to a brand new season of going underground pool guessing all around the world for me to buy in the hearts of them, at least over $100.00 days have passed since the onset of young, the american backed war on guns and 65000 tons of bones 3 times the power of your machine and i have now killed at least 24000 palestinians, mostly women and children. will john less to one of them trying to bypass nature nation propaganda and censorship. have now been killed in gaza. then john list all around the globe and the whole of world war 2. and yet to washington and that kind europe and states continued to back. israel now facing genocide charges initiated by south africa and backed by the arab league at the international court of justice . the by the ministration is being bypassing congress to approve weapons sales, to killed the children of gauze, and then turn them with britain, both backing israel strikes in jerusalem and 11 in syria and iraq. they have a really bombarded the world's poorest country m and which defacto sanctioned israel in shipping and supportive un resolutions one, palestine joining me now from roman italy is for my british diplomat allister crook . he was once middle east advisor to the army and unions,

foreign policy chief and his not director of the baby based conflicts for him. thank you so much for coming back. i was so happy new year, obviously. not happy with it. yeah. yeah. it's always going to have the view. yeah . for many people. so i'm not quite sure if the schedule attendance of the saudi foreign minister up in spiteful is about god's a human or ukraine. these scheduled to meet you foreign ministers in brussels. how alienated from the world of the us, you nato allies of to 4 percent of gods. this population is now dead, disappeared or wounded, a completely divorced, completely divorced. so ho, kicking to leave. the middle leaves is boiling with and they see these images every day. and they say children that are dead and they see bones phoning, very see the rubble pulling people out of the rubble. i mean it's, it's perfect. it's disgusting. and so they are furious costs, the middle east,

and in the global south as well. i mean, it is a, is actually stirring up a very strong, sort of antique colonial issue like sentiment besides that. so when you talk about the international court of a, to a section, then in the hague, from many, and the global side of it is who's also you're up in america in the west that song on trial as well, for well, for what's happening in gaza. i mean is for page right across it's is creating something really quite important, i believe in terms of a new sentiment, sentiment of, you know, we finished with the groaning, so we finished with a lot of this hedge. and that makes the rules, or we want to be solved for and we want to be independent. obviously the court, some people in the go was out believe was under trial as well after it has been seen by so much of humanity as a goal to, for the hedge fund. as you put in,

come to think of it. the gold is in the netherlands, which gave it's backing. i've never heard of the netherlands, a navy, a gates backing for the strikes by britain in the united states only em yes, i mean, that's right. i mean, but in fact, i mean, i think we should understand that it was actually a vote against it by most western states. i mean, it's away from spain. all said, no, we're not joining this person, of course was the front of the queue. so i guess we're ready for it and we'd like to join. but uh no, i don't think we're going to see this is a great success and mattress packed. and it's also a sort of for all the puzzling because i don't think it a chief tennessee. in fact i had one person, one commentate had quoted her reputed missile strikes. i mean, it's nice to know that that's supposed to be therapeutic. you might be trying that

on the gossip, but i mean, the therapeutic strikes. i think what he means and what the commentator was trying to suggest is, you know, again, this is the west kind of send a message. now, what's the message? i think it's quite complicated because quite can be this conflict with israel at the center of it. these walls is abide to become more intense. it's already wide, but it's going to become i think, significantly more intense in the coming days. a that's it. i think means that there is homeless, that israel, unless something intervenes unexpected, is going to try and push has bullet back across the river. the autonomy a hey most of the time the us and for fail to get any political agreement. and the israelis of said repeatedly that they have all these displaced is riley's

in hotels on the dead sea, and they've got to go home and that means it has pulled, it has to be pushed behind the autonomy. let me just say that makes no political military sense because of course, you know, has boys miss allison not confined to the 28 kilometers between the lead time a and the blue line of the size of let them, i mean, they haven't immediate long range missile so it doesn't really make much ministry sense anyway, but as for israel once, and that's for the americas, given the green light to it. so what i think is really happening is that in a sense um, we sold to begin with the object of the white house was ready to contain the conflict of costs to contain it within garza. and to give israel pretty well, a free hand to try and eliminate how much to say describe it in gossip, but they didn't want it to expand it clearly. now they are coming to the conclusion

. it is going to expand very likely. and that is going to lever. and so i think now what they're trying to do is sort of send messages to iran to iraq. and they've been strengthening very strongly in recent days to sort of say, look, you know, we don't want to wall with you. but don't campbell, don't allow this to become more intense, don't allow the war to widen. because i don't think the united states once a wall with a rock, they understand that that is a bridge to fall. but they wanted to make sure of that so that trying to attempt bit down in iraq and in syria in the, in the month. and i think that was really the purpose of these miss hall attacks was sending a message to help. i mean, i don't think it was a very convincing message. well, i think some people would say they said too much on it. what they did is send a message to me uh that uh,

international shipping and commodities are more valuable than with children of gaza . and premiums have gone up, they must have known that was going to be retaliation is not going to make premiums go down and then close the on your point about as well or. and of course, in the past few days, iran has conducted these strikes into focused on and, and iraq and syria. do you not think that every and it will surprise you as buller some people in resistance movements in the region may be wondering whether there's a bit of bluff that's been going on since the victories of as well. the just have 11 in 926 and so on. they don't really reacting and some people saying, you know, we're on is attacking these the most ad headquarters. you know, in groups like this. it should be doing what human does. you know, i disagree imposing. i think both ways saying here is there was an agreement amongst the front, the actors, the access of resistance,

whatever you want to call it, the, the, this stage, this process that we're in the moment this conflict would be by consent that all of the parties would consent to it, but then they would be free to do what they thought was necessary once it to be clear. and it was, oh is this? it was a desire to avoid the sliding into a major war where we're going to see nation states all their infrastructure destroyed by bombing from the united states or from israel like we've seen happen in gaza. so the i'm was always to protect the nation, states itself, the structure of the nation state. and that would be the, if you like the, the share of the act is like has buller and the unsolved law would be in the, at the front. and the nation state would be if, as much as possible, kept officers of it so that it didn't slip into

a major war. and the 2nd part of it, to the end of a sudden, the astronomy this very clear and is for speech. she said, we're only gonna really get involved if we believe that how mazda is in trouble, is about to, to lose it straight. and that's not happening. and he did say this time, and we saw of who are beta, who speaks for some, but graves was saying, look, we've reached a 100 days, is time to increase the intensity. now this is a very calibrated process because you know, step by step up the ladder so that it doesn't, if you like, bring again bowl to the middle east and destroy many people's because underscore needlessly the infrastructure of states and send us whole back, you know, tend to us, so i think it's very tacitly calibration,

and now we've moved to a period of greater intensity. we saw that they were on the striking base and focused on and in the rock. and indeed, the rock is striking into syria and against american bases in iraq. they were striking at murray some basis and syria to i should make. yeah. so yes, we're in the. yeah, it is american auto pine troops. yeah, no, no pets. these are income i, i, that may be clear to those who live in the global south and bricks nations and shanghai corporation organization countries. but you began actually by talking about the rhetoric imagery coming from gaza censorship in west and your advisor was going to just quickly talk about less than your given. you would advise that to the foreign policy. chief of the 6 crime allegations have been headed. baby stories and they just sort of disappeared. i think a lot of to a lot of people were costing doubts on them from the original attacks that last

year. let's move on to land. as already said, thomas alone is responsible for what is happening. some of the support for is there any genocide from the council of your political committee? they all going to discuss this. apparently it was the end of this month. clear that west in your could be co conspirators in any conviction for genocide at the i. c. j i, yes, i mean, this is a style of your up now and of america. the, you know, the, the main midst of the west that somehow we are culturally superior that we've inherited those from greek sold. and the, the for, you know, we have the right, the mandate to lead the well is over. and the west, most of the states just don't accept that. we all somehow have this election to leadership. and so we see the west is fix to

a narrative. it tries to get the winning narrative. well my has is we have the winning narrative and they have a 20 narrative which is not as good. and we repeat, found narrative from the top to the very bottom. and every one, let's say, the same, same narrative. of course, what's happened in, in iraq, in ukraine and elsewhere is the matter to have been sold, who descended into deception and to bleed like on the part of the west pride trying to sustain these merits. it's the so they say all these things, and of course everyone understands no when they say, as of on demand, i think that russia is losing a new crate. i mean, it's our nonsense that for you know long, but the says this is jessica, magical thinking. so this is i, i mean, i think this is the case that we but we are suffering across the board. so all

these things, garza, ukraine, all of this, we must support the narrative. otherwise the west is finish because it's mrs. deteriorating is frank mentoring. and if it also loses the narrative, then well over it's done. well, maybe that's what's coming anyway. maybe it'll be quite good for the west to go through the process, cut the losses to try and regenerate itself in a new way. in this new year it will be not easy, not fun, but nonetheless, i think the west is so much in the, in the state of decline. and terry issue that we do need some form of a sausage, something to college, of which some green shoes possibly can be much caustic work. i'll stop you. the more from the former advisor, a middle east issues to e foreign policy. if you have a savannah, after this break, the

the the, the band list to go ahead the,

the quote assumption must, i'm not sure, but after the civil war to cancel the somebody, even if i video are students to, to go to check on board is showing that emission here and then we left for the children to talk to the movie available, solution accessible was in your total for the so was this the welcome back to going underground? i'm still here with that was to grow. well, the british diplomatic founder and current director of the baby based conflicts for

him. so you were a, i don't know whether you a child ingram. she that because you're in a truly about the new is yet to be born. and the, the end part one. since i'm speaking to you from the middle east though, and clearly it's being watch the death of the old, the very close be here. the response from saudi arabia in the u. a has to be nuanced, clearly given repression will be there on, in syria. and what happened before you have and now has the right to self defense under the un job to clearly whereas israel has no right of self defense. of course a human has the right of self defense. israel doesn't, uh well, what's the likelihood of the us trying to use the united i remembered saudi arabia guitar you basis to launch then next to british an american ask strikes on human that. i think it's highly unlikely because i don't think that any of those dates really are looking for a resumption of the conflict with some unsolved and am

a recall that they will salsa day will being recipients of miss on attacks from yemen as various times when they cross the red line as far as the m a nice concerns . so i think, as i say, you know, the understanding of the resistance axis is that it is not to cause a big more. it's not to destroy people's economy. it is a slow if you like, squeezing all the israel and the united states to the point at which they have to stall in gaza. and it's also about changing the power to breaking the whole power. but just to underline that, i know that iran, for example, which is a sort of principle in the resistance access and sits in the sort of the,

the control room for the see operation, office soft center for it. i mean, this was consulting and reassuring sign. the reagan and making sure it's not in intro, it is not in the runs interest, it's not in saudi arabia's interest to have its own energy infrastructure destroyed . neither of them. and so i don't think there's really any likelihood that that's going to have those communication then. but how a goest must badging be looking at the destruction of world trade routes? would you're going to be worse than to buy these british and american as strikes not of somehow things are going to be best for the chinese economy because of this, and of course, for exports from the persian gulf and gcc as well. so what you're saying there is communication, but that kind of powerless to stop written in the united states, lessening this crisis escalated. i don't think,

i mean china of course is watching. i mean, i think, you know, they have a long term vision and so they can see that what's going to come out of this is a new global holder. and is going to be a global order in which china and russia are good to have a big se. so i don't think that that responsible to box it. but the other thing is that there are new trade routes. opening the optic root is opening. there are other routes, trade routes, dropping the north south car doors opening up. there are a lot of things that are open make that were intended. oh. as from the beginning to sort of less of the couple a little bit from the cities come out. i'm from the show, the points which the west sits, all so i don't think no, i think they understand what's going on perfectly well. i mean, they'll be some people who have something else. but as far as i understand, you know, if it's chinese vessels who are not landing in israel, or if it's fresh and bustle. supposing through the red sea on hand,

i mean clearly scandinavian members of nato in the wake of the ukraine. that was part of the american response to those arctic roots then. but then what about mahmoud abbas, who sits there in jerusalem? we've seen this a roofing situation in the west bank and in jerusalem is american protection of a boss. all it is really stopping the why is us not being killed? i don't. are you to know? all i can say is, i think it's of westbank is on the brink of explosion, which could have and so rarely on the knife edge, the tension there is huge and i don't know. and is it american protection? i don't know. i imagine it just, i imagine is protected because he's, you know, useful for the americans and for the west. but i mean, he is completely ignored and dislike by 90 percent of the palestinians. so, i mean, he's a good, relevant, it's not really important. i mean,

whether he sits in the mikado, not, i mean, it's not something worthy to waste much time on. and as for the censorship in western europe and to american populations, maybe there's less sense as you back from united states because it seems to me that the demonstrations a bigger that for about a students all a direct even there are in the west and your a a job of us had the whole session on the information wolf or is it and they beginning to fail the big silicon valley of censorship, organizations, high tech censorship organizations. and they, as the palestine managed to break through the censor. i'm not entirely, i mean, you know, sitting here and in europe in western europe. i mean the, the, the 1st day of the course of justice and the hey, was not covered by western media main street media. i mean bbc

sky. they ignored it and concentrated only on it and return to it only on the 2nd day when israel was presenting its defense. so it is still very much everything is locked on. you're not allowed to refer to the south african case that they might have very coaching the i might say from the, particularly from the the, the irish lawyer. she was fantastic. and she argued on live on legal tops, which was really important and not just diverse. it into sort of solely emotional feelings. yeah. but lincoln state department when they were just, i mean they didn't deny it about being worried that they could be done for co conspirators. what happens then? i mean, i mean, i suppose the district would have just as shown, such pos shall, as in previous years of its existence. can you really,

can we foresee blinking bus me being held liable along with joe biden for aging genocide? and can we see countries like britain and astray? leah being told that they failed in their obligations to prevent genocide. i think, you know, the, i think there are 2 aspects here. i mean quite clearly. um, you know, we've had problems with what is a criminal act in terms of the lowest of the war vices for me, of cause and apparently western states if you like, come involved in that and we have the same with the genocide case. no, i think so. as i understand it, they, it's a majority both when it comes, but it might be some time to comes something. so it could be a cellphone or something like that or not. and i don't think we're gonna see

america in the adult somehow. they still have a privileged and exception this position, even though they're not positive. i mean, you are advisor to the foreign policy to have your equipment. and i mean, you'd be advising joseph burrell, and i don't know whether you'd be thinking, preparing to, you know, be done for trends as i guess you'd be advising that you form policy to once a situation i, i will be saying that the, the european position on what is happening in casa is atrocious, and is entirely wrong. and they need to understand they can simply stand by that position that we stand with israel and read every single phase of context as if you know, the, the incident. what happened only has happened on the 7th of october, and there was no before and no wide uh, context of this. this was just something that, you know, that was done by

a small group, and they attribute it like, this is the same thing. they do. and ukraine, you know, russia southern movie illegally, the heart, decided to invade, you print as if there was no history of this noise in the background. there was no 2040, there was no, my movement include data. i mean, this is, this is how they do politics. it and they, it has consequences because the consequences that they don't see a big time here, what the rest of the world is saying to them. because they say no, no, this is in there. this is what happens. we system, this is a narrative. no, there's no question. there's no other, there's no other any of these exercises. this is american. but when you do that you can't hear you, you, you lost the ability to, to emphasize or listen to what other people are saying. they come even listen to

what the russians say anymore. no, no, no. we don't. you always live. we don't pay any attention to what you said. i should say that i, i fall optics. luckily i started by saying, well jen list were killed in gaza. so farther than the whole of world war 2 gonzalo lira the us john, this, the state department appears not to have helped us to, i'm less money advisor lensky is a torturer, is a. so is a p as rooms a, because i don't, there is a parents indicative of, uh, how little the united states protects us. citizens if they go against the narrative and dangerous for us nationals around the world. if they do is not agree with us, you know, i mean of course uh, so gonzales, sierra it, it was leased. so. um, but for i think all generous and indeed all people who comment and say things truthfully with any integrity are at risk. yes. i mean, here and euro,

i mean, you know, you can be cancelled. you can be penalized in, in many ways. or the most of this one is that you'll just smear with somebody vacation, usually and navigation depths of a sexual nature in order to damage your reputation. for good, so i mean, this is an, in fact, um, the whole of the, of ups, the main topic, the paper that they sent out was how dangerous it is. and we must do more to stop this information. i mean, it's mentioned time and time again about how what the main focus must be. how do we 40 percent of that was the population are going to election this year and only 10 percent chances, i'm guessing it right. and therefore, we must, all this information on mile information from taking root. well, i think that so name of the style many, many will be hoping that uh, yeah,

judy is on his case. uh, if it comes in february is more important than those people in davos just finally then. so the way you're talking, i mean by the end of 2024, then complete the feeds violent from nato and ukraine. nicholas tail mate still in british media. right. and it's already happened and it's happened, i mean, maybe incomplete, the defeated. but what about china? they going to desperately start going into the slab, trying to see what they're going to be too frightened and more concentrating on the us elections as a, he's up. as you know, china is in a different position from russia because china is a big trading country. and you know, it's one some lesson. so, i mean, i was in russia recently and you know, there are no channels of communication with russia. i was told that the vice level that, you know, there's nothing they treat us like the enemy, they just need eric. that's, and i think china looks at this, and it has no illusions about to unite with the united states and whether you know,

english and support the united states in china. but the same time, they don't want to get into that position where you know all the channels of communication arcot because they are a big trading nation and they've got different interest rusher, understands that china are on the stand side, but they still work very closely together. as a good, thank you and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by the u. k. u s. back slaughter and guys, and we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then give it to us by wireless as a media. if it's not sense and in your country and add to that channel going under warranty, the normal don't come to what's new and old episodes of going undergrad sees after the

hello and welcome to the cross stuff full born here we discussed some real in the state of absolute college here in the care of the district of don't yet city which came on the heavy, shedding by ukrainian forties. distressing horrifying images from the capital of the city of that done. yeah, it's republican board 27 civilians are killed as ukraine shelves. a busy market also, it keeps not just any templates, it's temple. that whole is great political, historical, spiritual, and cultural significance ranges from hidden do temple is own failed in northern india, controversially built on that site. that once, how is that mosque? the destruction of which led to nationwide deadly riots. astray dogs in terms of afraid of teaching the flesh of the dogs since the.