the, the, on the eve of the 100 day of war in guides, us mass purchasing the abrupt across the world, demanding the israel, and the violence, the at least 135 people were killed in the past 24 hours. an idea of strikes on the enclave found earlier designated as a safe area. being the main target also ahead. we were focused on making sure that the complex ongoing alga doesn't spread as washington cult

speeds the 2nd day of us. missiles, rain down on. yeah. man, fogged resistance grows deep side as low pull sky lights. america's motivation. 74 percent of our natural logic goes to the military and the website is ation. that is full and wall tie. ones routing parting wins the presidential election with just 40 percent of the vote. badging says the results doesn't represent the mainstream opinion of the taiwanese those are the top stories, this our here on our, to international, at one website for a more comprehensive coverage i'd, they show i josh complex is world apart. the

the owner, well control is a part of mounted polarity, has long been trained to award the most countries under your sanctions, but it didn't amount to much concrete. the part from perhaps a somewhat helpless disdain of us had germany. but over the last year and a half as more and more nations were forced to find that old ways of dealing with best and pressure multiple are to, has started to take a more tangible form. what is it, and where is it? having will to discuss that i'm now joined by around call. as soon as alice, deputy minister of foreign affairs for north america, it's a kind of us, it's great to meet you in. great to talk to thank you very much for your time. thank you much for the invitation. now we are talking here on the sidelines of the, of all day for him. which of these here a care is the title fair multiple larry, see how to ensure a security and development for all. and i want to start by asking whether you

believe it's even possible to ensure security and development for all and do it in a fair manner. well, i think it's something that we have to strive for, for sure. in venezuela's own history, uh, you know, we are a revolution that inspired by c mobile dealer or liberator, who spoke about the librium of the universe as a concept back in the 1800. some, he saw the, the tensions between the different poles that were rising. and that's how we have to establish some sort of equity in room balance so that we can assure that everyone's interest was consider. and i think this is the point we're reaching now . and in this point in history where we can no longer just sustain a world view, we're only the interest. so one country is accepted. but we have to make sure that we cater to to the interest of, of different peoples. because that model of the single country street is not

enough to guarantee for the rest of humanity, a safe planet, a safe safety from health or risk of disease. so so, so the, there's a need for us to build something different. i think it is achievable, and i think it's something that we have to promote. but even if i put that one country um beyond the breakfast for a for a moment, we'll start from different bases and doubts with different for source, assembled with different challenges. how would you even assess the fairness of the framework if we are all moving in different faces and sometimes in different directions? well, i think that's where the art of diplomacy comes in and the importance of dialogue and how we have to build relations with countries. among countries are relations field precisely on dialogue. we have to try to understand each others. there's different cultures of diversity. pressing what chavez spoke of joyful priority,

meaning that uh, not only do we have to have different pulls but the lease that we have to accept the diversity in each full so they can co exist. so i think it's important that we, we do that effort of, of dialoguing and trying to understand each other, see where our interest can meet. because everybody's obviously has different interests. everybody has different needs. well, there's gotta be a point where we can make them meet and, and work together for the best of all. he meant speaking about dialogue last here and develop the plan, the recession. you asked the president of this country, of alignment, put in the whether anything should be done to support this process of shaping multiple leverage. and his answer was essentially no, you know, it's a, it's a natural development. and besides the west to is already doing everything necessary to bring multiple arity about. do you agree with him that no specific measures a needed to protect her support of this process? well, i think it's important to like, he mentioned that this is something that is taking place. so now and perhaps we

will find out that along the way, for example, with the emergence of, of bricks. now as a such a strong platform that we may have to do some things to help it along the way and contribute to, to that building. i think it's important that we, we strengthen those processes because that's where we can really see a new type of arrangement where people can participate in different countries. have different types of participation. and we can overcome a stomach problems that we've had for example, that in, in countries in, in, in the south and the global south or even development seem another way of, of cooperation for development that doesn't in both of you of one country of another. but it actually is a, some of necessities and an opportunity well, getting into an argument for his bladder report. and i think sometimes it's very difficult to allow these lab be approach. and not only because your opponents are

piling economic sanctions on to you. but also because i think they're now overstepping their own values and their own laws to punish countries like ours. for example, i don't know if you've heard that, but the e u has recently introduced the master that would allow its officials, customs officials to st. uh, russian nationals on their personal belongings like phones, like even toiletries. and that is coming from countries that i still believe to be the champions of personal freedoms and privacy. i wonder if we have come to a point when we have to be concerned about the unraveling of the west because of the western sanctions. well, i think that's something that we're seeing a part of the result of these sanctions. and these policies is that is a promotion of fate in a way, or is it and then only happens to russians with a, in this case that you mentioned. but you seem to happen, for example, in, in, in,

with less than american migrants in, in, in the united states for, uh, you know, the, the, every time you have, you, they place a migration on the other end is that only the, the law is not only the section itself, but it's also accompanied by a message of distancing themselves from the other and generating fear, hate, we have to distance ourselves from, from this policy, we have to stop these processes throughout the world. we're seeing this re emergence in both in, in europe hard also. and then america, of the fastest tendencies that are use the use hates in order to promote their policy. so it is part of this process they use hate of to promote their policies, but they're also sort of a very successful in projecting it out to other countries. they do not see that as hate. in fact they, they seem to be very self righteous. what could possibly uh,

bring it to their attention that they're doing the exact same things that they are accusing that adam is off. and the problem is that i think it will get to a point that these measures that they take and that they promote, heard them as well. they're going to realize that their actions also have consequences. and they are already those in and academic terms. so we're seeing, for example, the gas prices being probably the highest that they've been in the last few months in the united states and hardly is due because the, the way the essential to impact uh, oil markets throughout the world. if countries like venezuela, we run, for example, they didn't have the sanctions place on them. there could be different oh, rush, rush efforts for the fact the us like leave a very different consequences or the very different i'm energy. so fly and,

and the effects on the us people will be quite different, but also easy in other issues like even uh, with migration itself and in part of countries that are under economic distress because of, of sanctions. well, one of the results sometimes seems to be migration and, and, and this, the united states was also feeling a, so there is a feeding loop whether they like it or not. but for the time being they still prefer not to notice it. yes it, and in a way is it is part of the, you know, the part of the problem, the, the, they believe that their actions don't have consequences, but they do now uh, the west is using not only direct sanctions against countries like russia, women as well but also secondary sanctions to penalize those who are willing to do business with the quote unquote the renegades. and that's who can be seen as a direct uh tool against multiple r a t. uh, you know, if we understand multiple our to is

a space when nations can relate to each other on their own terms, do things sooner or later. multiple letters who really require some sort of um, formal arrangement or protection against western pressure. well, what we really need already exists, which is the principles in, in, in trying to know you and charter, the end of practice well, but the but, but they're, they're m and you know, at one point in time, countries to, to become members of the u. n. they, they signed the, the charter, they agreed to be part of it. and what we need to do is to rescue those, those ideals, and those principles and, and stress the necessity of, of respecting them the, the, the idea, the us, for example, coming both these unilateral masters is completely a violation of, of international law. so we have to do is we don't have to do the same, we have to defend and show that we respect international law that then we want a system where or multiple hours it can fly with. but you know,

countries can thrive because there's every, i'm a minimum respect for each other's interest and well, me, i don't know if you would agree with that. but what i find very interesting about our times is that, you know, there's principles that have been and try and in the year and charter for the state is it now makes sort of sense to uphold them because it's in your own benefit. and we see some of the us nominal allies like saudi arabia, like united arab emirates, becoming members or briggs because they, they find it not only uh who doesn't moral terms, it's in that practical developmental interest. so do you think there's something new about the way countries relate to those values and trying them to you and charge them? well, we're definitely a moment where we realize of relations have to be different. because again, the, the system though that was prevailing of that was trying to be, impose on the rest of us,

doesn't have the solutions to our problems. i think what countries are doing or realizing that they have to abide or follow those, those principles that we'll share and, and doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to subject ourselves to a country. it means that we have to build spaces where we can dialogue and contribute and cooperate, which is very important. so we, we have to engage in el center relationship rather than incursion. now speaking about when as well or your country has been under western sanctions for, for, for very long time as has iran, cuba, some other nations. but it hasn't pro, with this kind of, rapid changes within the international economic and political system that we have observed. recently, and i wonder if you see western sanctions against russia as a standout case, or whether it's simply the cumulative effect of all those years of sanctions against various countries. that is influencing base for bringing about this rapid

change within the international system. well, it also has to do also with the size of, of countries. i'm economies, obviously garages of much larger country and the impact that these measures may have on, on, on the world because of how they affect russia is different from holly may impact smaller countries. but the truth is that about 30 percent of the world is right now and to some sort of unilateral course of measure from the united states. and press in gloss motor has been very open and in denouncing this, these actions and how we have to find new uh, new solutions to and the dependency that we have, for example, on the dollar or that we have on, on, on this capability the united states as american financial institutions, all american lab, financial institutions, we have reset the to be international. that's why that's why i presume

a little said in, in, in the recent his message to the recent bricks meeting and south africa of the, the importance that it was to, to find new alternatives to find an architecture for new financial model to think about the, the lowest ation and see how we can have another organization over the world where we're not. so depending on the united states as a well mr. carlos, we have to take a very short break, rest still dependent on the, on our schedule, but we will be back in just a few moments state you in the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion, by how us

a good division with no real live indians. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills. and is it just as a chosen for you? fractured images, presented it is. but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the welcome back to me is a part of the rest of the carlos minutes ellis, deputy minister for, for the furnace for north america. best to call us before the break. we mention sanctions that the united states maintain the against your country for many years. and i know for a fact that the new sal and in a rainy and experience has been studied in russia extensively to understand what to

do and what perhaps not to do when dealing with these draconian measures against my country. i wonder if venezuela has learned anything new or got any new ideas from the russian experience? well, i think it's funny because when we uh, i remember one time speaking uh when the sanction started under the trump immunization, i spoke to a russian diplomats and who i encounter with in, in, in washington. and, and the 1st thing he told me was, well, you have to learn to live with sanctions. and then my ways to, you know, part of what we have seen from the experiences of russia. but also if we run a cube for many years, is that you know, the point of, of was, of the section policy from the united states is to reduce regina change and produce all these alterations of our reality, which are not in tune with the needs and the wants of that, of our people. so we have to learn to, to,

even though we have these aggressions how to make our, our own solutions on how to move forward. the experience from russia now is of course it's also interesting for us as all the other ones. and i think what, what we have learned is that nobody's going to give us anything for free. we have to, well, whatever we're gonna do for our future and we'll have, are we gonna develop our country? we have to do it by defending it ourselves by organizing our peoples. and so i think that that, that is the best lesson that we can learn overall. it's interesting you say that because uh, you know, a substantial part of those sanctions were brought about after the election. so 2018 and next year you're facing another presidential vote. do you expect any american interference reducing the americans wouldn't be too preoccupied with that on domestic political strife?

well, i think the, if we look at history, you know, this year will be, that's a 100 and the grocery of the monroe doctrine, which is a, do you think that going to celebrate? well here's, here's, here's the thing is i, what we seen is a constant intervention in the continent. uh, you know, in different, different types of forms from cause to sanctions, to a invasion is everything. but so, so the tendency is that they will always try to find a way to, you know, see in gauging in, in our processes in the, an alternate and in their favor. we, uh, i think we would diminish on people uh know what the reality are. you know, i, i think we have face all these addresses, all these problems. and we have had a leadership setting leadership on their pressing model that has led the country out of that. uh, you know, that aggression, we have been able to grow and the last year that and you know,

which is something that nobody would bring, will was able to predict. uh, you know, and just a couple years earlier because they thought that everything would collapse. and we have shown that, you know, we're capable of, of, of achieving a different, uh, different outcome. so i think the, minnesota people know that, you know, they, they have to keep advancing in their democratic process in the deepening a revolutionary process. and i think those leads the outcome regardless of whatever intervention it takes place the venezuela is, is an emergency. and you know, we will have elections and different forces with metro themselves. but i think the sort of people know where the horizon is thinking about different forces, one voice mail from the west at that time, the recognized as the interim presence of from the cell that is barely seen or mentioned anymore. how do use is that? how do you assess his political fortunes? well, i think it was, uh well, she left the countries not even

a political figure of any importance right now in venezuela. and i think many countries now realize that it was, you know, ridiculous to have supported the adventure of trying to recognize the government, the leading exists that you will have not only didn't have a legal basis, but also it didn't have any popular support. i mean, nobody though that was for trade us and either could simply leave the country and there will be no effects whatsoever them or you can, you can, you can see how it is when it says overcome that, that chapter i think, you know, when we're looking forward we're looking ahead again for some of the has shown us away. thoughts uh gross towards the improvement of services for the people. i think that's the path we're on and that's important. as i said, you're looking forward to that. i also want to ask you to look sideways

a little bit because i'm interested in your opinion about the american election. so which are also coming up next year. and i think what's different then we've talked about that a little bit already. is that the station for the americans themselves is different there. they have never been so polarized as they are right now. and i wonder if, if you think that the outcome of the next here, well, it's bill have any barry on how the multiple r a t shaping or how the valves on the a continental shaping out. well, i think 1st of all, i want to say, you know, we are respectful of the sante of the people's united states. so whatever the session they make, of course it, we respect them and, and that's what we want them to do in, in our. but let's, as me, the choice is quite unprecedented, then it's very, i mean, the, perhaps not very inspiring, even for the americans themselves. and judging from the polls what, well there's, there's many problems in u. s. society. now the they're facing because of the,

their model is again, it's not able to fulfill the expectations of people using growth in, in, in, in homeless mass us and growth in poverty. so there's a lot of traffic patience on the people who say so then they need to find a way to, to vote for, you know, solving their own problems and not trying to police the world are trying to engage in our elections. i think i hope that whatever comes as a result is another renewed opportunity to engage with united states. they put magically and on equal terms. i mean, you know, maybe maybe a high bar to said, but i think it is important that we remember we've always been willing to engage with united states diplomatically. as long as there's a relationship with mutual respect when you don't have them with their respect. and then all these other informations comes about. so my hopes that lease or that

whatever outcome it is is something that can lead to a respectful relationship. now one of those issues polarizing, here's domestic politics is immigration and it's no secret that then is alan make migration to the united states is linked perhaps directly to the sanctions policy. and i think this is one of the very, very few ways that americans can directly experience the consequences of the actions. but i wonder if migration is to are big enough of a challenge to influence the american approach, either to sanctions or to your own country for their own sake. well, the problem is, well, we seen in grow history in, in us politics, is that sometimes, whenever these election moments come and there's always a for in a adversary of some sort. and you know, either is it could be one day time when the russell or any other country, or it could be in the shape of migrants from anywhere in line america. this in this

case, because of the narrative, they have a negative narrative against when a sweller, you know, they're focusing on minnesota migrants. but, you know, been sort of not even the, the main source of migrants in the united states right now. in any case, a lot of that migration historically in our region, has to have to do with the intervention of the united states. now it's sanctions, but before you know, the, the, the cause, the, the sabotage to democratic government. so the just sitting aligned to their purposes that lets for people to seek uh, solutions and to seek them a north because at the end of the day you effect the economies in a way that people, you know, they, they want to look fuller, other economic possibilities so it's is, is a moment where there's that there must be a lot of reflection on the side of the you the be both of us to see where the real problems are, where the real, where they should focus their energies as not necessarily foreign threats. it's, it's the way it's functioning inside that they need to deal with. i don't know,

she would agree with that, but i think it is this perception of invincibility and that for daycare to allow the american political class to prove as impunity. and to sort of believe that that consequence, that actions don't have consequences. and if you look close, the whole concept of american exceptionalism is ultimately rooted in this idea that they are somehow above and beyond retribution. ah, my question to you is, what you're seeing me for sways not the american people, but the american, the leads that they're humans like anyone else. and therefore they shouldn't be constrain south, constrained by some notion of common responsibility or at least responsibility before the own. people think of their model, the current model has shown is not sustainable. i think the comically is not going to be sustainable in the long run. the again, the, the challenges are facing within the country. the goals of poverty, the now the,

you know, the growth of drug use so which has now become one of the main or the primary cost of, of the thing you use. and then i say, show that there's something essentially wrong with the system that there and, and that exceptionalism is not going to be the answer. i think. and also, you know, i use, you mentioned the leads were the, the fact that the people are realizing this, i think it's important because, you know, there is the, the given, say, this even a massive and imperialist movement. the we don't see in the media but, but that it does live in the united states and doesn't one's country to and it's government to abilities, actions. and i think that's growing every day. and, you know, sometime is going to reach those decision makers. there's gotta be new generations of, of lawmakers and to coming to us politics that, that focus on real people's problems that has to happen. you come from

a country with the stronger revolutionary tradition, but i think there comes a point for any country when revolution has to give way to do engine for, i mean revolutionary slogans and north. and now if you actually need to provide for your people and it's very hard and often times on and just on under appreciated work of governance, i sometimes wonder if the americans a stock and this revolutionary phase of thinking of themselves as of this and the shining st. you all on the hill without even caring off. but you know, working the fields or you know, the roads inside that the inside that you well i think there has to be a change of that exception of this mentality. but, but i think again the, the problems are they, they're going to encounter learning counseling right now in the streets are as well as going to do you think that change will come? because the, the american system as it exists today does not allow for it in my view. it's nice for a free and comprehensive expression of political will because

a choice between the 5 and then trump is with all due respect to the americans as a very poor and limited choice. well, there's other movements that i think are important within uh, you know, local uh, there's gotta be a gradual empowerment of people and it start is going to start is already started and you know, local levels to see different a different class. so of politicians in, in city councils and other places that are contesting some of these, a visual policies come from exceptionalism. it's a process and maybe maybe we're not going to see it next year or, or, you know, maybe in 1020 years it's, you know, it's sometimes these changes take a long time. but you can see that there's something rolling and, and that is that it has to come out because it's less the statement, the way they're doing it is not sustainable. well, uh, on this note mr. call us, we have to leave it there. but thank you very much for being with us. my pleasure.

thank you very much and thank you for watching hope to sir again and was a part of the the

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