is about god's am and all ukraine. these scheduled to meet you foreign ministers in brussels. how alienated from the world of the us, you nato allies, off to 4 percent of gods. this population is now dead. disappeared or wounded, completely divorced, completely divorced. the whole, particularly, the middle east is boiling with and they see these images every day. and they say children that are dead and they see bombs falling. right. i see the rubble pulling people out of the rubble. i mean it's, it's perfect is discussing. and so they are furious across the middle east and in the global south as well. i mean, it is a, is actually stirring up a very strong, sort of antique colonial picture like sentiment besides that. so when you talk about the international court of the 2 sections in, in the hague,

from many, and the global sizes is who's also you're up in america in the west that song on trial as well, full of what's happening in gossip. i mean, it's a straight across it's, it's creating something really quite important. i believe, in terms of a, a new sentiment, sentiment of, you know, we finished with the groaning, so we finished with a lot of this hedge. and we make the rules or we want to be solved for and we want to be independent. obviously the court, some people in the go was out believe is under trial as well after it has been seen by so much of humanity as a goal to, for the hedge fund, as, as you put in, come to think of it. the gold is in the netherlands, which gave it's backing. i've never heard of the netherlands, a navy, a gates backing for the strikes by britain in the united states on the m.

yes, i mean, that's right. i mean, but in fact, i mean, i think we should understand that it was actually a vote against it by most western states. i mean, it's away from spain. all said, no, we're not joining this person, of course was the front of the queue. so i guess we're ready for it and we'd like to join. but uh no, i don't think we're going to see this is a great success and mattress packed. and it's also sort of for all the posley because i don't think it a chief tennessee. in fact, i had one person, one commentate, had quoted her reputed missile strikes. i mean, it's nice to know that that's supposed to be therapeutic. you might be trying that on an garza, but i mean the therapeutic strikes. i think what he means and what the commentator was trying to suggest is, you know, again, this is the west kind of send a message. now, what's the message? i think it's quite complicated because quite can be this conflict with

israel at the center of it. these walls is about to become more intense. it's already wide, but it's going to become, i think, significantly more intense in the coming days. uh, that's it. i think means that there is homeless. that israel, unless something intervenes unexpected, is going to try and push has pulled up back across the river and economy. hey, most of the time the us and board failed to get any political agreement. and this really is a said repeatedly that they have all these displaced. um is riley's in hotels on the dead sea and they've got to go home and that means it has pulled out, has to be pushed behind the atomic. let me just say that makes no political military sense because of course, you know, has bullets ms. also not confined to the 28 kilometers between the lead time

a and the blue line of the size of let them i mean they have intermediates long range missile. so it doesn't really make much money to $0.03 anyway. but that's for israel once. and that's for the americas, given the green light to it. so what i think is really happening is that in a sense, um, we sold to begin with the object of the white house was ready to contain the conflict of costs to contain it. within garza and to give this all pretty well a free hand to try and eliminate from us as they describe it in gossip. but they didn't want it to expand it clearly. now they are coming to the conclusion. it is going to expand very likely, and that is the into lever. and so i think now what they're trying to do is sort of send messages to iran to iraq and they've been strengthening very strongly in recent days to sort of sites look, you know,

we don't want to wall with you. but don't campbell, don't allow this to become more intense, don't allow the war to widen. because i don't think the united states once a wall with a rock, they understand that that is a bridge to fall. but they wanted to make sure of that so that trying to attempt bit down and iraq in syria in him. yeah. and then i think that was really the purpose of these miss hall attacks was sending a message a whole. i mean, i don't think it was a very convincing message. well, i think some people would say they said too much, alex, what they did was send a message to me uh that uh, international shipping and commodities are more valuable than the children of gauze . and premiums have gone up. they must have known that was going to be retaliation is not going to make premiums go down and then close the on your point about as well or. and of course, in the past few days around has conducted these strikes into pakistan and, and iraq and syria. do you not think that every and it will surprise you as buller

some people in resistance movements in the region may be wondering whether there's a bit of bluff that's been going on since the victories of as we'll just say 11 and 926. and so on, they don't really reacting and some people saying, you know, we're on is attacking these most ad headquarters, you know, in groups like this, it should be doing well human does, you know, i disagree imposing. i think both ways saying here is there was an agreement amongst the for us, the actors, the access of resistance, whatever you want to call it the, the, this stage to this process that we're in the moment this conflict would be by consent that all the parties would consent to it, but then they would be free to do what they thought was necessary once it to be clear. it was, oh is this?

it was a desire to avoid the sliding into a major wall where we're going to see nation states all their infrastructure destroyed by bombing from the united states or from israel like we've seen happen in gaza. so the i'm was always to protect the nation, states itself, the structure of the nation state. and that would be the if you like the, the share and the actors like has buller and the unsolved law would be in the, at the front. and the nation state would be if, as much as possible, a pep dog to have it so that it didn't slip into a major war. and the 2nd part of it, and the end of a sudden, australia made this very clear and is for speech. she said, we're only gonna really get involved if we believe that how mazda is in trouble is about to,

to lose it straight. and that's not happening. and he did say this time and we so of who are beta, who speaks for some, but grace was saying, look, we've reached a 100 days, is time to increase the intensity. now this is a very calibrated process because you know, step by step up the ladder so that it doesn't, if you like, bring again ball to the middle east and destroy many people's was underscore needlessly. the infrastructure of the states and send us whole back even tend to us. so i think it's very costly calibration, and now we've moved to a period of greater intensity. we saw that they were on the striking base and focused on and in the rock. and indeed, the rock is striking into syria and against american bases in iraq. they were striking at murray from bases and syria to actually make yeah. so yes,

we're in the. yeah, it is american auto pine troops. yeah, no, no pets. these are income. i'm. i that may be clear to those who live in the global south and bricks nations and shanghai corporation organization countries. but you began actually by talking about the risk imagery coming from gaza censorship in west and your advisor was going to just quickly talk about less than your given you would advisor to the foreign policy. chief of the 6 crime allegations have been headed, baby stories, and they just sort of disappeared. i think a lot of to a lot of people who accosting doubts on them from the original attacks that last year as of on demand as already said, how mouse alone is responsible for what is happening. some of the support for is there any genocide from the council of your political committee? they all going to discuss it. apparently it was the end of this month. clear that west in your uh could be co conspirators in any conviction for genocide at the i. c,

j yes, i mean, this is a style of your up now and of america. the, you know, the, the main midst of the west that somehow we are culturally superior that we've inherited this from greek sold. and the, the for, you know, we have the right, the mandate to lead the well is over. and the west, most of the states just don't accept that. we all somehow have this election to leadership. and so we see all the west is fix to a narrative. it tries to get the winning narrative. well my husband is we have the winning narrative and they have a 20 metrics with which is not as good. and we repeat how narrative from the top to the very bottom, and every one, let's say the same, same narrative. of course,

what's happened in, in a rock in ukraine and elsewhere is the matter has been sold, who descended into deception and to blake, like on the part of the west pride trying to sustain these merits. it's the so they say all these things. and of course everyone understands no when they say as one deland, i think that russia is losing a new crate. i mean, it's our notes and so that, you know, on the says this is jessica, magical thinking. so this is, i, i mean, i think this is the case that we, the, we are suffering across the board. so all these things, casa ukraine, all of this, we must support the narrative. otherwise the west is finish because it's mrs. deteriorating is frank mentoring. and if it also loses the narrative, then well over it's done. well,

maybe that's what's coming anyway. maybe it'll be quite good for the west to go through the process of cut the losses and to try and regenerate itself in a new way. in this new year it will be not easy, not fun, but nonetheless, i think the west is so much in the, in the state of decline and deterioration that we do need some form of cause us. it's something to call to of which some green shoes possibly come the much caustic work. i'll stop you. the more from the former advisor, a middle east issues to e foreign policy. if you have a savannah, after this break, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the,

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with that was to grow. well, the british diplomatic founder and current director of the baby bass conflicts for him. a how so you were i don't know whether you are china ingram, she that because you're in a truly about the new is yet to be born and the, the end part one. since i'm speaking to you from the middle east though, and clearly it's being watch the depths of the old, the very close be here. the response from saudi arabia in the u. a has to be nuanced, clearly given rep rushmore with their on and syria. and what happened before a human now has the right to self defense under the u. n. john, clearly whereas israel has no right of self defense, of course, human has the right of self defense. israel doesn't. uh well, what's the likelihood of the us trying to use the united i remembered savvy arabia guitar you basis to launch then next to british an american ask strikes one young,

and i think it's highly unlikely because i don't think that any of the states really are looking for a resumption of the conflict with some unsolved and am a recall that they will software they will being recipients miss all attacks from yemen as various times when they've crossed the red line. as far as the m a nice concerns. so i think, as i say, you know, the understanding of the resistance axis is that it is not to cause a big more, it's not to destroy people's economy. it is a slow, if you like squeezing of the israel and the united states to the pointed which they have to stall in gossip. and it's also a by changing the power by breaking the whole power. but just to underline that,

i know that iran, for example, which is a sort of principle in the resistance texas and sits in the sort of the, the control room for the c operation office office, sent for it. i mean, this was consulting and reassuring sign. the reagan and making sure it's not in intro, it is not in the runs interest, it's not in saudi arabia's interest to have its own energy infrastructure destroyed . neither of them. and so i don't think there's really any likelihood that that's going to have those communication then. but how a goest must badging be looking at the destruction of world trade routes, which are going to be, was sent by these british and american aspects. not of somehow things are going to be best for the chinese economy because of this and of course, for exports from the persian gulf and gcc as well. so what you're saying there is

communication, but that kind of powerless to stop written in the united states, lessening this crisis escalated. i don't think, i mean china of course is watching. i mean, i think, you know, they have a long term vision and so they can see that what's going to come out of this is a new global ulta and it's going to be global older. and which china and russia are good to have a big se. so i don't think that that responsible to box it. but the other thing is that there are new trade routes. opening the optic root is opening for other routes, trade routes, dropping the north side of the card or is opening up. there are a lot of things that are open make that were intended. oh, it's from the beginning to sort of less of the couple a little bit from the cities come out, i'm from the show, the points which the west sits, all so i don't think no, i think they understand what's going on perfectly well. i mean, they'll be some people who have some loss, but as far as i understand, you know,

if it's chinese vessels who are not landing in israel, or if it's fresh and bustle. supposing through the red sea on hand, i mean clearly scandinavian members of nato in the wake of the ukraine. that was part of the american response to those arctic roots then. but then what about mahmoud abbas, who sits there in jerusalem? we've seen this arithmetic situation in the west bank and in jerusalem is american protection of a boss all it is really stuffing the why is us not being killed? i to are you to know. so i can say is, i think is of westbank is on the brink of explosion, which could have been so rarely on the knife edge, the attention. there is a huge and i don't know. and is it american protection? right. i don't know. i imagine it just, i imagine is protected because he's not useful for the americans and for the west.

but i mean, he is completely ignored and disliked by 90 percent of the palestinians. so i mean, he's a good, relevant, it's not really important. i mean with a he sits in the mikado, not, i mean, it's not something worthy to waste much time on. and as for the censorship in western europe and to american populations, maybe there's less sense as you back to me and then i didn't states because it seems to me that the demonstrations a bigger there for about a students all the data g. then there are in the west and you are a java or sad that whole session on information wolf or is it. and they beginning to fail the big silicon valley of censorship, organizations, high tech censorship organizations. and they, as the palestine managed to break through the sensor, i'm not entirely, i mean, you know, sitting here and in europe in western europe. i mean the, the,

the 1st day of the culture of justice and the hey, was not covered by western media main street media. i mean b, b, c, sky. they ignored it and concentrated only on it and return to it only on the 2nd day when israel was presenting its defense. so it is still very much everything is locked on. you're not allowed to refer to the south african case that they might take very coaching because yeah, i might say from the, particularly from the the, the irish lawyer. she was fantastic. and she argued on live on legal tops, which was really important and not just diverse, it into sort of solely emotional feelings. yeah. but i was thinking state department when they were just, i mean they didn't deny it about being worried that they could be done for co conspirators. what happens then?

i mean, i mean, i suppose the generically just as has shown such bosh ality in previous years of its existence. can you really, can we for see blinking bus me being held liable along with joe biden for aging genocide? and can we see countries like britain and astray? leah being told that they failed in their obligations to prevent genocide. i think, you know, the, i think there are 2 aspects here. i mean quite clearly. so, you know, we've had problems with what is a criminal act in terms of the lowest of the war vices for me, of cause and apparently western states, if you like, come involved in that and we have the same with the genocide case. no, i think so. as i understand it, they, it's

a majority both when it comes, but it might be some time to that comes from so it could be a cellphone or something like that or not. and i don't think we're going to see america in the adult somehow. they still have a privilege. the exception is position, even though they're not positive. i mean, you are advisor to the foreign policy of your equipment, and i mean, you'd be advising joseph burrell, and i don't know whether you'd be thinking, preparing to, you know, be done for trends. as i guess, you'd be advising that you form policy to once a situation i, i will be saying that the, the european position on what is happening in casa, is atrocious, and is entirely wrong. and they need to understand they can simply stand by that position that we stand with israel and read every single face context

as if you know, the, the incident, what happened only has happened on the 7th of october and there was no before and no wide uh, context of this, this was just something that, you know, that was done by a small group, and then they attribute it like, this is the same thing. they do, and you crave, you know, russia southern movie illegally, the heart, decided to invade, you print as it still was no history as this noise in the background. there was no 2014, there was no, my movement include data. i mean, this is, this is how they do politics. it and that has consequences because the consequences that they don't see a big time to hear what the rest of the world is saying to them. because they say no, no, this is in there. this is what happens. we system, this is a narrative. no, there's no question. there's no of, there's no other any of these exercises. this is american. but when you do that,

you can't hear you, you, you lost the ability to, to emphasize or listen to what other people are saying. they come even listen to what the russian say anymore. no, no, no, we don't, you always live. we don't pay any attention to what you said. i should. i should say that i, i follow to exactly. i started by saying, well, john list were killed in garza so farther than the whole of world war 2 gonzalgo lira the us jen, this, the state department appears not to have helped us join this money by zalinski is a torturer is a so is a p as rooms a, because i don't, there is a parents is indicative of, uh, how little the united states protects us. citizens if they go against the narrative and dangerous for us nationals around the world. if they do not agree with us, you know, i mean, of course, for gonzalez,

it was liesl booked for i think, all countless and indeed all people who comment and say things truthfully, with any integrity, are at risk. yes. i mean, here in new in europe, i mean, you know, you can be cancelled. you can be penalized in many ways. or the most obvious one is that you'll just me a, with somebody legation, usually and navigation that's of a sexual nature in order to damage your reputation for good. so, i mean, this is, and in fact the whole of the, of the main topic, the paper that they sent out was how dangerous it takes. and we must do more to stop this information. i mean it's mentioned time and time again about how i what the main focus must be. how do we 40 percent of that was the population we're going to election this year and only 10 percent chance of them getting it right. and

therefore, we must all this information mile information from taking root. well, i think that's so name of the store. many, many will be hoping that uh, yeah, judy is on his case. uh, if it comes in february is more important than those people in davos just finally then. so the way you're talking, i mean, by the end of 2024, then complete defeats violent from nato and ukraine. nicholas tail made still in british media, and that's already happened. and it's happened. i mean, maybe incomplete the defeated. but what about china? they going to desperately start going into the stop trying to see what they're going to be too frightened to move. concentrating on the u. s. selections, as a, he's up, you know, china is in a different position from russia because china is a big trading country. and, you know, it's led to some lessons. i mean, i was in russia recently and you know, there are no channels of communication with russia. i was told that the vice level that, you know,

there's nothing they treat us like the enemy rates near excess. and i think china looks at this, and it has no illusions about, do you not with united states, even with the, you know, asian support, the united states in china. but the same time, they don't want to get into that position where you know, over channels of communication arcot because they are a big trading nation and they've got different interest rusher, understands that china are on the stand side. but they still work very closely together as the correct. thank you and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by the u. k. u s. back slaughter and guys, and we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by roll official media. if it's all tents and in your country and had to have channel going on, even on tv,

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the hello and welcome to the cross stuff. for here we discussed some really the the well state of absolute college here in the queue. rogue district of don't yet safety which came on the heavy, shedding vall, ukrainian co pays distressing and part of fine images from the capital city of that then yet script public and for 27 civilians are killed house ukraine shells, a busy market on sunday morning also it takes not just any sample that says panful that holds the great political, historical, spiritual, and cultural significance. putting both filling a long health pledge indian prime minister and are rendered moody prefers to in v like grum. hindu temple in the countries north built on