do months in west africa lava and i do that has copy too late that one would see, i'm doubtful. we need to do plenty over to our walk in our farm relations with these countries. even if they don't come back to you, of course, we need to do much more. i'm intend bilateral relationship with some of them is going to offset thread negatively. but much more than that, it is a social, this orientation that has taken place. that shouldn't be something we should worry much more about. now if we get divided, it becomes easier for this the hardest to come in and do whatever they would want to do on that for the security implication 5 might be much more for now. judy, add them any other thing you can think about today to come to the restaurant, but the devastation of terrorism within the subdivision, i think, is much more of a concept auto task to digesting. next,

the i c j's recent ruling on these real, on whether the verdict of the world's top courts will bring any ease for a gas. ha, it's cost. all right, i had the hello and welcome to the prospect bullhorn sign people about here we discuss them. we'll news for all intents and purposes, israel has been indicted on the charge of genocide by the world's highest court. is this a game changer as israel last? it's long held impunity also, the establishment lothair campaign against donald trump continues. will americas democracy be destroyed in the process? and i'm joined by my usual guess george samuel way in budapest, he's a pod cast or at the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals in america.

yes, we have martin jay. he is an award winning journalist or gentleman cross type roles in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. all right, let's take it off of georgia in budapest. we've had a few days to digest the court's decision to bring genocide charges against israel, sponsored by south africa. there's been a lot of talk about the significance of it, particularly since a ceasefire was an actually called for. however, given the 6 stipulations, it's all it is essentially is a call for a ceasefire. and since we've had a few days to digest, that nothing has really changed in terms of israel's behavior and gaza. george, your initial thoughts? well, i think glad there's online. there's a source that's been hold of no change and is well, what was striking was that within hours of the issue is of these provisional measures. israel announced over the u. n. w, a person. now, if had been involved in the october the 7th attacked,

the united states immediately echoed this is a yes, yes, yes, they have brothers has business shopping for roofing and said we're not funding in the you and all the blue a any more. and now a number of other countries, the usual suspects, the u. k, australia, canada, the water stairwell, with a widow funding and it's the subject has been changed. and that was the thing, you know, where, where it was, what was an interesting question? what was his role going to do to change the subject? well, this was, this was it. and if you look at the, uh, you know, of the media now, never the talking about the, this uh, this will recognize, are you an agency involved in an old attack? this is what the terrible of the western media coverage has also been minimal given that this is a hit historic rolling, i mean video met and many people saw that the world corporate just give it a pass and, but this is quite serious. and the majority is, was so overwhelming with is really judge width and is there any letter and he's

ready to judge a vote for some of the provisional measures. so you'll have to say that this with, this is a historic rolling, a very damaging to israel. and so it shows that it's a public reputation. and israel it is of allies have done exactly what you would expect. they've changed the subject. well, you know, martin the, the, the claims against the under uh, officials, employees collaborating with a mazda and jenny on october 7th. the, these are a ledge from entered interviews slash pop, possibly torture of spiders, or people that have left the gaza on that day. so that's that follow up as a very, um, isn't often mentioned if at all where they got this information from. this is very much in line with the eye witnesses of systematic rape. so we need to learn more

about it. but george is absolutely right, insult to injury. now we're just going to cut all of the funding here. this adds to the intentionality of what these proceedings are all about. you know the intention to commit genocide and then you cut off the aid here. so another city is a significant thing for me is that the name of the court decided that it has jurisdiction, which is extremely important in this case here. martin, your thoughts unless they were disappointed in the case i, i said of their own, i thought it would be on foot and is a deal breaker. so you can say it is a new break on many levels. it will have impact and around the world on how we live it conflicts and how we judge even america, whether we believe that an international criminal court in itself. so let me specifically talk about his role. i'm not sure it will be a deal breaker. no. so it will that will be a huge amount of impact. i mean the would genocide was specific, do not use in the judgement unless the american will seize on that some. i think we

can expect a veto. united nations security council has indicated coming days and you know, well that will be on the stands in the line to direct media away from this case to try and diffuse a try and put it far away as possible. you know, many media i was suppose to be more than to than and then israel will be saying, you know, we need the, it'll take time. but this will pause. but i'm also willing, in terms of israel's reputation around the world. and we talk about amazing trade, you know, how is this, we're going to actually continue trading with countries within as this hanging over it. um to other countries now take the initiative of using this as bases for more legal cases, independently island, perhaps on the right bill that talked about this in the past. you know, countries like person who have supplied these right is, was a ministry could oh, we now implicit in this, you know, there's a lot of questions thing. so i'm a big martin. i think that's the key here and go back to george here. the complicity, i think i think that all of us agree that is we obviously israel's is going to

ignore this and you know south africa is l. a. moss as lawyer and yourself have, cuz i entice them at the usual smears that doesn't impress anybody any more. but you know, the u. k. the united states, you know, aiding and abetting, openly, eating a bathing in which is at least at the very least indirectly counter and what the court has demanded of israel. so, you know, the, the, the stench of genocide is, goes far afield and the united states is going to feel that and it's turning into domestic issue as well. i think it is a very big deal. i think it's a game changer. many, many ways the country in the 21st century that is being charged by the highest court in the world of genocide is israel. that in itself is a game changer. george. i agree. i think that that part of it is a game changer because the genocide convention came in to be precise in response to

what was done to the jews in world war 2. and then for the israel, then to be from, as i said, not my guilty of genocide, but nonetheless, i mean, it was, there was enough that which is what the judge just said. there is enough that going on and off what, what a strength of a south africa has said that just to persuade us that israel needs to cease and desist from genocide all acts. a more, more serious. that is really officials who make remarks that can be seen to be a, you know, an incendiary and triggering a genocide must be held to account. they must be punished so that those are indeed big deals. and what, you know, you will, you already have the, by the ministration. so that is, so can place it in the, in israel is actions that it's, is paying the price. i mean that you did it just, it just can't get out of it. and the polls suggest that among young

people of the there's a majority who believes that is what it is committing, genocide and the, the by the ministration is it is, is helping israel to do this. and this is quite ex, ex shorter that these are vital supports as a sort of, at the very minimum biden is going to pay a price, you know, no doubt. so, i mean, we'll talk about this way to buy new things over. we'll change the electronics, will it be? it'll be about trump. i don't show that's going to work. because i bought this this as well for truly, you know, going to go just a bit. uh, turn around. is that what, what, what we wanna talk about that? let's just talk about truck. so i think it's, it is going to have at the very minimum, a major impact in the united states and all the more so george, that it's so many more things can happen between now and then. and it looks very more and more likely that the conflict is, looks, it will expand into, into 11 on against, has bought it, looking that way that martin was pressing into about that

a few weeks ago. but looking at the region, martin, it's very interesting. it's in a way when you look at the chords provisional rulings and m, and it is being justified in its actions because it is a signature of the, of the genocide convention. and it is doing everything and its power to stop it. and that's, you know, that's what human is doing. it's taking the lead in many ways. i know that western mean they're just terrace all this. again. i don't think the sticks anymore. i don't think people want are going along with it, particularly when you can watch things in real time. so there's a lot, a lot of moving pieces here, but there's much, there's, um, uh, these provisional decisions here. the impact is going to with the shape all over the place martin? yeah. and you can say, what was the media trying to do is to attempt to reduce the impacts, you know, as, as best they can the reference to, to an are always interesting. um i worked with and was quite a bit in level of independence,

didn't investigate comes and they like to have the implicit, somehow in this hotel, this is preposterous abstract, preposterous. you know, i mean there's a link so they to the age range where these might have found, you know, is, is probably very, very tenuous. rodriguez. but the timing of it is interesting, isn't that, you know, i'm the, i'm sorry, am i, can you do you think we're ever going to be presented with facts? i mean, school brands like facts, it meets the record interview relates to the know the claim is a, that's a, that is necessary. that's all this necessary. and all you have to do is look at the bbc coverage, you know, shamefully. they have an 8 minute report on this only. well, advocation, let me run a couple of minutes on the, on the, on the, i should a ruling. so that gives you that gives you the, you know, i mean there's a lot of to, and crime from people in the chat about the, an on social meet us. that gives you an idea also, you know, where we're going with this. but again, you know, it's interesting the, the, the impact on social media is extraordinary, and social media is laser. this is what it means to be around the world. uh,

really turning in and being thrown off about this and actually seeing the site insights for what they all um, but i, i have a feeling that some, you know, this is, this is we're gonna see a little more of this and as well as digging itself deep uh, deep uh, deep into a hole that i've set at the beginning of the, of the conflicts from october, the 7th i've written when this is over, i don't think so israel that we know today will exist. i think a new as well. we'll have to much of well, that's an interesting thought martin, because george how israel will change it's. it's a, it's, it's open right now because there's so many possibilities of this conflict the way it will move in one direction or another. but it will be held the relationship to the united states as with israel and how the world sees that relationship, i think that's really key. george, it is key. and the problem is that thing israel is going to have

is that it will not succeed in this enterprise. the whole end was which is to destroy thomas. so therefore, this risk that killing this total destruction this, you know, which again, you know, it's in the i, c, j rolling they, they missed all the terrible things that have been done. they will be from the, not a cheese anything. and then it's hard to see how we can just sort of pretend the, what mr. i get a fine, well, we'll just move on. go, go onto the next, the negotiation or, you know, well, we, in a fine, we'll have one a, b, b anymore. we'll have somebody else, and then you know, we'll, we'll have a next piece, black and then the next, the, that, the, that the, i think the george you, right, that's going to be the next version that it, when you get rid of b, b, then and read it it's, it's a game changer, you know? no, it won't be, he'll be whatsoever. okay. it'll be just ways to distract from what we have been

watching the play out on the ground. 10 seconds martin before we go to the break. i have to disagree. i think is be, be goes the thing though it generates a whole new debates, both in, within the as well and around the world as to what the steps israel could take before accepting the american plan off having a 2 state solution which is governed by i don't see anybody and it is rarely leadership willing to accept that already gentlemen. and gotta jump in here, we gotta go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on. so we'll need to stay with our to the of the

the 1st time in history. meantime country's culture has been cancelled that remote in west council culture. they need to ask the associated milestone little folks here, just me sitting on a because the phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture. and yet the worst it creates a few of those to that i get 20 miles folks to push roll renewal. that is chill out of it. so of that the most of the, some rich, the one of them eat the moist blood rushes created the pos 1500 years. there's no question actually condemned, reviled and reject it to sit alone and use that to put somebody at the middle of the panel. there's a lot, i don't know because i don't know,

she does have access to the little some of the list. joining total comes them, nation grows daily and now includes the us dance gate to cost gate shostakovich. get the i need to. yeah. to left, but yeah, sheet of those things that will be on the w 2 up. i'm gonna need you to see who the welcome back to across the bullhorn john peter live, else remind you were discussing some real news. okay, george, i want to go to you kind of a variation on a theme or way we talked about with the, the, the genocide case against israel and establishment. and the establishment in the united states is

a really rubbing up the bi engineer to the rail. donald trump's um presidential bid, but to law say or not through the ballot box, it's all it is. it's lost there. and we have this defamation case became too absurd on the face of it. i don't want to go into the details. i don't want to waste our time on it, but you know, a punitive, a cost that is going to be made to make making from pay a bit, what's an $80.00 to a $1000000.00 or something like that or okay. i mean, and you know, we went through this before, but this is just the beginning that this is the 1st domino to go dark. it is the matter because as we were discussing in the, in the 1st of the, the vitamin, the restriction is a historic lows. i mean it's, it's, it's, or is poll numbers that just make it up through the flow is it's perfect. and clearly it only has one strategy, which is what,

let's make the selection of about donald trump. preferably if we can just simply get rid of the middle 111 way or another. we can just take him off of the about. but what just what i mean present, let's even even bets up 10. so this was the oh and, and plus we have, nick, they have nikki haley in the, in the wings. right, exactly. i think you have the wings. so now you have this up simply upset, upset, upset this issue of this, you know, this, all this, the mentally deranged woman making up stories. she didn't, and somebody has something or other happened. so 2 years ago, she doesn't know when that happens. she didn't report it up a time or anything else. and now i think, you know me will be next week, but suddenly in, in the coming days, uh, new york state will deem that uh, the trump organization created a commit to fraud and will hit him with something like a $400000000.00 fine. again, with, with the goal of bankrupting is that he doesn't have any,

any cash at all. and then of course we have all of the criminal cases go from lowest of full criminal cases. that's a little being brought up. this is really a, quite a, quite extraordinary heavies it's, it's never happened in any of a democratic state that you were you bringing in full list against the one person to take it with us. it was the leading political opponent. and that is, is it just a reflection of just how desperate with the situation of the political establishment is the best formula? well, let's just simply call trump a fascist, and the races will be done with that and will win the election. they know that isn't gonna work. so if you really have to go into some rock stuff now, the rest of the yeah, i mean, and i think everything is on the table. i think everybody knows what i mean to. but, but martin and this is the most fundamentally anti democratic approach you could ever imagine. okay, they are they, in the name of democracy,

there's some burning democracy. i think there should be a trial. i think there should be a jerry, it's called the american people and the ballot. that's where you have the trial in public with paper ballots. hopefully go ahead. mark, with the problem with the polls are indicating the which is that less fewer and fewer americans now have confidence in the whole system into the actual build the formula in the recent post as much as 18 percent of the verses wouldn't bother sending up to vote sim, neither can, might be too worried about that, but them for the bite and attempt to put all the rigs and my boss. and apparently, you know, all jubilance the trump is not going to be the candidates. i find that old. but for them to do that, i think that puts them all losing strategy because this form and the judge mentioned, you know, it's how do you summon up it's we go to the pose and we don't fight for our tons that we vote for a process flow to else the other concepts, you know,

and it started to be arguably within a re, a trump. and that wasn't the turning point in the american public for me. but now we continue the same same. and a lot of people who look in effect for trump this time, i think will be swing voters who, what type of of bond and who, who may have traditionally voted in the democratic comes in as a number of key states. what button is going to lose because he lost the jewish load. he's lost the, the losing both. he's lost a young person sides. and now he thinks the way to do this is to put everything into a blank for it. so it's going to the black 1st, you know, and you started off in south carolina where all completed which installed and the 1st time around. the only talk about getting gnostic. you know, um, on the trump side, he's got so much more a now to throw a bunch of data against hillary clinton and there's a whole list of things which we haven't got time to go to. but let's just go to the top one, the economy. you know, the applied biden, the no, no makes, i can't even say it. and i told me how to,

what is that what it means is on paper we may be doing quite well with the economy our lead to doing well, and it will lead to yes, it depends on who yes. exam. friends of the country club of buying themselves new jack. so you know, a new list yet, but that hasn't trickled down the trickle down effect and his great economy hasn't worked on many, many americans humbled americans who don't understand too much about economics and politics. they decide about economics by gas pump prices and what they pay, the supermarket and biden's record on both of those is really bad. so he's got a real problems that, you know. but again, trump, every time we come on a show here, and we talk about some cases every single time without fail as popularity rises each time. and it's interesting, but now a, if you notice what his speech is, he is more and more referring now to the legal system to get through district system in america. unless think that complaint, the more he gets hits,

the more he takes to the podium and talks about how bad the legal system is and how much need there was in america for reform of the district. i think that resonates more and more more of what i think those resonate. george is that if they can do this, the donald trump, i think this is the subliminal message that people get if they can do it to him. you know, with loss there. they can do it to anyone. i mean don't trump has deep pockets. ok . very key pockets compared to the average person obviously. and, and i think this is what we so disturbing is a, you know, it's not even if you like trump or not, because i don't think that's part of the equation for the vast majority people we know who he is. that's what's most important. we know who he is. ok. he wasn't dictator in office. he didn't do the things they did. they claim that he will do the returns. but this, this is these look, all 3 of us are basically intelligent people. but i'm, i look at these cases. george, i scratched my head. i don't understand how they,

what they're getting at. and i think that is, that's what with people, that's what people are taking on. this is just the con. i mean, this doesn't make any sense until it's got a judge sort of said money. it's about money. yeah, no, that's the. that's right. and then when you think about this, if you go back to, let's say, america 1984 in 1984 americans have a faith in this system that they thought they, well, here we go to the f b i, we have a c, i a sent it off, they're all basically doing a good job. you know, they're all doing whatever they can in order to make america a stronger, that's a, a most successful. now, people don't believe that most seriously. the people don't believe that the ones who used to be supporters of the of america, the american way of life, american government, the people who is losing as quickly voted for reagan in 1984. now, believe that the system is reg, they believe that they prosecute the political opponents. that is a very dangerous situation to be in. and that's why i think trump is getting this

residency spots attacking the state. you know that they persecuting me. these are political hacks. well, coming off the band, they want to send me to prison and people say, yeah, that's, that's it, that's who, that's who the f, b i is. and the problem left a bite lives at that. so that's the core support the black. so who we, we can get 90 to 95 percent of the black loads and you know, give hispanics and we'll get 75 percent of them. and that's uh, formula we, we will be re elected that isn't gonna work because trump is eating into that black robe because of the many blacks a. yeah, that's what we've been saying all these years. yeah. but what specifically, what's right, what's, what's really interesting it, and i'm glad you go back to 1984 georgia mains, a good benchmark. i mean, back in 1984, the republicans where the party of the rich, the democrats with the party of the port that's but that's very simplistic, but i think it holds water. been martin,

the republican party. it represents the poor, the powerless, and the, and that's the, the, that's the attraction. the trump pass for them is that they have no power. and he has a lot of power and seeing if we can see what they're doing to him. we see an inversion here. and, and it's not about race, it's about class at the end of the day, martin, but a nice movie folder. america has a significant amount of cloud around the world, particularly in the middle east. and you know, to make the comparison today what i think though, to, as a beginning to recognize more and more but stupid comment the board made just before it was elected about saudi arabia being a prostate, held by is really a bunch of them on the else now, because you know, what's the difference for next 80 for a now is the middle is particularly countries like saudi arabia and russia together now control international dust pump prices. and that's really going to hurt blind to invest. really going to hit him very hard because, you know, it is that people will use that as a benchmark, but coming about to jump to,

i mean, we do know who trump is. you know, we, we, he's pretty, is pretty on a massive. i mean, he's really in your face, you know, you know how he operates much, but i think a lot of people in america, a angry at this system and it's beginning to generate debates and took all levels about the system itself. and i think people may, well, if we, if we do the same same phone there again, people may well start lobbying and writing and chatting on social media about it's time. but america had pops something like, so you're paying proportional representation model. because this, this to, to, to dispose of was model, which i don't, i don't know, i don't know. mark them far more pessimistic george. i mean, if, if it ever got down to that kind of debate, then the elite, so they say we don't need a lesson study. how do you say that? that's where they will go, they'll, they'll, they'll say, you know, it's because of the, the, the drum bins and the in the market. they destroyed democracy. so we'll just, uh,

uh, coordinate him, a hillary clinton is queen. note that there's more likely going that way. then changing the system that would actually enfranchised people. 30 seconds george? no, i don't think that's right. because um, you know, they're both sorts of things may happen in the, in the next 910 months. maybe even to prevent them election from taking place. you know, the stream service on possible despite the possible, know, i'm really when you think of what is bible rated care of us by cares about all of these wars and all of these interventions. that's what needs to be in a box throughout his career. he doesn't care much about domestic policy, but when he comes to ukraine, this route, that's what he cares most massively about. i think the public sense is it, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't care about policy that he keeps the border open, you know, you know, and, you know, george, he gets his own, his own war is uniquely own more. yeah, man. okay, so he'll go down in the history books, cried gentleman, that's all the time we i'm going to take my guess, americans and in budapest, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time.

remember last night girls the the,

the around rejects emery can accusations of its involvement in drones strikes that killed free us troops. latree i post on the serious border with jordan, president bible's presence to respond to speaking exclusively to archie pocket. sounds on foster too. i run the details they, we can think of relations after a recent order. the most important thing is 4 bucks on it, on to defend the titled categories of on their strategic patricia chapters. of course, they have to go into a job done, and they are most important and we did at the edge of dice to tv. and those ties listed in slum suspension of funding by nearly a dozen in western countries to the un relief of workspace is really named some of

the organizations.