shin jones, the hong kong, also 2 beds, south china seas where the u. s. is trying to distract a china from its economic progress by inserting these kind of military concerns. it's a game that the u. s. has played a many times before we call back in the seventy's or did this exact same thing with japan, although less on the military side. this isn't a bit of an attempt to contain china because the u. s. is concerned, as us young china trade grows. this becomes a competitive threat to the u. s. and the u. s. will react against anything military, political or economic. that is jesus a threat to a, to generate pertain to foster security forces have been actively working to dismantle a network of foreign funded individuals report only attempting to destabilize the country. as according to berg and not be government spokesperson of the snatch bulk

reaching holes, both serving and this about the soldiers, civilians inactivate some on all of this plan to destabilize the institution. so between a fall so and put a pro, they'll stop to the re foundation for the dignity process, the integrity, freedom and sovereignty of our con street assessment. to reduce it by government to end the properties, to innovate local press as pin 7. and sort of this and the cv on the plan in january 14 for i, that's a good survey of headquarters, of a citizen and monitoring for me. we have planned for him to demo, belies the corporate law support for refunds, press release. i do that to see really societies or the visual with supposed to receive x amount of funding of the big 5 invoice i sent over to acceptance fee. but i probably would not be or told it is the insured doctor entered into the services

and the defense and security policies which made it possible to answer up to this attempt to who i was i why is it in the institution investigation? i end up with and the address have been made without the details to on the profile of the food. appreciate. this is the 444 attempt against transitional. what can you do need by captain e, but i am salary in 15 months to say with our to international up next on the list of lawrence says, israel's response to the mazda type warranted, and how much longer can garza and the international community stand by chance by the,

the entire international community has been focused on the war in palestine since again on october 7th, while no civilized person supports terrorism, including acts of wanton violence against civilians. israel's response has been a mockery of international law in respect to human rights. tens of thousands of palestinians have been killed since the start of the conflict with 90 percent of them being civilians. and many more tens of thousands have been injured. there is not a single fully functioning hospital in garza and the world food program says that half of all palestinians face starvation on a scale not seen in decades. there are currently between 1200000 and 2000000 palestinian refugees on the border with egypt. the largest movement of refugees since the 2nd world war. with that said, these rarely government says that it will continue the war for months to come. and it's doing so with the full throated support of the united states. i'm john kerry

onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 more as always, awful, it's rarely justifiable either morally or legally. and even when governments attempt to justify it, they are rarely convincing. there is no excuse, for example, when a drone blows up a family or kills journalists or bombs a wedding. there is no excuse when innocent civilians are sheldon to oblivion or when rockets land on a church, a mosque or a hospital where civilians have taken refuge. there's no excuse when armies occupied villages, forcing people out of their homes. and if they're lucky into refugee camps, whoever 1st said that war is hell. certainly knew what he was talking about. and technological advances don't make more any nicer. they just make it deadlier. the rest of us rely on truth tellers and journalists to tell us what's happening on the

ground in more time. we only learn the truth about cambodia. for example, when john pills, your told us about it. we only learned what was really happening in vietnam, thanks to daniel ellsberg inside hearse. and we're now learning truths from guys. thanks to our next guest. we're very happy to have chris hedges with us today. chris is a pulitzer prize winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for 15 years from the new york times. he's an arabic speaker who served as the middle east bureau chief and later as the balkan bureau chief for the paper during the war in the former yugoslavia. he previously worked overseas in central america for the christian science monitor and p r and the dallas morning news. he's the host of the show, the chris hedges report, which is broadcast on the real news. you can also find his work at chris hedges dot sub stack dot com. chris, thanks so much for joining us. good to have the extra. thank you, chris. you've spent 7 years reporting from the middle east,

including gaza. you have a deep understanding of the issues that have shaped the region and you recently attempted to reach the border that divides guys from egypt with other international journalists to protest israel's blockage of form reporters from the strip and call for a ceasefire. so before we get into a more substantive discussion, tell us about that trip and why you, another journalist and photographers felt compelled to, to make that trip. because it's clearly is really policy to block coverage. how do they do that? they're constantly cutting off internet service electricity, phone service, and they have killed now over a 100 palestinian journalists. many of the eldest sometimes often that with their families. clearly targeting journalist just as they did was sharing abo offload from, i'll just euro, who was shot by in his really stipe or she got on the helmet and aflac jackets. so you have about an inch and a half space as you know. and uh,

and that is because the level of slaughter is something that we have not seen in decades. so i was in, sorry about during the war we were hit with 3 to 400 shells a day, you know, 4 to 5 data day, 2000 wounded a day. that's nothing compared to god where we're talking often upwards of 200 people being killed. a day, thousands of people wounded thousands more missing under the rubble. i think there's a statistic that says that every 10 minutes a child in gaza is killed. we've seen the pictures of child amputees. and so it's the level of killing that for those of us who have been as i have in the siege is just so unfathomable. and then also the fact that is real is working very, very hard to mask the extent of that carnage. so that's why it was run by the egyptian press syndicate. now, we did not get to russell, and we didn't get to rafa because according to the egyptian government,

they did not want an incident. israel is actually bombing the, the border at ross itself. and they have killed a, there was one strike that killed a gyptian soto reading 3. so all of the a trucks are about 6 kilometers back up the very border itself is being attacked. that, of course, is where many palestinians have had to flee. supposedly it was a safe area along with honda, eunice city. i know very well. so yeah, that was i think those of us who spent a lot of time is added covering gaza. and along with my colleagues that out to 0 and everyone else felt that we had to try to make some kind of protest of because the, the, the goal is clearly to frown this uh, these kinds of massacres um, from the rest of the world. united nations officials are telling us that some 90 percent of the deaths and injuries and guys are of civilians. fully half of

guidance are at risk of starvation, that's according to the world food program. 90 percent of guidance, eat one meal a day. there isn't a single, fully functioning hospital in the whole of garza and as many as 2000000 guidance or at the border with egypt trying to save themselves. there's no end in sight to any of this misery. aside from the so called thoughts and prayers that we see for most countries in the world, why are so few nations doing nothing for almost nothing to help the palestinians? is it a question of these. busy at least not permitting it or is there something else? it's well that the palestinians, their friend less and they're powerless. and so they don't have anyone to advocate for them. they've, this has long been true throughout the history of the 75 years of occupation and i include the or world, well, they rhetorically will say the right thing, but do nothing. so this just fits with that pattern. i do want to make it clear,

uh, having covered, armed conflicts for 2 decades, that this is not a war against hamas. and as you just on the statistics of starvation that you decided this is a war against the palestinians. and the goal is to create a humanitarian crisis of such extremity, literally starvation, the spread of infectious diseases. there is no se sanitation, there is no clean water. people are packed in the u. n. schools which are then off and bombed by the israelis. so what we're talking about cholera, we're talking about all sorts of and, and, and we are in the cause of seeing wholesale deaths, not just from the bombs uh, but from exposure from disease. and, and that is really the choice that is real and tends to offer the palestinians either death through one of these means or your ethnically cleansed. you wait and

there, there will reach a point of children dying parents watching their children, where the desperation will become. so extreme, this is i think the is really policy that they will be able to empty garza that has been stated publicly. oh yeah, just in hebrew, in english by many of the people around that and yahoo and i should stress that. uh this is the most extreme government. they are errors of the fascist stick. rabbi america, honda. when i was a lived in his real the cock party which he ran was actually outlawed. he was eventually assassinated. and but the strain of kind of jewish fascism is always been there going all the way back to vladimir job job. attend skate, who mussolini, called a good fax is. it's always been there. the route party, which was denounced by leading jewish intellectuals in the united states,

albert einstein. hannah aaron sydney hook, and others. they called it a fascist party, that's, that's the party, but nothing yahoo! his father belonged to and called for the complete ethnic, cleansing of palestinians from historic palestine. that strain has always been there within sign isn't but now it's triumphant. now it's taken over and uh they, they speak and in blood curdling language, they call alice stadiums and nazi's at, you know, human animals except we've all heard that kind of rhetoric. but don't, that's not a hyperbolic. i know them, i actually know b b, i mean that is what they believe. and when they talk about essentially the populating gaza, they mean it. and the only of power that has the ability to essentially stop at the united states. and that is quite literally because for instance, their tank shells are produced in the united states. right. if that kind of stuff is cut off, they can't carry out this genocide. but unfortunately,

especially the congress is, is bought and paid for by the israel lobby. and, and so i think those of us who have covered this conflict for a long time. uh, we, and i know, i gotta say every day its quite from attic. i mean, i see the pictures i recognize the streets. my office was in the center of garza city. it's it's, i think, you know, they may very well get away with it to help us understand us policy here, chris, i just don't understand the, the. ready on questioning, full throated support for israel that we see from the by the administration. the us is supposed to be the guardian of glow. busy busy of human rights. it's the country that mandates the human rights report every year for from every embassy that has all around the world. only someone who's blind deaf and dumb could misty human rights violations and crimes against humanity that are taking place in gaza. why does the us allow this to happen?

why do, why do washington policy makers jump up and down on some countries? and then what is real, get away with doing even worse? well, because of the money, i mean, you know, we live in a system of legalized bribery. right? biden is one of the largest recipients, i think may be the largest recipient of money from the israel lobby. so there's one because of the power of money to dominate the american political system. but also there's a cost if you attempt to stand up to the israel lobby. i mean, they've just talked about a $100000000.00 being used to take down rashid and to leave and others who have spoken out against the genocide. so, number one, the fact that of the corruption in congress and number 2 because they are politically powerful enough to bring you down. i think that's, that's a, that's why in terms of america while you've been overseas, as i have this is farcical. the idea that the united states to study, right?

but you know, it's interesting and you may have noticed, if you read the human rights reports out of the embassies, they're often very good. yes that's they are so like i cover, i lived in egypt and covered egypt, which does not have a great human rights record. but the report was good. i wrote the human rights. oh, the rain for solar. yeah, the reports are actually really good. nobody, the government, the u. s. government doesn't pay any attention to them. but that's, i always admire that people are right on because i, that's kind of my job is a good ellis. this, that's the final i already saw. they're actually not bad. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to continue our conversation with pulitzer prize winning journalist chris had just on the situation in gaza. please stay through the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the

. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry, uncle. we're speaking with chris hedges. one of the country's most renowned journalists, a pulitzer prize winner, and the former middle east bureau chief for the new york times. good to have you back with this, chris. thank you. thanks so much chris. these really connected recently took up legislation that you just kind of alluded to that would quote,

encourage palestinians in gaza to relocate to the various countries of the world and quote. and it was immediately endorsed by benjamin netanyahu. and by its even more right wing governmental partners, there's a phrase of course that describes a policy like this. that phrase is ethnic cleansing. is that what we're heading toward here? the forced relocation of the palestinian people? that's clearly the goal is we always call it transfer of, of but there's huge resistance within the world, of course. so nothing yahoo has publicly stated that they've been speaking to countries in africa, south america. and they've been reports that they will offer monetary inducements to accept refugees. when blinking anthony, blinking made his 1st trip to the middle east, the bag carrier for essentially the netanyahu government. and he met with president c. c in egypt, and della and jordan, and others. and attempted to sell them on this idea that they would accept

a certain number of palestinians, or they could roundly reject it. of course, um, fiercely by egypt. because if you add, as cc is pointed out, well if you want to move them out of because they're, they're saying that this is the, as well as the saying, this is humanitarian. a voluntary uh you know, exodus and humanitarian gesture and the cc 4 said, well don't put them in the egyptian sign, i want you put them in the negative, which is the desert that is real control. so once they leave causal, they'll never come back. that's clearly the goal. that's where they, they've stated that publicly. that's not secret. that is why their primary focus is making life a living hell for palestinian. i don't think that from all i can tell from a distance they've inflicted terrible damage on how mosse which functions is all a symmetrical. you know, the surgeon forces do hit and run small groups, all that kind of stuff. the palestinians have learned how to do that pretty well.

the same way has bella did when israel invaded southern lebanon, israel best it was a stalemate. many people would argue that it was real, essentially had to withdraw. so yes, this goes back to its focus is and that's why you're using, i mean, they talk about having to bomb hospitals, right? well, you know, because their tunnels would turned out under a cheaper there weren't any but right? but then if you know what, don't they go into the tunnels, i mean, you know, these, these kind of very obvious questions are not asked. so yes, that's clearly the policy. but there is huge resistance within the arab world. there actually, i had read a report. i think was out of elders 0, but there were quotas, apparently 700-0028 rack. 1.1000000 to all of which was rejected. there been reports in egypt impress that the united states has offered monetary for forgiveness of egypt and economy is not in good shape, but one in one point, a 161000000000 data or something like that. very, very big that. um uh, but if,

you know, if you have, let's say a 1000000 palestinians in egypt and sign it on the border, you are going to get cross border incursions on the part of the palestinian resistance. that means it's really air strikes in egypt. i mean, and, and the different government is well aware of that. so that is that the intent i think is clear what they can actually accomplish. we don't know, but that's what they're moving towards. and that's why they are of, you know, the whatever a gets in is token and also it can't get, get very far. it can't get much past raw, fun of so and you have, the desperation is such that what a truck to do get in are getting looted because people are so desperate like water and food and everything else. so that's, that's what is real wants the, by the ministration, certainly fully understands that they're trying to cover themselves by, you know, rhetorically saying, well, they should be more surgical in their strikes. uh,

you know, they shouldn't kill so many civilians. i think that is just cover for the body administration. rhetorical cover. um, but yes, that's the goal. and, and when nothing, yahoo talks about the war lasting months. and i think the reason is because for them that war is not want in till garza is ethnically cleansed. i think you're right, getting a little deeper into this refugee situation. the egyptians are adamant that they will not open the border to accept refugees, even on a temporary basis. the gulf arabs, the rockies as well, are adamant that they will not accept any more palestinians than what they have already. the jordanians, the same situation on the surface of things. it may seem cool to people who don't understand the history of the region. with that said, the reason that these countries aren't accepting refugees is that they took refugees in 1948. and those refugees were never allowed to go home again. is that

what we're seeing here, that, that these really just want to push them out forever. and they're happy to tell a lie or to have the americans tell belie that this is just a temporary move to, to try to, to have violence abated. yeah. well, i'm not even sure the israeli government is not calling a temporary even. i mean, they're quite upfront that these people are there, they're not offering any kind of a time limit by which they can return. so ethnic cleansing has been part of the design this project. since it's inception, yes. creation of the state of israel in 1948, you had 750000 palestinians pushed off of their land. many had been living there for hundreds of years. many of them ended up in gaza. uh and uh, and then after the 1967 war, when israel took the remaining parts of the of the west bank and gaza, the remaining parts of his store in palestine. another 350000 people were pushed in

to the ass broken. uh, but there's also been a slow motion ethnic cleansing, of thousands of palestinians are dispossessed every year. yes. so that's why, for instance, the jordanian army has moved up to the borders of the west bank because they don't want. so you have 5500000 palestinians under occupation, but you have another 9000000 palestinians outside historic palestine outside of israel in the diaspora. um and uh, and so it, it's very clear, it's not a, you know, that the number one, of course it's not going to be temporary if they're pushed out of but this creates obviously a kind of regional instability that the or world doesn't want to deal with me, chris, you have a piece on your sub stack in titled the death of israel in which you talk about how is real, was already at war with itself before october 7th. there were nationwide protests

against netanyahu's, so called judicial reform legislation, and the government, which remains in place is the most extremely right when government in israel's history, which says a lot the several ministers actually have felony convictions for hate crimes that they committed against palestinians. and even though countries usually rally around their leaders in times of war, netanyahu's, popularity was recently polled at just 15 percent. simply said something has to give. what do you think that's gonna look like war or no more things have to get ugly, right? well, if you go back and read, i think the most pressing and writers on his railway society, i'm thinking of yes, yahoo, leibowitz, for instance, absolutely fully understood where this was going. that when you essentially construct a society to build an occupation for us, then that's about the prisons and steps are wholesale surveillance and secret

police. and all of the accoutrements that come with any occupying force and that has a poisoning effect on your own society. and of it, and so we reached a point where the, especially with the nothing yahoo government, which is you correctly point out is the most extremist in is really history. where is we all had fracture largely a long, secular. and let's call it extreme. zion is religious lines. um, what israel remains, according to all opinion polls, and i believe they're true unified in terms of its assault against gaza. but that's a negative unity. it's a unity built around hate. yes. um, which is not sustainable, ultimately over the long term. and i think also internationally, israel's not going to recover from this, it will forever be associated with the victims,

the palestinian victims. it's kind of pretend since the only democracy in the middle east, which was always a lie. democracy was only for jews, not for anyone else. in israel, that it was kind of the bastion of western civilization. all of that is gone. and then we'll have democracy in the mid area. right. so you saw on the u. info, you had 10 countries. it was a non binding resolution, but you only have 10 countries stand with israel, and 2 of them are the united states and israel, so it will become more and more despotic. i think we should also be clear that nothing yahoo, in that opinion poll is telling us nothing. you, i was fully aware the day the warranty is finished. politically he's done. and so he has a very kind of twisted personal interest in continuing conflict because it, it retains and he retains power. right? and i think there's probably also this thought that if we de populate guys or the palestinians are gone. um uh, you know, this,

i think my guess is that he's thinking this may resurrect him. me politically. we can't forget the west bank. i mean the, the west bank itself is devolving into increasing violence. it's right on the palestinian authority, which is it was basically equivalent colonial government setup as well. no kind of credibility left with the pallet stay in some us. so one of the things that is real is done is drive a mazda of stock into the stratosphere. i mean, they've been the rest best recruiting weapon. i'm off as i cover the war and i'll solve it. it was, you know, and the best recruiting, the weapon, the f, and then i'll add with the desk quads, and that's the same idea. i mean, they're recruiting now in lebanon and all sorts of other places. so yeah, i, i think that is real. that, that it was always a mask. always a pretense, but that's going to be gone. uh and, uh, and, and the forces that control is real. we've already seen it with uh, you know,

human run until about jewish human rights groups and internal as they've all been targeted. yes, even history, a history teacher was put in jail for 4 days. were i've been putting something up on his private, on his side, or i don't know what it was about calling for a see as far as i mean. so, um, you know, that's such a great line from facilities about the scene in, in part of the tyranny athens and both on others and finally posed on a. so, remember, there are many parallels by the way, the united states st. oh, yes. indeed many parallels and, and also is this ramp it out of control militarism which is infected, the not the states but also infected israel. chris hedges, thank you so much for being with us. the last for noam chomsky once said that the wanton killing of innocent civilians is terrorism. it's not a war against terrorism. he's right. and it ought to be mister fine to all of us when governments either forget this or choose to ignore it. we didn't war against civilians is never right. promoting terrorism is never right. genocide and ethnic

cleansing are never right. and it is incumbent upon all of us to make sure that it ends. thank you for joining us for another episode of the width of lowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, the, the new, the deep that is between mazda 12 back border to default, the goal, something despite the fact that it's perhaps the district. busy but to that would work

the is really a strikes kill 5 military advisors that the rainy and revolutionary guard car in the syrian capital, damascus, is around, has gone as far as to create from us itself. yes, i'm us has been financed by these really govern the use up to implement accuse is a is really government of creating and sponsoring the laws to prevent formation of the palestinian states, the italian police whose water cannon and tear gas against protesters and the countries north during a pro palestinian protest.