[000:00:00;00] the, the that they is 23 by the city and i, a reporter, killed 8 on is really as tried on southern gather, full. so i had the death toll in jobs are tops 21000 with an estimate of 55000 people injured a doctor in the southern city, a rough idea of how locals are trying to survive. many wounded children, a child and his father came to meet. they were the only ones left alive from the whole family. he is missing one quarter of his cold and almost no wise. there are many such cases. it's hard and painful to watch the safety people all

reported killed in id of attacks on the southern galvin city of can union the day i bytes this hour on r t international. i'm i, they show a josh with got most stories at the top of the hour, so stay with us next us. crosstalk the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are consider 9 people about the calendar is changed, but the trends we observe last year continue with this into the new year. change is

in the air in the powers that be in politics and media are resisting the status quote is being tested. this is what could make 2024, a watershed year. the discuss these issues and more and joined by my guess. jordan sent me well we in budapest, he's a pod cast or at the capital which can be found on youtube and locals. and in america, yes, we have mark jay, he is an award winning journalist and commentator gentlemen, costs up rules, and that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. all right, so start out with george and in budapest you know, the end of last year going into the new year. there's a sudden a sense of foreboding out there. a lot of commentators was something new and i am very much admired respect. tucker carlson is been saying this and

a number of other people they think they're looking at 2024 as a certainly a year of change that certainly that's an understatement. okay. but we have also, um, the bold attempt to finish out the us presidential election in the both. his name is donald trump. and in my lifetime, i have never seen it and such a political come back. i mean, this is almost like nixon in 68 trunk left the office with the deplorable public opinion approval. now it's doing really quite well, george, for you. you're absolutely right to use the word foreboding because we really are in the uncharted waters. i mean, we have a presidential candidate with the homeless of new when the nomination of his party . he's got 4 criminal cases pending against them. um, some of them may what are the trials may will take place before the election. um

and uh is there was an absolute determination to, to stop it by the who, the president who is well, who actually runs the justice department, has made it clear that he intends to stop them and not by being a, by any means possible. and this is really very dangerous because the truck has his follow is very, very loyal followers. and they will not just sit still full the whole the how big of a president by the use of law said by the use of the justice department by going off to him with criminal charges that have never been brought against the former president. and then you will have to wonder, well, what happens when all of these methods of destroying from fail? i mean these like, you know, not just the criminal cases, but for instance, trying to take him off the, the balance again. it's never been done. but you know what with one state offer

another trying to take him up to about that if you really have a very, very explosive mix, who knows how that's going to play in? oh no. is that what it's going to let you know martin? this is an interesting thing about american politics. the america is actually a cool, very decentralized because we have a federal republic and states. but there are 2 things americans do. when unison, they use, you should pay taxes, okay. and they only office the entire country. collectively, the lex is the president and vice president as a ticket, and this is the only collective thing left politically in the united states. and as george has just said here, taking a major candidate off the ballot. well, with no good, understandable, reasonable reason is your recording not just chaos, but worse than chaos. martin? yeah. why are you afraid to say a civil war? that's what we're talking about. yeah,

we to get married his young country as well. um, it's a great country, busy young country and i think, you know, there was so many what is when we look at this situation with trump and you're just re system, you know, it's a lot of new ground to be broken. but it is, it, i agree, it is very worried that if he actually gets nailed on the faces, these bus prosecutions and faces jail time, that there's no good scenario. there's not, there's no, there's no solution. so cool solution for the country or for by know anybody, you know, um, but as listing thing that keeps coming through is that what i've noticed though is every time trump gets one of these cases against him, his popularity, souls. and so you've got this kind of, you know, what, i'm sure even even sleepy joe biden, who just last week did his thing again, almost finishing a speech, turning around facing a blank screen. i'm just sort of looking at the blank screen,

wondering when someone would jump through and check his handle. i give him an ice cream or something here he's, he's getting worse. senility is really set to him in a 111 does what. what with a, he's worked this out with his bite and people actually. so the said actually we're in a clear and a catch $22.00 situation now we oh, we're in a whole, i'm with digging. and so the outcome is only going to be about um, but you know, none of us go to crystal notice can say what looks actually going to happen. i, i think it will be really fascinating to see how this plays out. but again, is it just me as a photo looking out looking in the i'm, it seems to me that there's a little corruption introduced usually system, you know, $11.00 politics of just taking over. and i think that might be a basis of some of the comforting telling a new leaf you know, will the next generation versus now awesome for the pollute the politics to be taken completely out of the appeals process. well, george, i mean the, the, the,

the interesting fact is we go into this year and we look at american politics, is that if you look over the last, like 3040 years where, you know, wages of stagnated a good paying blue color jobs and virtually disappeared so you have a younger generations plural, but they don't feel like they have any staking the game anymore. um uh, a lot of young people believe that they'll never be able to own their own home. we have an ideology of live live with less and you'll be happy. well as old rich people say that okay, no, that's what kind of a long introduction to is the democracy deficit. i mean, the last thing you have is the vote. but if you're not allowed to exercise your vote, then what's this whole thing more? what's the whole system worse to me? exactly, right. and this, um, essentially decline in the style of the light. i mean, rebecca, you know,

america was always held up to be the paradigm of a wealthy, successful country, any being of the people in europe. we're growing up in the 56. the seventy's 8 is think it well in north america, that's where people are making money. that's where it was a dynamic uh, economy that isn't there anymore. and uh and, and that's actually, it is like a stagnating them 5 where you have a, you know, a fast only sleep that he's doing very well making, making a lot of money. um and uh, and hope it didn't help. it didn't hurt the money and then it was use. the agenda is just the green agenda that's sort said just fine but is obviously hurting. most americans who been one way or another, defend all name and manufacturing industry that requires a lot of energy that isn't provided by the alternative recycle fuels. but

they say elite is espousing a name that explains the, the rise of donald trump. i mean, the trump is somehow his is promising. well, we'll go back to the arrow when, you know we, we were doing well when we, when, when we were held up to be a, it's a power line. all this a successful country. and it's very interesting, george is like, you know, when you, we have these populace figures around the world. you know, victor of obama has been dumped on a lot. but we have this a new leadership in, in a slovakia. and they're always called the, their version of trump, which is a metaphor for dissatisfaction with the status. go on and change gears because there's so much we need to talk about and so little time with them. and they tell us a big birthday coming up this. he has a big birthday, you know, when people get to that age, they usually retire, but nato decides they keep going here. what's gonna happen? i mean, this is a make or break one for them. you know,

they did their last year with the ukraine. ice indian and then as we speak right now, there's nothing to cheer about right home about when it comes to ukraine. so nato is really got itself in a jam, of course it, but itself, there it's self inflicted or. yeah, i've, i've said before, i'm did, i think that there's 2 scenarios where the for the native best se on is a made. so finds a solution to your credit. and um, it won't be a great solution, but a solution, some sort of solution where it can present itself to the international community. basically the essence way through whatever they've done. you know, they'll claim that they've got some sort of victory if they can stop the fighting if they can claim the credits and the credit for the stuff in the fighting. that will be what they will present or they will hit us with like news. they'll actually fake the entire thing, and i'm sure the media people now are actually working out how we can spend this, you know, who we can willing, you know what you on this we get on board. they must have planning it now. i'm absolutely certain there's going to be

a lot of fake news lead got to do about and they said, what is donald was achieved, you know, the items going to be that doing the city handshakes. and probably, i think you claim may, will be just completely abreast of the whole thing. because you gotta remember that no matter how much we for the ukraine and you know, how do you up this goodness, the absolved themselves in the subject. most americans don't remember to think about you create missing where it is and where it is on the map. you know, so they might be thinking, actually if we just stop reporting on your crime, oh, i think i judge you're in a better uh, expert outlets. it was the new york times of the washington post that took that subject off their menu bar. they just, i think was last the last week of the year that the, the tab that you have that you've been in ukraine knows they dropped it. okay. um, what are they comparing for at the preparing us for george? well, i, i do tend to thing, and i've said this before,

then they will push for ukraine, a membership in nato. what's, you know, less of ukraine. they're not going to be able to incorporate those spots of ukraine then, and loss the in the, you know, the, the full of bless that, that we incorporated in the russian federation. but then they will say, well, this bob is now in nato. and they say that they, well we achieve something. um, and the thing is a, you know, nato for them. this is a, you know, the, the goose that lays the golden egg. it, it is, you know, gives a russian alpha and beta. well, you know, we need to keep going because of the russians, right? you know this, this is an existential threat for us and the peddling the story now, you know, throughout native land but rational poses a threat to us. you know, at any moment, you know, they can attack deadlock, i can look back germany, we need nato now more than ever. and for the united states, they still are determined on inflicting vespa. t j defeats on russia. so can you

tell me the last thing you great with this family? it was always use your argument in martin's argument together. is that ok? russia is obviously a threat to nato land, but thinking the air pressure you cream out of it. okay? because we know what the russians are up to is, is there a, an amalgam there, george? well, i don't think is because of them. if they just simply abandon ukraine, then they would have to worry that the entirety of your brain would be taken over by russia. that will be a huge strategic the box to do that. but there is no other may still be on the geopolitical influence of russian, that they will come up with some leadership that kind of what, what they need to with goals. the quiz lead to shipping to have some met vet your goal. are a stove which like vega would be basically doing the bidding of moscow. that's how they would spin this, where they said that's the, that's how they would see it. and therefore this would be a strategic defeat for made. so i don't think that that's the operative word strategic would be. but for whom gentlemen i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break,

we'll continue our discussion about the new year. stay with our team, the new media research typically fall here, sent to me. i think, you know, what kim's in the book is that the nurses should see where it gets to the young showcase use the so he's going into the, by the ways that the boys

the, the most new and that'll be for them. i'm not sure if this florida doesn't want that extra them but and the that the the welcome back to across that were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. this is a home addition to mind. you were discussing the year 2024. the all right, let's go back to a martin the america, um, unfortunately,

and the conflict and gaza continues. and how is this going to change your region of the world where you live? because, you know, we've, you know, we've often heard the narrative bit, you know, era believes they've never really been particularly interested in the face of the palestinian people. but their people do, i mean when democracy isn't the they, they may a political system that comes to mind when you think of the greater middle east. okay. so the, the, the error of the street, if i can use that term, i know a lot of people don't like it, but there is a very strong feeling about what's going on and causes it and how it relates to how they see the outside world, particularly the west, well, in my view is gonna turn the clock back to the pre 1991 where we had the site, the coal i. so i think there's going to be an intensified level of division divided by subject. you know? yes, our countries, particularly somebody leads who have really sold themselves on the whole

palestinian story like um ever went into p o m b as in saudi arabia, them being a palestine is a really big part of the political identity. those, those leaders are gonna have a hard time, the best thing with the realities of what's going on. but i think we might seen emergence adult. um perhaps, um not, no such a. what i'm trying to say is that something which we, i'm a secretive sort of emergence authorise coalition of some of these are countries that my will fund terrace activities with homeless in the future. so that may, will come from iran. cutoff will to a key. but, you know, looking at the rest of the world, what you see is now division. you know, you've got some countries that, uh, really making a stance against what's going on. like, uh, i'll just area for example. um, um, any of the other companies like morocco here an m or us who uh, mails to the bank,

posts of the whole ho is ready deal. unfortunately they're in too deep. you know, they've invested too much business wise, you know, and so forth. so and the lowest vision we can expect, and i think the, the breaking point of this, the sub dishes plan i think, which is on the way you know, which might take months to get off the ground. but i think that's happening against israel. but again, in the region, you know, you, you can probably put a bet on job bind to missing things up and just escalate to the situation even further because it's just a mix space with last week. also, we're, we're, we're talking about american, forget some aircraft carriers taking potshots who tease in the resi, you know, and then we're even talking about, um, pitching, what happened actually, you know, there was a white house and the pentagon reporters on a number of us strikes on it ran him back from issues in the rack. so we're almost there. you know, we've been to the, what we've seen in george over ever since the,

the, and the global war on terror ou outside of israel, who does the united states count on in the middle east now. i mean, i'm not sure the list is very long. right. a rack told them to leave, they won't sleep in the united states illegally occupied as part of, of syria, the saudis. oh they're, they're pretty moody. they can go. but they have a lot of leverage right now. okay. and they shown very little respect for the pub by the administration. very good on this. exactly right. um, but the limitations here, there feels the sad part of this is that in the united states that has been no changes. oh, i mean if you look at congress, it's still 90 percent, maybe 95 percent. absolutely. unequivocally behind is what i mean. so can do anything. i mean this over to so, but you know that tomorrow just release the nuclear weapons and you still get the 95 percent per se. we must done with is really, you know,

that the is where this white thing for its existence and nothing can change that and it's, it's, it's so pulling as you know, for looks of the mid lease. i mean the of publicity is modern. describes of these divisions, but the fact is that, you know, with, with many of the lease arrow countries now haven't even broken diplomatic relations with israel. i mean i, they, so they can be continuing the same way. i mean, they haven't said, oh, we now renounce the abraham the codes that say, you know, this is, you know, we made a huge mistake. this is a for reflect terrible state, but we've uh, established diplomatic rushes that hasn't ended. so yeah, they make these condemnations that go to the united nations maple the right noises, but in practical times, but haven't really done anything. i mean, it's a whole, i mean, i'm us and the hooters. and then the other ones were actually doing something address that issue because then you, you really have this division between the leads that have their very specific

interest. and then everybody else then for everybody else, this issue of palestine is paramount. yeah, i think come on, george mentioned practical level. the practical level i think, is not going to come from political leads on the practical level is gonna come from people, individuals, you know, who, who would want to be in his really, businessman now traveling around them. at least, you know, i mean there is a hell of a kick, but there's a lot of anti semitism now, which is fussing at the surface. and i'm where i am in morocco. now you house inside political body's not representing hundreds of thousands of people who are cooling now. for is riley's who have joined possible. it's a marker to now actually lose the citizenship, the american citizenship. so it's, it's pointing up in some places and it's a little, there's a contradiction around the time, you know, officially hit morocco with his i do see that. but a lot of the you have a huge amount of number of people who are really unhappy about that. and so i think on a practical level, you're going to see a lot of resistance. just look at the internet,

just go to facebook and see the informal level of boycotting is what has gone through. now it's not just hutus taking pot shots of the ships. it's, you know, countries and people around the world, a boy cutting their products, and really campaigning quite vociferously. you know, i mean, there's a lot of awareness now out there on facebook. google is really product, so i'm not sure the range of products, the companies that support is right as well. and as a distinction to. so the practical level is the political leads will have to recognize this. at some point, when they head towards the elections, they have to recognize the millions of people who don't sign up to that. well, george cooled the 95 percent of congress, backing israel. you know, so there will be a turning point. at some point. i'm not in 2024 is incredibly interesting. not just because you've got by them heading to the polls. if he does, if he actually makes it, i'm still not sure. you know, with this, the middle to see the way it is, i mean, is how many times can we mess up? you know, before the democrats suddenly panic of the last moment. but don't forget,

you got your p and elections in june as well. and this is much, much bigger in my view because, you know, adults mentioned earlier about the fatigue, you know, assessing in across the america. and now the system seems to be slowing down. and there's a lack of confidence now in the political elite sooner. but in, in, in, in europe, that trends that transcends into people voting for, for right groups as a present practice. right. and so you mentioned earlier about fall, right the, the populace leaders now, you know, got another one in the netherlands, which is just one when i'm president. i'm president a number of seats. i'm my political friends in belgium are telling me this is going to have an impact on the firm's blow compulsion as well. and so, you know, watch the elections in june and the european parliament because that is going to be a deal breaker for. well, it's really interesting, george here in budapest here, it's interesting watching the political landscape changing in europe and the other

lands we have of the alternative for germany party under pressure by the government . we had a change in government, slovakia. we had an attempted re colored revolution and sent in serbia, but there's one political figure that stands in the same place watching the landscape change. so that's a picture of a, of the vicar, or by the end of the he blaze, the trail and all those products. but the curious thing is about these, um, you know what, what are the uh, the, the far right populace is that while on russia and ukraine, they say no. i said this has nothing to do with us. this is really stupid for europe when it comes to israel, avail, very strangely, uh, pro israel, you know, or band band any pro palestinian demonstrations, loaded with the united states and united nations. exactly as at the general assembly of build is also very uh,

pro is right. um and uh it's, it's just being, i'm, it goes if, if the reform body of this is nigel for roger spot, it stands in the, the u. k. elections for ours is also very pro israel. so there's a kind of a, a, it's like just junction navigable to the right, which again, hey, russia, there's nothing to do with that. that's stupid to fight with them. but they've very much in the tank for around israel. so you know, it's hard to know how all of these things are a kind of doing a shakeup. um and then again in the united states. yes, i mean the question bite and there's lots of level of support within his own party . we're. we're a very unhappy about that is stand. so a garza but you could all do those people. you tell them if you don't vote for by then trump terrible trump is going to come back to the challenge that i the iron need to it's a trump is very pro is free of all. exactly the other one. yeah. yeah, that's right. it, they don't. martin,

and that's one of the things that i find really disheartening is that conservatives who used to be of the biggest defenders of free speech or now some of the biggest oppressors of free speech in it all revolves around this issue of israel. what is and ty summit is i'm, i think most people have no idea what zine is, a really means and how it does kind of short circuits the, the discourse george's just mentioned that it just shuts down to by just now, you know, soon as you started that somebody as soon as you started that into, into the argument, you know, yeah. and the other person is supposed to stop talking and we don't really understand anything beyond down, you know, i've seen this in the u. k. a lot was debate about racism and been totalled up and a victim of it. but i'm, it's true. i don't think it's a conservative thing or less we all right, we thing, i think it some leads generally in my experience as

a journalist point and they tend to hop on about freedom of speech until they buy some on the os, you know, and then there's a problem and then, and then the lawyers get wheeled out and get paid, you know, close to the amounts of money to fix the problem. but so, you know, free speech looking back, you know, it last year and now looking at had to 2024. i wonder how much freedom of expression will play a role in dispute. political move them at least changes that we're witnessing, you know, where the people completely abandoned mainstream media and just go by, you know, it's interesting. yeah. unfortunately, gonna have to end on this. no, but george, you know, i hope that you know, in future generations they won't turn back and say, you know, like i saw on, on cross talk you those with the days when they had freedom of speech, it must have been great. 5 seconds, george, go ahead. yeah, i think it may well be the way it be very resuming 12 months. time was a well now it's really, really dangerous. you know, when it,

when i'm not able to get any kind of free speech anymore. so yeah, this is uh, this will definitely get, i think it's going to get worse. i think it's a, i didn't say it was and it was unfortunately tell them, look at the end on that depressing note. i want to thank my guess in marrakech and in budapest, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. remember, prospect leads of the the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is a conflict with the 1st law show alignment as a patient, we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the job i mean, with the artificial intelligence,

we have somebody with theme and the robot most protect this phone. existence was on the people very in the environment. they grow up in some people gloating. there it is easy places and living very disease places. other people live in areas that have less infectious diseases. and when you grow up in an area of high infection, since each individual strategically go to the collector, this are conservative tend to solution the