in their esteem and regard for kissinger, regardless of their party affiliation, every post, every secretary of state and every high ranking official over the last 4050 years have all wrapped on his door for consultation. i mean, literally until his final days, henry kissinger enjoyed a very lucrative post governmental career without having to answer to the public. as though retired from the government. i think it's fair to describe him almost as a meritus secretary of state, or even a shadow one, despite history proving to us that his id, ology, and his policies had negative consequences all around the world. so in that sense, kissinger lives on, doesn't he, i mean, in, in that the school a real politic has generations of followers. now,

kissinger was agitated by anthony blinking samantha power. many people who professed to be believe so strongly in human rights, which was the cause that that was totally alley indications here. he never support is human rights is supported power, geo, political advantage domination setting the example showing that how ruthless the united states could be if you pressed it. and if you challenged any of us for august was anywhere. and kissinger was in many ways brilliant. and he did have an understanding of history and he saw the interconnections between what happens one area and what happens potentially in other areas. and it wasn't going to allow progressive forces to get a foothold anywhere if he could prevent it. and we'd look what he did in supporting the indonesians, against the, to maurice, you know, again,

20 percent 25 percent of the team or is killed with us support. we look what it did and support in the practice. danny's, i guess, or deleon's. but what becomes ultimately bangladesh, millions of people, apparently killed as a result of that least hundreds of thousands. then there's a certain kind of ruthlessness, but it's you can do with a german accent and, you know, it could be, he could read it later in the original german. i gave him an advantage. but, you know, you don't, it's hard to understand the appeal of a man who, who is responsible for so much killing during his lifetime at a. but he's being a patch related and embraced and celebrated by many, many people as it is a lot of biding,

president biden likes to say that's what's going on now is a struggle between autocracy and democracy, but the london economist got it right. they said, well, we call the stroke to, you know, talk, we're seeing democracy. most of the world sees a struggle between autocracy and hip park or c as that had park we see of what the united states, the american empire has represented throughout its history. since world war 2, but especially beginning with vietnam and then the afghanistan and iraq, and maybe we can go through the whole litany of the kissinger, was up to his eyebrows in that kind of worldview, that legitimize that, that sanction that, that even celebrated. it talked about american, you know, america's role in the world that america's vision kissinger did not share any of the positive vision of a franklin roosevelt of a henry wallace of

a jack kennedy the last year of his presidency. jimmy carter in the 1st 2 years of his presidency before he becomes totally a captive of brzezinski. i mean, this was an alley and thinking person who'd learn certain lessons from what he saw going on in nazi germany. and he learned all the wrong lessons. and i think that's the tragedy. yeah, and i feel like this school of thought will continue for many more generations to come. because like you said, it's by partisan ad relation for henry kissinger here in washington. professor peter could next. thank you so much for your expertise. he of course peter, because nick is a professor of history and director of nuclear studies institute. thank you so much for that expert insight professor, you know? all right, that is going to do it for this episode and modus operandi. i the show that digs deep into foreign policy and current affairs. i'm your host manila chan. thank you

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