things they see the rubble pulling people out of the rubble. i mean it's, it's hard. her ethic is disgusting. and so they are furious across the middle east and in the global south as well. i mean, it is a, is actually stirring up a very strong, sort of antique colonial issue like sentiment besides that. so when you talk about the international court of a, to a section, then in the aid from many and the global side of it is who's also you're up in america in the west. that song on trial as well for awful. what's happening in gossip. i mean, it's a straight across it's, it's creating something really quite important. i believe in terms of a, a new sentiment, a sentiment of, you know, we finished with the groaning, so we finished with all of this hedge and what makes the rules, or we want to be solved for and we want to be independent. obviously the court,

some people in the go was out believe was on the trial as well after it has been seen by so much of humanity as a cool to for the hedge fund, as, as you put in come to think of it, the gold, his in the netherlands, which gave its backing. i've never heard of the netherlands, a navy, a gates backing for the strikes by britain in the united states on you m yes, i mean, that's right. i mean, but in fact, i mean, i think we should understand that it was actually a vote against it by most western states. i mean, it's away from spain. all said, no one, not joining this person, of course was at the front of the queue. so i guess we're ready for it and we'd like to join. but uh no, i don't think we're going to see this is a great success and mattress packed. and it's also a sort of for all the puzzling because i don't think it a chief tennessee. in fact,

i had one person one come and take it courted her reputed missile strikes. i mean, it's nice to know that that's supposed to be therapeutic. you might be trying that on the gossip, but i mean, the therapeutic strikes. i think what he means and what the commentator was trying to suggest is, you know, again, this is the west trying to send a message. now, what's the message? i think it's quite complicated because quite can be this conflict with israel at the center of it. these walls is about to become more intense. it's already wide, but it's going to become, i think, significantly more intense in the coming days. a that's it. i think means that there is homeless, that is trail, unless something intervenes unexpected is going to try and push has bullet back across the river on the economy. hey,

most of the time the us and board failed to get any political agreement. and this really is a said repeatedly that they have all these displaced. um is riley's in hotels on the dead sea and they've got to go home and that means that has the pool that has to be pushed behind the economy. let me just say that makes no political military sense because of course, you know, has bullets mis house and not confined to the 28 kilometers between the lead time a and the blue line of the size of let them know. i mean, they have intermediates long range missile, so it doesn't really make much military sense anyway, but as far as ro, once that's for the americas, given the green light to it. so what i think is really happening is that in a sense we sold to begin with the object of the white house was ready to contain the conflict of costs to contain it with in gaza. and to give this real

pretty want a free hand to try and eliminate how much to say describe it in gossip, but they didn't want it to expand it clearly. now they are coming to the conclusion . it is going to expand very likely, and that is going to lever. and so i think now what they're trying to do is sort of send messages to iran to iraq and they've been strengthening very strongly in recent days to sort of say, look, you know, we don't want to wall with you. but don't campbell don't allow this to become more intense, don't allow the war to whiten. because i don't think the united states once a wall with a rock, they understand that that is a bridge to fall. but they wanted to make sure of that so that trying to attempt that down in iraq and in syria in him. yeah. and then i think that was really the purpose of these miss hall attacks was sending a message to help. i mean,

i don't think it was a very convincing message. well, i think some people would say, they said too much, alex, what they did was send a message to me. uh that uh, international shipping and commodities are more valuable than the children of garza and the premiums have gone up. they must have known that was going to be retaliation is not going to make premiums go down and then close the on your point about as we'll learn. of course, in the past few days, iran has conducted these strikes into pakistan and um, and iraq and syria. do you not think that every is it will surprise you as well? a, some people in resistance movements in the region may be wondering whether there's a bit of bluff that's been going on since the victories of his will just have 11 and 926 and so on. they don't really reacting and some people saying, you know, we're on, is attacking these most ad headquarters, you know, in groups like this, it should be doing more human. does, you know,

i disagree imposing. i think both ways saying here is there was an agreement amongst the front, the actors, the access of resistance, whatever you want to call it the, the, this stage, this process that we're in the moment this conflict would be by consent that all of the parties would consent to it, but then they would be free to do what they thought was necessary once it to be clear. it was, oh, is this? it was a desire to avoid the sliding into a major war where we're going to see nation states all their infrastructure destroyed by bombing from the united states or from israel like we've seen happen in gaza. so the i'm was always to protect the nation, states itself, the structure of the nation state. and that would be the, if you like, the, the militia or the act is like has buller and the unsolved law

would be in the front and the nation states with the, if, as much as possible, kept dogs who have it so that it didn't slip into a major war and the 2nd part of it, and the end of a sudden, australia made this very clear and is 1st speech. she said, we're only gonna really get involved if we believe that, how mazda is in trouble is about to, to lose it straight. and that's not happening. and he did say this time and we, so i bought a beta who speaks for some, but grace was saying, look, we've reached a 100 days, is time to increase the intensity. now this is a very calibrated process because you know, step by step up the ladder so that it doesn't, if you like, bring um a get bull to the middle east and destroy many people. slow because underscore

needlessly the infrastructure of states and send us whole back, you know, tend to us. so i think is very tacitly calibration and now we've moved to a period of greater intensity. we saw that they were on the striking base in focused on and in the rock. and indeed the rock is striking into syria and against american bases in iraq. they were striking at murray from basis, syria to actually make the so yes, we're in the. yeah, it is american auto pine troops. yeah, no, no pets. these are income i, i, that may be clear to those who live in the global south and bricks, nations and shanghai corporation, organization countries. but you began actually by talking about the rhetoric imagery coming from gaza censorship in uh, west and your advisor was going to just quickly talk about less than your given you were the advisor to the foreign policy. chief of the 6 crime allegations have been

headed, baby stories, and they just sort of disappeared. i think after a lot of people were cussing doubts on them from the original attacks that last year. let's move on to land. as already said, how mouse alone is responsible for what is happening. some of the support for is there any genocide from the council of your political committee? they all going to discuss it. apparently it was the end of this month. clear that western europe uh, could be co conspirators in any conviction for genocide at the i. c j. yes, i mean, this is the style of your up now and of america. the, you know, the, the main mess of the west, that somehow we are culturally superior that we've inherited this from greek sold. and the, the for, you know, we have the right, the mandate to lead the well is over. and the west, most of the states just don't accept that. we all somehow have this

election to leadership. and so we see ball or west is fix to a narrative. it tries to get the winning narrative. well, my has is we have the winning narrative and they have a one key metrics, which is not as good. and we repeat how narrative from the top to the very bottom and every one, let's say the same, same narrative. of course, what's happened in, in a rock in ukraine and elsewhere is, you know, is that not or to have been sold has descended into deception into places like on the part of the west pride trying to sustain these merits. it's the so they say all these things, and of course everyone understands, you know, when they say as fund deland, i think said a rush who is losing a new crate. i mean it's are not since you know long, but the says this is just kind of magical thinking. so this is i, i mean,

i think this is the case that we the, we are suffering across the board. so all these things, garza ukraine, all of this, we must support the narrative. otherwise the west is finish because it's mrs. deteriorating is frank mentoring. and if it also loses the narrative, then well over it's done. well, maybe that's what's coming anyway. maybe it'll be quite good for the west to go through the process of cause losses and to try and regenerate itself in a new way. in this new year. it will be not easy, not fun. but nonetheless, i think the west is so much in the, in the state of the klein and terry issue that we do need some form of cassettes. it's something to call to of which some green shoes possibly come a much talusick work. i'll stop you. the more from the former advisor,

a middle east issues to e foreign policy chief, have a savannah after this break, the on the, on the see the silver. so the move up to somebody how can it be that um the ship to the middle east from a country whose top officials constantly complain about shortages of munitions and military equipments destroyed and opening the booth but of boston located in the new system and below came along the nominal facility or some of those other slash we, i'm about to the easiest you to not know. so what are we and we'll have an easy somebody

remember bubble sold? well, nice to have to kind of get used to have gone on. now, why are weapons from ukraine spreading over the world? to turn this country into a major arms hub, will continue to bolster ukraine's and forces by rushing them occasionally use that they need to defend their country. the everyone knows very well that we don't sell but known as find apples or any kind of children's toys. we sell women's. yes, we're also known in the world as homes dealers, that we must not be ashamed of that the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with that was to grow. well, the british diplomatic founder and current director of the baby bass conflicts for him a how so you were i don't know whether you are china ingram. she that because you're in the, it's really about the new is yet to be born and the, the end part one. since i'm speaking to you from the middle east though,

and really it's being watch the death of the old, the very close to be here. the response from saudi arabia in the u. a has to be nuanced, clearly given rep, rush them over there on in syria. and what happened before you have and now has the right to self defense under the un job to clearly wears these roads has no right of self defense. of course human has the right of self defense. israel doesn't, uh well, what's the likelihood of the us trying to use the united i remembered savvy arabia guitar you basis to launch then next to british an american ask strikes one young. and i think it's highly unlikely because i don't think that any of those states really are looking for a resumption as a conflict with some unsolved and am a recall the table sofa table being recipients. miss all attacks from

yemen as various times when they've crossed the red line, as far as the m. a nice concerns. so i think as i say, you know, the understanding of the resistance access is that it is not to cause a big more. it's not to destroy people's economy, it is a slow issue like squeezing of the israel and the united states to the point at which they have to stall in gaza. and it's also about changing the power to breaking the whole power down. but just to underline that, i know that a ron, for example, which is a sort of principle in the resistance texas and sits in the sort of the, the control room for the c operation of itself center for it. i mean, this was consulting and reassuring side here, right. and making sure it's not in intro, it is not in the runs interest,

it's not in saudi arabia's interest to have its own energy infrastructure destroyed . neither of them. and so i don't think there's really any likelihood that that's going to happen, but it's communication then bought to how a gas to must badging be looking at the destruction of world trade routes, which are going to be worse than to buy these british and american aztecs not of somehow things are going to be best for the chinese economy because of this and of course, for exports from the persian gulf and gcc as well. so what you're saying there is communication, but that kind of powerless to stop written in the united states, lessening this crisis escalated. i don't think, i mean china of course is watching. i mean, i think, you know, they have a long term vision and so they can see that what's going to come out of this is a new global holder. and it's going to be global order and which china and russia

are going to have a big se. so i don't think that that responsible to box it. but the other thing is that there are new trade roads opening. the optic root is opening. there are other routes, trade routes, dropping the north side of the card or is opening up. there are a lot of things that are open make that were intended. oh, as from the beginning to sort of less of the couple a little bit from the suicide canal, i'm from the show, the points which the west fits all. so i don't think no, i think they understand what's going on perfectly well. i mean, they'll be some people who have some real exposure as far as i understand, you know, if it's chinese vessels who are not landing in israel, or if it's fresh and vessels that buzzing through the red sea on hand. i mean, clearly scandinavian members of nato in the wake of the ukraine, that was part of the american response to it. and so those optic roots then,

but then what about mahmoud abbas, who sits there in jerusalem? we've seen this arithmetic situation in the west bank and in jerusalem is american protection of a bus all. it is really stopping the why is us not being killed? i don't are you to know? so i can say is, i think it's of westbank is on the brink of explosion, which could have and so really on his knife edge, the tension there is huge and i don't know. and is it american protection? i don't know. i imagine it just, i imagine is protected because he's not useful for the americans and for the west. but i mean, he is completely ignored and dislike by 90 percent of the palestinians. so i mean, he's the relevant, it's not really important. i mean, whether he sits in the mikado, not, i mean, it's not something worthy to waste much time on. and as for the censorship in

western europe and to american populations, maybe there's less then since you back from united states, because it seems to me that the demonstrations a bigger there for about a student solid energy than there are in the west. and your job will us have the whole session on information wolf or is it and they beginning to fail the big silicon valley of censorship, organizations, high tech censorship organizations. and they, as the palestine managed to break through the sense you, i'm not entirely, i mean, you know, sitting here and in europe in western europe. i mean the, the, the 1st day of the culture of justice and the hey, was not covered by western media main street media. i mean b, b, c. so sky, they ignored it and concentrated only on it and returned to own me. on the 2nd day when israel was presenting its defense, so it is still very much everything is locked on. you are not allowed to refer to

the south african pace that they mounted very coach into the i might say from the, particularly from the the, the irish lawyer. she was fantastic. and she argued on live on legal tops, which was really important and not just diverse, it into sort of solely emotional feelings. yeah. but thinking state department, when they were asked, i mean they didn't deny it about being worried that they could be done for co conspirators. what happens then? i mean, i mean, i suppose the generically just as is shown in such posh ality in previous years of its existence. can you really can we foresee blinking bus me being held liable along with joe biden for aging genocide? and can we see countries like britain and astray,

leah being told that they failed in their obligations to prevent genocide. i think you know that i think there are 2 aspects here. i mean quite clearly. so, you know, we've had problems with what is a criminal act in terms of the rules of war vices for me, of cause and apparently western states, if you like, come involved in that and we have the same with the genocide case. now i think so as i understand it, they, it's so majority both when it comes but it might be some time to comes from. so it could be a 7 goal, something like that or not. and i don't think we're going to see america in the adult somehow. they still have a privilege and exception this position,

even though they're not positive. i mean, you are advisor to the foreign policy of your equipment, and i mean, you'd be advising joseph burrell and i don't know whether you'd be thinking, preparing to, you know, be done for trend is, i guess you'd be advising that you form policy to once a situation i, i will be saying that the, the european position on what is happening in gaza is atrocious and is entirely wrong. and they need to understand they can simply stand by that position that we stand with israel and read every single face context as if you know, the, the incident, what happened only has happened on the 7th of october and there was no before and no wide uh, context of this, this was just something that, you know, that was done by a small group. and the time they attribute it like this is the same thing. they do . and ukraine, you know, russia suddenly illegally to heart,

decided to invade you quite as if there was no history as this noise in the background. there was no 2014, there was no, my movement include a taught, i mean, this is, this is how they do politics. it and that has consequences because the consequences that they don't see a big time to hear what the rest of the world is saying to them. because they say no, no, this is an art. this is mark up. we in system, this is a narrative. no, there's no question. there's no other, there's no other any of these exercises. this is america. but when you do that you can't hear you, you, you lost the ability to, to emphasize or listen to what other people are saying. they come even listen to what the russian say anymore. no, no, no. we don't. you was like, we don't pay any attention to what you said. i should say that i, i fall optics. luckily i started by saying, well john list were killed in gaza. so farther than the whole of world war 2

gonzalo lira, the us gen list, the state department appears not to have helped us to, i'm less money advisor lensky is a torturer, is a. so is a p as rooms a, because i don't, there is parents is indicative of uh, how little the united states protects us. citizens if they go against the narrative and dangerous for us nationals around the world. if they do not agree with us, you know, i mean, of course, for gonzalez, it was lee. so, but for i think all generous and indeed all people who comment and say things truthfully, with any integrity, are at risk. yes. i mean, here and in europe, i mean, you know, you can be cancelled. you couldn't be penalized in many ways. or the most obvious

one is that you'll just me a, with somebody negation usually and navigation bits of a sexual nature. in order to damage your reputation for good. so i mean, this is an in fact um, the whole of the, of the main topic, the paper that they sent out was how dangerous it takes. and we must do more to stop this information. i mean it's mentioned the time and time again about how i what the main focus must be. how do we 40 percent of that was the population are going to election this year and only 10 percent chance of them getting it right. and therefore, we must, all this information mile information from taking root. well, i think that's all name of the style. many, many will be hoping that uh, yeah, judy is on his case. uh the comes in february is more important than those people that double is just finally then. so the way of talking, i mean, by the end of 2024,

then complete defeats violent from nato and ukraine. nicholas tail made still in british media. right. then that's already happened and it's happened. i mean, maybe incomplete, the defeated now, but what about china? they gonna desperately start going into the slab, trying to see what they're going to be too frightened to move. concentrating on the us elections as a, he's up, you know, china is in a different position from russia because china is a big trading country. and, you know, it's led to some lessons. i mean, i was in russia recently and you know, there are no channels of communication with russia. i was told that the vice level that, you know, there's nothing they treat us like the enemy rates near excess. and i think china looks at this, and it has no illusions about you, not with united states, and whether you know, english and support the united states and china. but the same time, they don't want to get into that position where you know, all the channels of communication. i'll talk because they are

a big trading nation and they've got different interest rusher understands that china are on the stand side, but they still work very closely together. how's it? good. thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by the u. k. u. s. back slaughter and guys, and we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch my role. i social media. if it's all tense and in your country and add to our channel going on, the run tv on normal, don't come to what's new and old episodes of going underground. c sassik the

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